Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Kevin Jude]

DMSO is a good solvent for superglue and won't dissolve your loops.

--
Kevin Jude, PhD
Structural Biology Research Specialist, Garcia Lab
Howard Hughes Medical Institute
Stanford University School of Medicine
Beckman B177, 279 Campus Drive, Stanford CA 94305
Phone: (650) 723-6431

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 8:51 AM Diana Tomchick <
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> wrote:

> We no longer use the reusable bases for the same reasons, but we do re-use
> our bases. If you use superglue to glue the pins into the bases, you can
> remove the pins from the bases by soaking them in acetone. This works about
> 75% of the time, especially if you are careful not to use too much
> superglue when you glue the pin into the base.
>
> It goes without saying that the use of acetone will dissolve the loop, but
> then the main reason we remove the pin is due to imperfections in the loop,
> so no big deal.
>
> Whenever we see the motions that you describe, we postulate that somehow
> the pins were damaged and they are loose in the base. Occasionally this
> motion is ascribed to ice between the base of the pin and the magnetic
> mount, but this happens very rarely in our experience.
>
> Diana
>
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> UT Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> --
> *From:* CCP4 bulletin board  on behalf of Tao-Hsin
> Chang 
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:07 PM
> *To:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK 
> *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts
>
>
> EXTERNAL MAIL
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> I have met the same issue and that is very bad for any micro-focus beam
> and small crystals. I have talked with Mitegen and they are developing a
> new type of reusable base having an improvement for this issue. You may get
> some update from them. But, I do not use the reusable bases anymore.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tao-Hsin
>
> On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Loll  wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting crystals,
> since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard the base every
> time I break a microloop. However, once the crystals arrive at the
> synchroteon, I observe motions of the loops (some gradual, some sporadic).
> The the amplitudes of these motions are becoming significant as I take data
> from smaller and smaller crystals. I don’t think I’m imagining this, since
> the good folks at NSLS-2/AMX have warned me about this very issue.
>
> I’m writing to ask if anyone has any clever ideas about stabilizing these
> assemblies. Obviously, I can epoxy the pins in place, but then I’ll
> probably need to discard the entire assembly when I break a loop, and I’d
> prefer not to waste more money than necessary. I’ve considered putting a
> bead of wax at the point where the pin enters the base (although I haven’t
> yet checked to see if that will survive immersion in liquid nitrogen). Does
> anyone have any other (better) ideas?
>
> Much obliged in advance,
>
> Pat
> __
>
> Patrick J.  Loll, PhD
> Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
> Drexel University College of Medicine
> Room 10-102 New College Building
> 245 N. 15th St.
> Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA
>
> (215) 762-7706
> pj...@drexel.edu
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1
>
>
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside UTSW. Please be cautious of
> links or attachments, and validate the sender's email address before
> replying.
>
>
> --
>
> UT Southwestern
>
> Medical Center
>
> The future of medicine, today.
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1
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Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Douangamath, Alice (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI)]

Hi everyone,
Apologies to the late joining. 
XChem at Diamond light source only uses reusable bases and that since the start 
of xchem 4-5 years ago and we have lots of them (2000 maybe more?).
Simple reason is that they are the only bases on the market which are re-usable 
and really easy to make replacement for: you pull out the old pins, you slot in 
the new ones. When preparing the pins, you can notice pretty quickly the 'bad' 
bases: With time, it becomes really hard to slot in the pin and the pin comes 
back up so you can see by eye that the overall pin length is longer than the 
Spine standard. The pin is also not snuggly fitting in the base. We then tend 
to throw away those bases. In the last 4-5 years, I don't remember us throwing 
away so many of those and given how heavily we use them (being frozen and thawn 
many many times), they seem to hold for some time. We do not use any acetone, 
glue etc...we clean them using a sonicator bath.

Regarding the slipping pin issue, when we were optimising the centring on i04-1 
for automated centring, we have noticed that if you are not 'drying' the base 
at the early stage of the centring, we would not get the reliability we 
observed when doing reliability test at room temperature and that is because of 
pin drifting. We have put an 'air blowing focussed on the base' system on i04-1 
and that has greatly improve the reliability. We have beamsize from ~35 to 70um 
and our smallest crystals are about 35um so we might have got away until now 
but we will keep an eye on this the day we upgrade for much smaller beam!

Alice

 

-Original Message-
From: CCP4 bulletin board  On Behalf Of Andrew Purkiss
Sent: 16 November 2020 19:03
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

Hi Everyone,

Just to put a word in favour of the re-usable bases. We've been using them for 
many years with little issue. The advantage of being able to make up 
"emergency" loops when needed during a freezing session being a big advantage.

I have occasionally noticed the slipping pin issue (and when it occurs that 
base is withdrawn from use), but I've not noticed a general problem with 
smaller movement upon rotation. However, we do see the ice on the base issue 
(mainly due to impatient users freezing their samples). Here, samples can be 
seen to shift, even without rotation, for a few moments after mounting. Once 
the ice on the base/goniometer inteface has melted, the position stabilises.

Of course, one advantage of the Diamond Light Source microfocus beamline, I24, 
is that the pin is vertical in the beam, so the mount isn't fighting gravity 
during rotation.

Andy

Quoting Diana Tomchick :

> We no longer use the reusable bases for the same reasons, but we do 
> re-use our bases. If you use superglue to glue the pins into the 
> bases, you can remove the pins from the bases by soaking them in 
> acetone. This works about 75% of the time, especially if you are 
> careful not to use too much superglue when you glue the pin into the 
> base.
>
> It goes without saying that the use of acetone will dissolve the loop, 
> but then the main reason we remove the pin is due to imperfections in 
> the loop, so no big deal.
>
> Whenever we see the motions that you describe, we postulate that 
> somehow the pins were damaged and they are loose in the base.
> Occasionally this motion is ascribed to ice between the base of the 
> pin and the magnetic mount, but this happens very rarely in our 
> experience.
>
> Diana
>
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry UT Southwestern Medical 
> Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
> 
> From: CCP4 bulletin board  on behalf of 
> Tao-Hsin Chang 
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:07 PM
> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK 
> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts
>
>
> EXTERNAL MAIL
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> I have met the same issue and that is very bad for any micro-focus 
> beam and small crystals. I have talked with Mitegen and they are 
> developing a new type of reusable base having an improvement for this 
> issue. You may get some update from them. But, I do not use the 
> reusable bases anymore.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tao-Hsin
>
> On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Loll 
> mailto:pjl...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting 
> crystals, since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard 
> the base every time I break a microloop. However, once the crystals 
> arrive at the synchr

Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Andrew Purkiss]

Hi Everyone,

Just to put a word in favour of the re-usable bases. We've been using
them for many years with little issue. The advantage of being able to
make up "emergency" loops when needed during a freezing session being
a big advantage.

I have occasionally noticed the slipping pin issue (and when it occurs
that base is withdrawn from use), but I've not noticed a general
problem with smaller movement upon rotation. However, we do see the
ice on the base issue (mainly due to impatient users freezing their
samples). Here, samples can be seen to shift, even without rotation,
for a few moments after mounting. Once the ice on the base/goniometer
inteface has melted, the position stabilises.

Of course, one advantage of the Diamond Light Source microfocus
beamline, I24, is that the pin is vertical in the beam, so the mount
isn't fighting gravity during rotation.

Andy

Quoting Diana Tomchick :


We no longer use the reusable bases for the same reasons, but we do
re-use our bases. If you use superglue to glue the pins into the
bases, you can remove the pins from the bases by soaking them in
acetone. This works about 75% of the time, especially if you are
careful not to use too much superglue when you glue the pin into the
base.

It goes without saying that the use of acetone will dissolve the
loop, but then the main reason we remove the pin is due to
imperfections in the loop, so no big deal.

Whenever we see the motions that you describe, we postulate that
somehow the pins were damaged and they are loose in the base.
Occasionally this motion is ascribed to ice between the base of the
pin and the magnetic mount, but this happens very rarely in our
experience.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

From: CCP4 bulletin board  on behalf of
Tao-Hsin Chang 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:07 PM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK 
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts


EXTERNAL MAIL

Hi Patrick,

I have met the same issue and that is very bad for any micro-focus
beam and small crystals. I have talked with Mitegen and they are
developing a new type of reusable base having an improvement for
this issue. You may get some update from them. But, I do not use the
reusable bases anymore.

Best wishes,
Tao-Hsin

On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Loll
mailto:pjl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting 
crystals, since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard

the base every time I break a microloop. However, once the crystals
arrive at the synchroteon, I observe motions of the loops (some
gradual, some sporadic). The the amplitudes of these motions are
becoming significant as I take data from smaller and smaller
crystals. I don’t think I’m imagining this, since the good folks at
NSLS-2/AMX have warned me about this very issue.

I’m writing to ask if anyone has any clever ideas about stabilizing
these assemblies. Obviously, I can epoxy the pins in place, but then
I’ll probably need to discard the entire assembly when I break a 
loop, and I’d prefer not to waste more money than necessary. I’ve

considered putting a bead of wax at the point where the pin enters
the base (although I haven’t yet checked to see if that will survive
immersion in liquid nitrogen). Does anyone have any other (better)
ideas?

Much obliged in advance,

Pat
__

Patrick J.  Loll, PhD
Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
Drexel University College of Medicine
Room 10-102 New College Building
245 N. 15th St.
Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA

(215) 762-7706
pj...@drexel.edu<mailto:pj...@drexel.edu>



To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
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before replying.



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Medical Center

The future of medicine, today.



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###

Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Minmin]

When trying to recover the bases glued with the pins, if happening the acetone 
possibly to get bases rusty, the bunsen burner flame may help melt the glue to 
get pins removed from the bases quickly and cleanly. Of course, be cautious 
about the fire safety and use forceps to hold the pins during the process, not 
to pointing the pins to oneself or anybody else although the pins usually won't 
be shot out too far. 
So the reuseable pins can be glued if worrying about the shifting for the bases 
can be recovered OK afterwards. 
 
 
  On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 at 16:51, Diana 
Tomchick wrote:   #yiv9535150920 P 
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}We no longer use the reusable bases for the same 
reasons, but we do re-use our bases. If you use superglue to glue the pins into 
the bases, you can remove the pins from the bases by soaking them in acetone. 
This works about 75% of the time, especially if you are careful not to use too 
much superglue when you glue the pin into the base.
It goes without saying that the use of acetone will dissolve the loop, but then 
the main reason we remove the pin is due to imperfections in the loop, so no 
big deal.
Whenever we see the motions that you describe, we postulate that somehow the 
pins were damaged and they are loose in the base. Occasionally this motion is 
ascribed to ice between the base of the pin and the magnetic mount, but this 
happens very rarely in our experience.
Diana
**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)From: CCP4 bulletin board  on behalf 
of Tao-Hsin Chang 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:07 PM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK 
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts 


EXTERNAL MAIL


Hi Patrick,
I have met the same issue and that is very bad for any micro-focus beam and 
small crystals. I have talked with Mitegen and they are developing a new type 
of reusable base having an improvement for this issue. You may get some update 
from them. But, I do not use the reusable bases anymore.
Best wishes,Tao-Hsin


On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Loll  wrote:
Hi everyone,
I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting crystals, 
since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard the base every time I 
break a microloop. However, once the crystals arrive at the synchroteon, I 
observe motions of the loops (some gradual, some sporadic). The the amplitudes 
of these motions are becoming significant as I take data from smaller and 
smaller crystals. I don’t think I’m imagining this, since the good folks at 
NSLS-2/AMX have warned me about this very issue.
I’m writing to ask if anyone has any clever ideas about stabilizing these 
assemblies. Obviously, I can epoxy the pins in place, but then I’ll probably 
need to discard the entire assembly when I break a loop, and I’d prefer not to 
waste more money than necessary. I’ve considered putting a bead of wax at the 
point where the pin enters the base (although I haven’t yet checked to see if 
that will survive immersion in liquid nitrogen). Does anyone have any other 
(better) ideas?
Much obliged in advance,
Pat
__
Patrick J.  Loll, PhDProfessor of Biochemistry & Molecular BiologyDrexel 
University College of MedicineRoom 10-102 New College Building245 N. 15th 
St.Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA
(215) 762-7706pj...@drexel.edu

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| 
UT Southwestern 
 |
| 
Medical Center
 |
|  |
| 
The future of medicine, today.
 |



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Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Diana Tomchick]

We no longer use the reusable bases for the same reasons, but we do re-use our 
bases. If you use superglue to glue the pins into the bases, you can remove the 
pins from the bases by soaking them in acetone. This works about 75% of the 
time, especially if you are careful not to use too much superglue when you glue 
the pin into the base.

It goes without saying that the use of acetone will dissolve the loop, but then 
the main reason we remove the pin is due to imperfections in the loop, so no 
big deal.

Whenever we see the motions that you describe, we postulate that somehow the 
pins were damaged and they are loose in the base. Occasionally this motion is 
ascribed to ice between the base of the pin and the magnetic mount, but this 
happens very rarely in our experience.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

From: CCP4 bulletin board  on behalf of Tao-Hsin Chang 

Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:07 PM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK 
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts


EXTERNAL MAIL

Hi Patrick,

I have met the same issue and that is very bad for any micro-focus beam and 
small crystals. I have talked with Mitegen and they are developing a new type 
of reusable base having an improvement for this issue. You may get some update 
from them. But, I do not use the reusable bases anymore.

Best wishes,
Tao-Hsin

On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Loll 
mailto:pjl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting crystals, 
since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard the base every time I 
break a microloop. However, once the crystals arrive at the synchroteon, I 
observe motions of the loops (some gradual, some sporadic). The the amplitudes 
of these motions are becoming significant as I take data from smaller and 
smaller crystals. I don’t think I’m imagining this, since the good folks at 
NSLS-2/AMX have warned me about this very issue.

I’m writing to ask if anyone has any clever ideas about stabilizing these 
assemblies. Obviously, I can epoxy the pins in place, but then I’ll probably 
need to discard the entire assembly when I break a loop, and I’d prefer not to 
waste more money than necessary. I’ve considered putting a bead of wax at the 
point where the pin enters the base (although I haven’t yet checked to see if 
that will survive immersion in liquid nitrogen). Does anyone have any other 
(better) ideas?

Much obliged in advance,

Pat
__

Patrick J.  Loll, PhD
Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
Drexel University College of Medicine
Room 10-102 New College Building
245 N. 15th St.
Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA

(215) 762-7706
pj...@drexel.edu<mailto:pj...@drexel.edu>



To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1




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Medical Center

The future of medicine, today.



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Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Tao-Hsin Chang]

Hi Patrick,

I have met the same issue and that is very bad for any micro-focus beam and 
small crystals. I have talked with Mitegen and they are developing a new type 
of reusable base having an improvement for this issue. You may get some update 
from them. But, I do not use the reusable bases anymore.

Best wishes,
Tao-Hsin

> On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Loll  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting crystals, 
> since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard the base every time 
> I break a microloop. However, once the crystals arrive at the synchroteon, I 
> observe motions of the loops (some gradual, some sporadic). The the 
> amplitudes of these motions are becoming significant as I take data from 
> smaller and smaller crystals. I don’t think I’m imagining this, since the 
> good folks at NSLS-2/AMX have warned me about this very issue.
> 
> I’m writing to ask if anyone has any clever ideas about stabilizing these 
> assemblies. Obviously, I can epoxy the pins in place, but then I’ll probably 
> need to discard the entire assembly when I break a loop, and I’d prefer not 
> to waste more money than necessary. I’ve considered putting a bead of wax at 
> the point where the pin enters the base (although I haven’t yet checked to 
> see if that will survive immersion in liquid nitrogen). Does anyone have any 
> other (better) ideas?
> 
> Much obliged in advance,
> 
> Pat
> __
> 
> Patrick J.  Loll, PhD
> Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
> Drexel University College of Medicine
> Room 10-102 New College Building
> 245 N. 15th St.
> Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA
> 
> (215) 762-7706
> pj...@drexel.edu 
> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 
> 



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Re: [ccp4bb] Stabilizing Mitegen reusable bases/mounts

[Tim Gruene]

Dear Patrick,

you can use ordinary glue ("Uhu Sekundenkleber") or nail varnish to glue
the pin into the base. To remove the pin, just keep it in a beaker with
acetone. Both glue and varnish resolve within short time (an hourish?)
This has been practice in the labs where I worked for the past 20
years. I am surprise Mitegen found a market for their 'resuable' bases.

Best,
Tim

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:45:01 -0500
Patrick Loll  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I’ve become very fond of the Mitegen reusable bases for mounting
> crystals, since the reusable aspect savse me from having to discard
> the base every time I break a microloop. However, once the crystals
> arrive at the synchroteon, I observe motions of the loops (some
> gradual, some sporadic). The the amplitudes of these motions are
> becoming significant as I take data from smaller and smaller
> crystals. I don’t think I’m imagining this, since the good folks at
> NSLS-2/AMX have warned me about this very issue.
> 
> I’m writing to ask if anyone has any clever ideas about stabilizing
> these assemblies. Obviously, I can epoxy the pins in place, but then
> I’ll probably need to discard the entire assembly when I break a
> loop, and I’d prefer not to waste more money than necessary. I’ve
> considered putting a bead of wax at the point where the pin enters
> the base (although I haven’t yet checked to see if that will survive
> immersion in liquid nitrogen). Does anyone have any other (better)
> ideas?
> 
> Much obliged in advance,
> 
> Pat
> __
> 
> Patrick J.  Loll, PhD
> Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
> Drexel University College of Medicine
> Room 10-102 New College Building
> 245 N. 15th St.
> Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA
> 
> (215) 762-7706
> pj...@drexel.edu
> 
> 
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Tim Gruene
Head of the Centre for X-ray Structure Analysis
Faculty of Chemistry
University of Vienna

Phone: +43-1-4277-70202

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