Re: DL10 documentation

[Phil Budne via cctalk]

FWIW, Found these bits in the TOPS-10 7.04 sources:

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops10_704_monitoranf_bb-x140c-sb/01/10,7/anf10/chk11.p11.html

Search for ";DETERMINE THE DL10 BASE ADDRESS"

Which tries setting the following bit pattern:
DL.CNX!DL.CPE!DL.CWC!DL.11C

Those bits and others can be found in:
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops10_703_distr_bb-x140b-sb/02/10,7/703anf/s.p11.html


.SBTTL  DL10 HARDWARE BITS
; 
; DL10 - UNIBUS TO DECSYSTEM-10 MEMORY BUS INTERFACE
; 
.IIF NDF DL.VEC,DL.VEC= 170 ; VECTOR ADR FOR DL10
DL.LVL= 4   ; CHANNEL FIVE

DL.11I= B15 ; BIT 15 - 11 INT(INTERRUPTS IF 11-INT-ENB SET)
DL.11C= B14 ; BIT 14 - CLEAR 11 INT
DL.10I= B13 ; BIT 13 - 10 INT
DL.10C= B12 ; BIT 12 - CLEAR 10 INT
DL.NXM= B11 ; BIT 11 - NXM(INTERRUPTS IF ERR ENB SET)
DL.CNX= B10 ; BIT 10 - CLEAR NXM
DL.PAR= B9  ; BIT 09 - PAR ERR(INTERRUPTS IF ERR ENB SET)
DL.CPE= B8  ; BIT 08 - CLEAR PAR ERR
DL.WCO= B7  ; BIT 07 - WCOV(INTERRUPTS IF ERR ENB SET)
DL.CWC= B6  ; BIT 06 - CLEAR WCOV
DL.PEN= B5  ; BIT 05 - PORT ENABLE
DLPENB= DL.PEN  ; 
DL.B04= B4  ; BIT 04 - (GUESS !)
DL.ERE= B3  ; BIT 03 - ERR ENABLE
DL.INE= B2  ; BIT 02 - 11 INT ENB
DL.B01= B1  ; BITS 00 & 01 - PIA
DL.B00= B0  ; 

The (11 side) driver code for the DL10 is in:

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops10_704_monitoranf_bb-x140c-sb/01/10,7/anf10/dndl10.p11.html

.SBTTL  DNDL10 - PDP-10/PDP-11 INTERFACE  21 JUL 82

and defines a memory window (I'm assuming only the "STS" word contains
the above bits, and the rest is shared memory) using a window pointer
determinted by chk11 (see above):

.SBTTL DL10 WINDOW

BLOCK   DL  ;THIS IS THE DL-10 WINDOW

X   STS ;DL10 STATUS REGISTER
X   ,2  ;UNUSED
X   NAM ;PROGRAM NAME BYTE POINTER (SIXBIT)
X   ,1  ;NOT USED
X   11A ;PDP-11 ALIVE INDICATOR. INCREMENTED BY
;  BY THE TEN ONCE/SECOND, SET TO 0 BY
;  THE 11.  IF <2 THEN 11 IS ALIVE.
X   STP ;STOP CODE (FOR WHEN -11 DIES)
X   DWN ;3 STATE SWITCH
;  1 => UP AND RUNNING
;  0 => DOWN, COMPLAIN TO THE OPERATOR
; -1 => DOWN BUT DON'T COMPLAIN
X   UPT ;NOT USED?
X   STA ;GLOBAL STATE WORD
DLS.DP=1;DEPOSIT 11 CORE
DLS.EX=2;EXAMIN 11 CORE
GBADDR=4; DL.ADR IS BAD
GHOLD=10; HOLD EVERYTHING

X   ADR ;ADDRESS FOR EXAMINE/DEPOSITE IN 11 MEMORY
X   DAT ;CONTENTS OF THE EXAMINE/DEPOSITE
X   RLN ;MAXIMUM MESSAGE LENGTH 11 WILL ACCEPT
X   MOD ;DL-10 MODIFICATION NUMBER
WINVER=1;WINDOW VERSION NUMVER
X   10A ;PDP-10 ALIVE INDICATOR.  INCREMEMTED BY
;  THE 11 ONCE/SECOND, SET -1 BY THE 10.
;  IF <= 1, THE 10 IS ALIVE
X   10S ;STATUS OF THE 10
;  0 => INITIAL VALUE.  NOTHING GOING ON
;  1 => STARTED INITIALIZATION
; -1 => UP AND RUNNING
X   11S ;STATUS OF THE 11.
;  0 => INITIAL VALUE.  NOTHING GOING ON
;  1 => STARTED INITIALIZATION
; -1 => UP AND RUNNING
X   IST ;INPUT STATUS FLABS
;  B1 = FIRST PART
;  B2 = SECOND PART
X   ICT ;INPUT COUNT (10'S POINT OF VIEW)
X   IDT ;INPUT DATA APPEARS HERE
X   ,1  ;SECOND INPUT POINTER'S COUNT
X   ,1  ;SECOND INPUT POINTER'S DATA


X   OST ;OUTPUT FLAGS
;  B0 SAYS OUTPUT READY TO TO
;  B1-B4 SPECIFY THE CONVERSION
;  1 => LPT COMPRESSION
;  2 => BINARY (12 BIT) CONVERSION
X   OCT ;FIRST OUTPUT BUFFER'S LENGTH
X   ODT ;FIRST OUTPUT BUFFER'S DATA
X   ,1  ;SECOND BUFFERS COUNT
X   ,1  

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[allison via cctalk]

On 01/27/2018 12:04 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
> On 01/26/2018 07:15 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>> After that... well, I need to work out how to get the entire supply
>> assembly to start up while it's open, so that I can work on it
>> outside the
>> machine - then I can at least start looking for differences between
>> the two
>> supplies (boy, are those things complex, but maybe I'll get lucky and
>> it's
>> a bad solder joint or cap somewhere)
>
> OK, now I feel like an idiot :-)
>
> I started looking into this, and found that neither PSU would do
> anything without being plugged into the (currently unpopulated)
> backplane. My initial assumption was that there was some interaction
> between the backplane and the "other" wires between it and the PSUs
> (i.e. the ones that don't carry +5V or +12V).
>
> However, on a whim (and I really don't know why I did this) I plugged
> the +5V PSU connectors up to the backplane, but left the others
> (carrying +12V and the other signals) unplugged. Doing that, things
> behaved as before - the top PSU started operating normally, and the
> lower PSU started putting out around 2.5V.
>
> It got me wondering though - maybe it was simply a load issue, and
> with my dummy loads I was right at the (lower) limit for the PSU
> regulation to work; perhaps I had just enough for the top PSU to
> operate normally (but only with the backplane hooked up too) and the
> lower PSU (for whatever reason) wanted just that little bit more than
> the top one.
>
> Anyway, I tweaked my loads to draw a little more current - and bingo!
> I'm now getting stable +5V and +12V outputs on both PSUs, a working
> card cage fan, and the DC OK light comes on.
>
> So, in summary... with no load at all, the PSUs do nothing, but with
> *some* load they either work OK, or the regulation is goofy and the
> outputs are low.
>
> Time to add CPU/memory in, wire up a console cable and see what
> happens, I guess.
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
The PSUs used are a switching type and do not behave well with out about
a 5-10% load as a minimum.  They must have a load.

NOTE: the door switch does only one thing and that is to run the fans at
100% when the covers are off.  When they are
on then the switch allows the fan speed to be controlled by temperature.

FYI all this is covered in the BA123/microVAC manuals.  Seriously, if
your not familiar with Qbus and microVAX boxes
RTFM and as many as you can find.

Allison

Re: ADV11-A vs. ADV11-C and 22-bit Bus

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Mark Matlock

>Any device which uses backplane pins BC1, BD1, BEl, BF1 or DC1, 001,
>DEl, OF!

Those last are probably typos for "DD1, DE1, DF1".

> Several other pins are also tied to ground on that connector such as
> BC2, BJ1, and BT1.

Yeah, those are all standard Q22 ground pins.

> When I look at the Board connector B pin C side 1 (component side) the BC1
> pin is tied to ground. .. So it looks like if I simply cut the trace
> between the BC1 finger and its connection to ground on the board it
> would become Q22 compatible.
> Is it that simple?

That would be my take on it, yes.

As Jerry Weiss mentions, since it's not a DMA device, once you do that, it
should be Q22-capable; all QBUS devices are supposed (per the QBUS spec) to
use BBS7, along with BDAL0-12, to listen for register accesses, so the fact
that it's not listening to BDAL18-21 should not be an issue. 

(Odd factoid: various QBUS CPU's drive various combinations of BDAL13-21
during references to the I/O page; I forget the details off the top of my
head, but Dave Bridgham and I were just looking at that.)

Noel

Re: 3 computing events

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2018-01-27 8:16 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> Three ‘computing’ events are happening:
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  The i-Pad ...
> 
> 
> 
> 2)  Bitcoin mining – The energy usage is extreme because of GPUs. Was
> 16-bit computer era, employing the 80287, such an energy hog?

It's extreme because proof-of-work is required, and so the more machines
you have doing the work (= the more energy expended), the quicker you
can mint fantasy money. (Using GPUs actually does much _more_ work per
Watt than other means, so they can't be blamed for this waste.)

We usually try to _minimise_ the work in everything else we do with
computers... and designs requiring proof-of-work don't seem sustainable.

> 
> 
> 
> 3)  INTEL doesn’t seem to have been hurt by Meltdown & Specture
> financially- speaking. 

Its CEO sure wasn't, personally.

--Toby



> Had excellent earnings and profits for the last
> quarter but ‘may’ change this quarter. However, INTEL marches on going from
> 4004 to 7980XE. AMD was/in the picture but financially-wise…
> 
> 
> 
> Happy computing all!
> 
> 
> 
> Murray  J
> 

Re: Re:

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Next video: cleaning heads in fragly brewed IPA (the beer). I bet it would work 
too. Ultrasound in hot solvent cleans stuff that no other method can.
Marc

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 5:26 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> yea ipa's are to bitter
> 
> have u had a saison though?
> 
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 6:38 PM, dwight via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> I don't like most IPAs. I do like lagers and most ale's like Sierra
>> Nevada's.
>> 
>> Dwight
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: cctalk  on behalf of Paul Berger via
>> cctalk 
>> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 12:54:59 PM
>> To: Henry Bond via cctalk
>> Subject: Re:
>> 
>> Yeah for me IPA=India Pale Ale
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2018-01-27 2:45 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote:
>>> Isopropyl alcohol would be a sensible guess, I've not seen that
>>> abbreviation before though .
>>> 
>>> - H
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018, 18:24 Adrian Stoness via cctech <
>> cct...@classiccmp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 ipa as in beer?
 
 On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Carl Claunch via cctech <
 cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
 
> The IPA is heated to 60C before the ultrasound is able to remove the
 oxide
> remnants, FWIW.
> 
> While we can often get the entire smooth surface of the head clean with
> swabs and IPA, it is very difficult to clean all the material that
>> forms
 in
> the cruciform trench recessed into the head (where the read/write and
 erase
> coil poles are visible).
> 
> Heads can seem clean to the naked eye, but a good stereo microscope
>> will
> insure that you have a clean and smooth surface.
> 
> Regards,
>Carl
> 
> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:34 -0800
>> From: Fritz Mueller 
>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
>> 
>> Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
>> Message-ID: <9f2c2ac7-1b35-46f5-bd92-cc3dfd29f...@fritzm.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
>> 
>> I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc?s recent Alto videos,
>> wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I?ve been
>> struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the
> heads
>> after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
>> clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a
> few
>> minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up?.
>> Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just
 doesn?t
>> seem to get all the crud off.
>> 
>> I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads
 after
>> removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic
 cleaners
>> aren?t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop
> anyway
>> (I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)
>> 
>> In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder,
>> which
> is
>> then placed in the ultrasonic bath.
>> 
>> Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond
>> what
>> can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I?m also having
>> a
>> little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder
>> online.
>> 
>> cheers,
>>?FritzM.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

3 computing events

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Three ‘computing’ events are happening:



1)  The i-Pad was introduced by S. Jobs 8 yrs. ago and defined a ‘new’
computing paradigm for the masses. The reason I mention this event is
because a young friend(20 yrs. old) said “That’s ancient computing!” What
is one to make of classic-computing then?



2)  Bitcoin mining – The energy usage is extreme because of GPUs. Was
16-bit computer era, employing the 80287, such an energy hog?



3)  INTEL doesn’t seem to have been hurt by Meltdown & Specture
financially- speaking. Had excellent earnings and profits for the last
quarter but ‘may’ change this quarter. However, INTEL marches on going from
4004 to 7980XE. AMD was/in the picture but financially-wise…



Happy computing all!



Murray  J

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 01/27/2018 02:43 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


Well, there's someone's hand-written sticker on the top 
saying it's a lowly RD51 - however the actual p/n sticker 
says it's an RD53-A and the defect table lists it as 
ST506, 85MB.


Of course it probably doesn't work anyway ;-)

The likelihood of a 30+ year old MFM hard drive working is 
pretty small.  If it DOES work, get the data off it as soon 
as possible, the grease in the bearings are likely to have 
turned into gunk and it won't last.
If you start with just the M7606 - CPU and the M7608 - 
4MB ram once
you get a console cable built it shouldn't be too hard to 
get some

basic signs of life.


Yes, that's where I'm at right now...

Console default is 8 data bits, 1 stop bit and no parity 
(at whatever speed the switch is set to), correct?


I'm getting an alternating F and 9 on the hex LED diag 
display on the console panel, no output at all on my 
terminal, and the M7606 starts with 4 solid red LEDs, then 
a solid green, then the middle pair of the red LEDs start 
a simultaneous slow flash on/off (while the outer two plus 
the green remain steady)


MM, that doesn't sound good at all.  The single LED on the 
console panel is supposed to count down from F as it runs 
through the on-board diags.  It is supposed to send a 2-line 
(I think) description of the board rev level and ROM 
firmware level, and then do something like this:


F.E.D.CB.A.9.87  (this is 
the memory test, and can take a LONG time) and then continue,
finally leaving you with a console prompt or a boot or boot 
failure message.


Jon

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Peter Coghlan via cctalk]

With the drive actually hooked up to the controller, I'm getting "?54
RETRY" messages when it's trying to boot - however, I'm not entirely sure
what device it's trying to boot from! Maybe it's attempting the TK50, or
via Ethernet. I still need to read up on that and work out how to force it
to attempt a disk boot.



On a VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 (which could behave the same as or completely
differently to an MV-II), "?54 RETRY" is what you get when attempting to boot
from the network when nothing is responding (also, if I recall correctly, so
take this with a giant pinch of salt...)

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: Re:

[dwight via cctalk]

I don't like most IPAs. I do like lagers and most ale's like Sierra Nevada's.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Paul Berger via 
cctalk 
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 12:54:59 PM
To: Henry Bond via cctalk
Subject: Re:

Yeah for me IPA=India Pale Ale


On 2018-01-27 2:45 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote:
> Isopropyl alcohol would be a sensible guess, I've not seen that
> abbreviation before though .
>
> - H
>
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018, 18:24 Adrian Stoness via cctech 
> wrote:
>
>> ipa as in beer?
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Carl Claunch via cctech <
>> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The IPA is heated to 60C before the ultrasound is able to remove the
>> oxide
>>> remnants, FWIW.
>>>
>>> While we can often get the entire smooth surface of the head clean with
>>> swabs and IPA, it is very difficult to clean all the material that forms
>> in
>>> the cruciform trench recessed into the head (where the read/write and
>> erase
>>> coil poles are visible).
>>>
>>> Heads can seem clean to the naked eye, but a good stereo microscope will
>>> insure that you have a clean and smooth surface.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:34 -0800
 From: Fritz Mueller 
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
  
 Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
 Message-ID: <9f2c2ac7-1b35-46f5-bd92-cc3dfd29f...@fritzm.org>
 Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

 I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc?s recent Alto videos,
 wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I?ve been
 struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the
>>> heads
 after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
 clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a
>>> few
 minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up?.
 Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just
>> doesn?t
 seem to get all the crud off.

 I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads
>> after
 removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic
>> cleaners
 aren?t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop
>>> anyway
 (I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)

 In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder, which
>>> is
 then placed in the ultrasonic bath.

 Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond what
 can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I?m also having a
 little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder online.

  cheers,
 ?FritzM.

Re: TESTFDC

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Another vote for the FDADAP. Could've built my own, but it's reasonably
priced, handles TG43, does RX50, and I like supporting John's work.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:06 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> *sigh* Fat fingers again.
>
> > On 27 Jan 2018, at 22:58, Mike Loewen via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
> >
>  Now where did I put that 8? drive...
> >>>
> >>> I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.
> >>
> >> My pair are Tandons, they?re in a CPT8500 word processor which I?d also
> like to get going at some point. Any tips on coaxing them back into life?
> >
> >  Nothing specific to the drive, but I think well of the FDADAP 8" floppy
> disk adapter to connect the drive to the controller:
> >
> > http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html
>
> Yep, I was looking at those yesterday, hooked in by the mention of an
> RX50. $40 including postage to the UK is a pretty decent price.
>
> Cheers,
>
> A
>
>
> —
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
> w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk t: @binarydinosaurs
> f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
>
>

chyron 8 inch disks chyron IV - m4100ex-- sports disc - fonts - font load front compose etc

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

chyron 8 inch disks chyron IV -  m4100ex--   sports disc - fonts - font load 
front compose etc

does anyone had   this  chyron and  firing it  up?   some  discs  nice  and  
clean come  have     foam  stuck to envelopes ..
 
maybe  you have something  we  can use  here. since  I dont think  we  will 
have the chyron?
 
ed#

Re: TESTFDC

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

*sigh* Fat fingers again.

> On 27 Jan 2018, at 22:58, Mike Loewen via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
> 
 Now where did I put that 8? drive...
>>> 
>>> I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.
>> 
>> My pair are Tandons, they?re in a CPT8500 word processor which I?d also like 
>> to get going at some point. Any tips on coaxing them back into life?
> 
>  Nothing specific to the drive, but I think well of the FDADAP 8" floppy disk 
> adapter to connect the drive to the controller:
> 
> http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html

Yep, I was looking at those yesterday, hooked in by the mention of an RX50. $40 
including postage to the UK is a pretty decent price. 

Cheers,

A


—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re: TESTFDC

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 27 Jan 2018, at 22:58, Mike Loewen via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
> 
 Now where did I put that 8? drive...
>>> 
>>>  I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.
>> 
>> My pair are Tandons, they?re in a CPT8500 word processor which I?d also like 
>> to get going at some point. Any tips on coaxing them back into life?
> 
>   Nothing specific to the drive, but I think well of the FDADAP 8" floppy 
> disk adapter to connect the drive to the controller:
> 
> http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html

Yep, I was looking at those yesterday, hooked in by the mention of an RX50. $40 
including postage to the UK is a pretty decent price. 

Cheers,

A

RE: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
> Richardson via cctalk
> Sent: 27 January 2018 23:39
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts

> Subject: Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault
> 
> On 01/27/2018 04:02 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> >> Success!
> >
> >
> > Congratulations!
> 
> ish... :-)
> 
> It seems that my DHV11 board is bad - the system stalls on the PSU tests
with it
> plugged in.
> 
> The TK50 drive sits there with a rapidly-flashing light (I saw someone
saying
> that's likely the tape feed band or just dirty heads, so it might be
fixable).
> 
> The RD53 drive... hmm. I tried powering it without it plugged in, just to
see if it
> at least sounded healthy; it spun up to a "sensible-sounding"
> speed for maybe 15 seconds, then spun down again. I tried again, and it
> remained spun-up, but the initial spin-down was hardly encouraging.
> 

Did you hear the heads move? Spinning up and down again likely means it
couldn't find the first track. Very likely to be stiction from the rubber
bumper inside which has turned to goo.

> With the drive actually hooked up to the controller, I'm getting "?54
RETRY"
> messages when it's trying to boot - however, I'm not entirely sure what
device
> it's trying to boot from! Maybe it's attempting the TK50, or via Ethernet.
I still
> need to read up on that and work out how to force it to attempt a disk
boot.
> 
> One other issue is that the RD53 was in the second bay (and hooked up to
the
> associated cables) - it makes me wonder if it was just an auxiliary disk,
and the
> system originally had another drive in the first bay (containing actual
OS) which
> has been removed.

Can't remember exactly, but not necessarily. You need to try commands like
BOOT DUA0/1/2/3, but if the heads are sticking you won't get far. I would
suggest net booting the machine as a satellite and then seeing if the local
disk is visible to the OS.

> 
> > Just be sure to follow the grant chain
> 
> Yup, I *think* I've got my head around how that works! (along with the
special
> slots for CPU/RAM)
> 
> cheers
> 
> Jules

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/27/2018 04:02 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:

Success!



Congratulations!


ish... :-)

It seems that my DHV11 board is bad - the system stalls on the PSU tests 
with it plugged in.


The TK50 drive sits there with a rapidly-flashing light (I saw someone 
saying that's likely the tape feed band or just dirty heads, so it might be 
fixable).


The RD53 drive... hmm. I tried powering it without it plugged in, just to 
see if it at least sounded healthy; it spun up to a "sensible-sounding" 
speed for maybe 15 seconds, then spun down again. I tried again, and it 
remained spun-up, but the initial spin-down was hardly encouraging.


With the drive actually hooked up to the controller, I'm getting "?54 
RETRY" messages when it's trying to boot - however, I'm not entirely sure 
what device it's trying to boot from! Maybe it's attempting the TK50, or 
via Ethernet. I still need to read up on that and work out how to force it 
to attempt a disk boot.


One other issue is that the RD53 was in the second bay (and hooked up to 
the associated cables) - it makes me wonder if it was just an auxiliary 
disk, and the system originally had another drive in the first bay 
(containing actual OS) which has been removed.



Just be sure to follow the grant chain


Yup, I *think* I've got my head around how that works! (along with the 
special slots for CPU/RAM)


cheers

Jules

Re: KK11-A / PDP-11/34 Cache module print set

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Marc Howard

> what's the difference between a KK11-A and KK11-B?

KK11-A -> -11/34
KK11-B -> -11/44

Noel

Re: TESTFDC

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:


Now where did I put that 8? drive...


  I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.


My pair are Tandons, they?re in a CPT8500 word processor which I?d also like to 
get going at some point. Any tips on coaxing them back into life?


   Nothing specific to the drive, but I think well of the FDADAP 8" floppy 
disk adapter to connect the drive to the controller:


http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 5:13 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:
>> Just be sure to follow the grant chain - the BA23 and BA123 have a
>> hybrid backplane where the first few slots are CD slots and the rest
>> are serpentine (3 CD slots for BA23, 5 CD slots for BA123).
>
> First 4 slots of a BA123 are Q22/CD, not the first 5. Page 22 of the
> PDF, page 1-11, Figure 1-9 Backplane Grant Continuity of the same
> manual referenced above.

Good catch.  I looked it up because I remembered that it was different
but I misread one of the links that mentioned slot 5... slot 5 is the
_first_ Q22 slot.  1-4 are Q22/CD.

Thanks for spotting this.

-ethan

Re: KK11-A / PDP-11/34 Cache module print set

[Marc Howard via cctalk]

BTW, what's the difference between a KK11-A and KK11-B?

Thanks,

Marc

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 6:21 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > From: Mattis Lind
>
> > I have now scanned the MP00574 / KK11-A printset I have received.
>
> Thank you very much for doing that! Those prints were one of the main
> missing
> PDP-11 print sets.
>
> > Hope the quality is good enough.
>
> It looks good to me.
>
> Noel
>

Re: TESTFDC

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

(2nd go, fat fingers posted from the wrong account, apologies if it double 
posts)

> On 27 Jan 2018, at 21:55, Mike Loewen via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> I?d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond W83627HF 
>> with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks. I?ve been 
>> trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last week found 
>> this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a scrap 
>> Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually got it 
>> going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning I can 
>> archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D
> 
>  I'm also using the K8V Pro for my imaging system.  I've successfully made 
> bootable disks for all sorts of SD and DD systems.

This one took some coaxing to get going but now that it is I have a need to 
make disks for my TRS80 Model 4P since I only have the one boot disk with it.

>> Now where did I put that 8? drive...
> 
>  I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.

My pair are Tandons, they’re in a CPT8500 word processor which I’d also like to 
get going at some point. Any tips on coaxing them back into life?

Cheers!

A

> 
> Mike Loewen   mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re: TESTFDC

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 27 Jan 2018, at 21:55, Mike Loewen via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> I?d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond W83627HF 
>> with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks. I?ve been 
>> trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last week found 
>> this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a scrap 
>> Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually got it 
>> going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning I can 
>> archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D
> 
>   I'm also using the K8V Pro for my imaging system.  I've successfully made 
> bootable disks for all sorts of SD and DD systems.

This one took some coaxing to get going but now that it is I have a need to 
make disks for my TRS80 Model 4P since I only have the one boot disk with it.

>> Now where did I put that 8? drive...
> 
>   I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.

My pair are Tandons, they’re in a CPT8500 word processor which I’d also like to 
get going at some point. Any tips on coaxing them back into life?

Cheers!

A

> 
> Mike Loewen   mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
> Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
 wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> Success!
>
> Congratulations!
>
>> I'd left the rear panel console settings how they were when I got the
>> machine, I mean 'T' for terminal, right? Wrong... arrow for terminal, 'T'
>> for "sit there alternating between F and 9, and driving Jules insane" ;)
>
> 'T' is 'Loop Test'...

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/630/
AX-GLBAA-MN_MicroVAX_II_630QB_Technical_Manual_Nov85.pdf

Page 37 of the PDF, page 2-6, Figure 2-2, CPU Patch Panel Insert.
Might be helpful to print out a copy of that figure and tape it to the
back of the BA123. I can never remember what the rotary and toggle
switch positions mean.


> Just be sure to follow the grant chain - the BA23 and BA123 have a
> hybrid backplane where the first few slots are CD slots and the rest
> are serpentine (3 CD slots for BA23, 5 CD slots for BA123).

First 4 slots of a BA123 are Q22/CD, not the first 5. Page 22 of the
PDF, page 1-11, Figure 1-9 Backplane Grant Continuity of the same
manual referenced above.

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
> Success!


Congratulations!

> I'd left the rear panel console settings how they were when I got the
> machine, I mean 'T' for terminal, right? Wrong... arrow for terminal, 'T'
> for "sit there alternating between F and 9, and driving Jules insane" ;)

'T' is 'Loop Test'...

http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/panels.htm
http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/microvax/uVAXII_HWinfo_Sep87.pdf

> I'm getting console output now, and it's getting down to trying to load
> system software
>
> Will throw boards back in there and see what happens...

Just be sure to follow the grant chain - the BA23 and BA123 have a
hybrid backplane where the first few slots are CD slots and the rest
are serpentine (3 CD slots for BA23, 5 CD slots for BA123).

http://web.frainresearch.org:8080/projects/pdp-11/chassis.php
http://vaxarchive.org/hardware/qbus1.html

-ethan

Re: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

Speaking of these drives, I have a single decpack cartridge which hitchhiked 
along with a purchase of RL02 packs. It's marked "decpack 2200 BPI-12" and has 
12 sector notches in the hub. Does that mean that it was most likely used with 
an RK05 drive in a PDP-11 system? I seem to recall that packs used with a PDP-8 
system would have 16 sector notches. I hope that I can procure a matching drive 
for it one of these days, even though Marc's video makes me think I'd be 
royally screwed if I didn't also manage to procure a good alignment pack to go 
with it, and maybe some spare heads. I don't have any experience with the 
front-loading drives yet.

Labels on the pack indicate that it saw some DEC maintenance on 1/6/84, and it 
was used by somebody named Fred Knight. It's labeled "KMC-LP Testing Pack". I 
know it's a long shot, but it would be neat if any of that meant something to 
anybody on the list.

I don't know anything about how to clean hard drive packs, and that's something 
I'd like to learn about.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: TESTFDC

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

I?d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond W83627HF 
with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks. I?ve been 
trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last week found 
this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a scrap 
Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually got it 
going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning I can 
archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D


   I'm also using the K8V Pro for my imaging system.  I've successfully made 
bootable disks for all sorts of SD and DD systems.



Now where did I put that 8? drive...


   I'm using a Tandon 848 on mine.


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 4:34 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
> Success!

Congratulations!

> I'd left the rear panel console settings how they were when I got the
> machine, I mean 'T' for terminal, right? Wrong... arrow for terminal, 'T'
> for "sit there alternating between F and 9, and driving Jules insane" ;)

'T' is Test...
> I'm getting console output now, and it's getting down to trying to load
> system software before failing (understandably, because I don't have any
> other boards in there right now)
>
> Will throw boards back in there and see what happens...
>
> J.
>
>
>

Re: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads

[Steve Malikoff via cctalk]

I too watched Marc's video with great interest, as I have a pair of Diablo 31's 
identical to his.
Now, I'm a long long long way from getting them operational, but it's good to 
see what has worked for
future reference.

As I'd never be able to find a similar alignment pack, the heads in mine would 
have to stay put for
cleaning. Thus I'm wondering whether it would be possible to place the drive 
vertically so the heads
point down, and use one of those el-cheapo miniature jewellery ultrasonic 
cleaners plentiful on eBay
to dip the heads into the isopropyl alcohol, in situ?

The cleaner would I expect require some modification for it to fit around the 
heads and in the tight
space, plus some mounting arrangement to keep it from falling into the drive.

Steve.

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/27/2018 03:02 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:

OK, looking at the 630QB tech manual now, which seems to be where these
were lifted from... and of course it points out that the LEDs on the M7606
correspond to the hex codes on the panel (i.e. my four red LEDs with the
middle pair flashing on and off equate to the alternating F-9 I'm seeing on
the hex LED)


Success!

I'd left the rear panel console settings how they were when I got the 
machine, I mean 'T' for terminal, right? Wrong... arrow for terminal, 'T' 
for "sit there alternating between F and 9, and driving Jules insane" ;)


I'm getting console output now, and it's getting down to trying to load 
system software before failing (understandably, because I don't have any 
other boards in there right now)


Will throw boards back in there and see what happens...

J.

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> OK, looking at the 630QB tech manual now, which seems to be where these were
> lifted from... and of course it points out that the LEDs on the M7606
> correspond to the hex codes on the panel (i.e. my four red LEDs with the
> middle pair flashing on and off equate to the alternating F-9 I'm seeing on
> the hex LED)
>
> The green LED on the CPU board is 'DC OK' and I'm also getting a green 'DC
> OK' on the front of the machine, and it seems odd those would be lit if
> there were a DC fault... but who knows. No explanation of the flashing
> codes, either; the manual seems to imply that it steps through in sequence
> down from 'F' and will stop when there's a fault.

Do you have a scope that you can use to monitor the BDCOK line? If it
is periodically dropping low that would cause a loop of the processor
halting and resetting. That could be happening fast enough that the DC
OK LED appears to stay on continuously.

That would be the same as periodically pressing the Restart button on
the front panel, which works by pulling down the BDCOK line. (See the
BA123-A Front Panel sheet, page 115 of the maintenance print sheet PDF
MP02071_630QB_Mar85.pdf)

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/27/2018 12:51 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

Anyway, I tweaked my loads to draw a little more current - and bingo!
I'm now getting stable +5V and +12V outputs on both PSUs, a working
card cage fan, and the DC OK light comes on.


This is good, particularly since my own BA123 has been sat in 3 garages
then a utility room since 1998, you’re making me think it MIGHT just
power up without any issues.


Hey, my rifa caps haven't exploded yet, either! :-D

See reply to Glen, though - I'm getting an alternating F-9 on the hex 
display / CPU diag LEDs, which the docs don't mention as being a 'thing'; 
they seem to imply that startup codes should decrease from 'F' and stop if 
there's a fault, not go into a condition where they alternate.

Re: TESTFDC

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 27 Jan 2018, at 20:23, Rob Jarratt  wrote:
> 
> A 380Z, nice! I used to use those when I was at University. My final year 
> project used one connected to a research machine called MU6-G for 
> diagnostics. All the registers in the machine were connected up as one 
> enormous shift register, so you could get and set any register in the machine 
> from the 380Z. I wrote a program to do simple diagnostics on the machine. It 
> was a lot of fun.
> 
> They don’t come up very often and go for more money than I can justify.

It was the first machine I used at school so when someone offered me a broken 
one back in 2011 I jumped at the chance. I tried fixing it back then with 
Tony’s help but wasn’t as confident as I am now so it only took me a few hours 
to fix. Fortunately it came with boot disks but making new ones has been a 
massive lesson in CP/M compatibility and reintroduction to assembler coupled 
with swearing :)

It uses an odd format that 22DISK doesn’t like though, but ImageDisk works 
nicely now that I have the right PC hardware to do it. I’m now keen to try 
cpmtools on linux once I find out if that floppy controller is still supported, 
and if it isn’t how far back to I need to go!

Much writing and pictures (no swearing) at 
http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/rml/380z.php

Cheers

A

> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian
>> Graham via cctalk
>> Sent: 27 January 2018 19:16
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
>> Subject: TESTFDC
>> 
>> I’d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond
>> W83627HF with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks. 
>> I’ve
>> been trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last week 
>> found
>> this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a scrap
>> Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually got it
>> going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning I can
>> archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D
>> 
>> Typical of my luck a contact has also found an Adaptec 1522A that he’ll
>> hopefully send me too, then I’m covered for all eventualities.
>> 
>> Now where did I put that 8” drive...
>> 
>> —
>> Adrian/Witchy
>> Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
>> w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk  t: @binarydinosaurs
>> f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re:

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

Yeah for me IPA=India Pale Ale


On 2018-01-27 2:45 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote:

Isopropyl alcohol would be a sensible guess, I've not seen that
abbreviation before though .

- H

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018, 18:24 Adrian Stoness via cctech 
wrote:


ipa as in beer?

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Carl Claunch via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:


The IPA is heated to 60C before the ultrasound is able to remove the

oxide

remnants, FWIW.

While we can often get the entire smooth surface of the head clean with
swabs and IPA, it is very difficult to clean all the material that forms

in

the cruciform trench recessed into the head (where the read/write and

erase

coil poles are visible).

Heads can seem clean to the naked eye, but a good stereo microscope will
insure that you have a clean and smooth surface.

Regards,
Carl

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:34 -0800

From: Fritz Mueller 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
 
Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
Message-ID: <9f2c2ac7-1b35-46f5-bd92-cc3dfd29f...@fritzm.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc?s recent Alto videos,
wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I?ve been
struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the

heads

after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a

few

minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up?.
Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just

doesn?t

seem to get all the crud off.

I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads

after

removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic

cleaners

aren?t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop

anyway

(I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)

In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder, which

is

then placed in the ultrasonic bath.

Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond what
can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I?m also having a
little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder online.

 cheers,
?FritzM.

Re:

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

ipa as in beer?

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Carl Claunch via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The IPA is heated to 60C before the ultrasound is able to remove the oxide
> remnants, FWIW.
>
> While we can often get the entire smooth surface of the head clean with
> swabs and IPA, it is very difficult to clean all the material that forms in
> the cruciform trench recessed into the head (where the read/write and erase
> coil poles are visible).
>
> Heads can seem clean to the naked eye, but a good stereo microscope will
> insure that you have a clean and smooth surface.
>
> Regards,
>Carl
>
> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:34 -0800
> > From: Fritz Mueller 
> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> > 
> > Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
> > Message-ID: <9f2c2ac7-1b35-46f5-bd92-cc3dfd29f...@fritzm.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
> >
> > I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc?s recent Alto videos,
> > wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I?ve been
> > struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the
> heads
> > after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
> > clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a
> few
> > minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up?.
> > Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just doesn?t
> > seem to get all the crud off.
> >
> > I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads after
> > removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic cleaners
> > aren?t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop
> anyway
> > (I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)
> >
> > In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder, which
> is
> > then placed in the ultrasonic bath.
> >
> > Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond what
> > can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I?m also having a
> > little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder online.
> >
> > cheers,
> >?FritzM.
> >
> >
>

Re:

[Henry Bond via cctalk]

Isopropyl alcohol would be a sensible guess, I've not seen that
abbreviation before though .

- H

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018, 18:24 Adrian Stoness via cctech 
wrote:

> ipa as in beer?
>
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Carl Claunch via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > The IPA is heated to 60C before the ultrasound is able to remove the
> oxide
> > remnants, FWIW.
> >
> > While we can often get the entire smooth surface of the head clean with
> > swabs and IPA, it is very difficult to clean all the material that forms
> in
> > the cruciform trench recessed into the head (where the read/write and
> erase
> > coil poles are visible).
> >
> > Heads can seem clean to the naked eye, but a good stereo microscope will
> > insure that you have a clean and smooth surface.
> >
> > Regards,
> >Carl
> >
> > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:34 -0800
> > > From: Fritz Mueller 
> > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> > > 
> > > Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
> > > Message-ID: <9f2c2ac7-1b35-46f5-bd92-cc3dfd29f...@fritzm.org>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
> > >
> > > I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc?s recent Alto videos,
> > > wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I?ve been
> > > struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the
> > heads
> > > after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
> > > clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a
> > few
> > > minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up?.
> > > Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just
> doesn?t
> > > seem to get all the crud off.
> > >
> > > I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads
> after
> > > removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic
> cleaners
> > > aren?t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop
> > anyway
> > > (I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)
> > >
> > > In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder, which
> > is
> > > then placed in the ultrasonic bath.
> > >
> > > Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond what
> > > can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I?m also having a
> > > little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder online.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >?FritzM.
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re:

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 10:23, Adrian Stoness via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> ipa as in beer?

Isopropyl alcohol. Not very good for drinking; even store-brand vodka in 
plastic jugs is less harsh. :)


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

[no subject]

[Carl Claunch via cctalk]

The IPA is heated to 60C before the ultrasound is able to remove the oxide
remnants, FWIW.

While we can often get the entire smooth surface of the head clean with
swabs and IPA, it is very difficult to clean all the material that forms in
the cruciform trench recessed into the head (where the read/write and erase
coil poles are visible).

Heads can seem clean to the naked eye, but a good stereo microscope will
insure that you have a clean and smooth surface.

Regards,
   Carl

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:15:34 -0800
> From: Fritz Mueller 
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> 
> Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
> Message-ID: <9f2c2ac7-1b35-46f5-bd92-cc3dfd29f...@fritzm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
>
> I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc?s recent Alto videos,
> wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I?ve been
> struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the heads
> after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
> clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a few
> minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up?.
> Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just doesn?t
> seem to get all the crud off.
>
> I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads after
> removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic cleaners
> aren?t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop anyway
> (I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)
>
> In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder, which is
> then placed in the ultrasonic bath.
>
> Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond what
> can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I?m also having a
> little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder online.
>
> cheers,
>?FritzM.
>
>

Re: ADV11-A vs. ADV11-C and 22-bit Bus

[Jerry Weiss via cctalk]

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 11:16 AM, Mark Matlock via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
>   I have an ADV11-A that I would like to use in a Q22 RSX11M+ system. The 
> ADV11-C will work in a 22-bit Bus system from what I understand but the 
> ADV11-A was made for 18 bit Bus systems. In the OEM Micronote book, Note 5, 
> it states:
> 
>Any device which uses backplane pins BC1, BD1, BEl, BF1 or DC1, 001, DEl, 
> OF!, for purposes other than BDAL18-21 is electrically incompatible with the 
> 22-bit bus and may not be used without modification. 
> 
> 
>   Further down it lists the ADV11-A as a device that does not meet the 
> requirements for a Qbus 22-bit system because:
>ADV11 (A012).   A/D Converter. (Use of BC1 for purposes other than 
> BDAL18)
> 
>   When I look at the Board connector B pin C side 1 (component side) the BC1 
> pin is tied to ground. Several other pins are also tied to ground on that 
> connector such as BC2, BJ1, and BT1. Other than BC1 which is BDAL18 being 
> tied to ground the pins BDAL19 (BD1), BDAL20 (BE1), And BDAL21 (BF1) are all 
> not connected to anything. This also matches the field engineering print for 
> ADV11-A (B-TC-ADBV11-A-1) where BC1 is shown tied to ground on page 21.
> 
>   So it looks like if I simply cut the trace between the BC1 finger and its 
> connection to ground on the board it would become Q22 compatible.
> 
> Is it that simple?
> 

I am considering the same modification to my own ADV11-A.  I just located the 
field maintenance print you referenced, so I can now research this a bit 
further myself.

Being a interrupt only device and using on BBS7 to decode the IO page, this 
should function in an Q/Q backplane slot "in theory".   


Jerry
j...@ieee.org

ADV11-A vs. ADV11-C and 22-bit Bus

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   I have an ADV11-A that I would like to use in a Q22 RSX11M+ system. The 
ADV11-C will work in a 22-bit Bus system from what I understand but the ADV11-A 
was made for 18 bit Bus systems. In the OEM Micronote book, Note 5, it states:

Any device which uses backplane pins BC1, BD1, BEl, BF1 or DC1, 001, DEl, 
OF!, for purposes other than BDAL18-21 is electrically incompatible with the 
22-bit bus and may not be used without modification. 


   Further down it lists the ADV11-A as a device that does not meet the 
requirements for a Qbus 22-bit system because:
ADV11 (A012).   A/D Converter. (Use of BC1 for purposes other than 
BDAL18)

   When I look at the Board connector B pin C side 1 (component side) the BC1 
pin is tied to ground. Several other pins are also tied to ground on that 
connector such as BC2, BJ1, and BT1. Other than BC1 which is BDAL18 being tied 
to ground the pins BDAL19 (BD1), BDAL20 (BE1), And BDAL21 (BF1) are all not 
connected to anything. This also matches the field engineering print for 
ADV11-A (B-TC-ADBV11-A-1) where BC1 is shown tied to ground on page 21.

   So it looks like if I simply cut the trace between the BC1 finger and its 
connection to ground on the board it would become Q22 compatible.

Is it that simple?


Thanks,

Mark Matlock

   

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/27/2018 11:44 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:


Time to add CPU/memory in, wire up a console cable and see what happens, I
guess.


With the PSU working everything else should be easier to get going after that.

Did you figure out what the hard drive is? A working RD54 would be
nice and probably worth more than any of the boards.


Well, there's someone's hand-written sticker on the top saying it's a lowly 
RD51 - however the actual p/n sticker says it's an RD53-A and the defect 
table lists it as ST506, 85MB.


Of course it probably doesn't work anyway ;-)


If you start with just the M7606 - CPU and the M7608 - 4MB ram once
you get a console cable built it shouldn't be too hard to get some
basic signs of life.


Yes, that's where I'm at right now...

Console default is 8 data bits, 1 stop bit and no parity (at whatever speed 
the switch is set to), correct?


I'm getting an alternating F and 9 on the hex LED diag display on the 
console panel, no output at all on my terminal, and the M7606 starts with 4 
solid red LEDs, then a solid green, then the middle pair of the red LEDs 
start a simultaneous slow flash on/off (while the outer two plus the green 
remain steady)


This is just with the M7606 CPU and M7808 memory plugged in, nothing else 
(apart from the half-height board at the end of the backplane which 
distributes signals to the RD53) - oh and the LEDs were observed with the 
card cage cover switch held down, so 'under normal operating conditions'.


For console cable wiring I'm using the following ref:

  http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/panels.htm

There's a ref here for the status codes:

https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c01608433

.. however, I'm not sure what the alternating codes mean; 'F' seems to be 
power-related, but I don't know why the CPU would proceed if it thought 
there was a power fault, and '9' is related to terminal ID, but it seems to 
suggest it should automatically continue after 6 seconds.


cheers

Jules

RE: TESTFDC

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

A 380Z, nice! I used to use those when I was at University. My final year 
project used one connected to a research machine called MU6-G for diagnostics. 
All the registers in the machine were connected up as one enormous shift 
register, so you could get and set any register in the machine from the 380Z. I 
wrote a program to do simple diagnostics on the machine. It was a lot of fun.

They don’t come up very often and go for more money than I can justify.

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian
> Graham via cctalk
> Sent: 27 January 2018 19:16
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: TESTFDC
> 
> I’d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond
> W83627HF with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks. 
> I’ve
> been trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last week 
> found
> this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a scrap
> Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually got it
> going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning I can
> archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D
> 
> Typical of my luck a contact has also found an Adaptec 1522A that he’ll
> hopefully send me too, then I’m covered for all eventualities.
> 
> Now where did I put that 8” drive...
> 
> —
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
> w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk  t: @binarydinosaurs
> f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re: TESTFDC

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

That came off of the original import from Dave's old registry. I've still
got to go through and approve the new submissions, planning on doing that
this weekend, as well as adding a few of my own!

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I’d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond
> W83627HF with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks.
> I’ve been trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last
> week found this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a
> scrap Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually
> got it going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning
> I can archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D
>
> Typical of my luck a contact has also found an Adaptec 1522A that he’ll
> hopefully send me too, then I’m covered for all eventualities.
>
> Now where did I put that 8” drive...
>
> —
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
> w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk  t:
> @binarydinosaurs
> f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
>
>

Re: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

Thanks for the tip on heating, Carl.
 
> On Jan 27, 2018, at 11:02 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> Some dumb questions from a guy who has not yet experienced his first head 
> crash on a removable-pack hard drive:
> 
> When it happens, am I correct in assuming that the pack is toast, and should 
> never be loaded again?

I’m fairly new to this as well, but from what I have seen so far, head crashes 
vary in severity from mild bumps/scrapes to deep, brutal gouges. My experience 
with RK05 packs is that media may be recovered after mild crashes with careful 
cleaning, though it takes a good bit of patience and elbow grease to remove 
post-crash smudges of burnt oxide from the disk surfaces and the heads.  
Anything with a deeper gouge will probably just crash again straight away.

I received about a dozen packs with my RK05 drives.  There is a lot of good 
advice in the archives here and over on the vcfed DEC forum about 
opening/inspecting/cleaning packs, and I don’t think I’d try to mount anything 
in my drives without opening it up and giving it an inspection first.  On RK05 
packs this is easy; since they are a single platter you can easily see and 
clean the entirety of both surfaces.  I imagine on a multi-platter pack it 
would be really difficult to inspect or clean without unstacking the platters, 
after which I’d guess alignment and balancing would be problematic?

The dozen or so packs that I received with my drives many years ago had a lot 
of variation in condition.  Some had bad, hard crashes, others just had “bumps 
and bruises”.  The heads of both drives as I received them had lots of oxide 
build up — it doesn’t look as if the previous users (scientists in a lab) had 
very good disk hygiene!

—FritzM.

Re: TESTFDC

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

windows 98 on a athlon 64 shoiuld be one of the fastest windows installs
ever :)

anyhow cool rig for messing with stuff

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I’d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond
> W83627HF with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks.
> I’ve been trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last
> week found this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a
> scrap Athlon64 system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually
> got it going earlier and can now read/write single density floppies meaning
> I can archive the disks I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D
>
> Typical of my luck a contact has also found an Adaptec 1522A that he’ll
> hopefully send me too, then I’m covered for all eventualities.
>
> Now where did I put that 8” drive...
>
> —
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
> w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk  t:
> @binarydinosaurs
> f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
>
>

TESTFDC

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

I’d like to thank whoever it was who added the Abit K8V Pro/Winbond W83627HF 
with its test results to the TESTFDC page for writing SSSD disks. I’ve been 
trying to get a similar setup going for a fortnight now and last week found 
this motherboard on e*ay for Not Many UK Pounds. Coupled with a scrap Athlon64 
system from work and a scratched Windows98 CD I eventually got it going earlier 
and can now read/write single density floppies meaning I can archive the disks 
I got with my Research Machines 380Z :D

Typical of my luck a contact has also found an Adaptec 1522A that he’ll 
hopefully send me too, then I’m covered for all eventualities.

Now where did I put that 8” drive...

—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk  t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

I thoroughly enjoyed Marc's video of the head cleaning.

Some dumb questions from a guy who has not yet experienced his first head crash 
on a removable-pack hard drive:

When it happens, am I correct in assuming that the pack is toast, and should 
never be loaded again?

My removable-pack drives are DEC RL02 drives and a Data General drive with one 
removable and one fixed platter, using cartridges of the same style as the 
RL02. The DG drive has a glass encoder, so I presume that it requires 
realignment after removing the heads for cleaning. I might have acquired an 
alignment pack for it already. But since the RL02 drives use servo bursts on 
the media, do they require realignment after removing and replacing the heads?

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 27 Jan 2018, at 17:04, Jules Richardson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 01/26/2018 07:15 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>> After that... well, I need to work out how to get the entire supply
>> assembly to start up while it's open, so that I can work on it outside the
>> machine - then I can at least start looking for differences between the two
>> supplies (boy, are those things complex, but maybe I'll get lucky and it's
>> a bad solder joint or cap somewhere)
> 
> OK, now I feel like an idiot :-)

We’ve all been there including me earlier! When you have two PSUs in a machine 
but only one is connected to the mains make sure you don’t connect a flying 
lead from the OTHER one and spend 2 hours wondering why the bloody thing 
doesn’t work.

> Anyway, I tweaked my loads to draw a little more current - and bingo! I'm now 
> getting stable +5V and +12V outputs on both PSUs, a working card cage fan, 
> and the DC OK light comes on.

This is good, particularly since my own BA123 has been sat in 3 garages then a 
utility room since 1998, you’re making me think it MIGHT just power up without 
any issues. 

And THEN I can tackle the RL02 that’s sat on top of it… being able to read my 
own source code from the 80s would be a special thing indeed.

—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re: RK05 rear filters/brackets

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

On Jan 27, 2018, at 8:46 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
wrote:
>  http://gunkies.org/wiki/RK05_disk_drive#Prefilter_frame

Thank you!

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Time to add CPU/memory in, wire up a console cable and see what happens, I
> guess.

With the PSU working everything else should be easier to get going after that.

Did you figure out what the hard drive is? A working RD54 would be
nice and probably worth more than any of the boards.

If you start with just the M7606 - CPU and the M7608 - 4MB ram once
you get a console cable built it shouldn't be too hard to get some
basic signs of life. The M7606 KA630 CPU console firmware is fairly
limited compared to the subsequent M7620 KA650 and M7625 KA655. It
doesn't have a SHOW command to show memory and device details, and
doesn't even have a HELP command to list available commands.

Re: DEC H7260 PSU fault

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/26/2018 07:15 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:

After that... well, I need to work out how to get the entire supply
assembly to start up while it's open, so that I can work on it outside the
machine - then I can at least start looking for differences between the two
supplies (boy, are those things complex, but maybe I'll get lucky and it's
a bad solder joint or cap somewhere)


OK, now I feel like an idiot :-)

I started looking into this, and found that neither PSU would do anything 
without being plugged into the (currently unpopulated) backplane. My 
initial assumption was that there was some interaction between the 
backplane and the "other" wires between it and the PSUs (i.e. the ones that 
don't carry +5V or +12V).


However, on a whim (and I really don't know why I did this) I plugged the 
+5V PSU connectors up to the backplane, but left the others (carrying +12V 
and the other signals) unplugged. Doing that, things behaved as before - 
the top PSU started operating normally, and the lower PSU started putting 
out around 2.5V.


It got me wondering though - maybe it was simply a load issue, and with my 
dummy loads I was right at the (lower) limit for the PSU regulation to 
work; perhaps I had just enough for the top PSU to operate normally (but 
only with the backplane hooked up too) and the lower PSU (for whatever 
reason) wanted just that little bit more than the top one.


Anyway, I tweaked my loads to draw a little more current - and bingo! I'm 
now getting stable +5V and +12V outputs on both PSUs, a working card cage 
fan, and the DC OK light comes on.


So, in summary... with no load at all, the PSUs do nothing, but with *some* 
load they either work OK, or the regulation is goofy and the outputs are low.


Time to add CPU/memory in, wire up a console cable and see what happens, I 
guess.


cheers

Jules

Re: RK05 rear filters/brackets

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Fritz Mueller

> My restored RK05 drives are missing their rear air filters (the ones that
> cover the back of the card cage).

The formal DEC name is "prefilter" (since the air that comes in here goes
through the cards, and the air blower, and then through the absolute filter
on the way to the pack), and the metal thing that holds it on is the "frame".

> I'd really appreciate a few photos so I can see what these looked like
> and how they were put together?

Here you go:

  http://gunkies.org/wiki/RK05_disk_drive#Prefilter_frame

pictures and all the dimensions I could think of to measure. (I didn't bother
with the hole locations, since you can get them off the drive.) The little
hand-knob-bolts are DEC standard (used elsewhere too).

Noel

Re: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

The most versatile, effective cleaning tool /ever/. Not even sarcastic.

=]

--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 3:45 PM, dwight via cctalk 
wrote:

> I always use my finger and finger nail. Your finger is very sensitive to
> even the tiniest piece of crud. I then just need to do a final clean with
> IPA.
>
> Dwight
>
>
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Fritz Mueller
> via cctalk 
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:15:34 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: ultrasonic cleaning for disk heads
>
> I watched with great interest one of curiousmarc’s recent Alto videos,
> wherein they clean a Diablo drive head ultrasonically.  I’ve been
> struggling a bit with my restored RK05 drives to completely clean the heads
> after minor head crashes.  Not being able to get them really sparkling
> clean makes me always worried about running the drives for more than a few
> minutes at a time, and a little nervous every time I spin them up….
> Scrubbing and scrubbing and scrubbing with IPA and kimwipes just doesn’t
> seem to get all the crud off.
>
> I do have an alignment pack that I could use to re-align the heads after
> removing them for a proper cleaning this way.  Decent ultrasonic cleaners
> aren’t terribly expensive and might be nice to have around the shop anyway
> (I could also do all my eyeglasses :-)
>
> In the video, the heads are submerged in IPA in a glass cylinder, which is
> then placed in the ultrasonic bath.
>
> Has anybody on the list here done this and have tips/advice beyond what
> can be seen in the video?  It looked very effective!  I’m also having a
> little trouble sourcing the squat form glass graduated cylinder online.
>
> cheers,
>—FritzM.
>
>