Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Mark said > How about removing the (presumably aluminum) platters, case castings, and any > other aluminum parts, grinding it all down to fine aluminum flakes, making > thermite out of that, then using it to slag the rest of the non-aluminum > parts? > > Then shoot the slag pile with a .50 BMG. > > Then drop that into lava. > > Then scoop out the contaminated lava and drop it into a singularity. > > Becase overkill is best kind of kill. > > Did I miss any steps? You forgot to degauss the platters first.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Sat, 22 Sep 2018, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote: J> How about removing the (presumably aluminum) platters, case castings, and any other aluminum parts, grinding it all down to fine aluminum flakes, making thermite out of that, then using it to slag the rest of the non-aluminum parts? Then shoot the slag pile with a .50 BMG. Then drop that into lava. Then scoop out the contaminated lava and drop it into a singularity. OR carfully pack that into the original Seagate package, gift-wrap it, and let it get stolen. Becase overkill is best kind of kill. Did I miss any steps? Oh, yeah: Play country music the whole time, to make it all more painful for the drives. We might have to draw a line at some point. Although country music would make a good soundtrack for the YouTube video "How to refurbish an ST3000DM001" Need some SEO to make that the first hit on every search for Seagate. Q: Is that the worst drive you've ever encountered?
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On 2018-09-22 5:28 p.m., Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote: > > How about removing the (presumably aluminum) platters How about drawing a discreet close to this ** offtopic thread.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
How about removing the (presumably aluminum) platters, case castings, and any other aluminum parts, grinding it all down to fine aluminum flakes, making thermite out of that, then using it to slag the rest of the non-aluminum parts? Then shoot the slag pile with a .50 BMG. Then drop that into lava. Then scoop out the contaminated lava and drop it into a singularity. Becase overkill is best kind of kill. Did I miss any steps? Oh, yeah: Play country music the whole time, to make it all more painful for the drives. -- Mark J. Blair http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
> From: Alexandre Souza > What about a nuclear bomb? OK, if we're going to start being _really_ silly. drop them into a singularity! :-) The best part is that you'll get to watch them being ripped apart and destroyed by tidal forces _forever_ (since time dilation means that as they go over the event horizon, their local time seems to stop compared to ours). Noel
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
What about a nuclear bomb? 2018-09-21 20:05 GMT-03:00 dwight via cctalk : > I'd think a nice blast with a oxy-acetylene torch should do what is > needed. Even if it doesn't melt the disk, it will surely exceed the Currie > point and all data is gone. > > Dwight > > > > From: cctalk on behalf of Jerry Weiss via > cctalk > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2018 2:49:30 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 > disk drives > > On 9/21/18 1:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > >> That's way too good for these *
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
I'd think a nice blast with a oxy-acetylene torch should do what is needed. Even if it doesn't melt the disk, it will surely exceed the Currie point and all data is gone. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Jerry Weiss via cctalk Sent: Friday, September 21, 2018 2:49:30 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives On 9/21/18 1:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: >> That's way too good for these *
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Noel said > > From: Eric Smith > > > That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On 9/21/18 1:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
All the molten lava is done. You could still smash it with a lava rock. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Friday, September 21, 2018 11:36:25 AM To: Fred Cisin via cctalk Subject: Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives Anyone headed for Hawaii? It'd be interesting to see what some molten lava would do to one... --Chuck
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
5) as a test suite for development of thermite (Does Amazon sell pre-made thermite?) On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: Mostly #6, and a little bit of #5. I'd be delighted to offer "retaliation in kind for the SS damage of drives of Steve Jackson Games", but I don't think destroying my own drives provides that. You hadn't previously explicitly mentioned that they were yours. Let us know how your homemade recipe does on the Kilo-Seagate measurement scale.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On 09/21/2018 12:19 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 6:04 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Or just throw it in the garbage. > > That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 11:16 AM, Eric Smith via cctalk > wrote: > > On the other hand, > > 1) Reduce the likelihood that they will end up on eBay as "Seller >> Refurbished" or "New, other". >> 1b) to put on eBay as "New, other" or "seller refurbished", WITH PICTURES, >> as a commentary on eBay condition descriptions. > > > maybe after application of thermite I might sell them as "Seller > Refurbished". > > Eric At that point, sell them in an Art Gallery. Zane
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
> From: Eric Smith > That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Anyone headed for Hawaii? It'd be interesting to see what some molten lava would do to one... --Chuck
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Do any of the rifle ranges near Vegas rent use of a Browning 50 caliber machine gun? (or artillery?) Maybe a VERY high powered laser cutter, to cut the letters N F G THROUGH the drives. Convince North Korea that there would be special symbolism to attaching one to the nosecone of each of their nuclear missiles. Or: Convince North Korea that those are what they need to improve the data processing of their nuclear program. If they were mailed anonymously and unlabelled to various TLAs, how much effort would be wasted in the attempts to read them?
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Friday (09/21/2018 at 11:42AM -0600), Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Put it in a gift-wrapped box next to you on the bus. > > Whoever steals it will get just what they deserve. > > > > :-) > > But actually I wouldn't wish ST3000DM001 drives on my worst enemy! Ship them across town by FedEx, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCGBNj-aSwA -- Chris Elmquist
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Eric hasn't specified [and shouldn't have to] as to WHY, > but here are some idle speculations: > Mostly #6, and a little bit of #5. I'd be delighted to offer "retaliation in kind for the SS damage of drives of Steve Jackson Games", but I don't think destroying my own drives provides that. > 5) as a test suite for development of thermite (Does Amazon sell pre-made > thermite?) > > 6) Maybe Eric just wants to vent some anger over problems he had with them On the other hand, 1) Reduce the likelihood that they will end up on eBay as "Seller > Refurbished" or "New, other". > 1b) to put on eBay as "New, other" or "seller refurbished", WITH PICTURES, > as a commentary on eBay condition descriptions. maybe after application of thermite I might sell them as "Seller Refurbished". Eric
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 12:04:39PM +, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Or just throw it in the garbage. [...] More satisfying: write "Bitcoins" on it before leaving it lying around somewhere it's likely to get stolen.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On 2018-09-21 13:42, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Put it in a gift-wrapped box next to you on the bus. >> Whoever steals it will get just what they deserve. >> > > :-) > > But actually I wouldn't wish ST3000DM001 drives on my worst enemy! Keep them for "Independence Day III" ;-)
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Put it in a gift-wrapped box next to you on the bus. > Whoever steals it will get just what they deserve. > :-) But actually I wouldn't wish ST3000DM001 drives on my worst enemy!
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Or just throw it in the garbage. Do you really think people are going thru your stuff looking for data? Put it in a gift-wrapped box next to you on the bus. Whoever steals it will get just what they deserve.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
If I wanted to reduce a drive to slag, I’d just put it in a propane furnace (actually the drive would go into the crucible). They generate up to 2700F (~1500C) and they’re for melting gold, silver, copper, etc. So I suspect it would do the job. ;-) Plus you’d a nice molten mess that you can pour out. TTFN - Guy > On Sep 21, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk > wrote: > > Hmmm... OK take a giant sledge and beat the living hell out of it > > > Great physical release and data pretty well toast... and the sound > is glorious! > > And besides you get some exercise! > > Ed# > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/21/2018 9:20:25 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 6:04 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Or just throw it in the garbage. > > > That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Hmmm... OK take a giant sledge and beat the living hell out of it Great physical release and data pretty well toast... and the sound is glorious! And besides you get some exercise! Ed# In a message dated 9/21/2018 9:20:25 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 6:04 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Or just throw it in the garbage. That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 6:51 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Burning of potassium permanganate to manganese greensand will often get it > going. You are on your own for figuring out how to do that. > Multiple sources, including Robert on this list, tell me just to use magnesium ribbon. I just looked it up; it's inexpensive and should be very easy to use. > Thermite is not the ultimate destructive force some people seem to think it > is. If you're trying to totally liquefy the platters you'll probably need > to remove them from the drives and put them in something capable of > containing the thermite for at least a little while (e.g. graphite > crucible). The usual, "put it in a flower pot" will likely either result in > a mess or a smallish hole through the platter, which really isn't any > better than running a drill through it. > All the more reason to experiment with it! Elsewhere it's been suggested that somewhere between 0.25 and 0.5 kg of thermite ought to do the job without needing to disassemble the drive first. I've got sixteen drives to experiment with.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 6:04 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Or just throw it in the garbage. That's way too good for these
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On 20 September 2018 at 23:20, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? > NIST SP 800-88 Rev. 1? There is some milspec about sanding the platters that actually specified what grit to use but I do not remember the title. N.
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Take them up to the 'range, around Virginia or Eveleth MN, and pay one of the demo crews to stick the drives at the bottom of their next borehole. Ka-blooey! Nothing left but an artificial bauxite deposit. On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 7:10 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > I can only assume someone is paying you to do this for insurance or legal > purposes. There is a good poem, "John Barleycorn Must Die" which has a lot > of useful suggestions. > bill > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:04 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > Or just throw it in the garbage. Do you really think people are going > > thru your > > > > stuff looking for data? > > > > > > bill > > > > > > > > On 09/20/2018 11:37 PM, drlegendre via cctalk wrote: > > > If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & > > > safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, > > proportions? > > >> > > >> The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with > ferric > > >> oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide > > would > > >> help with that. > > >> > > >> Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > > >> * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > > >> * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > > >> * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 > > >> > > > > >
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Burning of potassium permanganate to manganese greensand will often get it going. You are on your own for figuring out how to do that. Thermite is not the ultimate destructive force some people seem to think it is. If you're trying to totally liquefy the platters you'll probably need to remove them from the drives and put them in something capable of containing the thermite for at least a little while (e.g. graphite crucible). The usual, "put it in a flower pot" will likely either result in a mess or a smallish hole through the platter, which really isn't any better than running a drill through it. The suggestion of using an acetylene torch is far more practical, if you for some reason are really needing to turn platters into blobs. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:45 AM Robert via cctalk wrote: > If my memory of O Level chemistry classes is anything to go by, the > idea was that you used a piece of Magnesium ribbon to ignite it. I > don't recall Manganese Dioxide being part of the recipe. > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? > > > > The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric > > oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would > > help with that. > > > > Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > > * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > > * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > > * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 >
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
I can only assume someone is paying you to do this for insurance or legal purposes. There is a good poem, "John Barleycorn Must Die" which has a lot of useful suggestions. bill On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 8:04 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Or just throw it in the garbage. Do you really think people are going > thru your > > stuff looking for data? > > > bill > > > > On 09/20/2018 11:37 PM, drlegendre via cctalk wrote: > > If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & > > safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. > > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, > proportions? > >> > >> The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric > >> oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide > would > >> help with that. > >> > >> Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > >> * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > >> * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > >> * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 > >> > >
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Or just throw it in the garbage. Do you really think people are going thru your stuff looking for data? bill On 09/20/2018 11:37 PM, drlegendre via cctalk wrote: > If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & > safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk > wrote: > >> Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? >> >> The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric >> oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would >> help with that. >> >> Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: >> * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 >> * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 >> * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 >>
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
If my memory of O Level chemistry classes is anything to go by, the idea was that you used a piece of Magnesium ribbon to ignite it. I don't recall Manganese Dioxide being part of the recipe. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? > > The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric > oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would > help with that. > > Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Be aware that a cheap way of making fairly pure oxygen is just by heating up manganese dioxide, which will cause anything that is a like a flame to burn much hotter. I remember doing an experiment in grade school where you heat up a tablespoonfull of MD in a test tube with an alcohol burner or (even a match under the tube), then slowly insert a popsicle stick with a glowing ember (you light the stick with a match then blow it out to get the glowing ember). The result is that the stick bursts into flame rather violently. Just saying "BE CAREFUL". Wayne > On Sep 20, 2018, at 9:39 PM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk > wrote: > > Have you heard about a pointy hammer? :) > > > 2018-09-21 0:37 GMT-03:00 drlegendre via cctalk : > >> If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & >> safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. >> >> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk < >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? >>> >>> The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric >>> oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would >>> help with that. >>> >>> Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: >>> * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 >>> * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 >>> * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 >>
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
I find it enjoyable to disassemble the drives that I want to dispose of. I take all of the metal bits and throw them in my scrap metal recycling bin. I throw the boards in my electronics/e-waste recycling bin. I used to keep the magnets, but I have a pretty good magnet collection now and, with newer drives, it is too much work to remove the magnets from the parts they are bonded to. alan On 9/20/18 9:39 PM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote: Have you heard about a pointy hammer? :) 2018-09-21 0:37 GMT-03:00 drlegendre via cctalk : If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would help with that. Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Have you heard about a pointy hammer? :) 2018-09-21 0:37 GMT-03:00 drlegendre via cctalk : > If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & > safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? > > > > The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric > > oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would > > help with that. > > > > Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > > * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > > * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > > * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 > > >
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
If you're that intent on firey destruction, it would be much simpler & safer to use an oxyacetylene cutting torch, or a plasma cutter. On Thu, Sep 20, 2018, 10:20 PM Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? > > The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric > oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would > help with that. > > Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 >
Re: Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
On 09/20/2018 08:20 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? > > The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric > oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would > help with that. > > Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: > * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 > * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 > * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39 I'd just give the drive to my friend with a big chipper "hog" and watch the destruction. Maybe run over it with his D8 Cat a few times. A good hydraulic press should help. Or just melt the thing down in a forge. --Chuck
Advice requested on proper disposal of Seagate ST3000DM001 disk drives
Anyone have advice on making thermite? Ingredients, sources, proportions? The internet seems to think that just using aluminum powder with ferric oxide is relatively hard to ignite, and that some manganese dioxide would help with that. Without spending too much time shopping, it looks like I can get: * aluminum powder, 5 micron, 2 lb for $34 * ferric oxide, 10 lb for $27 * manganese dioxide, 1 lb for $39
