[cctalk] Re: New VCF Video bumper

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

First one. Sounds vintage, is not musically annoying like most of the others, 
and has a nice easter egg in it.
Marc

> On May 9, 2024, at 12:31 PM, John Herron via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Do you know who your demographic or age is that you're trying to attract to
> watch the videos?
> 
>> On Fri, May 3, 2024, 10:45 PM Jeffrey Brace via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> The Vintage Computer Federation is looking for a new bumper to add to the
>> front and back of all their new videos.
>> There are 7 different versions. Vote on the one that you like best!
>> 
>> https://forms.gle/Y9Qrj26xokeFXjub6
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yes the oscilloscope are your eyes and ears for electrons… 
Marc

> On May 1, 2024, at 11:44 PM, Dominique Carlier  wrote:
> 
> Hi Marc !
> 
> It should be so great if it was just the PSU, everything else is hyper 
> overkill in terms of complexity but on the multimeter all the voltages show 
> the correct values, including +15V and -15V (generated from the +24V and -24V 
> of the power supply).
> But is it possible that one of these currents, for example the stabalized +5V 
>  is 'parasitized' ? How can it be diagnosed? With an oscilloscope I suppose?
> 
> The interesting thing now is the lack of emergency retraction of the heads if 
> the power is cut during RUN mode. There is an unfuse +24V provided for this 
> purpose but it is present in the power supply. If that problem is common to 
> the others issues, this leads me to think that there is an issue at the 
> logical level, in this case the breakdown hypotheses are unfortunately 
> infinite (summing junction on SO board, servo positioner, SR board, sensors, 
> ...). If it's not common, it should be a dead capacitor concerning the 
> emergency retraction of the heads, and a dead amplifier transistor on the 
> heat sink board dedicated to the plus/minus (forward/reverse) servo 
> positioner, who knows ?
> 
> Dominique
> 
> 
>> On 2/05/2024 01:38, Curious Marc wrote:
>> Power supply problem?
>> Marc
>> 
 On Apr 30, 2024, at 8:58 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone
>>> 
>>> I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I don't 
>>> know where to look, it's so vast !
>>> 
>>> Here's the problem:
>>> When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously 
>>> deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head 
>>> Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The heads 
>>> "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency "BRR", and it 
>>> is infinite, the heads are never loaded and the drive never reaches READY.
>>> 
>>> At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or 
>>> something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive 
>>> unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they 
>>> continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode.
>>> Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a 
>>> priori excludes alignment problems.
>>> 
>>> Here is a video of that issue:
>>> 
>>> https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg
>>> 
>>> Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, it 
>>> does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem?
>>> I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even on 
>>> the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter).
>>> 
>>> If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head 
>>> stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive?
>>> 
>>> Thanks !
>>> 
>>> Dominique
>>> 

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Power supply problem?
Marc

> On Apr 30, 2024, at 8:58 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone
> 
> I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I don't 
> know where to look, it's so vast !
> 
> Here's the problem:
> When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously 
> deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head 
> Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The heads 
> "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency "BRR", and it is 
> infinite, the heads are never loaded and the drive never reaches READY.
> 
> At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or 
> something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive unloads 
> the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they continue to 
> reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode.
> Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a priori 
> excludes alignment problems.
> 
> Here is a video of that issue:
> 
> https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg
> 
> Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, it does 
> not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem?
> I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even on the 
> main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter).
> 
> If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head 
> stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive?
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> Dominique
> 

[cctalk] Re: Datapoint 2200 simulator - looking for more software.

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Awesome!
Marc

> On Dec 3, 2023, at 4:00 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I have an ongoing project to restore a Datapoint 2200 version II and in the
> process of doing so I created a small simulator for it to understand it
> better. The simulator is now in the condition that it runs the cassettes
> that I try on it quite well.
> 
> The simulator compiles on Macos and Linux.
> https://github.com/MattisLind/DP2200
> 
> A short movie clip when it is running:
> https://youtu.be/XfsMBhP13ww?si=CHpFKe8eecWjdxDC
> 
> Having a simulator for a 2200 if there is no software around is no point.
> There are some tapes on bitsavers.org and a couple of other collectors do
> have cassettes that can be read.
> 
> But is there anyone else out there that is sitting on tapes for a Datapoint
> 2200 (or 5500, 6000, 6600)?
> 
> Tapes can be read on a normal mono audio cassette tape recorder and fed
> into a PC which samples the signal, preferably at 44100 kHz with 16 bit
> resolution. It is important to not overdrive the input of the computer so
> that the signal becomes a square wave.
> 
> /Mattis

[cctalk] Re: Soviet tube/transistor/IC spec source

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Sweet. This encyclopedic! Thanks a lot!
Marc

> On Oct 2, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very cool, thanks for sharing! I didn't know such a tabulation existed!
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
> 
> --- Original Message ---
>> On Monday, October 2nd, 2023 at 13:12, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For those working with ex-Soviet equipment from the 60’s and 70’s here’s a 
>> remarkable resource: 
>> https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88935be001eb551b4c/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-6925b02fb6dcaa88935be001eb551b4c.pdf
>> 
>> I am astonished that I found it in this in the US National Bureau of 
>> Standards (today NIST) archives 
>> 
>> Tim N3QE

[cctalk] Re: Logic Analyzers - HP/Agilent 16700B or 1670G?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I have both, and I end up using the 1670G most of the time because it is so 
much more convenient. The acquisition cards on the 16xxx keep failing too.
Marc

> On Aug 20, 2023, at 12:43 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2023, 12:05 PM John H. Reinhardt via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hello all.  I looking around for a Logic Analyzer for doing (mostly) DEC
>> QBus/UniBus stuff.  Being the way I am I want something with enough lines
>> to handle the most of the signals so I'm guessing something with roughly
>> 80-ish channels.  I think that lets out all/most of the USB based LA.  I've
>> looked around and it seems the the HP/Agilent 16700 series (16700B/16702B)
>> are probably what I want.  I've also seen the 1670G which also seems quite
>> doable.  I've seen a lot of posts at the EEVblog and it seems I missed
>> possibly the golden age of 16700 LA by a few years price-wise.
>> 
>> What I'm wondering is if there is something specific I should be looking
>> for, or opinions on which LA is more suitable.  Or even if there is a
>> different make of LA to look for.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for your help
>> 
>> John H. Reinhardt
>> 
> 
> Where are you located? That can have a large impact on the cost of
> acquiring a large 16700-series logic analyzer. For example, I have more of
> those than I need in the Seattle area. A local deal might work out well,
> but if shipping is involved that can quickly get too expensive.
> 
> If bench space is limited, a 1670G takes up a lot less, and is completely
> self contained and easier to move around and set up. On the other hand, a
> 16700-series is more flexible, and if you have space to set up an external
> monitor you can see a lot more data on the screen at the same time without
> scrolling around.

[cctalk] Re: IBM 1410 FPGA Status

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Very impressive. Congratulations!
Marc

> On Jul 11, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Over the past couple of months I have been working on my FPGA implementation 
> of the IBM 1410 1960's era pre System/360 system again. I am pleased to share 
> that the CPU now passes a significant diagnostic, CU01, which tests almost 
> all of the instructions, and also tests I/O with overlap and the priority 
> feature (interrupts).  Also, it runs at generally the same speed as the 
> original machine (comparing the IBM estimates for 1000 passes), using the 
> same logic as the original machine (though no doubt optimized by the process 
> of taking in VHDL logic statements and turning combinatorial logic into 
> lookup tables (LUTs), and some additions of "D" flip flops to avoid race 
> conditions in latches and logic loops.)
> 
> (The speed is the same because its "oscillator" - crystal controlled in the 
> original - is now a clock divider/counter off of the FPGA chip clock.)
> 
> For more details, see
> 
> https://www.computercollection.net/index.php/ibm-1410-fpga-implementation/
> 
> Mostly the ALD (Automated Logic Diagram) data capture seems to have been very 
> accurate.  I really only had to do four things this year to get it to this 
> point:
> 
> - Make the necessary logic gate deletions / changes for configuration
>  option S40/$40 - 40K of core
> - Add the ability to transfer a core image from the PC support program
>  to the FPGA.
> - Fix some issues in the Assembly Channel because while almost all of
>  the ALDs are for a 1410 with the Accelerator feature, several pages of
>  the very important Assembly channel were for the base 1410 model.
> - Deal with a race condition during overlapped I/O
> 
> These are generally discussed in individual blog posts off the above link.
> 
> I really was quite happily surprised that when capturing the data on over two 
> hundred ALDs with over 10,000 logic gates, over 4,200 individual unique 
> signals, more than 12,000 signal names on individual ALDs, and more than 
> 32,000 interconnections that there were not a lot more problems than these.  
> (I may run into some as yet undiscovered errors involving the channels as I 
> add I/O devices, though).
> 
> I suppose that there were not more problems because for most of the 
> individual sheets and in many cases groups of sheets I wrote VHDL test 
> benches using the Intermediate Logic Diagrams (ILDs) as a guide, and of 
> course took considerable care during the data entry process from the ALDs, 
> checking connection counts on each logic block, for example.
> 
> The last post ("Off to the Races") on the aforementioned web page also 
> discusses the next expected steps: some more work on the PC/Console support 
> program, more diagnostic tests, other support program enhancements, and 
> figuring out how to go about I/O, especially since I don't have ALDs for the 
> 1414 I/O Synchronizers.
> 
> But I no longer have any doubts about the viability of this process, so long 
> as the FPGA logic clock is somewhere around 10x the logic clock of the 
> simulated machine.  (I expect to try and "push it" by speeding up the 1410 
> logic clock to see at what ratio of the FPGA clock to the CPU clock things 
> break down, as well).
> 
> JRJ

[cctalk] Re: VCF Southwest 2023 some highlights

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Very nice writeup!
Marc

> On Jun 26, 2023, at 5:06 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> VCF SW was this past weekend near Dallas, Texas.
> 
> Here are some highlights from my perspective.
> 
> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-southwest-2023/
> 
> 
> Most photos you can click to enlarge (Edge has bugs with WordPress, you may
> need to scroll up/down a little bit to get the click thing working)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve

[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

The cafeteria is open, there is a Starbucks and even a nice Italian across the 
street if you want to treat yourself. On Wednesdays we have a demo of the IBM 
1401 at 3 pm, and before that the restoration team works on it from 10:30 am on 
(it needs constant maintenance and repairs to keep it running).  I should be 
there. Come around and say hi! 
Google headquarters are up the road, worth a picture in front of the sign. Of 
course a stop at Anchor Electronics in Santa Clara if you are interested in 
vintage components. The slightly underwhelming Intel Museum in Santa Clara 
also. No more Weird Stuff, Halted and Excess Solutions unfortunately :-(
Marc

> On Mar 13, 2023, at 9:48 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I truly appreciate all the suggestions that I received for my computer 
> history museum visit this coming Wednesday including the food options and the 
> nearby areas. Some notes about the “old Silicon Valley”, the limited food 
> options, and some nearby technology shops being gone is sad, but it is what 
> it is. It is all an outcome of the new generation and the disregard for the 
> old. I guess the old Silicon Valley is is one big partial museum, and the new 
> are just the campuses of the big tech companies. Everything else is just now 
> virtual. I will still make the best out of the visit. Cheers!
> 
>  Thank you, again.  
> 
> Regards,
> Tarek Hoteit
> 
>> On Mar 12, 2023, at 9:28 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week. I 
>> always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else 
>> happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and 
>> anything else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)? 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit

Re: Unsubscribed from the list due to too many bounces

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks Adrian I feel better already :-)
Marc

> On May 17, 2022, at 8:35 PM, Adrian Stoness  wrote:
> 
> 
> its an issue with gmail according to jaywest dont think u can do anything 
> about it 
> its in his ballpark 
> theres a thread discussing the issue so ur not  alone 
> thread "Cctalk subscription disabled"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 10:26 PM Curious Marc via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> I have been auto-rejected from the list again, due to too many bounces, 
>> whatever this means. But I swear I have been a good boy and did not bounce 
>> too much! This is a plain vanilla gmail account by the way. Does anyone have 
>> any idea why this keeps happening? Anything I can do about it?
>> Marc

Unsubscribed from the list due to too many bounces

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I have been auto-rejected from the list again, due to too many bounces, 
whatever this means. But I swear I have been a good boy and did not bounce too 
much! This is a plain vanilla gmail account by the way. Does anyone have any 
idea why this keeps happening? Anything I can do about it?
Marc

Re: Bob Lucky

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks for the link. I met him when I was at Bell Labs. He was an outstanding 
technology speaker and writer, with a great sense of humor. His columns were 
hilarious and right in target. A written form of Dilbert for the technologist.
Marc

> On Apr 7, 2022, at 10:41 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I don't remember seeing this here, and not sure how many of you read his 
> articles, but:
> 
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/bob-lucky-obituary
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim Brain
> br...@jbrain.com  www.jbrain.com

Re: Core memory

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

You don’t strictly need an inhibit wire to write cores. You can write the core 
with just the addressing lines. The inhibit wire is just there to simplify the 
addressing electronics logic in early core memory, so you don’t need to have 
per core control of the current in the address lines when writing. You just do 
it wholesale: scan all address lines with current in one direction during 
reads, scan once again with current in the other direction during writes, with 
inhibit when needed.

You could certainly use the sense wire as an inhibit. But that gets impractical 
with a diagonal weave, because you’d have to know in which direction the 
inhibit works and reverse the inhibit current accordingly. And it’s different 
for each core depending on the direction the sense wire crosses the core. So it 
defeats the purpose of simplifying the control logic with an inhibit wire. 
Therefore I don’t think that scheme is used.

In practice, 3 wire systems that use the same wire for inhibit and sense (like 
some IBM core planes) have the sense go along the address lines, and use a half 
plane column shift to provide cancellation of the unwanted signal induced from 
the address line it is running along. We demonstrate such a 3 wire plane here: 
https://youtu.be/AwsInQLmjXc .

So in your plane, the sense wire is likely just used for reads, and the writes 
are done uniquely with the address wires, like I demonstrate here: 
https://youtu.be/7ozNMgx7WtQ

Marc

> On Apr 1, 2022, at 2:14 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2022-Apr-01, at 11:51 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
 On Apr 1, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk 
  wrote:
 On 2022-Apr-01, at 6:02 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>> 
 When I looked at that ebay listing of "glass memory" it pointed me to 
 another item,https://www.ebay.com/itm/265623663142 -- described as "core 
 rope memory".  Obviously it isn't -- it's conventional core RAM.  
 Interestingly enough, it seems to be three-wire memory (no inhibit line 
 that I can see).  It looks to be in decent shape.  No manufacturer marks, 
 and "GC-6" doesn't ring any bells.
>>> 
>>> Well, it would still work for 1-bit-wide words, so to speak. One wonders 
>>> what the application was.
>> 
>> I wonder if the sense wire was used as inhibit during write cycles -- that 
>> seems doable.  It would make the core plane simpler at the expense of more 
>> complex electronics.  With that approach, you have regular memory, not 
>> limited to 1 bit words.
> 
> Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but offhand I'm initially skeptical without 
> doing the math or some good vector diagrams, or seeing an example. With the 
> diagonal wire you're changing the current/magnetic sum vectors in direction 
> and magnitude. The question is coming up with a current that reliably 
> performs the cancellation function on the selected core of a bit-array while 
> reliably *not* selecting another core, while accounting for all the variation 
> tolerances in the array. 
> 
> While there's probably some value by which it would work in theory, I wonder 
> whether the diagonal wire would narrow the operating margins. From some stuff 
> I've seen, the hysteresis curves for cores weren't spectacularly square. With 
> the usual 3D-3wire scheme of a close parallel inhibit wire you have 
> 'cancellation by simplicity', you maximise the difference (cancellation) 
> influence on one wire while minimising it's sum influence on the other.
> 
> A related issue is the normal diagonal sense stringing (which this looks to 
> have) has the wire entering the cores from both directions relative to the 
> address wires, which is why sense amplifiers respond to pulses of both 
> polarity. If this diagonal wire is put to use as an inhibit wire, some logic 
> is needed to decide the direction of the inhibit current from the address, 
> though that may not be very difficult.
> 
> Some history of the 3-wire development might tell, whether inhibit was first 
> applied to a diagonal sense stringing or whether sense was first applied to 
> an adapted parallel-inhibit stringing. The real benefit of the 3-wire 
> development was getting rid of the diagonal stringing for manufacturing ease.
> 
> 
>>> There are a couple of Soviet core-rope memories up right now:
>>>https://www.ebay.com/itm/294558261336
>>>https://www.ebay.com/itm/294851032351
>> 
>> Neat looking stuff.  It doesn't look like core rope memory in the sense of 
>> the AGC ROM, nor in the sense of the Electrologica X1.  It looks more like 
>> the transformer memory used in Wang calculators that you documented in your 
>> core ROM paper.
> 
> Yes, (I was, perhaps lazily, slipping into the habit of referring to both 
> forms (of woven-wire ROM) as rope).

Re: HP 9915A failed 8048

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Awesome! Congrats to everyone involved!
Marc

> On Mar 28, 2022, at 12:24 PM, js--- via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 2022-02-25 16:09, js--- via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, folks.
>> 
>>   I've a HP 9915A computer with an interesting problem.   The motherboard 
>> utilizes a ceramic Intel D8048 chip.   The problem is that this 8048 has a 
>> crack right across the top middle of it, and half of the top of the chip has 
>> begun to separate.
>> 
>>  Powering up the machine as-is unsurprisingly results in no activity.   
>> HOWEVER, if I push firmly on the cracked area with my finger the machine 
>> starts to operate normally.   All appearances are that clamping down the 
>> separating piece of the chip re-establishes any broken wire connections 
>> within the chip.
>> 
>>   I've obtained a replacement P8048AH.   My question is: do these chips 
>> simply swap like a CPU, or -- as I fear -- is the 8048 a pre-programmed 
>> piece?More simply put, is this a repairable problem?  Or am I SOL?
>> 
>>   Any thoughts welcomed.
>> 
>> - John Singleton
>> 
> 
> 
> Hi, folks.   With the help of the extremely talented people here, the far 
> less talented me was able to repair this seemingly impossible problem and get 
> the 9915 functional.
> 
> The process was to:
> 
> 1) burn a new 8748 CPU with the 9915's 8048 ROM code.
>   I used a Data I/O 2900 for this purpose.
> 
> 2) remove the remnants of the original 8048 CPU
> 
> 3) install a new milled 40 pin socket
> 
> 4) install the 8748 into that socket and power-on test.
> 
> 
> Thanks to Paul Berger, Will Cooke, and Wayne S for their useful suggestions.
> 
> A very special thanks to Tony Duell for offering to go to great lengths to 
> help.
> 
> A very, very special thanks to Dave McGuire for having done all the hard work 
> in retrieving the 8048's code to begin with (which he had done already for 
> someone else), then providing the 8048 ROM code to me in hex format, plus 
> guidance on how to fix the problem all the way through.
> 
> - John S.

Re: simulation of an entire IBM S/360 Model 50 mainframe

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Ah, it was you Liam. Ken is enamored with the new title you bestowed on him. He 
will now be officially called: Master Ken, Hardware Boffin. 
:-)
Marc

> On Jan 27, 2022, at 11:54 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 17:20, Guy N. via cctalk  
> wrote:
>> 
>> This might be old news to a lot of people here, but I noticed a fun
>> article on The Register today:
> 
> Oh cool. Thanks for the link -- that's one of my stories. Glad to hear
> people enjoyed it. :-)
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Dominique,
Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the 
inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that 
does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one 
yourself like I did. Info on both here: 
https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR
Matc

> On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only works 
> in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send text in this 
> monster through a computer
> Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80
> 
> Dominique
> 
>> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- 
>> top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left 
>> side).
>> 
>> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those 
>> appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 
>> channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines 
>> (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are 
>> upper/lower case.
>> 
>>paul
>> 
 On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 
>>> bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs 
>>> upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I 
>>> guessed Baudot.
>>> 
>>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.
 
 That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
 Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the 
 figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other function 
 codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model.
 
 The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., 
 Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the 
 all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.
 
paul

Re: Overclocked TI Silent 703 at 1200 bauds?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yes. Doh. 8-1/2 inch rolls of thermal Fax paper on ½” core. Sold at Staples. $3 
a roll. Works like a charm. 
Marc

> On Nov 4, 2021, at 3:06 PM, Ron Pool via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> On that subject, can anyone recommend a source for the thermal paper used in 
>> the Silent?
> 
> I just use thermal fax paper that comes in rolls that are 8.5" wide and 
> (usually) 98' long.  100' or shorter rolls fit fine inside the Silent 700 
> terminals.  That paper is still being made and is widely available from lots 
> of places like Amazon and Staples.  I usually buy opened boxes off of eBay 
> where the box is cheap and only 5 out of 6 roll are left in the original box. 
>  But definitely first check Amazon and local office supply stores to make 
> sure you don't pay more for a shipped partial box from eBay than you would 
> for a full box at retail prices.
> 
> -- Ron
> 

Re: Overclocked TI Silent 703 at 1200 bauds?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yes, I have ruined a few printouts using the isopropanol method ;-) . On that 
subject, can anyone recommend a source for the thermal paper used in the Silent?
Marc

> On Oct 31, 2021, at 9:36 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 11:40 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
>  wrote:
> 
>> The THERMAL paper that I used for the Silent 700s was "white" and very
>> slowly changing to yellow or brown.  Didn't hold up very well to heat
>> and/or sunlight.
> 
> Another thing that ruins thermal printouts is propan-2-ol (isopropyl
> alcohol). It turn the paper black as if it has been heated.
> 
> Since I normally have a can of said solvent on my bench for cleaning
> disk drive heads, connectors, etc, I have to be careful if there's a
> thermal printer about.
> 
> -tony

Re: Overclocked TI Silent 703 at 1200 bauds?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yes, I tried switch #4 and that did not do it. I opened it up, no other obvious 
jumpers. The processor doesn’t even say TMS 7041, it’s a custom numbered part. 
Not that I am complaining, I am fine with my blazing fast gamer’s TI 703 with 
overdrive. I’m just surprised they did not label it anywhere on the machine or 
even change the product naming. Like TI 703 Turbo or something!
Marc

> On Oct 30, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Ron Pool via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I hadn't known about 1200 bps Silent 700s.  I just found a TI Silent
> 700/1200 on eBay and it is now on its way to me.  If I can figure out if/how
> it can toggle between 300 and 1200 bps, I'll let you know.
> 
> Meanwhile, I can tell you that a manual I have for a model 703 says that
> configuration switch 4 is "not yet used".  1 & 2 are for parity, 3 is for
> print width (80/132 columns).  Maybe switch 4 toggles between 300 and 1200.
> If you lift the smoky gray cover, you'll not only gain access to the roll of
> paper but also, just above the keyboard, an expansion slot on the left-hand
> side and the four DIP switches just to the right of the expansion slot.  The
> DIP switches are found below a small rectangular cutout in the terminal's
> plastic case.
> 
> On a model 703 I have there is a label under the paper roll that tells what
> the 3 working DIP switches do and tells some of the CMD key sequences that
> can be use on models 703, 707, and 709.  Apparently the same label was used
> for all three basic models.  But maybe a unit with a 1200 bps option has a
> label that lists a function for DIP switch 4 or a CMD key sequence for
> setting communications speed.
> 
> Another possibility is the auto-access cartridge that can go in the
> expansion slot.  The 700/1200 I have on the way to me includes an
> auto-access cartridge.  Maybe it allows choosing between 300 and 1200 bps?
> If you have an auto-access cartridge in your terminal, try some of the
> commands for it that are listed on the quick reference card
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/terminal/silent_700/2310610-0001_Silent_700_
> Auto-Access_Cartridge_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf .
> 
> If you figure out how to toggle between 300 and 1200 bps, please share the
> trick.
> 

Re: Terminal Emulator

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I use Teraterm too. Works both on Windoze and Mac. I like the ability to run 
scripts. 
Marc

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 5:51 PM, Lee Courtney via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> We use Teraterm at work - adequate, free, open-source(if that's important),
> meets our needs for embedded development across a wide variety of
> platforms.
> 
> YMMV,
> 
> Lee Courtney
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:57 AM Mike Katz via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I am looking for a good terminal emulator.  Not for connecting to older
>> computers serially but to connect with my embedded designs.
>> Do any of you have any recommendations.
>> 
>> I've been using Realterm for years but it's not very good.
>> 
>> I used UCON, hyper term, terra term, telix (going way back) and a few I
>> can't remember the name of.
>> 
>> Here are my needs:
>> 
>> 1.  Runs under Windows 10 (linux optionally)
>> 2.  Has user selectable baud rates (I use 500K baud frequently)
>> 3.  Can use any Windows Com Port.
>> 4.  Can send files as raw binary
>> 5.  Has X-modem built in (nice but optional)
>> 6.  Has some kind of basic VT-100 support
>> 7.  Can display both ascii characters and binary data has hex numbers,
>> preferably on alternate lines (hex above the ascii character like this:
>> 45 76 65 72 79
>>  EV   E   R   Y
>> 8.  Can send short manually entered strings in hex or ascii.
>> 9.  Can recognize protocols (based on start and/or end of text characters)
>> 10. Costs less than $100
>> 11.  Can Capture what comes in the port
>> 12.  Has local echo (when connected to systems that don't echo what you
>> type)
>> 13.  Has a large scroll back buffer.
>> 14.  Has programmable macro buttons or function keys.
>> 15.  Can handle removal and insertion of the TTL to Serial USB converter
>> without crashing.
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Lee Courtney
> +1-650-704-3934 cell

Re: Looking for an IBM 3803

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Excellent idea! I had not  thought about it. I’ll look into it. 
Marc

> On Sep 8, 2021, at 8:25 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
> As long as you don't need the full blower capacity, you can probably do
> the 3-phase-to-single-phase trick by using a capacitor from the third
> lead to either (which one will determine rotation direction) of the two
> other leads and feeding those leads with single-phase.   It's done very
> often here with 3-phase shop equipment acquired by residential
> hobbyists.  For motors, it's not critical, but it's not something that
> you'd want to do for electronics--the phase distortion rules that out.
> 
> --Chuck

Re: Looking for an IBM 3803

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yes, we are hoping that we can power the  blower with 3 phase and the rest 
directly from the 240V electric car circuit… Not sure if that can be rewired 
for that.
Marc

> On Sep 6, 2021, at 6:50 AM, Patrick Finnegan  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2021, 06:36 Curious Marc via cctalk  
>> wrote:
> 
>> I got both the 3420s and the 3808 from Sellam. On the restoration docket, 
>> now with a better chance thanks to the ALDs which I recently got from 
>> Gabriel himself. I scanned my 3420 ALDs and gave them to Gabriel in return. 
>> Biggest annoyance, besides humongous size and weight, is the amount of 3 
>> phase power required.
> 
> 
> From what I remember, the only thing that requires 3 phase in the whole 
> system is the blower motor in the 3420 drives. The rest are powered off of 
> single phase 200-240VAC.
> 
> The large 3 phase input on it 3803 is likely overkill for even a controller 
> and full string of 8 drives. It's easier to oversize things and have a 3x 
> safety margin, then deal with running close to the limits and risk any 
> problems from poorly installed site wiring.
> 
> Pat
> 
>> 

Re: Looking for an IBM 3803

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I got both the 3420s and the 3808 from Sellam. On the restoration docket, now 
with a better chance thanks to the ALDs which I recently got from Gabriel 
himself. I scanned my 3420 ALDs and gave them to Gabriel in return. Biggest 
annoyance, besides humongous size and weight, is the amount of 3 phase power 
required.
Marc

> On Sep 5, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 9/5/21 2:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 9/5/21 1:24 PM, Gabriel Nielson via cctalk wrote:
>>> I was digging through the internet and found a post where a 3803 was posted 
>>> for sale, would there happen to still be one available?Preferably a model 2
>>> Thanks,gcniel...@yahoo.com
>>> 
>> 
>> Aside from a couple of sales of 3420+3803 drives about 5-6 years ago,
>> about the only current sale is just the panel:
>> 
>> ttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153912466858?hash=item23d5e5ddaa:g:P8QAAOSw86ZeqMBo
>> 
> 
> Edit:  For that 5-6 year old combo, the seller was Sellam and his asking
> price was $3K.
> 
> --Chuck

Re: ISO Laserjet I/II/III firmware

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

My LaserJet 6MP is still going strong and is my main lab printer. I like it for 
retro work because it has AppleTalk capability. I plugged my Mac SE into the 
network and it automagically found it! Meanwhile Windows still doesn’t know 
it’s there unless you put its nose right on it ;-)
Marc

> On Aug 12, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 10:48 AM Al Kossow via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> I suspect interest in emulating them will die out once they get past the 
>> 68000 models.
> 
> I may still have a II, and I definitely still have at least one
> (functional) III and a 4Si
> 
> I still use my 4M/L all the time - Postscript + LocalTalk + IEEE1284.
> It's a great little printer.
> 
> -ethan

Re: Free punched card deck machine, suitable to make reader and punch

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Carl how big and heavy is it? I thought it was way bigger. I might take it. 
Someone will have to help load/unload in the car due to my injured back...
Marc

> On Jul 4, 2021, at 10:29 AM, Carl Claunch via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> I bought this years ago for a planned project to create a card reader and
> card punch for a mainframe replica, using this machine that was designed to
> reproduce decks of punched cards. It is very heavy and sturdy.
> 
> It has two input hoppers and two stackers, one for the source cards and one
> for the punched copies. The punched head is cooled by ammonia gas,
> indicating that it was designed to operate at a healthy rate of cards per
> minute if it needed that kind of cooling. A keypunch, by comparison can
> punch cards at about 20 cpm with no need for cooling, so I estimate this
> could run at hundreds of CPM.
> 
> This is ideal for a hobbyist would would convert it so that it reads cards
> into some kind of mini, mainframe or other computer device, with the other
> side able to punch contents from the same computer onto blank cards. This
> works with the standard IBM '5081' style 80 column punched cards.
> 
> I am moving in 12 days and would need to send this to the scrap yard if
> someone isn't interested. I can hold it here until July 12th or 13th
> latest. You will need to bring help to move it as it weighs a few hundred
> pounds.
> 
> Pictures at -
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sys/d/los-altos-free-punched-card-reader-punch/7346150919.html

Re: Disk drives, keypunch offered in SF bay area:

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

That must be Carl’s. He is lightening up his collection in anticipation of a 
move. He has some great items. He just sold a fully functioning HP 1000F system 
in two racks.
Marc

> On Jun 13, 2021, at 10:23 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> This fellow-s been posting on VCF; thus far, he's offered a pair of
> Perkin-Elmer disk drives and a USB-modified 029 keypunch.  Stuff is
> pickup-ony by July 8.
> 
> The drives:
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sop/d/los-altos-perkin-elmer-interdata-vt/7336069902.html
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> 

Re: PDP-11 SPACEWAR running again!

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Nice! 
Marc

> On May 10, 2021, at 11:26 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Today I finally got the SPACEWAR version for PDP-11/10 running again on my
> PDP-11/05 with AR11 board. I played a couple of rounds together with my
> daughter. She was better than me. Quite hard game IMHO.
> 
> https://youtu.be/fTiHRAKjyho
> 
> Bill Seiler and Larry Bryant wrote this version in 1974 and submitted it to
> DECUS. It was believed to have been lost to history. But Bill had saved the
> printouts from the PAL11 assembler. He sent me scans of these printouts as
> pdf files. I then transcribed it into source files and iterated several
> times in SimH to get a clean build and link. I got some help from people
> here doing OCR on some files. But the lines mostly confused the OCR process
> so a lot of errors was introduced. It turned out that it was easier to just
> transcribe the whole lot by hand than finding and correcting errors.
> 
> The AR11 is somewhat different to the AD01 and AA11 that Bill and Larry
> used. AA11 has a 12 bit 2’s complement D/A while the AR11 is only 10 bits
> and not 2’s complement. I did some patches and eventually got everything
> right.
> 
> I also connected a couple of analogue joysticks. The fire button is just
> short ciruiting the viper of the potentiometer to the 5V supply lead. The
> screen is a HP1332A vector screen.
> 
> All the transcribed code, AR11 patches and build instructions are available
> on github. https://github.com/MattisLind/SPACEWAR
> 
> It should be possible to adapt it to orher types of A/D and D/A hardware if
> anyone wishes to do so. However the gameplay might be harder when running
> on a faster PDP-11?
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> /Mattis

Re: Motor generator

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

The IBM 7090 used a motor generator, IBM model 7618 apparently
http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/7090-PowerSupplyControl
Marc

> On May 4, 2021, at 5:03 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 05/04/2021 06:06 PM, Donald via cctalk wrote:
>> In the deep recesses of my mind I seem to remember something about S/360
>> machines using a motor generator.
>> If I am right was this to create a stable power source at a certain
>> frequency or voltage?
> Nope.  I know the 360/50 and 360/65 used a "converter-inverter" that 
> converted 208 3-phase
> to about 280 V DC, then inverted it with a 4-SCR inverter feeding a resonant 
> transformer to
> create 120 V 2.5 KHz regulated single-phase sine wave power.  All the 
> critical loads in the CPU ran off this power.  Notably, the I/O power 
> sequencer and console lamps power supply did not run off this power.  The 
> converter-inverter made an absolutely HORRIBLE whine that could be heard 20+ 
> feet from the back of the CPU even in a very noisy machine room.
> 
> The only "360" machine I know of that used 415 Hz was the Model 195, although 
> I can guess that
> the 360/85 used 415 Hz also, as it was essentially the prototype of the 
> 370/165.
> 
> The 370/145 used an internal motor/generator set in the back of the CPU 
> cabinet to produce 120 V 415 Hz 3-phase power.  Larger 370's generally were 
> provided with UPS's instead of M/G sets to create the 415 Hz power.
> 
> Also, the 709X series ran off 400 Hz from a motor/generator set.
> 
> The 360/50 and /65, at least, were pretty sensitive to noise and short 
> dropouts in the mains supply.
> The 370's with the MG sets rode through pretty severe power dips with no 
> effect at all, until the disk drives and tape drives went offline.
> 
> Jon

Re: 920M - an European contemprary of the Apollo Guidance Computer

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Quite impressive indeed! I did not know of these machines.
Marc

> On May 3, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctech 
>  wrote:
> 
> ooo thanks for sharing
> 
>> On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 1:50 PM Dr. Erik Baigar via cctech <
>> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Some additional remarks: The 920M is par of the 900 Series from
>> Elliott (later Elliott Automation, GEC Marconi Avionics, BAe Systems)
>> 
>> ...maybe interesting to note, that apart from the 18bit 920M and
>> related machines, there is a series of 12 bit ones which have a
>> simmilar (but not identical) instruction set.
>> 
>> ...even one member of the family had 13 bits.
>> 
>> ...these machines where used in applications, where accuracy was
>>less important (autothrottle compputers, air data systems) and
>>size/weight/power consumption was paramount.
>> 
>> 
>> Sorry, by accident the footer from my work email was with the
>> first posting - all the project is entirely hobby work and not
>> related to the business I am working for...
>> 
>> That is my private signature ;-)
>>> 
>>>   ''~``
>>>  ( o o )
>>> +.oooO--(_)--Oooo.--+
>>> | Dr. Erik Baigar Inertial Navigation & |
>>> | e...@baigar.de   .oooO  Vintage Computer  |
>>> | www.baigar.de(   )   Oooo.  Hobbyist  |
>>> +---\ ((   )+
>>> \_)) /
>>>   (_/
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: hp 9145 capstan replacement

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I tired several methods which worked to some extent (afore mentioned silicone 
tubes, shrink wrap, eBay bought molded rubber  overwraps, machined grooves and 
add O-rings), but now I just strip my capstans clean and coat them with 
plasti-dip. Methods in shown my various videos (like here 
https://youtu.be/cTZCD4OXETk ). Only plastidip and o-rings have been durable 
enough in the long run, and plasti-dip is easier. I have not done a capstan 
this large though. There are also some folks out there that will also 
commercially recoat a capstan with correctly molded and vulcanized rubber.
Marc

> On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 4/23/21 10:21 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 4/23/21 9:53 AM, Plamen Mihaylov via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Did anyone change the hp 9145 streamer capstan ?
>>> What parts do you use?
> 
> black norprene tubing, cut with a razor blade with the
> tubing over a wooden dowel
> 

Re: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Bill,

Misprinted characters could also come from a shoe not set properly on a rail, 
or the print head needing oiling. I had both problems on mine. I think it’s 
this video here https://youtu.be/x_Di7KpHubc . You need to remove the carriage, 
which can be done without removing the printer.

Also the H piece is a pain in the arse. Note that there is a direction to it, 
it’s not symmetric. Pay attention of which direction the long side is when you 
remove it, and make sure to put it back the same way. 

Also one of the side plates in between which the H is held has a spring, the 
other does not. To get it out (and back in), you want to push the H and 
compress that spring, using a long screwdriver in the slot of the H made just 
for that. Should be easy enough.

Putting it back is the tough part. I eventually was able to do it in seconds 
using a long pair of forceps to hold the H in the correct position, and the 
aforementioned long screwdriver to do the pushing. With screwdriver alone it’s 
possible but very frustrating and takes many trials.

Marc

> On Apr 13, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Bill Degnan via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 2:19 AM steven--- via cctech 
> wrote:
> 
>> Bill said
>>> I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer
>>> from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33.  I need to get to the underside of
>>> the printer levers so I can re-align them.  I am getting incorrect
>>> characters when I type over half of the keys.  I can see that a few
>> levers
>>> are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them
>>> properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to
>>> the underside.  I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that
>>> connects the keyboard to the printer.
>> 
>> This video, Part 2 of a series by Jerry Walker seems to cover removing the
>> keyboard
>> from the printer pretty thoroughly, including how to take out the H piece:
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VoPIp_wd4
>> 
>> Also I think Marc's videos cover it too.
>> 
>> Steve.
>> 
> 
> Thanks.  I watched Marc's videos to understand how to fix after removing
> the keyboard.
> 
> Part 2 of Jerry Walker's set does have useful info.  Thanks for saving me
> some reasearch time.
> 
> Bill
> 
>> 

Re: DEC pin

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I’ll blame it on Kyle and Fritz, I could not resist…

https://curiousmarcs-store.creator-spring.com/listing/VAXinated

 

Marc

 

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 17:50 Fritz Mueller via cctalk 

wrote:

 

 

https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102682110

 

Timely!

 

   --FritzM.

 

 

Thank you! It was a hard thing to search for. I kept getting all of these

other results, for some odd reason... "Did you mean...?" No, actually I

didn't!

 

Kyle

 

Re: head alignment tape

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Can’t see the web page, it’s blocked. But yes, I could definitely use an 
alignment taoe.
Marc

> On Mar 30, 2021, at 4:02 AM, Jos Dreesen via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this head alignment tape need saving ?
> 
> 
> https://www.tutti.ch/de/vi/zuerich/computer-zubehoer/komponenten-zubehoer/5-stk-vintage-computer-tapes-memorex-pericomp-etc/43582741
> 
> 
> I'd be inclined to think that the alignment tape would suffer to same issues 
> as all old tapes, but then this is rare enough to be mentioned here.
> 
> 
> Jos
> 

Re: looking for egcs for PowerPC BeOS R4

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I can ask Jean-Louis Gassée if that helps. Let me know if you want me to try.
Marc

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I know it exists, or existed, as there are references all over to it from
> the skeletal remains of various BeWare mirrors. However, the package itself
> has disappeared. The Intel version is marginally easier to find but if anyone
> knows where the *PowerPC* one is (I'll take R3 or R4) please advise.
> 
> I guess, since I've got mwcc on it, I could try to reconstruct it, but I
> don't know if I would have all the BeOS-specific changes.
> 
> -- 
>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
> --
>  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm still right. 
> ---

Re: UNIVAC

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

We have had this guy harassing the Computer History Museum, then all 
unsuspecting restorers under the false pretense of doing computer materials 
history research. In the end we understood he was trying to find out if 
asbestos was used in the machinery or buildings that were used to make the IBM 
1401. We believe he is trying to find a sleazy way to sue all the computer 
makers that have made computers in the past. When it became clear what he was 
doing, we told him to stop harassing us and contact the CHM legal people. Never 
heard of him again. 
Marc

> On Jan 25, 2021, at 8:13 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I do not know this guy, this came through my site, but if you do have info
> that you think he might find useful and would like to share please contact
> CECIL the Specific.
> 
> VintageComputer.net Inquiry Contact Information Name: CECIL CRAIN
>Email: ccrain@rgoldlegal-got-com Phone: 4157869527
> - Comments:
>I'm looking for any information about Bakelite insulating
> materials and phenolic resins used in Univac DCT products manufactured
> in the Salt Lake City facility from 1970 to 1978.
> VintageComputer.net
> ---
> 
> 
> Bill

Re: Bendix G-15 and Control Data 160 console on ebay

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

The LCM had a beautiful one in pretty advanced phases of restoration. They had 
replaced the supplies with modern ones. It’s pretty spectacular steampunk 
machine!
Marc


> On Jan 6, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 6 Jan 2021, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
> 
>>> I hope it ends up in a proper museum and hopefully it can be
>>> displayed in running condition.
>> 
>> The Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA has one, but it's not
>> in operating order.I don't know whether they have a mag tape drive.
> 
>   The VCF museum at Infoage in NJ also has a G-15 on display. Not operational.
> 
> http://q7.neurotica.com/IMG_5176.JPG
> 
> 
> Mike Loewenmloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
> Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: tty and video displays

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

For these interested on how it looked, I posted a picture of all the characters 
created by the HP 2641 APL ROM dumps here: 
https://www.curiousmarc.com/computing/hp-264x-terminals (somewhere down in the 
middle of the page). ROM dumps were from Al Kossow I believe (thanks Al).
Marc


> On Dec 14, 2020, at 9:00 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Now I want to know if you have a list of the Burroughs APL
> overstrikes, since HP included many more overstrike characters in the
> HP 2641A than the ones that they needed for APL\3000, including (or so
> I'm lead to believe) all the Burroughs extended I/O quad overstrikes,
> presumably to maximize the market for the terminal and/or because they
> thought they might implement the same functionality at some point. So
> it would be interesting to know what was actually missing.
> 
> The overstrike character ROM for the HP 2641A includes 63 characters,
> but (IIRC) only something like 21 are used in APL\3000.
> 
> P.S. My HP 2641A emulation will be in the next official MAME release
> thanks to F.Ulivi who merged it into his existing HP 2645A driver and
> got it submitted upstream.
> 
> G.
> 
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 10:28 PM Stan Sieler via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That meant that we couldn't use the terminal at Burroughs, because our APL
>> had a few overstrikes that weren't in the table.

Re: HP 3000, APL\3000, the HP 2641A APL Display Station, and stuff.

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Bravo!
Marc

> On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> As some people here are aware, I have spent probably too much time this 
> summer
> hacking on J. David Bryan's excellent Classic HP 3000 simulator and trying to
> build up the ultimate classic 1980s HP 3000 system (virtually speaking).
> 
> I started with the MPE V/R KIT that's widely available and expanded that into 
> a
> 5x120MB HP 7925 disc system and configured things like the system directory
> size and all the system tables to make a fully functional multi-user server.
> 
> I then set about collecting as much old MPE software as I could find, which
> included Keven Miller's collection of the old Contributed Software Library 
> tapes
> which were conveniently available in SIMH format. This is a huge trove of cool
> stuff including most of the classic mini/mainframe games (Dungeon, Warp,
> Advent, etc., etc.) and even a little game called DRAGONS that was written in
> 1980 by a guy named Bruce Nesmith when he was in college and he used it
> to get a job at TSR and went on to write parts of many classic D products
> and eventually landed at Bethesda where among other things he was the
> lead designer for another little game called The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. I 
> was
> able to track Bruce down and give him a copy of the system with his 40 year
> old game running on it. The CSL tapes also include other amazing goodies
> that people developed and gave away over the years, including a FORTH and
> LISP, as well as most of the system and utility programs that people used to
> run their 3000 shops. It's quite fun to explore.
> 
> I was curious how far we could push the 3000 simulator, so I hacked all
> the memory bank registers to be six bits instead of four bits, and we
> now have a simulated HP 3000 Series III that supports 8MB of memory, 4x
> more than any physical system ever did. I started trying to do the same thing
> for giant disc drives, but MPE turned out to have too much knowledge of
> what the supported disc models look like to make it practical. Bummer.
> 
> Since I met my first HP 3000 in 1980 (40 years ago this month), people would
> talk about what was probably the most rare and exotic HP software subsystem
> ever produced, APL\3000. APL on the 3000 was a project started at HP Labs
> in Palo Alto in the early 1970s. They were likely motivated by the success IBM
> was having with mainframe APL timesharing services. This would be the first
> full APL implementation on a "small" (non-mainframe) computer. It would be the
> first APL with a compiler (and a byte-code virtual machine to execute the
> compiled code), it would include an additional new language APLGOL (APL
> with ALGOL like structured control statements), and it managed to support
> APL workspaces of unlimited size through a clever set of system CPU
> microcode extensions that provided a flat 32-bit addressing capability (on
> a 16-bit machine where every other language was limited to a 64KB data
> segment).
> 
> Because APL required these extra special CPU instructions that you got as
> a set of ROM chips when you bought the $15,000 APL\3000, and because
> APL ultimately failed as a product (another story in itself) and thus HP never
> implemented these instructions on their later HP 3000 models, I never saw
> it run on a real HP 3000, but over the years we talked about wouldn't it be
> cool to find a way to get APL running again.
> 
> With assistance and moral support from Stan Sieler and Frank McConnell
> and others, I was ultimately able to reverse-engineer the behavior of the
> undocumented ten magic APL CPU instructions needed to get it to run and
> implement them as part of the MPE unimplemented instruction trap and now
> APL\3000 runs again for the first time in ~35 years. Somewhat ironically, this
> implementation method could have been used back in 1980 as I didn't
> actually end up changing the hardware simulation code at all, and it should
> also run (if a bit slowly) on any physical classic architecture 3000.
> 
> So that was cool and all, but what is APL without all the weird overstruck
> characters and whatnot? APL\3000 supports the use of plain ASCII terminals
> through blecherous trigraphs like "QD for the APL quad character, but this
> is hardly satisfying. So the quest was on to find a solution. Back in 1976 
> when
> APL\3000 was released, there was a companion HP terminal in the 264x line,
> the HP 2641A APL Display Station, which was basically an HP 2645A with
> special firmware and APL character set ROMs that supported all the APL
> special characters as well as overstrikes (the terminal would take 
> XY
> and lookup to see if it had a character to represent Y overstriking X and if
> so it would show that on the display, and if that got transmitted to the host 
> it
> would convert it back into the original three character overstriking 
> sequence).
> 
> I briefly looked into the idea of hacking QCTerm or Putty or something, 

Re: IBM 3270 compatible terminal connected to Hercules IBM mainframe emulator.

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Awesome!

Marc

 


Reply-To: "Mattis com>" , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 


 

I have been working on a project for some time to connect a IBM3270

compatible Alfaskop terminal with its IBM 3274 compatible cluster

controller to the Hercules mainframe emulator.

 

Yesterday I eventually succeeded. I was able to login to TSO on my Hercules

system that ran MVS 3.8j.

 

Here are a couple quick video clips:

 

https://youtu.be/H1Sxt7xjn4Y

 

https://youtu.be/CFfB3yCN9OI

 

/Mattis

 

Re: Alto II keyset connector plug identification

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

We had the same problem. It’s a DE-19 connector, fits in the same envelope has 
a DB-9, but 3 rows instead of 2. You can see in this video right around here: 
https://youtu.be/GMp5EAq-Elo?t=541  . ITT-canon used to make these. You can 
look them up on eBay, which is where we found ours. Make sure you don’t get a 
two row DB-19, which is a completely different animal.
Marc

> On Aug 18, 2020, at 8:15 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Would anyone be able to identify the 19 pin connector used on the Alto II 
> keyset?
> Shown in the second photo on 
> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X124.82C
> 
> The Xerox engineering doc (209962B_Alto_II_Assembly_Keyset.pdf) has it as P/N 
> DE51218-1 if I interpret it correctly.
> 
> I've looked for a while and the closest I can find appears to be Mouser p/n 
> 2DEF19P
> The cost of 136 USD (each!) is more than I (and perhaps everyone else) would 
> really like to pay, and that's only for
> the male end.
> 
> Ideally I would like a datasheet on this original connector if possible, to 
> know the pin-pin spacing and the pressed metal
> surround dimensions.
> 
> I've just ordered small trial quantities of screws, microswitches, e-clips, 
> nutserts, rods and so on for my keyset
> lookalikes/workalikes. Also about to start the key mapping to F5-F9 using a 
> popular small SOC board, which is small enough
> to be inside a custom printed shell that the keyset plugs into.
> That is, the 3-row 19-pin female connector side which goes through to USB.
> 
> I was thinking there's no reason it shouldn't be able to work using the 
> original connector with a real keyset-less Alto,
> should any such animal be lurking out there. Hence looking at the feasibility 
> of placing in a 19 pin male-female
> connector arrangement rather than the fallback of straight-through to USB.
> 
> The whole thing is still at prototype stage so even if it doesn't work out, 
> well I will at least have a bunch of additions
> to my nuts/bolts/fasteners/switches stash.
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> 
> Steve.
> 

Re: Hp 21mx loader rom set

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks a lot. Anyone wants me to dump the DS/1000 rev 1826 ROMs or are these 
already available?

What’s the CBL ROM? The one that’s on the cable interface card?

Marc

 

From: cctech  on behalf of 
"cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: "J. Bryan" , "cct...@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Monday, June 29, 2020 at 2:19 PM
To: "cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Hp 21mx loader rom set

 

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 22:20, CuriousMarc via cctech wrote:

 

I also have a 91740-80033/34/35 set which I don't know what it is. Does

anyone know? 

 

Those are DS/1000 revision 1826.

 

Page 3-130 of the HP "Communicator/1000 for Software Update 6.0" 

(5951-6201, December 1992) has a full list of the DS/1000 ROMs and 

revisions, as follows:

 

  91740-80001/02/03/16 -- Rev. 1740

  91740-80018/19/20/17 -- Rev. 1813

  91740-80033/34/35/48 -- Rev. 1826

  91740-80049/50/51/48 -- Rev. 1913

  91740-80064/65/66/48 -- Rev. 2003 (bad ROMs; withdrawn)

  91740-80067/68/69/48 -- Rev. 2003 (good ROMs)

  91740-80070/71/72/48 -- Rev. 2540 (adds 7974 loader; no DS change)

 

(The first three ROMs in each entry are the microcode ROMS; the fourth is 

the CBL ROM.)

 

Pages 3-104 through 3-136 of that document give the firmware revisions of 

all of the HP products then in support.

 

 

Anyhow, looking at the ROMs and dates, I suspect these are E/F

microcode only and would not work on the 21MX. 

 

All of the above are E/F-Series only.

 

  -- Dave

 

 

Re: Future of cctalk/cctech - text encoding

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

>>> Peter Coghlan wrote:
>>> Does anyone use ASCII anymore?
>> 
>> I read and write my email with Emacs running in a terminal emulator.
>> I rarely need anything beoynd codepoint 126.
> 
> I vote we move the list to an Exchange server behind a SSL VPN and mandate 
> the use of Outlook, then force all messages to be in quoted-printable 
> encoding. This way nobody “wins” and everyone is equally miserable. It’s only 
> fair.

+1 on the Exchange server. You might even be able to have more than 2 people 
connected to it at the same time without crashing, if you put enough admins on 
the problem.

But I would strongly suggest that we limit it to using characters from the 
Baudot set. If not they don’t print right on my 1930 Teletype.

Also Darwin recently wrote a paper about us, and revoked his theory of 
evolution. 

Unlike the God-awfull Yahoo Groups, Groups.io works OK for the other lists I 
follow. Meaning it’s functional and tolerable, and only moderately infuriating. 
But it is certainly not as clean and efficient as this list by a good margin. 
It would be good if we could preserve this.

Maybe evolve to the use of pictures or attachments, just to prove Darwin wrong? 
Limited to ASCII art only pictures, of course.

Marc

Re: Future of cctalk/cctech

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

> The one thing I would change here is removal of the restriction on 
> attachments.

> Well, two things.. Getting rid of the cctalk/cctech split as well.

 

Amen on that. The first one in particular. As simple as that and you’ve gotten 
yourself a very functional yet efficient system.

Marc

 

Re: Building an IBM 3270 terminal controller

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Nice work.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Liam Proven , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Friday, May 29, 2020 at 9:02 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Building an IBM 3270 terminal controller

 

https://ajk.me/building-an-ibm-3270-terminal-controller

 

-- 

Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven

Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com

Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven

UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

 

Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks!
Marc

> On May 2, 2020, at 4:49 AM, David Collins via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> I've pulled together details of the controller used with an HP2748 paper 
> tape reader to dump a bunch of tapes from the HP Computer Museum's collection 
> with the help of J. David Bryan.
> 
> The details are at this link..
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KaJkVgYzPusJN9tLf4IaSIa104fvLhUs
> 
> The unit and Arduino code are both pretty rough and ready and I'm sure can be 
> improved - but they served their purpose!
> 
> Hope it is of use to others...  
> 
> Now to get those new tape files published...
> 
> David Collins
> www.hpmuseum.net
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: David Collins  
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2020 7:34 AM
> To: J. David Bryan ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
> 
> Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
> 
> Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and 
> schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was indeed 
> designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could be adapted 
> to any similar reader. 
> 
> David Collins
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>>> On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote:
>>> 
>>> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. 
>> 
>> David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed 
>> reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection.  He used a 
>> 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce 
>> plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes.  
>> We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary 
>> files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes 
>> containing relocatable or absolute binary object data.  The resulting 
>> files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be 
>> punched back into physical paper tapes if desired.
>> 
>> -- Dave
>> 
> 

Re: Facit N4000 Schematic

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Would love to see it, I have such a machine in the queue for restoration.
Marc

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 5:49 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> From time to time there are posts here about the Facit N4000 paper
> tape punch/reader unit. The one that looks like a Facit 4070 with a
> tape reader on the front (in fact the punch mechanism is much the same
> as that in the 4070).
> 
> I have reverse-engineered mine and traced out the schematics. Of
> course it's one of my hand-drawn ones but I think it's mostly legible.
> If anyone wants it I am happy to send out a copy (but as ever I'd
> rather send it out once and have somebody else pass it on)
> 
> -tony

Re: tape baking

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Agreed. They sure are pressed in, then riveted in for good measure. You’d have 
to drill them out first. Not an easy modification. 
Marc

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 2:18 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 4/29/20 10:01 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
>> Or replacing the posts with ones machined from Teflon or Delrin?
> 
> The posts are staked in. You might be able to make tiny rollers to go over 
> the pins
> Their working diameter isn't super critical
> 

Re: tape baking

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I see the tape sticking to posts syndrome in my limited experience with HP QIC 
tapes also (DC100 / DC2000). The best I have come up with is wipe the posts 
with isopropanol. But I had not thought of lubricating them for a 1 time read, 
interesting idea. Or replacing the posts with ones machined from Teflon or 
Delrin?
Marc

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 4/28/20 11:47 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> I'm a bit surprised that this is even a "thing" in the audio business.
>> Restorers have been baking audio tapes for a long time.
> 
> That is acknowledged in the slides, isn't it?
> 
> "Thermal Baking: A popular, poorly understood remedy"
> 
> "Most common remediation (successfully used for decades)"
> 
> "No consistent baking procedures - to this day audio tape users argue about 
> about why it works."
> 
>> Isopropanol does not clean the sticky deposits from equipment--you must
>> use a stronger solvent.  Acetone, Perc or MEK generally does the trick.
> 
> I am trying to read a bunch of late 80s QIC-24 tapes (Sun/Computervision 
> install media). In addition to the normal QIC band problem, I am seeing 
> problems with the tape sticking on the metal posts that the tape goes around 
> to change direction towards the reels. Should I try wiping the posts with 
> acetone or wiping the tape with cyclomethicone? Should I be baking the tapes? 
> If so, what is a safe way to bake QIC cartridges?
> 
> alan

Re: soviet resistor identification help and maybe lamps?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Adrian
Congrats on your panel! It is very impressive!
On the Russian resistors I saw, the value was what is written on it. If you 
can’t measure them, maybe there is some conformal coating or corrosion on the 
leads? You’d need to scratch that off.
For the lamps, it might be time to invest in a variable power supply. Usually I 
start low (3V) and go up from there. The IBM ones are meant to be 
under-voltaged - at their voltage rating they are not glowing very bright. 
Marc

> On Mar 8, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> not seeing anything els other then the 620
> hard to get any decent shots of them with out a macro lens though
> 
> as for the lamps if i wanted to test them one at a time would i just give
> them 12V directly? or would it be lower dont have a variable power supply
> atm just an old pc one
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 1:44 AM Holm Tiffe  wrote:
>> 
>> Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>>> trying to identify these soviet resistors anyone familiar with how they
>>> marked them i see 620 on these ones for the panel bulbs
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/49633358106/in/dateposted-public/
>>> 
>>> want to test all the lamps with power but i dont know where to start with
>>> testing.
>>> 
>>> i see markings for 220V on the power feed plug
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/49621260392/in/dateposted-public/
>>> 
>>> bulbs
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/49623473996/in/dateposted-public/
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/49623475146/in/dateposted-public/
>> 
>> Not mutch to see on your pictures..better photos?
>> 
>> The Lamps seems to be neon lampes and at 220V the only  resitor volue
>> that makes sense and has a 620 in it is 620K.
>> The resistors could be labeled with 620k or witn M620.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Holm
>> 
>> --
>>  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
>> Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
>> i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741
>> 
>> 

Re: Good picture of a S360.

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yeah, a 360/50. When all the tapes are organized and color matched to the 
computer, you know it’s just a photo-op of a fake data center, or at best a 
real one with many hours of preparation for a beauty shot. Nice picture though!
Marc

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 8:13 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/3/20 7:24 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>>> From Imgur. The question: How the heck can you wear stiletto heels in a
>>> data center?
>>> 
>>> https://i.imgur.com/rakM62J.jpg
>> 
>> Marketing models.  Too clean.
> 
> At least I finally know what the tapes that went in those cases looked like. 
> :-)  I have at least a couple of the cases that came out of Tektronix 40+ 
> years ago.
> 
> Zane
> 
> 
> 

Re: 4054 in Sacramento

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Congrats!
Marc

> On Feb 26, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2/26/2020 1:47 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2/26/20 11:56 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 26.02.20 20:43, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
 https://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-Model-4054A-ALL-IN-ONE-Microcomputer-Vintage/372966927909
 
 good price, it's BIG though..
 
>>> Would have loved to pick that up
>> I wonder who got it?
>> 
>> 
> I got it. It has the color enhanced dynamic graphics option. Green phosphor 
> for the stored image and orange/red for the
> write-through graphics. I have a parts unit with the special CRT but it's 
> missing many boards. I hope I can get this one
> running.
> 
> Bob
> 
> -- 
> Vintage computers and electronics
> www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
> www.decmuseum.org
> 

Re: Sperry SP-425-08 Display - Datasheet?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Anders,

I got the schematics of the driver circuitry from the HP 59304A documentation. 
You should be able to replicate it. Will send you in separate email.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Anders Nelson , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Sperry SP-425-08 Display - Datasheet?

 

Wow, thanks for all the info! I'd love to see examples of driving circuitry

if it's not too much trouble. I've made PCBs and such before so aside from

potentially jolting myself I'm up to the challenge.

 

Anything I produce (code, schematics/PCBs) will be posted to my blog as

open-source material.

 

Thanks again,

 

Anders

 

On Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 8:34 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk 

wrote:

 

On 2020-Jan-01, at 2:42 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

> I snagged one of these Nixie-like displays (from a calculator I assume)

and

> I'd like to light it up. Does anyone know where I might find the

datasheet

> for it? Google hasn't turned up anything.

> 

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/264110638970

> 

> Any help is appreciated!

 

 

7-segment multiplexed multi-digit gas-discharge display.

 

Those Sperry types weren't very prevalent, I'm not surprised you haven't

found a datasheet.

 

I'm being a little presumptuous in specifying gas-disharge, it certainly

appears to be, but the ebay pics are a little small.

 

There was another series of GD displays from Sperry, and another from

Beckman, which were more prevalent.

 

Assuming it is GD:

 

I have an example of one that appears to be of similar construction to

yours in this calculator:

 http://madrona.ca/e/eec/calcs/SanyoICC83.html

Given yours says made in Japan, I wonder if they be from the same OEM.

I can send the schematic if you wish, for an example of drive circuitry.

It needs a little reformatting and conversion to pdf first, so let me know

if interested.

 

I have other calculators and schematics using the Beckman displays

(7-segment, multiplexed, multi-digit, gas-discharge).

They could also be comparitive examples for drive circuitry.

 

Multiplexed gas discharge displays could be a little finicky to drive, to

keep down anomylous ghosting and partial ignition.

 

In the absence of a datasheet, your first task would be to distinguish the

digit anodes from the segment cathodes.

You might be able to do it visually by looking at the internal

construction.

Otherwise experimentation with two probes connected to a 150-200V power

supply with a series limiting resistor of 200K or maybe even higher to

start with.

 

 

 

Re: Tapestar for DOS

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Did not find it either, but if your tape has SCSI I used Overland Data’s Depot4 
instead. Google it up, I uploaded it on archives.org.
Marc

> On Dec 13, 2019, at 10:12 AM, Ali via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Can anyone please point me towards a copy of the Tapestar utility package
> for DOS? I have already contacted Qualstar and they cannot help. TIA!
> 
> -Ali
> 
> 
> 

Re: Discord

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Tried the discord, and enjoyed it much more than I would have expected! It was 
nice to talk with members in real time and share pictures of new acquisitions, 
current projects, and also talk about where everybody lives. 
Marc

> On Nov 15, 2019, at 9:31 AM, jwest--- via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I believe I sent the invite to my game channel, NOT the new classiccmp 
> server. please use this instead:
> https://discord.gg/gV6PKYW
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of jwest--- via cctalk
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 11:26 AM
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' 
> Subject: Discord
> 
> Greetings folks
> 
> 
> 
> The past few years I’ve become fairly focused on a particular old 1999/2000 
> ww2 fps computer game. Of course playing it but I’m also on the development 
> team for the game (EA has given up on it, but we still put out new releases, 
> maps, patches, etc.). As a result of that, I pretty much live on Discord 
> text/audio chat these days. If you send me an email I will eventually see it 
> and may even respond heh. But if you send me anything on Discord I’m going to 
> see it immediately. If any of you are on discord, I am “Todesengel#9624”. 
> Feel free to add me as a friend and that way you can get me usually 
> immediately. I am not leaving the hobby, nor am I saying not to email me at 
> the usual address. But a lot of you do talk to me semi-frequently and I’m 
> just saying discord will get to me far quicker.
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, mostly as an exercise to see how to do it, I set up a ClassicCMP 
> discord server. That Discord server is NOT meant to replace this list, nor 
> should it be taken to signal any less commitment on my part to keeping this 
> list running. They are fundamentally different things; Discord is great for 
> real time text chat back and forth. There are also audio and video channels 
> if people want to use that to talk verbally or via video. To get on that 
> server, here is a semi-permanent invite: https://discord.gg/U8Skw5g  Joining 
> the server gets you to all the other folks who may join the classiccmp 
> discord, not just me. Of course, that could be zero  Like I said, I just did 
> it as an exercise, and discord is how some of my family and friends stay in 
> touch. But it is there if peeps want to use it.
> 
> 
> 
> I’d rather not turn this into a long debate of whether discord is good or bad 
> or anything like that. I’m just saying it’s there, and it’s quicker to get 
> ahold of me that way at times.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Best email to reach a human at the centre for computing history (computinghistory.org.uk)

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I also responded off line. They did scan a doc for me in the recent past.
Marc

> On Nov 2, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I will answer Al offline
> 
> Dave
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Al Kossow via
>> cctalk
>> Sent: 01 November 2019 22:36
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
>> Subject: Best email to reach a human at the centre for computing history
>> (computinghistory.org.uk)
>> 
>> I've tried several times to email them, and never received a reply.
>> Could someone send me an email adr for a human who might be able to
>> answer if they could scan something which is in their catalog but isn't 
>> available
>> on line there?
> 
> 

Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I found Brent Hilpert’s site most useful in getting a quick meaning for these 
numbers:
http://madrona.ca/e/HP21xx/index.html
http://madrona.ca/e/HP21xx/iointerfaces.html
There is also a very useful series 1000 reference manual that lists most of the 
configs and options and cards, I will get to it when I am home and try to send 
you a link.

My experience is that you absolutely have to open them up to figure out what 
they actually are. They are so modular and upgradable and interchangeable that 
the original config sticker rarely matches what’s inside. Actually, I have yet 
to see one that has a config that matches the factory sticker. Sometimes the 
motherboard isn’t even the series that the front panel says!

Also you need to find out what optional microcode ROMs they are fitted with 
(extended/virtual memory, fast fortran, vector, scientific, etc...) to know 
what version of RTE they can actually run, and which boot ROMs are installed. 
That said they are very easy to take apart, just open front and back, slide out 
top and bottom covers, slide the cards out, and admire the modular design. They 
are also very well documented.

Marc

> On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:21 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps these will help? 
> https://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?hwimg=108 
> http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/hewlett-packard/hp-21mx 
> 
> 
> From: "Guy Sotomayor Jr"  
> To: "myself" , "cctalk"  
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 3:04:31 PM 
> Subject: Re: Identification of an HP minicomputer 
> 
> It’s a 9-slot variant that says HP-1000 M-Series on the front panel. From 
> what I can tell the front panel appears to be the same as any of the other 
> HP-1000 series. 
> 
> What I’m trying to figure out is what the actual CPU configuration is without 
> disassembly (which I still need to figure out) so that I can actually examine 
> the boards. 
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> TTFN - Guy 
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk  
>> wrote: 
>> 
>> Can you provide a picture of the front panel? 
>> 2113 implies a 21MX-E; the nine-slot version is a 2109 while the 
>> fourteen-slot would be a 2113. 
>> This might help - https://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=109 . 
>> 
>> From: "cctalk"  
>> To: "cctalk"  
>> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 2:52:18 PM 
>> Subject: Identification of an HP minicomputer 
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I’m trying to 
>> identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of 
>> configuration it might have). 
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, it’s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should 
>> hopefully get us *some* details). The “asset tag” lists the part number as 
>> 2113023-108. Looking at the back there’s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are 
>> occupied). 
>> 
>> So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell 
>> (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). 
>> 
>> Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look 
>> at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can’t tell what’s 
>> there and I’d like to see if there’s a way to determine what this is without 
>> resorting to disassembly. 
>> 
>> Thanks. 
>> 
>> TTFN - Guy 

Re: Margaret Hamilton Guardian interview.

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Good eye. It’s an HP 2116B. In the queue for restoration. We were starting to 
work on it, then the AGC opportunity came along...
Marc

> On Jul 13, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> At 01:48 PM 13/07/2019 -0700, you wrote:
>> Another of the un-acknowledged people in the upcoming July 29
>> 'celebrations'.
>> 
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/13/margaret-hamilton-computer-scientist-interview-software-apollo-missions-1969-moon-landing-nasa-women
>> 
>> --lyndon
> 
> 
> Highly related:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVKYDVZxWQ
> Apollo AGC Part 19: Restoration complete!
> Published on Jul 12, 2019
> IWe finally are able to make the original erasable core memory work, under 
> the watchful eye of guests more famous than us. This completes the 
> restoration of the AGC. In the process we dump the historical content that 
> was still present in the memory module and find all kinds of interesting 
> things.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, at 17:26 is that a HP 2116A in the background? Tall gray rackmount 
> unit. First minicomputer HP made.
> 
> Guy

Re: HP98035 Real Time clock and AC5954N clock chip

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks, I’ll see if I can find replacements. You can easily see how they get 
zapped: they are 2.5V chips, the NiCd battery *is* the voltage regulator. 
Charging circuit is a simple diode connected to 5V via a resistor. Battery 
dies, goes high impedance, somebody plugs it in to try it out and poof! Clock 
chip gets zapped by 5V. 
Marc

> On Jun 6, 2019, at 8:24 PM, Tony Duell  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 8:57 PM CuriousMarc via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> 
>> All HP fans in general and Tony in particular,
>> I have the exact same problem. HP98035 real time clock module
>> (http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=168), plugged into a HP9825T
>> (http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=171), accepts commands, reads back
>> all 8's. Battery is new, is charging and at the correct voltage.
>> Documentation says "never run the module without the battery or it would
>> damage the AC5954N clock chip". When I got the module it had not battery in
>> it, so this is what could have happened. Tony, did you eventually repair
>> your module or find some data on the clock chip?
> 
> I've certainly got a working 98035, but I can't remember if I repaired this 
> one.
> 
> The clock chip seems to be a normal digital watch/clock chip. The inputs to
> it are essentially the 'set' buttons, the outputs are the 7 segment lines and
> digit strobes. But I have not found a data sheet on it anywhere.
> 
> -tony

Re: apollo psa test point adaptor

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

It’s hard to find documentation for the ground test equipment apparently. The 
flyable hardware is very well documented, and Mike Stewart and co. are in the 
process of scanning it all at NARA. I can glean a few things from the markings 
on your picture. The PSA, or Power and Servo Assembly, had all the analog 
electronics for the Inertial Measurement Units and the star alignment optics, 
namely the scanning telescope and the sextant and the 3 pendulum accelerometers 
or PIPAs. It was a very large beast having maybe 100 modules, all the DC, 800Hz 
and 3200 Hz power supplies for the gyros and resolvers, the servo amplifiers 
for the 3 axes of the Inertial Measurement Unit, and the various temperature 
controllers. The test points give you access to internal key test points in the 
PSA to such things as the inertial measurement unit 3 gimbal error signals, the 
Scanning Telescope and Sextant optics trunnion and shaft error, corresponding 
servo test inputs (so you could rotate the gimbals or the optics), all the 
temperature monitors (there are many). 

 

There are two types of PSAs, one for the CM and one from the LM. Yours mentions 
SCT (Scanning Optical Telescope) and SXT (Sextant), and only the Command Module 
had a sextant, so we can pretty much tell this is a command module PSA test 
unit. There are also two very different revisions of the PSAs, Block I and 
Block II. Looking at the Block II PSA description (find it in the ND-1021043 
manual), it appeared to have two test connectors, J1 and J2, 61 pins each. But 
your tester breaks out 195 test points. The Block I seems to have more test 
pins, but I haven’t yet found the exact description. So my guess is that it is 
a Block I tester. 

 

Reading from the top: TB1 to TB5 – my guess is that this is a breakout of 5 
test connectors at the back of the PSA. A guess only, I don’t have the doc to 
confirm it. You put a voltmeter or a signal in these pins to measure your test 
point of put a signal into it. Pulse Probe, Direct Probe, Buffered Probe: I 
don’t know. The lowest left corner seems to deal with testing the servos, 3 at 
a time. If you are in the ISS (inertial sensing system) position, you’d 
probably move the 3 gimbal servos of the IMU. If you have it in the OPT 
position, you’d move the 3 axes of the optics which you can see on the other 
buttons, the SCT trunnion and the SXT trunnion and shaft. Apparently each of 
them has a slow or fast setting (that’s how I read 1:1 and 1:10 markings). The 
large commutator in the middle marked IRIG S.F. may be referring to the 
Integrating Inertial Reference Integrating Gyro Scale Factor monitoring. These 
are resistors networks that contained the calibration of the individual gyros. 
Problem is, there were 3 gyros and the knob has 5 positions, so that does not 
make a whole lot of sense to me.  

 

If it’s indeed a Block I tester, then I have a one of the Block I PSA trays it 
connects to. I was planning to used with my IRIG gyro, so the tester could 
potentially be useful to the project, if you were to lend it to us before you 
modify it. But probably not essential, as we can always break out the 
connectors ourselves (although it would be way less cool). And playing with the 
PSA is probably not going to happen for a while. It would be interesting to 
open it up and see if we could glean more insight from looking at the innards, 
and thoroughly document it before you modify it, so we can at least reproduce 
it.

 

Marc 

 

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Jon Elson , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 7:46 AM
To: Adrian Stoness , , 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: apollo psa test point adaptor

 

On 05/18/2019 10:08 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

anyone know where i could find manual or drawings on this im up in northern

manitoba canada picked it up at a rr auction to experiment with as a audio

interface not sure if the jacks on the side are the weird pins nasa had or

another standard i can find?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/albums/72157705166193482

 

There's a switch labeled "IRIG" which stands for Inter Range 

Instrumentation Group, and refers to a standard for 

telemetry encoding.  There is a standard for time code, a 

standard for modulating analog signas onto a bunch of FM 

carriers, and a standard for multiplexing several analog 

signals onto one FM carrier.

 

Apollo documents are probably VERY hard to come by these days.

 

Jon

 

Re: apollo psa test point adaptor

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I do not think this is correct. The IRIG almost certainly refers to the Apollo 
Inertial Reference Integrating Gyro, which you can see in this video along with 
one of the PSA trays Adrian’s contraption is supposed to be testing:

https://youtu.be/lXe2OS4nwnQ

BTW I got my Apollo IRIG at the same auction that Adrian got the Apollo PSA 
tester from. 

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Jon Elson , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 7:46 AM
To: Adrian Stoness , , 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: apollo psa test point adaptor

 

On 05/18/2019 10:08 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

anyone know where i could find manual or drawings on this im up in northern

manitoba canada picked it up at a rr auction to experiment with as a audio

interface not sure if the jacks on the side are the weird pins nasa had or

another standard i can find?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/albums/72157705166193482

 

There's a switch labeled "IRIG" which stands for Inter Range 

Instrumentation Group, and refers to a standard for 

telemetry encoding.  There is a standard for time code, a 

standard for modulating analog signas onto a bunch of FM 

carriers, and a standard for multiplexing several analog 

signals onto one FM carrier.

 

Apollo documents are probably VERY hard to come by these days.

 

Jon

 

Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad copy who else collecting?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Nomarski microscopy, Ed. Differential phase contrast microscopy. Makes very 
small height differences (partial wavelength) on mostly planar objects pop out, 
and creates amazing color effects as a biproduct. Pretty much a stalwart of any 
good cleanroom microscope. Every manufacturer offers it, usually a pretty 
expensive option as all your optics have to be stress-free. I dream to own one 
of these one day. 

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: "couryho...@aol.com" , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM
To: "couryho...@aol.com" , , 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: HP-01 calc watch go withs - brochures, t- shirts, booklets, ad 
copy who else collecting?

 

should  say

 Francion Yamamotto   not  Yrancion Yamamotto  

 

 

In a message dated 5/20/2019 10:07:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
couryho...@aol.com writes:

Since  we  have  nice  microscopes at  the museum  project  we  were  hired  to 
 photo  some IC  innards  years  back. This  ended  up  becoming  a minor 
obsession  for  a short  time  as  the  artwork under  various  illuminations  
is  fantastic.  

 

 

One of the things  that  seemed  to show the mots  difference in  detail 
between layers and highs  etc... was  differential  interference contrast  
(after  nomorski (sp?) ( this  was on our  Ziess Ultraphot  and  seems  to be  
a Zeiss  onlyoffering.0   on  the  Japanese  side of  things  Nikon  had   
Yrancion Yamamotto (sp?)  method  which  seems   nicebut  I  preferred  the 
  Nomeriski.

Using  these   methods  you  may be  able  to extract  more usable  detail   
than  with traditional methods.   and  wow  the  color  photos  are   
frame-able!

But   kinda  what  I  wanted to mention  to is  depending  on  what  era   the 
chips  were  the  over  coatingsseemed  to  worsen  the view  the newer the 
chip  or  so  I  thought at the  time.

 

 

 

Such  great   fun  to  photo   the  little  ic innards!   even  a  standard   
illum.   scope  with the  vertical  episcopic  illumination  gives   some
fun  photos  too,  especially  on the  earlier   chips.

 

Don't  know  if  any  of   this  will help on the  HP-01  roms  but  sure  was  
fun to talk about  again

ed sharpe archivist for  smecc

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 5/20/2019 9:00:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
space...@gmail.com writes:

Only just within the last month I finally obtained a ROM dump from a production 
HP-01, for potential use in my Nonpareil simulator. Previously I only had the 
preproduction code listed in a US patent. I'm not sure when I'll have time to 
actually work on the simulation, though.

My original plan had been to crack open an HP-01 module and try to read the ROM 
bits optically, as Peter Monta did for the HP-35. However, that didn't work, 
probably due to a passivation coating on the ROM dies.

 

Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Fantastic. It fell into the right hands.

Marc

 

And so the story continues

 

https://ibms360.co.uk/

Re: apollo psa test point adaptor

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

These are sturdy and notoriously expensive aerospace grade 38999 connectors. We 
had to slightly machine modern 38999’s male plugs to fit in these, but by in 
large it still fits the modern standard. I have one of the PSA trays it 
connects to, trying to make it work again! Nice and noble hardware it is.
Marc

> On May 18, 2019, at 8:08 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> anyone know where i could find manual or drawings on this im up in northern
> manitoba canada picked it up at a rr auction to experiment with as a audio
> interface not sure if the jacks on the side are the weird pins nasa had or
> another standard i can find?
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/1ajs/albums/72157705166193482

Re: Telex 20 Meg 10 platter very heavy monster drive needed drop line off list..r

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Nice beastie.
Marc

> On Apr 22, 2019, at 11:34 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks  Al   yes, that  is  the  one. 
> 
> and  as  I  recall   ISS  was a   offshoot  on   univac?In a message dated 
> 4/22/2019 11:21:50 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
> 
> 
>> On 4/22/19 11:05 AM, ED SHARPE wrote:
>> Al,  the  drive   you mention at  its  largest   was  7.5 meg  and  6  
>> platters... notthe   one
> 
> Telex bought their drives from ISS.
> You're looking for a ISS 714 (ca. 1970) 2314 compat.
> https://ia800608.us.archive.org/15/items/TNM_Information_Storage_Systems_-_714_Disk_Storag_20170630_0180/TNM_Information_Storage_Systems_-_714_Disk_Storag_20170630_0180.pdf
> 
> a...@bitsavers.org;cctalk
> 

Re: Plane of core memory

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I believe 3 wire memory was first introduced by IBM in their 360 systems, and 
it was a very large development effort. They would almost certainly have 
patented their way to do it, but I have not checked.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Jon Elson , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 7:08 PM
To: Noel Chiappa , , 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Plane of core memory

 

On 04/18/2019 03:15 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

  > From: Jon Elson

 

  > As soon as somebody figured out that you could combine the sense and

  > inhibit wires, everybody immediately went to 3-wire planes.

 

I"m suprised the idea wasn't patented. Or maybe it was, and they made the

license widely available at modest terms?

 

 

I was thinking the same thing, but can't find any references 

to who invented it.  it certainly sounds like the sort of 

thing to get a patent on.

 

Point of interest, my freshman advisor was Bill Papian, who 

was Jay W. Forrester's grad student when he invented 

coincident-current core memory.

 

Jon

 

Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Great! As Will says, this acquisition price is a small part of what it costs to 
move, install and repair the system, so they got a very reasonable deal. Can 
you at least tell us if it is coming stateside, or is it staying in Europe?

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: "lawre...@ljw.me.uk" , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 1:47 PM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Pleas ID this IBM system

 

On 16/04/2019 22:22, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:

Clearly the pile was not purchased for scrap, so it will be

interesting to see where it ends up. We may never know, with the

secretive nature of big iron collectors..

 

I know one of the group that bought it, but I am not sure if they are on

the list.

 

I believe the intention is to attempt to restore the /20 + peripherals.

Not sure about plans for the 370. It is a huge task, but they are keen.

 

So rest assured it won't be scrapped, and it won't disappear into a

collection.

 

Please don't ask me who it is. They are welcome to announce themselves

if they wish.

 

And it's not classic, but here's an IBM z/Series converted into a beer

fridge:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/ljw/NrV130

https://www.flickr.com/gp/ljw/35y797

 

-- 

Lawrence Wilkinson lawre...@ljw.me.uk

Ph +41(0)79 926 1036 http://www.ljw.me.uk

 

 

 

Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Any appetite at the CHM?
Marc

> On Apr 6, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hopefully LCM can go after this to flesh out their peripherals
> It looks like a nice set of disks and tapes, hopefully the 360-era
> disk and tape channel controllers are there too
> 
>> On 4/6/19 7:04 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> https://www.ebay.de/itm/seltene-Anlage-Puma-Computer-IBM-2020/202646831828?hash=item2f2eb142d4:g:izoAAOSwhV1cpw
> 

Re: Model 40 Re: IBM 360 Model 50 information?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

As Paul said. ALDs are schematics down to the gate level basically. Necessary 
to make a gate exact emulation, or debug and maintain a real machine. Used to 
be sent with each and every machine, but sadly not often preserved apparently. 
Fortunately our IBM 1401’s came with their ALDs. We refer to them every time so 
something goes wrong.
Marc

> On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:29 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 2019-04-01 11:25 p.m., Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 8:59 PM Steve Malikoff via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Marc said
 Which brings us to the real problem: we don’t have 360 Model 50 ALDs.
>>> Anyone has them?
 Marc
>>> And same for the Model 40 ALDs. All I have is one or two pages of the 2040
>>> ALD's and some peripheral ALD's only
>>> saved because I'd drawn artwork on the back, or they got used for book
>>> covering.
>>> I've not scanned them yet but should get to that sometime. Sadly there's
>>> not much there. A while ago I did scan a
>>> tiny fragment of the Model 40 development doc from Hursley
>>> https://archive.org/details/@galasphere347
>>> 
>>> Steve.
>>> 
>> What does ALD stand for?
>> Bill
> 
> Automated Logic Diagramthey are logic diagrams that where printed on 1403 
> printer with a special print train.
> 
> Paul.
> 

Re: AGC restoration / was Re: PDP-8 signed overflow detection - Apollo guidace computer

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yes, that would be Carl’s “day to day” blog (http://rescue1130.blogspot.com/). 
He is also on the list, lurking in the background. Carl, are you there?
Ken Shirriff has also several deeply researched blog articles on specific AGC 
topics (righto.com).
Mike has some very interesting posts on his AGC FPGA emulation work here: 
http://mikestewart.hcoop.net/
Marc

> On Mar 26, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-Mar-26, at 9:28 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
>>> From: Ben Bfranchuk
>> 
>>> Now they seem to have have found a SCRAPPED Apollo guidance
>>> computer and am rebuilding the missing pieces.
>> 
>> Wow. What a great site (and that guy has mad skills, everything from
>> repairing old Teletypes, through designing boards, to repairing analog
>> stuff). Just 'wasted' a good chunk of the morning reading back through
>> it; tons of really neat things (including recovery of the very first
>> FORTH, along with a lot of Diablo drive - from the Alto - repairs).
>> 
>> As a shortcut, here:
>> 
>> http://rescue1130.blogspot.com/2018/11/
>> 
>> is the backstory on the AGC; about 1/3 of the way down, in "Restoring an
>> Apollo Guidance Computer, part V".
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same AGC restoration that curious marc has been making videos 
> about:
> 
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KSahAoOLdU
> 
> The project and videos were mentioned on the list back in December.
> There's an interview with Jimmie there (4:13) with more details about the 
> backstory.
> 

Re: IBM 360 Model 50 information?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Which brings us to the real problem: we don’t have 360 Model 50 ALDs. Anyone 
has them?

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Jon Elson , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Friday, March 29, 2019 at 8:45 AM
To: Ken Shirriff , , 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: IBM 360 Model 50 information?

 

On 03/28/2019 11:46 AM, Ken Shirriff via cctalk wrote:

I'm writing a S/360 Model 50 emulator that runs at the microcode level, in

order to drive a Model 50 front panel accurately. I'm about 80% of the way

there, but there are some microcode operations that I haven't figured out.

So I figured I'd ask if anyone has obscure Model 50 manuals that aren't on

bitsavers, or perhaps even the ALDs.

 

I was surprised at how extremely different the microcode is from the 360

instruction set.

If you had a 360 instruction set, why would you implement a 

360 by an emulator?

It would be most common that a microcode emulator would be a 

quite different scheme, kind of implementing an RTL 

(Register Transfer Logic) in a "language".

   I've figured out a bunch of the strange

micro-instructions, such as S47ΩE, which ORs the emit field into flags 4

through 7. But there are many micro-instructions that still puzzle me,

like F→FPSL4 which maybe a floating point shift left 4 and 1→BS*MB which

does something with byte stats. So if anyone happens to have a Model 50

microcode programming manual sitting around, please let me know :-)

 

Wow, what a project!  I think the only way to understand the 

microcode is to follow the signals through the ALD 

schematics.  A microcode programming manual would be of no 

use to anyone, as the microcode bit pattern was stored in 

the serpentine word-line traces of the control store 

boards.  360/50 and 360/65 used CCROS (capacitor-capacitor 

read only storage) where there were two word lines on one 

board, one driven and one grounded through a resistor, 

called drive lines and balance lines, respectively.  If 

there was a wide pad on the drive line opposite the pad on 

the bit line, that generated a 1 in the control store word, 

if the wide pad was on the balance line, you got a zero.  A 

very thin Mylar sheet separated the two boards, and pressure 

was applied by a pressure plate and foam pad.  So, a 

microcode change required a board master artwork to be 

changed and a new board etched.  Not a practical field 

operation. The only custom microcode I heard of in these 

models was for the National Airspace System for the FAA 

traffic control computers.  The variant of the 360/50 was 

called a 9020D display element, and the 360/65 variant was 

called the 9020E compute element.  So, somebody used the 

required documents for that project.

 

Oh, one other issue is the 360's had no FFs.  All storage 

elements were transparent latches, and they generally used a 

4-phase clock. All this is pretty well documented between 

the ALDs and the FEMM's for the particular model.

 

Jon

 

Re: BASIC for HP 1000, 21xx series

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Excellent write up Brent. We’ll refer to it when/if we get our 2116 going!
Marc

> On Feb 24, 2019, at 10:18 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2019-Feb-24, at 2:03 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> Back in ''70, sometimes we were running "basic" BASIC ( NOT Time sharing ) 
>> on 2116B, 2100A, just for FUN.
>> 
>> Is there some copy still around ??
>> 
>> I had a look in Google, Bitsavers, HPmuseum, with NO success.
>> 
>> Thank for help and/or advise.
> 
> 
> This is my own writeup about it, including assembler source and loader files, 
> but as noted there it's Guy Sotomayor (list member)
> that deserves the thanks for keeping it around and making it available:
> 
>http://madrona.ca/e/HP21xx/software/hpbasic/index.html
> 
> The source files are also available on bitsavers, link included on above 
> page. 
> 

Re: HP 85 tapes

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Christian,
This I don’t know. You should join the hp 80 group on groups.io and ask there:
https://groups.io/g/hpseries80
Some of the original engineers for the 85 are on there, they know every detail, 
and are incredibly helpful.
Marc

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2019, it was written
>> The way I have been doing it is to copy the tape files to a LIF floppy disk 
>> file (real or just emulated with HPDRIVE), then archive that - either just 
>> the HPDRIVE file or a ImageDisk archive of the real disk. Recreating the 
>> tape is the inverse process of copying the virtual or real disk to the tape.
> 
> And what about SECUREd files? I'm thinking of a binary program that ideally 
> dumps the cartridge to e.g a single floppy disk file. I've done something 
> similarly for the IBM 5110, but I'm no HP 85 expert at all.
> There's quite a large HP community, I can't imagine that nobody has attempted 
> that before.
> 
> Christian

Re: HP 85 tapes

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

The way I have been doing it is to copy the tape files to a LIF floppy disk 
file (real or just emulated with HPDRIVE), then archive that - either just the 
HPDRIVE file or a ImageDisk archive of the real disk. 
Recreating the tape is the inverse process of copying the virtual or real disk 
to the tape.
Marc

> On Feb 25, 2019, at 8:23 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> what is the recommended way to image HP 85 tape cartridges? The best would be 
> including headers and whatsoever, and to be able to recreate tapes from the 
> images and have a 1:1 duplicate from the original cartridge.
> 
> I'm almost done with rebelting and imaging our 264x cartridges and would like 
> to continue with the other tapes (85 and 9845).
> 
> Christian

Re: Xerox Star emulator (Darkstar) released today

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Just wow. Congrats Josh.
Marc

> On Jan 19, 2019, at 9:09 PM, Scott Kevill via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Josh didn't mention this, and I didn't see it linked on the GitHub repo, but 
> he's also written a fantastic intro article about it here:
> 
> https://engblg.livingcomputers.org/index.php/2019/01/19/introducing-darkstar-a-xerox-star-emulator/
> 
> Covers some of the Xerox Star's history, challenges of the emulation 
> development process, photos, diagrams, and screenshots of it in action.
> 
> Highly recommended!
> 
> (even if you're not that familiar with the Xerox Star)
> 
> Scott.
> 
>> On 19/01/2019, at 11:36 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> Thought you folks might be interested -- I've been working on a Xerox Star 
>> emulator at LCM+L on and off over the past year and I've finally unleashed 
>> it upon the world.  It's called Darkstar, it's open source and it runs all 
>> the Star software I'm aware of.  The Ethernet interface is still mostly 
>> untested, however.
>> 
>> You can grab the emulator and its source code on our GitHub site 
>> here:https://github.com/livingcomputermuseum/Darkstar.  Disk images are 
>> available on Bitsavers as always.  Thanks to Al for providing a lot of 
>> assistance on this project.
>> 
>> Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Josh
>> 
> 

Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Interconnects at 28Gb/s/lane have been out for a while now, supported by quite 
a few chips. 56Gb/s PAM4 is around the corner, and we run 100Gb/s in the lab 
right now. Just sayin’ ;-). That said, we throw in about every equalization 
trick we know of, PCB materials are getting quite exotic and connectors are 
pretty interesting. We have to hand hold our customers to design their 
interconnect traces and connector breakouts. And you can’t go too far, with 
increasing reliance on micro-twinax or on-board optics for longer distances and 
backplanes.
Marc

> On Jan 4, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Apropos of nothing, I've been confuse for some time regarding maximum
> clock rates for local bus.
> 
> My admittedly old information, which comes from the 3rd ed. of "High
> Performance Computer Architecture", a course I audited, indicates a
> maximum speed on the order of 1ghz for very very short trace lengths.
> 
> Late model computers boast multi-hundred to multi gigahertz fsb's.  Am
> I wrong in thinking this is an aggregate of several serial lines
> running at 1 to 200mhz?  No straight answer has presented on searches
> online.
> 
> So here's the question.  Is maximum fsb on standard, non-optical bus
> still limited to a maximum of a couple of hundred megahertz, or did
> something happen in the last decade or two that changed things
> dramatically?  I understand, at least think I do, that these
> ridiculously high frequency claims would not survive capacitance issues
> and RFI issues. When my brother claimed a 3.2ghz bus speed for his
> machine I just told him that was wrong, impossible for practical
> purposes, that it had to be an aggregate figure, a 'Pentium rating'
> sort of number rather than the actual clock speed.  I envision
> switching bus tech akin to present networking, paralleled to sidestep
> the limit while keeping pin and trace counts low.?  Something like
> the PCIe 'lane' scheme in present use?  This is surmise based on my own
> experience.
> 
> When I was current, the way out of this limitation was fiber-optics for
> the bus.  This was used in supercomputing and allowed interconnects of
> longer length at ridiculous speeds.
> 
> Thanks for allowing me to entertain this question.  Though it is not
> specifically a classic computer question, it does relate to development
> and history.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Technoid Mutant (Jeff Worley)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Original AGC restoration / was Re: Apollo 8 Mission Control printers, or not?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

We don’t know yet. Looks like a very difficult repair.
Marc

> On Dec 29, 2018, at 7:25 PM, Adrian Stoness  wrote:
> 
> think that core pack will ever live again?
> 

Re: Original AGC restoration / was Re: Apollo 8 Mission Control printers, or not?

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

> On Dec 29, 2018, at 6:00 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-Dec-28, at 4:43 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
>> have u seen the agc being fired up videos
> 
> 
> Yes, videos from list member curiousMarc :
>Episode 1:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KSahAoOLdU
> 
> He's up to Episode 5, the others should show up in subsequent links from the 
> 1st.
> 
> Lucky bunch of guys to have the opportunity (although I can't say I'd want to 
> be stuck in a congested hotel room like that for the task).
> 
Yes that would be lucky us. Hotel was no fun but owner understandably did not 
want to ship or even get separated from his AGC. We have been offered some real 
lab space in Houston for next time, so hopefully we’ll be in better shape. 
Marc

Re: Documation card readers for sale

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Interested in the Arduino interface too. Will save me some time. Has it been 
posted anywhere?

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Ethan Dicks , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Monday, December 10, 2018 at 7:21 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Documation card readers for sale

 

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 7:24 PM Kyle Owen  wrote:

If anyone here does get one, I've got a simple Arduino UNO program that

interfaces to the parallel output and sends fully decoded information over

USB at quite high speeds.

 

I'm interested in that!  I was designing one in my head this weekend.

Much better to stand on the shoulders of giants!

 

I'm also working on getting a cable made to hook up to the M843 CR8-E

punched card reader interface for the PDP-8/E, but that's a project for

another day (year?).

 

I have an M8291 CR-11 board (untested) but no cable.  Same cable as

the M843 AFAIK (documented as such).

 

The interesting thing about my M-200 is it has a factory mod - a

6802-based parallel-serial board, mounted on an internal 44-pin

0.156"-spacing connector, so rather than remove that and use an

external cable, I have the option of making my own card for the socket

with a 40-pin Berg connector and using a straight 40-pin cable to the

M8291 or M843.

 

But since mine is punched-cards only (not mark-sense cards), I'm not

that likely to punch a lot of card decks for mine.  Once I read 3-4

decks for a local buddy, I don't really have "next use" for my reader.

 

-ethan

 

Re: Working Ardent Titan on Youtube

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Fantastic video and work! The immense boards and 3D molecular software are very 
impressive!
Marc

> On Nov 25, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech 
>  wrote:
> 
> Now that my mousepad problem has been solved, and I have a fully working 
> Ardent Titan with some interesting software on it – the bundled version of 
> MATLAB, and BIOGRAF, a molecular modeling application – I decided to make a 
> short video about this system in which I show the hardware and demonstrate 
> some of the software: https://youtu.be/tMSnnt3iFz0
> 
> 
> 
> For those who haven’t heard of the system; the 1987 Ardent Titan (later 
> renamed the Stardent 1500) was the first system that combined vector 
> processors (as in a Cray-like architecture) and a graphics engine on the same 
> backplane, and was the highest-performing graphics supercomputer for a short 
> while. In the end, however, a longer than planned time to market and a forced 
> merger with Stellar Computer caused the premature demise of the company.
> 
> 
> 
> Cleve Moler, the inventor of MATLAB, worked at Ardent for three years, which 
> is one of the reasons the Titan was the only computer ever to come with 
> MATLAB as part of its bundled software. As I found out later – after creating 
> this video – the version of MATLAB on the Titan was unique, because it 
> included a “render” command, which would plot a 3D surface using the Doré 
> graphics library. On other platforms, MATLAB could only render mesh plots. It 
> wasn’t until 1992 that the mainstream version of MATLAB gained 3D surface 
> rendering.
> 
> 
> 
> Cleve wrote a number of articles on his blog about the Titan, one of which 
> (https://blogs.mathworks.com/cleve/2013/12/09/the-ardent-titan-part-2/) 
> describes how the Titan was used to create a video of a vibrating L-shaped 
> membrane. With a little help from Cleve, I’m trying to recreate this video. A 
> first effort – which isn’t quite right yet – can be seen here: 
> https://youtu.be/-XeabDqRAG8
> 
> 
> 
> I hope some of you enjoy these!
> 
> 
> 
> Camiel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: A weird and ancient IBM offline memory device

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

The Noodle Snatcher! We have one of these in the CHM collection. 

Marc

 

From: cctech  on behalf of 
"cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Peter Van Peborgh , "cct...@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 2:14 PM
To: "cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: A weird and ancient IBM offline memory device

 

Vintage geeks,

 

Third attempt - hope springs eternal!

 

Do any of you know where I could get hold of IBM 2321 "Data Cell" media?

1960s-1970s.

 

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell

 

If you do, I would like to get hold of one.

 

Many thanks,

 

Peter 

 

PS Apologies if I am boring you.

 

|| |  |   || |  |   ||

Peter Van Peborgh

62 St Mary's Rise

Writhlington  Radstock

Somerset BA3 3PD

UK

01761 439 234

|| |  |   || |  |   ||

 

 

 

Re: Removing PVA from a CRT

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I like this idea, thanks for sharing. I might do the same for my HP 264x 
screens.

Marc

 

From: cctech  on behalf of 
"cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Michael Thompson , 
"cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 5:59 PM
To: "cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Removing PVA from a CRT

 

When we fixed the VR14 at the RICM, we were concerned about the safety

aspects of removing the PVA and just using double-sided tape to hold the

outer glass in place. We bought a thin sheet of Lexan at Home Depot, put

the outer glass on a cookie sheet with the outside surface down, put the

sheet of Lexan on top, and put it in an oven. When the temperature hit 420F

(if I remember correctly) the Lexan softened and conformed to the inside of

the glass. We trimmed the Lexan to size, reassembled the Lexan and glass to

the front of the CRT, and glued the steel mounting band in place. It looks

great, and is probably a lot safer than just leaving the PVA out.

 

-- 

Michael Thompson

 

Re: Odd Hp leds in dip package

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

But the HDSP 2010 have only 12 pins. I think his are 28 pins, hence the HDSP 
2450 suggestion, the closest I could find working off my 1986 catalog.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Al Kossow , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 10:31 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Re: Odd Hp leds in dip package

 

probably hdsp-2010

1988 opto catalog pg 609 in the scan

 

On 11/21/18 8:30 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

On 11/21/18 7:52 AM, devin davison via cctalk wrote:

Hello. Encountered a couple odd parts in the pile today, not sure if they

are anything special.

they're pretty cool quad 5x7 alphanumeric LEDs

check http://bitsavers.org/components/hp

 

 

Re: Odd Hp leds in dip package

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Try to look up HDSP-2450. These are 5x7 alphanumeric displays with shift 
register drivers included. Yours might be an earlier version of that, or just a 
commercial temp version  of that (the HDSPs are extended temp -55/85C). Maybe 
the internal part used in the HP9825 or HP 9830 displays, then later 
commercially sold as the HDSP 2xxx series. I can scan the HDSP data sheet if 
you can’t find it online. Maybe this will help: 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=5=2ahUKEwirg4e0_-XeAhWHd98KHVa5AD8QFjAEegQIJhAC=http%3A%2F%2Felectron-pv.com%2FPDFs%2FLED%2FHDSP-2xxx%2520AppNote.pdf=AOvVaw1JF1llgVbDdAbcK8UMBie9

If you don’t need them I’ll take them :-D

Marc 

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: devin davison , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 7:53 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Odd Hp leds in dip package

 

Hello. Encountered a couple odd parts in the pile today, not sure if they

are anything special. Hp branded dip packages with gold leads. They appear

to be leds in 4 grid patterns on the face. Im curious what they are out of,

most likely an old hp computer or calculator.

 

Part number on the back is hp5033592-101

 

i could not find any information online about them. If they are of use to

someone with a hp conputer let me know. If not im trying to find a

datasheet and use them in a project.

 

Pictures :

 

https://i.postimg.cc/dtJTGZfm/2018-11-21-10-48-34.jpg

 

https://i.postimg.cc/pL6hNGLq/2018-11-21-10-49-19.jpg

 

https://i.postimg.cc/C1Nw054S/2018-11-21-10-50-37.jpg

 

Re: The DosFish (object oriented GUIS)

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

That’s a great one! Best summary of this thread so far. Thanks for sharing.
Marc

> On Oct 28, 2018, at 10:36 AM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> This was circulating in 1995/6.  IBM had been shipping the very good
> OS/2 for some years and Microsoft was trying to catch up.  Someone did
> a very nice parody.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> *The Legend of the Pea Sea*
> Long ago, in the days when all disks flopped in the breeze and the
> writing of words was on a star, the Blue Giant dug for the people the
> Pea Sea. But he needed a creature who could sail the waters, and would
> need for support but few rams.
> So the Gateskeeper, who was said to be both micro and soft, fashioned a
> Dosfish, who was small and spry, and could swim the narrow sixteen-bit
> channel. But the Dosfish was not bright, and could be taught few
> tricks. His alphabet had no A's, B's, or Q's, but a mere 640 K's, and
> the size of his file cabinet was limited by his own fat.
> At first the people loved the Dosfish, for he was the only one who
> could swim the Pea Sea. But the people soon grew tired of commanding
> his line, and complained that he could neither be dragged nor dropped.
> "Forsooth," they cried, "the Dosfish can only do one job at a time, and
> of names he knows only eight and three." And many of them left the Pea
> Sea for good, and went off in search of the Magic Apple.
> Although many went, far more stayed, because admittance to the Pea Sea
> was cheap. So the Gateskeeper studied the Magic Apple, and rested
> awhile in the Parc of the XerOx, and he made a Window that could ride
> on the Dosfish and do its thinking for it. But the Window was slow, and
> it would break when the Dosfish got confused. So most people contented
> themselves with the Dosfish.
> Now it came to pass that the Blue Giant came upon the Gateskeeper, and
> spoke thus: "Come, let us make of ourselves something greater than the
> Dosfish." The Blue Giant seemed like a humbug, so they called the new
> creature Oz II.
> Now Oz II was smarter than the Dosfish, as most things are. It could
> drag and drop, and could keep files without becoming fat. But the
> people cared for it not. So the Blue Giant and the Gateskeeper promised
> another Oz II, to be called Oz II Too, that could swim fast in the new,
> 32-bit wide Pea Sea.
> Then lo, a strange miracle occurred. Although the Window that rode on
> the Dosfish was slow, it was pretty, and the third Window was prettiest
> of all. And the people began to like the third Window, and to use it.
> So the Gateskeeper turned to the Blue Giant and said, "Fie on thee, for
> I need thee not. Keep thy Oz II Too, and I shall make of my Window an
> Entity that will not need the Dosfish, and will swim in the 32-bit Pea
> Sea."
> Years passed, and the workshops of the Gateskeeper and the Blue Giant
> were many times overrun by insects. And the people went on using their
> Dosfish with a Window; even though the Dosfish would from time to time
> become confused and die, it could always be revived with three fingers.
> Then there came a day when the Blue Giant let forth his Oz II Too onto
> the world. The Oz II Too was indeed mighty, and awesome, and required a
> great ram, and the world was changed not a whit. For the people said,
> "It is indeed great, but we see little application for it." And they
> were doubtful, because the Blue Giant had met with the Magic Apple, and
> together they were fashioning a Taligent, and the Taligent was made of
> objects, and was most pink.
> Now the Gateskeeper had grown ambitious, and as he had been ambitious
> before he grew, he was now more ambitious still. So he protected his
> Window Entity with great security, and made its net work both in
> serving and with peers. And the Entity would swim, not only in the Pea
> Sea, but in the Oceans of Great Risk. "Yea," the Gateskeeper declared,
> "though my entity will require a greater ram than Oz II Too, it will be
> more powerful than a world of Eunuchs."
> And so the Gateskeeper prepared to unleash his Entity to the world, in
> all but two cities. For he promised that a greater Window, a greater
> Entity, and even a greater Dosfish would appear one day in Chicago and
> Cairo, and it too would be built of objects.
> Now the Eunuchs who lived in the Oceans of Great Risk, and who scorned
> the Pea Sea, began to look upon their world with fear. For the Pea Sea
> had grown and great ships were sailing in it, the Entity was about to
> invade their Oceans, and it was rumored that files would be named in
> letters greater than eight. And the Eunuchs looked upon the Pea Sea,
> and many of them thought to immigrate.
> Within the Oceans of Great Risk were many Sun Worshippers, and they had
> wanted to excel, and make their words perfect, and do their jobs as
> easy as one-two-three. And what's more, many of them no longer wanted
> to pay for the Risk. So the Sun Lord went to the Pea Sea, and got
> himself eighty-sixed.
> And taking the next step 

Re: Desktop Metaphor

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

As they used to say, Windows95 = Mac 1984. Which is pushing it a bit but has 
some truth in it... Maybe Mac 1990. Curiously, the Xerox Alto has quite 
advanced GUI and object oriented programming (including the smalltalk windowing 
environment), but no desktop metaphor or icons that I have seen. I believe 
desktop metaphors appear later in the Alto commercial successor, the Xerox 
Star, and in the Apple Lisa, which bears strong Xerox influences. Xerox’s 
desktop metaphor pushes the object concept a bit far, while the Lisa got what 
would become the modern ubiquitous version of the concept almost dead on. Did I 
get this approximately right? Are there any other GUI desktop metaphors that 
predates this?
Marc

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 2:19 PM, ben via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/22/2018 10:57 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote:
>> X-Windows-based desktop metaphor UI's existed within the Unix world long 
>> before Win95 came on the scene.
>> The whole desktop metaphor UI existed long before Windows 95 in non-Unix 
>> implementations by Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center) with the 
>> pioneering Xerox Alto, introduced in 1973,  which implemented  Alan Kay's 
>> concepts for the desktop metaphor that were postulated in 1970 using 
>> Smalltalk as the core operating system.
> 
> That may be true but DOS/WINDOWS and APPLE II all had TV display output 
> formats, now it is WIDE SCREEN ONLY. From what little I have seen about the 
> Alto, you had a full sized 8x10? page format. The printed page
> DOES matter for graphic displays. Try and find a printed page size PDF
> reader, or one a tad smaller. Reading a PDF on a KINDLE DOES NOT WORK.
> I suspect a good PDF reader, a not tablet, is needed often for all the
> online doc's at places like bit savers to get the knowledge close to a
> classic computer.
> 
> I hate GUI's,because I hate ICON's. I see a little hand popup, is a mouse 
> pointer,stop that sign, or play feel the naked photo.
> 
> Ben.
> 

Re: Identifying TO-3 w/HP house numbering

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Yay! Congrats Josh!
Marc

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 8:39 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:19 AM Josh Dersch  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, all, for the responses!  The way it measures out makes it look
>> like it may be an MJ10006 or similar.  I think it's probably ok.
>> 
>> I poked around a bit more this morning and it's looking like part of the
>> flyback is shorted out -- we have a 2382 at the museum and I popped it open
>> just now and I verified that it measures differently (i.e "not shorted" :))
>> at the same points.  So that's likely my problem.  Drat.
>> 
>> - Josh
>> 
> 
> And I was wrong -- the flyback's fine (yay!).  Found a nearby 0.015uF, 400V
> film capacitor that was shorted.  Replaced it and now I have video!  It's a
> bit dim, it's too wide, and gets wider as it warms up but it's a start :).
> 
> Thanks again,
> Josh

Re: Identifying TO-3 w/HP house numbering

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Forgot to mention, I have a 2382A that works (affectionately known as the 
"Munchkin" terminal). I could measure some stuff in mine for comparison if that 
could help out. 
For the HP curious, the 2382A makes an appearance at the end of one of my 
videos:
https://youtu.be/GLkhcDAOVPo?t=19m50
It is very cute (I think) ;-)
Marc

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 12:08 AM, Curious Marc  wrote:
> 
> Can't find it either in any of the X-ref lists I have. As you know already, 
> 1854 are usually NPN transistors, but around these numbers I see mostly 
> Darlingtons in my collection. So maybe that's what you have, and why the 
> junctions would test weird.
> Marc
> 
>> On Oct 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey all --
>> 
>> Got an HP 2382A terminal I'm attempting to resurrect.  I get no video, no
>> heater, no high voltage.  What I believe to be the horizontal output
>> transistor appears to be bad, but I'm not sure if this thing contains
>> internal diodes that might be throwing off my testing attempts.  It's
>> labeled "1854-0900."  Anyone know what this actually is?  (Anyone have a
>> service manual for this terminal?)
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Josh

Re: Identifying TO-3 w/HP house numbering

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Can't find it either in any of the X-ref lists I have. As you know already, 
1854 are usually NPN transistors, but around these numbers I see mostly 
Darlingtons in my collection. So maybe that's what you have, and why the 
junctions would test weird.
Marc

> On Oct 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey all --
> 
> Got an HP 2382A terminal I'm attempting to resurrect.  I get no video, no
> heater, no high voltage.  What I believe to be the horizontal output
> transistor appears to be bad, but I'm not sure if this thing contains
> internal diodes that might be throwing off my testing attempts.  It's
> labeled "1854-0900."  Anyone know what this actually is?  (Anyone have a
> service manual for this terminal?)
> 
> Thanks,
> Josh

Re: Some late fifties HP measurement equipment available. ( Switzerland )

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Wow. Beautiful nixie counter, and 10MHz with tubes to boot! Impressive. The 
kind of stuff that made HP famous.
Marc

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-Sep-03, at 8:39 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:
>> the following late fifties HP equipment is available in Switzerland.
>> Stored in less than ideal conditions, but seem otherwise quite OK.
>> 
>> Feel free to forward to more fitting mailing list / fora.
>> 
>> Not my equipment, my only interest in this is saving these from the 
>> scrapheap.
>> 
>> 
>> HEWLETT PACKARD TIME INTERVAL UNIT 526B
>> HEWLETT PACKARD ELECTRONIC COUNTER 524C
>> HEWLETT PACKARD DIGITAL RECORDER 560A
>> 
>> ( Possibly a second HP524(b) , unsure of this )
>> 
>> I will forward email adresses tio the seller, up to you to complete.
>> He expects to raise some money, unsure if realistic or not.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I've made this comment before when this type of equipment has been 
> mentioned on the list,
> but as it's being mentioned again:
> 
> The 524C is a tube-based NIXIE-display digital frequency/period/event counter,
> the 526B is a plug-in input module for the 524,
> and IIRC the 560 is a printing recorder for use with the 524.
> 
>http://madrona.ca/e/edte/HP524C/index.html
>http://madrona.ca/e/edte/HP520/index.html
> 
> In my opinion, it's a reasonable acquisition for a computer museum as an 
> example of
> tube-based digital technology from which the 1st generation of computers were 
> built
> (seeing as how tube-based computers are a tad difficult to come by these 
> days).
> 
> If you're an HP collector, the 520 series was HP's first step into digital 
> technology.
> 

Re: HP-2250 in Salt Lake City

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

It's an HP-IB controlled data acquisition box for large real time industrial 
test or automation control installations. Very specialized. Think measuring or 
outputting 100's of analog signals in real time. Most likely meant to be 
connected to a HP 1000 series computer running the RTE real time operating 
system. HP's core test and measurement business, and the reason they went into 
computers at first. This real time measurement and control capabilities could 
not be matched by other minis or later PCs running Windows for a very long 
time, and the antiquated series 1000 lasted a lot longer than you'd have 
thought, mostly in industrial environments.
Marc 

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 7:54 PM, Tim Riker via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Someone on this list, I don't remember who, asked me if I was interested
> in this, and then dropped it off. I've not gotten around to doing
> anything with it, and I could use the space back. If anyone is
> interested, holler.
> 
> HP 2250 Measurement & Control Processor
> 
> Pictures are the same ones that came with it. Photographer unknown.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/XjEj8E8vQ8KX9xcg8
> 
> If your interested in picking it up, email me directly, please. If you
> have more information to share, respond to the list. :)
> 
> If anyone knows more about what this is, I'd be interested to hear.
> 
> I got these links from Mike on the SIMH list:
> 
> http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=986
> 
> http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=5124
> 
> http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=4579
> 
> Mine is the "2250M" version. Apparently this heavy beast is "mobile"
> because it has wheels on it. :)

Re: HP scope mailing list

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Ah, excellent, groups.io is so much better.
Marc

> On Aug 17, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2018-08-17 12:40 AM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
>> +1 on the hp_agilent Yahoo group
> 
> 
> Which at this very moment is MOVING to groups.io:
> 
>  https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment
> 
> Also highly recommended is the TekScopes list if you own/repair any Tek
> gear:
> 
>  https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics
> 
> --Toby
> 
> 
>> Marc
>> 
>>> On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Paul Birkel via cctalk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Try: hp_agilent_equipm...@yahoogroups.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles 
>>> Dickman via cctalk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM
>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>>> Subject: HP scope mailing list
>>> 
>>> Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list?
>>> 
>>> I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again.
>>> 
>>> -chuck
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: HP scope mailing list

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

+1 on the hp_agilent Yahoo group
Marc

> On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:22 PM, Paul Birkel via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Try: hp_agilent_equipm...@yahoogroups.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles 
> Dickman via cctalk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: HP scope mailing list
> 
> Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list?
> 
> I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again.
> 
> -chuck
> 

Re: BASIC (Was: Reading HP2000 tapes

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

And so does the HP 85.
Marc

> On Jul 17, 2018, at 1:50 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> The HP9830 (1972) with it's ROM'ed BASIC works this way.
> LIST produces a 'cleaned up' version of the source code.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2018-Jul-17, at 1:21 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> I should also mention that for the IBM S/23, once the BASIC program is 
>> entered, the original
>> source is discarded and only the tokenized code remains (comments are 
>> retained as-is).   The
>> LIST command runs a de-tokenizer and reconstructs the original source (well 
>> close to it anyway).
>> 
>> TTFN - Guy
>> 
>>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 12:33 PM, John Foust via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> At 03:53 PM 7/14/2018, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2018, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
> isn't the  basic  programs  also stored in tokinized  forms!?!?
 
 Yes.
 And the tokens are not the same between different brand implementations, 
 or even between different versions, such as MBASIC 4 and MBASIC 5.
 http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Tokenized_BASIC
>>> 
>>> I remember a detokenizer for RSTS BASIC-PLUS that's not on that list.
>>> 
>>> I think it was called a "decompiler" though.  Seemed like magic at the time.
>>> 
>>> Googling reveals "You may be remembering the BASIC PLUS
>>> decompiler under RSTS.  RSTS BASIC PLUS was interpreted from "push-pop" 
>>> code.
>>> The symbol table was available in the compiled file, and the correspondence
>>> between push-pop operations and BASIC PLUS source was very close, so you
>>> could get back very reasonable code."
>>> 
>>> And our previous discussion of it a decade ago:
>>> 
>>> https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp=121804804023540=2
>>> 
>>> - John
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: IBM junk

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Woohoo! What a collection! And none of it junk! Well done. Let me guess: 
staying in the US, East Coast, southern part? In any case, great that you found 
an acquirer that could preserve your awesome collecting work. And thanks so 
much for sharing the nice photos.
Marc

> On Jun 22, 2018, at 3:34 PM, Donald via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Collected stuff for over 10 years.  Moving from 2300 sq. ft. to 1400.  It
> had to go. Praise the computer gods I found someone that wanted it all.
> 
> 115 boxes of manuals and documents.
> 26 boxes of coffee mugs
> 73 703 boxes of stuff.
> 106 loose big items.
> 
> Filled the floor space of a 26' truck.
> 
> It can be viewed at http://www.ibmjunkman.com/junk/
> 
> Best viewed on a PC with decent speed connection.
> 
> Sample stuff: 360 Mod 20 panel, mod 30 panel, mod 65 panel, s/3 panel. Disk
> pack and HDA up the ying yang.3850 data carts, 2321 data cell, 7340
> Hypertape cartridge, a Russian equivalent, desktop chachki (tchotchke), 360
> mod 70 desktop model used in 1964 World's Fair,  etc, etc.
> 

Re: Logic Analyzer software for the HP-IB/RS-232 bus pre-processor HP 10342B

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Wow. Impressive reverse engineering work. Congrats!
Marc

> On May 26, 2018, at 5:09 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Marc Verdiell  
>> wrote:
>> This has probably been asked before, but does anyone have the software
>> package that came with the HP-IB/RS232 HP10342 bus pre-processor for the
>> HP1650 series Logic Analyzer (actually I have a 1670G)? It should have a
>> config file and an inverse assembler file. I'm interested in the HP-IB
>> files. Can't find it anywhere.
>> - Marc
>> 
> 
> Reviving a 3 year old thread...
> 
> For anyone that does any work with old HP logic analyzer inverse
> assembler files, it turns out that it is possible to decode the 68000
> based logic analyzer IAL style IA binary files back into equivalent
> source code that can be assembled again with the 10391B ASM.EXE
> assembler. (No idea yet about the 6809 based 1630 series logic
> analyzers. Those use a different binary format).
> 
> Decoded Inverse Assembler .S source code files for the 10342B HPIB,
> RS-232, RS-449 interface posted here:
> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-logic-analyzer-inverse-assemblers/msg1568359/#msg1568359

Re: HP 2100 prototyping card

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I got it! Thanks Al, I had been looking for one of these for a while, but the 
few ones that were available were at ridiculous prices. I wanted it mostly so I 
can reverse engineer it and make more of them, and/or get some inspiration for 
an FPGA based I/O board.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Al Kossow , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 4:51 PM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: HP 2100 prototyping card

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163039837440

 

obviously NOT used..

 

 

 

Re: 6130B

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

That's the guy I got my 6130B from. 
Marc

> On May 16, 2018, at 6:18 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> That seller has listed the 6130B and two 6131B a few times. Since
> those are in Seattle I should see if the seller allows local pickup as
> the listed shipping costs are higher than the item costs. Maybe grab
> all three and hope at least one of them can be made to work.
> 
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> just showed up
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-6130B-Digital-Voltage-Source-50-Volts-1-Amp/202315039951
>> 

Re: Help on a 1998 Award BIOS chip

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Actually the TL866A universal programmer comes with a PLCC-32 adapter included 
for about $50, including slo-mo shipment from the other end of the world and 
the extra tariff for the Chinese steel that must be hiding in it. And probably 
sharing a ride in the same boat, I should get some W29C020P’s. Which might 
chooch or not, on account of them containing either real or fake chips. In the 
latter case I will only will have lost a few American rupees and I can leave a 
blistering negative comment to further sink the already alarmingly low rating 
of my seller before he switches identity. So odds are in my favor. All 
electro-magically transacted on ePay based on fuzzy pictures for the gullible 
and funny money from PayBuddy. Oh the miracles of your new world economy. 

Marc

 

From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: geneb <ge...@deltasoft.com>, "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 7:09 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Help on a 1998 Award BIOS chip

 

On Mon, 16 Apr 2018, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:

 

 

 

On Apr 16, 2018, at 6:31 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:

 

On 04/16/2018 06:11 PM, CuriousMarc via cctalk wrote:

And lifting the sticker reveals the BIOS chip is just a W29C020P-12, a

regular 256k x 8 Flash memory, 5V chip. Duh. Mystery solved. Of course way

newer and with many more address lines than my DataIO 29B can read and

program. Time has come to buy a small, modern, cheap, infinitely capable

Chinesium EEPROM programmer. Read: the kind of practical, affordable,

sensical and useful equipment I usually steer away from. Ebay here I come.

Or make a programmer with an Arduino, since it's 5V.

 

Hmmm, you don't happen to be a subscriber to AvE's Youtube channel, perhaps?

 

--Chuck

 

Why... Would that be good or would that be bad?

Keep your disk in a vice!

:-)

Marc

 

Just make sure that the programmer you get chooches properly. ;)

 

g.

 

-- 

Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007

http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.

http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.

Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

 

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment

A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.

http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

 

Re: Help on a 1998 Award BIOS chip

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

> On Apr 16, 2018, at 6:31 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/16/2018 06:11 PM, CuriousMarc via cctalk wrote:
>> And lifting the sticker reveals the BIOS chip is just a W29C020P-12, a
>> regular 256k x 8 Flash memory, 5V chip. Duh. Mystery solved. Of course way
>> newer and with many more address lines than my DataIO 29B can read and
>> program. Time has come to buy a small, modern, cheap, infinitely capable
>> Chinesium EEPROM programmer. Read: the kind of practical, affordable,
>> sensical and useful equipment I usually steer away from. Ebay here I come.
>> Or make a programmer with an Arduino, since it's 5V.
> 
> Hmmm, you don't happen to be a subscriber to AvE's Youtube channel, perhaps?
> 
> --Chuck
> 
Why... Would that be good or would that be bad?
Keep your disk in a vice!
:-)
Marc

Re: Help on a 1998 Award BIOS chip

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Glen,

I think I wasn't thinking straight late last night when I finally found the 
chip was bad... I usually don't work on stuff that "new", so I was unfamiliar 
with the PLCC 32 format and have nothing to program it. I bet the reference of 
what chip it is hides just under the label! Assuming this is a run-off-the-mill 
EPROM chip, one should indeed be able to copy it with a semi-recent EPROM 
programmer (i.e., not mine...). Now, if it's one of these fancy Intel "Firmware 
Hubs" with copy protection, I am probably hosed. But I doubt it since there is 
an appropriately archaic CMOS settings chip next to it, so hopefully it is just 
a traditional ROM in a fancy package.

BTW to take a look at that bios, you have to take the plastic back off, then 
the metal cage back off, then the strip with the serial connectors off, then 
the power supply off. It's 15 minutes work and 16 screws...

In Dolch we trust.

Marc

> On Apr 16, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Glen Slick via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Surely you must have a PLCC capable device programmer hidden away
> somewhere in your not so secret basement lab. And if you don't have
> one, why haven't you built one up from an HP-85 and some GPIO
> adapters?
> 
> I also have a PAC 65. I'll have to open it up and take a look. Wish
> there weren't so many screws involved. Whatever that 32-pin PLCC part
> is I should be able to read its contents with my BP Microsystems
> BP-1610 device programmer. I could program a new one if I had some of
> the same part on hand.
> 
> -Glen