[cayugabirds-l] Christmas Bird Count and Hunting Pressure
In an effort to move the discussion towards some sort of resolution, I have have a couple of questions. Does anyone have answers? 1) Has the late waterfowl hunting season overlapped with the Ithaca CXBC for ever? If not, since when? 2) Who (office or person) in the DEC sets the season dates? Is it strictly a matter for the DEC, or is US Fish Wildlife involved? 3) I know we have a TRADITION of counting on New Year's Day. (And I love to start the new year this way.) But would counting on a different day change the value of the data we collect? And in a significant manner? Chris T-H: If this discussion gets too far off topic for the listserve, let us know! Bob McGuire -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Christmas Bird Count and Hunting Pressure
No, the late duck hunting season has not always overlapped with our count. It's only been a problem in the last 10 years or so. I remember being shocked the first time the opening day was 1 January. I had never experienced any such disruption in the previous decade of the count. The duck season can change every year if the DEC decides to do it. It has started on 1 Jan for the last few years, but started earlier this year. So, if we had moved our count back to this last weekend, we would have been just as bad off. I believe the length, timing, and even existence of waterfowl seasons are tied to duck productivity numbers so that they can be responsive to population changes. I'm not sure there even WAS a late duck season 20 years ago. The only predictable and reliable date in any of this is that most people have 1 January off. Everything else changes with the year. Kevin -Original Message- From: bounce-111406900-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-111406900-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of bob mcguire Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:19 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Christmas Bird Count and Hunting Pressure In an effort to move the discussion towards some sort of resolution, I have have a couple of questions. Does anyone have answers? 1) Has the late waterfowl hunting season overlapped with the Ithaca CXBC for ever? If not, since when? 2) Who (office or person) in the DEC sets the season dates? Is it strictly a matter for the DEC, or is US Fish Wildlife involved? 3) I know we have a TRADITION of counting on New Year's Day. (And I love to start the new year this way.) But would counting on a different day change the value of the data we collect? And in a significant manner? Chris T-H: If this discussion gets too far off topic for the listserve, let us know! Bob McGuire -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Christmas Bird Count and Hunting Pressure
From: bob mcguire Sent: ?Monday?, ?December? ?30?, ?2013 ?10?:?19? ?AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L In an effort to move the discussion towards some sort of resolution, I have have a couple of questions. Does anyone have answers? 1) Has the late waterfowl hunting season overlapped with the Ithaca CXBC for ever? If not, since when? The DEC must work each year within guidelines established by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. Those guidelines can change each year based on surveys of breeding pairs of ducks across a wide swath of Canada and the northern US and surveys of ponds in the prairie pothole region of the Great Plains. Results of these surveys affect total season length, bag limits for ducks (including for specific species and even hens vs. drake ducks), and whether states can have a split season or just one set of inclusive dates for hunting ducks. These guidelines differ for each of the four major flyways in North America (we are in the Atlantic Flyway; the others are the Mississippi, the Central, and the Pacific). New York is the only state in the nation that is allowed by federal regulation to have five management zones for hunting waterfowl. Most states are limited to no more than three. NY's topography and habitat diversity are unique when it comes to waterfowl. The five zones allow for a finer resolution on harvest management. In years when duck populations are low (often corresponding to drought in the pothole region), seasons are short, bag limits are low, and usually split seasons don't occur. Compared to historical trends, populations of many (not all) species of waterfowl are relatively high this year. Thus, federal guidelines allow states to have the maximum number of days for hunting ducks (60 in NY), liberal bag limits, and a split season. (NY has a split season this year in that the first split starts in October and goes for a 43 days this year in the western zone and then started again on December 28 for another 17 days for a total of 60 days). 2) Who (office or person) in the DEC sets the season dates? Is it strictly a matter for the DEC, or is US Fish Wildlife involved? NY has a waterfowl management team made up of biologists from across the state. They set the start-end dates for hunting in the different management zones based on a host of data, including average freeze-up dates (e.g., beaver ponds in the northern part of the state freeze over by early November causing ducks to move out of that part of the state), timing of waterfowl migration, when waterfowl hunting have time available for hunting (which is why the season dates try to maximize weekends and holidays), and other factors. Having done a lot of research on waterfowl hunters and waterfowl hunting for DEC to use in season setting over the last 25 years, I can say that I am aware of no mechanism through which DEC could change season timing or other regulations within a small area of one of the five major management zones in the state. 3) I know we have a TRADITION of counting on New Year's Day. (And I love to start the new year this way.) But would counting on a different day change the value of the data we collect? And in a significant manner? I know others can speak to this more knowledgeably that I can. I recall in previous years so good discussion of the pros and cons of changing the timing of counts, etc. Hope this helps Jody Enck Chris T-H: If this discussion gets too far off topic for the listserve, let us know! Bob McGuire -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
ADMIN: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Christmas Bird Count and Hunting Pressure
In answer to Bob's last request, below: I see no problem with this topic, as long as it remains constructive. Sincerely, Chris T-H On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:18 AM, bob mcguire bmcgu...@clarityconnect.commailto:bmcgu...@clarityconnect.com wrote: In an effort to move the discussion towards some sort of resolution, I have have a couple of questions. Does anyone have answers? 1) Has the late waterfowl hunting season overlapped with the Ithaca CXBC for ever? If not, since when? 2) Who (office or person) in the DEC sets the season dates? Is it strictly a matter for the DEC, or is US Fish Wildlife involved? 3) I know we have a TRADITION of counting on New Year's Day. (And I love to start the new year this way.) But would counting on a different day change the value of the data we collect? And in a significant manner? Chris T-H: If this discussion gets too far off topic for the listserve, let us know! Bob McGuire -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Chris Tessaglia-Hymes Listowner, Cayugabirds-L Ithaca, New York c...@cornell.edumailto:c...@cornell.edu Cayugabirds-L – Archiveshttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Cayugabirds-L – Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Cayugabirds-L – Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Cayugabirds-L – Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Christmas Bird Count and Hunting Pressure
Thanks Jody. I find Mo Barger's reference (http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/42364.html) to the DEC invitation for input most helpful. By the looks of it, the (western) season dates are set EACH YEAR based on the recommendations of a group of 12 people. The first two (J Adriance J Eckler) appear to be DEC. The rest not. I don't know who the remaining 10 are, but I suspect that none of them represent the birding community (which is certainly affected by the process of hunting). I would be curious to know what their meetings look like and how the decision is actually made. Bob McGuire On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Jody W Enck wrote: From: bob mcguire Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:19 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L In an effort to move the discussion towards some sort of resolution, I have have a couple of questions. Does anyone have answers? 1) Has the late waterfowl hunting season overlapped with the Ithaca CXBC for ever? If not, since when? The DEC must work each year within guidelines established by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. Those guidelines can change each year based on surveys of breeding pairs of ducks across a wide swath of Canada and the northern US and surveys of ponds in the prairie pothole region of the Great Plains. Results of these surveys affect total season length, bag limits for ducks (including for specific species and even hens vs. drake ducks), and whether states can have a split season or just one set of inclusive dates for hunting ducks. These guidelines differ for each of the four major flyways in North America (we are in the Atlantic Flyway; the others are the Mississippi, the Central, and the Pacific). New York is the only state in the nation that is allowed by federal regulation to have five management zones for hunting waterfowl. Most states are limited to no more than three. NY’s topography and habitat diversity are unique when it comes to waterfowl. The five zones allow for a finer resolution on harvest management. In years when duck populations are low (often corresponding to drought in the pothole region), seasons are short, bag limits are low, and usually split seasons don’t occur. Compared to historical trends, populations of many (not all) species of waterfowl are relatively high this year. Thus, federal guidelines allow states to have the maximum number of days for hunting ducks (60 in NY), liberal bag limits, and a split season. (NY has a split season this year in that the first split starts in October and goes for a 43 days this year in the western zone and then started again on December 28 for another 17 days for a total of 60 days). 2) Who (office or person) in the DEC sets the season dates? Is it strictly a matter for the DEC, or is US Fish Wildlife involved? NY has a waterfowl management team made up of biologists from across the state. They set the start-end dates for hunting in the different management zones based on a host of data, including average freeze-up dates (e.g., beaver ponds in the northern part of the state freeze over by early November causing ducks to move out of that part of the state), timing of waterfowl migration, when waterfowl hunting have time available for hunting (which is why the season dates try to maximize weekends and holidays), and other factors. Having done a lot of research on waterfowl hunters and waterfowl hunting for DEC to use in season setting over the last 25 years, I can say that I am aware of no mechanism through which DEC could change season timing or other regulations within a small area of one of the five major management zones in the state. 3) I know we have a TRADITION of counting on New Year's Day. (And I love to start the new year this way.) But would counting on a different day change the value of the data we collect? And in a significant manner? I know others can speak to this more knowledgeably that I can. I recall in previous years so good discussion of the pros and cons of changing the timing of counts, etc. Hope this helps Jody Enck Chris T-H: If this discussion gets too far off topic for the listserve, let us know! Bob McGuire -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1)
