Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[COURYHOUSE]

Pretty  futile to restore  until I have manuals  and a  load  tape if  
needed in front of  me. The  previous  owner  said it  powered up   and did not 
 
blow  smoke  so that  is a good  thing... but  even still  that   was  many 
many years  ago.
 
Unlike  you Jay  that has a 'mountain'  of  DG stuff in  front of  you  to  
*wicker basket  something together  from... all I have is this one lonely  
rack!
 
I have  no  familiarity  with  DG  op/sys   at  all never  ran one ..
 
I did had  an orig  NOVA  ( lo s/n no othersuffix  after it... about 
the  first year I was in the computer  business  sold it to someone...   I  
did  try to track  it  back but they guy  has  scrapped  it... as  I  
found out  30   years  later.
 
BUT!   I  figure   DG  sould have   some sort of representation here... and 
if it   attracts MORE  DG  so  be it!Least  case it  needs  a terminal to 
display with it and ... yes... A POSTER!
 
This month's  'make  computer  work ' project  is  HP-3000  related. 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2015 12:04:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:

Ed  wrote...

Our Eclipse is not as  grand as   some  photos ,,, and  the  tape  drive is 
a
small  side  by  side  reel unit that  fits in the  single rack   here is  a
photo of  ours   
http://www.smecc.org/data_general.htm

There's nothing non-grand  about that. Nice non-blinken Eclipse with 6125
tape drive, and some type of  disk unit in the bottom. Nice.

And...

had it  for   years need   manuals  etc and   maybe  some sales  lit.  
or
scans  of  advertising  material to  display with it...   but  yea... it
cries  out to have a terminal  with it!

No, it cries out to be  restored and run rather than just sitting under a
poster. But that's just  me.

J

Are we different?

[Murray McCullough]

I was reading an article in Maximum PC, Nov. 2015, p.82 that got my
attention. It said: “When the lower orders knew their place?” I wonder
if he means users of vintage computers? Just asking!

Happy computing.

Murray  :)

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[COURYHOUSE]

that may have been the one  i  had
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2015 11:59:29 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:


On  mine, there is no "blank panel space" to the right of the screen.  The
screen takes up the entire horizontal width. Diagonally, the terminal  
"head"
measures 21 inches so it's slightly unusually large for a terminal.  On the
back, under model number it says  "5821NT".

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Fred Cisin]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:

what an F77 programmer might recognize as FORTRAN.


Wouldn't an F77 programmer be looking for Fortran, not FORTRAN?

But back in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN, 
including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".

Ah, yes.  I remember WatFor


FORTRAN II in general was a free-for-all, varying between 
machines from the same manufacturer.


I hadn't been using FORTRAN long when I was thrown into PDQ FORTRAN.

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small eclipse

[Jay Jaeger]

I have at least one D200 and a couple of 6053 terminals.  One of the
D200 terminals and one of the 6053 terminals (also called a Dasher D2)
each had one key that did not work last I checked.  I would guess that
they suffer from a kind of "key rot" similar to Sol computers.

OK.  NOW I GET IT.  Blue DG "E.T." head looking terminal.  Yeah, that
would probably be a D200.

JRJ

On 9/22/2015 11:08 AM, Jay West wrote:
> Jay Jaeger wrote...
> 
> ???  What do you mean by "blue dg et head looking terminal"  ???
> 
> 
> I'd bet that he's referring to the Data General Dasher D200 terminal.
> 
> I have one:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02/21058074082
> 
> But perhaps a better picture:
> http://maben.homeip.net/static/s100/data%20general/photos/DG%20dasher%20d200
> %20front.jpg
> 
> The D200 isn't always on ebay, but usually they show up mildly frequently
> there and seem to go around $200 to $250.
> 
> There was another common terminal on eclipse systems. I'm not sure if it was
> in the Dasher series, but I believe it was called a "5821". I have one of
> these as well.
> http://www.museumwaalsdorp.nl/computer/images/GRP.jpg
> 
> Lastly, a common combination system console (terminal)/printer that is VERY
> cool looking was the Dasher TP1 and TP2. Mine is a TP1.
> http://www.foxdata.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/IMG_0210.jpg
> 
> J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming

[mark]

I wrote X.25 software in Fortran:-(. We had some machine specific routines


One of my first professional jobs after college was with a company that 
created after-market hardware and software for Apollo workstations.  Despite 
having a good Pascal, I was tasked with (and completed) a port of a 
scientific word processor package (WordMarc), all in Fortran (77, at least). 
Since I ended up being pretty familiar with both the language and 
environment, I used it again to throw together a simple 8080 assembler in 
about a day, too.

~~
Mark Moulding

RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[Jay West]

Jay Jaeger wrote...

The one with the head in a yoke in my case is a 6053 aka Dasher D2.  

Interesting. Apparently there are two different ones that look like this -
"head in a yoke".

The ones in the picture that you mentioned being "6053 aka Dasher D2" are
NOT the one that I have.

The one I have also has it's head in a yoke, appears to use the identical
keyboard, but mine the contrast knob is on the  back, not on the front like
in those pictures.

On mine, there is no "blank panel space" to the right of the screen. The
screen takes up the entire horizontal width. Diagonally, the terminal "head"
measures 21 inches so it's slightly unusually large for a terminal. On the
back, under model number it says "5821NT".

So I'm guessing there's a 5821NT and 6053 that look similar but are not the
same. 

I'm just learning a bit about DG gear, I'm sure the experts here will chime
in with info!

Best,

J

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Dave Wade]

If you wanted portability then Fortran or Cobol were pretty much all you
had. Whilst there may have been C compilers you probably didn't have one,
certainly in the world of commerce. Which is why our X.25 code was in
Fortran..
On Sep 22, 2015 1:41 AM, "Toby Thain"  wrote:

> On 2015-09-21 5:58 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sep 21, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 09/21/2015 01:37 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
>>>
>>> I wrote X.25 software in Fortran:-(. We had some machine specific
 routines to allow the Fortran code to wait for a packet to arrive.
 There was also a huge vector of strings with matching integer arrays
 that allowed them to be chained together, and to have types allocated
 to them There were also a large number of "INCLUDE" files with a
 parameters which defined the structure of data stored in the
 character vectors

>>>
>>> PASCAL was first implemented in FORTRAN.
>>>
>>
>> Really? I find it hard to imagine that Wirth would use Fortran for a
>>
> compiler. Never mind his background in structured languages -- writing a
> compiler in Fortran is just much harder. Not as hard as writing one in
> COBOL, but still...
>
>>
>>
> Almost bearable in Ratfor/WATFOR/WATFIV though. Ref: "Elements of
> Programming Style."
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratfor
>
> --Toby
>
> paul
>>
>>
>>
>

RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small eclipse

[Jay West]

Jay Jaeger wrote...

???  What do you mean by "blue dg et head looking terminal"  ???


I'd bet that he's referring to the Data General Dasher D200 terminal.

I have one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02/21058074082

But perhaps a better picture:
http://maben.homeip.net/static/s100/data%20general/photos/DG%20dasher%20d200
%20front.jpg

The D200 isn't always on ebay, but usually they show up mildly frequently
there and seem to go around $200 to $250.

There was another common terminal on eclipse systems. I'm not sure if it was
in the Dasher series, but I believe it was called a "5821". I have one of
these as well.
http://www.museumwaalsdorp.nl/computer/images/GRP.jpg

Lastly, a common combination system console (terminal)/printer that is VERY
cool looking was the Dasher TP1 and TP2. Mine is a TP1.
http://www.foxdata.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/IMG_0210.jpg

J

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Chuck Guzis]

On 09/21/2015 11:37 PM, Dave Wade wrote:

If you wanted portability then Fortran or Cobol were pretty much all
you had. Whilst there may have been C compilers you probably didn't
have one, certainly in the world of commerce. Which is why our X.25
code was in Fortran..


There's always PRIMOS, the operating system used on Prime minis being in 
FORTRAN.  Although they later adopted PL/I, both versions of the system 
definition ("include") files were maintained.


Then there are specific dialects of FORTRAN; e.g. LRLTRAN used at 
Lawrence Livermore.  Much of the STAR-OS was written in that--but said 
dialect, in addition to having numerous extensions, also allowed inline 
machine code statements.


National's assembler for Programmable Array Logic (PAL) chips, I 
believe, was distributed as a FORTRAN product.  Several microprocessor 
cross-assemblers were likewise offered by their manufacturers.


In the 1960-70s, you really couldn't have a truly "portable" FORTRAN 
product unless you hewed to USA BASIC FORTRAN IV, which is a very small 
subset of what an F77 programmer might recognize as FORTRAN.  But back 
in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN, 
including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".  FORTRAN II in general was a 
free-for-all, varying between machines from the same manufacturer.

--
On a somewhat related note, the earliest published work that I can find 
that describes translation from one computer language to machine code 
involving an intermediate language is the "FOR TRANSIT" for the IBM 650.


A manual scan by Paul Pierce is here:

http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/650man/fortransit.pdf

Basically, FORTRAN source is converted to 650 IT, which is then compiled 
to SOAP, which performs the assembly function.


For those wondering about the notion of an "optimizing" assembler, one 
has to realize that 650 instructions were executed from a drum and were 
of the "1+1" addressing type.  Calculating the optimal address of the 
next instruction was very tedious and a perfect task for automatic 
optimization.


--Chuck

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[ben]

On 9/22/2015 2:22 PM, Diane Bruce wrote:


And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.


And where do get said Knowledge?
Ben.

Re: Are we different?

[Ian Finder]

wat?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2015, at 11:41, Murray McCullough  
> wrote:
> 
> I was reading an article in Maximum PC, Nov. 2015, p.82 that got my
> attention. It said: “When the lower orders knew their place?” I wonder
> if he means users of vintage computers? Just asking!
> 
> Happy computing.
> 
> Murray  :)

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jon Elson]

On 09/22/2015 03:35 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

On Sep 22, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Diane Bruce  wrote:


...

But back in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN,
including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".

Ah, yes.  I remember WatFor

And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.

Really?  "citation needed".

I also find this hard to believe.  C is a very different 
language structure than FORTRAN.
I checked out a Bell Unix distro on the PDP-11 and the 
FORTRAN compiler that came with it.
it had several big errors in implementing the standard 
FORTRAN language, and also printing out floating point 
numbers was laughably slow.  We decided to go with RSX-11M 
instead.  That experience put me off Unix-derived systems 
for years.  it made me think that that version of FORTRAN 
was not likely to have ever been used very much.


Jon

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jay Jaeger]

On 9/22/2015 8:49 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 09/22/2015 06:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> 
>> So, B was never actually a FORTRAN compiler, just Ken started
>> thinking about FORTRAN grammar and within one DAY took off in a
>> different direction.   By that time (1969 or so) FORTRAN was a really
>> old language, and considered way out of date by most universities'
>> Comp Sci departments.
> 
> Which is why C started out with a COMPLEX data type...NOT.  FORTRAN can
> run on a much wider variety of machines than can C.
> 
> C was nothing more than a bare step up from assembly.
> 
> --Chuck
> 

There is a big difference between "can run" and "does run".  I'd wager
that C *can* run on anything one could use for any reasonably useful
FORTRAN (thus excluding things like the IBM 1410 card oriented FORTRAN
compiler, though I am aware of an effort to develop a small C subset
compiler for the 1401).

The assertion that C was "nothing more than a bare step up from
assembly" is just that.  An assertion.  One with which I disagree pretty
firmly.

Old-time C can pretty easily handle a COMPLEX data type by defining a
simple struct containing two reals (or even ints, I suppose, if one
wants to constrain it that way), and a simple set of operations which
are passed the address of one or more such structs, returning a real/int
or the address of such a struct (for functions).  I would expect lots of
people did that sort of thing.  (Which also goes to show that C is a LOT
more than just a "bare step up from assembly").

JRJ

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Chuck Guzis]

On 09/22/2015 07:11 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:


There is a big difference between "can run" and "does run".  I'd
wager that C *can* run on anything one could use for any reasonably
useful FORTRAN (thus excluding things like the IBM 1410 card oriented
FORTRAN compiler, though I am aware of an effort to develop a small C
subset compiler for the 1401).

The assertion that C was "nothing more than a bare step up from
assembly" is just that.  An assertion.  One with which I disagree
pretty firmly.


We've been here before and I don't care to chew already masticated cud. 
 Suffice it to say, that I've never seen a C for a non-binary, 
variable-word-length machine using 6-bit characters.  I've seen plenty 
of FORTRANs for such an architecture, however.


--Chuck

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jon Elson]

On 09/22/2015 03:49 PM, Diane Bruce wrote:

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 04:35:24PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote:


And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.

Really?  "citation needed".

http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/Mahoney/expotape.htm


OK, Paul needed to read more closely.  (Think I got the 
attribution right...)

This is Dennis Ritchie speaking about Ken Thompson:

   Anyway, it took him about a day to realize that he
   didn't want to do a Fortran compiler at all. So he did
   this very simple language called B and got it going on
   the PDP-7.


So, B was never actually a FORTRAN compiler, just Ken 
started thinking about FORTRAN grammar and within one DAY 
took off in a different direction.   By that time (1969 or 
so) FORTRAN was a really old language, and considered way 
out of date by most universities' Comp Sci departments.


Jon

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[Jay Jaeger]

Hmmm.  I am getting a DNS miss on www.smecc.org - was not getting that
earlier today.

JRJ

On 9/22/2015 8:37 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> One  thing  first  look at this  andneed  more  info on it and  docs.
>  
> wish I had  more  info on this  IBM  tube   type  digital logic  trainer  
> kit.  comes in a   wonderful  fitted  case  with all kinds ofplugable  
> units
> see url  http://www.smecc.org/wpe_files/wpe45.jpg 
> 
>  
> current  project3000/37 and micro 3000
> Looking for  more   3000 stuff  both small  and   large  ( cx, ser I,I ser 
> III  etc.)
> Pulled them all over to the media  center  where I could spread  out and  
> work on them.
>  
> ok here is  some of   our  stuff.
> we are not  exclusively a computer museum  but  we   do  have  some 
>  
>  
> Other  areas   are 
>  scientific instruments,   
> radar  and  radar countermeasures  adn other electronic  warefare 
> radio and TV  broadcasting,
>   Rural Electrification,  
> Tools of the journalist, 
>   office automation  1800's   forward.
>  Telecommunications  for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing
> and on and  on 
>  
> Some  Minis
>  
> H 11 ( LSI-11  by  DEC  but   in   Heathpackaging )
> DEC PDP8 classsic sn/18
> HP-2116b
> HP-2000 access system (has  2  2100 in it)
> HP3000/37  ( when it is in the building) 
> eclipse s20
>  
> need to  clean and  wedge in
> Dec  PDP 11/20
> DEC PDP-8 S
> NEXT  cube, printer, monitor and all next-y  related  chachakies
>  
> who know  what are in the other  buildings
>  
> Micros...
>  
> Intel  Intellect 8   
> Altairs
> Imsais
> many  Comidore things
> many R.S.
> Heath h-8
> Heath H-89
> several osbornes
> apples
> sun-sparc
> lots of  single board  computers
> cobalt cube
> next  cube with all  accs
> a bunch of other ss
>  
> many many hp desktops and  pcs
> love the prtototype iHP Integral we  have  too
>  
>   
>  
>  
> trainers and  digital  labs
>  
> IBM  really  early  with  tube  type plugable  units
>  
> DEC lab
> Fabritec  lab 
>  
>  wish I had  more  info on this  IBM  comes in  a  wonderful  fitted  case  
> with all kinds ofplugable  units
> see url  http://www.smecc.org/wpe_files/wpe45.jpg 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 9/22/2015 3:25:29 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
> jw...@classiccmp.org writes:
> 
> Awesome.  What minicomputer systems do you have on public display besides 
> the
> DG? I'm  glad to see more DG representation of course :)
> 
> 
> This  month's  'make  computer  work ' project  is   HP-3000  related. 
> 
> I'm a bit of an HP fan ;) What's cooking  3K-related?
> 
> 

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Chuck Guzis]

On 09/22/2015 01:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:

what an F77 programmer might recognize as FORTRAN.


Wouldn't an F77 programmer be looking for Fortran, not FORTRAN?



It could be that "Fortran" was in common use, but I think not officially 
adopted and sanctified by X3J3 until F90.  I'd have to go reading 
through the standards to figure it out--right now, I don't have enough 
aspirin in my medicine cabinet for that.


--Chuck

Re: 'New' PDP-11 prints

[Noel Chiappa]

So, I've been going through all my PDP-11 prints, looking for ones that aren't
already online (so I can scan/upload them). I have a couple (see later
message), but this is about something else.

In doing the above, I ran across an LSI-11 print set (MP-00706) which is
about 340 pages long, and contains prints for all manner of boards, some of
which do not show up (for reasons I don't understand) when looked for in a
common search engine (Google, to be precise).

I will eventually be adding them to my list of 'online by unfindable print
sets':

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/FMPSOnline.html

(which I have recently updated with more finds falling out of the search of my
collection of prints), but: does anyone know of any other similar large
compendiums of prints online?

In particular, I'm hoping there's a later equivalent (this one's from October
1978) which would show a lot of the later QBUS boards which we don't have
prints for.

As I previously mentioned, I've gone through a number of PDP-11 print sets
which are online (11/05, 11/05S, 11/23, 11/34, etc) in compiling the initial
list, but it seems like there are more out there. Please let me know of any
others you are aware of, so I can trawl them too!

Noel

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Fred Cisin]

Wouldn't an F77 programmer be looking for Fortran, not FORTRAN?


On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
It could be that "Fortran" was in common use, but I think not officially 
adopted and sanctified by X3J3 until F90.  I'd have to go reading through the 
standards to figure it out--right now, I don't have enough aspirin in my 
medicine cabinet for that.


Thanks.
I mixed up 77 and 90.
Although I was assigned to TEACH F77 in the early 1980s, I was no longer 
using FORTRAN.   WHAT?? You can input and output without FORMAT??!?

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Diane Bruce]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 04:35:24PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote:
> 
> > On Sep 22, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Diane Bruce  wrote:
> > 
> >> ...
> >>> But back in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN, 
> >>> including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".
> >> Ah, yes.  I remember WatFor
> > 
> > And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.
> 
> Really?  "citation needed".

http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/Mahoney/expotape.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20030501014008/http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/chist.html


> 
>   paul
> 
> 
> 

Diane
-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db

RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Ali]

> Don't you need an IBM phone to go with it?


Mike,

Please do explain...

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small eclipse

[william degnan]

I have some nice DGterminal brochures, always wanted to see the real thing
in person

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Jay Jaeger  wrote:

> I have at least one D200 and a couple of 6053 terminals.  One of the
> D200 terminals and one of the 6053 terminals (also called a Dasher D2)
> each had one key that did not work last I checked.  I would guess that
> they suffer from a kind of "key rot" similar to Sol computers.
>
> OK.  NOW I GET IT.  Blue DG "E.T." head looking terminal.  Yeah, that
> would probably be a D200.
>
> JRJ
>
> On 9/22/2015 11:08 AM, Jay West wrote:
> > Jay Jaeger wrote...
> > 
> > ???  What do you mean by "blue dg et head looking terminal"  ???
> > 
> >
> > I'd bet that he's referring to the Data General Dasher D200 terminal.
> >
> > I have one:
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02/21058074082
> >
> > But perhaps a better picture:
> >
> http://maben.homeip.net/static/s100/data%20general/photos/DG%20dasher%20d200
> > %20front.jpg
> >
> > The D200 isn't always on ebay, but usually they show up mildly frequently
> > there and seem to go around $200 to $250.
> >
> > There was another common terminal on eclipse systems. I'm not sure if it
> was
> > in the Dasher series, but I believe it was called a "5821". I have one of
> > these as well.
> > http://www.museumwaalsdorp.nl/computer/images/GRP.jpg
> >
> > Lastly, a common combination system console (terminal)/printer that is
> VERY
> > cool looking was the Dasher TP1 and TP2. Mine is a TP1.
> > http://www.foxdata.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/IMG_0210.jpg
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Bill
vintagecomputer.net

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Jason T]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
> I've also still got my original THINK sign but
> you'd have to pry that from my cold dead fingers;
> has anyone ever made a replica? Shouldn't be too
> hard.

(What I assume are) NOS ones appear on ebay pretty regularly.  Not
always cheap and not always in English, but they're out there.

j

LA120 ROM & new member intro

[Brian Walenz]

Hi. The original ROM request showed up just before I started receiving
messages this morning, and I only got the tail end of the chatter.  Instead
of tacking a reply on to that, I thought I'd just start a new thread and
introduce myself at the same time.

Here's what I think is 23-038e4-00 from an LA120 (with a bad print head,
and dead pin drivers as well).  I couldn't find anything to compare it
against, and the adapter is new.  So it might be gibberish.  I did see, at
least, [A-Z] in the dump, so maybe it's good.

As for the introduction, I started life on the Apple II in fourth grade or
thereabouts, finally got a Commodore 128, then an Amiga, then jumped over
to UNIX (BSD mostly) and stuck there for years doing software.  After
funding stopped being an issue, I decided to get back to more interesting
and/or simple hardware, and electronics in general.  I seem to have
collected a rather complete HP86/87, under the illusion of using it for an
GPIB controller.  I'm now wrestling with an apparently dead PSU on a
MicroPDP (actually, I just now gave up on it), and am slowly fixing up a
PDP-8/a.  It has two CPU boards, one of which ignores the HALT
instruction.  From the schematics, I think it's one faulty 74ls chip, but I
haven't tried fixing it -- the machine has been down for cleaning/painting
for many months.  I just got it put back together this weekend.  I also
swapped out the fans for modern (quiet) 12v fans (driven off an isolated
power supply powered by the original 120 vac fan supply)...and now hear the
transformer buzzing away.  Win some, lose some.  Sigh.  Congrats on making
it to the end!

Cheers!

b

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Mike Stein]

As mentioned previously IBM made (or put their
name on) all sorts of things, including several
telephones; I've got one somewhere but like much 
of my junk no idea where at the moment.


I've also still got my original THINK sign but
you'd have to pry that from my cold dead fingers;
has anyone ever made a replica? Shouldn't be too
hard.

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Ali" 

To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts'" 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat
OT: Freighting Items



Don't you need an IBM phone to go with it?



Mike,

Please do explain...

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[ben]

On 9/22/2015 1:49 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 09/22/2015 12:36 PM, ben wrote:


PL/M in FORTRAN made CP/M possible.
That to me seems more important than Pascal in Fortran.


I think that's an overstatement.  There were plenty of 8-bit OS-es
written in assembly.  That Gary did the first version of CP/M using PL/M
was more a matter of convenience.


I can't think of OS's off hand but CP/M and Flex.
Mr Gates Basic does not count as OS.


In other words, CP/M (if you consider it to be an important innovation)
would have happened, PL/M or not.  I mean that it's not a lot of
code--development time would not have been much different.


True, but the Cross Assembler still would be FORTRAN.
The only hand coded machine would have been the APPLE I.


When DRI tried to foist PL/I on its developer community, that played out
much less successfully.


Only now I have money to play with small computers (FPGA 8 bit design)
not in the late 70's. I suspect the high cost of hardware left little
money left for software was true for every one back then.


--Chuck

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Diane Bruce]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 01:07:14PM -0700, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> > what an F77 programmer might recognize as FORTRAN.
> 
> Wouldn't an F77 programmer be looking for Fortran, not FORTRAN?
> 
> > But back in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN, 
> > including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".
> Ah, yes.  I remember WatFor

And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.
> 
> 
> > FORTRAN II in general was a free-for-all, varying between 
> > machines from the same manufacturer.
> 
> I hadn't been using FORTRAN long when I was thrown into PDQ FORTRAN.
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db

RE: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Rick Bensene]

Chuck wrote:
> 
> For those wondering about the notion of an "optimizing" assembler, one
> has to realize that 650 instructions were executed from a drum and were of
> the "1+1" addressing type.  Calculating the optimal address of the next
> instruction was very tedious and a perfect task for automatic optimization.
> 

Many moons ago I did some programming on a process control computer made by 3M.

The machine was a 24-bit word, bit-serial, transistorized machine with drum as 
main memory.  Each instruction contained both the operand address and the next 
instruction address (in block/track/sector numbers).  Depending on the timing 
of the instruction, the optimal address for the operand and next instruction 
were calculated based on offsets given in the instruction set summary.

There were no index registers on this machine, only a single accumulator 
register (implemented as a shift-register).   The only way you could do table 
operations or jumps based on evaluation of an expression was self-modifying 
code.  However, this was tricky, if you wanted the code to run as efficiently 
as possible (minimizing waiting for rotation of the drum), you had to do 
optimization calculations as part of the self-modifying code.   The other 
tricky part was the you had to be aware of track and sector numbers and 
properly deal with overflowing, e.g., max sector number was , IIRC, 30(octal) , 
so if you added 1 to the address, you'd have to clear the sector to zero, and 
add one to the track address, also being aware that the track number could 
overflow. 

I learned a lot from that old machine. 

Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Paul Koning]

> On Sep 22, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Diane Bruce  wrote:
> 
>> ...
>>> But back in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN, 
>>> including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".
>> Ah, yes.  I remember WatFor
> 
> And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.

Really?  "citation needed".

paul

Re: Some amount of DG goodness

[Ian S. King]

Nicely done!  I love that printing terminal design.  So retro

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Marc Verdiell 
wrote:

> Oh, that blue 1970's psychedelic color! The fast line printer! The vacuum
> column drive (drool)! And it is alive! Congratulations!
> Marc
>
>


-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jay Jaeger]

Reading the two referenced links leads me to a different conclusion:
FORTRAN would not do the job at all, so he started from scratch - almost
immediately.

"Anyway, it took him about a day to realize that he didn't want to do a
Fortran compiler at all. So he did this very simple language called B
and got it going on the PDP-7."

"After a rapidly scuttled attempt at Fortran, he created instead a
language of his own"

(and "rapidly scuttled seems to have been a day).

So I don't agree with the assertion that "'C' started out as a Fortran
compiler".  Not at all.

JRJ

On 9/22/2015 3:49 PM, Diane Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 04:35:24PM -0400, Paul Koning wrote:
>>
>>> On Sep 22, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Diane Bruce  wrote:
>>>
 ...
> But back in the 60's, every manufacturer had its own variety of FORTRAN, 
> including (IIRC), UNIVAC's own "FORTRAN V".
 Ah, yes.  I remember WatFor
>>>
>>> And Unix was no different, 'C' started out as a Fortran compiler.
>>
>> Really?  "citation needed".
> 
> http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/Mahoney/expotape.htm
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20030501014008/http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/chist.html
> 
> 
>>
>>  paul
>>
>>
>>
> 
> Diane
> 

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Mike Stein]

I don't remember which model mine is, but here are 
some links:


http://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-3345sl-cordless-phone-with-caller-id-call-waiting/specs/

http://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-3460-cordless-phone-with-caller-id-call-waiting/

http://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-900sp-cordless-phone-with-caller-id/

Pshaw; no IBM desk is complete without a THINK 
sign on it or on the wall behind it... ;-)


m

- Original Message - 
From: "Ali" 
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts'" 

Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat 
OT: Freighting Items



As mentioned previously IBM made (or put their 
name on) all sorts of
things, including several telephones; I've got 
one somewhere but like

much of my junk no idea where at the moment.


Mike,

I was actually hoping you had images or linkage to 
said phone. Unless you are talking about the IBM 
smart phone from 20 years ago?




I've also still got my original THINK sign but 
you'd have to pry that
from my cold dead fingers; has anyone ever made 
a replica? Shouldn't be

too hard.


These come up fairly often on ePay but I have yet 
to see one go for a reasonable price. I agree 
would be a cool accessory but as Fred pointed out 
they were not original to the desk.


-Ali

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[COURYHOUSE]

Ed reply - Jay - I  did all that  yeas ago... It did not   smoke  but  it  
also did not  do much  else.
LOOPBACK  to...   I need to  find  manuals and a  system tapes  probably.
 
Sure  looks  pretty  though  ( and better  with a  blue  et  head  terminal 
on top!)
 
 
I  wish I had  learned  more  about  DG   stuff.  I had some  folks   that 
had  helped   me  when I was starting out in the business   and  when DG  
stuff showed up or  a  local needed something usually I  turned  them  over  
to one of  my  friends. eventually  I  was  even handing of   DEC  deals  to  
friendly  people   and  just settled in on  the  HP stuff.
 
It  worked  well that  way  but  I  sure did  not learn much  abut  DG 
stuff!   
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2015 3:25:29 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:

ed   sez -Pretty  futile to restore  until I have manuals  and  a  load  
tape if
needed in front of  me. 

jay  sez- Not futile at all. Taking it apart, cleaning it up, replacing  
anything
obviously bad, checking out the power supply all things you  can likely
do without a manual. You could go a little further than that  just by asking
a few questions here; folks are glad to help! Think of all  the great stuff
you'd learn along the way!! You'd find manuals and tapes at  some point I'm
sure!

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[COURYHOUSE]

probably an artifact   generated by my migraine this   evening .
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2015 8:39:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
ci...@xenosoft.com writes:

On Tue,  22 Sep 2015, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> I  see you have one of  those  small reel tape  drives   also like  we   
do 
> in our  s20...  what is the interface on   them?   what  BPI ?  who 
actually 
> made   them?

rather off-topic: is your space bar sticking?  Seems  like a lot of 
keybounce.

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[Fred Cisin]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
I  see you have one of those  small reel tape  drives   also like  we  do 
in our  s20...  what is the interface on  them?   what  BPI ?  who actually 
madethem?


rather off-topic: is your space bar sticking?  Seems like a lot of 
keybounce.

Fwd: [midatlanticretro] Announcement

[Matt Patoray]

This was posted on another list, I thought that others on this list would be 
interested.

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Dave McGuire mcgu...@neurotica.com [midatlanticretro]" 
> 
> Date: September 22, 2015 at 10:44:52 PM EDT
> To: "midatlanticre...@yahoogroups.com" 
> Subject: [midatlanticretro] Announcement
> Reply-To: midatlanticre...@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> Some of you are aware that I've been pursuing a long-term project of
> constructing a museum in the Pittsburgh area.
> 
> I am proud to announce that we have hit a major milestone: We have
> set a date for the first public opening. The Large Scale Systems
> Museum will open its doors to the public on Saturday, October 17th,
> just under one month from now.
> 
> This is to be a one-day provisional opening coinciding with an event
> here in town. We may decide to open the museum regularly on a sparse
> schedule afterward, or it may wait awhile, depending on how things go
> on the 17th. The renovation work is ongoing, so it won't be perfect,
> but we think it'll be good. A great deal of progress has been made
> here in the past several months.
> 
> Many of the Really Big Computers here will be running and
> demonstrated on a rotation throughout the day.
> 
> The event in town is a large "block party" of sorts that will
> encompass much of the downtown area. A few highlights:
> 
> - A fancy department store that was located on this block decades
> ago will re-open in their old store location to show off vintage
> wedding gowns, and some people who purchased their gowns there in the
> past will bring them back to show them off.
> 
> - A local winery will set up a wine tasting.
> 
> - A soldering workshop.
> 
> - A makerspace pop-up.
> 
> - A beer garden!
> 
> - The standard fare of food vendors, live bands, etc.
> 
> There are two other "Big Deal" tie-ins that I'd like to announce:
> 
> Big Deal #1: Many of you will remember my fiancee Autumn, who sold
> handmade vintage-computer-themed soaps at the most recent VCF-East.
> Her company, Apothecary Soap Company, will be opening its first store,
> here in town around the corner from our main building.
> 
> Big Deal #2: While the details aren't yet finalized, C/PMuseum in
> downtown Pittsburgh, curated by Corey Little and Chris Little, will be
> relocating many of its exhibits, including some vintage game consoles,
> to a temporary exhibit space just a few buildings down from mine.
> Since C/PMuseum's primary focus is on microcomputers and the Large
> Scale Systems Museum's primary focus is on minicomputers and
> mainframes, so together we'll have great coverage of a range of genres.
> 
> My building is at 924 4th Avenue, New Kensington, PA 15068, right in
> the middle of the block party area. New Kensington is about ten
> minutes' drive from the Allegheny Valley exit of the Pennsylvania
> Turnpike, Exit 48. It's a very easy area to reach, and there are a
> number of decent hotels nearby.
> 
> I wish to extend an invitation to all of you to attend this event.
> It's on Saturday, October 17th, from noon to 8PM.
> 
> Please feel free to forward this message to anyone whom you think
> might be interested.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Dave
> 
> - -- 
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: Dave McGuire 
> Reply via web post•   Reply to sender •   Reply to group  •   
> Start a New Topic   •   Messages in this topic (1)
> VISIT YOUR GROUP New Members 1
> • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use 
> .
>  
> 
> __,_._,___

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[ben]

On 9/22/2015 7:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:


So, B was never actually a FORTRAN compiler, just Ken started thinking
about FORTRAN grammar and within one DAY took off in a different
direction.   By that time (1969 or so) FORTRAN was a really old
language, and considered way out of date by most universities' Comp Sci
departments.


Until you needed compled err complex numbers.


Jon


Ben.

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jay Jaeger]

On 9/22/2015 9:25 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 09/22/2015 07:11 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
> 
> We've been here before and I don't care to chew already masticated cud.
>  Suffice it to say, that I've never seen a C for a non-binary,
> variable-word-length machine using 6-bit characters.  I've seen plenty
> of FORTRANs for such an architecture, however.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> 

That is just because they are so old that, aside from collectors or
those interested in a particular old machine, nobody ever *bothered*.
By the time C came along, those machines were well on their way to their
eventual demise.

I am 100% certain, for example, that it would be possible to come up
with a C compiler for a 40K IBM 1410, which is in the set you describe.
 But even I, as one of the few denizens that are "into" that particular
machine, would not bother with a C compiler for it.

JRJ

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Sean Caron]

Ah, sorry, I misspoke; CBX 8000, not a CBX II :O

Best,

Sean


On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 5:52 PM, Sean Caron  wrote:

> I got a ROLM CBX II but I suppose that's pre-IBM-acquisition :O
>
> Best,
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Ali  wrote:
>
>> > Don't you need an IBM phone to go with it?
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Please do explain...
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: LA120 ROM & new member intro

[Paul Anderson]

Hi Brian,

WELCOME!!

What is the part number of the dead power supply you gave up on?

What other DEC items do you have?

Where are you located?

Thanks, Paul

Re: Query for dec teleprinter roms

[Al Kossow]

On 9/21/15 8:02 PM, Jonathan Gevaryahu wrote:


The direct prompt of this request was the desire to get one or more of the dot 
matrix teleprinters running in MAME/MESS, the progress of which can be seen at
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mess/drivers/decwritr.c , with 
the LA120, but the ROMs I have right know for the LA120 fail their built-in 
checksum test, so I'm stuck at a development
impasse until I can get some more roms to work with (or correctly re-dumped 
copies of the existing roms).



I just uploaded the user, tech and IPB manuals for the LA120 to bitsavers.
The mirrors should pick them up tonight.

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Sean Caron]

LOL ... poor woman ... I could only imagine getting all excited that I was
gonna get a Sun workstation (especially back in the day when that counted
for something a bit above the pale...) and then opening the box and it's
just furniture!! Oh no!!

Best,

Sean


On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Ali wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/878/retro-scan-of-the-week-the-official-ibm-pc-desk
>>
>
> I likde those.
>
> I gave three of those to the college for use as classroom machines.
>
> I had gotten them for next to nothing, because they were sized for 5150,
> not 5170.  I made spacers to raise the top panel to fit a thicker machine,
> and put much larger casters on them, for door thresholds, a tiled hallway,
> and the inevitability that they would be rolled over cords.
>
> With a relatively small monitor on top, it provided a comfortaqble podium
> and computer table for teachers to use while lecturing.
>
>
> A few years later, our department chair at the time (PhD from UCBerkeley)
> came running into the lab, squealing, "WE'RE GETTING SUNS!" WE'RE GETTING
> SUNS!"  She had been informed that at the loading dock, there were three
> "Multimedia Workstations" for us.  NO, we never got any Suns.  The
> "multimedia workstations" turned out to be open 3x6 foot computer desks on
> casters.  THOSE were to be our new classroom computer tables!  too deep,
> too wide, not tall enough to use while standing, . . .  They chucked the
> IBM workstations that I had given them (three just like yours) into
> dumpsters.  Why did I even bother?
>
> One of their new classroom/demo machine tables had big rubber wheels, that
> wouldn't turn easily.  They were almost ready to junk it, because their
> "support staff" didn't know that pneumatic wheels needed to be inflated. I
> pumped them up.
>
>
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
>

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jay Jaeger]

On 9/22/2015 11:22 PM, ben wrote:
> On 9/22/2015 10:08 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
>> On 9/22/2015 10:44 PM, ben wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/22/2015 7:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>>
 So, B was never actually a FORTRAN compiler, just Ken started thinking
 about FORTRAN grammar and within one DAY took off in a different
 direction.   By that time (1969 or so) FORTRAN was a really old
 language, and considered way out of date by most universities' Comp Sci
 departments.
>>>
>>> Until you needed compled err complex numbers.
>>>
>>> Ben.
>>>
>>
>> Huh?
> 
> Often real problems need complex numbers. Comp Sci often ignores real life
> problems. Ben.
> 
> 
> 

What confused me is what was meant by "compled err".  Say what?   Huh?

Anyway, I addressed in another response just how trivial it would be to
define a complex number as a C "struct", and write a set of routines for
the necessary manipulations (arithmetic operators,
input/output/transformation from and to strings, etc).  In C++ one could
even overload the normal arithmetic operators for that.  Not an issue at
all.

Indeed a definition and set of routines to do the computational part of
a "complex" data type exists in the book "Numerical Recipes in C".
Takes all of 3 pages.

JRJ

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[COURYHOUSE]

Jay looking at  -  your flicker  page  I would   say  you have a mountain 
of it! 
 
I  see you have one of those  small reel tape  drives   also like  we  do 
in our  s20...  what is the interface on  them?   what  BPI ?  who actually 
madethem?
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2015 3:25:29 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:


Jay sez - Not sure what you're driving at there, but when  I'm done... all 
I will have
is one lonely rack :) Nothing wrong with  that!
Not to mention, there's the "classiccmp law of attraction". Basically  if 
you
get just part of a machine, the rest will suddenly start appearing  :)

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Jay Jaeger]

On 9/22/2015 10:44 PM, ben wrote:

> On 9/22/2015 7:31 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> 
>> So, B was never actually a FORTRAN compiler, just Ken started thinking
>> about FORTRAN grammar and within one DAY took off in a different
>> direction.   By that time (1969 or so) FORTRAN was a really old
>> language, and considered way out of date by most universities' Comp Sci
>> departments.
> 
> Until you needed compled err complex numbers.
> 
> Ben.
> 

Huh?

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Chuck Guzis]

On 09/22/2015 01:27 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:


I mixed up 77 and 90. Although I was assigned to TEACH F77 in the
early 1980s, I was no longer using FORTRAN.   WHAT?? You can input
and output without FORMAT??!?


You'd probably enjoy F90 even less.

--Chuck

Re: Structured Fortran - was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus

[Chuck Guzis]

On 09/22/2015 01:35 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:


There were no index registers on this machine, only a single
accumulator register (implemented as a shift-register).


Not that uncommon, really. It was only Model II of the 1620 that had 
index registers; the CADET didn't.  No accumulator either--just a simple 
2-address architecture.It did have (optional) indirect addressing, 
however, which was a godsend if you had it.  Otherwise, you really did 
have to plug instructions.


But even the 650 had a TLU instruction...

--Chuck

Core memory and OS/8

[Charles]

One of the reasons I bought Vince's 32K SRAM board for my 8/A is because I 
was having flakiness with my "real" core boards (two 16K and one 8K).


Now that OS/8 is running again, and my RL8A and two RL02's are as debugged 
as they're going to get, I decided to experiment with the old core.
Put them back in the chassis and... the two 16K boards are now working 
perfectly. I ran it for two long passes with DHKMAD (checkerboard 
diagnostic) with no errors!


What's strange, though, is that OS/8 won't boot unless both 16K boards are 
in the backplane. Then it does boot and a MEM shows "32K MEMORY!" as 
expected.

Won't boot with 16K or 24K of boards, either.

I thought that only 12K was mandatory (at least that's what the Device 
Extensions manual says for an RL01). Or is that something that's set up 
during BUILD?... I don't see anything in the OS/8 manual and I know I had 
OS/8 running with 16K and 24K previously.


-Charles

RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...

[Jay West]

Ed wrote...

Pretty  futile to restore  until I have manuals  and a  load  tape if
needed in front of  me. 

Not futile at all. Taking it apart, cleaning it up, replacing anything
obviously bad, checking out the power supply all things you can likely
do without a manual. You could go a little further than that just by asking
a few questions here; folks are glad to help! Think of all the great stuff
you'd learn along the way!! You'd find manuals and tapes at some point I'm
sure!
 

Unlike  you Jay  that has a 'mountain'  of  DG stuff in  front of  you  to
*wicker basket  something together  from... all I have is this one lonely
rack!

Not sure what you're driving at there, but when I'm done... all I will have
is one lonely rack :) Nothing wrong with that!
Not to mention, there's the "classiccmp law of attraction". Basically if you
get just part of a machine, the rest will suddenly start appearing :)


BUT!   I  figure   DG  sould have   some sort of representation here... and
if it   attracts MORE  DG  so  be it!Least  case it  needs  a terminal to
display with it and ... yes... A POSTER!

Awesome. What minicomputer systems do you have on public display besides the
DG? I'm glad to see more DG representation of course :)


This month's  'make  computer  work ' project  is  HP-3000  related. 

I'm a bit of an HP fan ;) What's cooking 3K-related?

J
 
 
 

Re: Are we different?

[Eric Christopherson]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015, Murray McCullough wrote:
> I was reading an article in Maximum PC, Nov. 2015, p.82 that got my
> attention. It said: “When the lower orders knew their place?” I wonder
> if he means users of vintage computers? Just asking!

I wouldn't conclude that, but then I have no idea what the context is.

> 
> Happy computing.
> 
> Murray  :)

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Fred Cisin]

I've also still got my original THINK sign but
you'd have to pry that from my cold dead fingers;
has anyone ever made a replica? Shouldn't be too
hard.


Since these desks did not have one originally, there is no need for 
authenticitiy.  Any engraving shop should be able to make you a small 
brass plaque.

RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Ali]

> I gave three of those to the college for use as classroom machines.
> 
> I had gotten them for next to nothing,

Fred,

They are a bit harder to find but still relatively cheap. This is the third
or fourth one I've run across. One, in Orange county, got trashed before I
could get to it. Of the others they were all in other states and this was
the only one willing to try shipping. In fact if anyone is interested there
is one listed here: http://denver.craigslist.org/for/5153027997.html in the
Denver area. Seems a bit worse for wear and is apparently missing the
original keys but that should be an easy fix.

>put much larger casters on them, for door thresholds, a
> tiled hallway, and the inevitability that they would be rolled over
> cords.

That may be a good upgrade. Although, I don't plan moving mine much once I
get it in place.

> 
> With a relatively small monitor on top, it provided a comfortaqble
> podium and computer table for teachers to use while lecturing.

I will admit though it is smaller than I would have thought. The pictures in
the ad makes the cart look bigger. At best it is about waist high. However,
it does fit the 515x series of computers and accessories nicely.

> 
> 
> A few years later, our department chair at the time (PhD from
> UCBerkeley)
> came running into the lab, squealing, "WE'RE GETTING SUNS!" WE'RE
> GETTING
> SUNS!"  She had been informed that at the loading dock, there were
> three
> "Multimedia Workstations" for us.  NO, we never got any Suns.  The
> "multimedia workstations" turned out to be open 3x6 foot computer desks
> on
> casters.  THOSE were to be our new classroom computer tables!  too
> deep,
> too wide, not tall enough to use while standing, . . .  They chucked
> the
> IBM workstations that I had given them (three just like yours) into
> dumpsters.  Why did I even bother?
> 
> One of their new classroom/demo machine tables had big rubber wheels,
> that
> wouldn't turn easily.  They were almost ready to junk it, because their
> "support staff" didn't know that pneumatic wheels needed to be
> inflated.
> I pumped them up.
> 
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred   ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Calcomp 1039 plotter docs?

[simon]

ist an 6800L and in this machine it is a gold capped case.

On 21-09-15 18:01, Erik Baigar wrote:

Jon Elson  hat am 21. September 2015 um 17:47
geschrieben:
Hmm, that sounds like my 1076C. One board had a 68000 that
ran the plotter servos, the other was the "plot manager"
that had a big RAM buffer and sorted the plot vectors for
optimum speed. I think it mostly communicated with the host
computer and plotter main board by serial. Both boards had
68K processors.


Well, the 103x really had the 68xx, not the 68xxx. I think it was a 6802, but
not sure now...



--
Met vriendelijke Groet,

Simon Claessen
drukknop.nl

Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small eclipse

[Jay Jaeger]

???  What do you mean by "blue dg et head looking terminal"  ???

On 9/21/2015 8:39 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> would like to find  blue dg et head  looking terminal to go with  small 
> eclipse 
> this  thing is a beauty and has a tiny side by  side reel   to reel deck
>  
> just  would be nice to have a terminal to  display with it   in the museum.
> drop us a line  offlinst...
> ed sharpe archivist for   smecc
> 

Re: PDP-11 Overlays

[Paul Koning]

> On Sep 21, 2015, at 9:42 PM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> ...
> Right. In a way you could say that in RSTS/E you pick the best solution for 
> the job. No need to tie yourself one way or the other. I wonder, did anyone 
> ever write a Unix RTS for RSTS/E? It should be doable...

Not that I know of, but one of my RSTS/E development colleagues used DECUS C to 
create a csh runtime system -- in other words, make that shell be a command 
handler on RSTS.  Unfortunately that code has been lost; I'd love to have it.  
I'm pretty sure he started with at least a subset port of libc.

paul

RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Ali]

> Huh, interesting ... I bet that thing is built like an old Steelcase!
> Looks heavy :O

Sean,

It is built pretty well. Think late 1970s early 1980s furniture. It has heavy 
metal supports w/ casters built in but the "wood" is plywood - mind you not the 
cheap light stuff from today but certainly not solid oak. It was designed for 
use by businesses as a cheap and mobile cubicle. You can see an ad for it here: 

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/878/retro-scan-of-the-week-the-official-ibm-pc-desk

It weighed unpacked about 100 pounds. Once fully loaded (monitor, system, 
keyboard, manuals, printer and printer paper) though I think it will tip the 
scale at over 200 pounds easy.

I am not sure how many different desks IBM made. This is the only one I have 
seen my old IBM catalogs. However, I know there were at least two other IBM 
Synergetix branded desks: a tri-level and a bi-level desk w/ moving platforms. 
I own the tri-level desk as well. The bi-level was supposedly for the Atlanta 
Olympics and is made of plastic.

-Ali

Re: Query for dec teleprinter roms

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Mike Stein

> I don't think I can scan the print set; IIRC the pages were longer
> than 14".

How much longer? My A3 scanner will take up to 17". I'd be happy to scan them
for you (and return them afterwards) if you send them to me.

(BTW, this offer is open to everyone/anyone - although if I get 23 sets of
prints, please don't expect instant service! Please contact me first.)

Noel

Re: Multi-platform distribution format (Was: Backups [was

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-09-22 06:58, tony duell wrote:

HOWEVER, while the PDP-11 is still unable to perform an
LLF on an RX50 when an RQDX3 is present, it is possible
to perform an LLF on a floppy in an RX33.  Does that still
seem compatible with your explanation?


Yes, that confused me too. The RQDX3 is clearly capable of
LLFing a floppy. So either (unlikely) DEC specifically do
not allow the right set of commands to LLF an RX50 or
(more likely) that bit of software you have doesn't do it
(although others can) possibly so as not to cut into DEC's
sales of pre-formatted disks.

Sorry I don't know more, the RQDXs are too modern for me.


I don't know for sure, but I really think it's the RQDX3 that explicitly 
refuses to format the RX50.


If I just had an RX33 I could easily test this, as I can easily patch 
the RSX FMT program to treat an RX50 as an RX33...


Johnny

Re: Query for dec teleprinter roms

[Mike Stein]

I'll certainly keep you in mind, thanks!

Now I just have to find 'em...

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Noel Chiappa" 

To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Query for dec teleprinter roms



   > From: Mike Stein

   > I don't think I can scan the print set; 
IIRC the pages were longer

   > than 14".

How much longer? My A3 scanner will take up to 
17". I'd be happy to scan them
for you (and return them afterwards) if you send 
them to me.


(BTW, this offer is open to everyone/anyone - 
although if I get 23 sets of
prints, please don't expect instant service! 
Please contact me first.)


Noel 

RE: The desk has arrived - WAS: Somewhat OT: Freighting Items

[Fred Cisin]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Ali wrote:

http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/878/retro-scan-of-the-week-the-official-ibm-pc-desk


I likde those.

I gave three of those to the college for use as classroom machines.

I had gotten them for next to nothing, because they were sized for 5150, 
not 5170.  I made spacers to raise the top panel to fit a thicker machine, 
and put much larger casters on them, for door thresholds, a tiled hallway, 
and the inevitability that they would be rolled over cords.


With a relatively small monitor on top, it provided a comfortaqble podium 
and computer table for teachers to use while lecturing.



A few years later, our department chair at the time (PhD from UCBerkeley) 
came running into the lab, squealing, "WE'RE GETTING SUNS!" WE'RE GETTING 
SUNS!"  She had been informed that at the loading dock, there were three 
"Multimedia Workstations" for us.  NO, we never got any Suns.  The 
"multimedia workstations" turned out to be open 3x6 foot computer desks on 
casters.  THOSE were to be our new classroom computer tables!  too deep, 
too wide, not tall enough to use while standing, . . .  They chucked the 
IBM workstations that I had given them (three just like yours) into 
dumpsters.  Why did I even bother?


One of their new classroom/demo machine tables had big rubber wheels, that 
wouldn't turn easily.  They were almost ready to junk it, because their 
"support staff" didn't know that pneumatic wheels needed to be inflated. 
I pumped them up.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com