Re: Anyone have any Datapoint software on floppy?
On 8/7/19 11:00 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > I took pics and dumped the firmware from it along with a DP 1551 pcb I've had > for a while, and have been uploading the manuals to bitsavers that came with > it, > as well as a bunch that I've had scanned in the backlog > > I've cleared the scanning backlog of known manuals, and did a bunch of newsletters and brochures that I didn't know we had. http://bitsavers.org/pdf/datapoint
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 15:48, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > I´ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have > suggestions for this type of mini?) You didn't list the cards in the rear I/O cage (the IDs should be on the card ejectors). However, if you have a 12821A HP-IB Disc Interface, you could run the standard HP diagnostics, which are quite thorough. They're available here: http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=567 You'd also need the 12992J CS/80 Disc Loader ROM, if it's not installed (the binary is available at Bitsavers, and the chip is a fairly common 256 x 4-bit bipolar PROM), a $50 GPIB card for a PC, and Ansgar Kueckes' HPDrive program: http://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/ ...which emulates a cartridge tape drive (among other HP mass-storage peripherals). That setup (12821A card/GPIB card/HPDrive program) also opens up the possibility of running some of the HP disc-based operating systems without requiring an HP disc or tape drive. Without removing the CPU, you can't easily tell which loader ROMs are installed in sockets on the PCB (there are up to four, with the first being a paper tape loader), except by loading each one into memory and comparing it to the binary listings in the 12992 manual. Also, you can't easily determine if any optional firmware instruction set PCBs are installed (they mount to the CPU board via standoffs). Removal of the bottom chassis panel is simple, which will reveal the firmware PCBs, but the part numbers are on the underside, i.e., facing the CPU board, typically requiring their removal from the CPU PCB for identification. -- Dave
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Cool! Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk > wrote: > > > Not a single reference, but these two directories should provide most of > what you need: > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/ > > http://hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?hwdoc=108 > > The CE Handbook, Loader ROMS, Interfaces, and Standard Memory manuals will > all be useful. > > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: > >> OK, thanks. >> >> Is there a sheet somewhere that I can use to decode all of these part >> numbers? >> >> TTFN - Guy >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sorry, I mistyped. 12746A is a 64KB (32KW) memory module. >>> >>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: >>> Except that I don?t have a 12745A memory board, I believe it?s a 12746A which I think I saw was a 16K board. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk > wrote: > > > 2102B is the Standard Performance Memory Controller > 12745A is a 64KB (32KW) memory board > 12897B is a DCPC (Dual Channel Port Controller) > 12992B is a 7905/7906/7920/7925 disc loader PROM > 12892B is a Memory Protect board > 12944B is the Power Fail Recovery System > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: > >> Thanks all! >> >> The trick was opening up the front panel (I?m used to keylocks that are >> only electrical and not just physical). >> >> Here?s the HP label with the options: >> CPU 2103 >> MEM BP 1713 >> IO BP 1727 >> Accessories >> 12992B >> 12944B >> 2102B >> 12897B >> 12892B >> 12746A >> >> In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K >> of memory. :-( >> >> I?ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have >> suggestions for this type of mini?) I?ll see if I find more memory and >> suitable peripherals. >> >> Thanks. >> >> TTFN - Guy >> >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), >>> which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say >>> "M-Series" on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later >>> models: >>> >>> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) >>> >>> Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models >>> had it behind the front panel. >>> >>> It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to >>> see a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as >>> the front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the >>> panel and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. >>> That's where the memory boards live. >>> >>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: >>> It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk > wrote: > > Can you provide a picture of the front panel? > 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the > fourteen-slot would be a 2113. > This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . > > From: "cctalk" > To: "cctalk" > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM > Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer > > Hi, > > I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying > to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of > configuration it might have). > > As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that > should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the > part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 > I/O cards (5 are occupied). > > So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do > I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, > etc). > > Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box > to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I > can?t
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Fun! I have 4 HP minis at the moment: 2116C that was running the last time I checked 2 2114B that are in various states of “not working”. Interestingly the most promising one (e.g. the one that hasn’t had various parts clipped or otherwise buggered) is where I can’t get it to power up at all (not even the fan). So I have to go and dig into the power supply a bit more…it could also be that the power cord is wired up incorrectly since it uses an old style hubble twist-lock that I may not have wired up quite right) HP-1000 M Series TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:38 PM, Guy Dunphy wrote: > > Hi Guy, > > If you didn't see this, it may be of interest: > http://everist.org/NobLog/20131112_HP_1000_minicomputer_teardown.htm > > It won't help you identify your system model, but could be of help with > disassembly. > > Funny coincidence that we have the same name, and similar HP-1000 > minicomputers. > > Sigh... 2019 slips by, and I still haven't returned to that project. > > Guy > > > At 02:52 PM 12/08/2019 -0700, you wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that Iâm trying to >> identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of >> configuration it might have). >> >> As far as I can tell, itâs an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should >> hopefully get us *some* details). The âasset tagâ lists the part number >> as 2113023-108. Looking at the back thereâs space for 9 I/O cards (5 are >> occupied). >> >> So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell >> (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). >> >> Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look >> at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I canât tell >> whatâs there and Iâd like to see if thereâs a way to determine what >> this is without resorting to disassembly. >> >> Thanks. >> >> TTFN - Guy
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Not a single reference, but these two directories should provide most of what you need: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/ http://hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?hwdoc=108 The CE Handbook, Loader ROMS, Interfaces, and Standard Memory manuals will all be useful. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: OK, thanks. Is there a sheet somewhere that I can use to decode all of these part numbers? TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: Sorry, I mistyped. 12746A is a 64KB (32KW) memory module. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: Except that I don?t have a 12745A memory board, I believe it?s a 12746A which I think I saw was a 16K board. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: 2102B is the Standard Performance Memory Controller 12745A is a 64KB (32KW) memory board 12897B is a DCPC (Dual Channel Port Controller) 12992B is a 7905/7906/7920/7925 disc loader PROM 12892B is a Memory Protect board 12944B is the Power Fail Recovery System On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: Thanks all! The trick was opening up the front panel (I?m used to keylocks that are only electrical and not just physical). Here?s the HP label with the options: CPU 2103 MEM BP 1713 IO BP 1727 Accessories 12992B 12944B 2102B 12897B 12892B 12746A In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K of memory. :-( I?ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have suggestions for this type of mini?) I?ll see if I find more memory and suitable peripherals. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models had it behind the front panel. It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's where the memory boards live. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: Can you provide a picture of the front panel? 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the fourteen-slot would be a 2113. This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Hi Guy, If you didn't see this, it may be of interest: http://everist.org/NobLog/20131112_HP_1000_minicomputer_teardown.htm It won't help you identify your system model, but could be of help with disassembly. Funny coincidence that we have the same name, and similar HP-1000 minicomputers. Sigh... 2019 slips by, and I still haven't returned to that project. Guy At 02:52 PM 12/08/2019 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that Iâm trying to >identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of >configuration it might have). > >As far as I can tell, itâs an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should >hopefully get us *some* details). The âasset tagâ lists the part number >as 2113023-108. Looking at the back thereâs space for 9 I/O cards (5 are >occupied). > >So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell >(for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). > >Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at >the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I canât tell whatâs >there and Iâd like to see if thereâs a way to determine what this is >without resorting to disassembly. > >Thanks. > >TTFN - Guy
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
OK, thanks. Is there a sheet somewhere that I can use to decode all of these part numbers? TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk > wrote: > > > Sorry, I mistyped. 12746A is a 64KB (32KW) memory module. > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: > >> Except that I don?t have a 12745A memory board, I believe it?s a 12746A >> which I think I saw was a 16K board. >> >> Thanks. >> >> TTFN - Guy >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> 2102B is the Standard Performance Memory Controller >>> 12745A is a 64KB (32KW) memory board >>> 12897B is a DCPC (Dual Channel Port Controller) >>> 12992B is a 7905/7906/7920/7925 disc loader PROM >>> 12892B is a Memory Protect board >>> 12944B is the Power Fail Recovery System >>> >>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: >>> Thanks all! The trick was opening up the front panel (I?m used to keylocks that are only electrical and not just physical). Here?s the HP label with the options: CPU 2103 MEM BP 1713 IO BP 1727 Accessories 12992B 12944B 2102B 12897B 12892B 12746A In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K of memory. :-( I?ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have suggestions for this type of mini?) I?ll see if I find more memory and suitable peripherals. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk > wrote: > > > The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), > which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" > on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: > > http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) > > Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models > had it behind the front panel. > > It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see > a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the > front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel > and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's > where the memory boards live. > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > >> It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. >> From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of >> the other HP-1000 series. >> >> What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is >> without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can >> actually examine the boards. >> >> Thanks. >> >> TTFN - Guy >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> Can you provide a picture of the front panel? >>> 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the >>> fourteen-slot would be a 2113. >>> This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . >>> >>> From: "cctalk" >>> To: "cctalk" >>> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM >>> Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying >>> to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of >>> configuration it might have). >>> >>> As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that >>> should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part >>> number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O >>> cards (5 are occupied). >>> >>> So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I >>> tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, >>> etc). >>> >>> Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to >>> look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t >>> tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine >>> what this is without resorting to disassembly. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> TTFN - Guy >> >> > > Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ >>> >>> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us >>> Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ >> >> > > Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Sorry, I mistyped. 12746A is a 64KB (32KW) memory module. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: Except that I don?t have a 12745A memory board, I believe it?s a 12746A which I think I saw was a 16K board. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: 2102B is the Standard Performance Memory Controller 12745A is a 64KB (32KW) memory board 12897B is a DCPC (Dual Channel Port Controller) 12992B is a 7905/7906/7920/7925 disc loader PROM 12892B is a Memory Protect board 12944B is the Power Fail Recovery System On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: Thanks all! The trick was opening up the front panel (I?m used to keylocks that are only electrical and not just physical). Here?s the HP label with the options: CPU 2103 MEM BP 1713 IO BP 1727 Accessories 12992B 12944B 2102B 12897B 12892B 12746A In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K of memory. :-( I?ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have suggestions for this type of mini?) I?ll see if I find more memory and suitable peripherals. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models had it behind the front panel. It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's where the memory boards live. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: Can you provide a picture of the front panel? 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the fourteen-slot would be a 2113. This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: DEC VT20 boot device
> I didn't fully disassamble the program I have now done so; the -YK is _exactly_ the same as the -YA (the later ones, which are minorly different from what's in the manual), except that the HSR address (177550) has been replaced as the primary device address by that of DL11 #1, in the second block of DL11 addresses (175610). In other words, the ROM is prepared to load something in bootstrap loader format (which I have documented here: http://gunkies.org/wiki/PDP-11_Bootstrap_Loader the one program known in this format is the absolute loader) over the non-console serial line. Noel
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Except that I don’t have a 12745A memory board, I believe it’s a 12746A which I think I saw was a 16K board. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:07 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk > wrote: > > > 2102B is the Standard Performance Memory Controller > 12745A is a 64KB (32KW) memory board > 12897B is a DCPC (Dual Channel Port Controller) > 12992B is a 7905/7906/7920/7925 disc loader PROM > 12892B is a Memory Protect board > 12944B is the Power Fail Recovery System > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: > >> Thanks all! >> >> The trick was opening up the front panel (I?m used to keylocks that are only >> electrical and not just physical). >> >> Here?s the HP label with the options: >> CPU 2103 >> MEM BP 1713 >> IO BP 1727 >> Accessories >> 12992B >> 12944B >> 2102B >> 12897B >> 12892B >> 12746A >> >> In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K of >> memory. :-( >> >> I?ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have suggestions >> for this type of mini?) I?ll see if I find more memory and suitable >> peripherals. >> >> Thanks. >> >> TTFN - Guy >> >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), >>> which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" >>> on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: >>> >>> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) >>> >>> Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models >>> had it behind the front panel. >>> >>> It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see >>> a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the >>> front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel >>> and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's where >>> the memory boards live. >>> >>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: >>> It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk > wrote: > > Can you provide a picture of the front panel? > 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the > fourteen-slot would be a 2113. > This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . > > From: "cctalk" > To: "cctalk" > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM > Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer > > Hi, > > I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to > identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of > configuration it might have). > > As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should > hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number > as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are > occupied). > > So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I > tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). > > Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to > look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t > tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what > this is without resorting to disassembly. > > Thanks. > > TTFN - Guy >>> >>> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us >>> Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ >> >> > > Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
2102B is the Standard Performance Memory Controller 12745A is a 64KB (32KW) memory board 12897B is a DCPC (Dual Channel Port Controller) 12992B is a 7905/7906/7920/7925 disc loader PROM 12892B is a Memory Protect board 12944B is the Power Fail Recovery System On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote: Thanks all! The trick was opening up the front panel (I?m used to keylocks that are only electrical and not just physical). Here?s the HP label with the options: CPU 2103 MEM BP 1713 IO BP 1727 Accessories 12992B 12944B 2102B 12897B 12892B 12746A In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K of memory. :-( I?ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have suggestions for this type of mini?) I?ll see if I find more memory and suitable peripherals. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models had it behind the front panel. It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's where the memory boards live. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: Can you provide a picture of the front panel? 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the fourteen-slot would be a 2113. This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Thanks all! The trick was opening up the front panel (I’m used to keylocks that are only electrical and not just physical). Here’s the HP label with the options: CPU 2103 MEM BP 1713 IO BP 1727 Accessories 12992B 12944B 2102B 12897B 12892B 12746A In opening the panel on the front card cage, I saw that it only had 16K of memory. :-( I’ll see about firing it up and if that goes well (anyone have suggestions for this type of mini?) I’ll see if I find more memory and suitable peripherals. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:29 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk > wrote: > > > The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), which > sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" on the > front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: > > http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) > > Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models had > it behind the front panel. > > It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see a > closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the front > card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel and > removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's where the > memory boards live. > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: > >> It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From >> what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other >> HP-1000 series. >> >> What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is >> without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can >> actually examine the boards. >> >> Thanks. >> >> TTFN - Guy >> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> Can you provide a picture of the front panel? >>> 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the >>> fourteen-slot would be a 2113. >>> This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . >>> >>> From: "cctalk" >>> To: "cctalk" >>> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM >>> Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to >>> identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of >>> configuration it might have). >>> >>> As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should >>> hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number as >>> 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are >>> occupied). >>> >>> So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell >>> (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). >>> >>> Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look >>> at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t tell >>> what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what this is >>> without resorting to disassembly. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> TTFN - Guy >> >> > > Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us > Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
behind front panel is memory. Ed# ps back is io In a message dated 8/12/2019 3:21:20 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: Perhaps these will help? https://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?hwimg=108 http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/hewlett-packard/hp-21mx From: "Guy Sotomayor Jr" To: "myself" , "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 3:04:31 PM Subject: Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer It’s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I’m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk > wrote: > > Can you provide a picture of the front panel? > 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the > fourteen-slot would be a 2113. > This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . > > From: "cctalk" > To: "cctalk" > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM > Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer > > Hi, > > I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to > identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of > configuration it might have). > > As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should > hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset tag” lists the part number as > 2113023-108. Looking at the back there’s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are > occupied). > > So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell > (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). > > Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look > at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can’t tell what’s > there and I’d like to see if there’s a way to determine what this is without > resorting to disassembly. > > Thanks. > > TTFN - Guy
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
The original M-Series machines were the 2105A and the 2108A (9-slot), which sound like what you have. The early machines didn't say "M-Series" on the front panel, and had a different lock than the later models: http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg (my model 2108A) Early models had the power switch on the back panel, while later models had it behind the front panel. It sounds like you might have a later model M. It would be helpful to see a closeup of the read card cage (with readable labels), as well as the front card cage. The front card cage is accessed by unlocking the panel and removing the cover on the right side over the card cage. That's where the memory boards live. On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote: It?s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I?m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: Can you provide a picture of the front panel? 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the fourteen-slot would be a 2113. This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Perhaps these will help? https://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?hwimg=108 http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/hewlett-packard/hp-21mx From: "Guy Sotomayor Jr" To: "myself" , "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 3:04:31 PM Subject: Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer It’s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I’m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk > wrote: > > Can you provide a picture of the front panel? > 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the > fourteen-slot would be a 2113. > This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . > > From: "cctalk" > To: "cctalk" > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM > Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer > > Hi, > > I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to > identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of > configuration it might have). > > As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should > hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset tag” lists the part number as > 2113023-108. Looking at the back there’s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are > occupied). > > So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell > (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). > > Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look > at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can’t tell what’s > there and I’d like to see if there’s a way to determine what this is without > resorting to disassembly. > > Thanks. > > TTFN - Guy
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
On 8/12/19 12:31 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: > It was an uncommon option for lower end Cyber 180s. > Don't know the date of the unit shown, but in the early-mid 1970s, we used acres of 844-21(IIRC ~100MB) and 844-41 drives (IIRC ~200MB). Don't know what the OEM model would have been. And Cyber 180 is outside of my timeframe. ..and they were damned twitchy if you were unfortunate enough to mount a damaged pack. --Chuck
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
It’s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other HP-1000 series. What I’m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine the boards. Thanks. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk > wrote: > > Can you provide a picture of the front panel? > 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the > fourteen-slot would be a 2113. > This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . > > From: "cctalk" > To: "cctalk" > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM > Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer > > Hi, > > I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to > identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of > configuration it might have). > > As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should > hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset tag” lists the part number as > 2113023-108. Looking at the back there’s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are > occupied). > > So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell > (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). > > Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look > at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can’t tell what’s > there and I’d like to see if there’s a way to determine what this is without > resorting to disassembly. > > Thanks. > > TTFN - Guy
Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer
Can you provide a picture of the front panel? 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the fourteen-slot would be a 2113. This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset tag” lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there’s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can’t tell what’s there and I’d like to see if there’s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy
Identification of an HP minicomputer
Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset tag” lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there’s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can’t tell what’s there and I’d like to see if there’s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
Being SMD, they could be connected to a number of things. PDP-11s, as mentioned, as well as basically anything that talked SMD. Mine were hooked up to Data General and Computer Automation gear. Thanks, Jonathan On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 4:55 PM Dave Wade via cctalk wrote: > Pierre, > I would suggest that as you haven't seen one in ages, the price reflects > the rarity and the vendor is hoping for a rich collector to buy it. > > I don't know off hand of anyone who uses one. I know that the 4341 at LCM > uses emulated DASD as does the ICL 2900 at TNMOC in the UK which I think > has some EDS300 drives > > https://farm9.static.flickr.com/8314/7939054098_08c37818fe_b.jpg > > which look almost identical to the CDC drive on E-Bay, there are a few > more pics here > > https://hiveminer.com/Tags/bletchleypark%2Cicl > > There are people using smaller exchangeable drives such as DEC RL01 and > RL02 drives, and the similar drives on the IBM1130 and IBM1800 but those > are a totally different ball game... > > Dave > > > -Original Message- > > From: cctalk On Behalf Of P Gebhardt via > > cctalk > > Sent: 12 August 2019 18:42 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > Subject: Control Data 9766 drive on epay > > > > Hi list, > > > > Just came across this: > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals- > > Control-Data-9766-Storage- > > Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u > > > > Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this > offer > > addresses customers that may use these drives in a production > environment or > > so... > > I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in > a > > functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB > > (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration > the > > CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) > software > > archive project. > > Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. > > > > Best regards, > > Pierre > > > > > - > > http://www.digitalheritage.de > >
RE: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
Pierre, I would suggest that as you haven't seen one in ages, the price reflects the rarity and the vendor is hoping for a rich collector to buy it. I don't know off hand of anyone who uses one. I know that the 4341 at LCM uses emulated DASD as does the ICL 2900 at TNMOC in the UK which I think has some EDS300 drives https://farm9.static.flickr.com/8314/7939054098_08c37818fe_b.jpg which look almost identical to the CDC drive on E-Bay, there are a few more pics here https://hiveminer.com/Tags/bletchleypark%2Cicl There are people using smaller exchangeable drives such as DEC RL01 and RL02 drives, and the similar drives on the IBM1130 and IBM1800 but those are a totally different ball game... Dave > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of P Gebhardt via > cctalk > Sent: 12 August 2019 18:42 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Control Data 9766 drive on epay > > Hi list, > > Just came across this: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals- > Control-Data-9766-Storage- > Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u > > Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer > addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment or > so... > I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a > functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB > (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the > CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) software > archive project. > Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. > > Best regards, > Pierre > > - > http://www.digitalheritage.de
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
It was an uncommon option for lower end Cyber 180s. -- Will On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 2:40 PM Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > Would this have been connected to a CDC Cyber back in the day? I noticed > that this is in Athens, GA, home of University of Georgia. The first > programs that I ever wrote were on a CDC Cyber there (via a 300-baud > acoustic coupler modem at Valdosta State College). > > alan > > On 8/12/19 11:09 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: > > There is a Make Offer option, and it does look like the seller does > > take offers fairly regularly. I will not be buying it. > > > > If someone does, I have a huge amount of spares for 976x drives, > > including refurbished heads. It might take a while to find them in my > > mess, however. > > > > -- > > Will > > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:43 PM P Gebhardt via cctalk > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi list, > >> > >> Just came across this: > >> > >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control-Data-9766-Storage-Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u > >> > >> Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer > >> addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment > >> or so... > >> I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a > >> functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB > >> (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration > >> the CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) > >> software archive project. > >> Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Pierre > >> > >> - > >> http://www.digitalheritage.de
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 2:40 PM Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > Would this have been connected to a CDC Cyber back in the day? I noticed > that this is in Athens, GA, home of University of Georgia. The first > programs that I ever wrote were on a CDC Cyber there (via a 300-baud > acoustic coupler modem at Valdosta State College). I am not a CDC CPU expert but I know that various CDC SMD drives, especially the 9762 and 9766 were found on PDP-11s and VAXen owing to inexpensive (compared to DEC) 3rd Party disk controllers (and drivers for various operating systems). The drive mechs were also repackaged and put behind modified SMD-Massbus interfaces and were available from DEC as the RM02/RM03 (9762) and RM05 (9766) but they were DEC badged not CDC badged (colors, labels, etc) so you wouldn't mistake one from the other externally. I happen to have a 9766 (and at least one SMD interface for either Unibus or Qbus) but no pack. -ethan
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: LCM was working on an alternative approach to multi-platter media recovery but I've not heard anything more about that in a while When I was there for VCFPNW, I saw the rig they'd built for that. At the time they were perfecting getting photos of the surface taken and were looking into writing software that would convert the images to a data stream. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
Would this have been connected to a CDC Cyber back in the day? I noticed that this is in Athens, GA, home of University of Georgia. The first programs that I ever wrote were on a CDC Cyber there (via a 300-baud acoustic coupler modem at Valdosta State College). alan On 8/12/19 11:09 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: There is a Make Offer option, and it does look like the seller does take offers fairly regularly. I will not be buying it. If someone does, I have a huge amount of spares for 976x drives, including refurbished heads. It might take a while to find them in my mess, however. -- Will On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:43 PM P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote: Hi list, Just came across this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control-Data-9766-Storage-Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment or so... I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) software archive project. Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. Best regards, Pierre - http://www.digitalheritage.de
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
Well, crap. I got rid of my 2 9766’s and all the packs that I had for them a couple of years ago for nothing what this guy is asking for his. ;-) I probably still have a pile of heads for them (but they’d probably go to the guy who purchased the drives/packs from me). What are folks using these types of drivers for? Media content recovery or just using them as intended? TTFN - Guy > On Aug 12, 2019, at 11:09 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk > wrote: > > There is a Make Offer option, and it does look like the seller does > take offers fairly regularly. I will not be buying it. > > If someone does, I have a huge amount of spares for 976x drives, > including refurbished heads. It might take a while to find them in my > mess, however. > > -- > Will > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:43 PM P Gebhardt via cctalk > wrote: >> >> Hi list, >> >> Just came across this: >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control-Data-9766-Storage-Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u >> >> Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer >> addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment or >> so... >> I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a >> functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB (CDC >> 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the CHM >> activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) software >> archive project. >> Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. >> >> Best regards, >> Pierre >> >> - >> http://www.digitalheritage.de
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
Interesting, I've just picked up two 9766s and two OEMed CDC pack drives (unsure of model # yet). I might be bugging you about spares :P Thanks, Jonathan On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 2:09 PM William Donzelli via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > There is a Make Offer option, and it does look like the seller does > take offers fairly regularly. I will not be buying it. > > If someone does, I have a huge amount of spares for 976x drives, > including refurbished heads. It might take a while to find them in my > mess, however. > > -- > Will > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:43 PM P Gebhardt via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Hi list, > > > > Just came across this: > > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control-Data-9766-Storage-Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u > > > > Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this > offer addresses customers that may use these drives in a production > environment or so... > > I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in > a functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB > (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the > CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) > software archive project. > > Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. > > > > Best regards, > > Pierre > > > > > - > > http://www.digitalheritage.de >
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
There is a Make Offer option, and it does look like the seller does take offers fairly regularly. I will not be buying it. If someone does, I have a huge amount of spares for 976x drives, including refurbished heads. It might take a while to find them in my mess, however. -- Will On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:43 PM P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote: > > Hi list, > > Just came across this: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control-Data-9766-Storage-Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u > > Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer > addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment or > so... > I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a > functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB (CDC > 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the CHM > activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) software > archive project. > Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. > > Best regards, > Pierre > > - > http://www.digitalheritage.de
Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay
On 8/12/19 10:41 AM, P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote: > I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a > functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB (CDC > 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? We don't have one in working condition, and we're unlikely to attempt any work on multi-platter media recovery any time soon. I have three Pertec top-loading drives and several Diablo 30s, but haven't had time to try flux-level recovery on several dozen high archival value targets, including what may be the only surviving Burroughs B1700 packs. LCM was working on an alternative approach to multi-platter media recovery but I've not heard anything more about that in a while
Control Data 9766 drive on epay
Hi list, Just came across this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control-Data-9766-Storage-Module/143351908424?hash=item2160708848:g:3yEAAOSw1oJdTo9u Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment or so... I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge (2315-equivalent) software archive project. Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. Best regards, Pierre - http://www.digitalheritage.de
Searching for manuals...
I'm looking for a full set of manuals for the Microsoft Professional Development System v7.1. If anyone here has them to loan for scanning or to sell, please contact me directly. Thanks! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On 8/11/19 8:51 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: > > The TC02 is an Emulex TS11 emulation for pertec interface tape drives. > The J1 and J2 are sort of standard terminology, don't know why. Ah, the *Emulex* TC02. You had me going there--DEC also has a DECtape controller called the TC02. Looking at the TC02, there are 374s to latch data coming from the Qualstar and use the termination packs, but there are also 7438s driving the lines from the TC02 to the Qualstar. Those have no terminators. The TC02 reference manual says that you get run lines up to 30 feet long between the TC02 and formatter. My point is that the driver technology for the Qualstar (i.e. read data and status) is inappropriate for long cable runs. The spec calls for 48 ma OC drivers. --Chuck
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On 8/11/19 9:11 AM, W2HX via cctech wrote: >> All of my Pertec tape drives (in the past) were located in > a differentrack from the actual computer so the cables were > always over 10' long and usually close to if not 20'. Never > had a problem. I stand by my commentary re Qualstar 1xxx drives. They're not up to the task of driving long cables. Who has one such drive with 10' cables operating correctly? Until someone comes up with actual experience with said drives, we're just guessing. I note that my 1260S does have the capability to be used as a Pertec interface drive. I suppose I could re-cable from one of my other drives and test it, but at this stage, I hardly see the point. --Chuck
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On 8/11/19 6:00 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: > I just looked at the TC02 and the Qualstar, there are termination > resistor packs on each. The Qualstar has a bunch of 74LS240 IC's near > the J1 and J2 pertec interface cables. The TC02 has a bunch of 74LS374 > chips near the J1 and J2 connectors. > > This is where the electrical engineer could help. How do you determine > how long a cable the 74LS240 can drive? TC02? The DECtape controller? Sorry, I must be dense; I'm not following. --Chuck
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On 8/11/2019 10:44 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: On 8/11/19 6:00 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: I just looked at the TC02 and the Qualstar, there are termination resistor packs on each. The Qualstar has a bunch of 74LS240 IC's near the J1 and J2 pertec interface cables. The TC02 has a bunch of 74LS374 chips near the J1 and J2 connectors. This is where the electrical engineer could help. How do you determine how long a cable the 74LS240 can drive? TC02? The DECtape controller? Sorry, I must be dense; I'm not following. --Chuck The TC02 is an Emulex TS11 emulation for pertec interface tape drives. The J1 and J2 are sort of standard terminology, don't know why.
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 7:44 PM Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: > > On 8/11/19 6:00 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: > > > I just looked at the TC02 and the Qualstar, there are termination > > resistor packs on each. The Qualstar has a bunch of 74LS240 IC's near > > the J1 and J2 pertec interface cables. The TC02 has a bunch of 74LS374 > > chips near the J1 and J2 connectors. > > > > This is where the electrical engineer could help. How do you determine > > how long a cable the 74LS240 can drive? > > TC02? The DECtape controller? > I assume TC02 here refers to an Emulex TC02, a Q-Bus Pertec interface tape controller which emulates a TS11 tape controller. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/TC0251002-G_TC02tech_Jul85.pdf
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On 8/11/2019 7:01 PM, Jon Elson via cctech wrote: On 08/11/2019 11:11 AM, W2HX via cctech wrote: I seem to remember they were ribbon cables with each odd/even pair twisted which probably meant one active and one ground twisted together. Or differential pairs. No, both Pertec unformatted and Pertec formatted interfaces were TTL single-ended. Jon I just looked at the TC02 and the Qualstar, there are termination resistor packs on each. The Qualstar has a bunch of 74LS240 IC's near the J1 and J2 pertec interface cables. The TC02 has a bunch of 74LS374 chips near the J1 and J2 connectors. This is where the electrical engineer could help. How do you determine how long a cable the 74LS240 can drive? Doug
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
On 08/11/2019 11:11 AM, W2HX via cctech wrote: I seem to remember they were ribbon cables with each odd/even pair twisted which probably meant one active and one ground twisted together. Or differential pairs. No, both Pertec unformatted and Pertec formatted interfaces were TTL single-ended. Jon
Re: Removing PVA (Was: ADM-3A question)
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 11:29 AM Alan Perry via cctech wrote: > > > On 8/11/19 6:58 AM, Charles via cctech wrote: > > Anyway. I did a bit more Googling and discovered that plain water > > dissolves the PVA goop just fine. No need to use a lot of expensive > > alcohol which seems to be a less effective solvent anyway! > > Last Christmas, I removed the old PVA from a DEC VR201 for a Rainbow > 100. On the advice of a website that I found, I bought butyl acetate and > a long needle syringe for injecting it deep into the PVA. > > However, after I removed the seal around the glass/tube, the glass > practically fell off and most of the PVA came off in a sheet. I had some > electronics grade isopropyl alcohol around anyway and I used that to do > a final clean of everything before reassembly and reseal. > What did you replace the PVA with? Warner So, if anyone in the Seattle area needs a bottle of butyl acetate ... > > alan >
Re: Removing PVA (Was: ADM-3A question)
On 8/11/19 2:21 PM, Warner Losh wrote: On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 11:29 AM Alan Perry via cctech mailto:cct...@classiccmp.org>> wrote: On 8/11/19 6:58 AM, Charles via cctech wrote: > Anyway. I did a bit more Googling and discovered that plain water > dissolves the PVA goop just fine. No need to use a lot of expensive > alcohol which seems to be a less effective solvent anyway! Last Christmas, I removed the old PVA from a DEC VR201 for a Rainbow 100. On the advice of a website that I found, I bought butyl acetate and a long needle syringe for injecting it deep into the PVA. However, after I removed the seal around the glass/tube, the glass practically fell off and most of the PVA came off in a sheet. I had some electronics grade isopropyl alcohol around anyway and I used that to do a final clean of everything before reassembly and reseal. What did you replace the PVA with? Nothing. Air. I think it was here that someone told me that a small CRT like the VR201 doesn't need PVA filling the gap for implosion protection. alan Warner So, if anyone in the Seattle area needs a bottle of butyl acetate ... alan
Removing PVA (Was: ADM-3A question)
On 8/11/19 6:58 AM, Charles via cctech wrote: Anyway. I did a bit more Googling and discovered that plain water dissolves the PVA goop just fine. No need to use a lot of expensive alcohol which seems to be a less effective solvent anyway! Last Christmas, I removed the old PVA from a DEC VR201 for a Rainbow 100. On the advice of a website that I found, I bought butyl acetate and a long needle syringe for injecting it deep into the PVA. However, after I removed the seal around the glass/tube, the glass practically fell off and most of the PVA came off in a sheet. I had some electronics grade isopropyl alcohol around anyway and I used that to do a final clean of everything before reassembly and reseal. So, if anyone in the Seattle area needs a bottle of butyl acetate ... alan
Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length
>All of my Pertec tape drives (in the past) were located in a differentrack from the actual computer so the cables were always over 10' long and usually close to if not 20'. Never had a problem. That is because a) you had the proper termination in place and b) the signalling speed of the interface was slow enough to cope (you were probably within spec). > I seem to remember they were ribbon cables with each odd/even pair twisted which probably meant one active and one ground twisted together. Or differential pairs. 73 Eugene W2HX From: cctech on behalf of Bill Gunshannon via cctech Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:59 AM To: cct...@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length On 8/11/19 9:07 AM, W2HX via cctech wrote: >> Would folding the > excess cable up and covering with anti-static plastic help? > > unlikely. The typical problem is that the longer the cable, the higher the > capacitance of the transmission line. Therefore you get a lot of problems > with rising and trailing edges of the signals which can cause all kinds of > problems if not terminated correctly. I agree with the previous suggestion > to make sure all termination is in place. If you can also place a scope on > one of the lines (with high impedance probe) you can see what the edges look > like. All of my Pertec tape drives (in the past) were located in a differentrack from the actual computer so the cables were always over 10' long and usually close to if not 20'. Never had a problem. I seem to remember they were ribbon cables with each odd/even pair twisted which probably meant one active and one ground twisted together. > > From: cctech on behalf of Douglas Taylor via > cctech > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2019 12:33 AM > To: Jon Elson; On-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Pertec Interface Cable Length > > On 8/10/2019 1:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >> On 08/09/2019 11:05 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: >>> I have a question about cable length - any electrical engineers in >>> the house? >>> >>> Connected a Qualstar 1260 tape drive to an Emulex TC02 qbus tape >>> controller in a pdp-11/53. The interface is pertec with 2 50 pin >>> cables. >>> >>> When I use a pair of short flat ribbon cables, 18 and 30 inches each, >>> it works. Under RT11 I can INIT, Copy, DUMP, do a Directory. >>> >>> It doesn't work when I use a pair of 5 foot long flat ribbon cables. >>> Are they too long? Do I need twisted pair type of cable? Is it >>> possibly a termination problem? >>> >> I have used cables about 20 feet long without trouble. The 2 50-pin >> cables is the Pertec formatted interface, which is really forgiving. >> Does you drive have terminators in both ends of the cable (both at the >> TC02 end and the drive end)? >> Now, I will mention that I have ONLY used twisted-pair ribbon cables >> with both flavors of interface, never straight ribbon cable. >> >> Jon >> >> > I haven't checked to see if there are terminators (Arnold the > Terminator) on either end. I did check the long cables for continuity > and found no problems. It may be an EMI problem. Would folding the > excess cable up and covering with anti-static plastic help? I don't remember there being any specific termination like you see on things like SCSI disks or RL Disks. But then, it has been a long time since I had my last Pertec Tape Drive. Only 9-track I have today is SCSI. bill ' bill
