Re: tty and video displays

[Gavin Scott via cctalk]

Now I want to know if you have a list of the Burroughs APL
overstrikes, since HP included many more overstrike characters in the
HP 2641A than the ones that they needed for APL\3000, including (or so
I'm lead to believe) all the Burroughs extended I/O quad overstrikes,
presumably to maximize the market for the terminal and/or because they
thought they might implement the same functionality at some point. So
it would be interesting to know what was actually missing.

The overstrike character ROM for the HP 2641A includes 63 characters,
but (IIRC) only something like 21 are used in APL\3000.

P.S. My HP 2641A emulation will be in the next official MAME release
thanks to F.Ulivi who merged it into his existing HP 2645A driver and
got it submitted upstream.

G.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 10:28 PM Stan Sieler via cctalk
 wrote:

> That meant that we couldn't use the terminal at Burroughs, because our APL
> had a few overstrikes that weren't in the table.

Re: tty and video displays

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Paul writes:

>  General overstrike requires a bitmap display, or some sort of persistent
display.

Although he carefully specified 'general overstrike', I'll still mention
how the HP 2641A (an APL terminal) did it.   When about to enter a newly
received character into memory, the terminal checked if a non-blank was
already in that spot ... if yes, it looked up the pair in an internal ROM
table and replaced the existing character code with a new character code
designed for APL\3000 (a code that, when received, would display as the
appropriate overstrike).

That meant that we couldn't use the terminal at Burroughs, because our APL
had a few overstrikes that weren't in the table.

Stan

Re: tty and video displays

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2020-Dec-14, at 7:57 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:
> On 12/14/20 4:41 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
>> It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.
>>  http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html
> 
> Holy cow, I have that keyboard. 
...
> (It's definitely -12V, not -5V? I'm just thinking that the -12V noted on your 
> schematic is quite close the the 15V rating on the cap - although that could 
> explain why my later setup got caps rated to 35V, too)

I don't remember whether I traced it or measured it, but I'm fairy confident, 
Vgg = -12 is pretty common for GI MOS ICs.
I'll try to remember to double-check it when I have the unit opened again.

I have some other orphan keyboard of the period, don't recall which scanner IC 
it uses, but it has the similar +Vcc/-Vgg requirement.
I made up a little negative supply with a 7660 charge pump and tacked it onto 
the keyboard PCB so the keyboard now only needs +5 externally.

Re: misc stuff - free

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 8:20 PM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:

At 10:37 AM 12/14/2020, Don Stalkowski via cctalk wrote:

Softech microsystems UCSD p-System 8" floppy disks:


I would've paid for shipping these, if anyone is visiting to
grab anything.  I'm in Wisconsin.  I'd at least want to know
someone imaged them.



What version of UCSD-Pascal and for what system?

bill

Re: misc stuff - free

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 10:37 AM 12/14/2020, Don Stalkowski via cctalk wrote:
>Softech microsystems UCSD p-System 8" floppy disks:

I would've paid for shipping these, if anyone is visiting to 
grab anything.  I'm in Wisconsin.  I'd at least want to know
someone imaged them.

- John

Re: misc stuff - free

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 22:52, Don Stalkowski via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I'm listing this stuff just in case someone is desperate for
> any of it.

Would you like me to post these lists on the Facebook vintage-computer
collectors' groups for you, Don?

I can suitably anonymise your email, if you prefer, and broker comms
for you... No charge, of course! :-D

-- 
Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: misc stuff - free cancel semcc hold on modem and apple mouse as we can not pick p sorry was so happy over shot the line on pickup only... thanks Ed#

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 2:03 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:

Re: misc stuff - free cancel semcc hold on modem and apple mouse as we can not 
pick p sorry was so happy over shot the line on pickup only... thanks Ed# In a 
message dated 12/14/2020 2:52:00 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
I'm listing this stuff just in case someone is desperate forany of it. All items are 
as-is and free. Pickup only here in London, ON.I'm too old and too tired to run 
around shipping things. I'll hold on to this stuff for a couple of weeks; after that 
it'sthe recycling bin. Softech microsystems UCSD p-System 8" floppy 
disks:CPM40D CPMDISK (BOOTER)UG84AT.C UPGRADE IV.03 Jun 16 1982N8P4AT 8080 NATIVE 
CODE GENERATOR Jun 16 1982LXP4BT UCSD Pascal Compiler Jan 1983LXP4AT.B UCSD Pascal 
Compiler Jun 16 1982UGC4AT.A UPGRADE Jun 16 1982OII40D ADAP ORIENTER Jan 5 
1983IZP4BT.B Interpreter Jan 26 1983CZP4BT.B CPM ADAPTABLE Jan 26 1983SAP4BT.A 
SYSTEM Jan 26 1983CPM4BD CPM READABLE Jan 26 1983N8P4BT 8086 Native Code Genator 
(sic) Jan 26 1983 Hayes V-series Smartmodem 9600 (in box)XT parallel port card Apple 
mouse A2M4015 2 x Tandem binders1 x GA binder General Automation GA-16/220/330 
microconsole and system console reference cardRaytheon PTS-100 reference 
cardInterdata model 70 and 80 programmer's guide reference card (1971) 
Databooks:M6800 Microcomputer Family - a 79 page Motorola pamphlet containing specs 
etc.AMD Am29800 Family High Performance Bus Interface 1981AMD MOS/LSI Data Book 
1976Synertek 1979 Data CatalogMicroprocessor Data Package - International 
Electronics Unlimited bookleton IMP MM5750, MM5751 CPU set Data Sheets:CR-112 4K MOS 
RAMs from Texas Instruments - reliability report for TMS 4030, 4050, 4060IMS2620 
High Performance 16Kx4 Dynanic RAM - inmos #110 May 1983IMS2630 High Performance 
8Kx4 Dynanic RAM - inmos #111 November 1983IMS2600 High Performance 64Kx1 Dynanic 
RAM - inmos #101 November 1983GTE 8104/8114 Static RAMs 1024x8 N-MOS April 1980Texas 
Instruments MOS/LSI Memory and Microprocessor Products June 1976 Books:The SNOBOL4 
Programming Language - Griswold et al Manuals:Courier 270 Information Display System 
Operator's Manual pub # 30-0002-00-00 Jun 1975ICC 40+ Data Display System 
Installation and Operation GA 16/220 prints - this is a very complete set:CUP NO. I, 
CPU NO. II, SYS. CNSL. INTF. W/IPL, 8K RAM, MEMORY SERVICE MODULE, TTY/with 
PS,RS-232/TTY, COMPACT MIB, COMPACT PS



STOP POSTING THIS S*IT TO THE LIST

Re: misc stuff - free cancel semcc hold on modem and apple mouse as we can not pick p sorry was so happy over shot the line on pickup only... thanks Ed#

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

Re: misc stuff - free cancel semcc hold on modem and apple mouse as we can not 
pick p sorry was so happy over shot the line on pickup only... thanks Ed# In a 
message dated 12/14/2020 2:52:00 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: 
I'm listing this stuff just in case someone is desperate forany of it. All 
items are as-is and free. Pickup only here in London, ON.I'm too old and too 
tired to run around shipping things. I'll hold on to this stuff for a couple of 
weeks; after that it'sthe recycling bin. Softech microsystems UCSD p-System 8" 
floppy disks:CPM40D CPMDISK (BOOTER)UG84AT.C UPGRADE IV.03 Jun 16 1982N8P4AT 
8080 NATIVE CODE GENERATOR Jun 16 1982LXP4BT UCSD Pascal Compiler Jan 
1983LXP4AT.B UCSD Pascal Compiler Jun 16 1982UGC4AT.A UPGRADE Jun 16 1982OII40D 
ADAP ORIENTER Jan 5 1983IZP4BT.B Interpreter Jan 26 1983CZP4BT.B CPM ADAPTABLE 
Jan 26 1983SAP4BT.A SYSTEM Jan 26 1983CPM4BD CPM READABLE Jan 26 1983N8P4BT 
8086 Native Code Genator (sic) Jan 26 1983 Hayes V-series Smartmodem 9600 (in 
box)XT parallel port card Apple mouse A2M4015 2 x Tandem binders1 x GA binder 
General Automation GA-16/220/330 microconsole and system console reference 
cardRaytheon PTS-100 reference cardInterdata model 70 and 80 programmer's guide 
reference card (1971) Databooks:M6800 Microcomputer Family - a 79 page Motorola 
pamphlet containing specs etc.AMD Am29800 Family High Performance Bus Interface 
1981AMD MOS/LSI Data Book 1976Synertek 1979 Data CatalogMicroprocessor Data 
Package - International Electronics Unlimited bookleton IMP MM5750, MM5751 CPU 
set Data Sheets:CR-112 4K MOS RAMs from Texas Instruments - reliability report 
for TMS 4030, 4050, 4060IMS2620 High Performance 16Kx4 Dynanic RAM - inmos #110 
May 1983IMS2630 High Performance 8Kx4 Dynanic RAM - inmos #111 November 
1983IMS2600 High Performance 64Kx1 Dynanic RAM - inmos #101 November 1983GTE 
8104/8114 Static RAMs 1024x8 N-MOS April 1980Texas Instruments MOS/LSI Memory 
and Microprocessor Products June 1976 Books:The SNOBOL4 Programming Language - 
Griswold et al Manuals:Courier 270 Information Display System Operator's Manual 
pub # 30-0002-00-00 Jun 1975ICC 40+ Data Display System Installation and 
Operation GA 16/220 prints - this is a very complete set:CUP NO. I, CPU NO. II, 
SYS. CNSL. INTF. W/IPL, 8K RAM, MEMORY SERVICE MODULE, TTY/with PS,RS-232/TTY, 
COMPACT MIB, COMPACT PS

Apple Investment

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

Apple went public Dec. 12, 1980 at $22.00/share over 40 years ago. Where
has the time gone! A $1000 investment would be ~45 shares. Today that would
be 5040 shares after 5 splits. Its price today is $121/share. That would be
$609,840. Here in Canada that’s $939,153! Quite the nest egg. It has
certainly paid quite handsomely to have invested in Classic Computers or in
one company back then.


Happy computing. Stay safe.

Murray 


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: misc stuff - free thanks...Apple mouse A2M4015 Ed sharpe says SMECC Museum can use this

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 1:59 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:

  Apple mouse A2M4015   Ed sharpe  says  SMECC Museum can use  this


Figure out how to send private emails, Ed

Re: misc stuff - free thanks...Apple mouse A2M4015 Ed sharpe says SMECC Museum can use this

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

 Apple mouse A2M4015   Ed sharpe  says  SMECC Museum can use  this  In a 
message dated 12/14/2020 2:52:00 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: 
Apple mouse A2M4015  Apple mouse A2M4015  

Re: misc stuff - free ed sharpe says Please - -museum can use this if extermal modem Hayes V-series SmartmodeHayes V-series Smartmodem 9600m 9600

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

 Re: misc stuff - free ed sharpe says Please - -museum can use this if external 
modem Hayes V-series SmartmodeHayes V-series Smartmodem 9600m  9600  Hayes 
V-series Smartmodem 9600   In a message dated 12/14/2020 2:52:00 PM US Mountain 
Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: 
Hayes V-series Smartmodem 9600

DEC stuff - free

[Don Stalkowski via cctalk]

I'm listing this stuff just in case someone is desperate for
any of it.

All items are as-is and free. Pickup only here in London, ON.
I'm too old and too tired to run around shipping things.

I'll hold on to this stuff for a couple of weeks; after that it's
the recycling bin.

Hardware:
12 x M594
2 x M971
M970
R002
BC08R-01
H8611
VT-52 coils (flyback, etc)
VT-100 current loop interface card

VAX PASCAL manuals:
AA-D030A-TE VAX/VMS Primer (VMS V01)
SPD 25.11.4 VAX-11 PASCAL 1.1
AA-H484A-TE VAX-11 PASCAL Language Reference Manual
AA-H485A-TE VAX-11 PASCAL User's Guide
AA-J181A-TE VAX-11 PASCAL Installation GUide/Release Notes
AA-J180A-TE VAX-11 PASCAL Primer
3" DEC binder for the PASCAL manuals

single package of prints:
PC11 M7810-C-1 "11/25/74"
Asynchronous Line Interface M7800-0-1 "75"
DL11-0-2 Installation Procedure "4-75"
LP11 Interface M7930-0-1
RK05-0-2 "72"
RK11-D-1 "73"

individual prints:
DUV11-DA-1 Field Maintenance Print Set "12-13-76"
PC11-0 engineering drawings  "70"
H720-E

Fiche:
2 x DECUS PDP-11 Catalog 1977
DECUS PDP-11 Catalog 1978

Logic Handbook 1970
Logic Handbook 1973-74
Control handbook 1969

Manuals:
VT100 User Guide EK-VT100-UG-002
VT52 DECscope Maintenance Manual EK-VT52-MM-001 (1976)
RTM Register Transfer Modules (1973)

Media:
EC-N4783-48 ManageWORKS Workgroup Administrator & SDK March 1995 (trial 
software)
DECdirect CD Catalog Winter 1995
ONYX Electronic Systems and Options Catalog V1.0 (floppies)

Listings:
MAINDEC-11-DEFPB-A-D Feb 21, 1976 PDP11-45/55/70 FP11C part 2
MAINDEC-11-DEFPA-A-D Feb 21, 1976 PDP11-45/55/70 FP11C part 1
MAINDEC-11-DCKBA to DCKBE-C-D March 21, 1975 PDP11/45-11/40 BASIC CP TESTS

misc stuff - free

[Don Stalkowski via cctalk]

I'm listing this stuff just in case someone is desperate for
any of it.

All items are as-is and free. Pickup only here in London, ON.
I'm too old and too tired to run around shipping things.

I'll hold on to this stuff for a couple of weeks; after that it's
the recycling bin.

Softech microsystems UCSD p-System 8" floppy disks:
 CPM40D CPMDISK (BOOTER)
 UG84AT.C UPGRADE IV.03 Jun 16 1982
 N8P4AT 8080 NATIVE CODE GENERATOR Jun 16 1982
 LXP4BT UCSD Pascal Compiler Jan 1983
 LXP4AT.B UCSD Pascal Compiler Jun 16 1982
 UGC4AT.A UPGRADE Jun 16 1982
 OII40D ADAP ORIENTER Jan 5 1983
 IZP4BT.B Interpreter Jan 26 1983
 CZP4BT.B CPM ADAPTABLE Jan 26 1983
 SAP4BT.A SYSTEM Jan 26 1983
 CPM4BD CPM READABLE Jan 26 1983
 N8P4BT 8086 Native Code Genator (sic) Jan 26 1983

Hayes V-series Smartmodem 9600 (in box)
XT parallel port card

Apple mouse A2M4015

2 x Tandem binders
1 x GA binder

General Automation GA-16/220/330 microconsole and system console reference card
Raytheon PTS-100 reference card
Interdata model 70 and 80 programmer's guide reference card (1971)

Databooks:
M6800 Microcomputer Family - a 79 page Motorola pamphlet containing specs etc.
AMD Am29800 Family High Performance Bus Interface 1981
AMD MOS/LSI Data Book 1976
Synertek 1979 Data Catalog
Microprocessor Data Package - International Electronics Unlimited booklet
 on IMP MM5750, MM5751 CPU set

Data Sheets:
CR-112 4K MOS RAMs from Texas Instruments - reliability report for TMS 4030, 
4050, 4060
IMS2620 High Performance 16Kx4 Dynanic RAM - inmos #110 May 1983
IMS2630 High Performance 8Kx4 Dynanic RAM - inmos #111 November 1983
IMS2600 High Performance 64Kx1 Dynanic RAM - inmos #101 November 1983
GTE 8104/8114 Static RAMs 1024x8 N-MOS April 1980
Texas Instruments MOS/LSI Memory and Microprocessor Products June 1976

Books:
The SNOBOL4 Programming Language - Griswold et al

Manuals:
Courier 270 Information Display System Operator's Manual pub # 30-0002-00-00 
Jun 1975
ICC 40+ Data Display System Installation and Operation

GA 16/220 prints - this is a very complete set:
CUP NO. I, CPU NO. II, SYS. CNSL. INTF. W/IPL, 8K RAM, MEMORY SERVICE MODULE, 
TTY/with PS,
RS-232/TTY, COMPACT MIB, COMPACT PS

Re: tty and video displays

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2020-Dec-14, at 6:28 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> On Dec 14, 2020, at 9:26 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> On 2020-12-14 05:41, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 2020-Dec-14, at 1:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
 Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not 
 EQ might be = BS | Did any video display terminals
 repeat the same effect?
>>> 
>>> Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
>>> It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.
>>> 
>>> http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html
>>> 
>>> Note the screenshots in APL mode.
>> 
>> Is it really an overstrike? They look simply like different characters.
>> At least, I didn't (probably missed it) how they can be generated out of
>> the available ones...
> 
> I wondered too.  General overstrike requires a bitmap display, or some sort 
> of persistent display.  Paper is an example; a Tek 4010 would also handle 
> overstrike since it uses a storage tube.  And PLATO terminals did overstrike 
> just fine since they are bitmap displays with per-pixel memory.



Yes, it really is overstrike. This is pretty much explained in the text. You 
generate overstrikes by backing up and entering a 2nd character.
There are two full screen buffers, but only one page of display. There is a 
spring-loaded 3-position switch that allows you to temporarily 'disable' either 
of the buffers, so that only the characters in the other buffer are on screen 
while you hold the switch.

There are 95 symbols in the APL set encoded in the range 0x20 to 7E, as shown 
on the screenshots.
Now I haven't tried all 9025 possible overstrike combinations, but all sorts of 
non-sensical combinations produce what would be the expected result - an OR of 
the pixels of the contributing characters. For example, "A" can be overstruck 
with all the other letters of the alphabet, and all the letters of the alphabet 
can be overstruck with "A". It's not just the valid APL overstrike combinations.

A general overstrike capability like this doesn't need a bitmap display to 
accomplish. I haven't RE'd the character-pixel generation section, but the ICs 
present and the behaviour points to it doing something along the lines of:
In raster scanning, for each screen character cell:
- address buffer 1, send code through character generator, 
store result in pixel shift register.
- address buffer 2, send code through character generator, OR 
result into pixel shift register.
- shift the shift register pixels out to CRT.
- repeat for next character cell

Re: Macro-10 humour

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Nothing can beat HCF!

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-12-14 2:39 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> Byte magazine in the late 70’s had a list of funny mnemonics like this.
>
> My fav was 
> SDSD - Seek Data and Scar Disk.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 14, 2020, at 07:54, Don Stalkowski via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I came across this among some junk I had.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> .TY NEMON.DOC
>>
>> LEVEL 5  MACRO-10   MNEMONICS
>> =
>>
>>
>>
>>   COINCIDENT WITH THE RELEASE OF THE LEVEL 5 MONITOR SERIES, THE
>> MNEMONICS FOR THE HARDWARE INSTRUCTIONS USED IN THE MACRO-10
>> ASSEMBLER HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT CHANGES TO THE MONITOR, AND
>> NEW OPERATING PROCEDURES. ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE NOT ALL BEEN IMPLEMENTED
>> AS YET, A PARTIAL LISTING FOLLOWS:
>>
>> TRCETRANSLATE REDUNDANT CODE TO ETHIOPIAN
>> ROTCREQUEST OPERATOR TAKE OFF CLOTHES
>> TDCETRY TO DUMP CORE EVERYWHERE
>> HRRHASH RELOCATION REGISTERS
>> XCTEXTEND CYCLE TIME
>> ANDCMBALLOW NO DIRECT CURRENT IN MEMORY BANKS
>> AOSEALERT ONE SYSTEMS ENGINEER
>> SETNMSTART EJECTING TRANSISTORS AT NEAREST MACHINE
>> SETCMSTOP EVERYTHING TO CRASH MONITOR
>> SETAMSTART EATING TAPE ON ALTERNATE MONDAYS
>> TLCNTHROW LIFEPRESERVER INTO CHANNEL FOR NON-SWIMMER
>> MULMMONITOR UPDATE FROM LUNAR MODULE
>> MOVMSMAINTAIN ONLY VARIABLE MAGTAPE SPEED
>> FSBRIFIVE SONIC BOOMS OVER REMOTE INTERFACE
>> HRRESHIJACK REMOTE READER TO ENGINEERING SCIENCE
>> HRREMHALT AND REVERSE ROTATION ON EVERY MAGTAPE
>> JUMPEJUMBLE USERS' MEMORY ON PARITY ERROR
>> IDPBIMMEDIATELY DROP PARITY BIT
>> SETCAISUDDENLY ELECTRIFY TERMINAL ON CRUDELY ARTICULATED INPUT
>> JFFOJAIL AND FINGERPRINT FLIPPANT OPERATOR
>> ORCMBOPERATOR REQUEST TO CHANGE MAIN BATTERIES
>> SKIPSEARCH FOR KNOT IN INPUT STRING
>> SKIPLSKIP ON KNOT IN POWER LINE
>> ORCBIORDER REDUNDANT CHANNELS TO THE BACK OF THE I/O BUS
>> SUBISTART UNLOADING BAGGAGE FROM THE I/O BUS
>> PUSHPUNCH USING SEMI-CIRCULAR HOLES
>> JUMPLJUMP AND UNRAVEL MAIN POWER LINE
>> SOSLSMEAR OUTPUT ON SLOW LINE PRINTERS
>> TRONTRY TO REWIND OPERATORS' NECKTIE
>> SOSNSEND OUTPUT TO SUPERVISORS' NECKTIE
>> AOBJNADD ONE BIT TO JOB NUMBER
>> IMULMINSIST THAT MALICIOUS USERS BE LOCKED IN MEMORY
>> FMPRFORGET MEMORY PROTECTION AND RELOCATION
>> FMPRBFAKE MONITOR PROBLEMS AND RESET BRIEFLY
>> CAIECHANGE ADDRESSING TO INEFFECTIVE FROM EFFECTIVE
>> TRNTRANSLATE TO ROMAN NUMERALS
>> DPBDETACH PROCESSOR BRIEFLY
>> DIVBDECODE INTEGERS TO VERIFIED BRAILLE
>> SETCAISNICKER ON ERRONEOUS TYPEIN FOR CAI
>> DIVMBDESTROY INDIVIDUAL MEMORY BANK
>> ORCBOUTPUT A RECORD CODED IN BRAILLE
>> TRCETRANSFER ON ROMAN CATHOLIC ENGINEER
>> TLNETRANSFER ON LUTHERAN ENGINEER
>> TROATRANSFER ON ATHEIST
>> SOSSERVICE ONLY STUDENTS
>> SOJGSERVICE ONLY JEWISH GRAD STUDENTS
>> TDCTAKE DISK TO CHIROPRACTER
>> TSCATURN SYSTEM CLOCK AHEAD
>> FADRBFILTER AIR ON DETECTING ROPE BURNING
>> FADMFILTER AIR ON DETECTING MOUNTIE
>> PUSHJPROCESS USER'S SHORTHAND JOB
>> TDCATYPE DOCUMENTATION, CENSORING ANECDOTES
>> MOVEMMONITOR OUTPUTS A VULGAR ERROR MESSAGE
>> ADDMALLEVIATE DELAYS IN DECTAPE MOUNTING
>> AOSLAWAKEN OPERATOR IF SNORING LOUDLY
>> CAIECENSOR ALL INPUT FROM ENGINEERING
>> DPBDISPLAY PASSWORDS FROM BATCH
>> FSBMFAST SPLICE OF BROKEN MAGTAPE
>> BLTBEGIN LOSING TIME
>> S0JGSTACK OPERATOR (JUST GIRLS)
>> TSONTIME SLICE OF ONE NANOSECOND
>> JRSTJOG 'ROUND SEVEN TRACK TAPE
>> TSCTRANSFER SWAPPING TO CARDS
>>

Re: Macro-10 humour

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Byte magazine in the late 70’s had a list of funny mnemonics like this.

My fav was 
SDSD - Seek Data and Scar Disk.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2020, at 07:54, Don Stalkowski via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I came across this among some junk I had.
> 
> Don
> 
> .TY NEMON.DOC
> 
> LEVEL 5  MACRO-10   MNEMONICS
> =
> 
> 
> 
>   COINCIDENT WITH THE RELEASE OF THE LEVEL 5 MONITOR SERIES, THE
> MNEMONICS FOR THE HARDWARE INSTRUCTIONS USED IN THE MACRO-10
> ASSEMBLER HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT CHANGES TO THE MONITOR, AND
> NEW OPERATING PROCEDURES. ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE NOT ALL BEEN IMPLEMENTED
> AS YET, A PARTIAL LISTING FOLLOWS:
> 
> TRCETRANSLATE REDUNDANT CODE TO ETHIOPIAN
> ROTCREQUEST OPERATOR TAKE OFF CLOTHES
> TDCETRY TO DUMP CORE EVERYWHERE
> HRRHASH RELOCATION REGISTERS
> XCTEXTEND CYCLE TIME
> ANDCMBALLOW NO DIRECT CURRENT IN MEMORY BANKS
> AOSEALERT ONE SYSTEMS ENGINEER
> SETNMSTART EJECTING TRANSISTORS AT NEAREST MACHINE
> SETCMSTOP EVERYTHING TO CRASH MONITOR
> SETAMSTART EATING TAPE ON ALTERNATE MONDAYS
> TLCNTHROW LIFEPRESERVER INTO CHANNEL FOR NON-SWIMMER
> MULMMONITOR UPDATE FROM LUNAR MODULE
> MOVMSMAINTAIN ONLY VARIABLE MAGTAPE SPEED
> FSBRIFIVE SONIC BOOMS OVER REMOTE INTERFACE
> HRRESHIJACK REMOTE READER TO ENGINEERING SCIENCE
> HRREMHALT AND REVERSE ROTATION ON EVERY MAGTAPE
> JUMPEJUMBLE USERS' MEMORY ON PARITY ERROR
> IDPBIMMEDIATELY DROP PARITY BIT
> SETCAISUDDENLY ELECTRIFY TERMINAL ON CRUDELY ARTICULATED INPUT
> JFFOJAIL AND FINGERPRINT FLIPPANT OPERATOR
> ORCMBOPERATOR REQUEST TO CHANGE MAIN BATTERIES
> SKIPSEARCH FOR KNOT IN INPUT STRING
> SKIPLSKIP ON KNOT IN POWER LINE
> ORCBIORDER REDUNDANT CHANNELS TO THE BACK OF THE I/O BUS
> SUBISTART UNLOADING BAGGAGE FROM THE I/O BUS
> PUSHPUNCH USING SEMI-CIRCULAR HOLES
> JUMPLJUMP AND UNRAVEL MAIN POWER LINE
> SOSLSMEAR OUTPUT ON SLOW LINE PRINTERS
> TRONTRY TO REWIND OPERATORS' NECKTIE
> SOSNSEND OUTPUT TO SUPERVISORS' NECKTIE
> AOBJNADD ONE BIT TO JOB NUMBER
> IMULMINSIST THAT MALICIOUS USERS BE LOCKED IN MEMORY
> FMPRFORGET MEMORY PROTECTION AND RELOCATION
> FMPRBFAKE MONITOR PROBLEMS AND RESET BRIEFLY
> CAIECHANGE ADDRESSING TO INEFFECTIVE FROM EFFECTIVE
> TRNTRANSLATE TO ROMAN NUMERALS
> DPBDETACH PROCESSOR BRIEFLY
> DIVBDECODE INTEGERS TO VERIFIED BRAILLE
> SETCAISNICKER ON ERRONEOUS TYPEIN FOR CAI
> DIVMBDESTROY INDIVIDUAL MEMORY BANK
> ORCBOUTPUT A RECORD CODED IN BRAILLE
> TRCETRANSFER ON ROMAN CATHOLIC ENGINEER
> TLNETRANSFER ON LUTHERAN ENGINEER
> TROATRANSFER ON ATHEIST
> SOSSERVICE ONLY STUDENTS
> SOJGSERVICE ONLY JEWISH GRAD STUDENTS
> TDCTAKE DISK TO CHIROPRACTER
> TSCATURN SYSTEM CLOCK AHEAD
> FADRBFILTER AIR ON DETECTING ROPE BURNING
> FADMFILTER AIR ON DETECTING MOUNTIE
> PUSHJPROCESS USER'S SHORTHAND JOB
> TDCATYPE DOCUMENTATION, CENSORING ANECDOTES
> MOVEMMONITOR OUTPUTS A VULGAR ERROR MESSAGE
> ADDMALLEVIATE DELAYS IN DECTAPE MOUNTING
> AOSLAWAKEN OPERATOR IF SNORING LOUDLY
> CAIECENSOR ALL INPUT FROM ENGINEERING
> DPBDISPLAY PASSWORDS FROM BATCH
> FSBMFAST SPLICE OF BROKEN MAGTAPE
> BLTBEGIN LOSING TIME
> S0JGSTACK OPERATOR (JUST GIRLS)
> TSONTIME SLICE OF ONE NANOSECOND
> JRSTJOG 'ROUND SEVEN TRACK TAPE
> TSCTRANSFER SWAPPING TO CARDS
> 

RE: Gateway Electronics Sale this Saturday from 9am to 4pm

[jwest--- via cctalk]

Ditto. Would love an email for Doug...

Re: tty and video displays

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 6:28 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

>> Is it really an overstrike? They look simply like different characters.
>> At least, I didn't (probably missed it) how they can be generated out of
>> the available ones...
> 
> I wondered too.  General overstrike requires a bitmap display, or some sort 
> of persistent display.  Paper is an example; a Tek 4010 would also handle 
> overstrike since it uses a storage tube.  And PLATO terminals did overstrike 
> just fine since they are bitmap displays with per-pixel memory.

Back in the day (why is everything now "back in the day"?), I wrote the
firmware for a Fortune Systems text terminal.  The requirement was for a
certain degree of NAPLPS/Videotex compatibility.  Combining certain
characters was done via lookup in the character generator ROM, not by
combining them as graphical characters.   I suspect that this was the
method used for a large number of terminals, such as the Telidon units.

--Chuck

Re: tty and video displays

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 4:41 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2020-Dec-14, at 1:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:

Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not EQ 
might be = BS | Did any video display terminals
repeat the same effect?


Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.

http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html


Holy cow, I have that keyboard. I picked it up as surplus a few years ago 
from a place in Minneapolis and figured there was a very low probability of 
ever figuring out what machine it originally came from.


I didn't know the necessary voltages for it - I mean, the grounds and +5V 
are obvious, but I didn't know what it needed on pin 6. Given where I got 
it from, there's probably a fair chance that it's faulty (and encoders 
generally live a hard life), but I'll have to try powering it up now.


Just FYI if you're documenting things, mine has a very slightly different 
PCB to accommodate a pair of tantalum caps on the inputs, rather than the 
electrolytics on yours - caps are both rated 10uF, 35V. The encoder on mine 
is the same p/n but in a black plastic package rather than white ceramic 
(date code 7649). Sticker on the PCB underside says p/n 2129-009 and s/n 
720 097.


(It's definitely -12V, not -5V? I'm just thinking that the -12V noted on 
your schematic is quite close the the 15V rating on the cap - although that 
could explain why my later setup got caps rated to 35V, too)


cheers!

Jules

Macro-10 humour

[Don Stalkowski via cctalk]

I came across this among some junk I had.

Don

.TY NEMON.DOC

 LEVEL 5  MACRO-10   MNEMONICS
 =



   COINCIDENT WITH THE RELEASE OF THE LEVEL 5 MONITOR SERIES, THE
MNEMONICS FOR THE HARDWARE INSTRUCTIONS USED IN THE MACRO-10
ASSEMBLER HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT CHANGES TO THE MONITOR, AND
NEW OPERATING PROCEDURES. ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE NOT ALL BEEN IMPLEMENTED
AS YET, A PARTIAL LISTING FOLLOWS:

TRCETRANSLATE REDUNDANT CODE TO ETHIOPIAN
ROTCREQUEST OPERATOR TAKE OFF CLOTHES
TDCETRY TO DUMP CORE EVERYWHERE
HRR HASH RELOCATION REGISTERS
XCT EXTEND CYCLE TIME
ANDCMB  ALLOW NO DIRECT CURRENT IN MEMORY BANKS
AOSEALERT ONE SYSTEMS ENGINEER
SETNM   START EJECTING TRANSISTORS AT NEAREST MACHINE
SETCM   STOP EVERYTHING TO CRASH MONITOR
SETAM   START EATING TAPE ON ALTERNATE MONDAYS
TLCNTHROW LIFEPRESERVER INTO CHANNEL FOR NON-SWIMMER
MULMMONITOR UPDATE FROM LUNAR MODULE
MOVMS   MAINTAIN ONLY VARIABLE MAGTAPE SPEED
FSBRI   FIVE SONIC BOOMS OVER REMOTE INTERFACE
HRRES   HIJACK REMOTE READER TO ENGINEERING SCIENCE
HRREM   HALT AND REVERSE ROTATION ON EVERY MAGTAPE
JUMPE   JUMBLE USERS' MEMORY ON PARITY ERROR
IDPBIMMEDIATELY DROP PARITY BIT
SETCAI  SUDDENLY ELECTRIFY TERMINAL ON CRUDELY ARTICULATED INPUT
JFFOJAIL AND FINGERPRINT FLIPPANT OPERATOR
ORCMB   OPERATOR REQUEST TO CHANGE MAIN BATTERIES
SKIPSEARCH FOR KNOT IN INPUT STRING
SKIPL   SKIP ON KNOT IN POWER LINE
ORCBI   ORDER REDUNDANT CHANNELS TO THE BACK OF THE I/O BUS
SUBISTART UNLOADING BAGGAGE FROM THE I/O BUS
PUSHPUNCH USING SEMI-CIRCULAR HOLES
JUMPL   JUMP AND UNRAVEL MAIN POWER LINE
SOSLSMEAR OUTPUT ON SLOW LINE PRINTERS
TRONTRY TO REWIND OPERATORS' NECKTIE
SOSNSEND OUTPUT TO SUPERVISORS' NECKTIE
AOBJN   ADD ONE BIT TO JOB NUMBER
IMULM   INSIST THAT MALICIOUS USERS BE LOCKED IN MEMORY
FMPRFORGET MEMORY PROTECTION AND RELOCATION
FMPRB   FAKE MONITOR PROBLEMS AND RESET BRIEFLY
CAIECHANGE ADDRESSING TO INEFFECTIVE FROM EFFECTIVE
TRN TRANSLATE TO ROMAN NUMERALS
DPB DETACH PROCESSOR BRIEFLY
DIVBDECODE INTEGERS TO VERIFIED BRAILLE
SETCAI  SNICKER ON ERRONEOUS TYPEIN FOR CAI
DIVMB   DESTROY INDIVIDUAL MEMORY BANK
ORCBOUTPUT A RECORD CODED IN BRAILLE
TRCETRANSFER ON ROMAN CATHOLIC ENGINEER
TLNETRANSFER ON LUTHERAN ENGINEER
TROATRANSFER ON ATHEIST
SOS SERVICE ONLY STUDENTS
SOJGSERVICE ONLY JEWISH GRAD STUDENTS
TDC TAKE DISK TO CHIROPRACTER
TSCATURN SYSTEM CLOCK AHEAD
FADRB   FILTER AIR ON DETECTING ROPE BURNING
FADMFILTER AIR ON DETECTING MOUNTIE
PUSHJ   PROCESS USER'S SHORTHAND JOB
TDCATYPE DOCUMENTATION, CENSORING ANECDOTES
MOVEM   MONITOR OUTPUTS A VULGAR ERROR MESSAGE
ADDMALLEVIATE DELAYS IN DECTAPE MOUNTING
AOSLAWAKEN OPERATOR IF SNORING LOUDLY
CAIECENSOR ALL INPUT FROM ENGINEERING
DPB DISPLAY PASSWORDS FROM BATCH
FSBMFAST SPLICE OF BROKEN MAGTAPE
BLT BEGIN LOSING TIME
S0JGSTACK OPERATOR (JUST GIRLS)
TSONTIME SLICE OF ONE NANOSECOND
JRSTJOG 'ROUND SEVEN TRACK TAPE
TSC TRANSFER SWAPPING TO CARDS

Re: when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/14/2020 04:50 AM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:




However the Microdata Scribe, which was done by an 
engineer who later worked on a dot matrix printer for Data 
Products and manufactured in Irvine had reverse paper motion.


You could align the paper, set the page size which would 
logically fix the printer, and then control the motion 
over the page as needed.


It could print anywhere on the 14" platten w/o extra 
motion, so it was able to quickly move around the page 
doing either graphic printing, line printing which 
emulated a plotter, or print characters as needed.


I had a 1970's Honeywell drum printer that was part of a key 
to tape / tape to print system.
I think the printer was actually a mainframe product that 
was adapted to this purpose.
It had a core memory that held several hundred characters.  
The paper feed motor was
run from an analog servo amp, and could be commanded to 
index forwards and backwards.
In hardware (no CPU) it had a rudimentary "text editor" so 
you could place text from the core buffer anywhere on the 
page.  Since it had a pretty limited character set on the 
drum, I came up with a bunch of overstrike combinations to 
approximate the full ASCII special characters.  So, for 
instance,
< overstruck with ( was the { character.  Pascal listings 
looked pretty odd, but I could read them.


Jon

Re: Gateway Electronics Sale this Saturday from 9am to 4pm

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/09/2020 07:28 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:


At the original store.

from Doug on Facebook
Because you asked so nicely, we're having another $15 fill 
a tray day this Saturday 9-4.


at their location in Chesterfield “mall” in Chesterfield 
(west of St. Louis), Missouri.

Lower level on Sears end of “mall”.

Thanks
Jim


Jim, or others,

Do you have an email for Doug or Lisa?  I went to the 
Saturday tray sale and bought some stuff, but they were a 
bit busy and I didn't have a chance to say "goodbye".


Thanks,

Jon

Re: tty and video displays

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Dec 14, 2020, at 9:26 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2020-12-14 05:41, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
>> On 2020-Dec-14, at 1:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>> Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not EQ 
>>> might be = BS | Did any video display terminals
>>> repeat the same effect?
>> 
>> Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
>> It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.
>> 
>>  http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html
>> 
>> Note the screenshots in APL mode.
> 
> Is it really an overstrike? They look simply like different characters.
> At least, I didn't (probably missed it) how they can be generated out of
> the available ones...

I wondered too.  General overstrike requires a bitmap display, or some sort of 
persistent display.  Paper is an example; a Tek 4010 would also handle 
overstrike since it uses a storage tube.  And PLATO terminals did overstrike 
just fine since they are bitmap displays with per-pixel memory.

paul

Re: tty and video displays

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2020-12-14 05:41, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
> On 2020-Dec-14, at 1:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>> Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not EQ 
>> might be = BS | Did any video display terminals
>> repeat the same effect?
> 
> Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
> It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.
> 
>   http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html
> 
> Note the screenshots in APL mode.

Is it really an overstrike? They look simply like different characters.
At least, I didn't (probably missed it) how they can be generated out of
the available ones...

Re: when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Dec 13, 2020, at 9:37 PM, Stan Sieler via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> First, apologies if I asked this years ago (I've searched my archives, no
> hits :)
> 
> When was the concept of memory "above" the screen invented for terminals?
> 
> I.e., previously displayed data that had scrolled up and off the screen ...
> but could be retrieved (usually by scrolling down).
> 
> (Sometimes called "scrollback", or "offscreen memory".)
> 
> (BTW, I'm talking about terminal-local memory, not a scrollback implemented
> by the computer to which the terminal is connected.)
> 
> The HP 2640A, 1974, had (IIRC) several pages of memory available ... the
> user could scroll
> backwards and see what had been on the screen before it scrolled off (as
> long
> as it hadn't been lost by having too much subsequent output).
> 
> I suspect the DEV VT100, 1978, had it, but I can't find definitive proof
> online (sure, I can find VT102 emulators that have scrollback, but reading
> an old VT102 manual doesn't make it clear that it has it.)

Definitely not any of the DEC plain terminals.  However, the VT71/t (a.k.a., 
VT72), an LSI-11 based smart terminal that did local editing of a whole file, 
had a lot of memory only a small part of which was displayed.  And before that 
was the VT20, a very similar device controlled by an 11/05 (one for two 
"heads").  The VT71 dates to around 1977.

Depending on how loose your definition of off-screen memory is, the console 
display of the CDC 6000 mainframes (from around 1965) might qualify.

paul

Re: tty and video displays

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 4:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not 
EQ might be = BS | Did any video display terminals

repeat the same effect?
Ben.




APL Terminals where many of the characters are overstrike.

bill

Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out.

[David Gesswein via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:00:43PM -0500, Chris Zach wrote:
> 
> I'm going to have to get that GSC thing out as well if I am going to reach
> these.
> 

Looks like a rebadged HP 1000 series machine.

Re: Help needed identifying old MFM drives from the excavation

[Martin Peters via cctalk]

Fred Cisin via cctalk:
(...)
> The Seagates were commodity drives, used in almost everything.
> Number is approximately the unformatted capacity.
> ST506 was 5MB formatted (305 Cyl x 2 heads) ;

The ST-506 had 2 platters, 4 heads. Mechanically the ST-506 and the
ST-412 are mostly the same. The track-to-track-distance and the position
of the inner and outer track differ.

> ST412 added buffered seek, was 10MB formatted (306 cyl x 4 heads).

Yes, but there are later versions auf the ST-506 with microcontroller on
it. Don't know if they already allowed buffered seek, but I think so.

--map

-- 
Martin Peters
mar...@shackspace.de

Re: when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 12/13/2020 10:10 PM, Frank McConnell via cctalk wrote:

On Dec 13, 2020, at 18:37, Stan Sieler wrote:

Hi,

First, apologies if I asked this years ago (I've searched my archives, no
hits :)

When was the concept of memory "above" the screen invented for terminals?

I.e., previously displayed data that had scrolled up and off the screen ...
but could be retrieved (usually by scrolling down).

Printing terminals.  Just pull the printed paper up from where it has fallen
behind your Teletype or DECwriter or Silent 700 or Terminet.
I know you're trying to be cute because I believe the "page" wasn't 
paper the OP was referring to.


However the Microdata Scribe, which was done by an engineer who later 
worked on a dot matrix printer for Data Products and manufactured in 
Irvine had reverse paper motion.


You could align the paper, set the page size which would logically fix 
the printer, and then control the motion over the page as needed.


It could print anywhere on the 14" platten w/o extra motion, so it was 
able to quickly move around the page doing either graphic printing, line 
printing which emulated a plotter, or print characters as needed.


Not related to scroll back or paper motion it had a really powerful font 
support mechanism.  All of this was done when memory became cheap and 
reliable enough that you could have more than just display memory and a 
smidge of ram for a display processor in the terminal.


I didn't see the functions of the Scribe duplicated in any other printer 
in the price or performance class.


The other thing that is nice about the printer is that it used the same 
OEM head that the TI 8xx series printers did, so you could buy them very 
economically in the day, the ribbons were the same and cheap.  Today 
they still are among the most common NOS around for such parts.


I bought the optional keyboard, so I had a KSR printing terminal and 
could scroll back with the printer.  It was essentially equivalent to 
the DEC LA printers, but the scroll back could be done from the keyboard.

thanks
Jim

(Sometimes called "scrollback", or "offscreen memory".)

(BTW, I'm talking about terminal-local memory, not a scrollback implemented
by the computer to which the terminal is connected.)

The HP 2640A, 1974, had (IIRC) several pages of memory available ... the
user could scroll
backwards and see what had been on the screen before it scrolled off (as
long
as it hadn't been lost by having too much subsequent output).

That was, kind of sort of, the on-screen effect, but it could vary.

Between 1977 and 1981 I used 2640B terminals which had been purchased
without many options.  They didn’t have lower case characters (these
were displayed as upper case characters, and sometimes hilarity ensued),
and they had about 1KB of display memory.

Now you may be thinking that 24 rows of 80 characters is more like 1920
characters which would require a little more than 1KB of display memory,
and you would be correct.

The tricky bit about the 264X display controller is that it is reading
display memory as a linked list of fixed-size short chunks (under 20
bytes) and the last one has an end-of-line indicator in it (it is an
ASCII terminal and byte values 0x80-0xff are interpreted as display
controls).  So a short line of text doesn’t take up as much display
memory.  Which means you can have more of them in display memory.

So your 2640B with 1KB display memory has scrollback if most lines that
you have in memory are short, but can only fill its screen halfway if
all lines are long.


I suspect the DEV VT100, 1978, had it, but I can't find definitive proof
online (sure, I can find VT102 emulators that have scrollback, but reading
an old VT102 manual doesn't make it clear that it has it.)

I think the VT100 did not.  I’m not sure it matters.  The 2640A would
predate the VT100.

I wonder if the termcap da and/or db flags would turn up some older
terminals with the same feature.  (These indicate display above and
display below.)

-Frank McConnell

Re: tty and video displays

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2020-Dec-14, at 1:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not EQ 
> might be = BS | Did any video display terminals
> repeat the same effect?

Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.

http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html

Note the screenshots in APL mode.

Re: when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2020-Dec-13, at 6:37 PM, Stan Sieler via cctalk wrote:
> ...
> When was the concept of memory "above" the screen invented for terminals?
> 
> I.e., previously displayed data that had scrolled up and off the screen ...
> but could be retrieved (usually by scrolling down).
> 
> (Sometimes called "scrollback", or "offscreen memory".)
> 
> (BTW, I'm talking about terminal-local memory, not a scrollback implemented
> by the computer to which the terminal is connected.)
> 
> The HP 2640A, 1974, had (IIRC) several pages of memory available ... the
> user could scroll
> backwards and see what had been on the screen before it scrolled off (as
> long
> as it hadn't been lost by having too much subsequent output).
> 
> I suspect the DEV VT100, 1978, had it, but I can't find definitive proof
> online (sure, I can find VT102 emulators that have scrollback, but reading
> an old VT102 manual doesn't make it clear that it has it.)


If it fits your definitions, you might look into the Teletype Model 40 if more 
info to that below can be found.

On pdf.pg.60 of this article:

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/datapro/alphanumeric_terminals/Datapro_C25-010_197904.pdf
the Model 40 is shown with "Paging: Opt. 2/3 pages" and "First production 
delivery: 10/73"

tty and video displays

[ben via cctalk]

Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not 
EQ might be = BS | Did any video display terminals

repeat the same effect?
Ben.

Re: when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 12/13/20 11:09 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> IIRC, there were block-mode terminals with several pages of memory.
> 
> --Chuck
> 

Come to think of it, Don Lancaster's TVTypewriter had 2 pages of memory.

--Chuck