ULTRIX 4.5 on DECstation won't boot into multi-user mode

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

Hi all,

I picked up a DECstation 5000/200 over a year ago, which I haven't
really played with until this weekend. I burnt an Ultrix 4.5 iso, as I
have a RRD43 cdrom drive. The installation appeared to go fine, and I
was very pleased to see that Emacs is available in the unsupported
packages.

When I try to boot, it prints out to the console

]] 
]] preserving editor files
]] clearing /tmp
]] standard daemons: update cron accounting network snmpd printer.
]] start errlog daemon - elcsd
]] Thu Aug 14 18:30:23 GMT 1997

and then it seems to just stop. I can hear some repetitive disk
activity, but nothing is happening on the console. I have a monitor
hooked up to the PMAG-F card, but it just displays a black screen.

If I boot into single user mode "boot 5/rz1/vmunix single", things seem
to work fine, although I can't start X. From here, I took a look in
/etc/rc and /etc/rc.local, and it seems to get to the end of them both
fine. There is an "exit 0" on the line after the date command is
executed. Is there a script called after this which I have missed?

I'm a bit new to Ultrix. Does anyone have any ideas? Is it X related?
Perhaps I should try a fresh install without DECwindows, if that is an
option.

Thanks,

Aaron.

Re: RX02 *.DSK convert to PDP11GUI Image format

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Ulrich Tagge via cctalk
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> maybe someone can help.
> I would like to install TCP/IP on my RT-11 system.
> After a short search I have found the following, which I would use:
> http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/freeware/decus11/110939/rthtml/tcpget.htm
> But the images are in DSK format, but I can't write them with PDP11GUI,
> which is the only way I have at the moment.

I would take a quick look at those .DSK images to see what I can make
of them, but none of the download links on that page work for me.

For example, I can't download this .DSK image. Do these links work for
other people?
ftp://shop-pdp.kent.edu/du3:/tcpip.pkg/tcpipm.dsk

Re: RX02 *.DSK convert to PDP11GUI Image format

[Don North via cctalk]

On 8/13/2017 4:47 PM, Don North via cctalk wrote:

On 8/13/2017 11:34 AM, Jerry Weiss via cctalk wrote:

On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Ulrich Tagge  wrote:

Hi Jerry,

I have tried with PDP11GUI, but the first message says "The image contains 
only 505856 bytes, but disk has 512512 bytes".
I have written some disks, and have ignored this message, but none of them 
is readable under RT-11.

.dir dy0:
?DIR-F-Error reading directory

So I think the DSK format is different from the one PDP11GUI uses.
In the documentation I have seen, that the format is the same as SimH uses.
Image file format
Every DEC disk or tape is logically represented as a linear list of 
“blocks”. The block size differs between 128 byte and 1024 bytes. Reading 
and writing is based on block numbers.

The file format is that of SimH: a file image is just a stream of blocks.

Kermit would be a possibility, and I will try it later on.

Many Greetings
Ulrich
DEC OS’es typically do not do anything with track 0 on an RX02, and start 
with track 1.  I can only guess that PDP11GUI is trying to use the entire disk.


If there is an option to start at track 1 or skip the first 30 (?) blocks, 
that might work.


Note that ?DIR–F–Error reading directory is a hardware error.
Bad data would instead cause a ?DIR–F–Invalid directory.

Regards,
Jerry

The RX01 physical format is 77. tracks of 26. sectors (2002. total sectors) of 
128. bytes, or 256,256. bytes.
For RX02 track and sector counts are the same, but there are 256. bytes per 
sector, for a total of 512,512. bytes.


The .DSK images are (usually!) a pure physical image of the disk, in 
track/sector order, from track 0 sector 1 to track 76. sector 26.
The images include track 0 which is not used by any DEC O/S. The boot block / 
filesystem starts at track 1 sector 1.

Note that sectors are numbered 1. thru 26. There is no sector 0.

All the DEC operating systems use interleaving of logical to physical sectors 
on the RX device images, so they are unique
in the sense that the image file is not just a logical block 0. to block N-1. 
image of 512. byte blocks as most/all other image files are.


If your RX02 image file is only 505,856. bytes then this is 6656. bytes 
(exactly 26. * 256.) too short, so it would appear track 0 is skipped.
So when someone imaged the floppy they decided to skip over track 0 (how 
thoughtful of them).


You might try using unix dd to prepend 6656. bytes of zero as a header, and 
then copy the rest of the data to form a 512,512. byte file.
That may work on PDP11GUI (and should under SIMH as well) ***IF*** the person 
who imaged the disk just dropped track 0.
If they ALSO decided to de-interleave the physical sectors to logical blocks 
then the process just got a lot more complicated.
You will then need to undo the physical/logical conversion of the sectors to 
blocks to get back to a raw device image of the RX media.


Another thought ... if the disk image was taken as a logical filesystem dump (of 
blocks 0. thru 987. for the 505,856. byte image) then that image should be 
mountable under SIMH as an MSCP disk device image. MSCP will support arbitrary 
sized disk images of logical blocks.


So one could boot RT11 for example from an RK05 image, and then access the 
unknown image on an MSCP disk device to see if it has a valid RT11 filesystem on 
it (or using other bootable images like RSX, as necessary).


If the filesystem is valid and has meaningful files on it that would indicate it 
is a logical disk device image, as opposed to a physical sector by sector image 
of all tracks (or skipping track 0.) as one would normally expect for RX01/2 
media for the PDP-11.

Re: RX02 *.DSK convert to PDP11GUI Image format

[Don North via cctalk]

On 8/14/2017 12:40 AM, Ulrich Tagge via cctalk wrote:

Hi all,

I have tried to find a specification about the DSK Image format, but have only 
found the the following: http://www.cpctech.org.uk/docs/dsk.html , which looks 
like the focus is more on CPC related Disks.


Is there any detailed description somewhere in the www about the DSK format?

Many Greetings

Ulrich


I think you'll find many different '.DSK' formats on the web; there is not one 
universal definition. It depends on the program that wrote the .DSK files.

Re: Stearns Computer

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

On Monday (08/14/2017 at 01:16PM -0700), Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> 
> Yes, I recall that Neil tried to sell us on Stearns, but we elected to
> go with the pack and use IBM.  Good move that, in retrospect.

For sure.  The Stearns was (deliberately) not a very good IBM PC clone--
using a true 8086, a Eurocard backplane connector and a custom BIOS that
only allowed MSDOS (and not PC DOS) to run.  The video was different...
everything was different enough that all we did was hack just about
every app that people wanted to run so that it would limp on the Stearns.

Neil's goal at ETA (cc 1983) was to have a "paperless operation" and
every engineer, every manager, every secretary (that's what we called
them then) was to have a personal computer.  Most of the people had never
used a computer before and so we had to teach them what to do with them.

However, it was amazing to watch and didn't take too long before they
were all wanting REAL IBM PC stuff-- because they saw it on TV, in the
magazines, everywhere-- and sadly, the Stearns really could not deliver.

At the time CDC (and ETA by proxy) also had a group purchase deal with
Zenith and so we began to see the Z100 (again not a PC but well supported
software-wise) and finally the Z150 displace the Stearns as something
you could really get work done with.

As _the_ Stearns support guy, I had a Z100 :-)

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Stearns Computer

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/14/2017 10:40 AM, Chris Elmquist wrote:

> Stearns Computer was here in Minneapolis (Minnetonka actually) and was
> started by a bunch of former CPT guys.   I'm not sure I ever heard any
> history of the name but it may have ties to Stearns County which is
> just to the NW of the Cities or it might have something to do with
> Stearns life jackets which all the fisherman around here wear.
> 
> I believe I am the only non-Stearns Computer employee to hold a full
> certification for field repair of the Stearns PC.  I got this training
> because at ETA Systems, we had over 200 of these PC-like machines and
> were Stearns Computer's largest customer.  Some believe we were their
> only customer.
> 
> I still have the certificate but no, I will not fix your Stearns
> now :-)

Yes, I recall that Neil tried to sell us on Stearns, but we elected to
go with the pack and use IBM.  Good move that, in retrospect.

Googling a bit for the name shows that there are a lot of "Warren
Stearns" about.

--Chuck

Stearns Computer

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

On Monday (08/14/2017 at 08:16AM -0600), Doug Ingraham via cctalk wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Was Warren Stearns connected with Stearns Computer Systems, maker of the
> > short-lived Stearns PC?
> >
> > --Chuck
> >
> 
> No, he wasn't.

Stearns Computer was here in Minneapolis (Minnetonka actually) and was
started by a bunch of former CPT guys.   I'm not sure I ever heard any
history of the name but it may have ties to Stearns County which is
just to the NW of the Cities or it might have something to do with
Stearns life jackets which all the fisherman around here wear.

I believe I am the only non-Stearns Computer employee to hold a full
certification for field repair of the Stearns PC.  I got this training
because at ETA Systems, we had over 200 of these PC-like machines and
were Stearns Computer's largest customer.  Some believe we were their
only customer.

I still have the certificate but no, I will not fix your Stearns
now :-)

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Warren Stearns info.

[Doug Ingraham via cctalk]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> Was Warren Stearns connected with Stearns Computer Systems, maker of the
> short-lived Stearns PC?
>
> --Chuck
>

No, he wasn't.



-- 
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175

Re: VCF?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 8/13/17 6:34 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

> Anyway I was wondering if it would be possible to get some accurate and 
> detailed scale measurements of the Alto chorded keyset?

I have one that I am cleaning right now, so it is disassembled.
I'll put some info up soon.

RE: Plotter + Tape drive

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

Andy,
 Is this a Pertec or SCSI interface. If its SCSI I would be very interested. 
Might be challenging to collect in your time scales as I am in Spain at present 
and helping with a Makefest soon.
Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ANDY
> HOLT via cctalk
> Sent: 14 August 2017 13:09
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Plotter + Tape drive
> 
> 
> 
> Giving away ancient computer equipment (Essex England):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a HP 7550A plotter and a
> 
> HP 88780 9-track tape drive (also several tapes "new" in packaging).
> 
> Both were working when last powered-on but that was a couple of years
> ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to give them to the computing history museum in Cambridge but
> they have had to decline for lack of space.
> 
> If nobody claims and can collect from SS6 before the bank holiday (and
> preferably sooner!) they will go to the recycling centre (aka tip!)
> 
> Warning - the tape drive is around 40Kg.
> 
> I will also be offering these on another list.
> 
> Soonest to collect has priority!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andy Holt
> 
> 
> ps Tony if you want these but cannot transport mail me and we'll see if a
> solution is possible.
> 

Plotter + Tape drive

[ANDY HOLT via cctalk]

Giving away ancient computer equipment (Essex England): 




I have a HP 7550A plotter and a 

HP 88780 9-track tape drive (also several tapes "new" in packaging). 

Both were working when last powered-on but that was a couple of years ago. 




I was going to give them to the computing history museum in Cambridge but they 
have had to decline for lack of space. 

If nobody claims and can collect from SS6 before the bank holiday (and 
preferably sooner!) they will go to the recycling centre (aka tip!) 

Warning - the tape drive is around 40Kg. 

I will also be offering these on another list. 

Soonest to collect has priority! 




Andy Holt 


ps Tony if you want these but cannot transport mail me and we'll see if a 
solution is possible. 

Re: RX02 *.DSK convert to PDP11GUI Image format

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi all,

I have tried to find a specification about the DSK Image format, but 
have only found the the following: 
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/docs/dsk.html , which looks like the focus is 
more on CPC related Disks.


Is there any detailed description somewhere in the www about the DSK format?

Many Greetings

Ulrich

Re: RX02 *.DSK convert to PDP11GUI Image format

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Am 13.08.17 um 20:34 schrieb Jerry Weiss:

On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Ulrich Tagge  wrote:

Hi Jerry,

I have tried with PDP11GUI, but the first message says "The image contains only 
505856 bytes, but disk has 512512 bytes".
I have written some disks, and have ignored this message, but none of them is 
readable under RT-11.
.dir dy0:
?DIR-F-Error reading directory

So I think the DSK format is different from the one PDP11GUI uses.
In the documentation I have seen, that the format is the same as SimH uses.
Image file format
Every DEC disk or tape is logically represented as a linear list of “blocks”. 
The block size differs between 128 byte and 1024 bytes. Reading and writing is 
based on block numbers.
The file format is that of SimH: a file image is just a stream of blocks.
Kermit would be a possibility, and I will try it later on.

Many Greetings
Ulrich


DEC OS’es typically do not do anything with track 0 on an RX02, and start with 
track 1.  I can only guess that PDP11GUI is trying to use the entire disk.

If there is an option to start at track 1 or skip the first 30 (?) blocks, that 
might work.


Note that ?DIR–F–Error reading directory is a hardware error.
Bad data would instead cause a ?DIR–F–Invalid directory.
You are right, and it looks like, that in the process of image writing, 
and reading my DY0: died.

Tested again with DY1: and the outcome is now ?DIR-F-Invalid directory

I have send a Mail to Joerg yesterday evening, and have asked about 
PDP11GUI and the possibility to write DSK images, now waiting for the 
outcome.


Many Greetings
Ulrich
  


Regards,
Jerry

RE: VCF?

[Steve Malikoff via cctalk]

Marc said:
> The overall Chordset dimensions are 5 3/4 for width and 6" for depth. Keys 
> are spaced like regular piano keys, whatever that is. That should help you 
> dimension the drawing you have. We found very few programs that would use it.
> Marc

Thanks, I appreciate it. Would I be able to get a few more dimensions, such as 
height, thickness etc.?
I thought the Xerox drawing I found had a side view but it doesn't, so I've 
drawn a few quick lines on
it with required measurements A through H:
http://web.aanet.com.au/~malikoff/misc/keyset_dimensions_needed.jpg

I think that ought to give me enough to do something in SolveSpace or OpenSCAD.

Thanks again,
Steve.