[ccp4bb] Rice vs Sim vs ACNSFD

2009-04-09 Thread Bernhard Rupp
Dear All,

 

I am unsure about the likelihood function nomenclature.

 

I have seen the Sim function called the Rice function, and 

aIso have read the acentric conditional normalized structure factor
distribution (ACNSFD)

called the Rice function (the centric conditional normalized structure
factor distribution

consistently seems to be the Woolfson distribution).

 

Looking at both the Sim and ACNSFD, they look like the

pdf in figure 6 of Rice ( who interestingly, attributes the function 

to a Mr Bennett in ‘some unpublished work’. So I guess Rice made the Race).

 

So believe that 

a)  both the Sim distribution and the ACNSFD

 are A Rice function, not THE Rice function. Agreeable?

 

b)  is there a proper name for the ACNSFD or generally

for the acentric conditional structure factor distribution? 

 

Thx, BR

-
Bernhard Rupp
001 (925) 209-7429
+43 (676) 571-0536
b...@qedlife.com
b...@ruppweb.org 
http://www.ruppweb.org/ 
-

Die Wissenschaft und die Wissenschafter werden 

von Angst regiert - Angst vor der öffentlichen 

Meinung, Angst vor religiöser Intoleranz, vor 

politischem Druck und vor allem Angst vor 

Heuchelei und Vorurteilen.

 

William Masters und Virginia Johnson, 1970
-

 

 



Re: [ccp4bb] Rice vs Sim vs ACNSFD

2009-04-09 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Bernhard

Oh dear we're getting into naming issues again!!  I'm not clear what's the 
distinction you're making between 'A Rice function' and 'THE Rice function' 
since my understanding was that there was only one form of Rice distribution, 
i.e. the one defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_distribution .

As for the 'Sim function', one problem seems to be that crystallographers 
appear to have used this to mean two different things: 1) the PDF of the 
*(complex) structure factor*, which is really just a 2-D Gaussian, and 2) the 
PDF of the *(real) structure amplitude*, which is the Rice distribution, and 
which is the result of integrating out of the phase (which gives the I0 
component of the Rice distribution) from the structure factor distribution.

I don't have Sim's original paper to hand so I don't know know how he defined 
it, or even whether he ever called his function a 'Rice function'.  However it 
would seem more logical to call the integrated (Rice) form of Sim's function 
'the Sim distribution' and not use this term to mean the 2-D Gaussian.

As for ACNSFD  CCNSFD, I'm not clear what you mean, could you be more 
specific, in particular do you mean the *structure amplitude* distributions?

Cheers

-- Ian

 -Original Message-
 From: owner-ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk [mailto:owner-ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On
 Behalf Of Bernhard Rupp
 Sent: 09 April 2009 07:06
 To: CCP4BB@jiscmail.ac.uk
 Subject: Rice vs Sim vs ACNSFD
 
 Dear All,
 
 
 
 I am unsure about the likelihood function nomenclature.
 
 
 
 I have seen the Sim function called the Rice function, and
 
 aIso have read the acentric conditional normalized structure factor
 distribution (ACNSFD)
 
 called the Rice function (the centric conditional normalized structure
 factor distribution
 
 consistently seems to be the Woolfson distribution).
 
 
 
 Looking at both the Sim and ACNSFD, they look like the
 
 pdf in figure 6 of Rice ( who interestingly, attributes the function
 
 to a Mr Bennett in 'some unpublished work'. So I guess Rice made the
 Race).
 
 
 
 So believe that
 
 a)  both the Sim distribution and the ACNSFD
 
  are A Rice function, not THE Rice function. Agreeable?
 
 
 
 b)  is there a proper name for the ACNSFD or generally
 
 for the acentric conditional structure factor distribution?
 
 
 
 Thx, BR
 
 -
 Bernhard Rupp
 001 (925) 209-7429
 +43 (676) 571-0536
 b...@qedlife.com
 b...@ruppweb.org
 http://www.ruppweb.org/
 -
 
 Die Wissenschaft und die Wissenschafter werden
 
 von Angst regiert - Angst vor der öffentlichen
 
 Meinung, Angst vor religiöser Intoleranz, vor
 
 politischem Druck und vor allem Angst vor
 
 Heuchelei und Vorurteilen.
 
 
 
 William Masters und Virginia Johnson, 1970
 -
 
 
 
 



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Re: [ccp4bb] Rice vs Sim vs ACNSFD

2009-04-09 Thread Bernhard Rupp
Dear Ian,

 distinction you're making between 'A Rice function' and 'THE Rice
function' since 
 my understanding was that there was only one form of Rice distribution, 
 i.e. the one defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_distribution
.

The same distinction seems common for the Gauss ND - we say that some 
normal distribution is A Gauss function, not THE Gauss function

 and 2) the PDF of the *(real) structure amplitude*, which is the Rice
distribution, 
 and which is the result of integrating out of the phase (which gives the
I0 component 
 of the Rice distribution) from the structure factor distribution.

The integrated-out real distribution with I0 seems to be the one that
appears in the majority
of the Sim papers. He probably never called it a Rice function, because his
first
derivation of that formula probably parallels the 1954 'Mathematical
analysis 
of random noise', but there are references to earlier talks of Rice in it. 

 However it would seem more logical to call the integrated (Rice) form of
Sim's 
 function 'the Sim distribution' and not use this term to mean the 2-D
Gaussian.

That seems logical.

 As for ACNSFD  CCNSFD, I'm not clear what you mean, 

Integrated form of Sim/Rice distribution and Woolfson distribution, 
expressed in normalized structure factor amplitudes. Fits your defs. 

 do you mean the *structure amplitude* distributions?

Ah - payback for the obsoleting of the structure amplitudes
Yes, all clear. Thx!

And thx again to Dominika for copying the Rice article (a 180 pp book part,
actually)

Cheers

BR


Re: [ccp4bb] Rice vs Sim vs ACNSFD

2009-04-09 Thread Bernhard Rupp
Actually, on more digging, there seems to be a publication of the
Mathematical Analysis of Random Noise, by Rice already in 1944/45

http://www.ieee.org/web/aboutus/history_center/biography/rices.html

No idea of Rice and Sim were aware of each other's work.

Best, BR