[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

And on the humble Univac 418 we had the FH330.  I have a picture of them 
somewhere

On April 15, 2024 1:47:01 p.m. EDT, Van Snyder via cctalk 
 wrote:
>On Mon, 2024-04-15 at 09:25 -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> Are drums usually word addressable?  That doesn't seem necessary, not unless 
>> you use them as main memory.
>
>Univac FH432, FH880, and FH1782 were word-addressable "flying head"
>drums, usually used for swap, on 1100-series and maybe 1219 as well.
>
>

[cctalk] Re: WWVB

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I have two watches that sync to WWVB and they always agree with CHU on HF and a 
ham rig that syncs to GNSS. So I think it is bang on or there is a government 
conspiracy to make us late for work  樂


On January 14, 2024 2:49:19 p.m. EST, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
 wrote:
>
>This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related
>but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer.
>
>I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK.
>It is supposed to get its time from WWVB.
>The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving
>WWVB is on.
>
>Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to".
>The clock is always wrong.  Slow by about 2 minutes.
>
>Is there a known problem with WWVB?
>
>bill

[cctalk] Re: Connecting MFM emulator as both 1st and 2nd drive in Microvax 2000?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

>From memory, when I looked into doing this I found that the RQDX3 BA23 
>distribution panel maps DS2 from the contriller to all DS pins on  the B cable 
>of one drive and DS3 to all DS lines on the other. I never did test the theory 
>though. I did not get a special adapter from decromancer.
Hope it helps
Nigel


On August 12, 2023 6:35:35 p.m. EDT, Peter Coghlan via cctalk 
 wrote:
>>
>> I have a Gesswein MFM emulator from decromancer.ca; who offer an adaptor
>> that yields a 2nd MFM data connector.
>> I'll use mine in a Microvax 2000.  Does anyone know how to hook it up as
>> two  MFM drives in a Microvax 2000?
>> 
>> The vendor sold a 1in high adaptor box, BA40A, with DD50 connectors to a
>> second cabinet (same as CPU box) for a second drive.
>> DEC configured both primary and secondary drives identically (drive 3, IIRC).
>> The Microvax 2000 Technical Manual gives the pinout from the mother board
>> to the MFM/floppy daughterboard, but I can't find the pinout from that
>> daughterboard to the cables anywhere.
>>
>> I've been looking for a BA40A, for some years now,  to trace the pin layout
>> for a 2nd drive.   Does anyone know it? 
>> Has anyone successfully configured a single MFM emulator  as two MFM drives
>> in a Microvax 2000?  Or to an RQDX3?
>>
>
>I've had two real MFM drives running with one of my VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000
>machines but it is a long time since I've looked at this stuff so I'm not
>certain of the details.
>
>I didn't use any adapter box or cables with DD connectors.  I only had the
>original DEC ribbon cable that connects from the VAX motherboard to one MFM
>drive and one RX33 floppy drive.  I used this as a guide to make up a new
>longer cable with an extra 34 pin edge connector in parallel with the first
>MFM drive control connector.  I ran this cable out through the hole in the
>bottom of the case where the cable to the adapter box was intended to run
>so that the added connector could be placed on an external MFM drive.
>I also connected a straight through 20 pin IDC to edge connector ribbon cable
>salvaged from a PC from the vacant 20 pin IDC connector on the VAX motherboard
>to the data connector on the second MFM drive, running it out through the
>same hole in the VAX case.
>
>IIRC I had to jumper the second MFM drive as drive 4.  Presumably I should
>have made a twist in the cable to allow the second MFM drive to be configured
>as drive 3, the same as the first drive.
>
>I think the first MFM drive showed up as DUA0, the second one as DUA1 and the
>floppy as DUA2.
>
>I recall an incident when I tried to connect one particular second MFM drive
>externally and the VAX refused to power up.  It seemed the overcurrent trip
>was operating in the power supply and the extra drive appeared to be the
>cause of this.  I'm a bit hazy on exactly what I did to try to get around
>this issue, I suspect I tried powering up the VAX with the drive disconnected
>and connecting it after power up.  Anyway, the upshot was that one or two of
>the conductors in the 20 pin data cable got extremely hot and the insulation
>on them started to smoke before I quickly switched off.  I'm not sure but I
>think the reason was that the particular drive placed an unfused +5V on some
>pins on the data connector and the corresponding pins were grounded at the
>VAX end.  Or it could be the other way around...  Luckily there was no damage
>to anything other than the cable.
>
>Regards,
>Peter Coghlan.

[cctalk] Re: Talking PDP11

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I wouldn't want to violate my NDA!

On July 11, 2023 12:42:57 p.m. EDT, Douglas Taylor via cctalk 
 wrote:
>Funny you mention that, I've got a Data Translation DT2766 and it is identical 
>to the AAV11-C.  I mean identical!  In the day DT must have sold them based on 
>2 selling points: (1) Cheaper than DEC and (2) Exact drop in replacement for 
>the DEC AAV11-C.
>
>Doug
>
>On 7/11/2023 12:33 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> You might try looking for Data Translation products. I know some of the 
>> later ad and da modules were made by them for DEC
>> 
>> On July 11, 2023 12:28:43 p.m. EDT, Douglas Taylor via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>>> The DACs on the AAV11-C board are not marked in any revealing way.  I think 
>>> they are Burr Brown DAC80, 24 pin, but I'm not sure.  I wasn't sure if they 
>>> were working and was looking for a replacement.
>>> 
>>> Looking at the spec sheets DAC's seem to come in Voltage or Current 
>>> versions.  Life got more complicated.
>>> 
>>> This started out as a simple exercise into verifying the AAV11-C operation 
>>> using PDP11GUI to program up a basic program to run all the codes thru the 
>>> DAC.  It worked, got a ramp out.  Now, I'm starting to look at the KWV11-C 
>>> and how to use that to send values to the DAC at a controllable rate.
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On 7/11/2023 11:41 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>>> I originally used R-2R DACs but I was lucky enough to be able to buy a 
>>>> couple of DAC08 chips at Radio Shack and built a circuit using 74LS244 
>>>> latching buffers so that I could drive both channels of a single 8-bit 
>>>> parallel port and 2 extra control lines (Select and Strobe).
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/11/2023 6:43 AM, ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/10/2023 11:31 PM AEST Mike Katz via cctalk  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Way back in the 80's I was able to do stereo 4 part harmony on a 2 MHZ
>>>>>> 6809 using two 8-bit D/A converters.
>>>>> Much the same here. I recounted this on VCFed a few months ago about 
>>>>> building a simple 2-chip 8-bit ladder DAC with one-transistor amplifier 
>>>>> for my Applied Technology DG680 S100 machine back in the early 80s from 
>>>>> this absolutely excellent BYTE article on how to do polyphonic synthesis 
>>>>> on a microcomputer (KIM-1):
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1977-09/page/n63/mode/2up
>>>>> 
>>>>> A schoolfriend who had an Apple ][ and had not done any Z80 machine code 
>>>>> before asked for me to hand him my Zaks book, upon which he wrote out one 
>>>>> attempt in Z80, crossed it out and wrote a second version. Which worked 
>>>>> perfectly. For the music piece I got it to play four-voice polyphony 
>>>>> after painstakingly encoding Bach's Praeludium in C Major from my 
>>>>> mothers' collection of piano music scores.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A few years ago I had thoughts about porting the 6502 code to the PDP-11 
>>>>> and use the same sort of ladder DAC. Not sure if the slimline 11/05 would 
>>>>> be fast enough for anything too high frequency, but if it was, the 
>>>>> slimline 05's power supply could then temporarily come out and be perhaps 
>>>>> be powered off some beefy batteries in that space, along with a small 
>>>>> 1970s transistor amp and 1970s headphones topped off with a leather 
>>>>> shoulder strap to lug it around like a giant Walkman.
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Talking PDP11

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

You might try looking for Data Translation products. I know some of the later 
ad and da modules were made by them for DEC

On July 11, 2023 12:28:43 p.m. EDT, Douglas Taylor via cctalk 
 wrote:
>The DACs on the AAV11-C board are not marked in any revealing way.  I think 
>they are Burr Brown DAC80, 24 pin, but I'm not sure.  I wasn't sure if they 
>were working and was looking for a replacement.
>
>Looking at the spec sheets DAC's seem to come in Voltage or Current versions.  
>Life got more complicated.
>
>This started out as a simple exercise into verifying the AAV11-C operation 
>using PDP11GUI to program up a basic program to run all the codes thru the 
>DAC.  It worked, got a ramp out.  Now, I'm starting to look at the KWV11-C and 
>how to use that to send values to the DAC at a controllable rate.
>
>Doug
>
>--
>
>On 7/11/2023 11:41 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>> I originally used R-2R DACs but I was lucky enough to be able to buy a 
>> couple of DAC08 chips at Radio Shack and built a circuit using 74LS244 
>> latching buffers so that I could drive both channels of a single 8-bit 
>> parallel port and 2 extra control lines (Select and Strobe).
>> 
>> On 7/11/2023 6:43 AM, ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote:
 On 07/10/2023 11:31 PM AEST Mike Katz via cctalk  
 wrote:
 Way back in the 80's I was able to do stereo 4 part harmony on a 2 MHZ
 6809 using two 8-bit D/A converters.
>>> Much the same here. I recounted this on VCFed a few months ago about 
>>> building a simple 2-chip 8-bit ladder DAC with one-transistor amplifier for 
>>> my Applied Technology DG680 S100 machine back in the early 80s from this 
>>> absolutely excellent BYTE article on how to do polyphonic synthesis on a 
>>> microcomputer (KIM-1):
>>> 
>>> https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1977-09/page/n63/mode/2up
>>> 
>>> A schoolfriend who had an Apple ][ and had not done any Z80 machine code 
>>> before asked for me to hand him my Zaks book, upon which he wrote out one 
>>> attempt in Z80, crossed it out and wrote a second version. Which worked 
>>> perfectly. For the music piece I got it to play four-voice polyphony after 
>>> painstakingly encoding Bach's Praeludium in C Major from my mothers' 
>>> collection of piano music scores.
>>> 
>>> A few years ago I had thoughts about porting the 6502 code to the PDP-11 
>>> and use the same sort of ladder DAC. Not sure if the slimline 11/05 would 
>>> be fast enough for anything too high frequency, but if it was, the slimline 
>>> 05's power supply could then temporarily come out and be perhaps be powered 
>>> off some beefy batteries in that space, along with a small 1970s transistor 
>>> amp and 1970s headphones topped off with a leather shoulder strap to lug it 
>>> around like a giant Walkman.
>> 
>

Re: Vax/pdp on ebay

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Sheesh!  and I have been on that site too!

Now I just need a model for the back part and I can send it to my friend
who does 3D printing!

Thanks

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-03-05 12:12 p.m., emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:
> On 2021-03-05 11:57, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote:
>> On 3/5/21 10:51, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>>> Speaking of badges, I have a BA23 that doesn't have one. It was an 11/73
>>> but that badge is gone, and I am trying to repair an 11/93 to go in
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Does anybody have a spare 11/73 badge for the BA23 that could be used as
>>> a model for a printed version that says 11/93?  I don't believe there
>>> ever was one for the BA23 chassis!  I have a BA123 micro VAX II badge
>>> going spare if anybody needs it, or to swap for an 11/73!
>>   I once had a pair of 11/93s that originally lived in BA23 pedestals,
>> and I'm fairly certain that they did have "MicroPDP 11/93" badges.
>>
>>   I'll look and see if I have any photos.
> That was pretty easy ;-)
>
> https://www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-93startpage.html
>

Re: Vax/pdp on ebay

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thanks, Doc, I was under the impression that they always were shipped in
the grey 'corporate cabinets'!

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-03-05 11:57 a.m., Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote:
> On 3/5/21 10:51, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> Speaking of badges, I have a BA23 that doesn't have one. It was an 11/73
>> but that badge is gone, and I am trying to repair an 11/93 to go in
>> there.
>>
>> Does anybody have a spare 11/73 badge for the BA23 that could be used as
>> a model for a printed version that says 11/93?  I don't believe there
>> ever was one for the BA23 chassis!  I have a BA123 micro VAX II badge
>> going spare if anybody needs it, or to swap for an 11/73!
>
>   I once had a pair of 11/93s that originally lived in BA23 pedestals,
> and I'm fairly certain that they did have "MicroPDP 11/93" badges.
>
>   I'll look and see if I have any photos.
>
>
> Doc

Re: Vax/pdp on ebay

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Speaking of badges, I have a BA23 that doesn't have one. It was an 11/73
but that badge is gone, and I am trying to repair an 11/93 to go in there.

Does anybody have a spare 11/73 badge for the BA23 that could be used as
a model for a printed version that says 11/93?  I don't believe there
ever was one for the BA23 chassis!  I have a BA123 micro VAX II badge
going spare if anybody needs it, or to swap for an 11/73!

Cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-03-05 11:46 a.m., Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On Mar 4, 2021, at 1:55 PM, Wayne S via cctalk  wrote:
>>
>> Is anyone from this list bidding on this.
>> If so i’ll back out. Just don’t want it to be “recycled “ and i have room 
>> for it.
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-DEC-BA23-Lot-Micro-PDP-11-73-VAXstation-3200-x2-VT220-x2-Extras-Docs/224368924502?hash=item343d6e1756:g:zp8AAOSwvWNgO9qe
> I’m relieved it’s not closer to me, or I’d be sorely tempted to go for that.  
> That’s a seriously nice pile of gear.  Especially as they have the right 
> badges on the pedestals.  I’m more interested in downsizing than adding more, 
> but that’s exactly the sort of thing that would tempt me.
>
> Zane
>
>
>

Re: Massbus - was: Re: VAX 11/750

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

On 2021-02-24 11:06 a.m., Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> On 02/24/2021 08:06 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> Sort of. MASSBUS was a very overpriced and to be honest weird system
>> that DEC developed in an attempt to be like IBM and charge very high
>> markups for generic peripherals. While it did support a variety of
>> interface formats (I don't think the RS03 and 04 were SMD, and I know
>> the RP07 was *not* SMD) the industry quickly centered on SMD and that
>> was that.
>>
> hhh, the RP07!  I have stories about that drive!
> It was a Burroughs mainframe drive they reprogrammed for DEC.  It had
> a number of issues.
> The worst one was that due to some microcode bugs, it was possible to
> trash an occasional track descriptor record.  When a bad TDR was read,
> the drive totally locked up, you had to cycle power to reset it.  VMS
> recovered from it quite gracefully, however.  They finally fixed it,
> it required replacing about 10 boards.  Then, there was a procedure to
> rewrite all the TDRs.  The DEC FE assured me it would not touch user
> data.  Well, after running the procedure, it came up as a blank disk! 
> YIKES!  A quick check at the binary level showed data was still on the
> drive, but the RMS-11 home block had been overwritten.  Well, I had a
> program that could examine the home blocks, and I knew where to find
> the backup home blocks.  So, I hacked that program to copy the backup
> block to the main one, and then change the checksums to agree.
>
> The other issue is the voice coil could suck dirty air in during long
> seeks, so they had ti replace the HDA and put a filter over the air
> exhaust from the voice coil.
>> Yes, the TM02 and TM03 formatters allowed MASSBUS to connect to
>> Pertec drives, but I don't think you could run a tape drive and a
>> disk drive on the same MASSBUS channel anyway. Wonder why,
>> technically the MASSBUS cable is just an extension of the Unibus, so
>> it shouldn't matter much what combination of cables you used. Maybe
>> they just wrote different drivers or something.
>>
> MASSBUS was not anything like a UNIBUS, it was a lot closer to an IBM
> channel bus and tag cable.
>>> Anybody knows if there was conversion kit to equip CDC 9762 and 9766
>>> type SMD drives into MASSBUS drives much like the TU81 could be
>>> turned into a TA81 (SDI)?
>>
> Well, just the guts inside an RM05, that was a 9762 drive relabeled by
> DEC.
>
Actually the RM05 was a 9766 - the 9762 was an RM03 when DEC re-packaged it


> Jon

Plessey/Dilog DCV54

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Has anybody got a DCV54 that they are using?

I am trying to get one working with David Gasswein's mfm board and
having no luck.

The controller is working fine with a standard floppy as an RX33, even
boots the MicroVAX from it.  But on-board diagnostics cannot format or
even recognise the mfm board as a winchester.

Just got the scope out today and found that the drive select lines are
being terminated OK on the mfm board, bit the controller is not even
dropping drive select. (Yes I have tried new cables)

Problem is I don't have anything old enough to test the mfm boards with
other than the Plessey controlelr!

I'm thinking there must be some on-board config that I am missing on the
controller. - It has never had a real mfm drive connected to it.

Any help appreciated,

Nigel



-- 
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: Mystery DEC cartridge tape drive

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

The TK25 IIRC

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-12 11:19 a.m., Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>
> This is a mystery.
> What DEC system used a CDC Sentinel DC300 cartridge tape drive?
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computer-DEC-BY5A5-E-Tape-Drive-77-014320/313416738022
>
>

Re: Reading ESDI disks

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'm talking about the DEC Q-BUS DSA world where there never was any ATA :-)


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-11 1:03 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 2/11/21 9:40 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> Doesn't ATA transfer the data in parallel?  ESDI uses the same two
>> connectors as MFM (20/36 IIRC) , and transfers the data serially.  The
>> difference between MFM and ESDI is that MFM transfers the raw analogue
>> data over the cable but ESDI transfers digital serial data.
>>
> I was speaking about the interface to the controller.  Of course, if you
> don't have the right controller, all bets are off.
>
> --Chuck
>

Re: Reading ESDI disks

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

On 2021-02-11 12:41 p.m., Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> On 2/11/21 9:33 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> I'm about to try the very same thing.
>>
>> I have a MicroVAX II with a sigma MSCP ESDI controller.  It can be set
>> for soft-secoring or various numbers of hard sectors.  That is what I
>> see is the big issue with these drives.
>>
>> A friend gave me two drives that had been written on a PC under *nix.
>
> There is little chance this will work for the same reason you can't use
> an arbitrary disk/controller combination for PC recovery.
>
>
Doesn't stop me trying, Al. Lots of things were achieved by people who
didn't know they couldn't do it!

My controller has settings for different sector sizes.  I owe it to my
friend to try!


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: Reading ESDI disks

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Doesn't ATA transfer the data in parallel?  ESDI uses the same two
connectors as MFM (20/36 IIRC) , and transfers the data serially.  The
difference between MFM and ESDI is that MFM transfers the raw analogue
data over the cable but ESDI transfers digital serial data.


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-11 12:36 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 2/11/21 9:25 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
>> What is the best way of dumping the contents of an ESDI disk?
>>
>> I have an original IBM Enhanced ESDI ISA controller board. Could that be
>> used under Linux? Or NetBSD/FreeNSD? I googled but didn't find much.
>>
>> Is there any other way of dumping the disk contents?
>>
>> In theory it should be just a matter of clocking the raw data and finding
>> the marks and extracting the data. Has anyone done something similar?
> I'm a little confused on this.  An ESDI drive, in my experience, behaves
> exactly like an ATA one, right down to the command set.   ESDI drives
> can be soft-or-hard sectored.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> --Chuck

Re: Reading ESDI disks

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'm about to try the very same thing.

I have a MicroVAX II with a sigma MSCP ESDI controller.  It can be set
for soft-secoring or various numbers of hard sectors.  That is what I
see is the big issue with these drives.

A friend gave me two drives that had been written on a PC under *nix.

I do have some cable problems which I have to work on, but my first
power-up revealed one of the drives and said it recognised the fact that
it had 36 sectors. However when I tried to read it, it hung.  More
experimentation needed, but I am sure if the controller will read the
blocks I will be able to extract an image to send to my friend to decode :-)

let's exchange notes as we proceed.  My effort is inter-twined with
various other actoivities so I can't say when.

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-11 12:25 p.m., Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> What is the best way of dumping the contents of an ESDI disk?
>
> I have an original IBM Enhanced ESDI ISA controller board. Could that be
> used under Linux? Or NetBSD/FreeNSD? I googled but didn't find much.
>
> Is there any other way of dumping the disk contents?
>
> In theory it should be just a matter of clocking the raw data and finding
> the marks and extracting the data. Has anyone done something similar?
>
> /Mattis

Re: Apple ][+ ic

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

The 'PC' just means plastic, commercial heat rating

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-10 2:43 p.m., David Schmidt via cctech wrote:
> On 2/10/21 1:00 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
>> So, I have an Apple ][+.  It is missing an IC at location a3 on the
>> motherboard.
>>
>> I don't know why.  it used to work... I think my mind is going.  I
>> have no
>> memory or removing it.  Anyway, I need another one.  The board is marked
>> 74166.
>>
>> Can I put any shift register IC with a similar part no, like this one:
>>
>> 74166PC | FAIRCHILD | IC DIP-16 Shift Register (icompplus.com)
>> 
>>
>> in there, or ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> mark aka john
>
> I have a mobo that has that very part (Fairchild 74166PC), so it's a
> good bet it'll work.
>
> - David

Re: resistor packs for terminating SCSI bus inside Exabyte 8020

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

All suppositions correct - (or was it suppositories ?)

I got the SIP resistor packs today from Digikey.  I ordered
4608X-4-221/331L but what came was marked just 8x-4-221-331L

Works fine, now Diloq SQ703 recognises the drive and built-in diags
print a response. NetBSD recogised it as a TK50.

Now I am waiting for a shipment of cassettes to try it out!

Thanks to all who had useful suggestions.

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-06 8:51 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:33 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> I have some 4608X-104-221/331L currently in my digikey shopping basket -
>> I will place order on Monday after I confirm that the two outside pins
>> go to Vcc and Fss and the six others go to signal pins on the bus.
>>
> I pulled the SIP packs out of my EXB-8200 because it is mounted in an
> external case and the next time I go to use it I would probably attach
> an external terminator to it without thinking that it was terminated
> internally.
>
> I measured ~91-Ohm between pin 1 and pin 8, which is the expected
> value for (6x) (220-Ohm + 330-Ohm) in parallel.
>
> I measured ~163-Ohm between pin 1 and each of pin 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
> That is the expected value for 330-Ohm in parallel with (220-Ohm in
> series with 110-Ohm ((5x) (220-Ohm + 330-Ohm) in parallel).
>
> I measured ~145-Ohm between pin 8 and each of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. That
> is the expected value for 220-Ohm in parallel with (330-Ohm in series
> with 110-Ohm ((5x) (220-Ohm + 330-Ohm) in parallel).
>
> So a 4608X-104-221/331L should be a functional equivalent (220-Ohm in
> common to pin 8, 330-Ohm in common to pin 1).

Re: resistor packs for terminating SCSI bus inside Exabyte 8020

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

On 2021-02-06 8:51 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:33 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> I have some 4608X-104-221/331L currently in my digikey shopping basket -
>> I will place order on Monday after I confirm that the two outside pins
>> go to Vcc and Fss and the six others go to signal pins on the bus.
>>
> I pulled the SIP packs out of my EXB-8200 because it is mounted in an
> external case and the next time I go to use it I would probably attach
> an external terminator to it without thinking that it was terminated
> internally.
>
> I measured ~91-Ohm between pin 1 and pin 8, which is the expected
> value for (6x) (220-Ohm + 330-Ohm) in parallel.
>
> I measured ~163-Ohm between pin 1 and each of pin 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
> That is the expected value for 330-Ohm in parallel with (220-Ohm in
> series with 110-Ohm ((5x) (220-Ohm + 330-Ohm) in parallel).
>
> I measured ~145-Ohm between pin 8 and each of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. That
> is the expected value for 220-Ohm in parallel with (330-Ohm in series
> with 110-Ohm ((5x) (220-Ohm + 330-Ohm) in parallel).
>
> So a 4608X-104-221/331L should be a functional equivalent (220-Ohm in
> common to pin 8, 330-Ohm in common to pin 1).


Thank you, Glen.  I will order some from Digikey on Monday.  So it seems
that the manual is lying when it says it has seven resistors - I didn't
think that was likely - in that case you would need a a separate pack
for the other side of the pull and there are 3 - not an even number.

I also powered up the unit and checked that I have 5V on on eend and
ground on the other, so all looks good.

Thanks to all for your help,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: resistor packs for terminating SCSI bus inside Exabyte 8020

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thanks for that. Pity the people who post on ebay don't give close-ups
of the resistor arrays!

My serial is 530573 so it should be a later rev that will work with the
cleaning cartridge.

I have some 4608X-104-221/331L currently in my digikey shopping basket -
I will place order on Monday after I confirm that the two outside pins
go to Vcc and Fss and the six others go to signal pins on the bus.

External not an option really - tight fit inside rack and more parts to
buy than three resistor packs!

Now off to browse ebay pictures :-)

Thanks again, Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-06 7:23 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 3:59 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> I stand corrected, my 8200 has 3x 8-pin sip sockets!
>>
>> Nigel
> OK, that matches my two EXB-8200 that I just looked at, and also these
> images from eBay listings:
>
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rh0AAOSwSdFe3p7v/s-l1600.jpg
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Cq4AAOSwFNFf8B9i/s-l1600.jpg
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Cr8AAOSwPbBf0Ajm/s-l1600.jpg
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/pkkAAOSwjylaob~P/s-l1600.jpg
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/C20AAOSwq4VaOqBm/s-l1600.jpg
>
> The first image above shows (3x) 8-pin SIP parts installed, which
> appear visually similar to the parts that are installed in the second
> EXB-8200 I have. I don't recognize the part number. It appears to be
> something like "WT04 9020", where "WT" could possibly be Walsin
> Technology. I can find some datasheets for Walsin Technology WT04
> surface mount resistor arrays, but not SIP parts. Maybe the "9020" is
> a date code, and these are obsolete parts from that vendor and
> datasheets are no longer available, or at least not easy to find.
>
> In any case, current Bourns 4608X-104-221/331L / 4608X-104-221/331LF
> or 4308R-104-221/331L parts might do the trick. (Or just cable it up
> for external termination).

Re: resistor packs for terminating SCSI bus inside Exabyte 8020

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I stand corrected, my 8200 has 3x 8-pin sip sockets!

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-06 5:48 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 1:26 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> Hi all, I wonder if anybody has one with the terminators installed that
>> can read off the p/n for these SIPs
>>
>> The manual says they are 8-pin 7 resistor 220/330 ones, but that is not
>> possible! To put 7 resistor pairs to 220 and 330 you need a 9-pin,
>> unless you have one resistor SIP for 220 and another for 330!  But there
>> are 2 so that leaves an odd number! The sockets are 9-pin.  I have yet
>> to find any 9-pin ones on digikey
>>
> I just took a look at one of my EXB-8200 tape drives. Unfortunately it
> wasn't set up for internal termination and the resistor packs were
> removed. It has (3x) 8-pin SIP sockets.
>
> Bourns 4608X-104-221/331L / 4608X-104-221/331LF and 4308R-104-221/331L
> parts are in stock at Mouser and Digi-Key. Those are 8-pin,
> 12-resistor dual termination networks.
>
> (3x) 4608X-104-221/331 parts would have the necessary number for
> terminations for single-ended SCSI:
>
> https://www.bourns.com/pdfs/scsi.pdf

Re: resistor packs for terminating SCSI bus inside Exabyte 8020

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I agree.  None on Digikey.  The manual says 7-resistor 8 pin, which is
impossible if one resistor on each pin goes to 5V and the other to Vss,
but the sockets are actually 9-pin!

If Chuck can give me a definite part number I will be on the way.  The
controller says it specifically supports an EXB 8200 so should be able
to make it work with a terminator!

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
 Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-06 6:28 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> ...and if a 9 pin SIP, the part number would be 4609X-104-221/331L.
>
> They're a bit harder to find.
>
> --Chuck
>

resistor packs for terminating SCSI bus inside Exabyte 8020

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Hi all, I wonder if anybody has one with the terminators installed that
can read off the p/n for these SIPs

The manual says they are 8-pin 7 resistor 220/330 ones, but that is not
possible! To put 7 resistor pairs to 220 and 330 you need a 9-pin,
unless you have one resistor SIP for 220 and another for 330!  But there
are 2 so that leaves an odd number! The sockets are 9-pin.  I have yet
to find any 9-pin ones on digikey

cheers,

Nigel


-- 
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: APL\360

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

It's actually 568.26.  Easy to work out, in Canada the gallon is defined
as being 454609 ten millionths of a cubic metre,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-02-01 11:40 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 2/1/21 8:10 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:
>> On 2021-02-01 10:59, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
>>> I do not know what a fluid ounce is, or how many are in a pint. 
>> not enough?
>> ;-)
>>
> Whose pint?   UK Imperial pint = 568 ml.  US liquid pint = 473 ml.
>
> Both are one-eighth of a gallon, but US and UK gallons differ.
>
> Trivia for today.
>
> --Chuck

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thanks Noel,

Yes, I tried to repair an 11/34 once after somebody plugged a peripheral
board into a memory slot - I was doing well after 3 or 4 chip chnages,
it started to come to life, until I found the 20V went right into an
d=address line of an in-house numbered ROM!

Having been warned by angels I will take another route!

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-30 11:51 p.m., Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> > From: Glen Slick
>
> > The KDJ11-E 11/93 has PMI signals on the CD connectors, so you need a
> > Q/CD backplane
>
> I have this bit set that plugging a PMI card into a Q/Q slot will damage it?
> (I think the issue is that some PMI pins are 12V on normal QBUS; too tired
> to check tonight, I'll get to it tomorrow.)
>
>   Noel

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Not so lucky n Canada!  They wanted $28 shipping!

So I got a box of 10 for $28 - but delivery end of Feb.

Back burner until then!

Thanks

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-31 12:28 a.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:16 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> I can't go very far with the EXB8200 because I don't have a cartridge
>> for it.  I am now trying the Compaq DLT4000.
>>
> You can still get boxes of sealed never used EXABYTE 112M 8mm data
> tapes cheap. For example a quick search turned up a box of 5 sealed
> tapes for $6 including shipping:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124081752928
>
> I didn't try searching for items located in Canada, I suppose that
> might make things a bit more expensive.

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thank you Jim, John, and Glen.

I'll see if I can find one to tryout.

Good night,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-30 8:52 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:41 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I bought at VCF East
>> last year (but one :-) )  Does anybody on the list have experience
>> getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
> I'm not sure if I have tried an EXB-8200 and Dilog SQ703 combination,
> I might have.
>
> I know I have used an EXB-8200 and CMD CQD-220/TM combination numerous
> times to install 2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 from tape on PDP-11 systems.
> That has worked well for me.
>
> I haven't done much with tape on MicroVAX systems.

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I can't go very far with the EXB8200 because I don't have a cartridge
for it.  I am now trying the Compaq DLT4000.

Unfortunately there is not a lot the on-board Dilog diagnostics can do. 
I have tried sedning direct commands to it such as unload, but nothing
ha[p[pens.it is my oinly hope to get some tapoe backup!

If I try:

dd if=/dev/mt0
of=/dev/null  

I get dd: /dev/mt0: Input/output error

But if I try another LUN I get e.g.

dd: /dev/mt1: Device not configured   

So it looks like it is recognising the drive.

Maybe Compaq DLTs required something that the controller of NetBSD
driver does no know about.

Since I have lost the MTI TSV05 QIC2 controller

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-30 8:52 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:41 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I bought at VCF East
>> last year (but one :-) )  Does anybody on the list have experience
>> getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
> I'm not sure if I have tried an EXB-8200 and Dilog SQ703 combination,
> I might have.
> I know I have used an EXB-8200 and CMD CQD-220/TM combination numerous
> times to install 2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 from tape on PDP-11 systems.
> That has worked well for me.
>
> I haven't done much with tape on MicroVAX systems.

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thanks, Glen.  I got out of direct field work around that time, and set
up a subsidiary of Emulex in Canada - so I was more concerned with sales
figures than buses.  That makes perfect sense, I had forgotten about the
11/94. Funny how all my controllers are now Dilog, Plessey, and Sigma :-)

btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) )  Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-30 7:19 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:58 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> OK, thanks, Glen, i didn't think of that! Not sure why they would do
>> that with all memeory on-board!
>>
> The PMI interfaces of the KDJ11-B and KDJ11-E modules are used to
> interface to the M8191 KTJ11-B UNIBUS adaptor in the PDP-11/84 and
> PDP-11/94 systems.

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

OK, thanks, Glen, i didn't think of that! Not sure why they would do
that with all memeory on-board!

One thing I though of was just buying some IDC 36-pin card edge
connectors and wiring them together for the work bench!

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-30 6:08 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 2:20 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> Yes the BA11S would be too big. Can't see why not for the 11/03 chassis.
>> I used to make a good living upgrading 1/03 chasses with four extra bits
>> for the 11/23/73  (Hmm, where is my old stock of W933 bus strip!)
>> Always works except in the MINC laboratory system, which used those four
>> pins for module identification.
>>
>> Since all the memory is on-board with the 11/93 I don't think it would
>> make a difference unless DMA used, and I don't plan to go that far!  I
>> could always wire-wrap them.
> The KDJ11-E 11/93 has PMI signals on the CD connectors, so you need a
> Q/CD backplane, such as the 18-bit 4x9 H9273, the 22-bit 4x9 H9276, or
> the 22-bit 4x8 H9278 (BA23 backplane).
>
> The 4x4 H9270 is a Q/Q backplane, so that would cause a conflict with
> the PMI signals on the CD connectors of the KDJ11-E 11/93.

Re: Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Yes the BA11S would be too big. Can't see why not for the 11/03 chassis.
I used to make a good living upgrading 1/03 chasses with four extra bits
for the 11/23/73  (Hmm, where is my old stock of W933 bus strip!) 
Always works except in the MINC laboratory system, which used those four
pins for module identification.

Since all the memory is on-board with the 11/93 I don't think it would
make a difference unless DMA used, and I don't plan to go that far!  I
could always wire-wrap them.

Can you ship to Toronto, ON?  How much?

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-30 4:14 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Hm. I have a 9 slot BA11-S that I have to sell/ebay/something here,
> but that's probably way too big for you. I wonder though: Would an
> 11/93 explode if put in a traditional 18 bit 11/03 chassis? The one
> with the memory refresh lines and power for core memory.
>
> Probably.
>
> CZ
>
> On 1/30/2021 12:30 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> I'm trying to repair an LSI-11/93 that has a bus timeout problem.
>> Unfortunately the BA23 box it normally sits in lives in a cupboard with
>> printers stowed on top of it and due to my domestic situation (small
>> condo) I can't get it out to scope or get a scope anywhere near it to
>> scope the bus.
>>
>> I'm thinking that the solution would be to get a small QBUS backplane
>> that I can put on my desk in the middle of my test equipment.
>>
>> Like a 4-slot ABAB oir even ABCD would do.
>>
>> Does anybody have one they don't want?  Power supply not needed.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>

Small DEC QBUS backplane

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'm trying to repair an LSI-11/93 that has a bus timeout problem. 
Unfortunately the BA23 box it normally sits in lives in a cupboard with
printers stowed on top of it and due to my domestic situation (small
condo) I can't get it out to scope or get a scope anywhere near it to
scope the bus.

I'm thinking that the solution would be to get a small QBUS backplane
that I can put on my desk in the middle of my test equipment.

Like a 4-slot ABAB oir even ABCD would do.

Does anybody have one they don't want?  Power supply not needed.

cheers,

Nigel

-- 

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Dilog SQ703 Manual anybody?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'd like to get a Dilog SQ703 I have to work on my microvax, does
anybody know where I can get a copy of the manual?

cheers,

Nigel

-- 
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: Rod Coleman's personal history of founding, building & running SAGE

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

For one exciting moment there I thought that you were talking about the
Semi-Automatic Ground Environment - which a friend of mine was a tech on
in North Bay, ON, part of the DEW line!

I was getting ready to up stakes and hop off to Philadelphia!

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2021-01-02 8:44 p.m., Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 7:11 PM Liam Proven via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
>> This may be old news -- it was new to me, though.
>>
>>
>> https://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/search/label/Booting%20Sage%20Computer
>>
>> I'm not really familiar with SAGE machines. They were not as
>> well-known in the UK, I think, being upmarket from the Apple ][ and
>> IBM PC, both of which were eye-wateringly expensive by UK standards of
>> the time.
>>
>> Also, they were terminal-based things and even back then I was
>> interested in boxes with graphics. :-)
>>
> There is a SAGE II at Kennett Classic.  When I give tours I like to compare
> and contrast the SAGE with the IBM PC, Motorola 68000 vs Intel 8086.
>
> If anyone is in the Philadelphia area stop by and we can fire them up.
> Pascal.
>
> Bill
>

Re: Emails going to spam folder in gmail

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Yes, I know.  I have an email from 2005 saying that I was forced to give
it up 'a few years ago' with them saying they were being discontinued,
but don't have the original email.  I lost some stuff when I converted
from Eudora to Thunderbird.  However I dropped my membership of the
computer society and printed the ieee address on all my cards, so didn't
go back.

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-12-29 11:23 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> My original email alias was from computer.org.  Then I got a mysterious
>> email saying that they were no longer going to offer computer.org email
>> aliases, so I switched to ieee.org.
>
> Really? When did that happen, you should still be able to re-sign up
> for one using that link. Give it a try.
>
>> I had one site refuse to let me use my ieee.org email address to log on
>> since the initial request came from a google server!  He called it a
>> freemail account!
>
> That I can believe. Strangely enough when we built it we assumed that
> people would simply use the From: header as computer.org so they could
> get replies. However this breaks a lot of SPF obviously (because
> computer.org is not going to say they support coming from you) but spf
> didn't exist back then.
>
> Ah well. Still cool though. Let me know if it still works for you and
> if you have that message forward it to me off list.
>
> CZ
>
>>
>> Strange world we live in!
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> NIgel
>>
>> IEEE member for 20+ years now - so I missed the computer society debacle
>> of which you speak.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>> Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-12-29 10:43 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>>> You're kidding? I actually *wrote* the entire E-account, E-Alias, and
>>> E-commerce system used by the IEEE Computer Society back in 1995, and
>>> I keep my membership because of the mail forwarding to my home address.
>>>
>>> Amazingly enough the forms I developed are still used, and I'd guess
>>> the back end code as well. Not bad for 25 years.
>>> http://cs-ems.ieee.org/
>>>
>>> I left the Computer Society in 2000 after that complete fuckage
>>> takeover trick by Daniel Senese from the IEEE. Since then they haven't
>>> done much of a thing to support either computing or technology.
>>> Innovation there pretty much died...
>>>
>>> The fact that they would use a non-standard, monopoly, proprietary,
>>> privacy stealing email solution is just not a surprise at all.
>>>
>>> Ah well, things happen. We did have an amazing run there for 6 years
>>> but all good things
>>>
>>> CZ
>>>
>>> On 12/29/2020 10:07 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>>>> The IEEE also uses google!
>>>>
>>>> One of my NetBSD correspondents simply blocks all mail from google
>>>> servers on his system!
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Nigel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>>>> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>>>> Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2020-12-29 10:04 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>>>>>> Google has more resources than me. How about they update their
>>>>>> systems to
>>>>>> match Internet email standards?
>>>>>
>>>>> The big problem isn't google doing it: They can do whatever they
>>>>> want.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem comes when state and local governments switch to google
>>>>> mail services and now your constituents can no longer contact their
>>>>> govt officials. This happens here and it is *extremely* annoying.
>>>>>
>>>>> CZ

Re: Emails going to spam folder in gmail

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

My original email alias was from computer.org.  Then I got a mysterious
email saying that they were no longer going to offer computer.org email
aliases, so I switched to ieee.org. 

I had one site refuse to let me use my ieee.org email address to log on
since the initial request came from a google server!  He called it a
freemail account!

Strange world we live in!

cheers,

NIgel

IEEE member for 20+ years now - so I missed the computer society debacle
of which you speak.



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-12-29 10:43 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> You're kidding? I actually *wrote* the entire E-account, E-Alias, and
> E-commerce system used by the IEEE Computer Society back in 1995, and
> I keep my membership because of the mail forwarding to my home address.
>
> Amazingly enough the forms I developed are still used, and I'd guess
> the back end code as well. Not bad for 25 years. http://cs-ems.ieee.org/
>
> I left the Computer Society in 2000 after that complete fuckage
> takeover trick by Daniel Senese from the IEEE. Since then they haven't
> done much of a thing to support either computing or technology.
> Innovation there pretty much died...
>
> The fact that they would use a non-standard, monopoly, proprietary,
> privacy stealing email solution is just not a surprise at all.
>
> Ah well, things happen. We did have an amazing run there for 6 years
> but all good things....
>
> CZ
>
> On 12/29/2020 10:07 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> The IEEE also uses google!
>>
>> One of my NetBSD correspondents simply blocks all mail from google
>> servers on his system!
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>> Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-12-29 10:04 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>>>> Google has more resources than me. How about they update their
>>>> systems to
>>>> match Internet email standards?
>>>
>>> The big problem isn't google doing it: They can do whatever they want.
>>>
>>> The problem comes when state and local governments switch to google
>>> mail services and now your constituents can no longer contact their
>>> govt officials. This happens here and it is *extremely* annoying.
>>>
>>> CZ

Re: Emails going to spam folder in gmail

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

The IEEE also uses google!

One of my NetBSD correspondents simply blocks all mail from google
servers on his system!

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-12-29 10:04 a.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> Google has more resources than me. How about they update their
>> systems to
>> match Internet email standards?
>
> The big problem isn't google doing it: They can do whatever they want.
>
> The problem comes when state and local governments switch to google
> mail services and now your constituents can no longer contact their
> govt officials. This happens here and it is *extremely* annoying.
>
> CZ

Re: Macro-10 humour

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Nothing can beat HCF!

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-12-14 2:39 p.m., Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> Byte magazine in the late 70’s had a list of funny mnemonics like this.
>
> My fav was 
> SDSD - Seek Data and Scar Disk.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 14, 2020, at 07:54, Don Stalkowski via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I came across this among some junk I had.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> .TY NEMON.DOC
>>
>> LEVEL 5  MACRO-10   MNEMONICS
>> =
>>
>>
>>
>>   COINCIDENT WITH THE RELEASE OF THE LEVEL 5 MONITOR SERIES, THE
>> MNEMONICS FOR THE HARDWARE INSTRUCTIONS USED IN THE MACRO-10
>> ASSEMBLER HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT CHANGES TO THE MONITOR, AND
>> NEW OPERATING PROCEDURES. ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE NOT ALL BEEN IMPLEMENTED
>> AS YET, A PARTIAL LISTING FOLLOWS:
>>
>> TRCETRANSLATE REDUNDANT CODE TO ETHIOPIAN
>> ROTCREQUEST OPERATOR TAKE OFF CLOTHES
>> TDCETRY TO DUMP CORE EVERYWHERE
>> HRRHASH RELOCATION REGISTERS
>> XCTEXTEND CYCLE TIME
>> ANDCMBALLOW NO DIRECT CURRENT IN MEMORY BANKS
>> AOSEALERT ONE SYSTEMS ENGINEER
>> SETNMSTART EJECTING TRANSISTORS AT NEAREST MACHINE
>> SETCMSTOP EVERYTHING TO CRASH MONITOR
>> SETAMSTART EATING TAPE ON ALTERNATE MONDAYS
>> TLCNTHROW LIFEPRESERVER INTO CHANNEL FOR NON-SWIMMER
>> MULMMONITOR UPDATE FROM LUNAR MODULE
>> MOVMSMAINTAIN ONLY VARIABLE MAGTAPE SPEED
>> FSBRIFIVE SONIC BOOMS OVER REMOTE INTERFACE
>> HRRESHIJACK REMOTE READER TO ENGINEERING SCIENCE
>> HRREMHALT AND REVERSE ROTATION ON EVERY MAGTAPE
>> JUMPEJUMBLE USERS' MEMORY ON PARITY ERROR
>> IDPBIMMEDIATELY DROP PARITY BIT
>> SETCAISUDDENLY ELECTRIFY TERMINAL ON CRUDELY ARTICULATED INPUT
>> JFFOJAIL AND FINGERPRINT FLIPPANT OPERATOR
>> ORCMBOPERATOR REQUEST TO CHANGE MAIN BATTERIES
>> SKIPSEARCH FOR KNOT IN INPUT STRING
>> SKIPLSKIP ON KNOT IN POWER LINE
>> ORCBIORDER REDUNDANT CHANNELS TO THE BACK OF THE I/O BUS
>> SUBISTART UNLOADING BAGGAGE FROM THE I/O BUS
>> PUSHPUNCH USING SEMI-CIRCULAR HOLES
>> JUMPLJUMP AND UNRAVEL MAIN POWER LINE
>> SOSLSMEAR OUTPUT ON SLOW LINE PRINTERS
>> TRONTRY TO REWIND OPERATORS' NECKTIE
>> SOSNSEND OUTPUT TO SUPERVISORS' NECKTIE
>> AOBJNADD ONE BIT TO JOB NUMBER
>> IMULMINSIST THAT MALICIOUS USERS BE LOCKED IN MEMORY
>> FMPRFORGET MEMORY PROTECTION AND RELOCATION
>> FMPRBFAKE MONITOR PROBLEMS AND RESET BRIEFLY
>> CAIECHANGE ADDRESSING TO INEFFECTIVE FROM EFFECTIVE
>> TRNTRANSLATE TO ROMAN NUMERALS
>> DPBDETACH PROCESSOR BRIEFLY
>> DIVBDECODE INTEGERS TO VERIFIED BRAILLE
>> SETCAISNICKER ON ERRONEOUS TYPEIN FOR CAI
>> DIVMBDESTROY INDIVIDUAL MEMORY BANK
>> ORCBOUTPUT A RECORD CODED IN BRAILLE
>> TRCETRANSFER ON ROMAN CATHOLIC ENGINEER
>> TLNETRANSFER ON LUTHERAN ENGINEER
>> TROATRANSFER ON ATHEIST
>> SOSSERVICE ONLY STUDENTS
>> SOJGSERVICE ONLY JEWISH GRAD STUDENTS
>> TDCTAKE DISK TO CHIROPRACTER
>> TSCATURN SYSTEM CLOCK AHEAD
>> FADRBFILTER AIR ON DETECTING ROPE BURNING
>> FADMFILTER AIR ON DETECTING MOUNTIE
>> PUSHJPROCESS USER'S SHORTHAND JOB
>> TDCATYPE DOCUMENTATION, CENSORING ANECDOTES
>> MOVEMMONITOR OUTPUTS A VULGAR ERROR MESSAGE
>> ADDMALLEVIATE DELAYS IN DECTAPE MOUNTING
>> AOSLAWAKEN OPERATOR IF SNORING LOUDLY
>> CAIECENSOR ALL INPUT FROM ENGINEERING
>> DPBDISPLAY PASSWORDS FROM BATCH
>> FSBMFAST SPLICE OF BROKEN MAGTAPE
>> BLTBEGIN LOSING TIME
>> S0JGSTACK OPERATOR (JUST GIRLS)
>> TSONTIME SLICE OF ONE NANOSECOND
>> JRSTJOG 'ROUND SEVEN TRACK TAPE
>> TSCTRANSFER SWAPPING TO CARDS
>>

Re: when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'm pretty sure the DEC VT100 didn't have it.  It was very memory
-limited - the standard was 80x 24 and if you wanted 132 x 24 you had to
buy the advanced video option.

There was a demo program that made it look like it recovered data that
had been scrolled off the top of the screen, but I think it was just
re-sent form the computer.

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-12-13 9:37 p.m., Stan Sieler via cctalk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> First, apologies if I asked this years ago (I've searched my archives, no
> hits :)
>
> When was the concept of memory "above" the screen invented for terminals?
>
> I.e., previously displayed data that had scrolled up and off the screen ...
> but could be retrieved (usually by scrolling down).
>
> (Sometimes called "scrollback", or "offscreen memory".)
>
> (BTW, I'm talking about terminal-local memory, not a scrollback implemented
> by the computer to which the terminal is connected.)
>
> The HP 2640A, 1974, had (IIRC) several pages of memory available ... the
> user could scroll
> backwards and see what had been on the screen before it scrolled off (as
> long
> as it hadn't been lost by having too much subsequent output).
>
> I suspect the DEV VT100, 1978, had it, but I can't find definitive proof
> online (sure, I can find VT102 emulators that have scrollback, but reading
> an old VT102 manual doesn't make it clear that it has it.)
>
> thanks,
>
> Stan

Re: Microvax 3100 VMS 7.3 password reset.

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Try this:

http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/odl/vax/opsys/vmsos73/vmsos73/6017/6017pro_009.html#emerg_startup_uaf


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2020-11-11 9:11 a.m., devin davison via cctalk wrote:
> I picked up a microvax 3100 this past weekend from a office that was
> shutting down.
>
> I was able to start the system up, it boots up to a login prompt for VMS
> VAX 7.3.
>
> I do not have any login info for this machine, is there a procedure i can
> follow to reset a password to an account?
>
>
>
> Image of system :
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/43bG0nSx/2020-090018.jpg

Re: paging Jerome Fine

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I just spoke to Jerome on the phone a few days ago.  He just doesn't
answer emails!

I will be going to his house sometime in the near future, is there a
message?
cheers,
Nigel

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 30/09/2020 13:09, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> Anyone know if Jerome Fine is still around and/or a good email address?
>

Re: Diloq SQ703 to SQ706 conversion

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thanks for the reply, Glen.

Now, I am not sure where I got that info from, but I believe it was from
this list or maybe netbsd-vax.

My SQ703s have an unpopulated area near the 50 pin connector, and are of
one of the later versions. I have always assumed that was for extra
drivers to do differential SCSI. Is it possible that your board with the
external drivers is for DI?  Or maybe it was an earlier version?

Either way, is your 706 the one without the daughter board?  I have also
heard that the board is capable of doing TMSCP as well as MSCP, but I
can't see doing it at the same time because the register addresses would
be different.

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 16/08/2020 20:58, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 8:24 AM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> So I would like to convert a brand-new DQ703 I have to SQ706 so I can
>> mount SCSI disks.
>>
>> I understand it is just  a prom change.
>>
>> Does anybody have any info, or perhaps a PROM image?
>>
> The two Dilog SQ703 and SQ706 boards that I have are not physically
> identical. One has a SCSI bus driver daughter board and the other does
> not. I don't know if the firmware is swappable between the two. I
> never got around to trying that before the TMSCP board died. The MSCP
> board still worked fine the last time I used it.
>
> I also have a couple of the later SQ3703 and SQ3706 S-handle versions
> of the boards. On those I did swap the MSCP firmware into the TMSCP
> board and it then worked fine as an MSCP version.

Re: Diloq SQ703 to SQ706 conversion

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Chris, if I had that ESDI drive I could at least get a system onto the
machine to explore further!

Where are you? Could you mail it to me in Toronto, Canada?

How much moolah do you need to do this?

cheers,

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 16/08/2020 15:16, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Don't know much about the Dilogs (other than there were tape and disk
> versions) but ESDI disks can still be found on Ebay, I have a spare
> 150mb drive if you need it. They are quite quick all things
> considered, and some of the ESDI controllers had pretty good hardware
> acceleration features in addition to block and burst mode DMA.
>
> C
>
> (running 327mb ESDI disks on my 11 and am very happy with performance)
>
> On 8/16/2020 11:24 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> I'm getting back to trying to restore my MicroVax II.  Existing
>> controllers are ESDI and MFM, disks hard to find.
>>
>> So I would like to convert a brand-new DQ703 I have to SQ706 so I can
>> mount SCSI disks.
>>
>> I understand it is just  a prom change.
>>
>> Does anybody have any info, or perhaps a PROM image?
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>

Diloq SQ703 to SQ706 conversion

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'm getting back to trying to restore my MicroVax II.  Existing
controllers are ESDI and MFM, disks hard to find.

So I would like to convert a brand-new DQ703 I have to SQ706 so I can
mount SCSI disks.

I understand it is just  a prom change.

Does anybody have any info, or perhaps a PROM image?

cheers,

Nigel

-- 
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: RK11-D "diskless" test ZRKJE0???

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

The error signal was wire-or'ed through up to four drives, so it must be
terminated somewhere - IIRC there was a Unibus terminator in the last
drive, but it has been 45 years since I worked on them, the little grey
cells are fading _\:-)

cheers, Nigel

Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 09/07/2020 20:02, Robert Armstrong via cctech wrote:
>   I have an 11/04 with an RK11-D.  I have a couple of RK05s, but I
> wanted to test the controller before I start working on the drives. 
> The PDP11 Diagnostic Handbook says that ZRKJ?? "checks only the
> drive-independent logic of the RK11 controller. no drive is
> needed..."  I assumed that meant it was a diskless test, but now I'm
> not sure that's true.  Can anyone confirm or deny this? Does anyone
> have a listing of ZRKJE0?
>
>   My RK11-D has the BC11 drive cable plugged into the backplane, but
> the free end of the cable is just lying on the floor.  No drive is
> connected.  The test fails with
>
>     RK11 LOGIC TEST I
>     MAINDEC-11-DZRKJ-E
>
>     REGISTER NOT CLEARED
>       PC   REGADD    RECVD
>     002560  177402  10
>
>  177402 is the RKER register and bit 15 is DRE - "Drive Error".
> According to the manual this bit is set when the AC power to the drive
> is lost, which given that I don't have a drive at all, doesn't sound
> unreasonable.  Continuing ZRKJ?? also gives
>
>     REGISTER NOT CLEARED
>       PC   REGADD    RECVD
>     002560  177404  140200
>
>     RKCS ERROR
>       PC    WROTE   READ
>     002636  02  140202
>
> 177404 is the RKCS register and the first two bits are ERROR and HARD
> ERROR.  These are both set by the DRE bit in RKER and aren't really a
> surprise.
>
>   I'm starting to wonder if this diagnostic really works w/o a drive
> attached, or if these errors are expected.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>

Re: Ancient transistor ?computer board (Peter Van Peborgh)

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I just copied the email to a friend who was at CDC ad he says they were
from the CDC3100.

cheers,

Nigel


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 07/07/2020 13:29, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On Jun 18, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Peter Van Peborgh via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> OK, now here are some pics that should be available to everybody. I hope.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/h64tye8ecmPHQfJD7
>>
>> Smells of (early) 1960s transistorized.  
>> No helpful marking apart from 
>> *"GATE JJ01" on SIDE A. (components).
>> *"C NT OL DATA" on side B (solder traces).
>>
>> Big transistors are Motorola "180376008". Also, any ideas what the "246 636
>> B" boxes are, they have four legs?
>>
>> A curse on TinyURL and praise to Camiel Vanderhoven.
>>
>> peter
> Since CDC was mentioned I forwarded the question to a list of CDC people and 
> CDC system hobbyists.  Here's a reply that may be useful:
>
>> On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:59 PM, Joe Cychosz <3ksn...@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Originally I said not CDC but I found this on ebay.
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CONTROL-DATA-Computer-Module-PCB-196Os/283900083657
>>
>> I had seen boards like this earlier and have a few but they are LEC 
>> (lockhead electronics corporation).  Interesting this one has lec on 1 side 
>> and cdc on the other side.  I suspect CDC manufactured these for LEC.  CDC 
>> could have been secondary contractor for Lockhead on a government project.
>>
>> Joe

Re: More DECnet/E items

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

No, I spoke to him in April/May and had  a date booked to go and pick up
stuff from his home, but then the warning about social distancing came
about and he told me to postpone.

At the time he was moving from his house and wanted everything gone, but
I don't know if he has done that yet as he has not called to re-schedule
the pickup of what he is throwing out :-(

cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 03/07/2020 04:43, Jonas Otter via cctalk wrote:
> On 2020-07-02 19:00,jw...@classiccmp.org wrote:
>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 12:51:42 -0500
>> From: 
>> To: "'Paul Koning'" , "'General Discussion:
>>  On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" ,  "'Tony
>>  Nicholson'" 
>> Subject: RE: More DECnet/E items
>> Message-ID: <001801d64fd0$47911290$d6b337b0$@classiccmp.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> --
>> Nice.  I looked at fixing RT11 RTS applications like MACRO, but that's not
>> possible because the RT11 date format stops in the early 21st century (5 bit
>> year field).  Perhaps RT-11 has created a solution, but if so I don't know
>> it.
>> --
>>
>> It was my understanding that Jerome Fine did y2k fixes (commercially) for
>> rt11 years ago. Is he still around the list?
>>
>> J
> Apparently Jerome Fine has not posted anything since July 2016. I believe he 
> is/was retired and fairly old, it might be that he is deceased.
>

Re: IBM System/370 turns 50 years old

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I remember the day!  I was in school then, and had  an older friend who 
worked at IBM.  He had previously told me that they had bought the 
entire (416)360 exchange for their offices, and I asked him if they were 
all going to change to 370 now!


cheers,

Nigel



Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org



On 30/06/2020 16:44, Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote:

Happy birthday to the 370! Looks like it was released to the press on 30
June 1970.

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PR370.html

Kyle

Re: PDP-11 tape question

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Sometimes I had only lunch hour to do PMs, and one office worker always 
ate into my time because she had to 'finish something'.


Pretty soon I found that  [ 2 ; 9 y would put all ANSI terminals 
into continuous self-test, and that solved the problem:-)


Those were the days!

cheers,

Nigel


On 24/06/2020 17:12, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 6/24/20 1:23 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:


The 1052 Selectric console on the 360's were not on a channel, but
driven via direct I/O directly from the CPU microcode.  (Yes, the
console has a pseudo channel address that made you THINK it was on a
channel, but it actually wasn't.)

One prank to pull on an operator was to write a CCW chain to ring the
1052 bell and then to a TIC back to the bell ring CCW.

At least on DOS/360, pretty much impossible to kill without doing an
IPL, as the keyboard would be locked.

Fun from my younger days.

--Chuck


--
Nigel Johnson, Sc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org

Re: IBM vacuum tubes

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

An electronic parrot in the vacuum tube days? -- must have been very large!

On 22/06/2020 07:56, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:

Thanks!  What is the secret decoder ring that tells you 188 means GE?

EIA manufacturer codes. These were often applied to private and house
branded labelled tubes. Other numbers are 274 for RCA, 280 for
Raytheon, 158 for DuMont, and so forth.

EIA codes were used for non-tube electronic parrots.

--
Will


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Unknown Intel blinkenlight panel circa 1973

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I remember that shortage of memory chips. People in my office were all 
blaming it the Ayatollah Khomeni!


On 16/06/2020 20:13, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 6/16/20 2:29 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:


It's a stack of 16 memory cards covered in 4116 DRAMs and a couple of
control/management  boards that cable over to the 11/70 the same way a
DEC MK11 box does.

Oh yeah--I remember when 4116/2116 DRAMs were still new and in short
supply.   The local Intel sales rep dropped off a number of 2108s
("half-good" 2116s) as a stopgap.  There was a suffix on each one that
specified whether the bank (there were two "banks" in the 2116), should
be high or low.

I still have a few of those.   Interestingly enough, some weren't bad
enough that prevented me from using them as 16Kb parts.

In any case, they were a BIG improvement over the 22-pin 0.400" 2107
commodity parts.

--Chuck


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Ancient transistor ?computer board

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I get the same, no matter how carefully I cut and paste either link.

Sure looks like a standard NO-ENTRY road sign to me!

Nigel ve3id


On 16/06/2020 12:00, Richard Pope via cctalk wrote:

Chuck,
    I get the same thing!
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 6/16/2020 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Sorry, Peter, but when pasting your links into my browser, I get a white
square with a circle with a hyphen in the center.  Nothing more.

Perhaps it's a permission issue?

--Chuck



On 6/16/20 7:51 AM, Peter Van Peborgh via cctalk wrote:

Guys,

I have acquired this board and have trouble assigning it to a 
particular

computer manufacturer and type:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/byRPH3wCR2aqxGX9U8BZfFTT_XtF7QCKSyVXoNmGIk 

UheiJ5BWqxYaCWdEshppLGYkOqUD7fl9XNeVzO_tDRKVOtbC3Js7T-pOvNUHs9MY9A36fc7dU6ro 

1i7hx9Uhcfc6ukEGIdC5Ac6aTQhEFFoeWBxiI6Z24hZdvq1r6vRb4o-Lj778Wbo15hwxu0JxMuxE 

tcopNv0FG0_g6nUv0Eofalqu4TmgPfUWVCd4Y4LdA0pnhDRMYF5c2ASzS00TsyukCVrUyr298tjo 

vztVzUGEPHNL1beVCriuQIBLITaEMX3N8EBDuxpfav0vHFuyy9yfAgUI4uJB9qT6aFGEk2KplIVt 

yNWZf9phTdj-jLtqns9WvdA9Ur2klrk4uPzMyWg6SKTKRlpMrvbJuMnqZodzxPFPvWCG5--kVVBD 

KRAXW8xOTOPyxXx0xrcPifO49ni2SFYIkZgTb9d4gzvJaM8ugEb-jqHlc7uqHz5glwe4PfoN838w 

zMozr43veZSNHRTm9IMfON-w7xvbVufJpa_MzhuaTlKf9pvVcRIuxfhG4pMeVq7K6phhHpsKPfG5 

h4BRgDSimCE8mToI35IWS3Ty8j01-6bibKH_kB-t35aIdkv7JIC-YZ1sDoguSdyk8h1xbM2d9i_U 

LFQYVC0oCHESgEGdqzGO3ntgwmV4khjgaQkcp2Bk-TuC7Nwrl57JI=w654-h871-no?authuser= 


0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HvltevPwIvyJF0qiAJR6wCAkI4lHfFGL2Gos5uoT4a 

qEJNFBAwJ3m6XX8E6k0m515EYgZJMaCwFGXiGiTCkxDeT396EjsbkukK3_XYqNDjfU8o3Pbtdq8z 

vm_q7MXShANXVFUL2wjXEbAhvBug1h42tZnxpDaxTCeNIHjqF2bgs6J_S3wCjmx538E4AuHCHxrr 

CqIr8yvL7AGlZXCWe8u05YNNZbIrUCYHbTtxh15hc0SwfRPzQ2U2v-pPxHs7-rx5mPpwxovbp24a 

CdwLBf5RRvvEZWZgyDGKG8xdF-al4kQdZMgxrVVXFMse3ee_J-QaYgALUxckGeWp2QxM4wolrd8Q 

Y1PqaMaTgbws5WSrOeBBBZrhmrUeL4TzZAlCA4-FqtRpoPIA339y9JRixB8Q6LlUeNsWzlqGqkvC 

JSCHlh_hpCXgwemhOtF4B1CLvNGs-PSZjTsnj_KOeSgeINz5Sc6TCrHmnxCcIY6D42aKMJRHZ9I9 

7Z02FLsKwN6IKLxjifZvrkmEX4L8qXLbd8cuF0uf1PMjwC9WNC1_QpOmMiJOrBloG9pdrHRGvmfR 

RPQE7c6_HxVklEpIbxqkLmQVkKF-oM8VYS3A11tvslxiZUcvQcEhuEYhPLoqTD8PDikYhxKyVLhq 

S0DC-bIVBDDLeqiegQelHFjhptKwgs-0Q5mMrxvE6rdsd6-ipEf5Q=w654-h871-no?authuser= 


0


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Malfunctioning VT240 - help please

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

One trick I found with the -5V if it is driven by  a charge pump: check 
the voltage. If it is being pulled down since the charge pump cannot 
supply the current, just disconnect the charge pump and put a lab supply 
in its place.  The increased current will clean out whatever is shorting 
it to ground without harming any good chips.  If you are lucky a puff of 
smoke will identify the chip. Otherwise there may be enough memory 
running to give you a diagnostic message to say which bit.


I did it once on an $1800 board, all chips soldered in, results in minutes!

cheers,

Nigel


On 11/06/2020 16:33, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 2:37 PM Adrian Graham via cctalk
 wrote:

The 4116's are soldered to the board, too

You’ve just mentioned the magic 4116 word, I’d bet some of your dollars that 
it’s either one of those that’s gone south or the -5V required to run them

Definitely check the -5V for the 4116s.

-ethan


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: BYTE Magazines

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Actually, yes.  I had the first two years of them bound - the first 
issue sold to me personally by Wayne Green, and let them go for a song 
.  A couple of years later each bound edition was advertised for $200 - 
that was in 1995 prices!


No idea wha tthey woul dbe worth now.

cheers,

NIgel


On 02/06/2020 19:15, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote:
I know the response to this might be quite subjective and depends on 
your particular interests.


Do BYTE magazines have any collectability (maybe even from a 
historical perspective or something else)?


I have to make some decisions about space (the perennial problem for a 
collector of course) and I have quite a few of these taking up a few 
shelves.


Thank you.


Kevin Parker


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I know where you are coming from. Starting out as an FE I was only 
initially trained in assembler - specifically to trace each instruction 
through the machine for troubleshooting!  My first database was written 
in ART418 (Assembler for Real Time/ Univac 418 :-))Later I learned C and 
used it to do any real programming.


When the 'big iron' computer industry was taken over by the peecee, I 
went into teaching ECE at college.  For 25 years I was always trying to 
teach my students efficiency in coding - especially important until the 
latter years in embedded systems.


Now even embedded systems are running with gigahertz clock speeds!  Over 
my career I have seen the change from three assembler courses in a 
six-semester program to just one 'so they can get their hands wet'!


In the end, when asked 'why do we have to learn this?' I ended up just 
saying "When embedded systems start displaying really weird problems in 
a worldwide installed base, some knowledge of assembler may be the only 
way to fix it.  People who can will be the first to be hired and the 
last to go if a company down-sizes! Even when teaching C I showed them 
how to get down and understand the assembler in the debugger.


I am retired from teaching now now and write in C and SQL :-) One day I 
will do some PDP-11 assembler just for old time's sake on my PiDP-11!


cheers,

Nigel


On 22/05/2020 08:06, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


On 5/22/20 2:56 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

Now that is really cool. Good old MS

In '83 I was working for DEC and had access to things like BASIC+.

I was amazed at what they could do on a micoprocessor.



In my early days :-)  I was given a project to develop programs
for an LSI-11/02 with 28KW of memory and RX02 8" floppies.  I
got the project because the mainframe programmers I worked with
did not believe anything serious could be done in a machine that
small.  I developed programs that later e\went production using
MACRO-11, Pascal, Fortran and COBOL.  I doubt the products of
modern computer science education could duplicate what I did.
Efficiency is no longer a consideration.  Just throw more hardware
at the problem.

bill

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Replacing Power LED on MicroVAX 3100/95 Power Supply

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

If all you need it that little mounting collet, I have a dozen or so of 
them somewhere for the price of postage from Canada!


cheers,

Nigel


On 13/05/2020 02:23, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:

That's fantastic Maciej! I often buy from Farnell, so there is no issue with
getting those parts myself. When I have accumulated enough wants to warrant
an order I will get them.

Regards

Rob


-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Maciej W.

Rozycki

via cctalk
Sent: 13 May 2020 02:41
To: Peter Coghlan ; General Discussion: On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Replacing Power LED on MicroVAX 3100/95 Power Supply

On Sun, 10 May 2020, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:


I seem to remember people saying it is quite difficult to replace
these, mainly because you can't get them out without breaking the
holder. Is that right? Has anyone done this successfully and have any

tips?

Is this the green LED in a H7821 PSU? I managed to get one out of the
holder with a bit of difficulty before I realised I could have left it
in place and the board can just about get past it when the plug at the
far end of the leads feeding it is plugged out from the board.

  If the holder is the same as with the H7826 PSU, then it's a generic part

still

manufactured.  I bought whatever was the minimum quantity sold by Farnell
when I broke one along with the LED a few years ago.  I still have a few
available and I could post one set once I am back to my UK home (which is
given the current situation regrettably not going to happen anytime soon).
Otherwise you can order it yourself:
.


Are there any recommendations for a replacement? If I remember
correctly the LEDs used in those days were not as bright as modern
ones and a modern one would end up being much brighter because of the

higher voltage maybe?

Maybe it would be possible to tack blobs of solder onto what's left of
the leads on the original and use them to attach fine leads, digging
out a small amount of the LED casing around the leads if necessary?

  I chose an LED matching the original colour, also of the case, as closely

as

possible:
, but

still

haven't installed it (well, ahem, I need to fix the PSU itself first), so

I can't

comment on the result.  I could post one of those along with the holder if
needed (subject to the condition noted above).

  An LED will dim with use, so you may not be able to closely match a worn

one

with a brand new part, but I suppose you don't actually need to be
*that* exact with your equipment, do you?  Otherwise you can always put a
resistor in series to dim the light produced.

  HTH,

   Maciej


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: AT PC 6300

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

You might find someone on an Olivetti forum who is interested :-)


On 11/05/2020 08:35, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


I have never seen one mentioned but is there anyone  here
with an interest in these?  I found a still sealed copy of
the Software Development Set Ver. 2.0.  What's it worth?

bill


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Dixie Canner CPT 8000?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thank you for the link.  I really enjoyed seeing that video! Maybe there 
was another one done on the great Volker-Craig/NABU catastrophe, which I 
believe is another example of government getting involved with business 
and screwing it up.  I was at their factory when they were trying to 
liquidate - selling VT100-compatible terminals for peanuts - I got a 
VC100 and VC3100 (with TEK 4010 emulation) for a few hundred dollars each!


cheers,

NIgel


On 24/04/2020 22:25, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 4/24/20 6:58 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:

Does anybody have a wp made by AES?

In the late 70's, they were experimenting with voice recognition for
their systems. We were a nearby DEC Components OEM and had a hundred or
so LSI11/23 modules in stock.  They sent an engineer over to our plant,
took out the whole stock, and replaced the 13.824 MHz clock crystal
module with the output of a function generator to see how high they
could overclock it to get the response they needed for voice
recognition. I think they bought the 4 or 5 that passed diagnostics with
the highest clock speed, somewhere near 40 MHz IIRC.


Some years ago, I received a Harris/AES hard-sector 8" floppy from a
friend of a newspaper reporter.  Took me forever to decode the format,
after which I wasn't able to locate the customer.

I do recall that those systems were quite popular in the newspaper
trade, however.

Here's a video documentary from CBC relating the sad story of that
Canadian tech outfit.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1890827641


--Chuck

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Dixie Canner CPT 8000?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Does anybody have a wp made by AES?

In the late 70's, they were experimenting with voice recognition for 
their systems. We were a nearby DEC Components OEM and had a hundred or 
so LSI11/23 modules in stock.  They sent an engineer over to our plant, 
took out the whole stock, and replaced the 13.824 MHz clock crystal 
module with the output of a function generator to see how high they 
could overclock it to get the response they needed for voice 
recognition. I think they bought the 4 or 5 that passed diagnostics with 
the highest clock speed, somewhere near 40 MHz IIRC.


cheers,

Nigel


On 24/04/2020 21:50, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

It really is a shame that little attention is paid to the early WaPro
vendors.  I remember that we had an Artec system, with a floor-standing
dual 8" drive box and a Diablo KSR Hitype with an attached one-line display.

Artec was acquired by Dictaphone, who was then swallowed by Pitney
Bowes, who then got out of the rather crowded word processor market.

I can't find a photo of the original blue Artec box on the web; only the
later PB "Dual display" models.

I mean, who remembers Qyx or Vydec?

--Chuck


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Univac 490 Gallery Talk - 1963 Real Time Computer

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Thanks for the link.  I am sure I am going to come down and see your 
site when this crisis is over!


I was an FE on three Univac 418 IIs at Bell Canada in Toronto between 
1971 and 1975.


Don't suppose you have any 418s there?

cheers,

Nigel


On 22/04/2020 08:52, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

A true treasure and worth the trip to System Source to see in person.
First class stuff there!  (When it reopens, ug)

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:16 PM rar via cctalk  wrote:


The System Source Computer Museum is closed due to COVID-19, so we are
making some video gallery talks.

Here is the first one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq7aVCc2GP8

The video describes some of the applications of this 57 year old computer
including it original use at Goddard Space Flight Center

Bob Roswell
mus...@syssrc.com
https://museum.syssrc.com

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Wanted for non-profit public museum: DEC VT100

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I thought they were the same!  Maybe the name was changed when he 
founded Syntronics with his partners form NYC!


A bit too far for my wanderings! The last time I was in Calgary I picked 
up a horrible disease while on a five-hour layover at the airport!


cheers,

Nigel


On 20/04/2020 15:02, barry bortnick via cctalk wrote:

It's located at the Calgary based National Music Centre/Studio Bell in
Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
I have to correct the original posting, it's a McLeyvier, not a Synclavier.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Nigel Johnson via
cctalk
Sent: April 20, 2020 12:19 PM
To: barry bortnick via cctalk 
Subject: Re: Wanted for non-profit public museum: DEC VT100

Where is this to be displayed?  I can't help you with the VT100 but I was
very involved in the PDP11/40 machine that David McLey built his software
on!

In fact, I worked until 1 in the morning the night before he had a meeting
with the financiers from New York to finance project, when it failed the day
before and DEC could not get somebody out to help!

cheers,

NIgel Johnson



On 20/04/2020 14:12, barry bortnick via cctalk wrote:

Old IBM magnetic media

I am hoping someone can help me with a project. I’m volunteer at our
local music museum (National Music Centre/Studio Bell.) They are
restoring a vintage Synclavier, an early digital audio workstation,
which happens to have an embedded DEC PDP 11/23. Part of the museums
purpose is to restore, maintain and make available these instruments
for musicians to use in addition to static displays.

The Synclavier should have a matching VT100, but that is the only
component the museum does not currently have for this functioning
device. Yes, the
VT100 can be easily emulated, but as a museum, historical accuracy is
also vital.

I was wondering if anybody had any leads on a VT100 that might be donated?

Thanks for any help!



--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from
me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any
number of system administrators along the way.
 Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print
this message


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Wanted for non-profit public museum: DEC VT100

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Where is this to be displayed?  I can't help you with the VT100 but I 
was very involved in the PDP11/40 machine that David McLey built his 
software on!


In fact, I worked until 1 in the morning the night before he had a 
meeting with the financiers from New York to finance project, when it 
failed the day before and DEC could not get somebody out to help!


cheers,

NIgel Johnson



On 20/04/2020 14:12, barry bortnick via cctalk wrote:

Old IBM magnetic media

I am hoping someone can help me with a project. I’m volunteer at our local
music museum (National Music Centre/Studio Bell.) They are restoring a
vintage Synclavier, an early digital audio workstation, which happens to
have an embedded DEC PDP 11/23. Part of the museums purpose is to restore,
maintain and make available these instruments for musicians to use in
addition to static displays.

The Synclavier should have a matching VT100, but that is the only component
the museum does not currently have for this functioning device. Yes, the
VT100 can be easily emulated, but as a museum, historical accuracy is also
vital.

I was wondering if anybody had any leads on a VT100 that might be donated?

Thanks for any help!


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: DEC QBUS Backplanes

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

The actual sockets were always labelled with Digital's trademarks, but 
they sold them to OEMs to do what they like with them.  We OEM'd for the 
Components Group, at one time placed a million dollar order of stuff 
including boxes of those backplane sockets!


cheers,

Nigel



On 17/04/2020 21:40, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:

I remember the VT72 had a non-standard backplane in it, but I don't
remember the details.

Paul

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:10 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 4/17/20 8:36 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

Hm. Plessy backplane?

No name on the phenolic board part but the QBUS sockets are labeled
"Digital Equipment Corporation".

bill


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: pdp11/05 key?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

How about a CA Naked Mini, I may have a picture somewhere!

On 09/04/2020 13:42, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
MOST of the other PDP machines use the XX2247 key, which is a 
tubular one.

But, THIS thread is about the weird one that is NOT tubular.

Here is my locksmith-cut 11/05 key attached to my pdp11 keyfob:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3110483

The key fob is pretty cool!


But, we like hardcore porn.
How about some pictures of the machine?
(key in the lock, with covers off, and panels open!)


On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, Norman Jaffe wrote:

I hope that you mean 'hardware porn', not 'hardcore porn'... :)


We like hardcore hardware.
Got any pictures of bare core planes?


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: State of New Jersey needs COBOL programmers

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

There were a lot of differing opinions, some of which held out over 
time. Even Fred Brooks had to admit that David Parnas was right about 
data encapsulation



On 05/04/2020 15:53, geneb via cctalk wrote:

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Edsger Dijksta said, "The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its 
teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense."


I'm pretty sure he said that about BASIC, and I'm totally bummed he 
died before I could bitch slap him over it. ;)


g.

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE, MCSE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Fortran (Was Re: PDP-8 Straight 8 restoration) (Resubmitting without attachment)

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Since we are all at home exchanging stories, I thought I would regale 
you with my best punch card one:


My first job out of school was at Bell Canada in  Downtown Toronto.

I was trained as an FE on their Univac 418 II systems that ran a 
Canada-wide store-and-forward MSDS - Message Switching Data Service 
(MSDS - means something else now!)  I also got trained on the PDP11, 
then PDP8, and Interdata 50.


The year was 1972 or '73 I think.

Since there was very little operating to do with a real-time system, we 
didn't have operators and did all the operating ourselves.  One system 
ran H23 (it had to be shutdown for maintenance over midnight because the 
system would crash if the time went backwards after midnight), the 
other, use by stockbrokers and the T. Eaton Company started at 0600 and 
was turned down at 2100.


Being critical real time (after all, it fed about a thousand 110 baud 
teletypes across Canada :-) ) it would crash sometimes due to racing 
conditions that had not been forecast.  Instead of re-assembling the 
system (about four hours), the programmers would issue us with PARLO 
(PARameter LOader) cards to make patches after we loaded the enterprise 
code and before we started it.  This fixed the bugs by binary changes.


One morning, I was on duty as the 0600 system crashed immediately after 
I started it.  As trained, I switched all the peripherals over to the 
backup machine and loaded the program on there, carrying the PARLO cards 
over and running them before I started that system. Same crash happened, 
while the panic dump was still running between the first computer and 
the Uniservo VI C.


Lots more attempts happened, including running heavy cables across the 
floor to patch in spares that were not on the transfer switch, until 
first, second, and finally third level managers were standing behind me 
as I tried new things.  "A 20-year old does not need this kind of 
stress", I thought!


Upper management wanted to 'get somebody else' to work the computer by 
my boss told me to stand fast.  Suddenly, I had an idea.  We had an old 
IBM 028 punch sitting at the back of the room.


"Go and copy these PARLO cards" I said to the programmer.  She scowled 
at being told what to do by this young kid, especially since she was 
management and I was not. But as nobody had any better ideas the 
managers told her to do it.


Thankfully, my idea that the PARLO cards were worn thin so that the 
photo readers could see holes where there were not, was accurate. The 
028 used fingers to feel for the holes and so made a perfect copy!


After that they instituted a policy of changing the PARLO cards or 
re-assembling on a regular basis!


The attachment is a picture of where this happened.

cheers,

Nigel Johnson








On 30/03/2020 11:41, Diane Bruce wrote:

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 09:31:56AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:13 AM Diane Bruce  wrote:


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 05:33:35PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:10 PM Diane Bruce via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org>

wrote:


...

...

A dropped card deck was disaster and how many folks filled in columns 73
to 80
with an index? Not very many. :-(

Worse: 80% of the cards had that, but the other 20% didn't since they 
were

later bug fixes.

The decks that I had to verify were from the "in the barn" days of the
company and had sat in storage for a few years. People would remove cards
from the top box in the stack to show visitors and weren't great about
putting them back exactly in order... So when the boss, who was sure he
And the cards bent due to humidity and stuck together while you read 
them right?


semi-real editor (visual TECO at a glorious 4800 baud). and I learned 
a lot

about FORTRAN and just how bad it could be (the boss was a great
businessman, much better than his FORTRAN prowess).
The worst Fortran I remember was from Scientists. I got to fix some of 
that

back in the day. Nowadays a lot of them learn C/C++ and are not horrible
coders now. Early Fortran as you remember was pretty easy to turn into 
spaghetti

code. WATFOR and IFTRAN helped.


Ah yes the LARGE array with indexes used as pointers trick. *ugh* I
remember.


Yea. And ugly tricks to overlay/alias heap1, heap2 and heap4 (which were
for byte, word and longword access respectively). And converting between
the different "pointer" types. It was helle ugly... But pointers in C 
that

Yep. yep.


I learned a few years later were a piece of cake in comparison...

Pointers were a treat compared to the horrible Fortran mess and was very
appreciated.


Ha! We had some assembler for the most time critical bits, but we wrote
that in MACRO-11 directly and linked it in.

Yep. BTDT I did a lot of 'raw' MACRO-11 too.


Warner

Diane



--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. 

Re: Fortran (Was Re: PDP-8 Straight 8 restoration)

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Since we are all at home exchanging stories, I thought I would regale 
you with my best punch card one:


My first job out of school was at Bell Canada in  Downtown Toronto.

I was trained as an FE on their Univac 418 II systems that ran a 
Canada-wide store-and-forward MSDS - Message Switching Data Service 
(MSDS - means something else now!)  I also got trained on the PDP11, 
then PDP8, and Interdata 50.


The year was 1972 or '73 I think.

Since there was very little operating to do with a real-time system, we 
didn't have operators and did all the operating ourselves.  One system 
ran H23 (it had to be shutdown for maintenance over midnight because the 
system would crash if the time went backwards after midnight), the 
other, use by stockbrokers and the T. Eaton Company started at 0600 and 
was turned down at 2100.


Being critical real time (after all, it fed about a thousand 110 baud 
teletypes across Canada :-) ) it would crash sometimes due to racing 
conditions that had not been forecast.  Instead of re-assembling the 
system (about four hours), the programmers would issue us with PARLO 
(PARameter LOader) cards to make patches after we loaded the enterprise 
code and before we started it.  This fixed the bugs by binary changes.


One morning, I was on duty as the 0600 system crashed immediately after 
I started it.  As trained, I switched all the peripherals over to the 
backup machine and loaded the program on there, carrying the PARLO cards 
over and running them before I started that system.  Same crash 
happened, while the panic dump was still running between the first 
computer and the Uniservo VI C.


Lots more attempts happened, including running heavy cables across the 
floor to patch in spares that were not on the transfer switch, until 
first, second, and finally third level managers were standing behind me 
as I tried new things.  "A 20-year old does not need this kind of 
stress", I thought!


Upper management wanted to 'get somebody else' to work the computer by 
my boss told me to stand fast.  Suddenly, I had an idea.  We had an old 
IBM 028 punch sitting at the back of the room.


"Go and copy these PARLO cards" I said to the programmer.  She scowled 
at being told what to do by this young kid, especially since she was 
management and I was not. But as nobody had any better ideas the 
managers told her to do it.


Thankfully, my idea that the PARLO cards were worn thin so that the 
photo readers could see holes where there were not, was accurate.  The 
028 used fingers to feel for the holes and so made a perfect copy!


After that they instituted a policy of changing the PARLO cards or 
re-assembling on a regular basis!


The attachment is a picture of where this happened.

cheers,

Nigel Johnson








On 30/03/2020 11:41, Diane Bruce wrote:

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 09:31:56AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:13 AM Diane Bruce  wrote:


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 05:33:35PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:10 PM Diane Bruce via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org>

wrote:


...

...

A dropped card deck was disaster and how many folks filled in columns 73
to 80
with an index? Not very many. :-(


Worse: 80% of the cards had that, but the other 20% didn't since they were
later bug fixes.

The decks that I had to verify were from the "in the barn" days of the
company and had sat in storage for a few years. People would remove cards
from the top box in the stack to show visitors and weren't great about
putting them back exactly in order...  So when the boss, who was sure he

And the cards bent due to humidity and stuck together while you read them right?


semi-real editor (visual TECO at a glorious 4800 baud). and I learned a lot
about FORTRAN and just how bad it could be (the boss was a great
businessman, much better than his FORTRAN prowess).

The worst Fortran I remember was from Scientists. I got to fix some of that
back in the day. Nowadays a lot of them learn C/C++ and are not horrible
coders now. Early Fortran as you remember was pretty easy to turn into spaghetti
code. WATFOR and IFTRAN helped.


Ah yes the LARGE array with indexes used as pointers trick. *ugh* I
remember.


Yea. And ugly tricks to overlay/alias heap1, heap2 and heap4 (which were
for byte, word and longword access respectively). And converting between
the different "pointer" types. It was helle ugly...  But pointers in C that

Yep. yep.


I learned a few years later were a piece of cake in comparison...

Pointers were a treat compared to the horrible Fortran mess and was very
appreciated.


Ha! We had some assembler for the most time critical bits, but we wrote
that in MACRO-11 directly and linked it in.

Yep. BTDT I did a lot of 'raw' MACRO-11 too.


Warner

Diane


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. 

Re: H7874 power supply

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Vectoring through 24 was very important back in the core memory days 
when the memory would still be there after a power failure and you 
wnated the system to keep running, as was our Ontario Bellboy paging 
controller.


cheers,

Nigel



On 30/03/2020 12:49, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:



On Mar 30, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Robert Armstrong via cctalk 
 wrote:


Looks like for this enclosure an ATX supply could well work.
For my VAX my notes say it didn't.

  A VAX would certainly be harder.  You'd have to kludge up the ACOK and DCOK 
signals for one thing, which I don't think the R400x uses.

Thise signals don't seem like a problem: just hardwire them to the desired 
logic level.  PDP-11s need a real functioning DCOK signal iff you want to do 
power fail interrupt handling, otherwise they don't.  Do VAXen have power fail 
interrupt?  If yes, does anyone actually use it?

paul


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: PDP-8 Straight 8 restoration

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Brings back memories!  My first 6800 cross assembler came to me as 2000 
Fortran source code punch cards. We had an F4R4 compiler on the PDP11 
but the card reader was on the PDP-8.


The only common peripheral was paper tape.  One night, the Chief 
Engineer and I fed the cards into the PDP8 card reader, punched tape, 
and fed it directly into the PDP11 tape reader.  X-on X-off was handled 
by hitting the stop and continue buttons on the PDP8 as the punch was 
faster than the reader.  The buffer was a pile of paper tape in the 
floor, which we carefully prevented from tangling.  Somehow OS/8 managed 
to not crash with the constant start/stop.


Nobody was more surprised than we were when the output compiled 
perfectly on the PDP11 and we made our first 6800 program - a ham 
repeater controller!


The Chief Engineer is still alive - I was at his 95th birthday last year 
and we often have fun talking about the good old days!


cheers,

Nigel Johnson


On 29/03/2020 16:59, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 09:47:51AM +1300, Brendan McNeill via cctech wrote:

Here in NZ and around the world many of us are in lockdown and spending more time on 
our computers, if that were possible.  I have just completed the restoration of a 
PDP-8 Straight 8 which I believe is the only one in New Zealand.  You can view the 
restoration story and find appropriate resources here:  https://pdp-8.nz 


While it plays Chess, it would be great if someone wanted to write (say) a 
Prime Number Generator, or some other application and email it to me off list.  
I have Focal-69 and can probably source other languages for this wonderful old 
machine with 4K of memory.

I have memories of keying in RIM and BIN. Long long time ago. I also learned
how to talk to the OS/8 file system so we could play morse code from a file
instead of a paper tape for our University club station. ;)


--//
bren...@mcneill.co.nz
+64 21 881 883





73 de VA3DB for those that care ;)


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: VAX/VMS 3.0 Distribution Available for Download

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Blimey, next you will be giving away the secret handshake!

On 21/03/2020 20:39, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:

On 21/03/2020 21:43, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:



The SYSTEM password is MANAGER.

Just like the old days.



Times were different then :-)


Wasn't the FIELD account password SERVICE?


Antonio


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: 52-pin D-Sub?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

More in the trivia department, the DA15 was used for AUI interconnection 
in the 10base-5, -2, and early -T days, as well as analog joysticks.


I'm surprised to see wikipedia saying that the high-density ones had DA 
to DE designations, I have only seen them in catalogs with full part 
numbers.  Could this be a backronym-style regression?


cheers,

Nigel


On 27/02/2020 19:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 27 Feb 2020, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
No idea.  I just got a new L-Com catalog, which has a large section 
of "D-Sub" connectors and cables.  It lists the following sizes:

2-row: 9, 15, 25, 37, 50 pin
3-row: 15, 26, 44, 62, 78 pin
So 52 pins is halfway between two standard sizes.  For some 
definition of "standard", of course.  2-row 9, 15, and 25 pin are 
common, 37 is for RS-422 if I remember right but I haven't seen it in 
ages.


A trivial data point:
DC-37 was used by PC (5150), XT (5160) for external floppy drive,
Used a lot of those, especially for tape drives and infrequently used 
drives, such as 3.25" and 3", 720K 5.25", 100tpi 5.25", 67.5 tpi 3.5", 
etc.

also used even by IBM on some add-on external floppies for some PS/2s.

DC-37 was also on the externally-controlled Canon CX printer engines, 
so I had some cables and even switchboxes for those. 
(Cordata/CoronaDataSystems, Eiconscript (both HP and Postscript 
emulation!), JLaser, etc.)

Anybody have any interest in those?


The Amiga used a couple of D23 connectors.  I cut up some DB25s when I 
needed them.



 -- as many people here know, the common 9-pin serial connector is 
not actually a "DB-9" connector but rather a DE-9.


When I had a lot of DB25 cables on hand, I had a few that only had 
pins in place in positions 1-8 and 20.  Would those 9 pins make it a 
"DB-9"?  :-)


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: 52-pin D-Sub?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

If your reference to D-sub means the connectors originally made by 
ITT-Cannon, I can offer the following from a cutout from a trade catalog 
that I have carried around these last 30 years as ammunition against 
those who erroneously use the term DB-9!


I wasn't sure, so I had to find it and can confirm that there was no 
'standard' D-sub of 52 pins in 3 rows.  The ones available were:


DA15, DB25, DC37, and DD50, that latter of which had 50 pins in three 
rows. There was of course the famously mis-labelled DE9.


Could you have mis-counted the pins?

cheers,

Nigel


On 27/02/2020 18:37, Adam Thornton via cctalk wrote:

I work at an astronomy facility.  I get to do some fun dumpster diving.

I recently have pulled out of the trash a plugboard with a male and a
female D-Sub 52 connector.  3 rows of pins, 17-18-17.  I took the
connectors off the board: there's nothing back there, so this thing only
ever existed so you could plug the random cable you found into it and its
friends to see what the cable fit.

I can't find much evidence that a 52-pin D-Sub ever existed.

Is this just Yet Another Physics Experiment thing where, hey, if your
instrument already costs three million dollars, what's a couple of grand
for machining custom connectors?  Or was it once a thing?

(also posted to COFF)

Adam


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

You can also use RG174 to go between cracks in floor tiles as I did once 
in my apartment.  It was easier than cutting hole sin concrete to get 
where I wanted to go (well before wi-fi)


As a consultant said when he saw it, "I have heard of thin-net but that 
is ridiculous!


cheers,

NIgel


On 22/02/2020 14:13, Gregory Beat via cctech wrote:

Some days I feel like “Doc Brown”, wondering where I parked the DeLorean.
—
YES ... connecting your HP 9000 to your private LAN would be useful.

ThinNet = 10-Base-2 = 10 MB Ethernet over RG-58/U 50 ohm coaxial cable.
The Series 360 workstation should also have an AUI port (15-pin D-subminiature 
with locking mechanism option).
—
I would recommend an AUI transceiver to 10-Base-T media converter (UTP with 
8-pin modular jack).  Black Box, Unicom, and other brands are available.
https://www.omnitron-systems.com/flexpoint-10-aui-media-converter.php

You did not mention the Operating System (OS) that you have installed on this HP 
9000 series 360.  HP-UX was the standard OS offering 30 years ago, when I went thru 
HP’s one month of classroom training on HP9000 hardware, networking, & HP-UX.
https://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?class=1=40

You will need the Ethernet network driver installed for your OS, and standard 
TCP/IP tools (telnet, ssh, ftp, nfs, etc.).

greg
chicago

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:19:40 -0800
From: Roger Addy 
To: cct...@classiccmp.org
Subject: HP 9000 Series 360 Thin LAN

Hi All,
I am using an HP 9000 Series 360 with a "Thin LAN" coax card to run a
piece of equipment. The LAN connection is not currently being used.? I'm
wondering if it's possible to connect it to a modern ethernet network??
If so, what could I do with it? I found an adapter on Amazon. I would
like to be able to transfer files and possibly print.? The file systems
are not compatible except for maybe ASCII files.? Anyone have any
thoughts?? Even if I could transfer files into another HP 9000 system it
would be beneficial.

Thank you,

Roger A.


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: OT - FTGH - U-Matic Tapes

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I have been down that road myself.  In the end I gave up, bought a 
Toshiba  DVR630:


https://www.amazon.ca/Toshiba-DVR630-HDMI-Recorder-Black/dp/B00GH7PP0U

Yikes!  I paid $179.95 for mine a few years back!

It is a lot easier to sit back and let it do the work! (As long as you 
don't have to pay >1k$ for it!)


cheers,
Nigel



On 30/01/2020 14:25, Christian Groessler via cctalk wrote:

On 2020-01-30 20:11, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Ethan O'Toole via cctalk
 wrote:


I have a umatic deck and capture hardware if you wanted them converted.



What is your setup to capture videos? I've been given the task of 
digitizing some family VHS-C tapes. VCR is working, but I'm having a 
bad time with video cards...


regards,
chris


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Sorry

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Sorry guys, that LTspice stuff was not for this group - my mailer must 
have screwed up!


73 de Nigel ve3id


On 26/01/2020 18:12, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote:

I ma rusty on this, been almost 50 years since I worked on the DP8EP
aka the KG83. then the KG11, and the Autodin 2 CRC32 designs in
hardware.
I don't recall whether bisync, aka bsc used LRC8, 12, 16, or crc16 as
the error detection algorithm.
I don't think it used VRC. I did find a refresher that might help, but
I don't think the polynomial you have for crc 16 has enough terms.
BUT I could be misremembering.

https://www.automatas.org/modbus/crc7.html
bob

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Mattis Lind via cctalk
 wrote:

Hello IBM BSC Experts!

I am trying to figure out the CRC algorithm used by IBM BSC. I have tried a
lot of different settings in crcreveng but not getting a match.

I am pretty convinced that the CRC-16 used by IBM was
   16  15   2
x  +   x +   x +  1
This would give the polynomial 8005.
Anyone against this statement?

But what was the initial value?

I have two actual messages from equipment employing IBM BSC:
32016CD90240404070032688
and
32016CD90240C84050030D28

 From this document (
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/datacomm/GA27-3004-2_General_Information_Binary_Synchronous_Communications_Oct70.pdf
)
I get that the CRC calculation is reset on SOH (01h) or STX (02h) and
accumulates until and including the ETX (03h). (excluding any SYN (32h)
characters).

I have tried crcreveng back and forth and I am not getting the CRC bytes
right.
I think I have tried most things, different bit order, different initial
values. But nothing.

I also tried the mode in crcreveng where it searches for matches but it
always says "no models found". Maybe I am doing something wrong when using
crcreveng?

Any clues? Surely there are someone out there that has been around for some
time and knows this, right?

On the topic of crc reveng I tried to verify how it works by using some
kind of known value: This article
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23638939/crc-16-ibm-reverse-lookup-in-c

has a specific example where a certain data in (75h) with initial value
90f1h gives output 6390h. I tried to get crc reveng to do the same, but
failed. There has to be some option I simply do not understand. I tried
most combinations.

/Mattis


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: IBM BSC CRC?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

True, but in my case it was a typo! But yes we digital types like 
saturation.  Still have the funny thing with LTSpice though. I used it a 
lot for electricity 1 and 2 demos for students when the college wouldn't 
support me running electronics workbench under a VM on linux!


Works just fine with 100k!  Maybe I will just go back to the hardware, 
but it is a pain changing resistors in that dense board!  I think I must 
have blown the second transistor with too high a base current, burnt 
fingers tomorrow!


73

id


On 26/01/2020 18:12, Bob Smith via cctalk wrote:

I ma rusty on this, been almost 50 years since I worked on the DP8EP
aka the KG83. then the KG11, and the Autodin 2 CRC32 designs in
hardware.
I don't recall whether bisync, aka bsc used LRC8, 12, 16, or crc16 as
the error detection algorithm.
I don't think it used VRC. I did find a refresher that might help, but
I don't think the polynomial you have for crc 16 has enough terms.
BUT I could be misremembering.

https://www.automatas.org/modbus/crc7.html
bob

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Mattis Lind via cctalk
 wrote:

Hello IBM BSC Experts!

I am trying to figure out the CRC algorithm used by IBM BSC. I have tried a
lot of different settings in crcreveng but not getting a match.

I am pretty convinced that the CRC-16 used by IBM was
   16  15   2
x  +   x +   x +  1
This would give the polynomial 8005.
Anyone against this statement?

But what was the initial value?

I have two actual messages from equipment employing IBM BSC:
32016CD90240404070032688
and
32016CD90240C84050030D28

 From this document (
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/datacomm/GA27-3004-2_General_Information_Binary_Synchronous_Communications_Oct70.pdf
)
I get that the CRC calculation is reset on SOH (01h) or STX (02h) and
accumulates until and including the ETX (03h). (excluding any SYN (32h)
characters).

I have tried crcreveng back and forth and I am not getting the CRC bytes
right.
I think I have tried most things, different bit order, different initial
values. But nothing.

I also tried the mode in crcreveng where it searches for matches but it
always says "no models found". Maybe I am doing something wrong when using
crcreveng?

Any clues? Surely there are someone out there that has been around for some
time and knows this, right?

On the topic of crc reveng I tried to verify how it works by using some
kind of known value: This article
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23638939/crc-16-ibm-reverse-lookup-in-c

has a specific example where a certain data in (75h) with initial value
90f1h gives output 6390h. I tried to get crc reveng to do the same, but
failed. There has to be some option I simply do not understand. I tried
most combinations.

/Mattis


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
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   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Motorola app notes (Al Kossow)

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Have you searched for them on the NXP web site?

I found the RF ones here:

https://www.nxp.com/products/rf/rf-power-application-notes/rf-power-application-notes-by-frequency-range/general-frequency-range-application-notes:RF_FREQ_GEN_FREQ_RANGE_APP_NOTES

73 de Nigel ve3id


On 07/01/2020 18:14, Evan Linwood via cctalk wrote:

did anyone copy the moto app notes that were once at
http://www.shrubbery.net/~heas/willem/PDF/Motorola/apnoteindex.html ?

some of them are available at:
http://archive.retro.co.za/archive/Motorola%20Appnotes/

plus a few more on this level:
http://archive.retro.co.za/archive/

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
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   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: Your Vale Coaches order has been received!

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I thought that mysen, then I saw the title.  I believe what is offered 
is a coach ride to get the sandwich at an event of the Royal 
Horticultural Society


Perhaps a little more upscale than the average MacDonalds?


On 31/12/2019 12:09, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote:

On 12/31/2019 10:15 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

?



I know!!! 69£ for a sandwich lunch??? Talk about price gouging!



On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 8:16 AM Mark Darvill via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Good news! After a bit of a configuration nightmare (it is more
complicated than Worldpay) I have got it working.

I will test a couple more times and then figure out what we need to 
do to

make it live.

Mark


Begin forwarded message:

From: Vale Coaches - Office 
Subject: Your Vale Coaches order has been received!
Date: 31 December 2019 at 14:11:32 GMT
To: mark.darv...@mac.com
Reply-To: Vale Coaches 



Thank you for your order
Hi Mark,

Just to let you know — we've received your order #10075, and it is now

being processed:

[Order #10075] (31st December 2019)

Product   Quantity    Price
RHS Cardiff Flower Show - Saturday 18th April 2020
Pickup Point:
Sturminster Newton
Packed Lunch Sandwich:
Egg & cress on brown
Packed Lunch Drink:
Apple Juice
1 £69.00
Subtotal: £69.00
Payment method:   Barclaycard
Total:    £69.00
Billing address

Mark Darvill
Test
April Cotatge
Sackmore Lane, Marnhull
Sturminster Newton
Dorset
DT10 1PN
01258 820871
mark.darv...@mac.com
Thanks for using valecoaches.com!

Vale Coaches
Site built by Marnhull Computers Marnhull Computers 
m...@marnhullcomputers.com>



 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
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   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: ORNL ORACLE story

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Love those old sounds on an AM radio.  One day, I was working on a ham 
project in the CFRB radio engineering workshop in Toronto. It was just 
after Kilobaud magazine had published a program that would play Valda's 
theme (Somewhere My LOve) on an AM radio next to a Motorola MEK6800D2.  
We had toggled it in and were playing with it  when the evening show man 
walked by.


"What's that," said Carl Banas to the station engineer, Paul.

"The guys are playing with computer music," said Paul.

"Get me a cart of it and I will put it on the air," said Carl.

So I phoned all my friends so they could hear our club repeater 
controller prototype play music on a major market radio station!


He played it for a few seconds than faded in to the fully-orchestrated 
version!


cheers,

Nigel


On 25/12/2019 14:55, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


https://computerhistory.org/blog/jingle-bits-auditory-maintenance-whirlwind-holiday-songs-the-dawn-of-computer-music/ 




 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: 8 inch floppies

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Oh the things companies did to try and increase their profits! Bad idea 
indeed, reversible just meant half the profit for the suppliers!


On the same vein, we ordered a TWX line form Bell but supplied our own 
machine. Bell said they were not responsible if the line caused errors, 
and sent a man out with a bit error rate tester - all for 110 baud!


I remember when we sold DSD440 floppies, and the DEC salesmen were going 
around saying that it could not format floppies when their RX02 could - 
although the only thing that the RX02 could do was change the density 
bit from single to double!


cheers,

Nigel


On 13/12/2019 21:06, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

On 12/13/19 8:22 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 12/13/19 5:11 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


I never saw any flippies commercially made but many
companies made punches for flippy 5.25" disks.  I always
had to make my own for 8".


They were standard products.  Let's see if I can find a period ad...

Well, not an ad, but a precise description:

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/3M/3M_Diskette_Reference_Manual_May83.pdf

Page 8, top illustration.  3M added an "R" to the stock number for
"reversible".  I have a few in my stash.

Must have been targeted at the home market as I don't
remember ever seeing them in any of the supplies catalogs
I dealt with.  And there were numerous white papers
talking about why it was a really bad idea to spin
floppies in both directions.

bill

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: "First Internet message" and ...

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

This is starting to sound like a usenet discussion years ago about the 
correct plural of 'VAX' :-)


Vaxen, Vaces, or just multiple VAX installations anybody?

cheers,

Nigel


On 25/11/2019 21:19, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote:


On 11/25/19 2:14 PM, Richard Pope via cctalk wrote:

Will,
    Good one. LOL! :)
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/25/2019 4:10 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
Oh goody; when the "intranet" vs. "an internet" vs. "The Internet" 
discussion finally gets boring we can argue over the meaning and 
function of "switches" vs. "routers" vs. "hubs".

If we are lucky, maybe we can start a new holy war along the lines of
vi vs. emacs.

--
Will






this list is better than a free movie ticket


z...




 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: "First Internet message" and ...

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Do you mean they have finally perfected the WOM???


On 11/25/2019 6:21 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:

Remember we now are moving in the cloud era, a write only device.




 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: "First Internet message" and ...

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

No, your home has an intranet!

cheers,

Nigel


On 25/11/2019 13:45, Richard Pope via cctalk wrote:

Noel,
    Isn't the proper term for my network of computers here at home: 
internet and the term : Internet the proper term for the worldwide 
collection of networked computers?

GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/25/2019 12:06 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Fred Cisin

 > Is that message about 1) history of internet? (THANK YOU for 
specifying
 > "internet", otherwise "computer to computer" involves much 
older history.

 > ...
 > those messages were sent on PRECURSORS to the internet, NOT on 
the

 > internet.

Did you mean "internet" or 'Internet'?

The poorly educated cretins at the AP nothwithstanding, those are two
different words, with _different meanings_.


 > Definition and history of the WORD "internet" is also critical
 > ...
 > do you know of any actual use of the word/name "internet" 
prior to the

 > December 1974 RFC about TCP?

I believe the word 'internet' was coined for:

   V. Cerf and R. Kahn, "A Protocol For Packet Network
   Intercommunication," IEEE Transactions on Communication, vol. C-
   2O, No. 5. May 1974, pp. 637-648.

There was earlier work in the general area of connecting computer data
networks together, performed in the International Packet Network Working
Group (INWG), which had an alternative term 'catenet' which had much 
the same
meaning as 'internet'. (Although little-known, the INWG - not to be 
confused
with the later DARPA-centric group of the same acronym - is 
documented in two
papers, a draft one by Ronda Hauben, and a later one by Alex 
McKenzie.) I
don't know if the term 'internet' was used there before its 
appearance in the

Cerf/Kakhn paper.

Interestingly, "Internetworking" is mentioned in RFC604, December 
1973, so
the word was in circulation in the technical community before the 
Cerf/Kahn

paper came out.


"Internet" came along later, when we needed a name for the internet 
centered
around the ARPANET. The need was discussed on the then-central email 
list for
the TCP/IP community (which may have been called 'inwg' - my memory 
is, alas,

fading), and we decided on 'Internet'.

I'd previously looked for the first use of 'Internet' in that sense 
in the
RFC's, and found it, but I don't remember what it was! Looking again, 
there's

a lot of 'Internet Protocol' and similar things to sort out; I see an
'Internet' in RFC780, May 1981, but it's marginal (it says "ARPA 
Internet");
the first 'true' use of 'Internet' on its own in the current meaning 
which

I found was in RFC821, August 1982.

Noel



 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
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   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: 3270 controller simulation

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I was the Canadian GM of Emulex, whose Persyst Division made a bi-sync 
card for the PC.  I was stunned when, in the era of TCP/IP 
interconnectivity, a client kept on talking about a 'sign-on' card :-) I 
just smile dand accepted his order for lots of product!



On 18/11/2019 20:22, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 7:42 PM Al Kossow via cctalk
 wrote:

I find it interesting that the field of comms interoperability with IBM 
mainframes was huge up until TCP/IP
took over, and all traces of the software implementations have disappeared or 
were consolidated into a couple
like Micro Focus.

The golden years of Software Results and COMBOARDs were 1982-1986,
perhaps a little later, but not much.  By early 1989, we really didn't
have many board sales, just maintenance contracts for the existing
customer base and an occasional upgrade sale (Unibus->VAXBI or
Unibus-Qbus).  By 1994, there weren't that many customers left on
maintenance.  The last contract expired around February 1995.

We did have a last breath of demand in the early 90s that garnered a
tiny handful of sales - when EDI began to take hold, one of the
standard transport models was 3780 to an IBM service that essentially
took care of delivery in the fashion of an ISP.  If you wanted to use
that network, you needed _a_ product that would move files using sync
modems and the 3780 protocol.  There were a couple of PC products that
could do it, and we were one of the last companies still in the Bisync
space for minicomputers.

After EDI moved to TCP/IP, that was all over.

But in the early 80s, we made a few million dollars getting PDP-11s
and VAXen to interoperate with IBM mainframes.  At that time, lots of
large companies needed it, then fairly quickly nobody needed it.

-ethan


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
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   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: UniBone: Linux-to-DEC-UNIBUS-bridge, year #1

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I think you will win a lot of friends if you can make something that 
will emulate MSCP devices on the QBus - I have a micro11 and microVax 
sans disk due to only having ESDI ate ST506 controllers!


cheers es 73 to the hams amongst us de Nigel ve3id


On 15/11/2019 15:23, David Bridgham via cctalk wrote:

On 11/15/19 3:01 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote:

LOVE the ideas, loved it when I first heard of it. But I'm a QBUS guy! Put me 
on the list when (if) you ever make one for qbus. GREAT idea!
Eugene


Along these lines, it's been a long time since we've updated the list
regarding the QSIC project.  Have been slowly working away on the
project here.  The QSIC is, at a high level, similar to the UniBone
except it's on the QBUS and it's based around an FPGA rather than a BBB.

Work that's gone on is that the Verilog code has been written to access
the DDR SDRAM we have so we can support larger RAM disks and eventually
the Able ENABLE.  Haven't tested it yet.

Also have made good progress on designing the prototype circuit board to
replace our wire-wrapped test board that's served us well so far.  Some
final checks and it'll soon be time to send off to China and learn about
having circuit boards assembled.  Speaking of that circuit board design,
I put in the option to add bus termination resistors but they require a
part that no-one seems to stock.  I had a request in to Mouser to get it
for me and they said they'd look into it but I haven't heard anything
back for a few weeks now.  This jogs my memory to chase them a little to
find out what's happened.

Anyway, the web page for the QSIC is here along with a KiCad rendering
of what the prototype board would look like and a slightly more accurate
diagram of what the internal modules are like (may still modify that
some more as I learned about the AXI interface and may use that for
getting to the bus and that'll change how the crossbar switch works).

http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/html/overview.html

Dave


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
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   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: Question about modems

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

No. While each end might be able to communicate with the local modem in 
command mode using different parameters, when they are in connected mode 
the modems will not convert anything, just pass the exact format along. 
So if one end is expecting 7E2 and the other is sending 8N1 there will 
be a 50% chance that parity errors will be received.


cheers

Nigel


On 13/11/2019 16:16, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

On 11/13/19 1:31 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
But, stuff like commands to the modem didn't need much of that, and 
needed to be able to communicate in spite of wrong parameters.  It 
made sense for a modem to recognize a command, even with wrong 
parity, etc.


Okay

Now I'm thinking that there are really two phases / modes of 
communications:  1) computer to modem commands, and 2) computer to 
computer via modem connection data.


I think my previous statement applies to #2.  I can see the value in 
#1 being more liberal in what it recognizes and accepts.


But, I'd still be surprised if the following would work for #2.

[A]---(7E2)---{modem}==={modem}---(8N1)---[B]

Would A and B be able to transfer data between each other with 
different (local) settings?




 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: Question about modems

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

On 13/11/2019 13:36, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

There are other "oddball" combinations, such as 8E1 and 8O1, which sends
a 9-bit data frame.  You can see datasheets on some UARTs as well as MCU
UARTs that support the 9 bit packet.
According to the diagram of the Smartmodem there is no UART, the 1488s 
and 1489s go directly to the Z80.

Also, don't/doesn't TDD (5 level code) use 5E2 or some such.  Same for
Telex/TWX.


Not sure 5 level code (ITU #2) ever had parity, but to confuse the issue 
even further, there was a 1.5 stop bit option too, for mechanical machines!


cheers,

NIgel




--Chuck


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Question about modems

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Not much in the manual.  I browsed it looking for anything about data 
bits and stop bits. Nothing.


p1-2: ' Commands given to the Smartmodem must be ASCII coded at baud 
rates between 110 baud and 1200 baud. Once 'on-line', any code at any 
speed from 0 to 300 baud may be used.'


p 9-1 'Do not send any data to the Smartmodem while it is in local 
command mode unless the data is intended to be a command. Random data 
can confuse the baud rate detector and the command decoder giving 
unpredicatable results.'


That is al lI can find i nthe manual.

cheers,

Nigel


On 13/11/2019 12:39, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:

On 11/13/2019 5:31 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
I actually have an original Hayes 300 modem. Would it be any use if I 
could set it up for a a test, or would it need another genuine Hayes 
one to talk to for what you need?


I looked at the SmartModem 300.  It looks like it completely detected 
the speed and parity internal to the unit.  If you have a manual or a 
link ot one to validate, I think that would suffice. If it did do 
that, then it would have reconfigured itself to match the terminal and 
thus all communication would be in the same format (8N1, 7E1, etc).



I did a quick check for an online manual, but my Google-fu is weak today.

Jim

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
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   Nigel Johnson 


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Re: Question about modems

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I actually have an original Hayes 300 modem. Would it be any use if I 
could set it up for a a test, or would it need another genuine Hayes one 
to talk to for what you need?


cheers,

Nigel


On 13/11/2019 02:25, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
I am the author of tcpser, a UNIX/Windows program that emulates a 
Hayes modem.


Some time ago, Chris Osborn (FozzTexx) forked a copy of my project to 
fix some bugs and he also added in some parity code, which looks to 
strip parity from the incoming serial connection (in the case that the 
serial port is set as 8N1 and the computer attached to it sends in 7E1 
or similar.


I am working to merge in all of his changes into the mainline 
codebase, but I am unclear on prpper Hayes behavior.  His Readme says:


https://github.com/FozzTexx/tcpser/commit/5f0e28bb837463e597a1daf9b3c07e56af887b7d 



"I also made the modem routines automatically detect parity and ignore
it in AT commands and print out modem responses in matching
parity. Parity is *not* stripped when sending data over the
connection, which is how a real modem behaves. This may or may not be
what you want. Some servers will expect an 8 bit connection and may

not work."

Did Hayes modem really do that?  I thought most later modems self 
detected parity and speed and thus would have switched both the comm 
on the serial port and the data sent to the other side in the same 
parity (if the terminal was 7E1, the modem would configure as 7E1 and 
send 7 bit data to the other side.


But, maybe real modems did as Chris notes. Anyone have guidance on 
this?  The goal of tcpser is to emulate a Hayes modem as much as 
possible, but I never really thought about mismatched parity on the 
RS232 line and how to deal with it.


Jim


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: VAX & PDP-11 Stuff To Clean Out

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I'm starting to get heavily invested in rebuilding my microvax 2, it 
would be a shame if the cpu failed, so I'd like to put my name down for 
the KA630 pcu card if nobody local wants it.


cheers,

Nigel


On 08/11/2019 15:12, David Coolbear via cctech wrote:

Most of the items are spoken for but I still have the following:


Caminton CMX1651 Memory
M7606-AF KA630 CPU
M7620-AA KA650 CPU
M8067 Memory
M7168 VCB02 Bit Map
M7169 VCB02 Controller
M7608-BP MS630BB 4-Meg Memory
M7608-BP MS630BB 4-Meg Memory
SCD-RQD11/EC ESDI Controller
...so, mainly the VAX stuff. Priority goes to local pickup. I've had all of
these boards working at one time or another but I can't speak to their
current status.

David Coolbear
da...@thecoolbears.org


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Classic equipment available & my bad year.

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Your story is an inspiration to us all!  With all the modern medical 
technology and the human spirit,  there is never a reason to give up hope!


Best wishes for a full recovery,

Nigel Johnson

On 08/11/2019 17:27, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

Dave wow what a story.  I am glad you are recovering my well wishes to you
from me and my family.

Bill Degnan

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019, 5:20 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk 
wrote:


Hello Everyone.

I have had a major health incident which means that I have been
unresponsive
for several months. As I need to move in closer to town, I will be
disposing
of what remains of my collection (Things like: Altairs, Imsa, PET 2001,
Apple II, TRS-80s, lots of S100 carts etc.)

I have posted some preliminary information at:

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/sale.txt

This will be updated on a regular basis.

If you are interested in what happened to me, I have posted
some details at:

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/2019.txt

Dave Dunfield

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: VAX & PDP-11 Stuff To Clean Out

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Are you sure you won't ship the Maxtor ESDI drves?  I have a microvax 2 
here just crying out for them. Unfortunately CA is a five day drive away 
for me!


Nigel ve3id


On 06/11/2019 13:16, David Coolbear via cctech wrote:

I have the following 5-1/4" Drives that I would like to get rid of. These
have all been working at one time or another, but I have no idea what
condition they are in now.


Maxtor EXT 4330
Seagate ST4766N
Hitachi DK516-12
Maxtor XT-8760E
Maxtor XT-4170E

I also have the following QBUS cards to part with.

Module Number Part# Description Form
QBUS Extender D
M7504 DEQNA Ethernet D
M8043 DLV11 4xSLU D
M8043 DLV11 4xSLU D
M7941 DRV11 16 Bit Parallel D
M8186 KDF11 11/23 CPU D
M8186 KDF11 11/23 CPU D
M8189 KDJ11 11/73 CPU D
M8192-YB KDJ11 11/73 CPU D
M8192-YB KDJ11 11/73 CPU D
M8047 MXV11 ROM/RAM D
M7555 RQDX3 D
M8029 RXV21 RX02 Controller D
M7646 TQK50 Tape Controller D
M8044-DB Memory 16K 32K? D
M8044-DE Memory 16K 32K? D
DATARAM 63010 Q
Camington CMX1651 Memory Q
M7606-AF KA630 CPU Q
M7620-AA KA650 CPU Q
M7620-BA KA650 CPU Q
M7164 KDA50 SDI Controller Q
M7165 KDA50 SDI Controller Q
M5976-AA KZQSA SCSI Controller Q
M5976-AA KZQSA SCSI Controller Q
M8067 Memory Q
M7168 VCB02 Bit Map Q
M7169 VCB02 Controller Q
M7608-BP MS630BB 4-Meg Memory Q
M7608-BP MS630BB 4-Meg Memory Q
M7957 4xSLU Q
SCD-RQD11/EC ESDI Controller Q


All of these are FTAGH, but I wouldn't turn down a trade either. I'd be
interested in drive sleds for my BA123 or a spare power supply, also for
the BA123 or I'm always interested in M68K/M6809 stuff. I would prefer
local pickup near Livermore, CA. I don't believe that the drives are
shippable.

Please contact me directly at 


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: VAX & PDP-11 Stuff To Clean Out

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Are you sure you won't ship the Maxtor ESDI drves?  I have a microvax 2 
here just crying out for them. Unfortunately CA is a five day drive away 
for me!


Nigel ve3id


On 06/11/2019 13:16, David Coolbear via cctech wrote:

I have the following 5-1/4" Drives that I would like to get rid of. These
have all been working at one time or another, but I have no idea what
condition they are in now.


Maxtor EXT 4330
Seagate ST4766N
Hitachi DK516-12
Maxtor XT-8760E
Maxtor XT-4170E

I also have the following QBUS cards to part with.

Module Number Part# Description Form
QBUS Extender D
M7504 DEQNA Ethernet D
M8043 DLV11 4xSLU D
M8043 DLV11 4xSLU D
M7941 DRV11 16 Bit Parallel D
M8186 KDF11 11/23 CPU D
M8186 KDF11 11/23 CPU D
M8189 KDJ11 11/73 CPU D
M8192-YB KDJ11 11/73 CPU D
M8192-YB KDJ11 11/73 CPU D
M8047 MXV11 ROM/RAM D
M7555 RQDX3 D
M8029 RXV21 RX02 Controller D
M7646 TQK50 Tape Controller D
M8044-DB Memory 16K 32K? D
M8044-DE Memory 16K 32K? D
DATARAM 63010 Q
Camington CMX1651 Memory Q
M7606-AF KA630 CPU Q
M7620-AA KA650 CPU Q
M7620-BA KA650 CPU Q
M7164 KDA50 SDI Controller Q
M7165 KDA50 SDI Controller Q
M5976-AA KZQSA SCSI Controller Q
M5976-AA KZQSA SCSI Controller Q
M8067 Memory Q
M7168 VCB02 Bit Map Q
M7169 VCB02 Controller Q
M7608-BP MS630BB 4-Meg Memory Q
M7608-BP MS630BB 4-Meg Memory Q
M7957 4xSLU Q
SCD-RQD11/EC ESDI Controller Q


All of these are FTAGH, but I wouldn't turn down a trade either. I'd be
interested in drive sleds for my BA123 or a spare power supply, also for
the BA123 or I'm always interested in M68K/M6809 stuff. I would prefer
local pickup near Livermore, CA. I don't believe that the drives are
shippable.

Please contact me directly at 



--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 

Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print 
this message

Re: 8 inch floppies

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

In all my years of electronics troubleshooting, I have never spent hours 
under a microscope :-)  OK, it was easier using the RTL of the Univac 
418, but even today the parts are big enough to see!


On 26/10/2019 17:42, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Hidden behind a NYTimes paywall, . . .
news yesterday that the 8 inch drive nuclear weapions system has now 
been updated.


On Sat, 26 Oct 2019, John Foust via cctalk wrote:

And what media or method did they upgrade to?  Top secret?
Here's a different version of the story:
https://www.c4isrnet.com/air/2019/10/17/the-us-nuclear-forces-dr-strangelove-era-messaging-system-finally-got-rid-of-its-floppy-disks/ 



Thanks for the URL
Amusing that requiring repair technicians having ability to "solder 
metal" was one of the major problems.



The USUAL progression from 8" floppies was to 35 track (later 40 
track) single sided (later double) FM single density (later MFM) 48tpi 
(later 96tpi) 5.25".
But, an easier conversion would be straight to "1.2M", which would 
need few hardware changes other than a custom cable.
(In fact, the first Mitsubishi 1.2M drive that I got had a 50 pin 
connector; later 4854s had a 34 pin connector)


But, why not cards or paper tape?

Or, if they want to expand speed and capacity, ST506, or even ST412.

They could go to thumb drives, such as Stuxnet

Or, was the main goal to give it a publicly accessible IP address?
("War Games" is playing on MPLEX right now)


Besides convenient recreational Facebook access for staff technicians, 
why is web browsing implemented on MRI control computers or on WOPR?



BTW, the superceded drives and media will remain "classified" until 
they crumble, and our surplus channels will not get a sudden major 
influx of available media.


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Philips mini computers

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Are we talking about ISA-bus computers here?  If so the colour graphics 
card was a Persyst Bob card, and the bi-sync adapter, if equipped, was 
also made by Persyst.  I know because I signed them to the contract to 
buy those two items. I know about their high standards of Quality 
Control because they rejected about 1/3 of my initial shipments!


In 1985, every computer that included a CRT made by Philips was made at 
their factory in Ste. Laurent, QC, or so their engineers told me.


cheers,

Nigel (then known as Bill) Johnson


On 26/10/2019 13:53, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:


On 2019-10-26 19:44, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:36 PM nico de jong via cctalk
 wrote:

Hi all,

Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.

Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying
to collect what is left of the documentation.
My first minicomputer (which I still have and can see from where I am 
sitting)
was a Philips P850. I now also own a P851 and a P854 (both with 
floppy drives)

and lots of spares.

As for documentation I have the CPU (only) technical manual for the 
P850,
the 2 volumes of schematics for the P851 and the preliminary manual 
(alas

without the microcode source) for the P854. Some other schematics for
things like the P854's PSU, the 4 channel serial port, floppy disk 
system, etc.


User manuals for at least the P850 and P851. And some software-related
manuals, manuals on related machines, etc but I would have to check 
exactly

what I have there.

-tony'


Hi Tony

The manuals you mention, don't ring a bell.

We have now more-or-less rejuvenated a PTS6813 aka P857, although 
without the discs.


Furthermore, we have the parts to build a P852 from spare parts.

In order to test things, I've developped a simulator and assembler for 
the P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I have 
no documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from the 
documents you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them first?


Thanks

Nico

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Anyone familiar with these vintage touchscreens?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

You are absolutely right about the economics! The only one I ever saw in 
operation was in the Eaton Centre in Toronto, just around the corner 
from the Bell Simcoe office where I worked on the server!


cheers,

Nigel



On 20/10/2019 15:20, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

As an FYI, the YouTube comments description of the system is:
"Published on Oct 19, 2019
10/9/1985: Farm Fresh grocery stores unveil new cutting-edge technology: store 
kiosks that help shoppers map out where to find items in their stores. The kiosks 
appear to be running Apple II software."


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 20, 2019, at 12:10, Brent Hilpert via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:

On 2019-Oct-20, at 9:14 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.

The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.

It was called teletext despite the implications, at least here in Canada.  
People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!

It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was better than 
yours?


For elucidation, here's an example of a Canadian Telidon terminal with display 
examples:
http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html

(The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)

Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
(Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol was such 
as to permit a range of compatible implementations.)

While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a Telidon/NAPLPS 
terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II (or similar) as others 
mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone unit. I think using a 
videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would have been awkward and the 
economics poor, there'd either have to be a rented comm line to a remote 
server, an additional local server, or storage hacked onto the terminal.

The touch-screen is another issue, while it could have been supported in a 
proprietary manner I'm not aware of explicit support for touch-screens in the 
protocol.

I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard) came rather late 
in the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for a dying project. As 
"Telidon", it had begun years earlier.

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Anyone familiar with these vintage touchscreens?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

You are probably right about the 6809, the stuff I worked on was all in 
the development stages for the project, and at the server end.  I did 
field engineering for Transduction, and we supplied equipment to Norpak, 
although I can't for the life of me remember what!  I remember going to 
visit their headquarters in Pakenham and was surprised to find it was a 
set of farm outbuildings!  That was the NORton family of PAKenham, 
whence they got the name.


The development system from Carling Drive in Ottawa was transferred to 
Bell's Simcoe Street office in Toronto when they went live, and I got a 
service call there to work on the DMAX/16s again, as somebody ad removed 
the remote diagnostics panel from the PDP11/70  and forgot to replace 
the NPG jumper on the backplane, causing bus hangs.


cheers,

Nigel (for people who knew me back then, I was called 'Bill' Johnson!)



On 20/10/2019 15:09, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2019-Oct-20, at 9:14 AM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:

On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk 
wrote:

Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. [...]
It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the 
other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the 
name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a 
particular

appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.

The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.
It was called teletext despite the implications, at least here in 
Canada. People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!


It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was 
better than yours?


For elucidation, here's an example of a Canadian Telidon terminal with 
display examples:

http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html

(The processor is indeed a 6809, as Diane was mentioning.)

Graphics was very much a part of the Telidon/NAPLPS protocol.
(Note: Colour capabilities may differ between terminals, the protocol 
was such as to permit a range of compatible implementations.)


While the store directory terminal of the OP 'could' have been a 
Telidon/NAPLPS terminal, I'd be placing my bets more on the Apple-II 
(or similar) as others mentioned. Strikes me more as a standalone 
unit. I think using a videotex/teletext/Telidon/NAPLPS terminal would 
have been awkward and the economics poor, there'd either have to be a 
rented comm line to a remote server, an additional local server, or 
storage hacked onto the terminal.


The touch-screen is another issue, while it could have been supported 
in a proprietary manner I'm not aware of explicit support for 
touch-screens in the protocol.


I believe the NAPLPS designation (designation as an industry standard) 
came rather late in the game, an attempt to gain some recognition for 
a dying project. As "Telidon", it had begun years earlier.




--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 

Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print 
this message

Re: Anyone familiar with these vintage touchscreens?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

It was called teletext despite the implications, at least here in 
Canada.  People just couldn't get their tongue around NAPLPS!


It looks just like the teletext systems I worked on, maybe ours was 
better than yours?


cheers,

Nigel


On 20/10/2019 06:43, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 02:23:46PM -0400, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:

Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. [...]

It's not Teletext, unless that word means something different on the other side
of the Pond. Teletext was basically a text system (the hint's in the name) with
graphics (and indeed colour) being a weird hack that gave it a particular
appearance, especially in typical implementations which used the SAA5050
character generator chip.

The palette and colour fringing suggest Apple II to me.

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: plated wire memory

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

I remember an IBM engineer talking about this at our ham radio club. The 
wire was coiled inside a drum and pulses were sent down the wire.  The 
'read head' was  a magnetic pickup at the other end of the coil - and 
access time was however long it took the pulse to arrive at the other 
end.  Therefore storage capacity was inversely proportional to data 
quantity, however at that time I was working with 660kB Univac FH330 
drums for swapping and the 2-ton Fastrand for 164kB of long-term 
storage, so it has to be taken in context!


Although the read was actually non-destructive, the pulse had to be 
regenerated to go around agaiun.


Is that maybe what you are thinking of?

cheers,

Nigel


On 20/10/2019 10:35, dwight via cctalk wrote:

I was just listening to a video on the Voyager space craft. It used an 
interesting type of memory, called magnetic wire memory. There is only a little 
bit of information of it on the web. It is clever in that has a non-destructive 
read. I just wondered if any one else was familiar with this type of memory.
Dwight


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Anyone familiar with these vintage touchscreens?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Are you sure it wasn't the massive over-funding by government that 
killed it?


On 19/10/2019 14:35, ben via cctalk wrote:

On 10/19/2019 12:23 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. There were 
various field trials of such systems around that era.  We had one in 
Toronto's Eaton Centre - it was based on NAPLPS, and used a PDP11/23. 
There was a lot of Canadian Government money put into research to 
promote he Canadian vector-based protocol, claimed to be more 
efficient than the European alpha-mosaic ones.  Ours ran at 
1200/150(?) baud.


Research was done at a Bell Canada site on Carlingview Avenue in 
Ottawa under some sort of sub-contract.   They used Able DMAXes on an 
11/70 which had a pot to adjust the 150 baud clock.  They actually 
flew me up from Toronto, with a scope, to adjust that pot, since 
everybody there was hands-off this external stuff.


It may have had a future if HTTP and the internet were not just 
around the corner:-)


Well I think Hook up up to your TV and slower than  hell cheap decoders
killed the NAPLPS rather than the internet is comming.
Ben.

 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: Anyone familiar with these vintage touchscreens?

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Judging by the year, it was probably a teletext terminal. There were 
various field trials of such systems around that era.  We had one in 
Toronto's Eaton Centre - it was based on NAPLPS, and used a PDP11/23.  
There was a lot of Canadian Government money put into research to 
promote he Canadian vector-based protocol, claimed to be more efficient 
than the European alpha-mosaic ones.  Ours ran at 1200/150(?) baud.


Research was done at a Bell Canada site on Carlingview Avenue in Ottawa 
under some sort of sub-contract.   They used Able DMAXes on an 11/70 
which had a pot to adjust the 150 baud clock.  They actually flew me up 
from Toronto, with a scope, to adjust that pot, since everybody there 
was hands-off this external stuff.


It may have had a future if HTTP and the internet were not just around 
the corner:-)


One of the big players in Canada was Infomart, where I installed a bunch 
of kit on PDP11s, just around the corner from where I now live in Toronto.


cheers,

Nigel


On 19/10/2019 14:02, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:

Hi!

I saw this crop up on twitter and now I’m curious. Anyone familiar with
these? Any idea what the backend was?

https://twitter.com/newsfedora/status/1154813199054712833?s=21



--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 

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