[cctalk] Re: Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

On Apr 4, 2024, at 7:17 PM, Kevin Bowling  wrote:
> 
> There is an ebay seller 'biff-howard-tanen' that has some C200s up
> right now.  All their items have "Make an Offer'' and they tend to be
> fairly reasonable as long as you account for the free shipping they
> offer.  I've had mostly good luck with buying from them, and they made
> right the couple oops.

I can vouch for them as a seller in the same way, I've also gotten reasonable 
prices from them when making offers that account for shipping, and the seller 
actually knows how to pack stuff. Same with eBay seller jonnyadler, though 
their list price for a C180 is,  let's say, "optimistic.")

  -- Chris

[cctalk] Re: Looking for an HP 9000/778 workstation B160/180

[Kevin Bowling via cctalk]

eBay prices have gotten silly.  Sellers seem a lot more willing to sit
on items for years hoping they get 4-5x what something should sell for
rather than moving volume these days.  It's odd psychology when you
know a lot of it just gets scrapped eventually when it never sells.

There is an ebay seller 'biff-howard-tanen' that has some C200s up
right now.  All their items have "Make an Offer'' and they tend to be
fairly reasonable as long as you account for the free shipping they
offer.  I've had mostly good luck with buying from them, and they made
right the couple oops.

Regards,
Kevin

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chris Hanson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I just looked at the prices on eBay—yikes! All of my HP hardware from that 
> era was pretty inexpensive a few years back.
>
> What are people using the B180L for that’s driven the prices so high? I 
> assume it’s another “there’s a piece of equipment that was built around this 
> specific platform 20+ years ago, and we’re still running it so we need 
> spares” situation, just like the equipment that was built around the 
> VAXstation 4000 Model 90 which keeps the price on that insane.
>
> Is there a specific need you’re trying to fill? I wound up with an additional 
> B- or C-series workstation as part of a deal, I can check what model it is 
> (it’s in storage right now) and we can talk off-list about maybe getting it 
> to a good home. (I’m in the SF Bay Area if that helps, no idea where you are.)
>
>   -- Chris
>
> PS - There’s a Vintage HP Computers group at https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/ 
> where you’ll also find lots of folks talking about the entire range of HP 
> computer hardware.
>

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

Well, The SoftCard and the Language Card (why did they call it that?)
both go for $100 a piece.  The one is a IIe, not a \\e.

Was that "IIe", "][e", or "//e"?


There are
some on eBay now for more than $2000.  I wouldn't expect that but I
do find it interesting that all the stuff I have is worthless unless
someone else is selling it.  :-)


Speculation:

The "Language Card" could be populated with a fancy BASIC (what Kurtz and 
Kemeny called "street BASIC"), OR COULD BE, at least in theory, populated 
with other languages, hence the name "Language Card".  I am not aware of 
any successful examples of it ever being populated with anything other 
than BASIC.



The "Soft Card" was Microsoft's first significant venture into hardware. 
It was incredibly successful, and Microsoft's largest revenue source in 
1980.  At one point, somebody at Apple said that 20% of AppleII owners had 
one.


"The SoftCard was Paul Allen's idea.[5] Its original purpose was to 
simplify porting Microsoft's computer-language products to the Apple 
II.[6] The SoftCard was developed by Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer 
Products (SCP). SCP built prototypes,[7] Don Burtis of Burtronix 
redesigned the card, and California Computer Systems manufactured it for 
Microsoft.[8] Unsure whether the card would sell, Microsoft first 
demonstrated it publicly at the West Coast Computer Faire in March 
1980.[2]["  - Wikipedia


It had a Z80, and a copy of CP/M.  I suspect that the name "Soft Card" 
might be due to its intent to open the Apple to CP/M SOFTware, 
particularly software that Micorsoft had originally written in 8080/Z80.


There were rumors that an IBM person had one in a personal Apple, and that 
that caused IBM, when they went to Microsoft for BASIC, to assume that 
they could get CP/M (CP/M-86) through Microsoft.  When Microsoft sent them 
to DRI for CP/M, IBM and DRI had a "culture clash" and IBM went back to 
Microsoft (long story, with some disagreements about details)



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 2:25 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> > It depends on the model.  Typically an Apple ][ of any model sells for
> > $100-$250, depending on accessories and configuration. Unless you have a
> > straight Apple ][ (and not Plus, as I'm assuming), what you describe
> sounds
> > like a $250-$300 ][+ system, and $400-$450 for the //e.  Give or take
> eBay
> > markup.
> >
>
> Well, The SoftCard and the Language Card (why did they call it that?)
> both go for $100 a piece.  The one is a IIe, not a \\e.  There are
> some on eBay now for more than $2000.  I wouldn't expect that but I
> do find it interesting that all the stuff I have is worthless unless
> someone else is selling it.  :-)
>

That's not how it works but it sounds like you got it figured out.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 3:49 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 10:20 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.

bill



It depends on the model.  Typically an Apple ][ of any model sells for
$100-$250, depending on accessories and configuration. Unless you have a
straight Apple ][ (and not Plus, as I'm assuming), what you describe sounds
like a $250-$300 ][+ system, and $400-$450 for the //e.  Give or take eBay
markup.



Well, The SoftCard and the Language Card (why did they call it that?)
both go for $100 a piece.  The one is a IIe, not a \\e.  There are
some on eBay now for more than $2000.  I wouldn't expect that but I
do find it interesting that all the stuff I have is worthless unless
someone else is selling it.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Tom Uban via cctalk]

This one: https://scopeclock.com/

You can see the connected arcs in the pic on the main page.

I built an older model years ago and it is still running...

--tom

On 4/4/24 15:21, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 8:36 PM Paul Koning via cctalk 
wrote:


https://scopeclock.com/ 

Technically, the scopeClock is generating neither curves nor vectors,

it's generating pixels in an XY display - it's just that they’re of fine
enough resolution and fast enough that they’re seen as a smooth-enough
curve on the CRT.


That's disappointing. There was such a clock, and I thought I'd found it
since it described using circle generators - but was surprised to find it
used a teensy.
Does anyone know which clock used analog circuits to form the characters ?

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Adrian Godwin via cctalk]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 8:36 PM Paul Koning via cctalk 
wrote:

> >
> >> https://scopeclock.com/ 
> > Technically, the scopeClock is generating neither curves nor vectors,
> it's generating pixels in an XY display - it's just that they’re of fine
> enough resolution and fast enough that they’re seen as a smooth-enough
> curve on the CRT.
> >
>
>
That's disappointing. There was such a clock, and I thought I'd found it
since it described using circle generators - but was surprised to find it
used a teensy.
Does anyone know which clock used analog circuits to form the characters ?

[cctalk] Re: Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 4, 2024, at 12:46 PM, Sellam Abraham  wrote:
> 
> The mystery deepens.
> 
> I was in touch with John Lawson up until around 2013-2014 when he stopped 
> responding to my calls/texts/emails (which could have been for several 
> reasons).
> 
> I only thought of Joe recently out of the blue and thought I'd see if he was 
> still around.  Jay West (in the ClassicCmp Discord server) said he was 
> friends with Joe and hosted his website and used to communicate with him 
> regularly but then stopped hearing from him at some point, and as of 5 years 
> ago he and others made a concerted effort to locate him to no avail.
> 
> So this is a last ditch effort on my own part to find them before I figure 
> it's time for eulogies.
> 
> Sellam 

Have you checked with Eric Smith or Dave McGuire?  I want to say that Dave was 
in the same general area as Joe when he lived in Florida.

Other people I’d love to know how their doing would be James Willing, Allison 
Parent, and Megan Gentry.

Zane

[cctalk] Re: Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

[Christian Kennedy via cctalk]

Hi Sellam,

On 4/4/24 12:18, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

It's been quite a while.


Too long.  Life happened.


So I'm not sure if he passed or not because he wasn't in the
greatest health but he lost a bunch of weight the last time I saw him and
was looking pretty good.  But that was 10 years ago and he wasn't that
young then.  However, I find no obituaries, but then there's no guarantee
he didn't move somewhere else in the meantime.


I visited him in Dayton sometime in the first half of 2017, and he 
seemed quite alive and kicking then.  He seemed to be moving back into 
radio as his time-and-resource sink at the time.


I have a couple of other leads to chase up.  I'll let the list know if I 
learn anything.


Cheers,

Chris

--
Christian Kennedy, Ph.D.
ch...@mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB0692 | PG00029419
http://www.mainecoon.comPGP KeyID 108DAB97
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
"Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration…"

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 10:20 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
> go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
> card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
> 2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
> for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.
>
> bill
>

It depends on the model.  Typically an Apple ][ of any model sells for
$100-$250, depending on accessories and configuration. Unless you have a
straight Apple ][ (and not Plus, as I'm assuming), what you describe sounds
like a $250-$300 ][+ system, and $400-$450 for the //e.  Give or take eBay
markup.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 12:39 PM Zane Healy  wrote:

> On Apr 3, 2024, at 5:48 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone communicated with or know a way to communicate with Joe Rigdon
> > out of Florida?  Most here should know him as an old-school ClassicCmp
> > veteran.
> >
> > If anyone has any information at all on the whereabouts of Joe Rigdon,
> and
> > for that matter John Lawson, please either reply here or to me privately
> as
> > appropriate.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Sellam
>
>
> According to the archives I have on my computer, John Lawson announced
> here on June 15th, 2005 that he was leaving the hobby.
>
> It looks like Joe was last on the list in November 2006, at that time he
> was still using the rr.com email address.
>
> Sadly I don’t know how to reach either of them.  Eric Smith apparently had
> Joe’s phone number in 2011, I don’t know if he spoke to him at that time.
>
> Zane
>

The mystery deepens.

I was in touch with John Lawson up until around 2013-2014 when he stopped
responding to my calls/texts/emails (which could have been for several
reasons).

I only thought of Joe recently out of the blue and thought I'd see if he
was still around.  Jay West (in the ClassicCmp Discord server) said he was
friends with Joe and hosted his website and used to communicate with him
regularly but then stopped hearing from him at some point, and as of 5
years ago he and others made a concerted effort to locate him to no avail.

So this is a last ditch effort on my own part to find them before I figure
it's time for eulogies.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Apr 3, 2024, at 5:48 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
> Has anyone communicated with or know a way to communicate with Joe Rigdon
> out of Florida?  Most here should know him as an old-school ClassicCmp
> veteran.
> 
> If anyone has any information at all on the whereabouts of Joe Rigdon, and
> for that matter John Lawson, please either reply here or to me privately as
> appropriate.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Sellam


According to the archives I have on my computer, John Lawson announced here on 
June 15th, 2005 that he was leaving the hobby.

It looks like Joe was last on the list in November 2006, at that time he was 
still using the rr.com email address.

Sadly I don’t know how to reach either of them.  Eric Smith apparently had 
Joe’s phone number in 2011, I don’t know if he spoke to him at that time.

Zane

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 4, 2024, at 3:12 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2024Apr 4,, at 7:22 AM, Adrian Godwin via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> This 'scope clock also uses circle generators rather than vectors to
>> produce well-formed characters. It mentions a Teensy controller so I don't
>> think it's the original made in this way - the first I heard of was too
>> long ago for that. But I don't know if it's an update or a separate design.
> 
>> https://scopeclock.com/ 
> Technically, the scopeClock is generating neither curves nor vectors, it's 
> generating pixels in an XY display - it's just that they’re of fine enough 
> resolution and fast enough that they’re seen as a smooth-enough curve on the 
> CRT.
> 
> The MIT/Electronics-magazine and Wyle techniques are using analog electronics 
> to generate portions of sine waves for selected phase periods and phase 
> relation such that when applied to the XY cartesian display you get 
> continuous portions (chords) of circles. Some digital logic gates the analog 
> sine generators appropriately to produce the chords and line segments, with 
> offsets, in a sequence to form characters.
> 
> The scopeClock, in contrast, is using DACs in the microcontroller to generate 
> (discrete approximations of) sine wave segments - which is to say it’s 
> relying on the abilities of inexpensive current-day high-speed digital 
> electronics.

That is similar to what the CDC 6612 controller for the DD60 console display 
does.  So given that you're sending the resulting step waveform through a 
deflection circuit with finite bandwidth, you do in fact end up with a 
continuous vector with rounded features.  How nicely rounded depends on the 
bandwidth and the number and size of the steps.  For example, the DD60 display 
doesn't look all that elegant, but it is definitely well rounded, simply 
because the step clock is 10 MHz and the deflection chain bandwidth isn't a 
whole lot more than that.  So the fact that you're dealing with what originally 
was a step waveform with just 7 positions for X and Y isn't at all obvious in 
the final image.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

Hi Chris.

It's been quite a while.

Those are the numbers I have for John last as well.  He stopped responding
to me over 10 years ago but I'm not sure if that was because he was tired
of me or just tired (I was going through a phase myself and pissed off some
friends inadvertently).  But around that time for a couple years I would
periodically reach out via text and maybe a phone call but he never
responded.  So I'm not sure if he passed or not because he wasn't in the
greatest health but he lost a bunch of weight the last time I saw him and
was looking pretty good.  But that was 10 years ago and he wasn't that
young then.  However, I find no obituaries, but then there's no guarantee
he didn't move somewhere else in the meantime.

Anyway, I hope you've been well.

Sellam

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:49 PM Christian Kennedy via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> On 4/3/24 17:48, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > If anyone has any information at all on the whereabouts of Joe Rigdon,
> and
> > for that matter John Lawson, please either reply here or to me privately
> as
> > appropriate.
>
> Last contact info I have for John is:
>
> 738 Monico Dr.
> Dayton, NV 89403
> 775 230 8242
> 775 241 0546
> j...@nnevllc.com
>
> Note that the domain appears to be semi-parked, so I don't know if the
> address is still good.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Christian Kennedy, Ph.D.
> ch...@mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB0692 | PG00029419
> http://www.mainecoon.comPGP KeyID 108DAB97
> PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
> "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration…"
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Hi Bill. I would be interested in the rz28 drives. They would work on my Alpha. 
I live in the Los Angeles area though so i would need shipping. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2024, at 12:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/4/2024 2:39 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
 On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)
>> Is the RSTS/E disk something that needs to be preserved?
> 
> Not by me.  And I created it.  Not sure if it was from an 11/44,
> 11/73 or 11/23 but it dates back to when Mentec gave me a license
> to run PDP-11 OSes at the University.  As a matter of fact, I see
> where I still have the TK50 and 9-track install tapes.
> 
> bill
> 
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 2:39 PM, Zane Healy wrote:



On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
 wrote:


 7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)


Is the RSTS/E disk something that needs to be preserved?



Not by me.  And I created it.  Not sure if it was from an 11/44,
11/73 or 11/23 but it dates back to when Mentec gave me a license
to run PDP-11 OSes at the University.  As a matter of fact, I see
where I still have the TK50 and 9-track install tapes.

bill

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

> On 2024Apr 4,, at 7:22 AM, Adrian Godwin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> This 'scope clock also uses circle generators rather than vectors to
> produce well-formed characters. It mentions a Teensy controller so I don't
> think it's the original made in this way - the first I heard of was too
> long ago for that. But I don't know if it's an update or a separate design.

> https://scopeclock.com/ 
Technically, the scopeClock is generating neither curves nor vectors, it's 
generating pixels in an XY display - it's just that they’re of fine enough 
resolution and fast enough that they’re seen as a smooth-enough curve on the 
CRT.

The MIT/Electronics-magazine and Wyle techniques are using analog electronics 
to generate portions of sine waves for selected phase periods and phase 
relation such that when applied to the XY cartesian display you get continuous 
portions (chords) of circles. Some digital logic gates the analog sine 
generators appropriately to produce the chords and line segments, with offsets, 
in a sequence to form characters.

The scopeClock, in contrast, is using DACs in the microcontroller to generate 
(discrete approximations of) sine wave segments - which is to say it’s relying 
on the abilities of inexpensive current-day high-speed digital electronics.

Thanks Paul, for pulling up the article, I recalled it as well when Rick 
mentioned the technique of the Wyle.  I think I ran across it many years ago 
when sorting through stacks of Electronics magazines at our radio museum.

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
>  7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

Is the RSTS/E disk something that needs to be preserved?

Zane

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Wayne S via cctalk]

What were the brand new DEC disks?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2024, at 10:53, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Apple II's go for a lot.  The iie a lot less.  Compare the original cbm Pet
> with later Pets
> Bill
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 1:20 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
>> go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
>> card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
>> 2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
>> for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.
>> 
>> bill
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

Apple II's go for a lot.  The iie a lot less.  Compare the original cbm Pet
with later Pets
Bill

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024, 1:20 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
> go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
> card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
> 2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
> for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.
>
> bill
>

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 4/4/24 09:54, CAREY SCHUG wrote:
> my syquests say 135 mb, though IIRC that must be raw, because useable was a 
> more even number, like 125mb, which the formatting program agreed with.  I 
> made it my c: drive on my  I386 pc so I could switch operating systems before 
> virtualization.  I was pissed that though os/2 said it would install on 125 
> MB, it actually meant OVER 125 MB and would not install.
>
The EZ 135 was yet a different format, succeeded by the EZ Flyer 230 MB.
 Lower-priced versions of the cartridge drives I mentioned--and utterly
incompatible.

Then there was the ill-fated 1GB SyQest SparQ drive, available, AFAIK,
only in parallel printer port version (a big mistake).  I still have one
in original bubble-pack.  I don't know if I ever bothered to see if it
works.

It was pretty clear at that time that SyQuest was in a losing position.

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 11:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:




One more list before I give up.

Anybody interested in Iomega drive?

I have:
     2 - 90 Pro
     2 - 150 Multidisk
and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.

To go along with them I have:
     4 - 90M Carts
     3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
     7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
the Sparc Pizza boxes.


I also have piles of IDE drives that range from the days when you
had "disk types" for the PC Bios up to GB sizes.  Also, CD drives
including a bunch of various laptop models.

I have piles of other stuff, too, but I am not going to bother
listing as I thought the most valuable were the brand new DEC
disks and the SB shelves but they apparently aren't worth a thing.



Found the 230 drive.  Actually two of them.  And both in external
boxes.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[CAREY SCHUG via cctalk]

my syquests say 135 mb, though IIRC that must be raw, because useable was a 
more even number, like 125mb, which the formatting program agreed with.  I made 
it my c: drive on my  I386 pc so I could switch operating systems before 
virtualization.  I was pissed that though os/2 said it would install on 125 MB, 
it actually meant OVER 125 MB and would not install.

--Carey

> On 04/04/2024 11:47 AM CDT Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> On 4/4/24 09:27, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> > 
> 
> > Was there any other kind?
> > 
> > Oh yeah, I also have one marketed for use on the Mac.  It says 88M
> > on the front.
> 
> Zip, Jazall Iomega.  The Zips were 100MB, 250MB and 750MB.  The Jaz
> was 1 GB and 2 GB, if memory serves.
> 
> The 88M sounds like a SyQuest drive--very popular in the 90s with the
> Mac crowd.  Pretty much unknown in the PC world.  44M 88M and 200M,
> after which SyQuest went toes-up.
> 
> Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 4/4/24 09:27, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> 

> Was there any other kind?
> 
> Oh yeah, I also have one marketed for use on the Mac.  It says 88M
> on the front.

Zip, Jazall Iomega.  The Zips were 100MB, 250MB and 750MB.  The Jaz
was 1 GB and 2 GB, if memory serves.

The 88M sounds like a SyQuest drive--very popular in the 90s with the
Mac crowd.  Pretty much unknown in the PC world.  44M 88M and 200M,
after which SyQuest went toes-up.

Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 11:36 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 4/4/24 08:05, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


One more list before I give up.

Anybody interested in Iomega drive?

I have:
     2 - 90 Pro
     2 - 150 Multidisk
and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.

To go along with them I have:
     4 - 90M Carts
     3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
     7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
the Sparc Pizza boxes.


Just to be clear, Bill, these are the 5.25" Bernoulli drives, right?



Was there any other kind?

Oh yeah, I also have one marketed for use on the Mac.  It says 88M
on the front.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 4/4/24 08:05, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

> One more list before I give up.
> 
> Anybody interested in Iomega drive?
> 
> I have:
>     2 - 90 Pro
>     2 - 150 Multidisk
> and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.
> 
> To go along with them I have:
>     4 - 90M Carts
>     3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
>     7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)
> 
> I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
> the Sparc Pizza boxes.
> 
Just to be clear, Bill, these are the 5.25" Bernoulli drives, right?

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

One more list before I give up.

Anybody interested in Iomega drive?

I have:
2 - 90 Pro
2 - 150 Multidisk
and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.

To go along with them I have:
4 - 90M Carts
3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
the Sparc Pizza boxes.


I also have piles of IDE drives that range from the days when you
had "disk types" for the PC Bios up to GB sizes.  Also, CD drives
including a bunch of various laptop models.

I have piles of other stuff, too, but I am not going to bother
listing as I thought the most valuable were the brand new DEC
disks and the SB shelves but they apparently aren't worth a thing.

bill

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Adrian Godwin via cctalk]

This 'scope clock also uses circle generators rather than vectors to
produce well-formed characters. It mentions a Teensy controller so I don't
think it's the original made in this way - the first I heard of was too
long ago for that. But I don't know if it's an update or a separate design.

https://scopeclock.com/


On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 2:59 PM Paul Koning via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> > On Apr 3, 2024, at 6:32 PM, Rick Bensene  wrote:
> >
> > I wrote:
> >
> >>> The digits are among the nicest looking digits that I've ever seen
> >>> on a CRT display, including those on the CDC scopes as well as IBM >>
> console displays.
> >
> > To which Paul responded:
> >
> >> I have, somewhere, a copy of a paper that describes analog circuits >
> for generating waveforms for digits along the lines you describe.
> >> Might have been from MIT, in the 1950s, but right now I can't find > it.
> >
> >> Found it (on paper): "Generating characters" by Kenneth Perry and
> >> Everett Aho, > Electronics, Jan 3, 1958, pp. 72-75.
> >
> >> Bitsavers has it in the MIT/LincolnLaboratory section:
> https://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/lincolnLaboratory/Perry_and_Aho__Generating_Characters_-_Electronics_19580103.pdf
> >
> > Very interesting.   Here's a link to the patent for the display system
> on the Wyle Labs calculator:
> >
> >
> https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/17/51/58/89c19cee6c60e2/US3305843.pdf
> >
> > The concepts are very similar to the paper written up in ELECTRONICS
> magazine in early 1958 that you found.  Your memory is incredible to have
> been able to have this pop into your mind when you read my description of
> the way the calculator generates its display.
> >
> > Thank you for looking up this article!   It'll provide some nice
> background for the concepts of generating characters this way when I
> finally get to documenting the Wyle WS-01/WS-02 calculators in an Old
> Calculator Museum exhibit.
> >
> > I wonder if the inventor of the display system for the calculator (in
> fact, the inventor of the entire Wyle Labs calculator architecture) had
> read this article at some point prior?
> >
> > I scanned through the patent for the calculator display system looking
> for any reference to the article or any document from MIT relating, and I
> couldn't find anything.
>
> I didn't see any either, and the patent examiners didn't cite any.  Then
> again, it's amazing how often patent examiners miss relevant prior art.
> One example I like to mention is Edwin Armstrong's patent for FM radio,
> which doesn't cite an actual earlier US patent, 1,648,402 from 1927,
> actually filed 12 years before Armstrong's.  Or the prior art centuries
> preceding US 6469...
>
> On the other hand, while the concept is similar the details are rather
> different, and the Wyle design is clearly a whole lot simpler.
>
> > The inventor is still alive, and I have talked to him on the telephone a
> couple of times.   For his advanced age, he is still quite sharp, and
> remembers a lot of the challenges involved with trying to make a
> solid-state electronic calculator that would fit on a (large) desktop using
> early 1960's technology.
>
> It would be neat to ask him about that MIT article.
>
> paul
>
>

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 3, 2024, at 6:32 PM, Rick Bensene  wrote:
> 
> I wrote:
> 
>>> The digits are among the nicest looking digits that I've ever seen 
>>> on a CRT display, including those on the CDC scopes as well as IBM >> 
>>> console displays.
> 
> To which Paul responded:
> 
>> I have, somewhere, a copy of a paper that describes analog circuits > for 
>> generating waveforms for digits along the lines you describe.  
>> Might have been from MIT, in the 1950s, but right now I can't find > it.
> 
>> Found it (on paper): "Generating characters" by Kenneth Perry and 
>> Everett Aho, > Electronics, Jan 3, 1958, pp. 72-75.
> 
>> Bitsavers has it in the MIT/LincolnLaboratory section:   
>> https://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/lincolnLaboratory/Perry_and_Aho__Generating_Characters_-_Electronics_19580103.pdf
> 
> Very interesting.   Here's a link to the patent for the display system on the 
> Wyle Labs calculator:
> 
> https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/17/51/58/89c19cee6c60e2/US3305843.pdf
> 
> The concepts are very similar to the paper written up in ELECTRONICS magazine 
> in early 1958 that you found.  Your memory is incredible to have been able to 
> have this pop into your mind when you read my description of the way the 
> calculator generates its display.
> 
> Thank you for looking up this article!   It'll provide some nice background 
> for the concepts of generating characters this way when I finally get to 
> documenting the Wyle WS-01/WS-02 calculators in an Old Calculator Museum 
> exhibit.
> 
> I wonder if the inventor of the display system for the calculator (in fact, 
> the inventor of the entire Wyle Labs calculator architecture) had read this 
> article at some point prior?  
> 
> I scanned through the patent for the calculator display system looking for 
> any reference to the article or any document from MIT relating, and I 
> couldn't find anything.   

I didn't see any either, and the patent examiners didn't cite any.  Then again, 
it's amazing how often patent examiners miss relevant prior art.  One example I 
like to mention is Edwin Armstrong's patent for FM radio, which doesn't cite an 
actual earlier US patent, 1,648,402 from 1927, actually filed 12 years before 
Armstrong's.  Or the prior art centuries preceding US 6469...

On the other hand, while the concept is similar the details are rather 
different, and the Wyle design is clearly a whole lot simpler.

> The inventor is still alive, and I have talked to him on the telephone a 
> couple of times.   For his advanced age, he is still quite sharp, and 
> remembers a lot of the challenges involved with trying to make a solid-state 
> electronic calculator that would fit on a (large) desktop using early 1960's 
> technology.

It would be neat to ask him about that MIT article.

paul