Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On 20/02/2009, at 8:49 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote: From: Dan Dascalescu ddascalescu+catal...@gmail.com Regarding wiki questions: The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org), Too bad that it doesn't run under Windows. Why not? I can't think of any practical reason why it wouldn't. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
From: Kieren Diment kie...@diment.org On 20/02/2009, at 8:49 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote: From: Dan Dascalescu ddascalescu+catal...@gmail.com Regarding wiki questions: The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org), Too bad that it doesn't run under Windows. Why not? I can't think of any practical reason why it wouldn't. First I was not able to install File::NFSLock with cpan, but I found a ppm distribution for it. But I've seen that after doing this, more other cpan modules couldn't be installed, and one of them is Cache::FastMmap which I know that it can't be installed under Windows. Octavian ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
First I was not able to install File::NFSLock with cpan, but I found a ppm distribution for it. But I've seen that after doing this, more other cpan modules couldn't be installed, and one of them is Cache::FastMmap which I know that it can't be installed under Windows. I switched Cache::FastMmap for Cache::FileCache (in MojoMojo.pm) which seems to work fine, but I haven't run a full test suite or used in production. I didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest Strawberry version. -rodrigo ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Dan Dascalescu ddascalescu+catal...@gmail.com ddascalescu%2bcatal...@gmail.com wrote: Rodrigo, MojoMojo now supports custom styles. A different theme can be seen at http://nordaaker.no/wiki/. We think the typography needs improvement, and a Mediawiki-like theme would be very good to have. I know. I brute-forced the main catalystframework.org css into a MojoMojo theme to see how it would look. I'm not a web-designer, so don't expect wonders... You can see it here: http://rodrigolive.googlepages.com/catmojo.jpg Is the Catalyst Wiki code in the svn repository or backed-up somewhere? I think it would be good to have a development version (with the current content snapshot) so I can work on a makeover. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
http://rodrigolive.googlepages.com/catmojo.jpg Wow, quite neat, really. I didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest Strawberry version. I did, and I'm not the only one: http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=40185 PS: Cache::Memory is a bogus dependency. I just removed it. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Rodrigo rodrigol...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Dan Dascalescu ddascalescu+catal...@gmail.com ddascalescu%2bcatal...@gmail.com wrote: Rodrigo, MojoMojo now supports custom styles. A different theme can be seen at http://nordaaker.no/wiki/. We think the typography needs improvement, and a Mediawiki-like theme would be very good to have. I know. I brute-forced the main catalystframework.org css into a MojoMojo theme to see how it would look. I'm not a web-designer, so don't expect wonders... You can see it here: http://rodrigolive.googlepages.com/catmojo.jpg Is the Catalyst Wiki code in the svn repository or backed-up somewhere? I think it would be good to have a development version (with the current content snapshot) so I can work on a makeover. Looks nice. MojoMojo is hosted in git. You can check it out from http://github.com/marcusramberg/mojomojo/tree/master. There is a sql snapshot with the user passwords stripped out at http://dev.thefeed.no/stuff/wiki_dump.sql.gz . We are quite interested in getting a catalyst theme for mojomojo. With regards Marcus Ramberg ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
From: Rodrigo rodrigol...@gmail.com First I was not able to install File::NFSLock with cpan, but I found a ppm distribution for it. But I've seen that after doing this, more other cpan modules couldn't be installed, and one of them is Cache::FastMmap which I know that it can't be installed under Windows. I switched Cache::FastMmap for Cache::FileCache (in MojoMojo.pm) which seems to work fine, but I haven't run a full test suite or used in production. I didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest Strawberry version. -rodrigo I've just tried to do the same thing using ActivePerl, but without success. Cache::memory can't be installed with cpan, and I also couldn't find a ppm distribution for it. I don't know if Strawberry can be used with Active State's Perl Developer Kit and I think it might appear some conflicts if I would have 2 perl distributions installed in the same time... Octavian ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
From: Dan Dascalescu ddascalescu+catal...@gmail.com I didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest Strawberry version. I did, and I'm not the only one: http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=40185 PS: Cache::Memory is a bogus dependency. I just removed it. I have also removed it, but I found that I can't install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn with cpan, and there is no ppm distribution for it. Octavian ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
I have also removed it, but I found that I can't install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn with cpan, and there is no ppm distribution for it. Octavian Wow. I haven't had a problem with that either, in at least 5 different XP machines. Are you running Vista? What's the error? I'm using the October 2008 versions, so I've just downloaded Jan 2009 Strawberry 5.10.0.4, installed it to c:\strawberry, ran cpan, then notest install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn and it installed it ok. On the other hand, DBIx::Class didn't due to SQLite issues, but EncodedColumn didn't seem to care. Obviously that would need some testing, but as far as installation goes, it seems to be fine. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
From: Rodrigo I have also removed it, but I found that I can't install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn with cpan, and there is no ppm distribution for it. Wow. I haven't had a problem with that either, in at least 5 different XP machines. Are you running Vista? What's the error? I run Win XP Pro SP3. The error is below. I think the relevant error is: t/02digest1/32 Can't call method keysize on an undefined value at E:/perl510/site/lib/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm line 525. I have tried a: cpan install Crypt::OpenPGP But I received the message that this module is up to date. I use ActivePerl 5.10.0 build 1004. The full output is: CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GR/GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.2.tar.gz Cannot determine perl version info from lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn.pm Checking if your kit is complete... Looks good Writing Makefile for DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility Version 8.00.50727.42 Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn/Crypt/Eksblowfish/Bcrypt.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn\Crypt\Eksblowfish\Bcrypt.pm cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn.pm cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn/Digest.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn\Digest.pm cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn\Crypt\OpenPGP.pm GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.2.tar.gz nmake -- OK Running make test Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility Version 8.00.50727.42 Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. E:\perl510\bin\perl.exe -MExtUtils::Command::MM -e test_harness(0, 'inc', 'blib\lib', 'blib\arch') t/*.t t/01load..ok t/02digest1/32 Can't call method keysize on an undefined value at E:/perl510/site/lib/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm line 525. # Looks like you planned 32 tests but ran 26. # Looks like your test exited with 2 just after 26. t/02digest Dubious, test returned 2 (wstat 512, 0x200) Failed 6/32 subtests Test Summary Report --- t/02digest (Wstat: 512 Tests: 26 Failed: 0) Non-zero exit status: 2 Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 32 tests but ran 26. Files=2, Tests=27, 2 wallclock secs ( 0.03 usr + 0.00 sys = 0.03 CPU) Result: FAIL Failed 1/2 test programs. 0/27 subtests failed. NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'E:\perl510\bin\perl.exe' : return code '0x2' Stop. GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.2.tar.gz nmake test -- NOT OK //hint// to see the cpan-testers results for installing this module, try: reports GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.2.tar.gz Running make install make test had returned bad status, won't install without force Failed during this command: GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.2.tar.gz: make_test NO cpan ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:18, Trevor Phillips wrote: What is the best practices for Wiki updates? There isn't one specifically. Should new articles be posted to this list first, for discussion, or should they be just whacked into the Wiki, then posted here for review/deletion? I'd do the latter, as it doesn't block getting your content out and editable by a bunch of people. If people don't care - they won't read your list post, if they do care then it's going to be easier for everyone to contribute if the text is in the wiki than if you have to tease apart a mailing list thread of comments and re-post. Although giving the list heads up if you add anything significant that you'd like reviewing is totally cool :) Is there an alert/review process for Wiki edits? Is there a core team that will be notified of changes/additions, so they can review/delete? No, there isn't. As someone fairly new to Catalyst, I'm happy to contribute, but I'm hesitant to jump in start making changes additions... Perhaps there should be a prominent page on the Wiki on how to best contribute to the Wiki? Well done, you just volunteered to write that page (and some others if I was hearing right) :) Cheers t0m ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Devin Austin devin.aus...@gmail.comwrote: Rodrigo, If you have any, you're more than welcome to ask for SVN permissions to check in some. I know i have a few example apps I'd like to show off in /examples Sure! Where can I request svn permissions? Actually, I'd like to work also on a sassier getting-started page for the dev.catalystframework.org/wiki http://catalystframework.org site. IMO, the Catalyst Wiki could get a makeover: some css styling (so that the wiki is aligned with the homepage), column separated content, more short description of links or sections, or anything that improves usability really, for beginners and experienced users alike. The CatalystFramework homepage, on the other hand, would benefit from a more dynamic news or latest section, so it won't be so static. Of course, that means maintaining it to keep it dynamic... But nothing fancy here. Content is certainly more important than looks. But the raw idea is to make information pop out, making things faster/easier to find. What do you think? -rodrigo ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:41 AM, Rodrigo rodrigol...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, I'd like to work also on a sassier getting-started page for the dev.catalystframework.org/wiki site. IMO, the Catalyst Wiki could get a makeover: some css styling (so that the wiki is aligned with the homepage), column separated content, more short description of links or sections, or anything that improves usability really, for beginners and experienced users alike. I agree that the Wiki could do with some work, although I don't mind the style so much. ^_^ I do think it could be a little better organised, and promoted though. Also, I think having a prominent last modified date on a Wiki page is a useful indication, and maybe even a Catalyst Version reference for howtos code snippets. (Again, a specialist knowledge base could handle that sort of data filtering better than a Wiki I think). What is the best practices for Wiki updates? Should new articles be posted to this list first, for discussion, or should they be just whacked into the Wiki, then posted here for review/deletion? Is there an alert/review process for Wiki edits? Is there a core team that will be notified of changes/additions, so they can review/delete? As someone fairly new to Catalyst, I'm happy to contribute, but I'm hesitant to jump in start making changes additions... Perhaps there should be a prominent page on the Wiki on how to best contribute to the Wiki? Here's some quick observations on things I think could be clearer on the main Catalyst site too: *The main site Community link goes straight to the Wiki. How about a Community page that summarises the Wiki, the mail list, the IRC channel, etc... *The main site Documentation goes straight to the manual - yet there's also documentation in the Wiki. Again, Docs page which deep links into key pages in the official docs and parts of the Wiki would be better IMHO. *The main site Developer jumps straight into the Catalyst repository (hmmm, there's a theme here). How about clarifying resources for Developers who work on Catalyst versus Developers who use Catalyst to develop apps? -- Trevor Phillips - http://dortamur.livejournal.com/ On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of course. But mostly evil, on the whole. -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
Regarding wiki questions: The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org), a project led by Marcus Ramberg. I tend to do a bit of coding too, and more advocacy and managing ideas. We've set up a feedback board for MojoMojo at http://mojomojo.ideascale.com/. To join the MojoMojo team, hang out in #mojomojo on irc.perl.org, or fork mojomojo off github, do your patch, then submit a pull request. Rodrigo, MojoMojo now supports custom styles. A different theme can be seen at http://nordaaker.no/wiki/. We think the typography needs improvement, and a Mediawiki-like theme would be very good to have. Trevor, The practice so far has been to post articles on the wiki, which then get corrected by the community, just as it happens with other wikis. Pretty much everyone agrees that newbies write the best documentation. If something wrong slips into your article, it will be corrected down the line. So feel free to dive ahead after having a look at the main structure and searching the wiki. It's usually faster to go ahead and fix things, e.g. There's also, it seems, a quite extensive Cookbook in the CPAN documentation - yet the Wiki doesn't link to it or mention it? It took less than 30 seconds to add a link to Catalyst::Manual::Cookbook on the main page. There is currently no e-mail notification about changes to the wiki, but this is on the list: http://mojomojo.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/11563-2416. In the meantime, there is a list of recent changes at http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/.recent Also, I think having a prominent last modified date on a Wiki page is a useful indication Good idea. I just pushed a fix for that. mst will hopefully update Catwiki to the latest MojoMojo. HTH, Dan ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Trevor Phillips trevor.phill...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Jay Kuri j...@ion0.com wrote: My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) I'm new to Catalyst, having started to look into it a few months back (and now developing several apps in it). The auto-schema stuff on DBIx::Class was great. All the has_many many_to_many it took a while to wrap my brain around, and I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of it, but referring back to the docs, I can figure it out. Trying to do a moderately complex SQL query in DBIx::Class is a nightmare! Sometimes I wish I could just write out the SQL myself - even if it's chunked up into fields, condition, join, etc... This is called a learning curve :) When you first started to learn SQL, you wrote very simple queries and worked your way up. I've been using DBIC for a few years, and now I have resultset methods that can be chained so I can filter and refine queries in ways I would never even expect. Sure, sometimes I get frustrated because I can write the SQL but can't quite sort out how to do it in DBIC but I can at least patch DBIC! -J ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Feb 17, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Trevor Phillips wrote: I'm pretty new to the Catalyst community, and still very much a Catalyst newbie. I don't know how open this list is to having the same n00b questions asked over over again. I'd be happy to write up a few howto's myself, as I discover stuff, but I'm not confident I'm doing things the right way anyway, or if people would care about the same topics I struggle with, or where the best place to document this sort of Cookbook/FAQ stuff is... Welcome! We're all on this list because we either use or care about this framework. Help yourself, and others! http://dev.catalystframework.org/wiki/ Kenny ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
Jay Kuri wrote: To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My biggest problem was how to handle the Norwegian characters (æøå) in an app with MySql, DBIx::Class, TT and mod_perl. use Catalyst qw/Unicode/ only solves the TT and mod_perl side of the pipeline. I finally ended up with (IMHO) a cludge: adding on_connect_do = [ set character_set_client = 'utf8', ] to the connect_info. It only works as long as the internal coding in Perl happens to be utf8. I also had problems finding out how to create more comples FormFu forms, with respect to layout, types of objects, and constraints. The main problem was that the documentation is (IMHO) scarce and scattered over a large number of files. (This is arguably a FormFu problem, but FormFu is important for Catalyst applications. :-) -- Bjørn-Helge Mevik ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On 17 Feb 2009, at 11:34, Bjørn-Helge Mevik wrote: Jay Kuri wrote: To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My biggest problem was how to handle the Norwegian characters (æøå) in an app with MySql, DBIx::Class, TT and mod_perl. use Catalyst qw/Unicode/ only solves the TT and mod_perl side of the pipeline. I finally ended up with (IMHO) a cludge: adding on_connect_do = [ set character_set_client = 'utf8', ] to the connect_info. It only works as long as the internal coding in Perl happens to be utf8. http://search.cpan.org/~capttofu/DBD-mysql-4.010/lib/DBD/mysql.pm#mysql_enable_utf8 for a less kludgy way I also had problems finding out how to create more comples FormFu forms, with respect to layout, types of objects, and constraints. The main problem was that the documentation is (IMHO) scarce and scattered over a large number of files. (This is arguably a FormFu problem, but FormFu is important for Catalyst applications. :-) This is generally the problem with any such scaffold - they are fine until they aren't. You either make them simple to use and learn, or possible to extend how you want. Not both. -ash ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to put together some more web-available information for those transitioning to catalyst from other methods. To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up (or sponsor). My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) Areas you could focus on: - Basic Form handling, implemented with a specific module: formfu, rose, etc.. - Possibly: Form handling with AJAX - CRUD operations with multiple tables - Building your own fat model API, to put as much logic into your model and then use this API in your controllers. 2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your average web app. Deployment with FastCGI Putting dependencies in your Makefile.pl and how to install it on another box. 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need! But what kind of example are you planning to do? How about you cover CRUD, to build something like... yet another Blog? Have a couple of tables with relationships like author, story, tags, categories, comments... link them up with dbix::class, use formfu for the forms, and to make it interesting: add some ajax on the forms to validate the input, without reloading the page. keep the example simple, yet functional, so that others can build on it and extend it. I'd be interested in writing some parts of a tutorial like this. Let me know if you need some help writing documentation. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
Hear hear! Practical example ftw! To add yet *another* branch to this discussion, I think it would be neat to add a few sections on Coming from $framework where $framework eq rails, django, .net, etc. That's probably a bit down the road, as most of my ideas seem to be. On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 12:46 PM, David Steiner tw03d...@technikum-wien.atwrote: So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to put together some more web-available information for those transitioning to catalyst from other methods. To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up (or sponsor). My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) Areas you could focus on: - Basic Form handling, implemented with a specific module: formfu, rose, etc.. - Possibly: Form handling with AJAX - CRUD operations with multiple tables - Building your own fat model API, to put as much logic into your model and then use this API in your controllers. 2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your average web app. Deployment with FastCGI Putting dependencies in your Makefile.pl and how to install it on another box. 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need! But what kind of example are you planning to do? How about you cover CRUD, to build something like... yet another Blog? Have a couple of tables with relationships like author, story, tags, categories, comments... link them up with dbix::class, use formfu for the forms, and to make it interesting: add some ajax on the forms to validate the input, without reloading the page. keep the example simple, yet functional, so that others can build on it and extend it. I'd be interested in writing some parts of a tutorial like this. Let me know if you need some help writing documentation. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ -- Devin Austin http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost! ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need! And example apps! As a Catalyst beginner, I craved example apps the most (I still do!). While learning, I find it more productive checking out a small example app by both reading code and doing a run through the interface, rather than big walkthrough tutorials or pod copy-pasting. Also, tiny apps can easily be used as quick-starters for your real apps, sorta like the next step up from Catalyst::Helper modules. The stuff in the wiki and http://dev.catalystframework.org/repos/Catalyst/trunk/examples/ may serve as a starting point. CPAN also hosts some apps, including MojoMojo. And I'm sure we all have many small test apps laying around we can just tarball and share. -rodrigo ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
Rodrigo, If you have any, you're more than welcome to ask for SVN permissions to check in some. I know i have a few example apps I'd like to show off in /examples On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Rodrigo rodrigol...@gmail.com wrote: 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need! And example apps! As a Catalyst beginner, I craved example apps the most (I still do!). While learning, I find it more productive checking out a small example app by both reading code and doing a run through the interface, rather than big walkthrough tutorials or pod copy-pasting. Also, tiny apps can easily be used as quick-starters for your real apps, sorta like the next step up from Catalyst::Helper modules. The stuff in the wiki and http://dev.catalystframework.org/repos/Catalyst/trunk/examples/ may serve as a starting point. CPAN also hosts some apps, including MojoMojo. And I'm sure we all have many small test apps laying around we can just tarball and share. -rodrigo ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ -- Devin Austin http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost! ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Jay Kuri j...@ion0.com wrote: My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) I'm new to Catalyst, having started to look into it a few months back (and now developing several apps in it). The auto-schema stuff on DBIx::Class was great. All the has_many many_to_many it took a while to wrap my brain around, and I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of it, but referring back to the docs, I can figure it out. Trying to do a moderately complex SQL query in DBIx::Class is a nightmare! Sometimes I wish I could just write out the SQL myself - even if it's chunked up into fields, condition, join, etc... 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. I found the Tutorial walkthrough (http://search.cpan.org/~hkclark/Catalyst-Manual-5.7016/lib/Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial.pod) to be great as a kick-start. I just wish the Advanced CRUD was a bit more fleshed out (or that FormFu was easily apt-gettable). Having a branching tutorial with some alternatives (such as something other than TT, for example) would be good. I think what I miss most is: *A quick reference howto guide for common (and advanced) stuff. How do I get a HTTP header? How do I set a response status? How do I have a wrapper template, yet also support other forms of output like AJAX/JSON/XML? What does this method or that method do and where should they be used? How can I use two separate Authentication systems for different parts of the app? Just brief FAQ-style code snippets with good explanations... (Maybe someone could whip up a Catalyst FAQ app to handle question submissions, community answers, categorisation, searching, etc... Would be better IMHO than a single Wiki page... ^_^) *Clarification on the Path and Args (and others?) sub parameters, with examples on advanced usage. *Best Practices - I guess this comes in to the earlier points as well. Rather than munge something together that works, if I can easily find a code snippet that does a similar thing, then I'll use that snippet. For example; How do I provide a controller which handles both a HTML and an AJAX response? How do I specify the AJAX qualifier in the query string? Do I use a query parameter? Or append something like :ajax to the URI? Or go to a completely separate URI? How do I set out my Controller methods to most efficiently handle both situations without code duplication? *Interactive Demo/Tuts would be really good. If there's so many CRUD systems to choose from, then having a live demo of each next to the relevant code snippet would really help quickly highlight the pros cons of each. *Better linking/cataloguing to documentation. For example, the Wiki seems to have a Cookbook, with a handful of articles. There's also, it seems, a quite extensive Cookbook in the CPAN documentation - yet the Wiki doesn't link to it or mention it? As I said, I found the Tutorial to be really good, but I find I'm using the Tutorial as my documentation for my own app, rather than looking straight in the manual, or in the wiki resources... The Manual Cookbook seems good - I should use it more often. I'm pretty new to the Catalyst community, and still very much a Catalyst newbie. I don't know how open this list is to having the same n00b questions asked over over again. I'd be happy to write up a few howto's myself, as I discover stuff, but I'm not confident I'm doing things the right way anyway, or if people would care about the same topics I struggle with, or where the best place to document this sort of Cookbook/FAQ stuff is... -- Trevor Phillips - http://dortamur.livejournal.com/ On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of course. But mostly evil, on the whole. -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
Well, people are going to want to know how Catalyst compares to *ahem* others as far as AJAX goes, certainly REST, and app servers like nginx, lighttpd, etc. Also, best practices. Walking beginning to end on an app is great, but a lot of the newbies end up having to throw away a lot of their newly acquired knowledge for what *should* be done. Perhaps best practices is best left for a thread on its own, but I think it should somehow be addressed. How about how Catalyst interacts with caching components/technologies? I'm just trying to think of production level necessities that we'll want to advertise to newcomers/defectors. Any of these sound legitimate? On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Jay Kuri j...@ion0.com wrote: Hello, So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to put together some more web-available information for those transitioning to catalyst from other methods. To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up (or sponsor). My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) 2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your average web app. 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Any others? Jay ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ -- Devin Austin http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost! ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Octavian Râsnita orasn...@gmail.comwrote: Good idea. I think that many beginners find hard to learn Catalyst if they are coming from another framework, or even worse, from CGI.pm, because right after they begin, they need to learn DBIx::Class, Template-Toolkit, YAML or Config::General, and they might not understand very fast if a certain piece of text is a Catalyst code, or a DBIC one or something else. So I think a good tutorial should start without using DBIC or a configuration file, and without using a view and a model. It should be that kind of example that You shouldn't do this, but it is ment for understanding Catalyst easier. So the first MyApp.pm should use only the Root.pm controller, and print a very short of html text using $c-response-body(). The next sample should upgrade that example and show how Catalyst gets the parameters from a form, almost like CGI.pm does, and print the body in the same way, using the same warning that this code is not one that should be used. The next example should upgrade that sample app and tell why a view is needed, and how Catalyst can be used to forward to a certain view, tell how to configure a default view in MyApp.pm, and print the body using a view, but without using TT. The next example should show the advantage of using templates, introduce the TT view, the TT helper that creates the view automaticly, and print the page using a single .tt file, or a very small number of templates that create the page. There could be another sample that shows what kind of another view can be used to print the same content in a different way by just forwarding to it. Then maybe there would be good to introduce the configuration file, show how to use Config::General and why it is useful to use a config file. After the beginner started to understand how Catalyst works, how the actions work... the basic ones like Local, Index, Default, Private, Auto, introduce the model, and show a simple model that puts and gets the data in a more simple way, not by using DBI or DBIC. For example, it could open() a file and store the information to it. Then the model that should be teached should be the one that uses DBI, and show the user that he can have a $dbh object in any action, without needing to connect to the database by specifying each time the database name, username, password and other options. And only after the user will understand how Catalyst works, what means a model, teach them DBIx::Class which is pretty hard to understand if it is taught together with Catalyst without knowing any of them. Maybe here would be good a suggestion to stop and read a DBIx::Class tutorial, for understanding that module outside Catalyst, and understand even better which are the features offered by Catalyst and which are the ones offered by DBIC. Then... it could be much easier to understand how the authentication/authorization that uses DBIC works and other Catalyst features. It might sound too stupid, but for a beginner it should sound very stupid, and he should find it very easy to understand, with very little things to learn on each step, and finally he will see that he knows how to use Catalyst with its most important features. I also think that the explanation should be simple to understand even for those who don't know Perl at all. Octavian - Original Message - From: Jay Kuri j...@ion0.com To: catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions Hello, So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to put together some more web-available information for those transitioning to catalyst from other methods. To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up (or sponsor). My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) 2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your average web app. 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Any others? Jay ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ I think we should also consider branching on whether someone is
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
Right... As I've said before, I'm not interested in the super-newbie area. I don't want to teach perl. Teaching better perl practices, sure. Teaching what a sigil is and what they mean in perl... not so much. Overall, I'm interested in helping those who are new to the Catalyst platform but are already interested and those who are thinking about it but need a bit more of a clear path through the reams of documentation that is 'out there.' Jay On Feb 16, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Devin Austin wrote: I think we should also consider branching on whether someone is experienced with perl or absolutely new. Catalyst certainly isn't for the new perl programmer, so there are some basics at the very bare minimum that need to be covered in perl first. -- Devin Austin http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost! ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions
On 17/02/2009, at 8:01 AM, Octavian Râsnita wrote: Good idea. I think that many beginners find hard to learn Catalyst if they are coming from another framework, or even worse, from CGI.pm, because right after they begin, they need to learn DBIx::Class, Template- Toolkit, YAML or Config::General, and they might not understand very fast if a certain piece of text is a Catalyst code, or a DBIC one or something else. [snip useful description ] I would be very happy to recommend an approach such as this for the book, if someone wants to have it written by mid april (when the final first draft is done). Chapter three is a little like this, only we have a (non-database) model and view (very simple TT) straight away. Spoonfeeding like this isn't going to go into the book as space is limited and we have to get to the intermediate / advanced stuff quite quickly. But, a tutorial with this structure would be good and I'd support it going into Catalyst::Manual::Tutuorial as Catalyst::Manual::Tutorial::Beginner or something. It might sound too stupid, but for a beginner it should sound very stupid, and he should find it very easy to understand, with very little things to learn on each step, and finally he will see that he knows how to use Catalyst with its most important features. I also think that the explanation should be simple to understand even for those who don't know Perl at all. Octavian - Original Message - From: Jay Kuri j...@ion0.com To: catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions Hello, So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to put together some more web-available information for those transitioning to catalyst from other methods. To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst. (or that you are currently having trouble with) My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up (or sponsor). My working list is as follows (in no particular order.) 1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of view) 2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your average web app. 3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end. Any others? Jay ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
