Re: SGI Indigo, WTB Power supply? Burning smell?

[ethan]

I have a indigo that is not getting much use. I believe it has the R4000
with the better power supply, and maxed out ram.(whatever that may be, i
want to say 192 Mb, but i coud be mistaken, i can fire it up and verify if
needed) I have not used it much. Prom battery is dead, i used to jump it
with a AAA battery temporally to get past a Time error at startup, but
never got around to soldering a proper battery into it. It should have the
maxed out memory, as well as the keyboard and mouse to go along with it.


I just pulled mine apart after digging around online. So far, the PSU is 
actually the R4K model (to my surprise) and nothing is smelling roasted 
inside of it. It's interesting that the followup mentions the fan from the 
PSU. I wonder



I am in the process of paying off 2 SGI onyx 2's, if the indigo with the
keyboard and mouse would be of interest, i can sell it to you to put money
twords my Onyx fund.


I'm going to try to repair mine first, but if all else fails I will let 
you know!



--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: SGI Indigo, WTB Power supply? Burning smell?

[william degnan]

On Dec 9, 2016 11:09 PM, "devin davison"  wrote:
>
> I have a indigo that is not getting much use. I believe it has the R4000
> with the better power supply, and maxed out ram.(whatever that may be, i
> want to say 192 Mb, but i coud be mistaken, i can fire it up and verify if
> needed) I have not used it much. Prom battery is dead, i used to jump it
> with a AAA battery temporally to get past a Time error at startup, but
> never got around to soldering a proper battery into it. It should have the
> maxed out memory, as well as the keyboard and mouse to go along with it.
>
> I am in the process of paying off 2 SGI onyx 2's, if the indigo with the
> keyboard and mouse would be of interest, i can sell it to you to put money
> twords my Onyx fund.
>
> --Devin

I recently gave my spare SGI stuff away.  It's cheaply bought on Ebay, I'd
just get a parts unit there.  That said, the fan could be the source of the
smell and the part to go first from my limited experience when a fan dies
is the video card.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net

Re: SGI Indigo, WTB Power supply? Burning smell?

[devin davison]

I have a indigo that is not getting much use. I believe it has the R4000
with the better power supply, and maxed out ram.(whatever that may be, i
want to say 192 Mb, but i coud be mistaken, i can fire it up and verify if
needed) I have not used it much. Prom battery is dead, i used to jump it
with a AAA battery temporally to get past a Time error at startup, but
never got around to soldering a proper battery into it. It should have the
maxed out memory, as well as the keyboard and mouse to go along with it.

I am in the process of paying off 2 SGI onyx 2's, if the indigo with the
keyboard and mouse would be of interest, i can sell it to you to put money
twords my Onyx fund.

--Devin

SGI Indigo, WTB Power supply? Burning smell?

[ethan]

Okay, after a ton of rounding up the parts I finally have the keyboard, 
keyboard cable, mouse, Indigo and 13W3 to VGA cable to try to bring my 
Indigo back up.


I put my baby on the desk, cable it all up... and burning smell when I 
start it up.


So far I can't find anything on the PCBs that looks burned. Everything 
smells somewhere between old and burned, so that isn't much help.


But here is where it gets crazier.

I originally had a R3000 Indigo, with Entry graphics as I recall. Or maybe 
it had some 3d ass, but it was still 8bit color depth. At some point in 
the NASA Auctions I had come across another Indigo that worked, and it had 
a R4K cpu board. And then I had a card that went into one of the desksides 
that had a Elan set that got you Elan on a deskside (I think.)


I left one of the Indigos outside with a bunch of computers for 
craigslisters to come curbcycle, but a homeless guy stole it all took all 
the metal and left behind all the smashed up plastic parts (yay.) I 
couldn't remember what was in the Indigo I left outside.


After sniffing the PCBs for a minute or so like bomb dog looking for a 
burned resistor or cap I got to thinking that the PCBs are bigger than 
I remembered. Better than I remembered.


I google the part numbers, and low and behold it's a R4K CPU card and a 
Elan graphics set. Good for performance, but it's not 100% my first SGI. 
But still.


BU there is a different power supply for R4K machines, that is 
different from R3K machines. I'm pretty sure the machine I have is my old 
trusty Eggbert, and it has a R3K PSU.


So now I need to find (this should be easy?) a R4K power supply for an 
Indigo. I don't even know if the boards will work, green LED came on for a 
bit then went orange. There was frame buffer output. There was no startup 
sound that I knew and loved.


The 9430810 is the R3000 power supply, the 9430812 is the R4000/R4400 PSU.

Any leads?

--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Phil Budne]

> Both One-Word and Two-Word Global Byte Pointers were added at the same
> time as extended addressing, according to the HRM.  Simple "Global Byte
> Pointer" would have been inherently ambiguous.

OWG's were added to the KL ucode later:
;251ADD CODE FOR ONE WORD GLOBAL BYTE POINTERS.
;   TOOK OUT EDITS 243 AND 250 TO GET ENOUGH SPACE IN CRAM
;   FOR THIS EDIT. OWGBP WITH EXTEND INSTRUCTIONS WILL NOT
;   RETURN A OWGBP. THEY WILL RETURN A TWO WORD GLOBAL BP.

I can't tell off hand if there was a TOPS-20 release that supported
extended addressing earlier than UCODE version 251.

Hey! here's a ref to TWG's in the UCODE history:
;3369 Aug 83--Back off 330 for a bit, since TOPS-10 7.02 must be tested
;   and OWGs in section 0 fail for string instructions (they get converted
;   to TWGs, which are illegal in section 0).  For now, we will maintain
;   both sources.

Maybe I'm conflating things with the legalization of OWGs in section zero
(the low 256KW of address space that behaved like a non-extended machine)

> The KI-10 processor added
> a 22-bit pager and a concept of sections to the hardware.

Are you sure?  KI (aka TOPS-10) paging may have extended the physical
address space, but not the virtual address space (still limited to 18 bits).

In the end TOPS-10 used "KL" paging: DECnet had to live in a non-zero
section in the monitor (in 7.02?), and user-mode extended address was
finally added later.

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 3:39 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> ...
>> 
>> That's true, but the wording implies that the converse holds (360/75
>> programs will run on 360/44) which is usually not true.  "Compatible subset
>> of the ... models" would be clearer.
>> 
> Just like any older / newer computer that is in principle compatible, but
> practically not really.

Not quite.  In the case of the 360/44, it wasn't compatible in principle 
either, not even close and quite intentionally.

paul

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Paul Berger]

Some time ago there was a discussion about the elusive 98228A ROM that 
supports both the 9885 and 9895 diskette drive units on a 9825T, well 
good news!  A fellow MoHPC member David Ramsey very kindly loaned me 
his, and with a little careful reading of the service manual along with 
studying Tony Duell's schematic I got a good idea of how it work, and 
observing the memory bus using a logic analyzer confirmed how it 
worked.  I was able to dump the ROM using GPIO cards in a 9920 to 
simulate the memory bus, I actually went on and dumped all the ROMs in 
the 9825T as well as a couple other I had.  I have successfully created 
a clone of the ROM and have even fit it into a a ROM shell.  I am going 
to try creating a PCB for it too, what I have now is just hand wired, 
but it works.  In the end the ROM module did not turn out to be very 
complicated.  I am just in the process of documenting my project and 
will release a package soon with full documentation and most importantly 
the ROM image.  I plan to donate my package along with all of my ROM 
images to hpmuseum.net.


Paul.

Re: PDP-8 OS/8 versions

[Charles Dickman]

I am aware of some of that. I was actually comparing using the
information in the combined kit release notes. It has information
about how to determine the version of the included programs. Some have
a command to do it, some have an address that needs to be examined
with ODT.

With OS/8, the notion of a config files changes. You make changes and
save them in the binary of the command, so a command binary can
change. You learn this after doing a build with R BUILD and then
realizing that you can't save your changes. I haven't figured out if
there is a way to load a system head into BUILD.

-chuck



On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Vincent Slyngstad
 wrote:
> From: Charles Dickman: Friday, December 09, 2016 3:59 PM
>>
>> I have some DECtapes that are V3D and I have found some RX01 images
>> from the V3D Combined Kit. The programs that are common to both are
>> different versions, so V3D changed over time.
>
>
> I know that .SV format saves some cruft along with the binary, so .SV files
> can compare different even though they are effectively the same.
> (I have some Perl code somewhere that will diff them in a way that helps
> identify this problem.  What happens is that the differences are all in the
> "tails" where .BN format provides granularity not available in .SV format.)
>
> It is also possible to save a program after it's been run a few times, which
> saves different values for the return addresses at the top of the
> subroutines and such.
>
>Vince

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[Jon Elson]

On 12/09/2016 05:46 PM, ste...@malikoff.com wrote:


Thank you for the interesting brochure Bill, as far as I know the Model 44 was
a bit of an odd duck in having a modified instruction set.


The model 44 was a non-microcoded machine, and the lowest model with 
full 32-bit data paths.
(Model 30 was 8 bit!!, model 40 was 16 bits).  The /44 was aimed at 
scientific computing and process control applications.  Yes, certainly 
an odd duck.  It had some other oddities, such as optional integrated 
files (disk drives installed internal to the CPU cabinet) and direct I/O 
support (basically parallel input and output registers).  The /44 lacked 
all character and decimal instructions, but the floating point 
performance was close to (or in some cases can even exceed) the 360/50 
performance.


Jon

Re: PDP-8 OS/8 versions

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Charles Dickman: Friday, December 09, 2016 3:59 PM

I have some DECtapes that are V3D and I have found some RX01 images
from the V3D Combined Kit. The programs that are common to both are
different versions, so V3D changed over time.


I know that .SV format saves some cruft along with the binary, so .SV 
files can compare different even though they are effectively the same.
(I have some Perl code somewhere that will diff them in a way that helps 
identify this problem.  What happens is that the differences are all in the 
"tails" where .BN format provides granularity not available in .SV format.)


It is also possible to save a program after it's been run a few times, which 
saves different values for the return addresses at the top of the subroutines 
and such.


   Vince 

PDP-8 OS/8 versions

[Charles Dickman]

Has anyone ever described the OS/8 version history?

I have some DECtapes that are V3D and I have found some RX01 images
from the V3D Combined Kit. The programs that are common to both are
different versions, so V3D changed over time.

Then there were the DECmates and there were changes made to support
them. I see V4 referenced.

There are also some sources online, but it isn't clear how they
correspond to the usable device images.

I have been looking at these online resources mostly, but I have found others.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8
http://www.pdp8.net/

Are there other better resources? Are there source distributions in
the original state for example?

>From what I have seen, the combined kit has the best support for the
PDP-8/e and its devices. That's the hardware I have and so that is
what I am concentrating on.

Hoping to trigger some conversation.

-chuck

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[steven]

Bill said that Paul said:

> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>
>> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
>> >
>> > IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
>> >
>> > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
>>
>> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
>> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes
>> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
>>
>> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of
>> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
>> mentioned anywhere.
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>
> Paul,
> You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
> the page.
>
> I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be compatible
> with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
> comparable and the programs and not time dependent.
>
> Bill

Thank you for the interesting brochure Bill, as far as I know the Model 44 was
a bit of an odd duck in having a modified instruction set.

I have something relevant of my own to contribute: My dad's 360 Reference Card
with his scribbled-on annotations for the Model 44 ie, 2044 CPU:

http://web.aanet.com.au/~malikoff/ibm/IBM_System_360_Reference_Card_with_Model44_2044_CPU_annotations_by_Alec_Malikoff.pdf

The annotations are on pages 1, 2, 5 and 6. I think at least one of the 
universities here
in Oz had a Model 44, I guess he had to service it, but mainly he was a Model 
40 CE.

Steve.

Re: VAX expert 'needed'

[Antonio Carlini]

On 07/12/16 19:46, Noel Chiappa wrote:

Is there a volunteer our there to sign up as an editor there (note:
applications have to be approved, which can take a couple of days, due to
busyness on the part of the admin) to start writing up VAX content?



I have a bunch of content that I've collected over the years.

I've applied for an account. Once I have that I'll see about turning it from
whatever free-from text format I used years ago into wiki-script and then
uploading it.

It won't be exciting, but it will be data (sometimes with references too).

Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
arcarl...@iee.org

RE: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Rich Alderson]

From: Phil Budne
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 10:44 AM

> Rich Alderson wrote:

>> There are also Two-Word Global Byte Pointers (which I've never seen
>> abbreviated) which carry the standard "any size byte at any position"

> Maybe they were just Global Byte Pointers?  OWG's were a late
> addition.  I was a member of the FORTRAN-10/20 v10 project to make it
> generate/run code in extended addressing...  It's tempting to look at
> the compiler and FOROTS to see what terms we used a the time...

Both One-Word and Two-Word Global Byte Pointers were added at the same
time as extended addressing, according to the HRM.  Simple "Global Byte
Pointer" would have been inherently ambiguous.

OWGBPs were a way not to increase the memory footprint of a program when
moving it into a non-zero section,[1] at the expense of some microcode.
In theory, a binary could be patched for use in a non-zero section without
a recompile, as long as it was using 6-, 7-, 8-, 9-, or 18-bit bytes.

>> Neither of those is entirely accurate.  9-track tapes on the PDP-10 used
>> one of the following encodings:

> 8-bit characters became more important near the end of PDP-10 software
> development.  ISTR TOPS-10 getting new 8-bit I/O modes, but I have a
> vague recollection that translation between 36-bit words and mag tape
> frames was handled by the "tape formatter" hardware, which means that
> writing two words with 8 bit bytes in way that was easily legible on
> 8-bit byte oriented hardware ("high density mode" was only "legible"
> for the even words).

Yes, all the translations are handled in the formatter, which is part of
the tape controller.  To continue the example, in Industry-Compatible
format, where the ASCII characters have been moved into 8-bit bytes in
36-bt words, on 9-track tape we have "HELLOworld" as

_HHH
_EEE
_LLL
_LLL
_OOO
_www
_ooo
_rrr
_lll
_ddd

In memory, this takes 3 words:

_HHH_EEE_LLL_LLL
_OOO_www_ooo_rrr
_lll_ddd

Rich


[1] For non-PDP10 programmers:  The original architecture of the PDP-6 and
PDP-10 used an 18-bit (256KW) address space.  The KI-10 processor added
a 22-bit pager and a concept of sections to the hardware.  When the
address space was expanded to 30 bits (1MW) on the KL-10 processor (in
anticipation of the KC-10 a/k/a "Jupiter"), it was done by retaining
18-bit local addressing and adding a 12-bit section number to provide
global addresses.  Section 0 is special, working like the older 256KW
memory space; non-zero sections can reference all of memory, with an
18-bit address in a non-zero section being section local and a 30-bit
address referencing anything except section 0.


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[william degnan]

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:56 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
> >>
> >> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
> >> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself
> makes
> >> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
> >>
> >> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation
> of
> >> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
> >> mentioned anywhere.
> >>
> >>paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Paul,
> > You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
> > the page.
> >
> > I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be
> compatible
> > with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
> > comparable and the programs and not time dependent.
>
> That's true, but the wording implies that the converse holds (360/75
> programs will run on 360/44) which is usually not true.  "Compatible subset
> of the ... models" would be clearer.
>
> paul
>
>
>
Just like any older / newer computer that is in principle compatible, but
practically not really.

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Jon Elson]

On 12/08/2016 07:08 PM, dwight wrote:

Not meaning to throw things to far off but on my

NC4000 machine( 16 bit ), I found ByteSwap useful enough that I had it

hard wired.

I have an old computer that was intended to do FFTs. It has a

complete bit order swap, MSB to LSB, instruction.


Yup, this is to implement the "butterfly" mirroring of the addresses for 
the FFT.


Jon

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:56 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
>>> 
>>> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
>> 
>> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
>> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes
>> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
>> 
>> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of
>> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
>> mentioned anywhere.
>> 
>>paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Paul,
> You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
> the page.
> 
> I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be compatible
> with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
> comparable and the programs and not time dependent.

That's true, but the wording implies that the converse holds (360/75 programs 
will run on 360/44) which is usually not true.  "Compatible subset of the ... 
models" would be clearer.

paul

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[COURYHOUSE]

yes this is mentioned in the pamphlet...
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 12/9/2016 12:57:01 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
billdeg...@gmail.com writes:

>  It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation  
of
> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen  it
> mentioned anywhere.

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[william degnan]

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> >
> > IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
> >
> > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
>
> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes
> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
>
> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of
> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
> mentioned anywhere.
>
> paul
>
>
>
Paul,
You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
the page.

I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be compatible
with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
comparable and the programs and not time dependent.

Bill

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/09/2016 07:02 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

> Rather than "can't make up their mind", a good reason to have
> selectable endian processors is that the best choice may depend on
> the application.  So for embedded systems in particular, it's good to
> be able to pick which you want.

My quip was an attempt at levity.

One interesting aspect of the later ARM (e.g. Cortex M3) are the
"reverse" instructions:

REV reverses the byte order in a 32-bit words.  Thus, ABCD becomes DCBA.

REV16 reverses the byte order in each halfword of a 32 bit word, ABCD
becomes BADC.

REVSH reverses the byte order in the low-order halfword and sign extends
to 32 bits.  Thus ABCD becomes SSDC (with S symbolizing the extended
sign bit)

RBIT reverses the bit order in a 32 bit word.

So lots of choices for those who feel that variety is the spice of life.

--Chuck

RE: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Phil Budne]

Rich Alderson wrote:
> There are also Two-Word Global Byte Pointers (which I've never seen
> abbreviated) which carry the standard "any size byte at any position"

Maybe they were just Global Byte Pointers?  OWG's were a late
addition.  I was a member of the FORTRAN-10/20 v10 project to make it
generate/run code in extended addressing...  It's tempting to look at
the compiler and FOROTS to see what terms we used a the time...

> Neither of those is entirely accurate.  9-track tapes on the PDP-10 used
> one of the following encodings:

8-bit characters became more important near the end of PDP-10 software
development.  ISTR TOPS-10 getting new 8-bit I/O modes, but I have a
vague recollection that translation between 36-bit words and mag tape
frames was handled by the "tape formatter" hardware, which means that
writing two words with 8 bit bytes in way that was easily legible on
8-bit byte oriented hardware ("high density mode" was only "legible"
for the even words).

phil

Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
> 
> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659

Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was compatible 
with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes it quite clear 
that this is not so (no SS instructions).  

It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of those 
instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

paul

IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

[william degnan]

IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659

Bill

Re: hate when I run out of interrupts and exceptions

[Charles Anthony]

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Dec 2016, jim stephens wrote:
>
>> And don't have any spares on the shelf.  The title on this just was funny,
>> maybe it's time to crash, since it's late.
>> VINTAGE-DEC-DIGITAL-Empty-case-of-the-VAX-VMS-exceptions-
>> interrupts-CASE-ONLY-/
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291941009551
>> (posted for levity, no warning on this posting)
>>
>
> Thank you
> If I were to buy the case, where can I get interrupts and exceptions in
> bulk to refill it with?   Can it be done without a special tool, or do I
> need an exception handler?
>
>
>
Be sure to get NOS; the imported replacements have the wrong bus threshold
voltages.

-- Charles

Re: hate when I run out of interrupts and exceptions

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016, jim stephens wrote:

And don't have any spares on the shelf.  The title on this just was funny,
maybe it's time to crash, since it's late.
VINTAGE-DEC-DIGITAL-Empty-case-of-the-VAX-VMS-exceptions-interrupts-CASE-ONLY-/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291941009551
(posted for levity, no warning on this posting)


Thank you
If I were to buy the case, where can I get interrupts and exceptions 
in bulk to refill it with?   Can it be done without a special tool, or do 
I need an exception handler?

M8728 MK11 memory board info?

[Noel Chiappa]

So, does anyone know of any documentation (especially engineering drawings)
for the M8728, which is the 256KB board for the MK11 (originally), also later
useable in the VAX-11/750 and VAX-11/730?

The M8728 and M8750 are in fact the same PCB, with different DRAMs (16K or
64K) and different jumper configurations, and since M8750 prints are extant,
most of the M8728 is documented, but the M8728 also has some discrete
components that the M8750 lacks (I think to produce voltages used by the
earlier DRAMs that the later ones don't).

Yes, I could work this all out by tracing leads, but I'd rather not!

I have produced a table of all the jumper differences, etc and will be
creating a page to document all this, but actual documentation for the M8728
would be helpful.

Noel

PS: Does anyone know the formal names for the M8728? The 64KB board, the
M7984, is the MS11-K, but I don't know the one for the larger one (if it was
ever assigned). The M7850 seems to be called the MS750/MS730 (per the prints).

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[dwight]

Chuck

I was just trying to squeeze Peter Jennings code for the KIM-1 into a single

1K worth of EPROM that would self load. There was enough space if I didn't

include the opening moves. I wanted to use the empty space in my KIM-1 debug 
board EPROM. Some of the test use so little space. I finally split it into

two blocks. So once one gets their KIM-1 working again, they can play 
MicroChess.

I've not tried to play it yet. I have to pull out my chess board.

So, some interest in Chess playing. I have my KIM-1 working on my prototype

6532 to 6530 adapter.

Dwight


From: cctalk  on behalf of jim stephens 

Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 10:48:05 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 12/07/2016 11:03 PM, jim stephens wrote:
>
>
>
> I must have the wrong mindset.  Does computer chess hold any interest
> today?  Or is the matter of machine-over-human pretty much a fait accompli?
>
> --Chuck
>
>
I'll run thru some moves with any new chess program I find.  I'm so rusty
and try such oddball moves in messing with them that I lose too much of the
time.

I first had a copy of Sargon for the Apple 2 eons ago, and it was
impressive for the time.  Also useful for doing study of positions and the
like too.

I really like Adventure and got totally geeked out meeting Don Woods @ VCF
West (thanks guys who put on VCF West again)
Thanks
Jim

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:25 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
> On 12/08/2016 08:46 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
 I have an old computer that was intended to do FFTs. It has a 
 complete bit order swap, MSB to LSB, instruction.
>>> 
>>> Well, there's the PowerPC "endian" mode (settable in the MSR)--but
>>> it's just "sort of"--the little-endian mode simply XORs the lower 3
>>> bits of the address with 111 (i.e. "flips them").
>> 
>> Or you could use the PowerPC byte-swapped instructions (lwbrx, etc.)
> 
> Forgot to mention the ARM CPUs/MCUs.  Supports both, for people who
> can't make up their mind.

Rather than "can't make up their mind", a good reason to have selectable endian 
processors is that the best choice may depend on the application.  So for 
embedded systems in particular, it's good to be able to pick which you want.

paul

Re: Could somebody please help me identify this board?

[Chris Pye]

>> 
> Hey, just checking - I think the puzzle has already been solved twice. I 
> mentioned that I was pretty sure it's a Compugraphics board, and someone else 
> said the same thing a few days later, but neither of those posts received any 
> replies.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mike
> 

I guessing that is correct, but still have no idea what system it was intended 
for.

hate when I run out of interrupts and exceptions

[jim stephens]

And don't have any spares on the shelf.  The title on this just was funny,
maybe it's time to crash, since it's late.

VINTAGE-DEC-DIGITAL-Empty-case-of-the-VAX-VMS-exceptions-interrupts-CASE-ONLY-/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291941009551

(posted for levity, no warning on this posting)

RE: AT IBM Industrial's for sale (Ebay warning)

[Ali]

> I located the following on the 7587 specifically, and the other URL is
> related to all IBM industrials.
> 
> http://ohlandl.ipv7.net/ic_files/ref7587.html
> 
> All Industrials:
> http://ohlandl.ipv7.net/ic_files/refdisk_index.html

Well not all the industrial machines. The IBM industrial series started with 
the 553x machines (XT class) then the 753x machines (AT class) and then the 
75xx series of machines (PS/2 class w/ MCA, 486 chips and upwards into Pentiums 
and PCI). 

I have a number of 7532s (basically a rack mount 5170 w/ beefed up ventilation) 
and a 7546 (486 PS/2 MCA). However, I have been/am still looking for a 7531 
(tower version of the 7532). I had a line on one a few years back but the guy 
disappeared after his first email to me...

-Ali