Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[rich sbardella]

In the local MWSD scene, each caller gets one dance per amateur evening.  A 
small percentage of those amateurs ever make it to a full calling engagement 
without starting their own caller run group/club.  This arrangement actually 
keeps clubs from hiring callers who are not ready, but allows those callers 
with skills to develop.  
Dancers in the MWSD community are very gracious to these new callers no matter 
what the skill level.
I am not sure how many clubs still offer these nights, but they are a fun 
experience that serves a greater good to the whole community.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
 


 From: Lindsay Morris <lind...@tsmworks.com>
To: Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question
  

Twice I have seen groups encourage new callers, then put them on the local 
dance schedule. It was bad. The new callers only got a chance to call once 
every 2-3 months. They never improved. The community was saddled with several 
less-than-stellar callers for 2 years.

Just something to consider.

--
Lindsay Morris
859-539-9900

On Oct 1, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Aahz Maruch <a...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 01, 2013, rich sbardella wrote:
>> 
>> Several MWSD clubs host an "Amateur Callers Night".  That is how I
>> got started.  I local contra dances did the same, new callers would
>> have opportunities to get stated and to gain exposure.  It would be a
>> great service to both the calling and dancing communities.  Although
>> some dancers may skip that night, aspiring callers would may up with
>> partners/friends and pay admission.
> 
> There are definitely equivalents in the contra community, I called two
> days ago (Sunday) in Hayward for the "community dance", which also
> featured a community band (and it's how I got started a year ago, at the
> SF dance).  But it's really not clear how to make the jump to calling
> more in contra (and despite being on this list since January, I haven't
> learned much about that).
> 
> By contrast, probably largely due to Callerlab, the MWSD community seems
> more oriented to bringing new callers on board.  It's also quite likely
> that I'm missing something in the contra community due to my hearing, but
> lots of people suck at informal information gathering even with good
> hearing, and if the contra community wants more diversity in callers,
> we'll have to figure out ways to introduce more formality to bringing in
> new callers.
> -- 
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                        http://rule6.info/
>                      <*>           <*>           <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
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> Callers mailing list
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> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
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Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Lindsay Morris]

Twice I have seen groups encourage new callers, then put them on the local 
dance schedule. It was bad. The new callers only got a chance to call once 
every 2-3 months. They never improved. The community was saddled with several 
less-than-stellar callers for 2 years.

Just something to consider.

--
Lindsay Morris
859-539-9900

On Oct 1, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Aahz Maruch  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 01, 2013, rich sbardella wrote:
>> 
>> Several MWSD clubs host an "Amateur Callers Night".  That is how I
>> got started.  I local contra dances did the same, new callers would
>> have opportunities to get stated and to gain exposure.  It would be a
>> great service to both the calling and dancing communities.  Although
>> some dancers may skip that night, aspiring callers would may up with
>> partners/friends and pay admission.
> 
> There are definitely equivalents in the contra community, I called two
> days ago (Sunday) in Hayward for the "community dance", which also
> featured a community band (and it's how I got started a year ago, at the
> SF dance).  But it's really not clear how to make the jump to calling
> more in contra (and despite being on this list since January, I haven't
> learned much about that).
> 
> By contrast, probably largely due to Callerlab, the MWSD community seems
> more oriented to bringing new callers on board.  It's also quite likely
> that I'm missing something in the contra community due to my hearing, but
> lots of people suck at informal information gathering even with good
> hearing, and if the contra community wants more diversity in callers,
> we'll have to figure out ways to introduce more formality to bringing in
> new callers.
> -- 
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
>  <*>   <*>   <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Aahz Maruch]

On Tue, Oct 01, 2013, rich sbardella wrote:
>
> Several MWSD clubs host an "Amateur Callers Night".  That is how I
> got started.  I local contra dances did the same, new callers would
> have opportunities to get stated and to gain exposure.  It would be a
> great service to both the calling and dancing communities.  Although
> some dancers may skip that night, aspiring callers would may up with
> partners/friends and pay admission.

There are definitely equivalents in the contra community, I called two
days ago (Sunday) in Hayward for the "community dance", which also
featured a community band (and it's how I got started a year ago, at the
SF dance).  But it's really not clear how to make the jump to calling
more in contra (and despite being on this list since January, I haven't
learned much about that).

By contrast, probably largely due to Callerlab, the MWSD community seems
more oriented to bringing new callers on board.  It's also quite likely
that I'm missing something in the contra community due to my hearing, but
lots of people suck at informal information gathering even with good
hearing, and if the contra community wants more diversity in callers,
we'll have to figure out ways to introduce more formality to bringing in
new callers.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[rich sbardella]

Several MWSD clubs host an "Amateur Callers Night".  That is how I got started. 
 I local contra dances did the same, new callers would have opportunities to 
get stated and to gain exposure.  It would be a great service to both the 
calling and dancing communities.
Although some dancers may skip that night,  aspiring callers would may up with 
partners/friends and pay admission.  
Rich Sbardella
With lots of appreciation to Lori Morin/Ruffles and Beaus for that first 
Amateurs Night 20+ years ago!
 


 From: Aahz Maruch <a...@pobox.com>
To: call...@sharedweight.net 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question
  

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013, Colin Hume wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 07:42:41 -0700, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>>
>> My question was poorly phrased.  What I meant was, given the long
>> lead time for scheduling callers, how do you keep from discouraging
>> new callers?  I sure would be discouraged if I knew that I could
>> only start getting gigs more than a year away.
> 
> I imagine a lot of callers are happier to start the way I've 
> described, gradually building up confidence.  Would you expect to do a 
> Saturday evening dance in your first year of calling?

"Expect"?  Definitely not, but for a variety of reasons, it's something
I certainly could have done if that had been my focus.  ;-)  (Too late
now, since I started calling eleven months ago.)

I think, though, based on other comments in this thread, that you are
referring to something different for "gig" than I thought you meant; I
was referring to any scheduled calling, whereas you were referring to
larger-than-local events.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                        http://rule6.info/
                      <*>           <*>           <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
___
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http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Aahz Maruch]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013, Colin Hume wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 07:42:41 -0700, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>>
>> My question was poorly phrased.  What I meant was, given the long
>> lead time for scheduling callers, how do you keep from discouraging
>> new callers?  I sure would be discouraged if I knew that I could
>> only start getting gigs more than a year away.
> 
> I imagine a lot of callers are happier to start the way I've 
> described, gradually building up confidence.  Would you expect to do a 
> Saturday evening dance in your first year of calling?

"Expect"?  Definitely not, but for a variety of reasons, it's something
I certainly could have done if that had been my focus.  ;-)  (Too late
now, since I started calling eleven months ago.)

I think, though, based on other comments in this thread, that you are
referring to something different for "gig" than I thought you meant; I
was referring to any scheduled calling, whereas you were referring to
larger-than-local events.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Jeff Kaufman]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Greg McKenzie  wrote:
>
>> The final step is to be booked at festivals, usually a weekend or a whole
>> week.
>>
>
> This is how most people see it in the USA contra dance scene as well.  I'm
> not sure why.  I have seen many of our "top bill" callers struggling at one
> of our local dances--where a healthy percentage of those in the hall are
> bright and eager first-time contra dancers.  Yet, someone who has proven
> themselves to be an excellent caller at open, public contra dances is often
> more than ready to call a dance weekend.
>

I think you're broadly right: the dances that require a lot of skill
to call for are low status, the ones that require less skill are
higher status.  But there are also some skills you need in order to be
an excellent weekend/festival caller that won't get much practice
calling at dances with lower experience levels.

Jeff

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Greg McKenzie]

Colin wrote:

> The final step is to be booked at festivals, usually a weekend or a whole
> week.
>

This is how most people see it in the USA contra dance scene as well.  I'm
not sure why.  I have seen many of our "top bill" callers struggling at one
of our local dances--where a healthy percentage of those in the hall are
bright and eager first-time contra dancers.  Yet, someone who has proven
themselves to be an excellent caller at open, public contra dances is often
more than ready to call a dance weekend.

I would urge new callers to attend these special events and try to get a
calling "slot" in the main dance hall.  You will have a room full of
regular contra dancers who will be able to make your dances work...even if
your calling is lacking in some way.  At an open, public contra dance you
could be facing a much tougher challenge.  Calling at an event targeting
long-time dancers is a very easy gig.  It seems like the best place for new
callers to develop calling skills.

Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA

*


On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Colin Hume  wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 07:39:24 -0700, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013, Colin Hume wrote:
> >> Groups in England book bands and callers much further ahead. I
> >> have  12 bookings for 2014 (it would often be more by this time
> >> of the year)  and 3 for 2015.
> >
> > How do y'all bring in new talent?
>
> The grass-roots organisations are the Dance Clubs, which usually meet
> once a week.  Often they will encourage budding callers to call an
> evening, or part of an evening.  Once you get known you hope that
> other clubs in your area will book you for their club nights.  Then if
> things go well you start getting booked for Saturday night dances with
> a live band, which will spread your name further afield.  The final
> step is to be booked at festivals, usually a weekend or a whole week.
>
> http://www.colinhume.com/clubs.htm
>
> Colin Hume
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Jeff Kaufman]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, John Sweeney  wrote:
>
> How about starting up some more mid-week, weekly dances?

In the US there are weekly mid-week dances, but they're often big and
fill a role more similar to I think what a Saturday dance would be in
England.  For example, in Boston or Asheville the two weekly dances
are Monday and Thursday and they're the biggest dances.

By contrast, many Saturday dances, at least around Boston, are
once-a-month local gatherings with ~30 dancers.

Jeff

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[John Sweeney]

Grant said, "The weekly club dances are much less common in the US contra
dance scene."

Shame! We really miss our weekly dancing when we take vacations in the USA.
It is hard work scheduling so that you are in the right place at the right
weekend to get a dance.

How about starting up some more mid-week, weekly dances?  Especially in
places where it is warm in the winter :-)

Happy dancing,
John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[John Meechan]

A caller in England would normally start on the local public ONS dances for
churches, wedding, birthday etc or at the weekly folk dance club night where
perhaps several callers share the evening.

John Meechan

-Original Message-
From: callers-boun...@sharedweight.net
[mailto:callers-boun...@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Colin Hume
Sent: 30 September 2013 16:52
To: Caller's discussion list
Subject: Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:36:58 -0400, Jeff Kaufman wrote:
> Ideally I can wait and book more like three months out, which means
> there's much less lag between when someone becomes ready and when
> they can do the gig.

OK, I take your point.  I agree that there are many differences 
between calling in The States and calling in England!

Colin Hume


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Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Colin Hume]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:36:58 -0400, Jeff Kaufman wrote:
> Ideally I can wait and book more like three months out, which means
> there's much less lag between when someone becomes ready and when
> they can do the gig.

OK, I take your point.  I agree that there are many differences
between calling in The States and calling in England!

Colin Hume

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Grant Goodyear]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Colin Hume  wrote:

> I imagine a lot of callers are happier to start the way I've
> described, gradually building up confidence.  Would you expect to do a
> Saturday evening dance in your first year of calling?
>

In many places in the USA, the options for a caller are:

1. Calling for friends
2. One-night-stand dances
3. Local recurring dance series (often on Friday or Saturday night)
4. Dance festivals

The weekly club dances are much less common in the US contra dance scene,
although I believe that they're still the staple for modern western square
dancing.

Given that, the starting point for many new callers is the local big
recurring dance series, as part of a new-callers' night, or as a special
guest during some other caller's program, or simply on his or her own,
hopefully with a receptive and helpful (and forgiving!) dance community.

-Grant-


-- 
Grant Goodyear
web: http://www.grantgoodyear.org
e-mail: gr...@grantgoodyear.org

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Jeff Kaufman]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Colin Hume  wrote:
>
> I imagine a lot of callers are happier to start the way I've
> described, gradually building up confidence.  Would you
> expect to do a Saturday evening dance in your first year
> of calling?
>

As an organizer I think the problem is less that people want to go
from nothing to calling or playing full evenings, but that a long lead
time means you need to be really aware of who is going to be ready by
the time the date comes.  Imagine I'm booking for September 2014 right
now, and I'm considering a caller with eight months of experience.
I've heard them call, and they're really promising, but they're
definitely not ready to call a full evening for a large crowd now.  In
a year there's a good chance that they would be ready, but it's hard
to say without seeing how they change over time.  Ideally I can wait
and book more like three months out, which means there's much less lag
between when someone becomes ready and when they can do the gig.

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Colin Hume]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 07:42:41 -0700, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> My question was poorly phrased.  What I meant was, given the long
> lead time for scheduling callers, how do you keep from discouraging
> new callers?  I sure would be discouraged if I knew that I could
> only start getting gigs more than a year away.

I imagine a lot of callers are happier to start the way I've
described, gradually building up confidence.  Would you expect to do a
Saturday evening dance in your first year of calling?

Colin Hume

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013, Colin Hume wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 07:39:24 -0700, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013, Colin Hume wrote:
>>>
>>> Groups in England book bands and callers much further ahead. I
>>> have  12 bookings for 2014 (it would often be more by this time
>>> of the year)  and 3 for 2015.
>>
>> How do y'all bring in new talent?
> 
> The grass-roots organisations are the Dance Clubs, which usually meet 
> once a week.  Often they will encourage budding callers to call an 
> evening, or part of an evening.  Once you get known you hope that 
> other clubs in your area will book you for their club nights.  Then if 
> things go well you start getting booked for Saturday night dances with 
> a live band, which will spread your name further afield.  The final 
> step is to be booked at festivals, usually a weekend or a whole week.

My question was poorly phrased.  What I meant was, given the long lead
time for scheduling callers, how do you keep from discouraging new
callers?  I sure would be discouraged if I knew that I could only start
getting gigs more than a year away.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Colin Hume]

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 07:39:24 -0700, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013, Colin Hume wrote:
>> Groups in England book bands and callers much further ahead. I
>> have  12 bookings for 2014 (it would often be more by this time
>> of the year)  and 3 for 2015.
>
> How do y'all bring in new talent?

The grass-roots organisations are the Dance Clubs, which usually meet
once a week.  Often they will encourage budding callers to call an
evening, or part of an evening.  Once you get known you hope that
other clubs in your area will book you for their club nights.  Then if
things go well you start getting booked for Saturday night dances with
a live band, which will spread your name further afield.  The final
step is to be booked at festivals, usually a weekend or a whole week.

http://www.colinhume.com/clubs.htm

Colin Hume

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Eric Black]

Well, BACDS books some dances on short lead time, and some with
long lead time, but most kind-of quarterly.  There are good reasons
that apply in different situations.

I can amplify a bit on what Kalia and Jim have said about the San
Francisco BACDS dances (I booked and essentially ran the Saturday Palo
Alto contra from 1983 to 2009, and started the Wednesday Berkeley
contra in 1983).  And since 2010 I've been Manager of the BACDS
American Dance & Music Week ("AmWeek").

Here's more information than you probably want, but maybe everything
in here is useful to someone even if not all to everyone.

BACDS has 25-30 dances a month, counting both contra and English.  At
one time the "Bay Area" in the name BACDS ranged from Sonoma in the
north to Monterey in the south.  That was just plain ridiculous.  Now
there are 3 different CDSS affiliates covering that 3-hour-driving-time
region.  I say this to point out that BACDS, its dance events, and the
programmer/bookers have situations, problems, and blessings that can
be quite different from those experienced by a group that puts on one
contra dance series with dances once a week, or every 2 weeks, or
even once a month.  As is often said, YMMV.

Because our printed calendar is printed on a quarterly basis, the
deadline for having all the blanks filled in comes every 3 months.
That means that for some dances (beginning of the quarter) there is
much less lead time than for others (at the end of the quarter).  So,
for example, the first dance in October is first publicized at the
beginning of September.  The drop-dead deadline for printing is the
week before, and there are still some appearances of that ubiquitous
band "TBA".  (they sure do get around...)

We like to feature the performing staff at camps and weekends also at
our regular series dances, for many reasons:
  - to increase their exposure (and enhance the profitability, or at
least increase the liklihood that their trip is at least more
heavily subsidized);
  - to help spread the travel expense we are covering over more events;
  - to give event participants another taste to help ameliorate their
"post-camp depression";
  - to give dancers who couldn't attend the camp or weekend a chance to
hear & dance to the bands and callers

Those "satellite" dances need to be booked at the same time as the
dance camp or weekend.  Some of those are booked a year or more in
advance, so some regular series dance evenings might well be filled in
far in advance of the normal quarterly schedule.

We also like to support traveling/itinerant bands and callers.  Just
because it takes more advance planning to put together a tour that
makes sense, some of those dates also might get filled in ahead of
normal schedule. And if someone contacts us after a date is booked,
we may talk to the band/caller already booked and see if they are
willing to move to another date.  Sometimes a slight shuffle makes
room for more.

But most of all, we know that we need to support our local bands and
callers because that's where tomorrow's Hot Dance Band and Hot Caller
come from.  So we like to keep the scheduling as late as possible for
as many regular dances as possible, with the requirement that we list
actual bands (with musicians' names!) and callers on the printed
publicity which comes out quarterly.

There!  Much more information than you ever wanted :-)  But maybe some
of the reasoning behind it will be useful.

-Eric

--
Eric Black  e...@eric-black.com
http://www.eric-black.com/Caller
New CD:http://AmWeek.org/WBB2/
BACDS American Dance & Music Week:  http://AmWeek.org

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Linda Leslie]

Thanks to Woody, Colin, Jeff, Don, Kalia, and Jim for the responses to  
my original query.


Of particular note is this portion from Woody, who wrote:
From my perspective, as a caller, I am really reluctant to make a  
calling commitment a year in advance for a nearby community dance. Six  
months is no problem, but committing in May to calling a small  
community dance the following April -- I am not comfortable with that.  
Too many conflicts can arise, either in the dance/calling world or  
professionally, as I travel a lot for my work. True, I may miss some  
calling opportunities, but that can't be helped. (In contrast, I am  
not talking about caller/band tours which are often booked 8-12 months  
or more in advance.)


I feel exactly the same way, and I am so glad to know that there are  
other callers out there who prefer not to schedule so far into the  
future.

Linda

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Jeff Kaufman]

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Linda Leslie  wrote:
>
> It will be interesting to see what others think.

[organizer hat on]

While it's definitely more convenient to book a whole year at a time,
the farther ahead a dance books the longer a new band or caller has to
wait to play.  With the BIDA dance, which is twice a month, we try and
keep our booking to no more than about three months in advance.

(Sometimes this short lead time gets very short indeed.  For example,
we're still going back and forth booking the band for the dance after
next.)

Jeff

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Woody Lane]

On 9/11/2013 5:57 PM, Linda Leslie wrote:

I am very curious about how the programmers have decided to schedule
in this way, Kalia. Did they get together and decide to do it this
way, or did this just naturally happen? In the last few years, I have
noted that it can be a real challenge to try and schedule gigs, since
the time frame varies so significantly from dance to dance. A few
dances, such as the Concord MA Scout House, follow the quarterly rule
(with exceptions for traveling callers/bands from far away). But
others seem to schedule up to a year (or more!) in advance. I would
also enjoy knowing the thoughts of other callers on this subject.

Thanks! Linda


Hi Linda,

In addition to calling, I've been programming the Eugene dance for more 
than 7 years, so I experience both sides of this issue. We have 2 dances 
each month from Sept through June. Which kind of corresponds to an 
academic year. I break this up into two parts -- Fall (Sept through Dec) 
and Spring (Jan through June). I begin booking the fall dances in April 
and May, usually done by the end of June. I begin booking the spring 
dances in Sept and October, usually done by mid-November. My MO is that 
I don't send out an all-points-alert for dates. I generally contact each 
caller and band individually for specific dates (or a wide or narrow 
choice of dates) -- at least for the initial dates I can fill. As Jim 
pointed out, I think that individual contact shows appreciation for 
individual skills and qualities whereas a broadcast does not. Contacting 
folks individually is more work, but it also allows us to visit about 
possible band-caller combinations and preferences that I may not know 
about. But in the end, if there are still open dates, then I will send a 
(relatively narrow) broadcast.


I have noticed that some other venues in Western Oregon have gone to 
filling their entire season (Sept through June) at one time. Those 
programmers contact folks in May for the entire following year. I think 
that is for the programmer's convenience, and also that they may be 
afraid that they won't get talent when they need it.


From my perspective, as a caller, I am really reluctant to make a 
calling commitment a year in advance for a nearby community dance. Six 
months is no problem, but committing in May to calling a small community 
dance the following April -- I am not comfortable with that. Too many 
conflicts can arise, either in the dance/calling world or 
professionally, as I travel a lot for my work. True, I may miss some 
calling opportunities, but that can't be helped. (In contrast, I am not 
talking about caller/band tours which are often booked 8-12 months or 
more in advance.)


Woody
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
http://www.woodylanecaller.com
voice: 541-440-1926 cell: 541-556-0054
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Colin Hume]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 20:57:04 -0400, Linda Leslie wrote:
> A few  dances, such as the Concord MA Scout House, follow the
> quarterly rule (with exceptions for traveling callers/bands from
> far away). But others seem to schedule up to a year (or more!) in
> advance.

Groups in England book bands and callers much further ahead. I have
12 bookings for 2014 (it would often be more by this time of the year)
and 3 for 2015.

Colin Hume

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[James Saxe]

Kalia Kliban wrote:


The way we book here [in the greater SF Bay area] is on a
quarterly basis.  The programmers (each venue has their own)
request the available dates from callers and musicians partway
through the previous quarter, and then assemble the next
quarter's program from who's available. ...


and Linda Leslie asked:


I am very curious about how the programmers have decided to
schedule in this way, Kalia. Did they get together and decide
to do it this way, or did this just naturally happen? ...


I'm not Kalia, but I'm one of the dance programmers* in her
area and I think I can shed some light the topic.

[*To be specific, the BACDS Palo Alto contra series is
programmed by a committee of which I am a member, along with
SW callers' list members Alan Winston and Eric Black, and
others.  Many other local dance series have single individuals
in charge of programming (for example list member Erik Hoffman
for the BACDS Berkeley contra series), though there may be lots
of other people involved with setting up the hall, publicity,
etc. etc.]

First, I should say that not all local programmers work in the
manner Kalia describes--sending out a big mailing to request
availability dates, accumulating responses, and then sending
out the quarterly schedule.  And even those who do use that
method often do some of their scheduling with more lead time
and more one-at-a-time inquiries to specific bands or callers,
particularly when booking out-of-area performers or when booking
performers for special events (e.g., New Year's Eve).

That said, there is a strong tendency to work on a quarterly
cycle, and the reason--at least for BACDS dances--is that we
have for many years published a quarterly printed calendar.
The calendars are mailed out (to those members and other
mailing list subscribers who have elected to receive paper
mailings rather than electronic publicity only), along with
other publicity flyers, near the start of the month preceding
a calendar quarter.  For example our October-December 2013
calendars went out a few days ago.

In order for calendars (and other flyers) to be printed in
time for the mailing, the bookings need to be done during the
previous month or so--in August (or maybe late July) for Oct-Dec,
in November (or late October) for Jan-Mar, etc.  The later in
this window the bookings get done, the more you can end up with
last-minute scrambling for one reason or another.  On the other
hand, the earlier you try to do it (especially if you try to
do it many months earlier), the more you're asking performers
to commit far in advance, which some may be reluctant to do--
especially if they're the kind of people who sometimes get
bookings for weddings or corporate parties that pay better than
even the larger local contras.

Concerning the choice of sending out a general solicitation for
availability dates vs. contacting bands and callers individually
and filling in the calendar piecemeal, I know of pros and cons
on both sides.  An advantage of the one-at-a-time approach is
that performers may feel more appreciated if they're contacted
individually and in circumstances where they know that an offer
of availability will result (and fairly promptly) in a booking.
An advantage of the batch method is that you know what more of
the puzzle pieces look like before you have to put them together.
So, for example, you don't make a commitment for date X with band
Y only to discover later that some other band has date X as their
only available date and/or that you have really slim pickings
for date Z, which band Y might have filled if you hadn't already
booked them for dace Z.

Other advantages and disadvantages might be cited for either
of these approaches to booking or for mixed approaches, but
I'll stop here.  I'd be interested in knowing what other dance
programmers do about all this and why.

Linda, I hope that answers your question.

--Jim

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Kalia Kliban]

On 9/11/2013 6:00 PM, Don Veino wrote:

My experience is similar. However, I note that the smaller dances in our
area are the ones booking further out - they seem to establish their whole
annual schedule in one go.


There are some independent local dances near here that operate that way. 
 I find it really hard to commit to a single night of a weekend a year 
in advance, though.


Kalia

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Kalia Kliban]

On 9/11/2013 5:57 PM, Linda Leslie wrote:

Kalia wrote:

The way we book here is on a quarterly basis


I am very curious about how the programmers have decided to schedule in
this way, Kalia. Did they get together and decide to do it this way, or
did this just naturally happen? In the last few years, I have noted that
it can be a real challenge to try and schedule gigs, since the time
frame varies so significantly from dance to dance. A few dances, such as
the Concord MA Scout House, follow the quarterly rule (with exceptions
for traveling callers/bands from far away). But others seem to schedule
up to a year (or more!) in advance. I would also enjoy knowing the
thoughts of other callers on this subject.


Eric Black and Alan Winston probably know a lot more about the evolution 
of our local calendering system than I do.  Would either of you two like 
to pitch in here?


Kalia

Re: [Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Don Veino]

My experience is similar. However, I note that the smaller dances in our
area are the ones booking further out - they seem to establish their whole
annual schedule in one go.


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Linda Leslie wrote:

> Kalia wrote:
>
>  The way we book here is on a quarterly basis.  The programmers (each
>> venue has their own) request the available dates from callers and musicians
>> partway through the previous quarter, and then assemble the next quarter's
>> program from who's available.  There's a sort of limbo period when you've
>> sent out your dates to lots of different series, but don't yet know which
>> ones are going to book you.  Sometimes they all do, and you wind up with a
>> quarter filled with insane 3-gig weekends. Sometimes none do.  There's
>> usually some flex, though, so if you find yourself overbooked on a given
>> weekend you can often get the programmers to jiggle things around a little
>> and rearrange the schedule.
>>
>
> I am very curious about how the programmers have decided to schedule in
> this way, Kalia. Did they get together and decide to do it this way, or did
> this just naturally happen? In the last few years, I have noted that it can
> be a real challenge to try and schedule gigs, since the time frame varies
> so significantly from dance to dance. A few dances, such as the Concord MA
> Scout House, follow the quarterly rule (with exceptions for traveling
> callers/bands from far away). But others seem to schedule up to a year (or
> more!) in advance. I would also enjoy knowing the thoughts of other callers
> on this subject.
>
> Thanks! Linda
>
> __**_
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/**mailman/listinfo/callers
>

[Callers] Scheduling/programmer Question

[Linda Leslie]

Kalia wrote:

The way we book here is on a quarterly basis.  The programmers (each  
venue has their own) request the available dates from callers and  
musicians partway through the previous quarter, and then assemble  
the next quarter's program from who's available.  There's a sort of  
limbo period when you've sent out your dates to lots of different  
series, but don't yet know which ones are going to book you.   
Sometimes they all do, and you wind up with a quarter filled with  
insane 3-gig weekends. Sometimes none do.  There's usually some  
flex, though, so if you find yourself overbooked on a given weekend  
you can often get the programmers to jiggle things around a little  
and rearrange the schedule.


I am very curious about how the programmers have decided to schedule  
in this way, Kalia. Did they get together and decide to do it this  
way, or did this just naturally happen? In the last few years, I have  
noted that it can be a real challenge to try and schedule gigs, since  
the time frame varies so significantly from dance to dance. A few  
dances, such as the Concord MA Scout House, follow the quarterly rule  
(with exceptions for traveling callers/bands from far away). But  
others seem to schedule up to a year (or more!) in advance. I would  
also enjoy knowing the thoughts of other callers on this subject.


Thanks! Linda