Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

+1 for the TDS540.


On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 11:54 shad via cctech 
wrote:

> Hello,
> all fine with Rigol or similar oscilloscopes, but there's a very important
> technical specification that often is not considered, which really DOES the
> difference between a cheap oscilloscope and a powerful one: waveforms per
> second.
> Suppose you are searching for a rare glitch, or that you are trying to
> trace an edge of a signal with infinite persistence.
> If the scope is a DSO, it just takes a sampling window,  the memory is full
> and requires data processing and display, in the meantime the signal is not
> analyzed, and you can lose important events.
> A DPO can capture the signal continuously, or at least with very short
> death time, and the display is updated using a large number of triggered
> sampling windows.
> Of course this kind requires a far powerful acquisition circuit.
>
> I really like DPO scopes in place of DSO, for example used Tek TDS540C or
> D, they are quite cheap, no electrolytic caps, and can be optionally
> expended to increase acquisition memory depth.
> Display is small and grey, but you can use a VGA monitor.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Andrea
>
-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[shadoooo via cctalk]

Hello,
all fine with Rigol or similar oscilloscopes, but there's a very important
technical specification that often is not considered, which really DOES the
difference between a cheap oscilloscope and a powerful one: waveforms per
second.
Suppose you are searching for a rare glitch, or that you are trying to
trace an edge of a signal with infinite persistence.
If the scope is a DSO, it just takes a sampling window,  the memory is full
and requires data processing and display, in the meantime the signal is not
analyzed, and you can lose important events.
A DPO can capture the signal continuously, or at least with very short
death time, and the display is updated using a large number of triggered
sampling windows.
Of course this kind requires a far powerful acquisition circuit.

I really like DPO scopes in place of DSO, for example used Tek TDS540C or
D, they are quite cheap, no electrolytic caps, and can be optionally
expended to increase acquisition memory depth.
Display is small and grey, but you can use a VGA monitor.

My two cents.

Andrea

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

We have lots of dual-trace Hitachi 25MHz analog 'scopes that were donated
by BMI. They are fine for the low speed work that typically do, and don't
have some of the interesting problems that digital 'scopes have. We can get
a deep discount on any of the 'scopes that BMI has:
https://www.bmisurplus.com/products/category/oscilloscopes.

I was looking at some of the mixed-signal 'scopes like the Rigol MSO1104Z.
Having a 'scope and a logic analyzer in the same instrument, with both
'scope and logic analyzer triggering would be very nice.

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 10:07 PM, dwight <dkel...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If it is your only scope I recommend an analog scope of at least 100 MHz,
> with dual trace and delayed sweep.
>
> If you already have an analog scope, I recommend a logic analyzer instead
> of a digital scope.
>
> If you already have both above, I recommend a digital scope.
>
> Dwight
>
>
> --
> *From:* cctech <cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Michael
> Thompson via cctech <cct...@classiccmp.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 29, 2017 4:15:33 PM
> *To:* allison
> *Cc:* General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> *Subject:* Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation
>
> Thanks for the recommendation
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 4:30 PM, allison <allisonporta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 04/29/2017 01:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
> >> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
> >> four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need
> to
> >> be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
> >>
> >> What would you suggest?
> >>
> > I use a RIgol DSO at work to replace a 200mhz Tek with power issues.
> Far better scope.
> > For the money we paid, 4 channels and wide band its very decent.  Being
> able to get
> > screen grabs to a USB stick is a big plus.
> >
> > I personally have a Rigol DS815T spec analyser with tracking generator
> and its a good performer.
> > Not up to the standards of a R FSH6 but about 1/15th the price.
> >
> >
> > Allison
>



-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

Great idea about looking for a non-profit discount. That might not work for
the Chinese 'scopes, but it could make the US 'scopes prices more
competitive.


On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Paul Anderson  wrote:

> I've almost always used TEK scopes, and liked them. What ever you choose,
> see if they will cut you a good deal for being a educational or non-profit.
> A lot of companies will, especially on a discontinued model.
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the recommendation
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 4:30 PM, allison  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 04/29/2017 01:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
>> >> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
>> >> four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need
>> to
>> >> be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
>> >>
>> >> What would you suggest?
>> >>
>> > I use a RIgol DSO at work to replace a 200mhz Tek with power issues.
>> Far better scope.
>> > For the money we paid, 4 channels and wide band its very decent.  Being
>> able to get
>> > screen grabs to a USB stick is a big plus.
>> >
>> > I personally have a Rigol DS815T spec analyser with tracking generator
>> and its a good performer.
>> > Not up to the standards of a R FSH6 but about 1/15th the price.
>> >
>> >
>> > Allison
>>
>
>


-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I've almost always used TEK scopes, and liked them. What ever you choose,
see if they will cut you a good deal for being a educational or non-profit.
A lot of companies will, especially on a discontinued model.

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the recommendation
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 4:30 PM, allison  wrote:
> >
> >> On 04/29/2017 01:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
> >> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
> >> four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need
> to
> >> be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
> >>
> >> What would you suggest?
> >>
> > I use a RIgol DSO at work to replace a 200mhz Tek with power issues.
> Far better scope.
> > For the money we paid, 4 channels and wide band its very decent.  Being
> able to get
> > screen grabs to a USB stick is a big plus.
> >
> > I personally have a Rigol DS815T spec analyser with tracking generator
> and its a good performer.
> > Not up to the standards of a R FSH6 but about 1/15th the price.
> >
> >
> > Allison
>

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

Thanks for the recommendation 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 4:30 PM, allison  wrote:
> 
>> On 04/29/2017 01:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
>> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
>> four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need to
>> be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
>> 
>> What would you suggest?
>> 
> I use a RIgol DSO at work to replace a 200mhz Tek with power issues.  Far 
> better scope.
> For the money we paid, 4 channels and wide band its very decent.  Being able 
> to get 
> screen grabs to a USB stick is a big plus.
> 
> I personally have a Rigol DS815T spec analyser with tracking generator and 
> its a good performer.
> Not up to the standards of a R FSH6 but about 1/15th the price.
> 
> 
> Allison

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[dwight via cctalk]

If it is your only scope I recommend an analog scope of at least 100 MHz, with 
dual trace and delayed sweep.

If you already have an analog scope, I recommend a logic analyzer instead of a 
digital scope.

If you already have both above, I recommend a digital scope.

Dwight



From: cctech <cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Michael Thompson via 
cctech <cct...@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 4:15:33 PM
To: allison
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

Thanks for the recommendation

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 4:30 PM, allison <allisonporta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04/29/2017 01:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
>> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
>> four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need to
>> be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
>>
>> What would you suggest?
>>
> I use a RIgol DSO at work to replace a 200mhz Tek with power issues.  Far 
> better scope.
> For the money we paid, 4 channels and wide band its very decent.  Being able 
> to get
> screen grabs to a USB stick is a big plus.
>
> I personally have a Rigol DS815T spec analyser with tracking generator and 
> its a good performer.
> Not up to the standards of a R FSH6 but about 1/15th the price.
>
>
> Allison

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[allison via cctalk]

On 04/29/2017 01:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
> four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need to
> be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
>
> What would you suggest?
>
I use a RIgol DSO at work to replace a 200mhz Tek with power issues. 
Far better scope.
For the money we paid, 4 channels and wide band its very decent.  Being
able to get
screen grabs to a USB stick is a big plus.

I personally have a Rigol DS815T spec analyser with tracking generator
and its a good performer.
Not up to the standards of a R FSH6 but about 1/15th the price.


Allison

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 4/29/2017 10:59 AM, Jon Elson via cctech wrote:

On 04/29/2017 12:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:

The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't 
need to

be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.

What would you suggest?

Really NEW, or just new for your museum?  I got a Tek 2465 on eBay 
that I am quite happy with, for quite a bit less money.  There are 
some decent import digital scopes (such as Rigol) that many people 
seem to find good.
If you are not familiar with digital scopes, there are some gotchas 
there.  You can't tell the trigger rate from looking at the screen, 
but then they can see what happened BEFORE the trigger event, and can 
freeze a single-shot event for you to look at.  The good Tek DPO 
scopes have not come down enough to meet your price range (yet).


Jon
Right now is prime time to evaluate and snag a HP Agilent 16700 with 
digital scope channels and logic analyzer channels to boot.  You might 
be able to snag one along with a new unit.  WRT to old equipment the HP 
Aglient 16xxx logic analyzers are pretty much the best for every device 
I've ever worked on.  I don't know that the glut of really nice hardware 
will last a long time.


Another thing to consider is the Saleae line of digital probes. There is 
a 16 channel unit with analog capture feature now.  That unit if you can 
capture at a rate that your hardware can handle will capture trace till 
you run out of space on the attached pc support device.


If you attach it to a signal that is serial, every channel on the logic 
analyzer becomes a serial protocol analyzer, and will export ascii 
serial to a file if you are doing that task, as a side benefit.


I'd budget at most 1/4 of your $1000 for that purchase if the donation 
allows that.


i've got the 8 channel unit.

Beware the saleae type units may be 3 v input, be sure to check that, as 
my suggestion won't be much use for that case.  I've not shopped them 
lately, but my older 8 channel unit is 3.3 max only, though I've used it 
on 0 - 5 v

thanks
jim

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 12:53, Chuck Guzis via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/29/2017 10:28 AM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
>> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like
>> a four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't
>> need to be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
> 
> The Rigol scopes have the features that you're looking for in your price
> range.  Dave on the YT EEVBlog has spent some time on them.
> 
> There have been some notable software bugs, but Rigol seems to be pretty
> diligent in eradicating them.
> 
> --Chuck

I have a Rigol DSO and absolutely love it.  Bought it from Saelig - they offer 
a nice discount to members of the EEVBLOG forum.   I have seen a couple of 
updates since I bought it.  Look for a sale where you can get some of the 
add-ons thrown in at no additional cost.

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 04/29/2017 12:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:

The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need to
be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.

What would you suggest?

Really NEW, or just new for your museum?  I got a Tek 2465 
on eBay that I am quite happy with, for quite a bit less 
money.  There are some decent import digital scopes (such as 
Rigol) that many people seem to find good.
If you are not familiar with digital scopes, there are some 
gotchas there.  You can't tell the trigger rate from looking 
at the screen, but then they can see what happened BEFORE 
the trigger event, and can freeze a single-shot event for 
you to look at.  The good Tek DPO scopes have not come down 
enough to meet your price range (yet).


Jon

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

I would suggest just about any used Tektronix TDS 200mhz or higher 4
channel scope with a good display- from the mid 90s or newer.

Make sure to look up the model year to ensure it has reliable caps.

I have not been a fan of the new designed-in-china test equipment like the
'rigol'


On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 10:59 Jon Elson via cctech 
wrote:

> On 04/29/2017 12:28 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
> > The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
> > four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need to
> > be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.
> >
> > What would you suggest?
> >
> Really NEW, or just new for your museum?  I got a Tek 2465
> on eBay that I am quite happy with, for quite a bit less
> money.  There are some decent import digital scopes (such as
> Rigol) that many people seem to find good.
> If you are not familiar with digital scopes, there are some
> gotchas there.  You can't tell the trigger rate from looking
> at the screen, but then they can see what happened BEFORE
> the trigger event, and can freeze a single-shot event for
> you to look at.  The good Tek DPO scopes have not come down
> enough to meet your price range (yet).
>
> Jon
>
-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 04/29/2017 10:28 AM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote:
> The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like
> a four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't
> need to be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.

The Rigol scopes have the features that you're looking for in your price
range.  Dave on the YT EEVBlog has spent some time on them.

There have been some notable software bugs, but Rigol seems to be pretty
diligent in eradicating them.

--Chuck

Re: Oscilloscope Recommendation

[Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk]

   The RICM just received $1,000 to buy a new oscilloscope. I would like a
   four channel. and color would also be nice. The bandwidth doesn't need to
   be high because we usually work on ancient equipment.

   What would you suggest?

Siglent or Rigol are good bang for the buck.  Rigol has a four channel
one, and they are far below 1000 USD.  I think Keysight made some
cheap-er scope recently too.

Or if you are in the states, get a old Tek -- you can get those really
cheap.