Re: PDP-8/e

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:10 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

> I’m sure that would work  but I only have an 8650  110 baud only card
> Rod
>

The M8650 does a wide variety of baud rates.   See here:
https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/hard8e/kl8e.html

- Josh



>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 110 baud
>
> From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:41
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
> > On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> >> On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
> >>> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or
> >> CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.
> >
> > A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support
> > XON/XOFF, though.
> >
> The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called
> reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
> You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the
> function. Here's what I did:
>
> Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.
>
>   Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware
> flow control.
>
> 1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input
> that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.
>
> 2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we
> are going to use an inverter.
>
> 3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19,
> the UART.
>  This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that
> it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
>  Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just
> moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.
>
> 4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is
> what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.
>
> 5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is
> the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Vintage computers and electronics
> www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
> www.decmuseum.org
>
>
>

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

I’m sure that would work  but I only have an 8650  110 baud only card
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 110 baud 

From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
Sent: 08 December 2018 03:41
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
> On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>> On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
>>> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>>>
>>>
>> Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or 
>> CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.
>
> A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support 
> XON/XOFF, though.
>
The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called 
reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the 
function. Here's what I did:

Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.

  Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware 
flow control.

1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input 
that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.

2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we 
are going to use an inverter.

3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19, 
the UART.
     This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that 
it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
     Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just 
moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.

4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is 
what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.

5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is 
the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.

Bob

-- 
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8/e

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 12:36 AM Josh Dersch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > It can only do 110 baud !!
> >
>
> Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
> installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
> higher baud rates.
>

Maybe an M865? I don't remember if those have jumpers or not. I seem to
recall it being current loop only, though.

Kyle

Re: PDP-8/e

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

> It can only do 110 baud !!
>

Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
higher baud rates.

- Josh



>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> > On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
> >>
> > Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup,
> > ought to be reported to the developers.
>
> But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to
> something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that
> requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical
> for Rod.
>
> --
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull
>
>

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

It can only do 110 baud !!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
>> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
>>
> Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup, 
> ought to be reported to the developers.

But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to 
something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that 
requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical 
for Rod.

-- 
Pete
Pete Turnbull

IBM SMS Data Capture - IBM 1410 update

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

I have finished the 3rd phase of my IBM 1410 SMS computer
reverse-engineering project. The first phase was writing a software
machine-cycle simulator - almost 20 years ago, in part to verify I had
usable software. The 2nd phase was writing code and setting up a
database to do the 3rd phase - capturing data from IBM Automated Logic
Diagrams (ALDs).

The ALDs comprise 752 pages from 9 of the 11 total volumes of system
schematics/engineering drawings, volumes II-X. (Volume I is the power
supply and volume XI is additional memory).

It took me roughly 375 hours of time (probably more like 450 - not all
time was captured) to capture the data into a database that contains
10,565 ALD logic blocks, 1281 "DOT functions" where outputs of gates
joined as a "Wired OR", with 4222 distinct signal names appearing as
12,398 entries on the 752 pages, and over 32,700 individual connections.

The sheets (as reprints from scanned originals) stacked up are 2" high.
The second photo is one of them (with marks I made during data capture)
is pictured here. The third photo is a screenshot of that page in the
application I developed. (The numbers at the bottom, which do not appear
on the original sheet, are a gate number on a given SMS card, the number
of inputs to that block, and the number of outputs from the block. The
little "A" characters appearing between columns represent "DOT functions."

I ran a regression in Excel to estimate the time for capturing a given
sheet, which ended up as:

Time (in minutes per page) = -7.1 +
1.00 * # ALD blocks on the page (the rectangles) +
0.50 * distinct signals coming from / going to other sheet(s) +
2.24 * # "DOT Functions" on the page +
0.15 * # of connections to/from ALD blocks on the page +
0.39 * # of edge connection locations (at the bottom)

Most of the residuals - the difference between the actual value recorded
and what the equation would calculate - were under 25%.

The "DOT Function" coefficient is probably correlated to the overall
complexity of the page - "DOT Functions" themselves were easy to enter.

The next step is to clean up some things in the application and tune the
database to perform better, at which point I expect to make the
application available via some online GIT repository so it can be used
for other SMS machines (IBM 1620, IBM 1401, IBM 7000 series and the like).

Then it will be on to synthesis of sections of the machine (CPU, memory,
console) for which I have drawings and some kind of stand-in for parts I
don't have drawings for (1414 I/O Synchronizers, tape drives, etc.).

The photos referenced can be found at the public facebook post at:

https://www.facebook.com/jay.jaeger.3/posts/2100428726685075

Re: Interesting RK8E fault

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 9:58 PM Josh Dersch  wrote:

> Hi all --
>
> Finally got all the parts together (and my act together) to actually get
> an RK05 lashed up to my PDP-8/e -- only took a decade or so :).  I fixed a
> few problems with the RK05 and it appears to be behaving very nicely.
>
> The RK8E controller is mostly working properly but fails interestingly
> when running the formatter, and during the exerciser -- on cylinder 128 and
> 192 and very infrequently on cylinder 64 it will get a cylinder mismatch
> when doing the seek.  When running the formatter during the verification
> pass, on cyls 64 and 128 if I retry the read it'll continue without issues,
> but it's never successful on a retry on cylinder 192.  I tried hooking it
> to the RK05 in my 11/40 and it exhibits the same behavior, so I'm guessing
> the drive isn't at fault.  And the error is consistent across packs (of
> which I have only two).
>
> Apart from that fault the drive and controller seem to work fine -- I
> wrote out an OS/8 pack with Adventure on it (or at least the first 191
> cylinders of it) and it works without issue.
>
> Reading the RK8E service docs and schematics, the cylinder address compare
> is done by reusing the CRC buffer, so I suspect the issue is in or around
> there -- the big problem is that debugging it is rather painful since that
> logic is in the middle board of a three board set, with jumper blocks on
> top -- so bringing it out on an extender isn't an option.  I'm curious if
> anyone's seen this issue or is so very familiar with the logic that the
> fault is obvious.
>
> I suspected the 7496 shift register at E14 which takes in the cylinder
> address to be compared w/the header on disk, and I went ahead and replaced
> it in the hopes that I'd get lucky, but no go.
>
> Anyone have any advice?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
>
I'll add that during the format/verification the drive seeks properly (i.e.
it's not missing a step or overstepping), which I've confirmed by watching
the thing walk through the tracks with the cover off.

- Josh

Interesting RK8E fault

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

Hi all --

Finally got all the parts together (and my act together) to actually get an
RK05 lashed up to my PDP-8/e -- only took a decade or so :).  I fixed a few
problems with the RK05 and it appears to be behaving very nicely.

The RK8E controller is mostly working properly but fails interestingly when
running the formatter, and during the exerciser -- on cylinder 128 and 192
and very infrequently on cylinder 64 it will get a cylinder mismatch when
doing the seek.  When running the formatter during the verification pass,
on cyls 64 and 128 if I retry the read it'll continue without issues, but
it's never successful on a retry on cylinder 192.  I tried hooking it to
the RK05 in my 11/40 and it exhibits the same behavior, so I'm guessing the
drive isn't at fault.  And the error is consistent across packs (of which I
have only two).

Apart from that fault the drive and controller seem to work fine -- I wrote
out an OS/8 pack with Adventure on it (or at least the first 191 cylinders
of it) and it works without issue.

Reading the RK8E service docs and schematics, the cylinder address compare
is done by reusing the CRC buffer, so I suspect the issue is in or around
there -- the big problem is that debugging it is rather painful since that
logic is in the middle board of a three board set, with jumper blocks on
top -- so bringing it out on an extender isn't an option.  I'm curious if
anyone's seen this issue or is so very familiar with the logic that the
fault is obvious.

I suspected the 7496 shift register at E14 which takes in the cylinder
address to be compared w/the header on disk, and I went ahead and replaced
it in the hopes that I'd get lucky, but no go.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks,
Josh

Re: Genrad 2511 Vibration Control System

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 6:16 PM Al Kossow via cctalk  bought this on eBay suspecting it was LSI-11 based because of the floppies
> labeled DY:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm//192437124163
>
> It's kinda neat, has a very late (1989) AED WINC-05 disk controller in it,
> 11/73
> and a bunch of custom daq boards.
>
> It also has a Dilog Qbus to Unibus converter (didn't even know they made
> one)
> and it appears all the custom boards are on the Unibus.
>
> I doubt I'll ever find docs for it though.
>

Total score...

Warner

>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:

On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or 
CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.


A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support 
XON/XOFF, though.


The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called 
reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the 
function. Here's what I did:


Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.

 Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware 
flow control.


1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).  This is the input 
that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.


2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we 
are going to use an inverter.


3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19, 
the UART.
    This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that 
it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
    Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just 
moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.


4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is 
what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.


5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is 
the "reader-run flip-flop".  Now RTS follows the reader run signal.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?

Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major screwup, 
ought to be reported to the developers.


But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to 
something faster anyway?  Although on one of the serial cards, that 
requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical 
for Rod.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or CTS 
pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.


A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support XON/XOFF, 
though.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 11:46 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?

Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  
major screwup, ought to be reported to the developers.


Jon

stty can set the speed to 110 with no trouble, so I don't 
see why it wouldn't be a trivial change to minicom to add 
the 110 speed to the list.  The source should be easily 
downloaded and patched for this.


Jon

will be having some extra brochures for plated memory from Memory systems in El Suguendo Calif. Available soon

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

Will be having some extra brochures for plated memory from Memory systems Inc.  
in El Segundo Calif. Available soon.  appears  to  be  from month  4  of  1973  
and  3  different   sheets  both  sides.

 
I  know  about  core memory  but this is  something  I never  used..
 
these may be out there already  somewhere     ?
 
Ed#
 
 

Genrad 2511 Vibration Control System

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

bought this on eBay suspecting it was LSI-11 based because of the floppies 
labeled DY:

https://www.ebay.com/itm//192437124163

It's kinda neat, has a very late (1989) AED WINC-05 disk controller in it, 11/73
and a bunch of custom daq boards.

It also has a Dilog Qbus to Unibus converter (didn't even know they made one)
and it appears all the custom boards are on the Unibus.

I doubt I'll ever find docs for it though.

In search of DOMAIN OS for DN10000/Prism

[null via cctalk]

Please ping me if you have media or archives of any version of domain for the 
DN10K...

Thanks,

- I

Re: PDP-8/e/f/m Front Panel Knob Wanted (also general information)

[Rick Murphy via cctalk]

On 12/7/2018 7:20 PM, Thomas Moss via cctalk wrote:

Hi All,

I have a PDP-8/e that's missing the knob on the front panel.
Does anyone have a spare for sale, or know of a compatible part?


Do you mean the knob that selects which data to display on the panel lights?

Got one,  bit dinged up but usable. It's a simple setscrew-attached knob.

    -Rick

PDP-8/e/f/m Front Panel Knob Wanted (also general information)

[Thomas Moss via cctalk]

Hi All,

I have a PDP-8/e that's missing the knob on the front panel.
Does anyone have a spare for sale, or know of a compatible part?
Looking up the DEC parts numbers has turned up nothing but the
engineering drawings...

I've never seen another one in person so I can't tell if the knob is meant
to attach to a shaft on the rotary switch, or if the knob itself is meant
to have a shaft. Either way, I'm lacking both, so have been making do with
a screw wrapped in tape.

Regards,
-Tom

mo...@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: PDP-8/e

[Rob Doyle via cctalk]

Teraterm on Windows definitely goes to 110 baud. I use it all the time...

Rob.

On 12/7/2018 10:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

someone should get the source off him and put it out on  the web

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 4:34 PM Mattis Lind via cctalk 
wrote:

> Den fre 7 dec. 2018 kl 23:04 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>:
>
> >
> >
> > On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> > > Anyone has old DECUS distributions?
> >
> > For all intents and purposes, no
> >
> > DECUS threw them out.
> >
>
> Sad.
>
> >
> > About the only thing that survives are the titles that
> > were included on some of the SIG tapes.
> >
> > Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual
> > collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my
> > breath for it to happen.
> >
>
> I will check the labels of all the RL01, RL02, RK05 and RK07 packs I have
> to see if there happens to be any DECUS  material on them.
>
> However I found one Bill Seiler in Santa Cruz that is very likely to be the
> very Bill Seiler that wrote the original SPACE WAR for PDP-11. Since he at
> least had the source in 2006 it might be so that he still has it?
>

Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

Den fre 7 dec. 2018 kl 23:04 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org>:

>
>
> On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> > Anyone has old DECUS distributions?
>
> For all intents and purposes, no
>
> DECUS threw them out.
>

Sad.

>
> About the only thing that survives are the titles that
> were included on some of the SIG tapes.
>
> Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual
> collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my
> breath for it to happen.
>

I will check the labels of all the RL01, RL02, RK05 and RK07 packs I have
to see if there happens to be any DECUS  material on them.

However I found one Bill Seiler in Santa Cruz that is very likely to be the
very Bill Seiler that wrote the original SPACE WAR for PDP-11. Since he at
least had the source in 2006 it might be so that he still has it?

RE: IT books available

[Donald via cctalk]

Sorry. The lot was spoken for at 14:00 sharp Pacific time.

In my best Emily Litella voice: Never mind.  :-)

-Original Message-
From: Guy Dunphy [mailto:gu...@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 2:17 PM
To: cct...@emailtoilet.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: IT books available

At 01:32 PM 7/12/2018 -0800, you wrote:
>I don't have time or patience to list individually.  I have found it takes
>at least 20 minutes per item to list something. Lots of time.  Plus the
>listing fees, selling fees and postage vs what I could sell them for puts
me
>at less than half old minimum wage. :-)

True. Plus the individual trips to the post office.

However that's ebay and this is here. I like some of them.
What's the approximate cost to P these 7 volumes for me to my reshipper in
Hawthorne, CA 90250 ?

Slide 2
AS/400 - concepts and facilities
CLIST programming   *
Introduction to SNA Networking
Using IBM's ISPF dialog manager *
REXX in the TSO environment *

Slide 4
Programming solutions handbook for IBM micro-computers
Advanced assembler language and MVS interfaces

(*) I have no idea what this is, just curious. If someone else really needs
it, I defer.
The others listed are also for curiosity and 'library reasons' not actual
need.

-- Guy


>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chris Hanson [mailto:cmhan...@eschatologist.net] 
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 12:53 PM
>To: cct...@emailtoilet.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts
>Subject: Re: IT books available
>
>On Dec 7, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Donald via cctalk 
>wrote:
>> 
>> Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.
>
>Did you list only the lot or the individual books? Asking people to buy the
>whole lot might be the issue.
>
>  -- Chris
>
>
>

Re: Opening RL02 disk pack

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Paul Birkel

>> I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM
>> System/3  DEC may have used their own format (and servo track
>> stuff), I don't know much about the 5440.

> Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way?

I took a look, and found a manual for a 5440:

  
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/system3/GA33-3002-0_5444_5440_ComponentsDescr_Aug70.pdf

and the details (format, etc) are indeed different. The packs are physically
compatible, but that's as far as it goes.

Noel

RE: IT books available

[Guy Dunphy via cctalk]

At 01:32 PM 7/12/2018 -0800, you wrote:
>I don't have time or patience to list individually.  I have found it takes
>at least 20 minutes per item to list something. Lots of time.  Plus the
>listing fees, selling fees and postage vs what I could sell them for puts me
>at less than half old minimum wage. :-)

True. Plus the individual trips to the post office.

However that's ebay and this is here. I like some of them.
What's the approximate cost to P these 7 volumes for me to my reshipper in 
Hawthorne, CA 90250 ?

Slide 2
AS/400 - concepts and facilities
CLIST programming   *
Introduction to SNA Networking
Using IBM's ISPF dialog manager *
REXX in the TSO environment *

Slide 4
Programming solutions handbook for IBM micro-computers
Advanced assembler language and MVS interfaces

(*) I have no idea what this is, just curious. If someone else really needs it, 
I defer.
The others listed are also for curiosity and 'library reasons' not actual need.

-- Guy


>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chris Hanson [mailto:cmhan...@eschatologist.net] 
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 12:53 PM
>To: cct...@emailtoilet.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: IT books available
>
>On Dec 7, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Donald via cctalk 
>wrote:
>> 
>> Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.
>
>Did you list only the lot or the individual books? Asking people to buy the
>whole lot might be the issue.
>
>  -- Chris
>
>
>

Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> Anyone has old DECUS distributions?

For all intents and purposes, no

DECUS threw them out.

About the only thing that survives are the titles that
were included on some of the SIG tapes.

Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual
collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my
breath for it to happen.

Re: IT books available

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2018-12-07 4:37 PM, Donald via cctalk wrote:
> When I searched I saw something that said $2.63. I took that to be per
> pound. Now I see elsewhere a 26 pound box is $15.41.
> 
> So let's says shipping will be $32.  If it turns out to be more I will
> request more. :-)
> 


Shipping isn't such a simple linear function. It's best to quote by
_actual_ size, weight, and service, and tell buyers which service you've
quoted.

It's also perhaps best, as Chris said, not to expect people to buy
things in 52-pound lots.

--Toby
(frequent international buyer)

RE: IT books available

[Donald via cctalk]

When I searched I saw something that said $2.63. I took that to be per
pound. Now I see elsewhere a 26 pound box is $15.41.

So let's says shipping will be $32.  If it turns out to be more I will
request more. :-)

-Original Message-
From: TeoZ [mailto:t...@neo.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 1:03 PM
To: cct...@emailtoilet.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: IT books available

I think you need to recheck the shipping estimate.

-Original Message- 
From: Donald via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 3:30 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: IT books available

Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.



Being offered here for the price of USPS Media Mail cost. Total of 52 lbs of
books in 2 boxes.  I estimate shipping at $137.



Price will be actual shipping cost payable by PayPal.



See books at  http://www.myimagecollection.com/ITBooks/



Slides pause for 5 seconds each or you can click the Pause button.



No pressure but they hit the trashcan 12/14/2018.  J



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

RE: IT books available

[Donald via cctalk]

I don't have time or patience to list individually.  I have found it takes
at least 20 minutes per item to list something. Lots of time.  Plus the
listing fees, selling fees and postage vs what I could sell them for puts me
at less than half old minimum wage. :-)

-Original Message-
From: Chris Hanson [mailto:cmhan...@eschatologist.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 12:53 PM
To: cct...@emailtoilet.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: IT books available

On Dec 7, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Donald via cctalk 
wrote:
> 
> Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.

Did you list only the lot or the individual books? Asking people to buy the
whole lot might be the issue.

  -- Chris

DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

Anyone has old DECUS distributions? I am looking for the PDP-11 SPACE WAR
program. It is supposed to be 11-192, written by William (Bill) Seilier and
Lawrence (Larry) Bryant in 1974.

https://i.imgur.com/rjaWX4X.png

It is a space war like program for the PDP-11/10 with AA11 and AD01.

Much later Bill rewrote it in C for the MSP430:

http://processors.wiki.ti.com/images/tmp/f1276339401-2015330541.html
https://github.com/dlitz/openmsp430/blob/master/fpga/actel_m1a3pl_dev_kit/software/spacewar/main.c

But where is the original PAL-11 source? Anyone?

ISO NCD M88K firmware dump

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

The MAME folks have the 68K versions of the terminals mostly working in 
simulation
now, and are wondering if anyone could dump the firmware from the 88K model, 
which
has a similar hardware design.

Re: IT books available

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I think you need to recheck the shipping estimate.

-Original Message- 
From: Donald via cctalk

Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 3:30 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: IT books available

Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.



Being offered here for the price of USPS Media Mail cost. Total of 52 lbs of
books in 2 boxes.  I estimate shipping at $137.



Price will be actual shipping cost payable by PayPal.



See books at  http://www.myimagecollection.com/ITBooks/



Slides pause for 5 seconds each or you can click the Pause button.



No pressure but they hit the trashcan 12/14/2018.  J



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)

[r.stricklin via cctalk]

On Dec 6, 2018, at 2:39 PM, r.stricklin wrote:

> On Dec 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Josh Dersch via cctech wrote:
> 
>> The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a
>> text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal.
> 
> The bwone is a 1024x1024 framebuffer. 768 lines visible; the rest was 
> offscreen.

Josh is correct, 800 lines visible. I was thinking of something else.

ok
bear.

-- 
until further notice

Re: IT books available

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

On Dec 7, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Donald via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.

Did you list only the lot or the individual books? Asking people to buy the 
whole lot might be the issue.

  -- Chris

Tektronix xp217

[Carlo Pisani via cctalk]

hi
I have for sale a Tektronix xp217 unit, with its PSU and original CD software.
let me know if someone is interested.

Re: PDP-8/e

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

tip is the standard BSD program for calling other unix systems. It's a fine
terminal program. 'tip -110 com1' is all you'd need to do in this case :).

Warner

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:39 AM Rod G8DGR 
wrote:

> Er whats tip?
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Warner Losh via cctalk 
> *Sent: *07 December 2018 17:36
> *To: *systems_glitch ; General Discussion:
> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> *Subject: *Re: PDP-8/e
>
>
>
> These days I just use tip.
>
>
>
> Warner
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 10:25 AM systems_glitch via cctalk <
>
> cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:
>
>
>
> > Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
>
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
>
> > >
>
> > > TTFN - Guy
>
> > >
>
> > > > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
>
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > >> OK now I need a little help.
>
> > > >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
>
> > > the reader on an ASR33?
>
> > > >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I
>
> > have
>
> > > long forgotten
>
> > > >
>
> > > > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several
> other
>
> > > utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
>
> > > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
>
> > > > and on mine:
>
> > > > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --
>
> > > > Pete
>
> > > > Pete Turnbull
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>

RE: Sun 1 and Framebuffer

[Earl Baugh via cctalk]

>
> On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:39 AM Liam Proven via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell  wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that
> it
> > was made by Sun.
> > >
> > > I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be
> > the 'first' model.
> >
> > Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with
> > the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum
> > back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the
> > world of academic Unix usage. :-)
> >
> > Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was
> > a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
> > not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
> > windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
>
> The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a
> text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal.
>
> See the picture in this article, for example:
> https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sun-Microsystems-Inc


I can 100% confirm this.  I have a Sun 1/100 that runs just fine...and it
fires up Suntools with mouse and windows... Windowing pretty much the same
as any other
Sun running circa Sun OS 3.2It came standard with B/W framebuffer.   I
also have the color framebuffer option (not currently installed... don't
have a monitor that
works with that)  The base system has a monitor that does what looks like
the standard Sun 1152x900 resolution (I've not confirmed that but sure
looks the same as my other early Suns...)

Earl

IT books available

[Donald via cctalk]

Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.

 

Being offered here for the price of USPS Media Mail cost. Total of 52 lbs of
books in 2 boxes.  I estimate shipping at $137.

 

Price will be actual shipping cost payable by PayPal. 

 

See books at  http://www.myimagecollection.com/ITBooks/

 

Slides pause for 5 seconds each or you can click the Pause button.

 

No pressure but they hit the trashcan 12/14/2018.  J

 

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Ethan via cctalk]

10ms-30ms of latency in most cases.  One frame time at 60fps is 16ms,
so if you wait for each picture to be completely scanned in over HDMI
before you start scanning it out to the glass then that's going to set
your minimum latency.  And obviously if the input frame rate is less
than 60fps it's possible that the latency may go up.


We had an arcade game at MAGFest (Music and Gaming fest with a computer 
museum room in the greater DC area) that used dual LCD TVs from a hdmi 
splitter. The players complained that the one side was too laggy. Friend 
put a LCD latency test unit on the displays, and sure enough one screen 
was about 30ms behind the other. Playing with the test widget (it's a box 
with a hdmi cable, box goes against screen and detects the flashing) the 
top of the screen and bottom of screen is definitely off a chunk of time 
as the rows are scanned in order across the panel (at least on TVs we 
had.) We swapped it out.


The LED video wall stuff I play with scans the image in every 8 lines, but 
it's much slower than a TV.


I don't know how humans do it, but on some of the music rhythm arcade 
games that use LCDs it's desired to have the original LCD over any 
replacement since the timing of the game is meant for it. People have made 
hacked DLLs that allow adjustment of timing windows but it's never as good 
as the original, which is why the original LCDs sometimes go for $5000. 
These games are imported from Japan.


How does a human do this? You hit the button as the line comes to the 
bottom of the screen where the solid line is across the bottom. This is 
why the timing is important:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy2h2yDKYyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nGhSAoQqcA

(Those aren't really on fast, the games go quite a bit faster than that 
even)


- Ethan


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Phil Blundell via cctalk]

On Fri, 2018-12-07 at 14:18 -0500, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> Does a plain LCD panel have delay?  If not, what about a TV used as a
> monitor?

Depends what you mean by a "plain LCD panel".  If you mean the glass
itself, no, they generally scan synchronously to the input signal and
don't have any appreciable delay.  But all commercially-available LCD
TVs and monitors have at least some input buffering which adds maybe
10ms-30ms of latency in most cases.  One frame time at 60fps is 16ms,
so if you wait for each picture to be completely scanned in over HDMI
before you start scanning it out to the glass then that's going to set
your minimum latency.  And obviously if the input frame rate is less
than 60fps it's possible that the latency may go up.

TVs tend to have more picture processing than monitors, and also less
market pressure for low latency.  But there's very little technical
difference between an LCD TV and an LCD monitor.

p.

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 2:06 PM, Ethan via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> On a recent Reddit thread someone claimed that old PC monitors
>> and tube TVs are rising in popularity and price due to retro gamers.
>> Is this true?
> 
> SOME TVs. Not every TV. The gamers want the pro broadcast video monitors that 
> have RGB inputs. Sony PVM and the like. Search ebay for Sony PVM RGB and you 
> will see some.
> 
> Digital TVs usually have to buffer a frame before displaying it so displayed 
> images are one frame behind (or more.) Old games were authored for their look 
> on a CRT, so on LCDs you can see compression color artifacts and whatever 
> else.

I know digital TV is compressed, but I didn't think that the video link from 
the TV machinery to the display is compressed.  That's HDMI, which is a 
derivative of DVI, which is an uncompressed pixel stream.  Or am I confused?  
You don't get compression artifacts when displaying computer displays on an LCD 
panel.

Does a plain LCD panel have delay?  If not, what about a TV used as a monitor?  
My new 4k TV can display HDMI from my laptop.  But it offers to do image 
processing on it, which I turned off because I don't want my display messed 
with.  That suggests it might be doing buffering in order to have a chance to 
do that manipulation.

paul

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Ethan via cctalk]

If you want to avoid shipping you see if there's a vintage arcade game
group in your area and see what they are looking for.  Most people seem to
be replacing tubes with equivalent size panels, though.


BLASPHEMY! N!

There are no LCDs that are 4:3 above 21". Not 25", not 27/29" models.

The arcade geeks have a database of curb found TV models, what tube is in 
them by part #, yoke coil ohm readings and neck connector. That way they 
can match up 19" tubes to Wells Gardner, Electrohome, Sanyo and other 
arcade monitor chassis to replace the burned in tubes from games that 
didn't change home screen enough (Pac Man, Ms Pac, Centipede, etc.)


There are people that take classic games, throw in crap 19" LCD panel and 
a $40 60-in-1 board and sell them for $2000. But that's not the 
collectors.



--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Ethan via cctalk]

On a recent Reddit thread someone claimed that old PC monitors
and tube TVs are rising in popularity and price due to retro gamers.
Is this true?


SOME TVs. Not every TV. The gamers want the pro broadcast video monitors 
that have RGB inputs. Sony PVM and the like. Search ebay for Sony PVM RGB 
and you will see some.


Digital TVs usually have to buffer a frame before displaying it so 
displayed images are one frame behind (or more.) Old games were authored 
for their look on a CRT, so on LCDs you can see compression color 
artifacts and whatever else.


The PVMs were very expensive new, so it's like driving an old high end 
car I guess.


They may also be into other Sony and higher end late model TVs, but at 
less $$$ than the PVMs.


I chalk a lot of it up to a hobby and a hunt, but they're keeping high 
quality hardware in usable condition so +1 for them!



I wouldn't want to sell anything on eBay I couldn't hold in
one hand at arm's length, especially when it comes to packing
and shipping.


A lot of the PVM monitors are less than 25".

Crap VGA monitors can still be found, but harder to find the nicer ones.

CGA monitors (Tandy CM-11?) seem to be quite difficult to find now. My 
friend's CM-5 blew the flyback when it was out at an event and afaik China 
isn't reproducing anything like that yet (they do for the arcade 
monitors.)


I own 1 Sony PVM, a cube. Need the speakers that screw to the sides. My 
friend who gave it to me has about 20 of them including a $30,000 
reference mointor that is widescreen CRT Sony 16:9. Maybe a 23" picture 
and heavy as all hell.



- Ethan

--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Sun Monochrome TTL Monitors

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:46 AM Stefan Skoglund 
wrote:

>
> You have one the ECL one ie (i think) bwtwo.
>
> https://www.sun3arc.org/FEH/CPU/3_60.phtml


Ahh, so it's built onto the board itself. Cool. I'll see about what it
would take to convert it to something else; might be a good Verilog
project. Might see about using the project Al mentioned for inspiration.

Thanks!

Kyle

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Eric Korpela via cctalk]

If you want to avoid shipping you see if there's a vintage arcade game
group in your area and see what they are looking for.  Most people seem to
be replacing tubes with equivalent size panels, though.

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:01 AM John Foust via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> On a recent Reddit thread someone claimed that old PC monitors
> and tube TVs are rising in popularity and price due to retro gamers.
>
> Is this true?
>
> I wouldn't want to sell anything on eBay I couldn't hold in
> one hand at arm's length, especially when it comes to packing
> and shipping.
>
> - John
>
>

-- 
Eric Korpela
korp...@ssl.berkeley.edu
AST:7731^29u18e3

Re: Market improving for monitors?

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

then theres those of us that take old tvs and make walls of tvs to display
games or animations at parties and such

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:01 PM John Foust via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> On a recent Reddit thread someone claimed that old PC monitors
> and tube TVs are rising in popularity and price due to retro gamers.
>
> Is this true?
>
> I wouldn't want to sell anything on eBay I couldn't hold in
> one hand at arm's length, especially when it comes to packing
> and shipping.
>
> - John
>
>

Market improving for monitors?

[John Foust via cctalk]

On a recent Reddit thread someone claimed that old PC monitors 
and tube TVs are rising in popularity and price due to retro gamers.

Is this true?

I wouldn't want to sell anything on eBay I couldn't hold in 
one hand at arm's length, especially when it comes to packing
and shipping.  

- John

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?

Oh, WOW!  Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud!  major 
screwup, ought to be reported to the developers.


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.


Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port 
(xon/xoff or CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, 
too, so cat would work.


Jon

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 17:22, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.

Thanks,
Jonathan


That's just what I was going to say :-)  And also provided you remember 
which entry in /dev to redirect cat's output to, and what arcane stty 
command you need to set baud rate and word size on that, and that you 
have already edited the leader, trailer, and any junk off the tape file 
you downloaded from the 'net :-)



On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy


On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:


OK now I need a little help.
Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate

the reader on an ASR33?

I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have

long forgotten


For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other

utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:

http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
and on mine:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull






--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Er whats tip?


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Warner Losh via cctalk
Sent: 07 December 2018 17:36
To: systems_glitch; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

These days I just use tip.

Warner

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 10:25 AM systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> > > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK now I need a little help.
> > >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
> > the reader on an ASR33?
> > >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I
> have
> > long forgotten
> > >
> > > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
> > utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> > > and on mine:
> > > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pete
> > > Pete Turnbull
> >
> >
>

RE: PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: systems_glitch via cctalk
Sent: 07 December 2018 17:06
To: Jon Elson; CCTalk
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

minicom on Linux/*BSD and OS X, TeraTerm under Windows.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:48 AM Jon Elson via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 12/07/2018 03:59 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the
> reader on an ASR33?
> > I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> > My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.
> >
> > Rod Smallwood
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >
> >
> I use minicom on Linux, but don't know if a Windows version
> is available.  It has allowed me to connect to a bunch of
> older devices and send data back and forth.
>
> Jon
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

These days I just use tip.

Warner

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 10:25 AM systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> > > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK now I need a little help.
> > >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
> > the reader on an ASR33?
> > >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I
> have
> > long forgotten
> > >
> > > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
> > utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> > > and on mine:
> > > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pete
> > > Pete Turnbull
> >
> >
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Indeed, unless you need character pacing.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
> > On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> OK now I need a little help.
> >> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate
> the reader on an ASR33?
> >> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> >
> > For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
> utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> > and on mine:
> > http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> >
> > --
> > Pete
> > Pete Turnbull
>
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

I just use ‘cat’.  Seems to work fine.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 4:57 AM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> OK now I need a little help.
>> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the 
>> reader on an ASR33?
>> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
>> forgotten
> 
> For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other 
> utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
> and on mine:
> http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
> 
> -- 
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

minicom on Linux/*BSD and OS X, TeraTerm under Windows.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:48 AM Jon Elson via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 12/07/2018 03:59 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the
> reader on an ASR33?
> > I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> > My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.
> >
> > Rod Smallwood
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >
> >
> I use minicom on Linux, but don't know if a Windows version
> is available.  It has allowed me to connect to a bunch of
> older devices and send data back and forth.
>
> Jon
>

Re: PDP-8/e

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/07/2018 03:59 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:


Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader 
on an ASR33?
I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
forgotten
My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.

Rod Smallwood



Sent from Mail for Windows 10


I use minicom on Linux, but don't know if a Windows version 
is available.  It has allowed me to connect to a bunch of 
older devices and send data back and forth.


Jon

Re: Sun Monochrome TTL Monitors

[Stefan Skoglund via cctalk]

fre 2018-12-07 klockan 08:07 -0600 skrev Kyle Owen via cctalk:
> Upon closer inspection, it appears as though I have no frame buffer.
> Drats.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ariFxb8xggERExkU9
> 
> Anyone have a spare that would work?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kyle

You have one the ECL one ie (i think) bwtwo.

https://www.sun3arc.org/FEH/CPU/3_60.phtml

RE: PDP-8/e

[mike via cctalk]

What I do for loading paper tape into my PDP8E via the ASR33 is.
1. key in the RIM loader from the front panel 2. Run the RIM to load the a
copy of BIN from the ASR33 paper tape 3. Once the BIN is in core, you can
load any other file or program from the ASR 33 Paper tape.

What tapes do you have?

Mike Zahorik
(414) 254-6768

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian L.
Stuart via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:05 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Rod G8DGR
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

RE: PDP-8/e

[mike via cctalk]

What I do for loading paper tape into my PDP8E via the ASR33 is.
1. key in the RIM loader from the front panel
2. Run the RIM to load the a copy of BIN from the ASR33 paper tape
3. Once the BIN is in core, you can load any other file or program from the
ASR 33 Paper tape.

What tapes do you have?

Mike Zahorik
(414) 254-6768
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian L.
Stuart via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:05 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Rod G8DGR
Subject: Re: PDP-8/e

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

Re: Opening RL02 disk pack

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 11:11 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Quoted from "DISK DRIVE CONTROL: THE EARLY YEARS" (Abramovitch & Franklin)
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3206778_A_brief_history_of_disk_dri
> ve_control 
> 
> "DEC came out with the 125 TPI RL01 disk drive in 1978,which was the first
> mass
> produced full sectored (embedded) servo drive on the market."
> 
> Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way?
> 
> paul

A good way, definitely.  Embedded servo enables the vastly higher densities we 
have today, and also enables the use of all surfaces.  A dedicated servo 
surface is not a major hit on an RP06 that has 10 platters, but on a one or two 
platter pack it's way too much overhead.

paul

RE: Opening RL02 disk pack

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:24 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Opening RL02 disk pack

> From>: Christian Corti

> I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to
invent
> something different...

Huh? I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM
System/3 - I used one of those at my first computer job, they'd just gotten
it in); DEC may have used their own format (and servo track stuff), I don't
know much about the 5440.

Noel


Quoted from "DISK DRIVE CONTROL: THE EARLY YEARS" (Abramovitch & Franklin)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3206778_A_brief_history_of_disk_dri
ve_control 

"DEC came out with the 125 TPI RL01 disk drive in 1978,which was the first
mass
produced full sectored (embedded) servo drive on the market."

Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way?

paul

Re: PDP-8/e

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

Re: Opening RL02 disk pack

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From>: Christian Corti

> I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to invent
> something different...

Huh? I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM
System/3 - I used one of those at my first computer job, they'd just gotten
it in); DEC may have used their own format (and servo track stuff), I don't
know much about the 5440.

Noel

Re: Sun Monochrome TTL Monitors

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Upon closer inspection, it appears as though I have no frame buffer. Drats.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ariFxb8xggERExkU9

Anyone have a spare that would work?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: PDP-8/e

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:


OK now I need a little help.
Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader 
on an ASR33?
I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
forgotten


For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other 
utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:

http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
and on mine:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: PDP-8/e

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

Congrats!!

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:59 AM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> Hi All
>Seasons Greetings..
>
> My PDP-8/e was long due for a major overhaul.
> 1. So everything out
> 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus
> 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
> 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
> 5. Power off
> 6. Install minimal System – Front Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k
> Core and Bus term.
> 7. Yup all looks in right order
> 8. Power on
> 9. Toggle in standard AC count up program
> 10. Clear + Cont
> 11. And they are racing at Rockingham!!
> 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
> 13. Let it run for a while.
> 14. All stop.
> 15. PSU off
> 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud only)
> 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its alive.
> 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
> 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
> 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed back.
>
> OK now I need a little help.
> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the
> reader on an ASR33?
> I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have
> long forgotten
> My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.
>
> Rod Smallwood
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>

PDP-8/e

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Hi All
   Seasons Greetings..

My PDP-8/e was long due for a major overhaul. 
1. So everything out
2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
5. Power off
6. Install minimal System – Front Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core 
and Bus term.
7. Yup all looks in right order
8. Power on
9. Toggle in standard AC count up program
10. Clear + Cont 
11. And they are racing at Rockingham!!
12. Yup counts up just like it should.
13. Let it run for a while.
14. All stop.
15. PSU off
16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud only)
17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its alive.
18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed back.

OK now I need a little help. 
Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader 
on an ASR33?
I know about   RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long 
forgotten
My PDP-8 course completion certificate is dated November 1975.

Rod Smallwood



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: Opening RL02 disk pack

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2018, it was written

I don't know that anyone did that back in the day - the pack cleaners
I'm aware of had arms that wiped the top and bottom surfaces of the
platter while the platter was still mounted inside the shell.  I know


Well I don't have an RL pack cleaner. And in my case it won't suffice, I 
really need to access the top surface. There are some smudges that need 
more thorough cleaning with some pressure that I can't apply with just 
sticking in a swab or something from the side.


OTOH the top loading disk packs for our Nova 3 (6045 drive) can be 
easily dismantled. I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, 
DEC had to invent something different...


Christian