Re: Current source for RX50 media?

[Warner Losh]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> My usual 5.25" drive (I have several) is the Teac FD55GFR - strapped
> for RX33 use with DEC controllers or strapped slightly differently for
> PC use (I know the directions are floating around)

The RX-50 is a 80-track version of the 360k IBM-PC 40 track floppies.
It was formatted at 10 sectors per track with smaller inter-sector padding
bytes than normal. It uses the same rotation rate and data transfer rate
as the older drive, which is different than the AT formatted floppies
use.

So RX-50's use 250k transfer rate, 80 tracks, usually 1 side (though
the controller supports 2 sides, the physical RX-50's don't). 512 byte
sectors. 16 bytes between sectors (as opposed to either 35 or 42
for IBM-PC floppies) with 46 bytes format gap (as opposed to 80
for IBM-PC floppies). This is how you got 400k out of a single sided
80 tracked disk. IIRC, the rotation rate is 300 for RX-50 and old
IBM-PC vs 350 for the IBM-AT drive. All these niggling differences
cause problems...

> I'll look deeper into those issues when we find some media.

One thing to avoid is disks with hub-rings. On the Rainbow they
caused nothing but grief. You might not be able to at this late date,
but if you have a choice.

Something like

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BOX-OF-10-MAXELL-MD1-DD-SINGLE-SIDED-DOUBLE-DENSITY-5-1-4-FLOPPY-DISKS/131848023428

may work. These are single sided double density but list 96tpi, which
means they will go to 80 tracks easily and should be able to
be formatted in the Rainbow for use on the PDP-11. The 11's
controller, like I said, won't format.

Hope this helps.

Warner

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Fritz Mueller]

Thanks much for all the info and help, folks!

I'll see about tracking one of the programmers mentioned.  I'd like to 
have one around in case I run into more parts like these.  Was helping a 
friend with an old arcade game last weekend, and it had a few parts like 
these as well.


--FritzM.

Re: Current source for RX50 media?

[Warner Losh]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
>>> 2) It's been too long so I don't remember, but don't you use normal pc
>>> floppies (5.25) and PUTR can format them?
>
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>
>> Yes, but you need the right type of PC floppy because RX50 are
>> single-sided and 80 tpi and 10 sectors-per-track (400K on one side).
>> I'm sure there are FAQs and instructions all over about the process...
>> I just don't recall off the top of my head which keywords to shop for
>> that are merely good enough for TRS-80s and C-64s and which will do
>> for RX50s.  Single Sided Single Density will not cut it, not that uber
>> cheap floppies abound these days (Elephant?  BASF?  Only if you like
>> cleaning your heads between each diskette).
>
>
> That would be 80 TRACKS at 96 tracks per inch.
>
> Those would be the 300 Oersted disks, same diskettes as "360K".
> Do NOT use the 600 Oersted "1.2M"/"HD" disks.
>
> Being Single Sided, it really won't hurt to use just the first side of a
> Double Sided disk.

Single vs double sided doesn't matter.

> 80 track V 40 track both call for the same chemistry of the coating, but you
> should probably bulk erase whatever you get.

40 track raw media sucks in an RX-50 drive.

> If you use a PC to format them, the requirements are essentially the same as
> for a "720K" 5.25".  Formatting can not be done with a "360K" (40 track)
> drive, but can be done with a 1.2M drive, or with a 720K 5.25" (which aren't
> common in the PC world).
> There are a couple of potential complications to using a 1.2M drive, that
> can be gotten around in software.
> (96tpi track spacing,
> same write current, rotational speed and data transfer rate as for 360K)

The controller for the PDP-11 can't format them. The Rainbow can format
them w/o problems. You won't be able to use PC formatted 5.25" drives.
The IBM AT 1.2MB floppies can be reformatted and perform adequately,
but it's much better to use the proper quad density disks. By "adequately"
I mean "in a pinch until you can get something better because the data
is at risk" Some of the disks I used back in the day worked OK, while
others didn't work so well.

> We all have our favorite and hated brands.
> Ones you buy now, would likely be used or New stale stock, but that probably
> won't be a problem if they were stored well.

Yea, I haven't bought new media in 15 years. My old stuff still works
well enough...

Warner

Re: Current source for RX50 media?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 12:13 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
>>> 2) It's been too long so I don't remember, but don't you use normal pc
>>> floppies (5.25) and PUTR can format them?
> That would be 80 TRACKS at 96 tracks per inch.

Right... 96tpi. Thanks.

> Those would be the 300 Oersted disks, same diskettes as "360K".
> Do NOT use the 600 Oersted "1.2M"/"HD" disks.

OK.  That's what I kind of remembered but didn't want to quote from
memory.  Personally, I've always had a stack of DEC RX50s, but I don't
think my friend will easily find them these days.

> Being Single Sided, it really won't hurt to use just the first side of a
> Double Sided disk.

Of course.

> 80 track V 40 track both call for the same chemistry of the coating, but you
> should probably bulk erase whatever you get.

Right.  Easy enough to do.

> If you use a PC to format them, the requirements are essentially the same as
> for a "720K" 5.25".  Formatting can not be done with a "360K" (40 track)
> drive, but can be done with a 1.2M drive, or with a 720K 5.25" (which aren't
> common in the PC world).

My usual 5.25" drive (I have several) is the Teac FD55GFR - strapped
for RX33 use with DEC controllers or strapped slightly differently for
PC use (I know the directions are floating around)

> There are a couple of potential complications to using a 1.2M drive, that
> can be gotten around in software.
> (96tpi track spacing,
> same write current, rotational speed and data transfer rate as for 360K)

I'll look deeper into those issues when we find some media.

> We all have our favorite and hated brands.
> Ones you buy now, would likely be used or New stale stock, but that probably
> won't be a problem if they were stored well.

Right... outside of eBay, the question is where to find them, now that
the particulars have been pulled out.

-ethan

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Glen Slick]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> In bringing up and debugging my PDP 11/45, I found that one of my GRA
> (M8101) spares has a failed ALU subsidiary ROM.  It's a pretty standard
> little 32x8 ROM in a 16-pin DIP, and the truth table is in the 11/45 print
> set.
>

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1145/1145_System_Engineering_Drawings_Jun74.pdf

If you are talking about he ALU CNTL ROM on page 40 of the PDF and the
truth table for it listed on page 48 of the PDF the part is listed as
DM8598-AD, where a DM8598 is a 256-bit (32x8) tri-state bipolar mask
ROM.

Some substitute T.S. PROMs include the Signetics 82S123, AMD 27S19,
National DM74S288.

My BP Microsystems programmers support the 82S123 and 27S19, but maybe
not the DM74S288.

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Pete Lancashire]

Rather have a C Itoh CT-101e .. knew one of the developers, F/W was
done in the US I can no longer remember the key combination but the
terminal would let you know who did it

Anyone wants to gain a cubic foot or two let me know

-pete

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Adrian Graham
 wrote:
> On 25/06/2016 01:15, "Mark J. Blair"  wrote:
>
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2016, at 17:07 , Adrian Graham 
>>> wrote:
>>> Still up for grabs if you bring enough people to Newmarket, UK, formerly of
>>> Europe.
>>
>> Maybe after I fit pontoons to my pickup truck! :D
>
> Bring some VT100s with you and you've got a deal!
>
> (I wish I wasn't joking)
>
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
>
>
>

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[alexmcwhirter]

Any 64 bit sun stuff in there? I would be interested in those. But from 
the sounds of things it's an older collection, so probably not.

Re: Wanted: Ann Arbor Ambassador terminal

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Richard Loken  wrote:
> 
> I have an Ann Arbor Ambassador here with the original owner's manual.
> It has been sitting on my shelf for 15 years or so, I must say the
> always evil, "It worked when I put it on the shelf" and I am not about
> to open a can of worms by plugging it in.

It is guaranteed to need a re-capping of the power supply.  This I know from 
experience.

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Jun-24, at 7:41 PM, Fritz Mueller wrote:
> On 06/24/2016 06:28 PM, Don North wrote:
>> Almost 100% certainty the part already there is a small bipolar TTL PROM. 
>> What would you think it otherwise might be?
>> 
>> For a lot of these logic replacement applications DEC used the open 
>> collector version, but it might be tristate variation. Check schematic.
>> 
>> Also, the microcycle on the 11/45 (and 11/70 for that matter, basically the 
>> same design) is 150ns, not 30ns.
>> 
>> There are various clock timing pulses (tp1, tp2, etc) but the datapath / 
>> control unit microcycle is 150ns.

> Thanks for the info, Don -- learning a lot about this stuff as I go...
> 
> I had wondered if the part might have been a mask ROM rather than a PROM.  
> And wrt. timing, I was certainly mistaken to call the nominal interval 
> between the clock pulses a microcycle.
> 
> So after staring at the flows and prints a little more closely, it looks to 
> me now like the IR will be latched at FET.10 t6 (which is really IRD.00 t1?) 
> then there is the rest of intervening IRD.00 during which time control 
> signals can propagate to and through decode logic and the subsidiary ROM and 
> ALU, then the ALU results are latched into the shifter at EXC.80 t2 or EXC.90 
> t2.  So that's a solid 150ns there minimally?

Many/most of the common bipolar fusible proms are Schottky class, so are quite 
fast.
Take a look at  74S188 / 74S288 as a starting point. Down in the 20-30ns range.


> From the prints, it looks like this is an open-collector part -- I don't see 
> it called out, but the chip select is wired active and I can't see that the 
> outputs have any other drivers.

Are there pull-up resistors anywhere along the output/data lines? If not, it is 
more likely a tri-state device.


> So that's good news for repairing my board!  Which brings on the next 
> question: do folks here have a recommendation for a good programmer to try 
> and track down on eBay for programming these sorts of parts?

Probably more than you want to bother with, but blowing fusible proms generally 
isn't all that difficult, I've hacked a burner on a breadboard with an RPi 
(substitute other microcontroller as desired), 2-3 common TTL ICs and a few 
transistors.

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Jon Elson]

On 06/24/2016 06:36 PM, Fritz Mueller wrote:

Hi All,

In bringing up and debugging my PDP 11/45, I found that 
one of my GRA (M8101) spares has a failed ALU subsidiary 
ROM.  It's a pretty standard little 32x8 ROM in a 16-pin 
DIP, and the truth table is in the 11/45 print set.


I wonder what the replacement options are for parts like 
these? In particular, given the 30ns micro-cycle on the 
KB11-A, and the fact that the propagation time for the ALU 
downstream of this is roughly 20ns on its own, I'd be 
worried that an off-the-shelf bipolar PROM might be too 
slow here.


I'm still a little slow on reading the microcode flows, so 
its not clear to me exactly how many micro-cycles there 
are on the critical path for the E-class instructions 
where this ROM is used.  Maybe its not an issue.


Anybody every try replacing one of these with a bipolar 
PROM?  Any other suggestions for how to repair parts like 
these?


Well, you could use a scope to find out what the good ROMS 
do for access time.


Jon

contemplating selling my VT52

[rescue]

I've been saving the VT52 I've owned for years (used it with a modem 
back in the late 80s to dial into school) with the thought of paring it 
up with a PDP-8/E, PDP-8/F, or PDP-8/M  but I don't know that the 
PDP-8 train will ever stop here.  I've come close a couple of times, but 
have either missed the train on a good deal, or not been in a position 
to stomach the pricing some of them fetch.


So, I'm contemplating selling the VT-52.  It has age typical wear, but 
last time it was powered on, it was working.  There was a touchy 
connection that would act up once in a while requiring a tap on the side 
to bring it back around (something in the video connection no doubt).  I 
never dug into it to resolve it 100%, as it didn't happen often, and a 
'love tap' on the right side always brought it around.


I'd like to hang onto it, but it is big.

I'm entertaining offers which might sway my decision to keep/sell it.  
I'm located close to the intersection of Sharon, Easton, and Stoughton, 
MA.
I don't think shipping is an option, unless your willing to pay, and 
take the risk on something like this being transported.  If I can get a 
big enough box, I can pack it well but I'd prefer not to do it due 
to the risks involved.


Keep VT52 in the subject line of any e-mail you send so I can find it 
easier.  Sometimes I may only check mail here once a week, so if you are 
inquiring and don't hear from me for a while, no fear, I'll get around 
to you.


-- Curt

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Al Kossow]

On 6/24/16 7:42 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:

> A Data-I/O 29A or 29B will do the job nicely.
> 

and a Unipak I or II like this
www.ebay.com/itm/301995688339

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Josh Dersch]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:

> Thanks for the info, Don -- learning a lot about this stuff as I go...
>
> I had wondered if the part might have been a mask ROM rather than a PROM.
> And wrt. timing, I was certainly mistaken to call the nominal interval
> between the clock pulses a microcycle.
>
> So after staring at the flows and prints a little more closely, it looks
> to me now like the IR will be latched at FET.10 t6 (which is really IRD.00
> t1?) then there is the rest of intervening IRD.00 during which time control
> signals can propagate to and through decode logic and the subsidiary ROM
> and ALU, then the ALU results are latched into the shifter at EXC.80 t2 or
> EXC.90 t2.  So that's a solid 150ns there minimally?
>
> From the prints, it looks like this is an open-collector part -- I don't
> see it called out, but the chip select is wired active and I can't see that
> the outputs have any other drivers.
>
> So that's good news for repairing my board!  Which brings on the next
> question: do folks here have a recommendation for a good programmer to try
> and track down on eBay for programming these sorts of parts?
>

A Data-I/O 29A or 29B will do the job nicely.

- Josh



>
> cheers,
> --FritzM.
>
>
>
> On 06/24/2016 06:28 PM, Don North wrote:
>
>> Almost 100% certainty the part already there is a small bipolar TTL PROM.
>> What would you think it otherwise might be?
>>
>> For a lot of these logic replacement applications DEC used the open
>> collector version, but it might be tristate variation. Check schematic.
>>
>> Also, the microcycle on the 11/45 (and 11/70 for that matter, basically
>> the same design) is 150ns, not 30ns.
>>
>> There are various clock timing pulses (tp1, tp2, etc) but the datapath /
>> control unit microcycle is 150ns.
>>
>
>

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Eric Christopherson]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016, Jerry Kemp wrote:
> Any more details on those AT terminals?
> 
> I could use an AT 605 terminal for the 3b2 I hope to someday acquire,
> obviously after Seth gets all he needs.  :)
> 
> Jerry

Any ADM-3As?

> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 06/24/16 12:24 PM, Todd Killingsworth wrote:
> >Seth, cont.  ... and be careful what you wish for.  I think that he may
> >have a full 6'x6'x6' pallet of AT terminals for you :)
> >
> >TK
> >
> >On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Todd Killingsworth <
> >killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Seth - I specifically asked about 3B2 boxes when I saw the AT
> >>terminals.  Unfortunately, the guy has already cleared them out of his
> >>warehouse.
> >>
> >>Todd Killingsworth
> >>
> >>On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Seth Morabito  wrote:
> >>
> 
> >>>I call dibs on any and all AT terminals and 3B2 stuff! :^)
> >>>
> >>>-Seth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Fritz Mueller]

Thanks for the info, Don -- learning a lot about this stuff as I go...

I had wondered if the part might have been a mask ROM rather than a 
PROM.  And wrt. timing, I was certainly mistaken to call the nominal 
interval between the clock pulses a microcycle.


So after staring at the flows and prints a little more closely, it looks 
to me now like the IR will be latched at FET.10 t6 (which is really 
IRD.00 t1?) then there is the rest of intervening IRD.00 during which 
time control signals can propagate to and through decode logic and the 
subsidiary ROM and ALU, then the ALU results are latched into the 
shifter at EXC.80 t2 or EXC.90 t2.  So that's a solid 150ns there minimally?


From the prints, it looks like this is an open-collector part -- I 
don't see it called out, but the chip select is wired active and I can't 
see that the outputs have any other drivers.


So that's good news for repairing my board!  Which brings on the next 
question: do folks here have a recommendation for a good programmer to 
try and track down on eBay for programming these sorts of parts?


cheers,
--FritzM.


On 06/24/2016 06:28 PM, Don North wrote:
Almost 100% certainty the part already there is a small bipolar TTL 
PROM. What would you think it otherwise might be?


For a lot of these logic replacement applications DEC used the open 
collector version, but it might be tristate variation. Check schematic.


Also, the microcycle on the 11/45 (and 11/70 for that matter, 
basically the same design) is 150ns, not 30ns.


There are various clock timing pulses (tp1, tp2, etc) but the datapath 
/ control unit microcycle is 150ns.

ACARD ARS-2000SUP versus SCSI2SD - round 1

[Swift Griggs]

Tested using "Raw block speed" test in LIDO 7 under MacOS:

[SCSI2SD v5]
  READ: 891 KB/s 
 WRITE: 728 KB/s 

[ACARD ARS-2000SUP]

  READ: 1621 KB/s
 WRITE: 1277 KB/s

More info:

The ACARD device contains a Samsung 850 Pro 128G SSD. The SCSI2SD contains 
a Samsung Pro+ 64GB micro SD and is running firmware v4.6, IIRC. Both are 
were attached to a Quadra 700 Macintosh running System 8.1 with 68 megs of 
RAM (4 onboard + 64MB in 16MB SIMMS, the max on the Quadra 700). I had 
them hooked up at the same time so I could use one to partition the other. 
The hard disk "driver" was the one provided by LIDO, but I also tried 
LaCie SilverLining 5's driver as well, but the performace was slightly 
worse. I tested in LIDO using it's raw speed test feature. It's probably 
only a rough measure of sequential speed. I just tested three times and 
averaged the results, but it was within just a few KB/s each time.

Once I'm done I'll hook both of these up to a FreeBSD box, dd off full 
backups, then start over again and try with ZFS under FreeBSD via a PCI 
SCSI controller. Then again under IRIX if I still have the energy. I'll 
give some results from 'fio' or 'iozone' under FreeBSD. Those will be a 
lot more detailed and break down sequential versus random results and show 
the results of various other permutations.

I'd also like to test the SCSI2SD v6, but I can't get my hands on one, 
yet. The only place that talks about the v6 is the codesrc wiki and the 
American ebay retailer seems to only have the v5.0. I'll wait, I guess.

-Swift

Re: Grey Wall (VMS) available

[Richard Loken]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Mark J. Blair wrote:


Please say southern California... ;)


Unlike my grey wall which you know darn well is not in California. :)
I also have a white wall of VMS version 7 docs which were perfect bound
rather than in binders so they take up less space.

Mark, I may have a couple of the Version 5 paperback books that can send
you, one is a user's manual and the other AFAIR system manager's manual.
I am slowly emptying my office at work so they could move to your office.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Don North]

On 6/24/2016 4:36 PM, Fritz Mueller wrote:

Hi All,

In bringing up and debugging my PDP 11/45, I found that one of my GRA (M8101) 
spares has a failed ALU subsidiary ROM.  It's a pretty standard little 32x8 
ROM in a 16-pin DIP, and the truth table is in the 11/45 print set.


I wonder what the replacement options are for parts like these? In particular, 
given the 30ns micro-cycle on the KB11-A, and the fact that the propagation 
time for the ALU downstream of this is roughly 20ns on its own, I'd be worried 
that an off-the-shelf bipolar PROM might be too slow here.


I'm still a little slow on reading the microcode flows, so its not clear to me 
exactly how many micro-cycles there are on the critical path for the E-class 
instructions where this ROM is used.  Maybe its not an issue.


Anybody every try replacing one of these with a bipolar PROM?  Any other 
suggestions for how to repair parts like these?


cheers,
 --FritzM.

Almost 100% certainty the part already there is a small bipolar TTL PROM. What 
would you think it otherwise might be?


For a lot of these logic replacement applications DEC used the open collector 
version, but it might be tristate variation. Check schematic.


Also, the microcycle on the 11/45 (and 11/70 for that matter, basically the same 
design) is 150ns, not 30ns.


There are various clock timing pulses (tp1, tp2, etc) but the datapath / control 
unit microcycle is 150ns.


Don

Re: Wanted: Ann Arbor Ambassador terminal

[Richard Loken]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Ian Primus wrote:


It's been a long time since I've asked about this, so I figured it was
worth another shot. I've been looking for an Ann Arbor Ambassador
terminal for close to fifteen years, with no success. It's kind of an
obscure model, but they did exist. I heard of one being available
several years back, but, unfortunately, someone else got it before I
could.


I have an Ann Arbor Ambassador here with the original owner's manual.
It has been sitting on my shelf for 15 years or so, I must say the
always evil, "It worked when I put it on the shelf" and I am not about
to open a can of worms by plugging it in.

There were slight variations over the time they were on the market
(firmware versions?).  I don't remember whether this is an early or
later model.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Adrian Graham]

On 25/06/2016 01:15, "Mark J. Blair"  wrote:

> 
>> On Jun 24, 2016, at 17:07 , Adrian Graham 
>> wrote:
>> Still up for grabs if you bring enough people to Newmarket, UK, formerly of
>> Europe.
> 
> Maybe after I fit pontoons to my pickup truck! :D

Bring some VT100s with you and you've got a deal!

(I wish I wasn't joking)

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 17:07 , Adrian Graham  
> wrote:
> Still up for grabs if you bring enough people to Newmarket, UK, formerly of
> Europe.

Maybe after I fit pontoons to my pickup truck! :D


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Fritz Mueller]

On 06/24/2016 05:05 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:

...I know where there might be one or too, but they are currently burried. I'll 
call him next week to see if he'll sell them...


That'd be great, thanks!

--FritzM.

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Paul Anderson]

I think they are different.

If I can dig mine up, I'll probably use them. I know where there might be
one or too, but they are currently burried. I'll call him next week to see
if he'll sell them.

If I go to VCF, I could bring a few VT52s  or other items if requested.

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Paul Anderson  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 6:49 PM,  wrote:
>
>> > Yes, please, thanks!  If we can't track down any real ones, maybe we
>> > could bang out some plans something nice/convenient.  (I know, I know,
>> > its silly, its just a pedestal stand with five casters...)
>> >
>> >  --FritzM.
>> >
>> > On 06/24/2016 03:59 PM, Jason T wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>> >>> Was there a similar stand matched to the VT100 series, or shall I
>> continue setting my VT131 on top of the PDP-8/M like a commoner? :)
>> >> I have one of these, or similar stands.  I'm not certain but I think
>> >> it may have been designed to fit both VT5x and VT10x terms.  It's
>> >> currently in storage and in need of restoration, otherwise I'd get
>> >> measurements for everyone.  I can do it on the next storage trip, if
>> >> people are interested.
>> >>
>> >> j
>>
>> Here is the DEC sales description for the VT52 stand, if that helps
>> anyone:
>> http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/DEC_VT52_stand.jpg
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>>
>

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Paul Anderson]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 6:49 PM,  wrote:

> > Yes, please, thanks!  If we can't track down any real ones, maybe we
> > could bang out some plans something nice/convenient.  (I know, I know,
> > its silly, its just a pedestal stand with five casters...)
> >
> >  --FritzM.
> >
> > On 06/24/2016 03:59 PM, Jason T wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> >>> Was there a similar stand matched to the VT100 series, or shall I
> continue setting my VT131 on top of the PDP-8/M like a commoner? :)
> >> I have one of these, or similar stands.  I'm not certain but I think
> >> it may have been designed to fit both VT5x and VT10x terms.  It's
> >> currently in storage and in need of restoration, otherwise I'd get
> >> measurements for everyone.  I can do it on the next storage trip, if
> >> people are interested.
> >>
> >> j
>
> Here is the DEC sales description for the VT52 stand, if that helps anyone:
> http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/DEC_VT52_stand.jpg
>
> Steve.
>
>

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[steven]

> Yes, please, thanks!  If we can't track down any real ones, maybe we
> could bang out some plans something nice/convenient.  (I know, I know,
> its silly, its just a pedestal stand with five casters...)
>
>  --FritzM.
>
> On 06/24/2016 03:59 PM, Jason T wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>>> Was there a similar stand matched to the VT100 series, or shall I continue 
>>> setting my VT131 on top of the PDP-8/M like a commoner? :)
>> I have one of these, or similar stands.  I'm not certain but I think
>> it may have been designed to fit both VT5x and VT10x terms.  It's
>> currently in storage and in need of restoration, otherwise I'd get
>> measurements for everyone.  I can do it on the next storage trip, if
>> people are interested.
>>
>> j

Here is the DEC sales description for the VT52 stand, if that helps anyone:
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/DEC_VT52_stand.jpg

Steve.

Re: Grey Wall (VMS) available (Retrieving things from another zip code, several removed)

[Jim Stephens]

It is just that he is independently employeed, and makes these trips 
maybe every one or two months to recover someone, frequently for another 
agent in one of the 5 or so counties he covers.  It is hard to find 
people that can just drop things and go, but in his business, others out 
of his office can cover his reportees, and if someone skips the process 
of going out to knock is done by someone he works with if he is away.


So he is a unique resource in that regard, and because he is a bonded 
person for his work, I feel that is a plus so you can rely on something 
showing up, rather than a pig in a poke (and just have Jim's word that 
his cousin is a good dude).


Anyway, if someone wants that, or for that matter in the future if 
something shows up, he and his friends could round up and drive a load 
for you at cost+ basis.


My current Kansas City friend who is reliable is currently swamped with 
A/C business, which as you might guess has his feet glued to the KC 
area.  So if something in that area was needed, wait till the weather 
cools off and he might be available.


might be useful to have a thread with people who know relatives, friends 
or the like to do rescues to look back at when you see the odd large 
load that you'd like but in the wrong zip code.


thanks
Jim


On 6/24/2016 3:31 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:

On Jun 24, 2016, at 15:00 , jwsmobile  wrote:

I have a cousin in Colorado that will do anything for a buck.  Email me if you 
are interested.

BTW, he's a licensed Bond agent and travels to pick up humans all over the 
country (florida, washington, DC, etc.), so he will pile a bunch of manuals in 
a rental van and drive them to you, probably for  the same amount as if it were 
a human.  Not cheap, but would get you your paper.  (suv rental + his time, 
gas, food, probably ~$450)

This is the most hilarious offer I've heard in a long time. I'll probably not 
take it, but I'll darn well think about it! I wonder whether he'd consider 
moving a Grey Wall to be a lower or higher risk job compared to moving the 
usual fugitives? :D

Re: Teletype on ebay

[ben]

On 6/24/2016 5:33 PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:

There is a Teletype printer on ebay, the seller is in Virginia. Ebay
item 231990393069

The auction title is:

1966 - Vintage Antique TELETYPE INKTRONIC Receive Only Set TelePrinter
Parallel


Glad to see the email is NOT all caps. :)
Ben.

options for replacing failed small ROMs in PDP-11

[Fritz Mueller]

Hi All,

In bringing up and debugging my PDP 11/45, I found that one of my GRA 
(M8101) spares has a failed ALU subsidiary ROM.  It's a pretty standard 
little 32x8 ROM in a 16-pin DIP, and the truth table is in the 11/45 
print set.


I wonder what the replacement options are for parts like these?  In 
particular, given the 30ns micro-cycle on the KB11-A, and the fact that 
the propagation time for the ALU downstream of this is roughly 20ns on 
its own, I'd be worried that an off-the-shelf bipolar PROM might be too 
slow here.


I'm still a little slow on reading the microcode flows, so its not clear 
to me exactly how many micro-cycles there are on the critical path for 
the E-class instructions where this ROM is used.  Maybe its not an issue.


Anybody every try replacing one of these with a bipolar PROM?  Any other 
suggestions for how to repair parts like these?


cheers,
 --FritzM.

Teletype on ebay

[Douglas Taylor]

There is a Teletype printer on ebay, the seller is in Virginia. Ebay 
item 231990393069


The auction title is:

1966 - Vintage Antique TELETYPE INKTRONIC Receive Only Set TelePrinter 
Parallel

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Fritz Mueller]

Yes, please, thanks!  If we can't track down any real ones, maybe we 
could bang out some plans something nice/convenient.  (I know, I know, 
its silly, its just a pedestal stand with five casters...)


--FritzM.

On 06/24/2016 03:59 PM, Jason T wrote:

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:

Was there a similar stand matched to the VT100 series, or shall I continue 
setting my VT131 on top of the PDP-8/M like a commoner? :)

I have one of these, or similar stands.  I'm not certain but I think
it may have been designed to fit both VT5x and VT10x terms.  It's
currently in storage and in need of restoration, otherwise I'd get
measurements for everyone.  I can do it on the next storage trip, if
people are interested.

j

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Jason T  wrote:
> I have one of these, or similar stands.  I'm not certain but I think
> it may have been designed to fit both VT5x and VT10x terms.  It's
> currently in storage and in need of restoration, otherwise I'd get
> measurements for everyone.  I can do it on the next storage trip, if
> people are interested.

Sure... I'd love to know the dimensions of a "real one".

-ethan

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Jason T]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> Was there a similar stand matched to the VT100 series, or shall I continue 
> setting my VT131 on top of the PDP-8/M like a commoner? :)

I have one of these, or similar stands.  I'm not certain but I think
it may have been designed to fit both VT5x and VT10x terms.  It's
currently in storage and in need of restoration, otherwise I'd get
measurements for everyone.  I can do it on the next storage trip, if
people are interested.

j

KM11 uPB question

[Fritz Mueller]

Hey folks,

While working on my 11/45, I built up a KM11 replica based on Tom Uban's 
ExpressPCB layout.  I noticed the following behavior when trying to use 
it in uPB mode on my KB11-A CPU:


 * If I set up uPB, set KM11 S1 on and S2 off, and resume execution,
   the breakpoint fails to stop the processor
 * BUT, if I depress and *hold* CONT, while it is held down the CPU
   will be held in T2 on the target microword
 * If I then reach over and flip on S2 before releasing CONT I can hold
   the machine there in T2

Documentation on the KM11 seems to imply that the machine should just 
stop at the target state holding in T2 without having to do the 
holding-down-CONT-while-flipping-on-S2 thing.


I was wondering if this was an oddity of my KM11, my CPU, or is that 
just the way uPB mode works on these things?


thanks,
--FritzM.

Re: Grey Wall (VMS) available

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 15:00 , jwsmobile  wrote:
> 
> I have a cousin in Colorado that will do anything for a buck.  Email me if 
> you are interested.
> 
> BTW, he's a licensed Bond agent and travels to pick up humans all over the 
> country (florida, washington, DC, etc.), so he will pile a bunch of manuals 
> in a rental van and drive them to you, probably for  the same amount as if it 
> were a human.  Not cheap, but would get you your paper.  (suv rental + his 
> time, gas, food, probably ~$450)

This is the most hilarious offer I've heard in a long time. I'll probably not 
take it, but I'll darn well think about it! I wonder whether he'd consider 
moving a Grey Wall to be a lower or higher risk job compared to moving the 
usual fugitives? :D


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 14:01 , Marc Howard  wrote:
> 
> I'll take one if there's more than one.

Was there a similar stand matched to the VT100 series, or shall I continue 
setting my VT131 on top of the PDP-8/M like a commoner? :)


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Current source for RX50 media?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Jay West  wrote:
> Ethan;
>
> 1) I replaced a few RD52's with RD53's. I probably have some RD52's laying 
> around if he wants to go that route.

10MB is better than 0MB.  I'll mention it to him.  In the meantime,
I've told him to look for ST-225 (RD31) and ST-251-1 (RD32).  I have a
MicroVAX 2000, so formatting for RQDX3 is no problem.

> 2) It's been too long so I don't remember, but don't you use normal pc 
> floppies (5.25) and PUTR can format them?

Yes, but you need the right type of PC floppy because RX50 are
single-sided and 80 tpi and 10 sectors-per-track (400K on one side).
I'm sure there are FAQs and instructions all over about the process...
I just don't recall off the top of my head which keywords to shop for
that are merely good enough for TRS-80s and C-64s and which will do
for RX50s.  Single Sided Single Density will not cut it, not that uber
cheap floppies abound these days (Elephant?  BASF?  Only if you like
cleaning your heads between each diskette).

> 3) Starting with RT11 is great. Adding TSX+ on top of that is Muy Bueno :) 
> http://tsxplus.classiccmp.org

Back in the day, I mostly used raw RT-11, but I did dabble on a
project or two with TSX+.  Once I have some time to clean up a couple
of boxes, I do plan to dig out the TSX+ stuff and play with it.

Thanks,

-ethan

Re: Grey Wall (VMS) available

[jwsmobile]

I have a cousin in Colorado that will do anything for a buck.  Email me 
if you are interested.


BTW, he's a licensed Bond agent and travels to pick up humans all over 
the country (florida, washington, DC, etc.), so he will pile a bunch of 
manuals in a rental van and drive them to you, probably for  the same 
amount as if it were a human.  Not cheap, but would get you your paper.  
(suv rental + his time, gas, food, probably ~$450)


thanks
Jim

On 6/24/2016 12:24 PM, Jay West wrote:

Mark wrote...
-
Please say southern California... ;)
-
No, but at least the general region

The lady got back with me just now and provided the following additional
info (including location). Please contact me off-list if interested/willing
to get 'em!

===
VMS Programming Vols 1-9
VMS General User 1-6b
Systems Management Vols 1-5b (8 total)

Denver, CO

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Marc Howard  wrote:
> I'll take one if there's more than one.
>
> Marc
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:
>
>> I have a nice VT52, but it sits on the floor right now...  I would dearly
>> love to track down one of the old roll-around pedestals for it (as pictured
>> here: http://cdn4.static.ovimg.com/m/04jldl).
>>
>> Didn't happen to see one in the warehouse by any chance, did you Todd? :-)

I'd be up for one of those too!  Right now, my best VT52 stand is a
Datasystems Desk - it's great, but it's hard to get through doorways.

-ethan

Re: Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Marc Howard]

I'll take one if there's more than one.

Marc

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:

> I have a nice VT52, but it sits on the floor right now...  I would dearly
> love to track down one of the old roll-around pedestals for it (as pictured
> here: http://cdn4.static.ovimg.com/m/04jldl).
>
> Didn't happen to see one in the warehouse by any chance, did you Todd? :-)
>
> cheers,
> --FritzM.
>
>
>

RE: Current source for RX50 media?

[Jay West]

Ethan;

1) I replaced a few RD52's with RD53's. I probably have some RD52's laying 
around if he wants to go that route.

2) It's been too long so I don't remember, but don't you use normal pc floppies 
(5.25) and PUTR can format them?

3) Starting with RT11 is great. Adding TSX+ on top of that is Muy Bueno :) 
http://tsxplus.classiccmp.org

J

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 9:16 AM
To: classiccmp 
Subject: Current source for RX50 media?

Hi, All,

A friend of mine who is mostly into Sun equipment recently purchased a
MicroPDP-11 from a State auction.  He knows little about DEC gear, but I can 
help him there.  His machine had the RD5X drives pulled by the State, but still 
has an RX50.  Where can I point him to get a handful of RX50 floppies?  I can 
help him with contents to put on them, but he needs media.

He's likely to start with RT-11.  He could probably use 10-20 floppies to start.

Thanks,

-ethan

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Camiel Vanderhoeven]

Op 24 jun. 2016 4:40 p.m. schreef "Todd Killingsworth" <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com>:
>
> Heh.  No, guys - I've not bought the whole building!
>
> I've got the 100+ pictures loaded up for editing, but I still have to
> resize them to jpg.   No SGI, a few IBM big peripherals,  some DEC VAX and
> Alpha boxes (no PDP anything),  a Sun E3K, and $DEITY's own collection of
> terminals and keyboards.
> Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
> terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
> oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.
>
> I'll get pics up somewhere this weekend and share the link
>
> Todd Killingsworth

If there's anything like an IBM 1052, let me know!

Camiel

Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?

[Earl Baugh]

This thread reminded me that I recently got shipped what the person told me
was a CDC 6000 Central Memory core.
(it matches what's on this page :
http://www.museumwaalsdorp.nl/computer/en/6400hwac.html ).   He told me that
the console looked like this :
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/gbell/craytalk/sld031.htm

I got it along with a box other parts (mostly Sun things) and a single
"plane" of core memory from another module.
(It connects the 6000 to the Sun 1's that I picked up in the past... some
interesting history...good "over a beer" stories :-) )

I'm coming to VCF MW this year so if there is interest, I can bring it
along...

Earl

Re: Other then being original is there any reason to get a RX02 ?

[Pete Lancashire]

Well you all convince me, I'm $125.00 poorer :-)

But now I'm going to have to start looking for hardware to build a
RSX-11M "rack".

A the good old days of full semi truck loads of custom color 11/40,
then 11/34A, then 11/44's showing up on the loading dock along with
pallets loaded with RK05, then RL02's.

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 6/23/16 10:27 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>  your PDP-11, easy in the Qbus world because the
>>
>>> Oh... and if you want to also dabble with the PDP-8, the same RX02
>>> would be useful on an RX8E
>>
>> You'd be better off looking for a DSD, which also had PDP-8, Q/Unibus
>> interfaces. They use Shugart drives, and can format disks.
>
> Yes.  They are nice.  I have one (Qbus interface).  They are not as
> abundant, however.
>
> (but I was thinking mine had a pair of Tandon TM848s - maybe that's
> just my Dataram PDP-11 clone - that one could also format floppies via
> ROM on the 3rd-party controller)
>
> -ethan
>

Current source for RX50 media?

[Ethan Dicks]

Hi, All,

A friend of mine who is mostly into Sun equipment recently purchased a
MicroPDP-11 from a State auction.  He knows little about DEC gear, but
I can help him there.  His machine had the RD5X drives pulled by the
State, but still has an RX50.  Where can I point him to get a handful
of RX50 floppies?  I can help him with contents to put on them, but he
needs media.

He's likely to start with RT-11.  He could probably use 10-20 floppies to start.

Thanks,

-ethan

Re: Tektronix terminals and terminals in general (Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?)

[Pete Lancashire]

Not Tek but I've seen directly two instances where simple terminal
UI's where very much missed by the end users.

The one I remember the most was a nationwide auto parts company who I
wont mention who. The stores used
80x25 ASCII terminals with forms and fields and just about every
function key did something.

Once the UI was learned watching a counter person was quite amazing,
someone with an account would walk
in ask for a price on something and if say ok you would in less time
it would take for one to move a mouse and
click a button on a modern UI, a dot matrix printer had printed out
the three part NCR paper invoice. Other then
going to get the part and rip the 'holes' off the invoice paper the
guys hands never left the keyboard.

After conversion that simple terminal became a PC with a mouse, a
fancy gui front end, blue screens of death,
virus scanners, and software contract for the O/S, the fancy gui
client, etc. etc.

Not to mention pissed off customer because it went from a few seconds
hit half a dozen of F keys, hit the tab
key a few times to a good dozen mouse moves, clicks, open windows,
wait for a megabyte or two of data
to go back and forth, reboot the PC in the back room because the
Printer Spool crashed, and ..




On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 7:50 AM, emanuel stiebler  wrote:
> On 2016-06-24 08:23, Swift Griggs wrote:
>>
>> However, I think most folks these days would faint if they were forced to
>> work on a terminal.
>
>
> Just don't tell them, that they do ;-)
>
> If you really think about it, the terminals just got faster and
> got more colors. (and you call them smartphone, thin clinet, tablet, win PC,
> ...)
> Otherwise:
> a.) most data is somewhere in the cloud (before it was called mainframe)
> b.) a lot of applications are running in the cloud (before, mainframe)
> c.) you connect now via wireless internet (before: modem)
> d.) ...
>
> So, just Emperor's new clothes ;-)
>
>

Wanted: VT5x roll-around stand

[Fritz Mueller]

I have a nice VT52, but it sits on the floor right now...  I would 
dearly love to track down one of the old roll-around pedestals for it 
(as pictured here: http://cdn4.static.ovimg.com/m/04jldl).


Didn't happen to see one in the warehouse by any chance, did you Todd? :-)

cheers,
--FritzM.

Re: PDP-11/45 restoration running console emulator

[Fritz Mueller]

On 06/24/2016 01:06 PM, william degnan wrote:
...I would be interested if you posted results of your testing using 
the M9301 and the PDPGUI... 


Sure!  I've also been blogging the project at 
http://fritzm.github.io/category/pdp-11, and will continue to post notes 
there as I go.


--FritzM.

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Paul Anderson]

I believe there is a list member in Florida with a band printer he might
part with,

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Todd Killingsworth
>  wrote:
> > Ethan - There are pallets of printers as well, although I don't remember
> > any of the brands besides Okidata.
>
> I don't need printers (I have *lots*, but the old LP25 did not make
> the cut when I was clearing out my office in 1993...), but I was
> making the suggestion to Mark that there are many options he could
> explore if he's willing to make a converter box and not just run a
> DC37 cable from a line printer to his interface.  Sure, the right
> printer is just a passive cable away from working, but line printers
> can be expensive to ship and hard to maintain and it's not the only
> solution.
>
> -ethan
>

RE: PDP-11/45 restoration running console emulator

[Jay West]

Fritz wrote...
-
Made me super happy to see that register dump an the "$" prompt :-)  Next up 
will be using PDP11GUI to run more thorough diagnostics, then I'll be moving on 
to storage (RK05)...
-
I'm familiar with that specific feeling ;) Congrats, wonderful machine!

I went with an RL02/RX02/CSIlinctape for mine. I saved the RK05 to go with the 
8e :)

J

(off topic) Re: PDP-11/45 restoration running console emulator

[Fritz Mueller]

On 06/24/2016 01:08 PM, william degnan wrote:

BTW - What kind of guitar is that?  (in your profile photo).  Looks like a
Fender
It was an 80's Japanese Fender p-bass, sadly no longer with me -- was 
stolen from my car some time back :-(


--FritzM.

Re: Grey Wall (VMS) available

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:24, Jay West  wrote:
> 
> 
> VMS Programming Vols 1-9
> VMS General User 1-6b
> Systems Management Vols 1-5b (8 total)
> 
> Denver, CO
> 

Farther than I want to drive. I hope they find a good home!

Force SPARC/CPU-5V-64-110-2 available.

[Mattis Lind]

I have two Force VME boards with microSPARC CPU which I have no use for.

SPARC/CPU-5V-64-110-2. 110 MHz. 64 Mbyte.

https://imgur.com/a/4GWqB

Trade for something interesting.

/Mattis

Re: PDP-11/45 restoration running console emulator

[william degnan]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:

> Just wanted to share some joy here: after a months-long spare time
> restoration and debug process, the PDP-11/45 I've been working on booted to
> the M9301 console emulator last night (pic at
> http://fritzm.github.io/images/pdp11/m9301-running.jpg).
>
> Made me super happy to see that register dump an the "$" prompt :-)
>
> Next up will be using PDP11GUI to run more thorough diagnostics, then I'll
> be moving on to storage (RK05)...
>
> cheers,
> --FritzM.
>
>

Fritz,
I have been wrestling with PDP11GUI and my 11/40I have not had trouble
with the program, but I am weak on interpreting results of the tests.  I
have finally made progress, but I would be interested if you posted results
of your testing using the M9301 and the PDPGUI.  I have not yet been able
to boot my system with an RL02.
-- 
@ BillDeg:
Web: vintagecomputer.net
Twitter: @billdeg 
Youtube: @billdeg 
Unauthorized Bio 

PDP-11/45 restoration running console emulator

[Fritz Mueller]

Just wanted to share some joy here: after a months-long spare time 
restoration and debug process, the PDP-11/45 I've been working on booted 
to the M9301 console emulator last night (pic at 
http://fritzm.github.io/images/pdp11/m9301-running.jpg).


Made me super happy to see that register dump an the "$" prompt :-)

Next up will be using PDP11GUI to run more thorough diagnostics, then 
I'll be moving on to storage (RK05)...


cheers,
--FritzM.

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Todd Killingsworth
 wrote:
> Ethan - There are pallets of printers as well, although I don't remember
> any of the brands besides Okidata.

I don't need printers (I have *lots*, but the old LP25 did not make
the cut when I was clearing out my office in 1993...), but I was
making the suggestion to Mark that there are many options he could
explore if he's willing to make a converter box and not just run a
DC37 cable from a line printer to his interface.  Sure, the right
printer is just a passive cable away from working, but line printers
can be expensive to ship and hard to maintain and it's not the only
solution.

-ethan

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Todd Killingsworth]

Ethan - There are pallets of printers as well, although I don't remember
any of the brands besides Okidata.
TK

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> > I didn't see any printers mentioned, but I'm specifically looking for a
> DEC LP32 series band printer, or perhaps another printer made for use with
> the DMF32 controller.
> >
> > http://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter16.html
>
> We had an LP25 on our DMF32.  ISTR it's a Dataproducts B300 or
> something close to that.  It was a bit fiddly when it got old (I was
> the one that got to fix it when it broke), but we ran multiple boxes
> of paper through it per day.  It was _the_ printer on a VAX-11/750
> with 75 to 10 users (decreasing over time)... developers code
> listings, non-letter-quality documentation (serial LA210 for the "good
> stuff", used sparingly), diagnostic sheets in every product box,
> e-mails, calendars, customer lists... ASCII art.  ;-)
>
> I think there's a simple circuit (a few TTL inverters and a pin
> swabbing cable) to use an LA-180 (i.e., _non_ Dataproducts printer) on
> the DC37 on a DMF-32.  The basic lines are all the same but a couple
> of them need their sense inverted.  An LA-180 is much lighter
> (van-sized and small pallet) as long as you don't need massive
> volumes.  One could also rig up a Personal Computer-grade dot matrix
> printer with a Centronics interface similarly, if the goal is just to
> have some form of hardcopy, not specifically to "enjoy" the
> band/chain-printer experience.  It is fun, though, watching and
> listening to a band printer fire up and zip through greenbar paper.
>
> -ethan
>

RE: Grey Wall (VMS) available

[Jay West]

Mark wrote...
-
Please say southern California... ;)
-
No, but at least the general region

The lady got back with me just now and provided the following additional
info (including location). Please contact me off-list if interested/willing
to get 'em!

===
VMS Programming Vols 1-9
VMS General User 1-6b
Systems Management Vols 1-5b (8 total)

Denver, CO

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> I didn't see any printers mentioned, but I'm specifically looking for a DEC 
> LP32 series band printer, or perhaps another printer made for use with the 
> DMF32 controller.
>
> http://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter16.html

We had an LP25 on our DMF32.  ISTR it's a Dataproducts B300 or
something close to that.  It was a bit fiddly when it got old (I was
the one that got to fix it when it broke), but we ran multiple boxes
of paper through it per day.  It was _the_ printer on a VAX-11/750
with 75 to 10 users (decreasing over time)... developers code
listings, non-letter-quality documentation (serial LA210 for the "good
stuff", used sparingly), diagnostic sheets in every product box,
e-mails, calendars, customer lists... ASCII art.  ;-)

I think there's a simple circuit (a few TTL inverters and a pin
swabbing cable) to use an LA-180 (i.e., _non_ Dataproducts printer) on
the DC37 on a DMF-32.  The basic lines are all the same but a couple
of them need their sense inverted.  An LA-180 is much lighter
(van-sized and small pallet) as long as you don't need massive
volumes.  One could also rig up a Personal Computer-grade dot matrix
printer with a Centronics interface similarly, if the goal is just to
have some form of hardcopy, not specifically to "enjoy" the
band/chain-printer experience.  It is fun, though, watching and
listening to a band printer fire up and zip through greenbar paper.

-ethan

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jerry Kemp]

Any more details on those AT terminals?

I could use an AT 605 terminal for the 3b2 I hope to someday acquire, 
obviously after Seth gets all he needs.  :)


Jerry




On 06/24/16 12:24 PM, Todd Killingsworth wrote:

Seth, cont.  ... and be careful what you wish for.  I think that he may
have a full 6'x6'x6' pallet of AT terminals for you :)

TK

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:


Seth - I specifically asked about 3B2 boxes when I saw the AT
terminals.  Unfortunately, the guy has already cleared them out of his
warehouse.

Todd Killingsworth

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Seth Morabito  wrote:




I call dibs on any and all AT terminals and 3B2 stuff! :^)

-Seth

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[ben]

On 6/24/2016 11:47 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Swift Griggs wrote:

It's amazing how much stuff UPS had managed to destroy "for" me, also.
It's like them drop the boxes off a crane or something.


There is talk about "drone parcel delivery".

Do UPS and USPS drop their packages from drones or planes?



Or are they doing their deliveries by trebuchet?   (catapult)

Just the OVERSEAS ones!

RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Connor Krukosky]

On Jun 24, 2016 1:11 PM, Jay West  wrote:
>
> Mike wrote... 
> - 
>     HP 262x terminals don't ship well.  The "ET" terminals must be packed 
> carefully. 
>  
> That is very true. I could use one of those large black plastic pieces that 
> hold the monitor open. Mine broke'ted. 
>

If you have the broken pieces and or a complete one I could possibly model it 
and 3D print it depending on size...

We have the technology ;)

-Connor K

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Norman Jaffe]

I always thought that they 'preconditioned' the packages by running them over 
with a forklift before shipping, so that they could be packed more closely 
together. 
- Original Message -

From: "Fred Cisin"  
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 10:47:46 AM 
Subject: RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse 

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Swift Griggs wrote: 
> It's amazing how much stuff UPS had managed to destroy "for" me, also. 
> It's like them drop the boxes off a crane or something. 

There is talk about "drone parcel delivery". 

Do UPS and USPS drop their packages from drones or planes? 
Or are they doing their deliveries by trebuchet? (catapult) 

RE: Model M Key Cap Replacement

[Ali]

> > Does anyone know if WASD key caps are compatible?
> >
> > http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/printed-keycap-
> singles
> > .html
> 
> No, those are for Cherry MX keyswitches (and a number of chinese
> clones). Not compatible with the Model M at all.
> 
> I think I have a full set of keycaps for a Model M keyboard (ISO
> layout, Norwegian character set) somewhere.

Thanks. Good to know. I am actually looking for more modern key caps (e.g.
window key).

-Ali

RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Swift Griggs wrote:

It's amazing how much stuff UPS had managed to destroy "for" me, also.
It's like them drop the boxes off a crane or something.


There is talk about "drone parcel delivery".

Do UPS and USPS drop their packages from drones or planes?
Or are they doing their deliveries by trebuchet?   (catapult)

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 10:30, Swift Griggs  wrote:
> I wish one of these shippers would develop a glass-coke-bottle style 
> business model. You ask for a secure container and they can either be 
> delivered for $$$ or you can pick them up. The containers should be made 
> from real materials (wood or something strong with nice foam suspension or 
> padding with FRAGILE printed all over them).

A crate will protect better against being squished by other cargo, but it's 
still up to the shipper to know how to secure the item inside well enough to 
withstand shock. A fully assembled heavy thing inside a fragile plastic case 
may not make it intact no matter how good the padding is.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Swift Griggs]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Jay West wrote:
> [...] besides filling about 1/2 the box with foam peanuts. One could not 
> imagine a 264X could look like it was put in a blender, but this one 
> literally poured out of the box. *sigh*

It's amazing how much stuff UPS had managed to destroy "for" me, also. 
It's like them drop the boxes off a crane or something. 

 I wish one of these shippers would develop a glass-coke-bottle style 
business model. You ask for a secure container and they can either be 
delivered for $$$ or you can pick them up. The containers should be made 
from real materials (wood or something strong with nice foam suspension or 
padding with FRAGILE printed all over them). When a buyer decides they 
want this service, they pay a small deposit fee which is refunded when 
they put the empty container out by the street for the shipper to pick up 
the next day. Then they refund your deposit.

I'd definitely pay extra for that for many delicate items. Maybe someone 
already does that sort of thing but it's just not the kind of thing I've 
ever heard of from OOOPS, Federal Compress, or USPS.

Sure you can pay extra to insure your items, but what if they were super 
hard to get? 

-Swift

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Todd Killingsworth]

Seth, cont.  ... and be careful what you wish for.  I think that he may
have a full 6'x6'x6' pallet of AT terminals for you :)

TK

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Seth - I specifically asked about 3B2 boxes when I saw the AT
> terminals.  Unfortunately, the guy has already cleared them out of his
> warehouse.
>
> Todd Killingsworth
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Seth Morabito  wrote:
>
>> > On Jun 24, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Todd Killingsworth <
>> killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Heh.  No, guys - I've not bought the whole building!
>> >
>> > I've got the 100+ pictures loaded up for editing, but I still have to
>> > resize them to jpg.   No SGI, a few IBM big peripherals,  some DEC VAX
>> and
>> > Alpha boxes (no PDP anything),  a Sun E3K, and $DEITY's own collection
>> of
>> > terminals and keyboards.
>> > Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
>> > terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
>> > oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.
>>
>>
>> I call dibs on any and all AT terminals and 3B2 stuff! :^)
>>
>> -Seth
>>
>>
>

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Seth Morabito]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Todd Killingsworth 
>  wrote:
> 
> Heh.  No, guys - I've not bought the whole building!
> 
> I've got the 100+ pictures loaded up for editing, but I still have to
> resize them to jpg.   No SGI, a few IBM big peripherals,  some DEC VAX and
> Alpha boxes (no PDP anything),  a Sun E3K, and $DEITY's own collection of
> terminals and keyboards.
> Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
> terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
> oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.


I call dibs on any and all AT terminals and 3B2 stuff! :^)

-Seth

RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jay West]

Mike wrote...
-
HP 262x terminals don't ship well.  The "ET" terminals must be packed
carefully.

That is very true. I could use one of those large black plastic pieces that
hold the monitor open. Mine broke'ted.

HP 264X terminals on the other hand, do ship well because they are most
definitely built like a tank. That being said, I did have one shipped to me
a few years back (posted pictures to the list) that a shipper managed to
completely destroy. They put it in a box that was twice the size of the
terminal in all directions, and put absolutely nothing else in the box
besides filling about 1/2 the box with foam peanuts. One could not imagine a
264X could look like it was put in a blender, but this one literally poured
out of the box. *sigh*

J

Re: Vector displays (was Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?)

[Eric Smith]

> And then there's 3270 terminal protocol ;)

And HTML, which is 3270 updated for the 1990s.

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 07:39, Todd Killingsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> some DEC VAX and
> Alpha boxes (no PDP anything),

Oooh, I'm curious about what VAX boxes are in there.

I didn't see any printers mentioned, but I'm specifically looking for a DEC 
LP32 series band printer, or perhaps another printer made for use with the 
DMF32 controller.

http://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter16.html


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

acoustic coupler/modem available

[Jay West]

Spotted this at a local surplus place today. it's an acoustic coupler/modem,
white plastic case, manufacturer is "MI2" (with the 2 as a superscript, so I
guess "MI Squared"). Never heard of them.

 

No clue if it works, appears to be in fair condition, they have a price tag
of $25 on it.

 

J

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Greg Stark]

You guys must have much larger apartments (or houses I'm guessing) than
me I would really like a vt220 largely because it seems like it
wouldn't occupy much space. I'm guessing they withstand shipping better too.

-- 
Greg

Re: Grey Wall (VMS) available

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 09:42, Jay West  wrote:
> 
> Someone emailed me last night that has a full set (about 30+) of manuals in
> grey binders for VMS 5.0.
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for them to respond with their location. This is not something
> I'd want...

Please say southern California... ;)


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Mike Loewen]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Ian Primus wrote:


On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Todd Killingsworth
 wrote:


Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.


I'm looking for HP 264x terminals and parts - especially keyboards.
Likewise, HP 262x terminals, parts and keyboards.


   Ditto.  Also HP 2392 terminals and keyboards.

   HP 262x terminals don't ship well.  The "ET" terminals must be packed 
carefully.



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

RE: Model M Key Cap Replacement

[Ali]

> Unicomp still sells replacement caps (
> http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Buttons ), however I believe
> they have a minimum order amount (price). There are also the ever-so-
> hated keyboard forums where you can often post a "Looking for" and find
> someone with some spares they'll dump dirt cheap or free.

Does anyone know if WASD key caps are compatible?

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/printed-keycap-singles.html

Thanks!

-Ali

RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jay West]

Ian wrote...
-
I'm looking for HP 264x terminals and parts - especially keyboards.
Likewise, HP 262x terminals, parts and keyboards.
-

What 264x parts do you need? I have three 264x terminals that were far gone 
enough that I am using them as parts donors for my other 264x's. Let me know 
what parts you are looking for...

I'll take a IBM 360 model 91 in trade ;)

J

Wanted: Ann Arbor Ambassador terminal

[Ian Primus]

It's been a long time since I've asked about this, so I figured it was
worth another shot. I've been looking for an Ann Arbor Ambassador
terminal for close to fifteen years, with no success. It's kind of an
obscure model, but they did exist. I heard of one being available
several years back, but, unfortunately, someone else got it before I
could.

So, does anyone have one of these? Has anyone seen one in recent memory?

-Ian

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ian Primus]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Todd Killingsworth
 wrote:

> Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
> terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
> oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.

I'm looking for HP 264x terminals and parts - especially keyboards.
Likewise, HP 262x terminals, parts and keyboards.

In the realm of weird terminals, I've been looking for an Ann Arbor
Ambassador for close to fifteen years now. Please let me know if you
find one.

-Ian

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ian Primus]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:59 AM, William Donzelli  wrote:

> And terminals in the VT100 family are probably the most difficult to
> ship (closely followed by the VT50 family).

Most definitely. Having dealt with a *lot* of terminals, and had many
of them shipped to me - I have had at least two VT100's broken in
shipping. The problem is that there isn't much holding that upper
housing on, and it gets pretty brittle with age. Even a well packed
one has a good chance of being broken in transit. Other terminals that
are difficult to ship include the Zenith Z19 - the picture tube tends
to break the posts that hold it in - that plastic has gotten kind of
brittle.

The VT50 series, while big and bulky, is fairly sturdy and shippable,
but the sheer size is a real problem.

I don't even want to think about shipping a VT05. That thing is heavy,
deep, and fragile.

-Ian

Grey Wall (VMS) available

[Jay West]

Someone emailed me last night that has a full set (about 30+) of manuals in
grey binders for VMS 5.0.

 

Still waiting for them to respond with their location. This is not something
I'd want...

 

J

RE: Vector displays (was Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?)

[Jay West]

Swift wrote...

 but it showed me that "terminal emulation" could be all kinds of awesome
stuff.

And then there's 3270 terminal protocol ;)

J

RE: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jay West]

Todd wrote...
-
Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP 
terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also 
oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.

I'd very much love a pair of 3278's or 3279's.

I think I have more than enough HP terminals to last me, I think the only 
terminals I'd still make room for are MicroTerm ACT/Mime, or a mint condition 
ADDS Consul or the right model of ADDS Regent.

J 

Vector displays (was Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?)

[Swift Griggs]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Paul Koning wrote:
> By contrast, a Tex 401x is a storage tube, which puts it at the other 
> extreme: once you draw a character or line, it would stay without any 
> further action.  You can't erase it; the only erase available is a full 
> screen erase.

That reminds me vaguely of RIP at the end of the BBS era. It probably 
could do a partial-refresh/erase, but if you watched it "paint" images, 
that's how it appeared. I was glad that the Internet-era came along, but 
it's sad RIP didn't come along earlier. 

I also remember some kind of BBS terminal emulator that I only saw over 
someone's shoulder. It was for the Amiga and appeared that it could 
transmit/receive sprite-based graphics over the modem connection. I just 
remember watching a friend of a friend connect to a BBS overseas and I 
they had some kind of welcome screen with a little sprite-based unicorn 
running across the screen. I dunno, maybe it was a rigged demo, but it 
showed me that "terminal emulation" could be all kinds of awesome stuff.

-Swift

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[William Donzelli]

> Can't wait to see!  A real VT-100 would be a prized possession.  Not sure
> how to get it to Seattle though.  I see too many horror stories about
> shipping terminals.

And terminals in the VT100 family are probably the most difficult to
ship (closely followed by the VT50 family).

--
Will

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jon Elson]

On 06/24/2016 09:45 AM, Jason Howe wrote:
Can't wait to see!  A real VT-100 would be a prized 
possession.  Not sure how to get it to Seattle though.  I 
see too many horror stories about shipping terminals.


I just shipped two 13" green screen monitors in their 
original shipping cartons to two guys on this list.  These 
were new replacements we picked up at a surplus place 30 
years ago and never used.  I think they will come through 
fine, but will know in a couple of days.  I shipped them 
FedEx ground, which has always done VERY well for me.


Jon

Re: Other then being original is there any reason to get a RX02 ?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>
>
> On 6/23/16 10:27 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>  your PDP-11, easy in the Qbus world because the
>
>> Oh... and if you want to also dabble with the PDP-8, the same RX02
>> would be useful on an RX8E
>
> You'd be better off looking for a DSD, which also had PDP-8, Q/Unibus
> interfaces. They use Shugart drives, and can format disks.

Yes.  They are nice.  I have one (Qbus interface).  They are not as
abundant, however.

(but I was thinking mine had a pair of Tandon TM848s - maybe that's
just my Dataram PDP-11 clone - that one could also format floppies via
ROM on the 3rd-party controller)

-ethan

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Jason Howe  wrote:
> Can't wait to see!  A real VT-100 would be a prized possession.  Not sure
> how to get it to Seattle though.  I see too many horror stories about
> shipping terminals.

It can be tough to ship CRTs (step 1, don't put them in a tiny box...)

I don't get out to Seattle, but if you drive out to a VCFmw or VCFe
some time, I've been known to bring dumb terminals to sell.  I don't
want to ship them either.

-ethan

Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?

[Paul Koning]

> On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:28 PM, James Vess  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I was looking and found that the Tektronix 4010 is a calligraphic display,
> for which I found a video!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM
> 
> Let me know if it bares a resemblance to the display on the 6600

None, unless you count the fact that both are green and both use electrons.

The Tek 401x series displays are terminals (connected by a serial port).  They 
use storage CRT technology to create a persistent image (no refresh).  They do 
dot matrix ASCII text, line drawing, and have a crosshair cursor for input.  
They use ASCII based text communication, at 9600 baud (I think they go that 
high).  The 4010 is rather a small tube, 24x80 characters; some other models 
are much larger and can do quite impressive graphics at fairly moderate cost by 
the standards of the time (mid 1970s).

The CDC 6000 series console (Data Display Co. DD60) showed up about 10 years 
earlier.  It's essentially a dual oscilloscope with X/Y input -- like typical 
oscilloscopes it uses electrostatic deflection.  The display itself accepts 9 
bit X and Y coordinates, plus analog X/Y offset signals that are used to 
produce the character outlines, a size selection signal (small/medium/large) 
and a left or right intensify signal.  The X/Y deflection signals are applied 
to both tubes, but the intensify signal controls which of the two lights up.  
In theory you could light up both simultaneously; the CDC controllers would not 
do that.  There's also a keyboard, with a 6 bit data signal plus key up/down 
signals.

The 6612 or 6602 controller ("synchronizer" in 6000 terminology) connects a 
6000 I/O channel to the DD60 (or, for some models, to a pair of DD60s).  It 
interprets commands to produce the X/Y position signals, advances X after each 
character, and converts character data into the X/Y offset waveforms.  The 
waveform generator is essentially a counter feeding a ROM which feeds a set of 
D/A converters.  In the 170 series, it was done that way, but in the 6000 
series display controller, the waveform generation uses a large complex 
collection of gates instead of a ROM.  Why, I'm not sure.  A possible answer is 
that a sufficiently fast ROM (100 ns lookup time) wasn't available in the early 
1960s.  The controller, when in keyboard input mode, would read the keyboard 
lines and deliver the data (or 0 meaning no key down) to the PPU.  No rollover, 
which meant that typing fast required some practice.

Since the DD60/6612 hardware had no refresh machinery at all, the driving 
software would do the refreshing.  This made the display very dynamic.  By 
contrast, a Tex 401x is a storage tube, which puts it at the other extreme: 
once you draw a character or line, it would stay without any further action.  
You can't erase it; the only erase available is a full screen erase.

paul

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ben Sinclair]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
> terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
> oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.
>

That still sounds great! I'd also love a DEC terminal of some kind... I got
rid of a VT-100 years ago and regret it. Some of the AT machines were
interesting too!

-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: Tektronix terminals and terminals in general (Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?)

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-06-24 08:23, Swift Griggs wrote:

However, I think most folks these days would faint if they were forced to
work on a terminal.


Just don't tell them, that they do ;-)

If you really think about it, the terminals just got faster and
got more colors. (and you call them smartphone, thin clinet, tablet, win 
PC, ...)

Otherwise:
a.) most data is somewhere in the cloud (before it was called mainframe)
b.) a lot of applications are running in the cloud (before, mainframe)
c.) you connect now via wireless internet (before: modem)
d.) ...

So, just Emperor's new clothes ;-)

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Jason Howe]

Can't wait to see!  A real VT-100 would be a prized possession.  Not 
sure how to get it to Seattle though.  I see too many horror stories 
about shipping terminals.


--Jason

On 06/24/2016 07:39 AM, Todd Killingsworth wrote:

Heh.  No, guys - I've not bought the whole building!

I've got the 100+ pictures loaded up for editing, but I still have to
resize them to jpg.   No SGI, a few IBM big peripherals,  some DEC VAX and
Alpha boxes (no PDP anything),  a Sun E3K, and $DEITY's own collection of
terminals and keyboards.
Terminals from IBM Mainframes and midrange, pallets of DEC terminals, HP
terminals (or monitor/keyboard combos for HP PA-RISC machines??).  Also
oddballs like AT, Qume, Texas Instruments, WISE, etc.

I'll get pics up somewhere this weekend and share the link

Todd Killingsworth

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Swift Griggs 
wrote:


On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, Ben Sinclair wrote:

killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm set up to go onsite this afternoon, and I've got new SD cards and

two


I assume Todd is lost in the warehouse, or just kept all of the
new-in-box Lisp machines, SGIs, and System 360s for himself!

He's probably still waiting for some of them to boot up. *ducks* :-P

-Swift

Re: Other then being original is there any reason to get a RX02 ?

[Al Kossow]

On 6/23/16 10:27 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
 your PDP-11, easy in the Qbus world because the

> Oh... and if you want to also dabble with the PDP-8, the same RX02
> would be useful on an RX8E

You'd be better off looking for a DSD, which also had PDP-8, Q/Unibus
interfaces. They use Shugart drives, and can format disks.

Tektronix terminals and terminals in general (Re: CDC 6600 - Why so awesome?)

[Swift Griggs]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016, James Vess wrote:
> I was looking and found that the Tektronix 4010 is a calligraphic 
> display, for which I found a video! 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM Let me know if it bares a 
> resemblance to the display on the 6600

I was just looking at those things, too! I've always liked Tektronix and 
these are wonderful. I found some picture of people doing what appeared to 
be CAD on them. There are descriptions of all kinds of creative things 
being done with them.

About 15 years ago I did some work for a lumberyard company. They had 
the most consistent IT setup I've ever seen. They had very few actual 
computers anywhere. 95% of the company used terminals fed off serial 
MUXes tied over 56k or 128k leased lines back to their corporate 
headquarters. They used portable battery-powered hand scanners that 
plugged into the terminals' keyboard interface, IIRC. Those were for 
scanning their inventory. I noticed:

* They had almost no IT staff, yet things ran pretty smooth.

* They never had viruses.

* Replacing "workstations" (terminals with more access to their business 
  apps) took about 10 minutes.

* They had some weird office automation package (word processor, time 
  management, spreadsheet, etc..) I'd never seen before that reminded me a 
  bit of that one office product from DEC for VMS (I can't remember the 
  name, but I think it was written in DCL). I don't know enough about VMS. 
  The bosses and admin assistants ran that and they absolutely loved it. 
  It was very fast and the kind of thing were once you memorized the 
  keystrokes you could just fly through it.

* They had a coder who wrote some really cool blackberry-like features for
  the Palm Pilot. They could sync all kinds of business related stuff from 
  their Unix boxes (mail, order information, inventory, etc). The bosses 
  all had those. 

It's the only place I ever saw, besides the (extremely well funded and 
very nice) Don Harrington Library consortium that was able to really get 
some mileage from a hub-and-spoke, terminal based, WAN distributed, highly 
integrated, centralized system. From a sysadmin perspective, it seems like 
it makes a lot of sense. Just cluster a few robust systems and tie 
everything you can into them once you've got your confidence up!

However, I think most folks these days would faint if they were forced to 
work on a terminal. 

1. They couldn't play minesweeper when they got bored. 
2. They couldn't refresh Twitter & Facebook every 5 seconds.
3. They couldn't run an IM client.
4. They'd have to actually read the screen. No icons. 
5. How would they do their jobs as users and infect the thing with 
   crapware and viruses?

I often setup terminals on my desktop as "extra heads" to display logs or 
monitoring information, or sometimes use them for debug output for coding 
projects etc... When I'm working at a big corporation it absolutely freaks 
just about everyone out and their reactions are mostly quite annoying. It 
pains me to hear people use the words "text" like it's a curseword. Plus, 
they also just stand there stunned and say "but but that's OLD!" 
as if I were violating some local ordnance not to poop on my desk. 

I smile when I go to the auto parts store and they are still using 
terminals. Never say die! 

I think terminals were, and actually still *are* cool. Computers might be 
cheap now, but that doesn't mean that having centralized control with 
users on terminals isn't still useful in many instances/situations.

-Swift

Re: old friend is slimming down the warehouse

[Ben Sinclair]

> On Jun 22, 2016, at 07:23, Todd Killingsworth <
killingsworth.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm set up to go onsite this afternoon, and I've got new SD cards and two

I assume Todd is lost in the warehouse, or just kept all of the new-in-box
Lisp machines, SGIs, and System 360s for himself!

-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: Other then being original is there any reason to get a RX02 ?

[Ben Sinclair]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Someday I want to have a PDP11 even if it is a QBUS version
>
> I can get a clean RX02 for about $150. When my life involved PDP11's
> starting with 34A and ending with 44's I never used one.
>

If you don't need it, I could certainly use a clean RX02 for $150! :)


-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: Y Combinator is restoring one of Alan Kay's Xerox Alto machines

[Liam Proven]

On 24 June 2016 at 10:05,   wrote:
> And here is Ken's new post in the series
> http://www.righto.com/2016/06/restoring-y-combinators-xerox-alto-day.html


I can't see any dates on the post, but I am not seeing a new one there...

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Y Combinator is restoring one of Alan Kay's Xerox Alto machines

[curiousmarc3]

And here is Ken's new post in the series
http://www.righto.com/2016/06/restoring-y-combinators-xerox-alto-day.html

Marc

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 10:59 PM, CuriousMarc  wrote:
> 
> The restoration is physically happening at my place. As noted below we have 
> a small and quite knowledgeable group of people contributing, including 
> actual hardware when we are missing a part (thanks Al !). A few of us are 
> chronicling this on our favorite media from our favorite angle.
> I like to make short videos trying to convey the inside story of the 
> restoration, on my YouTube channel:
> https://www.youtube.com/curiousmarc
> It's interspersed with all the other restorations, but two videos so far:
> https://youtu.be/YupOC_6bfMI
> https://youtu.be/xPyqQXFC2yw
> Ed Thelen likes to collect every bit of raw information floating around, 
> including some of the team emails and throw them into equally raw site, as 
> he does for the IBM 1401 restoration effort at CHM:
> http://ed-thelen.org/RestoreAlto/index.html
> Carl Claunch methodically recounts everything he does every day (and he does 
> a lot), so when he works on the Alto, you'll know every detail:
> http://rescue1130.blogspot.com/
> Ken Shirriff makes deeply researched, superlative detailed posts on his 
> blog. These are reference pieces, I admire them a lot:
> http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-restoring.html
> And it gets discussed on the Y-combinator (the owners of the machine) and 
> hopefully here too.
> Seeing the interest, I will make an effort to post new links when they 
> become available, unless of course Master Al beats me to it.
> 
> Marc
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 8:54 AM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Y Combinator is restoring one of Alan Kay's Xerox Alto machines
> 
> http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-restoring.html
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11929396
> http://ed-thelen.org/RestoreAlto/index.html
> 
>> On 6/20/16 8:51 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
>> I post just went up on Saturday. It's nice that both CHM and LCM folks
>> are helping with this.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/20/16 8:41 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> http://www.righto.com/2016/06/y-combinators-xerox-alto-restoring.html
>>> 
>>> Found via:
>>> 
>>> http://www.osnews.com/story/29261/Xerox_Alto_restoring_the_legendary_
>>> 1970s_GUI_computer
>>> 
>>> There are 2 videos up so far, with disassemblies that may interest 
>>> CCmpers.
>>> 
>>> Some people from the list are involved, including Al Kossow, but I
>>> haven't seen the link posted.
>>> 
>> 
>