Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/11/2017 07:22 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> Lincoln had ETAOIN on his personalized MN license plate (on the very well 
> worn Ford full size van he drove) and another guy had SHRDLU on his plates.
> 
> I was told that the name came from this string which could be found in 
> printed works and that people had always seen it but just read past it 
> because it didn't fit or make sense.  I believe it was Neil's youngest son 
> Brian who offered up this name but I'm not remembering why anymore.
> 
> There was also a Lincoln story that ETA was like The Eta, a Spanish terrorist 
> group and all of us at ETA were going to terrorize the supercomputer industry.

I'd say that the second was apocryphal.

It was around 1983 when Neil dropped by to talk to us that he told the
ETAOIN SHRDLU source of the ETA name and his son's part in the naming.

Hey, that was almost 35 years ago.  I have trouble remembering where I
put my glasses (sometimes they're on my head...)

--Chuck

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

Lincoln had ETAOIN on his personalized MN license plate (on the very well worn 
Ford full size van he drove) and another guy had SHRDLU on his plates.

I was told that the name came from this string which could be found in printed 
works and that people had always seen it but just read past it because it 
didn't fit or make sense.  I believe it was Neil's youngest son Brian who 
offered up this name but I'm not remembering why anymore.

There was also a Lincoln story that ETA was like The Eta, a Spanish terrorist 
group and all of us at ETA were going to terrorize the supercomputer industry.

Chris

On September 10, 2017 9:55:02 PM CDT, Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
 wrote:
>On 09/10/2017 06:25 PM, Tapley, Mark via cctalk wrote:
>
>> There was one of those machines in my Junior High School shop
>> classroom. I saw it run once (not well enough to successfully set a
>> line of type, but nearly).
>> 
>> I endorse Mark’s assessment of its safety characteristics...
>
>I knew a fellow who had one of them in his barn--and he set the local
>freebie weekly newspaper with it.   Open gas flame, hot type metal
>that's mostly lead, lots of open whirling parts--what's not to like?
>
>Running one is definitely a real skill.  ETAOIN SHRDLU CMFWYP...
>
>Neil Lincoln once told me that the name of ETA Systems back in the 80s
>was suggested by his son.  Neil knew about the Linotype order, but it
>was unclear to me if his son got it from a literary work (there were
>several) or from the actual machine.  Chris Elmquist might know.
>
>FWIW, the "assembler" in a Linotype machine is where the type matrices
>drop down in a row, ready for "kerning".  Another non-computer use of
>the word.
>
>--Chuck

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/11/2017 11:09 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

> No, not kerning.  Justifying.  Linotype machines can't kern; when that's done 
> in metal typesetting, which is rare, it involves cutting bevels onto the 
> sides of the type blocks to allow them to partly overlap.

You're correct; I misstated the process.

--Chuck

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Sep 10, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 09/10/2017 06:25 PM, Tapley, Mark via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> There was one of those machines in my Junior High School shop
>> classroom. I saw it run once (not well enough to successfully set a
>> line of type, but nearly).
>> 
>> I endorse Mark’s assessment of its safety characteristics...
> 
> I knew a fellow who had one of them in his barn--and he set the local
> freebie weekly newspaper with it.   Open gas flame, hot type metal
> that's mostly lead, lots of open whirling parts--what's not to like?

They did offer a safer heater (electric) as an alternative.

> Running one is definitely a real skill.  ETAOIN SHRDLU CMFWYP...

There are some nice training videos (Italian, mostly showing a Linotype clone 
(Intertype?)) on the web.

> Neil Lincoln once told me that the name of ETA Systems back in the 80s
> was suggested by his son.  Neil knew about the Linotype order, but it
> was unclear to me if his son got it from a literary work (there were
> several) or from the actual machine.  Chris Elmquist might know.
> 
> FWIW, the "assembler" in a Linotype machine is where the type matrices
> drop down in a row, ready for "kerning".  Another non-computer use of
> the word.

No, not kerning.  Justifying.  Linotype machines can't kern; when that's done 
in metal typesetting, which is rare, it involves cutting bevels onto the sides 
of the type blocks to allow them to partly overlap.

paul

RE: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade
> via cctalk
> Sent: 11 September 2017 10:28
> To: 'Chuck Guzis' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-
> Topic Posts' 
> Subject: RE: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a
computer
> Early adopt
> 
> Alan Turing used the Teletypes on the Manchester MK1 to write letters. I
doubt
> he had any software, just typed, perhaps using paper tape to edit.
> 


Talking of Alan Turing, seen these?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41082391
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/lost-turing-letters-give-unique-in
sight-into-his-academic-life-prior-to-death

I think they found this when looking for stuff for me for MU5. I got to see
them still in the filing cabinet a few months ago when I went there
researching MU5.

Regards

Rob

RE: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

Alan Turing used the Teletypes on the Manchester MK1 to write letters. I
doubt he had any software, just typed, perhaps using paper tape to edit. 

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis via cctalk
> Sent: 11 September 2017 03:55
> To: Tapley, Mark via cctalk 
> Subject: Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a
> computer Early adopt
> 
> On 09/10/2017 06:25 PM, Tapley, Mark via cctalk wrote:
> 
> > There was one of those machines in my Junior High School shop
> > classroom. I saw it run once (not well enough to successfully set a
> > line of type, but nearly).
> >
> > I endorse Mark's assessment of its safety characteristics...
> 
> I knew a fellow who had one of them in his barn--and he set the local
> freebie weekly newspaper with it.   Open gas flame, hot type metal
> that's mostly lead, lots of open whirling parts--what's not to like?
> 
> Running one is definitely a real skill.  ETAOIN SHRDLU CMFWYP...
> 
> Neil Lincoln once told me that the name of ETA Systems back in the 80s was
> suggested by his son.  Neil knew about the Linotype order, but it was
unclear
> to me if his son got it from a literary work (there were
> several) or from the actual machine.  Chris Elmquist might know.
> 
> FWIW, the "assembler" in a Linotype machine is where the type matrices
> drop down in a row, ready for "kerning".  Another non-computer use of the
> word.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> 

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/10/2017 06:25 PM, Tapley, Mark via cctalk wrote:

> There was one of those machines in my Junior High School shop
> classroom. I saw it run once (not well enough to successfully set a
> line of type, but nearly).
> 
> I endorse Mark’s assessment of its safety characteristics...

I knew a fellow who had one of them in his barn--and he set the local
freebie weekly newspaper with it.   Open gas flame, hot type metal
that's mostly lead, lots of open whirling parts--what's not to like?

Running one is definitely a real skill.  ETAOIN SHRDLU CMFWYP...

Neil Lincoln once told me that the name of ETA Systems back in the 80s
was suggested by his son.  Neil knew about the Linotype order, but it
was unclear to me if his son got it from a literary work (there were
several) or from the actual machine.  Chris Elmquist might know.

FWIW, the "assembler" in a Linotype machine is where the type matrices
drop down in a row, ready for "kerning".  Another non-computer use of
the word.

--Chuck

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Tapley, Mark via cctalk]

On Sep 10, 2017, at 7:55 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk  
wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 04:55:48PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> Not nearly as funny to watch as a Mergenthaler Linotype hot-type
>> machine, I'll wager.
> 
> I got to see one in use my freshman year of college.  The school
> newspaper was still set that way (out of loyalty for the people
> who had done it for decades) but that was the last year.
> 
> I assure you in the strongest possible terms that this was pre-OSHA.

There was one of those machines in my Junior High School shop classroom. I saw 
it run once (not well enough to successfully set a line of type, but nearly).

I endorse Mark’s assessment of its safety characteristics...

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 04:55:48PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> Not nearly as funny to watch as a Mergenthaler Linotype hot-type
> machine, I'll wager.

I got to see one in use my freshman year of college.  The school
newspaper was still set that way (out of loyalty for the people
who had done it for decades) but that was the last year.

I assure you in the strongest possible terms that this was pre-OSHA.

mcl

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/10/2017 03:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> I tried to interest my publisher in going straight from microcomputer
> into typesetting machine, but I couldn't do that disk format, and the
> Rochester Dynatyper was too funny to watch. 

Not nearly as funny to watch as a Mergenthaler Linotype hot-type
machine, I'll wager.

--Chuck

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Fred, you forgot that Tesla invented alternating current...


I wasn't around for that stuff.
From what I've heard, he didn't get into public electrocutions to 

demonstrate.


It seems that anything with a typewriter style keyboard and ANY sort of 
storage would get used for correspondence and manuscripts.  Then, business 
letters started to be obsessed with print quality.



BTW, Sam Clemens (Mark Twain) is credited with being first to submit a 
typewritten manuscript.  That may be true.  'Course really obscure 
manuscript submissions would have been ignored or forgotten, so unless we 
have an exhaustive count of typewriters sold, and exhaustive records of 
publishers, the claim should remain as "probably".
ALL history "FIRST"s are subject to the obscure prior entries being 
forgotten.  After all, history teachers still call Columbus "FIRST"!



I tried to interest my publisher in going straight from microcomputer into 
typesetting machine, but I couldn't do that disk format, and the Rochester 
Dynatyper was too funny to watch.  My publisher's wife did not see it as 
being a sufficient benefit over her re-typing into the typesetter 
keyboard.

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/10/2017 11:08 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> But, there were MANY obscure, mostly unpublished, manuscripts among the
> VERY first uses of word processing.  Well before Jerry got into computers.

In fact, I'm aware of at least one novel that was composed using punched
cards on a mainframe.  Using computers to prepare text pre-dates
microprocessors by a country mile.  Calling it "word processing" was a
later innovation.

That being said, I enjoyed Jerry's USENET postings back in the day
immensely.

Fred, you forgot that Tesla invented alternating current...

--Chuck

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

RIP  Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer

FIRST??!?
By now, you should know better than to EVER use that word in the presence 
of those who were there during the history - it's comparable to saying 
that Steve Jobs invented the first computer, or that billg invented the 
first software.


NO.
He was an early adopter.
He was a major influence.
He was a friend.   (and sometimes a pompous buffoon of a friend)

My booth staff at Comdex and West Coast Computer Faire were under strict 
orders to get a beer into his hand as soon as they saw him.  We got some 
free ink, and not just for the cold beer.  He and Roberta [Pournelle] 
convinced "Bait" to specialize in computers in her booth-bimbo career, 
surprised that she didn't end up CEO of HP or the like.
(In my company, similar to Autodesk, people chose their own job titles.  I 
was "Programmer".  My assistant eventually changed from "Emperor of The 
Galaxy" to "VP")



But, there were MANY obscure, mostly unpublished, manuscripts among the 
VERY first uses of word processing.  Well before Jerry got into computers.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Ed via cctalk wrote:

RIP  Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer


Early  adopter
by Andrew  Liptak


https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/9/16279582/jerry-pournelle-science-fiction-a
uthor-writing-computers-obituary



sad  Ed#



--
Fred Cisin  ci...@xenosoft.com
XenoSofthttp://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 234-3397
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236

Re: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ed via cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:53 PM
Subject: RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer 
Early adopt


> 
> 
> 
> RIP  Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer
> 
> 
> Early  adopter
> by Andrew  Liptak
> 
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/9/16279582/jerry-pournelle-science-fiction-a
> uthor-writing-computers-obituary
> 
> 
> 
> sad  Ed#
>

Very sad indeed...

Slowly, one by one, our generation is becoming extinct...

m

RIP Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer Early adopt

[Ed via cctalk]

 
 
 
RIP  Jerry Pournelle, the first author to write a novel on a computer


Early  adopter
by Andrew  Liptak
 
 
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/9/16279582/jerry-pournelle-science-fiction-a
uthor-writing-computers-obituary
 
 
 
sad  Ed#