Commercial AIM-65 Video Controller?

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Any idea what this thing is?

https://imgur.com/a/aNFiK

Didn't come up with much of anything with Motion Control, Inc.

I did plug it in, and it seemed to come alive. I tempted fate again and
plugged a composite video source into the input, and a monitor into the
output. One pot on top adjusts the vertical sync, apparently; other than
making the colors slightly weird, the video came through more or less the
same. The other two (marked Y and Z cal) seemed to change nothing. The
switch mounted behind the pots caused the LED display to change (as seen in
the pictures), though the switch mounted closer to the right side of the
unit seemed to make no difference.

When I get done moving, I'll dump the EPROMs and get more pictures,
especially if there's sufficient interest.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[allison via cctalk]

On 05/18/2017 03:50 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> COSMAC Elf?  :-)
Why not, or a PdP-8.  It really is not a high load operation.  It was
more about storage.


Allison

> bill
> 
> From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of geneb via cctalk 
> [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:45 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11
>
> On Thu, 18 May 2017, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
>
>> So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
>> Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
>> unfamiliar with the hearhkits
> The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You
> can't get much slower than that. :)
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

When I had my 11/34 (11/34, expansion chassis, RX01 and two RK05 drives) think 
I ran a 30a, 240v circuit for the power distribution box in the rack but it 
used way less when running. Maybe 10a max. 

Rich

Sent from Verizon/AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, May 18, 2017, Adrian Stoness via cctalk  
wrote:

Allot of then can be run on a single 15 amp circuit with a some.other stuff
on it as well

On May 18, 2017 2:58 PM, "Ali via cctalk"  wrote:

> > As for power, if you have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
> > consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
> > (Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)
> >
> > bill
>
> Out of curiosity how much power do these wee beasties consume?
>
> -Ali
>
>

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

Allot of then can be run on a single 15 amp circuit with a some.other stuff
on it as well

On May 18, 2017 2:58 PM, "Ali via cctalk"  wrote:

> > As for power, if you  have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
> > consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
> > (Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)
> >
> > bill
>
> Out of curiosity how much power do these wee beasties consume?
>
> -Ali
>
>

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[devin davison via cctalk]

I did not expect so much feedback, thanks to everyone who responded. I am
still reading over all the replies.

I am indeed looking to run the hardware for a extended duration or non stop
if I can manage to get a good bbs up and running.

Power consumption and heat output is not an issue. The machine is set up in
its own climate controlled area where it can be left to run for long
periods of time.

I am not much of a programmer. I thought about writing my own little dinky
bbs in assembly or something, but worried i would not understand how to get
information stored in a sane manner on the disks or backup to a common
format to tape. If i were to run something under 2.11bsd, i could just dump
something to tape with tar, which seems alot easier that writing everything
from scratch. It would be interesting to write it all from scratch, but i
lack the knowledge to do so at them moment.

I would like to be able to possible run other tasks on the machine while it
is running, i have a couple of terminals attached, so unix looks like it
may be the way for me to go. I have a heavy investment in RSX too though, i
have all the documentation for it here in large binders, it certainly would
be interesting to run it on an os ive not seen much of.


Still looking over my options, i will post back after i read over all the
replys better.

--Devin



On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> 
> From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of geneb via
> cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:23 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11
>
> On Thu, 18 May 2017, allison via cctalk wrote:
>
> > Never forget, BBS were about storage and cheap which at that time were
> mostly
> > opposed (disks weren't cheap!).  The amount of Ram and CPU were less
> > important
> > considering what had to be done.  Often the modem and hard disk were as
> > costly
> > as the basic system and we didn't exceed 2400 baud till '85or later.
> Most
> > anything
> > could keep up with IO at under 4800 baud.
> >
> Here's what amounts to a canonnical(sp?) list of BBS programs for a number
> of different platforms:
>
> http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/
>
> _
>
> UNAXCESS
>
> That's the one I ran on SYSTEM III based XENIX on a Tandy Model 16.
>
> bill
>

Re: AT Work Group System Voice Power voice processing boards for Unix PC 6300/7300 for sale

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

Back when the Voice Power board for the 7300/3B1 UnixPC was of mainstream
interest, I spent some time trying to obtain specifications and programming
information regarding the Western Electric DSP20 chip it used. Unlike the
DSP16 and DSP32, WE (and AT Microelectronics) did not offer the chip for
sale, and the technical documentation was unobtanium.

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of geneb via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:23 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

On Thu, 18 May 2017, allison via cctalk wrote:

> Never forget, BBS were about storage and cheap which at that time were mostly
> opposed (disks weren't cheap!).  The amount of Ram and CPU were less
> important
> considering what had to be done.  Often the modem and hard disk were as
> costly
> as the basic system and we didn't exceed 2400 baud till '85or later.  Most
> anything
> could keep up with IO at under 4800 baud.
>
Here's what amounts to a canonnical(sp?) list of BBS programs for a number
of different platforms:

http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/

_

UNAXCESS 

That's the one I ran on SYSTEM III based XENIX on a Tandy Model 16.

bill

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of geneb via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 4:19 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

> As for power, if you have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
> consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
> (Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)

I used to have an 8250 with four RA-81s and a TU-81+.  The power bills
wereimpressive. :)

__

8250 is a VAX, not a PDP-11.  I doubt it even ran off of 120v single phase.
Mine at the University certainly didn't.  I mentioned that RA's were tougher,
but I haven't used one (or owned one) for at least 10 years.  TU-81+?  I
don't remember them being real power hogs, but then I didn't power them
up unless I needed to use them.

bill

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Ed via cctalk]

we ran ours first on a hp-2000 then migrated to a hp-3000
 
final version had  100 boards on it  email  ,  multi  user  chat, poll and 
voting and much more.
yep it kicked ass!
 
The machines were  used also as  board test machines   etc  when needed
and   also some  were used as   sale   of  computer time to people tthat  
had  developed an application  and did not want to rewrite it  for a pc.
 
... and I found they were better to  just  run rather than turn  on and 
off..
but  they drew power!  and they generated heat.
 
... nothing like having a  10 platter 500 lb  drive as a leg  warmer next t
o your desk.
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
In a message dated 5/18/2017 1:23:13 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On Thu,  18 May 2017, allison via cctalk wrote:

> Never forget, BBS were  about storage and cheap which at that time were 
mostly
> opposed (disks  weren't cheap!).  The amount of Ram and CPU were less 
>  important
> considering what had to be done.  Often the modem and  hard disk were as 
> costly
> as the basic system and we didn't  exceed 2400 baud till '85or later.  
Most 
> anything
> could  keep up with IO at under 4800 baud.
>
Here's what amounts to a  canonnical(sp?) list of BBS programs for a number 
of different  platforms:

http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/

g.

--  
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of  its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go  Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect  hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A  Multi-Value database for the masses, not the  classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it  _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 5/18/2017 1:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Anyone remember Boardwatch magazine?

--Chuck
I had a subscription to Rickard's rag pretty much for the duration till 
I got my first paid Shell account @ world.std.com and left dialup behind 
for continuous connectivity (initially on a 56K ppp connection).


Mentioned that already in a separate thread.  Someone answered that 
someone may have scanned them as well in reply.

thanks
Jim

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 5/18/2017 1:06 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Ali via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:58 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: BBS software for the PDP 11


As for power, if you  have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
(Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)

bill

Out of curiosity how much power do these wee beasties consume?

___

The plate on the back of my 11/93 says 345 Watts.  That's about a fifth what 
your
wifes hair dryer draws.  Or slightly more than 3 100 watt light bulbs (which 
your
kids leave on all over the house all the time!!)

bill
The light bulbs maybe, but you also run things much higher than 350 
watts from time to time.  The hair drier is meaningless.


Most of the lights I leave on now are LED pulling 10 or less watts. The 
entire population of light bulbs in my house left on now doesn't get to 
100w anymore.


I have 2 dell 2950's that pull a large power bill.  That is near your 
345 watts each, and I am plotting to take them out and their 
replacements are Intel NUC's @ 40w each, pretty much the same go power.


the 11/93 probably isn't running as much compute power as one core of 
the 2950.  Nor possibly a Raspberry Pi.Whatever you want to do to 
convert $$ to radiant heat, I guess no one is stopping you. Running the 
old stuff for fun even for extended periods is one thing, but a BBS has 
possibly the mission to stay up.  Depending on what the OP has in mind.

thanks
Jim

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/18/2017 12:27 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> BBSs are really the thing from about 1978 to pre-internet (varied
> where you lived). Examples of the big BBS are Source, Delphi, Well,
> STD(software tool and die), and the big one Compuserve.  Small ones
> like Sage and those mentioned by inference on the Walnutcreek CD are
> the more common small guys.

I know--I ran one myself initially with an MS-DOS base and eventually
with an NT 4.0 one.  USR Couriers.

My point is that if you're talking about making something that resembles
something that was done on a PC (286/386/486), why not use a PC?

8-bit x80 BBS were generally along the lines of BYE510 affairs and were
pretty clunky.

Anyone remember Boardwatch magazine?

--Chuck

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, allison via cctalk wrote:


Never forget, BBS were about storage and cheap which at that time were mostly
opposed (disks weren't cheap!).  The amount of Ram and CPU were less 
important
considering what had to be done.  Often the modem and hard disk were as 
costly
as the basic system and we didn't exceed 2400 baud till '85or later.  Most 
anything

could keep up with IO at under 4800 baud.

Here's what amounts to a canonnical(sp?) list of BBS programs for a number 
of different platforms:


http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

As for power, if you have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power 
consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill. 
(Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)


I used to have an 8250 with four RA-81s and a TU-81+.  The power bills 
wereimpressive. :)


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Ali via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:58 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

> As for power, if you  have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
> consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
> (Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)
>
> bill

Out of curiosity how much power do these wee beasties consume?

___

The plate on the back of my 11/93 says 345 Watts.  That's about a fifth what 
your
wifes hair dryer draws.  Or slightly more than 3 100 watt light bulbs (which 
your
kids leave on all over the house all the time!!)

bill

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[allison via cctalk]

On 5/18/17 3:14 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 05/18/2017 10:44 AM, geneb wrote:


Because.  That's why. :)

Well, okay--but then let's be period-correct.  The PDP-11 dates from
1970, when, AFAIK, BBSes, if they existed, were far from what people
think they were.

I'm thinking of,say, Call Computer in Mountain View, frequented by the
HCC people.   300 baud, usually acoustic coupler-type (in 1970, the
implications of the Carterfone decision had just begun to set in.)

Mostly a real bulletin board in the sense of posting group messages.

That ran on what, an HP 3000?  And whatever happened to Alex?

--Chuck
BBSs are really the thing from about 1978 to pre-internet (varied where 
you lived).
Examples of the big BBS are Source, Delphi, Well, STD(software tool and 
die), and
the big one Compuserve.  Small ones like Sage and those mentioned by 
inference

on the Walnutcreek CD are the more common small guys.

BBSs sorta were the big deal around 1980 to 19?? and the early ones were 
mostly '
Either Z80 or 6502 based with a few others of the era.  PCs were later 
and kept it
going.  They didn't offer speed but they were the platform of the day 
and during

the clone wars (Tandy, and others) offered cheaper hardware it moved there.

Never forget, BBS were about storage and cheap which at that time were 
mostly
opposed (disks weren't cheap!).  The amount of Ram and CPU were less 
important
considering what had to be done.  Often the modem and hard disk were as 
costly
as the basic system and we didn't exceed 2400 baud till '85or later.  
Most anything

could keep up with IO at under 4800 baud.



Allison

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[allison via cctalk]

On 5/18/17 3:19 PM, geneb via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2017, allison via cctalk wrote:




On 5/18/17 12:51 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those 
that are

unfamiliar with the hearhkits

No,  BBSs were run with 4mhz Z80s...  compared to LSI-11 (H11 or 
PDP11/03)
The -11 is a bit faster.  The H11 was not slower, the ram used didn't 
inject

bus waits.

...and 2Mhz Z-80s.  The first Citadel appeared on a bone stock H-89 
with a pair of hard-sectored floppy drives.  I think Ward's original 
S-100 box was that clock or maybe slower, using an 8080.


Wards S100 crate started with a 2mhz 8080 and not a full rack of ram 
(64K for then was full rack.).

Most moved to Z80 at 4MHZ by 1979 as they were common by then.

The speed needed to handle one line at speeds below 2400 was not a 
stress, there were 6800

based boards.

Allison


g.

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[allison via cctalk]

On 5/18/17 1:53 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:



On 5/18/2017 9:51 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that 
are

unfamiliar with the hearhkits

My take and extension on Chuck's and Allison's question is that you 
can take a USB R232 dongle, and a 56k modem (if your pots line still 
supports it, 33k if not (hopefully), and run a BBS on a Raspberry Pi 
if nothing else for nothing in power and infrastructure cost.


An 11 is novel, but hard to see why running it on simh wouldn't be a 
better deal if you want something on the pdp11 architecture.


Keeping any PDP11 up 24 / 7 so it is a useful BBS isn't an undertaking 
for the faint hearted, nor is it something easy on the pocketbook in 
the way of power.  (not to mention space possibly).


Actually a 11/23 with RQDX (or scsi) hard disks can be one paltry BA23 
and fairly

low total power needs.  I have such a beast, MicroPDP-11, 11/23+, 4MB ram,
RQDX3 with RD52(31mb), RX33(5.25 two side floppy).  Its small and has 
the pedestal
case to it is in the corner of a bedroom with a VT320 ( and I think 
still I have a DF03).
 Sucks down about the same power as an old 486 loaded tower with about 
the same
disks (around 160-300W).   Qbus machine help with that.  One with an 
11/73 board

would be fast.

A larger machine with Rk, RL or RM drives will be power hungry.

IF VAX based, a 3100 or related series would do that with minimal pain.

Older boxen like 11/34 or 11/40 are going to suck down watts and need AC.

Allison
Unless you are a couple of well known museums and others very few do 
the real hardware.

thanks
Jim


On May 18, 2017 11:45 AM, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" 


wrote:


On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?

You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.

--Chuck

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Ali via cctalk]

> As for power, if you  have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
> consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
> (Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)
> 
> bill

Out of curiosity how much power do these wee beasties consume? 

-Ali

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of jim stephens via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:53 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

On 5/18/2017 9:51 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
> So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
> Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
> unfamiliar with the hearhkits
>
My take and extension on Chuck's and Allison's question is that you can
take a USB R232 dongle, and a 56k modem (if your pots line still
supports it, 33k if not (hopefully), and run a BBS on a Raspberry Pi if
nothing else for nothing in power and infrastructure cost.

An 11 is novel, but hard to see why running it on simh wouldn't be a
better deal if you want something on the pdp11 architecture.

Keeping any PDP11 up 24 / 7 so it is a useful BBS isn't an undertaking
for the faint hearted, nor is it something easy on the pocketbook in the
way of power.  (not to mention space possibly).

Unless you are a couple of well known museums and others very few do the
real hardware.
_

I still do.  I have an 11/93 in a pedestal standing right next to me now.

As for power, if you  have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power consumption
is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill. (Unless your trying to 
do
it with RA disks!!)

bill

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

COSMAC Elf?  :-)

bill

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of geneb via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

> So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
> Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
> unfamiliar with the hearhkits

The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You
can't get much slower than that. :)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Do you have any idea how many PDP-11's were used by NASA for things
like controlling deep space probes and putting men on the moon?  A BBS
is a vewry low demand task and could easily be handled by the smallest
of the LSI-11 family.

bill


From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Adrian Stoness via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:51 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
unfamiliar with the hearhkits



On May 18, 2017 11:45 AM, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" 
wrote:

> On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
>
> > The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?
>
> You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Chuck Guzis

> Well, okay--but then let's be period-correct. The PDP-11 dates from
> 1970, when, AFAIK, BBSes, if they existed, were far from what people
> think they were.

You're thinking of the -11/20, released in 1970. But that was only the first
PDP-11 model; the -11/23 dates from 1979, and the last -11 model, the
/93-/94, was released in 1990.

Noel

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:45 PM, geneb via cctalk  wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2017, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
>
>> So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things?
>
> The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You can't
> get much slower than that. :)

The VIC-20 is just a 1MHz 6502.  Lots of machines at that performance
point, including the Apple II and Atari 400/800, used for BBSing.

-ethan

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, allison via cctalk wrote:




On 5/18/17 12:51 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
unfamiliar with the hearhkits


No,  BBSs were run with 4mhz Z80s...  compared to LSI-11 (H11 or PDP11/03)
The -11 is a bit faster.  The H11 was not slower, the ram used didn't inject
bus waits.

...and 2Mhz Z-80s.  The first Citadel appeared on a bone stock H-89 with a 
pair of hard-sectored floppy drives.  I think Ward's original S-100 box 
was that clock or maybe slower, using an 8080.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/18/2017 10:44 AM, geneb wrote:

> Because.  That's why. :)

Well, okay--but then let's be period-correct.  The PDP-11 dates from
1970, when, AFAIK, BBSes, if they existed, were far from what people
think they were.

I'm thinking of,say, Call Computer in Mountain View, frequented by the
HCC people.   300 baud, usually acoustic coupler-type (in 1970, the
implications of the Carterfone decision had just begun to set in.)

Mostly a real bulletin board in the sense of posting group messages.

That ran on what, an HP 3000?  And whatever happened to Alex?

--Chuck

Re: AT Work Group System Voice Power voice processing boards for Unix PC 6300/7300 for sale

[Ian via cctalk]

Thanks Sellam. Still a cool product but I got all excited for a second thinking 
you had found the Unix PC cards. :)

Hopefully someone can put them to good use now that the addressable market is 
much larger...



Get Outlook for Android


From: Sellam Ismail 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:04:12 PM
To: Ian Finder
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: AT Work Group System Voice Power voice processing boards for 
Unix PC 6300/7300 for sale

Forgive me, Ian is correct. I made some assumptions about these boards that I 
had from when I first acquired them: that they naturally worked in the AT 
Unix PCs.

It turns out they do in fact operate in a DOS environment. Here's a blurb about 
them from 1988:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5z4EMBAJ=PA27=PA27=at%26t+work+group+system+voice+power=bl=fsvhFQxsdY=KgEw4u1p_Ev8AyyYGNR-uYrtSDA=en=X=0ahUKEwjN7cyMkPrTAhUU-mMKHYQNCuEQ6AEIHzAB#v=onepage=at%26t%20work%20group%20system%20voice%20power=false

Thanks for the correction, Ian.

Sellam

On May 18, 2017 11:56 AM, "Ian Finder" 
> wrote:
Do not buy these expecting the UnixPC product, like Sellam has specified. They 
are for a 386 intel/isa machine.

Also in the title, which is confusing, Sellam has also written 6300, which is 
an AT 8086 PC clone that MAY have ISA and is not a UnixPC. It will *also* not 
support this card as a 386 is required.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Ian Finder 
> wrote:
These are clearly for a PC. It's an ISA card and says "386" on it.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Sellam Ismail via cctalk 
> wrote:
I have two of these available for sale. Details here:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57816-AT-amp-T-Work-Group-System-Voice-Power-voice-processing-boards-for-Unix-PC-6300-7300=461052#post461052

Thanks!

Sellam



--
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com



--
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: AT Work Group System Voice Power voice processing boards for Unix PC 6300/7300 for sale

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Forgive me, Ian is correct. I made some assumptions about these boards that
I had from when I first acquired them: that they naturally worked in the
AT Unix PCs.

It turns out they do in fact operate in a DOS environment. Here's a blurb
about them from 1988:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5z4EMBAJ=PA27=PA27=at%26t+work+group+system+voice+power=bl=fsvhFQxsdY=KgEw4u1p_Ev8AyyYGNR-uYrtSDA=en=X=0ahUKEwjN7cyMkPrTAhUU-mMKHYQNCuEQ6AEIHzAB#v=onepage=at%26t%20work%20group%20system%20voice%20power=false

Thanks for the correction, Ian.

Sellam

On May 18, 2017 11:56 AM, "Ian Finder"  wrote:

> Do not buy these expecting the UnixPC product, like Sellam has specified.
> They are for a 386 intel/isa machine.
>
> Also in the title, which is confusing, Sellam has also written 6300, which
> is an AT 8086 PC clone that MAY have ISA and is not a UnixPC. It will
> *also* not support this card as a 386 is required.
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Ian Finder  wrote:
>
>> These are clearly for a PC. It's an ISA card and says "386" on it.
>>
>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Sellam Ismail via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have two of these available for sale. Details here:
>>>
>>> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57816-AT-amp-T-Wor
>>> k-Group-System-Voice-Power-voice-processing-boards-for-Unix-
>>> PC-6300-7300=461052#post461052
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Sellam
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>Ian Finder
>>(206) 395-MIPS
>>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[allison via cctalk]

On 5/18/17 12:51 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
unfamiliar with the hearhkits


No,  BBSs were run with 4mhz Z80s...  compared to LSI-11 (H11 or PDP11/03)
The -11 is a bit faster.  The H11 was not slower, the ram used didn't inject
bus waits.

Actually the limiting item back then as disk performance.  The later 
hard disks

(rd50 to 54, RD31, RD32, RZxxx) really can help.

Allison



On May 18, 2017 11:45 AM, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" 
wrote:


On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?

You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.

--Chuck

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Mike Whalen wrote:


The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You
can't get much slower than that. :)


In New Orleans, there was a rumor someone ran a VIC-20 BBS with no
persistent storage.

Maybe true but you also might not be able to tell!


I seem to recall hearing the same thing.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: AT Work Group System Voice Power voice processing boards for Unix PC 6300/7300 for sale

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

Do not buy these expecting the UnixPC product, like Sellam has specified.
They are for a 386 intel/isa machine.

Also in the title, which is confusing, Sellam has also written 6300, which
is an AT 8086 PC clone that MAY have ISA and is not a UnixPC. It will
*also* not support this card as a 386 is required.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Ian Finder  wrote:

> These are clearly for a PC. It's an ISA card and says "386" on it.
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Sellam Ismail via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> I have two of these available for sale. Details here:
>>
>> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57816-AT-amp-T-Wor
>> k-Group-System-Voice-Power-voice-processing-boards-for-Unix-
>> PC-6300-7300=461052#post461052
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Sellam
>>
>
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: AT Work Group System Voice Power voice processing boards for Unix PC 6300/7300 for sale

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

These are clearly for a PC. It's an ISA card and says "386" on it.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Sellam Ismail via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I have two of these available for sale. Details here:
>
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57816-AT-amp-T-
> Work-Group-System-Voice-Power-voice-processing-boards-for-
> Unix-PC-6300-7300=461052#post461052
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sellam
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 5/18/2017 10:52 AM, Mike Whalen via cctalk wrote:

The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You
can't get much slower than that. :)


In New Orleans, there was a rumor someone ran a VIC-20 BBS with no
persistent storage.

Maybe true but you also might not be able to tell!
I don't recall the storage or the location, but I do recall some screen 
shots or publicity claiming that.

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 5/18/2017 9:51 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
unfamiliar with the hearhkits

My take and extension on Chuck's and Allison's question is that you can 
take a USB R232 dongle, and a 56k modem (if your pots line still 
supports it, 33k if not (hopefully), and run a BBS on a Raspberry Pi if 
nothing else for nothing in power and infrastructure cost.


An 11 is novel, but hard to see why running it on simh wouldn't be a 
better deal if you want something on the pdp11 architecture.


Keeping any PDP11 up 24 / 7 so it is a useful BBS isn't an undertaking 
for the faint hearted, nor is it something easy on the pocketbook in the 
way of power.  (not to mention space possibly).


Unless you are a couple of well known museums and others very few do the 
real hardware.

thanks
Jim


On May 18, 2017 11:45 AM, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" 
wrote:


On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?

You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.

--Chuck

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Mike Whalen via cctalk]

> The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You
> can't get much slower than that. :)
>
In New Orleans, there was a rumor someone ran a VIC-20 BBS with no
persistent storage.

Maybe true but you also might not be able to tell!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Shoppa, Tim via cctalk]

I know of several very different PDP-11 BBS's using very disparate 
architectures. Some were run on RT-11 or RSTS-11 entirely inside a BASIC 
program that managed every element of call answering, logging in, and 
disconnection. And others took advantage of TSX-11, RSX-11 and RSTS-11 login 
security and "captive accounts" that were either entirely menu-driven or had 
restricted command sets, with the menu options or command sets oriented 
strongly towards typical BBS functions.

I know Billy Youdelman's TSX-11 BBS in LA was operating in the 1980's and 
1990's and may have gone on longer than that.

Tim N3QE

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:


So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
unfamiliar with the hearhkits


The machine is plenty fast.  There's been BBSes run on a VIC-20.  You 
can't get much slower than that. :)


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:


On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?


You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.


Because.  That's why. :)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

So a 11/03 aka a lsi11 would be to slow for such things? Such as those
Heathkit h11 lsi11 macheans? Witch was a hobyist pdp11 for those that are
unfamiliar with the hearhkits



On May 18, 2017 11:45 AM, "Chuck Guzis via cctalk" 
wrote:

> On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
>
> > The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?
>
> You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/18/2017 08:16 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?

You put the words into my mouth.  Thank you.

--Chuck

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[allison via cctalk]

On 5/18/17 9:45 AM, william degnan via cctalk wrote:



There may have been Rainbow BBS programs, but I doubt anything for the

11/34.  You may have to write this.


That reminds me of a bit of obscure trivia...

Back in the early days of FidoNet, one or more of the Fido BBS sysops had
DEC Rainbows.  The machines could run Fido just fine, but the serial port
address/port didn't follow the convention laid down by the IBM PC.  At the
time, there were other MS-DOS compatibles that also had a similar issue
with the serial port and some of those folks wanted to run Fido.

Tom Jennings, Wynn Waggoner III(sp?) and Thom Henderson(sp?) got together
to create the FOSSIL standard.

FOSSIL is Fido Opus Seadog Serial Interface Layer and provided a mechanism
via INT 14 for any MS-DOS compatible computer to run any BBS or mailer
software that had FOSSIL support and a FOSSIL driver available for it.

FOSSIL continued to be a thing long after the issue of serial port
incompatibility was a thing of the past.  In fact there's modern software
out there now such as NetFossil that telnet-enables software that can talk
to a FOSSIL driver.

The two popular FOSSIL drivers that I recall from back in the day were BNU
and Ray Gwinn's X00.

As an aside, if anyone has or knows where I can find the source code for
Opus BBS, I'd be interested in hearing from you!




That's what I was thinking.  I have some FidoNET files and mail from the
Rainbow.  My guess the BBS would have been written in Pascal or C if for
the Rainbow (guess only) so if you wanted to attempt to port, after you
find a Rainbow BBS?  I'd start with a Rainbow BBS disassembly/decompile and
see if you can convert to the PDP 11 running the same language/compile it.
Strongest comment on this is that a Rainbow ran DOS (like most PCs of 
the day)
and there was no security context and barely a foreground background as 
part

of DOS.

All a DOS BBS was  was a user interface that provided security by 
requiring user/password
and limiting the commands usable.  The easy was to do that was a version 
of the CMD module

rewritten to not have things like RMDIR and DEL.

FYI BBSs were running on CP/M z80 boxes before that using BYE.

The closest OS to DOS is RT11, no security and the FB monitor can do 
background.
IF the UI for RT11 was rewritten to disallow some utilities and what not 
it could then
stand as a limited BBS.Myself I'd consider RSX or RSTS as a better 
platform as you can
easily control user prives and issue accounts based on privs with 
libraries for global

access to software.

The real question is why BBS?  What is it trying to fix or enable?

Allison

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On May 18, 2017, at 11:37 AM, John Wilson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> As an RTS?  Wow, that's doing it the hard way.  In either RT or RSX
>> emulation it would be easier, you have a friendlier development
>> environment that way.  I've done an application as an RTS in the long-ago
>> past (an implementation of QUBIC, 3D 4x4x4x tic-tac-toe for a classmate)
>> but that was on V5B, where an RTS was the only way to do assembly
>> programming on RSTS.
> 
> This was for the command-line interface, which I needed to be absolutely,
> totally, seriously ^C and ^^C proof if I was going to let random outsiders
> dial up my RSTS machine.  It worked nicely ...

Oh yes, that would be a possible reason.  Binary mode I/O will also do that, 
though at a price that may be too high.  Finally, in V9.0 and later, you can 
use a captive account to ensure that it can't escape the login.com file, which 
means that control/c may abort the program but it won't let the user into 
places you don't want to allow.

paul

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Lyle Bickley via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017 09:14:24 -0400
Systems Glitch via cctalk  wrote:

> > BSD 2.11 should run fine on a 34 or 23  
> 
> You need split I for 2.11BSD, that rules out the 11/23 and IIRC the
> 11/34 as well. I want to say 2.9BSD will run though.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan

I run BSD 2.9 on my 11/34C (w/max. mem.) & DZ using (2) RL02s with up to
three TTY sessions. It's a bit "sluggish" (by today's standards). TSX
Plus with three TTY sessions runs much faster on the same hardware.

Cheers,
Lyle

-- 
73  AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 18/05/2017 14:45, william degnan via cctalk wrote:



There may have been Rainbow BBS programs, but I doubt anything for the

11/34.  You may have to write this.


That reminds me of a bit of obscure trivia...

Back in the early days of FidoNet, one or more of the Fido BBS sysops had
DEC Rainbows.  The machines could run Fido just fine, but the serial port
address/port didn't follow the convention laid down by the IBM PC.  At the
time, there were other MS-DOS compatibles that also had a similar issue
with the serial port and some of those folks wanted to run Fido.

Tom Jennings, Wynn Waggoner III(sp?) and Thom Henderson(sp?) got together
to create the FOSSIL standard.

FOSSIL is Fido Opus Seadog Serial Interface Layer and provided a mechanism
via INT 14 for any MS-DOS compatible computer to run any BBS or mailer
software that had FOSSIL support and a FOSSIL driver available for it.

FOSSIL continued to be a thing long after the issue of serial port
incompatibility was a thing of the past.  In fact there's modern software
out there now such as NetFossil that telnet-enables software that can talk
to a FOSSIL driver.

The two popular FOSSIL drivers that I recall from back in the day were BNU
and Ray Gwinn's X00.

As an aside, if anyone has or knows where I can find the source code for
Opus BBS, I'd be interested in hearing from you!




That's what I was thinking.  I have some FidoNET files and mail from the
Rainbow.  My guess the BBS would have been written in Pascal or C if for
the Rainbow (guess only) so if you wanted to attempt to port, after you
find a Rainbow BBS?  I'd start with a Rainbow BBS disassembly/decompile and
see if you can convert to the PDP 11 running the same language/compile it.
Tom wrote it in C .Lattice I think. He lost most of the source in a disk 
crash some years back.

I may a copy of the run time version on one of my Rainbows.

Rod

--
There is no wrong or right
Nor black and white.
Just darknessand light

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[John Wilson via cctalk]

Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>As an RTS?  Wow, that's doing it the hard way.  In either RT or RSX
>emulation it would be easier, you have a friendlier development
>environment that way.  I've done an application as an RTS in the long-ago
>past (an implementation of QUBIC, 3D 4x4x4x tic-tac-toe for a classmate)
>but that was on V5B, where an RTS was the only way to do assembly
>programming on RSTS.

This was for the command-line interface, which I needed to be absolutely,
totally, seriously ^C and ^^C proof if I was going to let random outsiders
dial up my RSTS machine.  It worked nicely ...

John Wilson
D Bit

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Systems Glitch

> You need split I for 2.11BSD

ISTR reading that the network code runs in Supervisor mode, so you need that
to, technically (although all -11s CPUs with Supervisor also have I+D, and
vice versa).

Does the 2.9 include networking code? If so, it must use overlays like
crazy on a 'small' machine (/40-/34/-/23)...

Noel

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:07:03AM -0700, geneb via cctalk wrote:


I'd be surprised if you did.  This is however, an excellent opportunity to
write your own. :)  (At least to me, it would be a fun project.)



FACEBK-11

*ducks*


You can run, but you can't hide. :)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:07:03AM -0700, geneb via cctalk wrote:
> 
> I'd be surprised if you did.  This is however, an excellent opportunity to
> write your own. :)  (At least to me, it would be a fun project.)
> 

FACEBK-11

*ducks*

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
would preclude this.  I did it on a SYS III Xenix clone).  BSD 2.11 
should run fine on a 34 or 23 and there is always Ultrix-11 which I have


No, it doesn't. 2.9BSD, yes, but not 2.11BSD as it requires split I/D and 
more than 128 kwords of memory.


Christian

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Systems Glitch via cctalk
 wrote:
>> BSD 2.11 should run fine on a 34 or 23
>
> You need split I for 2.11BSD, that rules out the 11/23 and IIRC the 11/34 
> as well.

Yep.

> I want to say 2.9BSD will run though.

Yep, but you might not be happy running it on the 11/34 since it's
limited to 248K of RAM (back in the day, I ran 2.9BSD on an 11/24
because it was Unibus and I could put a couple of MB in it).  It will
install and boot and run, but be tight.  Same goes for using an RL02
as the install volume.  You can install to it but it's really not
enough space to install everything and recompile the kernel.  RK07 is
fine.

-ethan

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 May 2017, william degnan wrote:





That's what I was thinking.  I have some FidoNET files and mail from the
Rainbow.  My guess the BBS would have been written in Pascal or C if for
the Rainbow (guess only) so if you wanted to attempt to port, after you
find a Rainbow BBS?  I'd start with a Rainbow BBS disassembly/decompile and
see if you can convert to the PDP 11 running the same language/compile it.

Well a Rainbow specific bbs program isn't going to really help him at all 
- technically, any bbs source he can find in a language that's available 
on the 11/34 could be used for the purposes of porting.


g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Wed, 17 May 2017, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:

If someone had done such, it might have been in boardwatch if anywhere.  I 
tossed tons of those in previous moves, so can't help with that.  Plus as has 
been stated it would have been rare, and looking  thru paper copies would be 
a long process and probably turn up little.


hopefully if you find Boardwatch digitally somewhere, or information derived 
from there you can turn up some things.



http://www.bombjack.org/generic/generic-magazines-telecommunications.htm

If anyone out there reading this has more copies of Boardwatch or those 
other magazines, please consider sending them to bombjack.org for 
scanning.  He does excellent non-destructive scanning.


g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[william degnan via cctalk]

>
>
>
> There may have been Rainbow BBS programs, but I doubt anything for the
>> 11/34.  You may have to write this.
>>
>
> That reminds me of a bit of obscure trivia...
>
> Back in the early days of FidoNet, one or more of the Fido BBS sysops had
> DEC Rainbows.  The machines could run Fido just fine, but the serial port
> address/port didn't follow the convention laid down by the IBM PC.  At the
> time, there were other MS-DOS compatibles that also had a similar issue
> with the serial port and some of those folks wanted to run Fido.
>
> Tom Jennings, Wynn Waggoner III(sp?) and Thom Henderson(sp?) got together
> to create the FOSSIL standard.
>
> FOSSIL is Fido Opus Seadog Serial Interface Layer and provided a mechanism
> via INT 14 for any MS-DOS compatible computer to run any BBS or mailer
> software that had FOSSIL support and a FOSSIL driver available for it.
>
> FOSSIL continued to be a thing long after the issue of serial port
> incompatibility was a thing of the past.  In fact there's modern software
> out there now such as NetFossil that telnet-enables software that can talk
> to a FOSSIL driver.
>
> The two popular FOSSIL drivers that I recall from back in the day were BNU
> and Ray Gwinn's X00.
>
> As an aside, if anyone has or knows where I can find the source code for
> Opus BBS, I'd be interested in hearing from you!
>
>
>
That's what I was thinking.  I have some FidoNET files and mail from the
Rainbow.  My guess the BBS would have been written in Pascal or C if for
the Rainbow (guess only) so if you wanted to attempt to port, after you
find a Rainbow BBS?  I'd start with a Rainbow BBS disassembly/decompile and
see if you can convert to the PDP 11 running the same language/compile it.

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi all,

Sorry for this long wait. Because of some family problems combined with 
a big professional project I had to put this project on hold. However I 
intend to continue this restoration with detailed photos and all the 
continuation of the adventure with a lot of informations ;-)


Since my lasts posts on cctalk I received the schematics of a DG Nova 
1200, all the information I needed to repair the power supply are in 
this documentation. However it is a very complex system of voltage 
regulation and because I am not a professional electronics technician, I 
have not yet found the origin of the power loss that results in the 
state of "Power Fail" (To be precise : it is when the computer is 
populated with more than 2 or 3 boards. Any board).


It is also because i have not currently enough time to search the 
problem in "blind mode" : De-solder all the transistors to search and 
evaluate a possible leaking, replace all the suspect capacitor (just to 
replace the big ones it cost more than 200$) etc..


But be patient ;-) I'm determined to continue the adventure soon as 
possible.


Thanks for your interest !

Dominique


On 18/05/2017 05:29, AJ Palmgren wrote:

Dominique,

I'm quite interested in seeing your Entrex/Nixdorf system restored.  
Please keep us updated here.  Nice work saving these rare items!


I've done some of my own work restoring a DG Nova-type system.  ( 
http://Point4iris.com ). I'd love to see if there's any way I could help.


I'll read Christian Kennedy's response here, as he seems FAR more 
familiar and knowledgeable than I am here, but if I can add value in 
any way, I would love to.


Best,
-AJ

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
> wrote:


Hi guys !

My name is Dominique, 43 , from Belgium (I apologize in advance
for my approximate English). I join this forum under the
recommendations of Curious Marc. It seems there are people here
who can help me to get back to life the venerable machine that I
have just recovered.

Some pictures of the beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg

>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg

>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg

>

It is a "Nixdor 600 series" (Apparently a Nixdorf 620/35),
upgraded several times until 1980, the CPU board is dated from
this year. So I do not know exactly what machine it is today the
equivalent.

Anyway, the Nixdorf 620 is actually built by "Digital Computer
Controls" and after some researches it seems that it is a "DCC-116
E", the 17 slot version of the "DCC-116" which Is a clone of the
"Data General Nova 2/10".

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg

>

The machine has five Key-stations (ENTREX DATA/SCOPE), a Mag-tape
Pertec 8840A - A Disk Cartridge Diablo Model 40 and a big line
drum printer (Data Products model 2230), strange machine, there is
a tape reader inside the printer.

Here is the list of the boards I have with the references written
on them and their position in the machine:

*17HEX 0 – 15 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A*

*16HEX 16 30 31 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A**
15OPTION 2  Empty**
14OPTION 1  Empty**
13PRINTER   ENTREX INC SN598**
12TAPE 556/800 BPI 2433 LFI 213**
11TAPE 1600 BPI  Empty**
10DISK   2456 00 MP-Kontroller
D44an620 6393500215  2456 7 0 1577**
09COMMO Empty**
08SCANNER  Scanner BD 2431 NCAG 54147.1.15
2431 02394**
07MEM   1609 0 7 02616**
06MEM   Empty**
05MEM   1609 0 8 02367**
04MEM   1615 01 9 5596**
03TTY Empty**
02DO NOT USE Empty**
01C.P.  1509 05 4 04436*

Concerning this I also ask a few questions:

 *

   

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Wed, 17 May 2017, william degnan via cctalk wrote:


There may have been Rainbow BBS programs, but I doubt anything for the
11/34.  You may have to write this.


That reminds me of a bit of obscure trivia...

Back in the early days of FidoNet, one or more of the Fido BBS sysops had 
DEC Rainbows.  The machines could run Fido just fine, but the serial port 
address/port didn't follow the convention laid down by the IBM PC.  At the 
time, there were other MS-DOS compatibles that also had a similar issue 
with the serial port and some of those folks wanted to run Fido.


Tom Jennings, Wynn Waggoner III(sp?) and Thom Henderson(sp?) got together 
to create the FOSSIL standard.


FOSSIL is Fido Opus Seadog Serial Interface Layer and provided a mechanism 
via INT 14 for any MS-DOS compatible computer to run any BBS or mailer 
software that had FOSSIL support and a FOSSIL driver available for it.


FOSSIL continued to be a thing long after the issue of serial port 
incompatibility was a thing of the past.  In fact there's modern software 
out there now such as NetFossil that telnet-enables software that can talk 
to a FOSSIL driver.


The two popular FOSSIL drivers that I recall from back in the day were 
BNU and Ray Gwinn's X00.


As an aside, if anyone has or knows where I can find the source code for 
Opus BBS, I'd be interested in hearing from you!


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Systems Glitch via cctalk]

> BSD 2.11 should run fine on a 34 or 23

You need split I for 2.11BSD, that rules out the 11/23 and IIRC the 11/34 as 
well. I want to say 2.9BSD will run though.

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi,

I saw this ad but the shipping costs until Belgium decided me to react 
as if I had not seen anything ^^


It's a pity, I would have taken a few boards.


On 18/05/2017 06:05, AJ Palmgren wrote:

My search for this was prompted by my seeing one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282462822861

Did anyone here purchase it, or know who did?  Just curious, since 
these seem so rare and interesting.


Best,
-AJ

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:29 PM, AJ Palmgren > wrote:


Dominique,

I'm quite interested in seeing your Entrex/Nixdorf system
restored.  Please keep us updated here.  Nice work saving these
rare items!

I've done some of my own work restoring a DG Nova-type system.  (
http://Point4iris.com ).  I'd love to see if there's any way I
could help.

I'll read Christian Kennedy's response here, as he seems FAR more
familiar and knowledgeable than I am here, but if I can add value
in any way, I would love to.

Best,
-AJ

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk
> wrote:

Hi guys !

My name is Dominique, 43 , from Belgium (I apologize in
advance for my approximate English). I join this forum under
the recommendations of Curious Marc. It seems there are people
here who can help me to get back to life the venerable machine
that I have just recovered.

Some pictures of the beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg

>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg

>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg

>

It is a "Nixdor 600 series" (Apparently a Nixdorf 620/35),
upgraded several times until 1980, the CPU board is dated from
this year. So I do not know exactly what machine it is today
the equivalent.

Anyway, the Nixdorf 620 is actually built by "Digital Computer
Controls" and after some researches it seems that it is a
"DCC-116 E", the 17 slot version of the "DCC-116" which Is a
clone of the "Data General Nova 2/10".

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg

>

The machine has five Key-stations (ENTREX DATA/SCOPE), a
Mag-tape Pertec 8840A - A Disk Cartridge Diablo Model 40 and a
big line drum printer (Data Products model 2230), strange
machine, there is a tape reader inside the printer.

Here is the list of the boards I have with the references
written on them and their position in the machine:

*17HEX 0 – 15 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002
REV A*

*16HEX 16 30 31 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A**
15OPTION 2  Empty**
14OPTION 1  Empty**
13PRINTER   ENTREX INC SN598**
12TAPE 556/800 BPI 2433 LFI 213**
11TAPE 1600 BPI  Empty**
10DISK   2456 00 MP-Kontroller
D44an620 6393500215  2456 7 0 1577**
09COMMO Empty**
08SCANNER  Scanner BD 2431 NCAG 54147.1.15
2431 02394**
07MEM   1609 0 7 02616**
06MEM   Empty**
05MEM   1609 0 8 02367**
04MEM   1615 01 9 5596**
03TTY Empty**
02DO NOT USE Empty**
01C.P.  1509 05 4 04436*

Concerning this I also ask a few questions:

 *

   What are the boards in slots 16 and 17 for?

 *

   I do not have a COM card, does that mean that I could not
attempt a
   serial transmission (type rs232) with this actual setup ?

 *

   I have no idea how many kilobytes are present, apparently
there are
   two core memory cards (8kb each? 16Kb 

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[geneb via cctalk]

On Wed, 17 May 2017, devin davison via cctalk wrote:


I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
the whole machine.

Any suggestions? i have not had much luck finding anything.


I'd be surprised if you did.  This is however, an excellent opportunity to 
write your own. :)  (At least to me, it would be a fun project.)


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On May 18, 2017, at 1:26 AM, John Wilson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 08:45:39PM -0400, devin davison via cctalk wrote:
>> I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
>> to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
>> the whole machine.
> 
> A krillion years ago I wrote about half of a BBS for my 11/34a, which
> ran (as an RTS) under RSTS V7.0-07.  I'd love to finish it ...

As an RTS?  Wow, that's doing it the hard way.  In either RT or RSX emulation 
it would be easier, you have a friendlier development environment that way.  
I've done an application as an RTS in the long-ago past (an implementation of 
QUBIC, 3D 4x4x4x tic-tac-toe for a classmate) but that was on V5B, where an RTS 
was the only way to do assembly programming on RSTS.

paul

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2017-05-18 1:26 AM, John Wilson via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 08:45:39PM -0400, devin davison via cctalk wrote:

I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
the whole machine.


A krillion years ago I wrote about half of a BBS for my 11/34a, which
ran (as an RTS) under RSTS V7.0-07.  I'd love to finish it ...



Throw it up on github and invite contributors?

--T


John Wilson
D Bit

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Cameron Kaiser via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:13 AM
To: rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

> > > I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
> > > to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
> > > the whole machine.
> >
> > A krillion years ago I wrote about half of a BBS for my 11/34a, which
> > ran (as an RTS) under RSTS V7.0-07.  I'd love to finish it ...
>
> So whats stopping you?

Retirement?



John, retire?  Fat chance of that.

bill

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Rod Smallwood via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:21 AM
To: Zane Healy; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

On 18/05/2017 04:58, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>> On May 17, 2017, at 5:45 PM, devin davison via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
>> to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
>> the whole machine.
>>
>> Any suggestions? i have not had much luck finding anything.
>>
>> --Devin
> There may be something for RSTS/E.  That seems like the OS most likely to 
> have such software.  You might also find some old UNIX source code that might 
> compile on BSD2.11.
>
> Zane
>
>
>
I ran Fido on a DEC Rainbow in the early 80's.
Almost all of the BBS's were on PC's and accessed by telephone dial up.
Mail was sent by toll free zone hopping.

It was purely an amateur hobby thing.

The mini and mainframe world was too much of an expensive place for the
happy hobby hacker!!
Hence little or nothing by way of BBS's on PDP-11 and above.

__

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I had Unix in my house from 1984 on.
And, I ran a BBS (over a local lan using Sytek boxes which were serial
connections) at the place I worked, a campus.  Worked quite well.

bill

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Ed via cctalk]

added info  this  would have  been  for  
_RSTS_ (http://www.dmv.net/dec/pdf/rsts80rmsintro.pdf)  of course.
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  

 
 
In a message dated 5/18/2017 4:51:21 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

back in  the 80s there was a  fellow  at  dec mark huntwrote a bbs  for 
 
the   11/70 ... wonder what  ever  happened  to  Mark?

Ed#  _www.smecc.org_  (http://www.smecc.org)  


In a message dated 5/17/2017 11:30:29  P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org  writes:

On Thu,  May 18, 2017 at 06:38:24AM +0100, Rod Smallwood  wrote:
>So whats  stopping you?

That question applies to so  much ...

John  Wilson
D  Bit

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Ed via cctalk]

back in the 80s there was a  fellow  at  dec mark hunt   wrote a bbs  for  
the   11/70 ... wonder what ever  happened  to  Mark?
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 5/17/2017 11:30:29 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On Thu,  May 18, 2017 at 06:38:24AM +0100, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>So whats  stopping you?

That question applies to so much ...

John  Wilson
D Bit

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Well, that would depend on the OS in use.  There are BBS programs for Unix.
I used one that came from one of the sources newsgroups decades ago and it
worked really well (I never tried on a PDP-11 but there was nothing in it that
would preclude this.  I did it on a SYS III Xenix clone).  BSD 2.11 should run
fine on a 34 or 23 and there is always Ultrix-11 which I have certainly run on
the 23.

bill


From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of william degnan via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:24 PM
To: devin davison; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

There may have been Rainbow BBS programs, but I doubt anything for the
11/34.  You may have to write this.
b

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:45 PM, devin davison via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
> to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
> the whole machine.
>
> Any suggestions? i have not had much luck finding anything.
>
> --Devin
>

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Andrew Harvey via cctalk]

I too wrote half a BBS back in the early 80's for MU-BASIC on RT-11v4 when
I was in mid secondary school. I ended up running GBBS on an apple2
instead. That seems like a lifetime ago :-)

BTW this is my first post to the list, so, I'll introduce myself. I'm a C#
.net developer these days, but, I cut my teeth on a Websters PDP-11 (Q-bus)
mini computer in the early 80s. Recently I purchased a similar model from
one of the members on this list which I intend to resurrect RSN.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > > > I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs
> software
> > > > to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not
> monopolize
> > > > the whole machine.
> > >
> > > A krillion years ago I wrote about half of a BBS for my 11/34a, which
> > > ran (as an RTS) under RSTS V7.0-07.  I'd love to finish it ...
> >
> > So whats stopping you?
>
> Retirement?
>
> --
>  personal:
> http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
>   Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
> ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- select unique ("Just another SQL hacker") jash from id_rec order by 1;
> -
>

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 08:45:39PM -0400, devin davison via cctalk wrote:
> I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
> to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
> the whole machine.
> 
> Any suggestions? i have not had much luck finding anything.
> 
> --Devin


Not PDP-11 but some might find it interesting nontheless. A group of 
Swedes ran a BBS on a VAX-11/730:

https://www.retrodatorer.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/bbs-1-CT-dmz-1-1986.jpg

/P

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[John Wilson via cctalk]

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:38:24AM +0100, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>So whats stopping you?

That question applies to so much ...

John Wilson
D Bit

For Sale: Mostek MK3880 (Z80 compatible) development system

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

This is an interesting MK3880 (Z80) STD bus development system that came
out of Mostek and features an engineering prototype Mostek Z80 STI chip.

Details are here:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57817-Mostek-MK3880-(Z80-compatible)-Development-System=461056#post461056

Thanks!

Sellam

Re: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> > > I have both a pdp 11/34 and 11/23 and am trying to find some bbs software
> > > to run. Preferably something that will run under an os and not monopolize
> > > the whole machine.
> >
> > A krillion years ago I wrote about half of a BBS for my 11/34a, which
> > ran (as an RTS) under RSTS V7.0-07.  I'd love to finish it ...
>
> So whats stopping you?

Retirement?

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- select unique ("Just another SQL hacker") jash from id_rec order by 1; -