Re: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
- Original Message - From: "Toby Thain via cctalk" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal > On 2018-10-24 5:28 p.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: >> It's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get my TD700 working so, with all this >> talk about terminals missing keyboards, does anyone need/want a keyboard for >> a Burroughs TD700/TD800 type terminal? >> >> http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/images/0/0f/Burroughs_TD_700-3.jpg >> >> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/terminal/TD830.jpg >> >> Might have tech docs somewhere; Microswitch guts, parallel interface IIRC. >> >> m >> > > Sorry, gotta ask: Why not sell the whole setup? There are people on this > list who could probably fix it. > > --T I have a spare keyboard; thought I'd mention it in case someone actually has a relevant terminal needing a keyboard, as per the original discussion thread. As to getting the TD700 working: It's built around a card cage with (I think) 8 plug-in boards, several of which are missing (and it weighs a ton!) A while back I chatted with a couple of folks who also had one (not working) and although not totally impossible it really didn't look feasible without those boards; also of course there's no guarantee that the Panaplex panel is still working. I *may* actually have someone who'll take the whole thing but I thought I'd ask here to see if there's any interest. m
Re: Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 2018-10-24 5:28 p.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: > It's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get my TD700 working so, with all this > talk about terminals missing keyboards, does anyone need/want a keyboard for > a Burroughs TD700/TD800 type terminal? > > http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/images/0/0f/Burroughs_TD_700-3.jpg > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/terminal/TD830.jpg > > Might have tech docs somewhere; Microswitch guts, parallel interface IIRC. > > m > Sorry, gotta ask: Why not sell the whole setup? There are people on this list who could probably fix it. --T
Burroughs TD keyboard - was Selling keyboards without the terminal
It's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get my TD700 working so, with all this talk about terminals missing keyboards, does anyone need/want a keyboard for a Burroughs TD700/TD800 type terminal? http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/images/0/0f/Burroughs_TD_700-3.jpg http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/terminal/TD830.jpg Might have tech docs somewhere; Microswitch guts, parallel interface IIRC. m
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
Hi Chuck! Ah the frantic keys pounding and screaming while playing? Maybe yea I poke mine pretty slow... there are some days I have trouble making my fingers type... maybe I type too slow!!?! I am looking at a site that says cheap usb ps2 adapters are not active circuits thus can cause problems... I suspect mine are cheap ones any truth on this site? https://clickykeyboards.com/product/ps2-to-usb-adapter-converter-for-keyboards-short-usb-cable/ Ed# In a message dated 10/23/2018 1:26:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 10/23/18 1:09 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > dunno what being a gamer has to do with it working or not... It's always seemed to me that gamers use/abuse keyboards more than those of us who simply use them to type. Maybe that's a mistaken impression. --Chuck
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/23/18 1:09 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > dunno what being a gamer has to do with it working or not... It's always seemed to me that gamers use/abuse keyboards more than those of us who simply use them to type. Maybe that's a mistaken impression. --Chuck
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
dunno what being a gamer has to do with it working or not... my problem was it would just have the keyboard go away and not respond... tried several I had... worked on older computers... oh well! Ed# In a message dated 10/19/2018 11:14:11 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > So, at least I have an excuse. The model Ms work fine for me--I use one > of the PCPlay-based USB keyboard+mouse adapters. But then, I'm not a > gamer... > > --Chuck
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
I like my xps. I do not make grocery lists on it I edit news video with it... for video editing faster is better and what I really want is not yet fast enough! speaking of video and keyboards and computers... I need an AMIGA keyboard to go with the Amiga with video toaster one of our cable TV friends contributed for a display here... the enigma now is which display to put it in? computers or video production and television? Think I will put it in video production as what makes it unique is the video toaster card... Ed# In a message dated 10/19/2018 12:14:51 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: >>> the ps2 to usb adapters do not work well with my dell xps >>> go fast computer! >> That would explain all the extra spaces... On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, ben via cctalk wrote: > I wonder how many letters got deleated while the mail program's input got > lost as the fast computer popup windows kept popping up. > Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff, > even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8. Computer Software Boyle's Law: extraneous actions, features, ads, etc. will expand to fill all available space and speed resources. For example: Operating system distribution requires a double layer DVD, instead of a single sided 5.25" floppy. When you want to type a shopping list, is it quicker on the new machine? (How long from power cycle on the amazingly fast Dell XPS before Office gives you a blank document screen?) Does a shopping list need to have PICTURES of eggs? 10 years ago, at the college, a memo announcing a room or time change for a meeting was done on Word, printed in color, scanned, and attached to an email. (I'm not sure WHY, but how else to get a horizontal rule that was offset by a couple of pixels from one end to the other?) I wonder whether they have now switched from the same half dozen words now being done with video and sound? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 at 12:50, Yvan Janssens via cctalk wrote: > > So, I have built a USB adapter for my 5150’s keyboard. The experience is > actually quite bad, as stated earlier. The main reason why I still use it > is because I took it with me from Belgium - it’s a French keyboard, and > having access to all the special characters makes typing in eg. French, > German or Spanish so much easier in the odd cases I have to. I use a Compose key. Built in to Linux, easy to add to Windows. Thus my UK-layout IBM Model M has every international character it's possible to type. I can type à la Français as easily as I can v čestina, tady v Křižíkova. > For my main daily driver I just use a Unicomp PC5250. Like others said, new > keyboards based on the original mechanisms perform so much better. Tried one (belonging to list member Peter Corlett). I find the original Real Thing™ _far_ better than the modern reproductions. I think he will agree with me. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 21:01, ben via cctalk wrote: > Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff, > even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8. https://danluu.com/input-lag/ Summary: no, it's not just you. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/21/18 11:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > Because of my job, I have to think about what the museum needs to collect > at the bottom of the supply bathtub curve, and I get nervous when things > start to come up on the tail side. I should probably expound on that a bit more. I've noticed our collection is pretty weak in IBM and compatible comms gear. I had some documentation to fill in some holes, but that made me think more about 3rd party devices, which are a little easier to document because it isn't full of IBM ASICs. I've been making some calls, you'd think the stuff would still be out there, but after they stop laughing the brokers either say they threw that stuff out decades ago, or want thousands of dollars for it then don't have the documentation. Maybe I'm just calling the wrong places. The one thing I'm really looking for is the AT/Memorex MCS 6542 control unit. I stumbled upon the hardware description looking for something else about two weeks ago, but can't find anyone that still has one. 6541s are easy to find, but they use a proprietary "standard serial interface" which only works with AT terminals.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/20/18 10:05 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: > It's Beanie Babies all over again, people. Give it a year or two and the > keyboard market will likely crash. I don't see it happening, unless someone turns up a warehouse full of the things cheap to drive supply up. All I hear about are guys with warehouses scrapping CRTs, and those are 80's & 90's commodity ASCII terminals. The only terminal keyboards still turning up in volume are Wyse because the rest were junk that got flaky 10+ years ago. Beanie Babies were sold as collectables, and millions were made. CRT terminals aren't collectable. You don't flip them. There are a handful of interest to collectors, like VT100s. Before Hercules, no one cared about CU terminals because there was nothing you could do with them without the knowledge of the care and feeding of IBM big iron. Even twinax was pretty out there. Only 'corestore' ever showed much of anything in that world. So now, all of that is pretty much obsolete and getting thrown out by the warehouse load. Hell, even I ended up with 10 3191 terminals recently because they would have been tossed. Because of my job, I have to think about what the museum needs to collect at the bottom of the supply bathtub curve, and I get nervous when things start to come up on the tail side.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/20/18 8:11 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > I have an old Apple Newton keyboard... would that be useful? It's just a > simple serial protocol with a table that at one > point I write a program that used the xtest extension to allow me to use it > as my main keyboard while in X11 Would > that be helpful / useful here at all? It would be good to get it documented somewhere.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
It's Beanie Babies all over again, people. Give it a year or two and the keyboard market will likely crash. Pick them up on the slide down. I bet most will not be gutted, simply due to the general lack of activity of computer people. Just like we are. -- Will (who paid attention to all those IBM terminals and keyboards years ago when everyone else was ignoring them. No, I will not sell you any.)
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 9:05 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:56 PM Al Kossow via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/20/18 5:16 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >> > I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of arduino projects to create a PC >> > keyboard to each of the classics... >> >> If things continue as they are, people will be forced to do that, or >> create replicas. >> >> In the past, the kb collectors would build adapters for the logic in the >> keyboards, >> so there was some reverse-engineering occurring >> >> http://www.kbdbabel.org/ >> >> but now, the trend is to gut the electronics and replace it, using just >> the key matrix >> >> I've been working a lot with MAME developers doing emulations of >> terminals. A side effect >> of that is documenting the keyboard protocols and key maps for valued and >> not-so-valued but >> rare terminal keyboards like the ones on Qumes. >> > > that's awesome. I've been working to flesh out the final details of the > Rainbow with a gentleman who has more of a knack for that stuff than I... > > It's awesome you've done similar with these keyboards... > I have an old Apple Newton keyboard... would that be useful? It's just a simple serial protocol with a table that at one point I write a program that used the xtest extension to allow me to use it as my main keyboard while in X11 Would that be helpful / useful here at all? Warner
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 7:56 PM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 10/20/18 5:16 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > > I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of arduino projects to create a PC > > keyboard to each of the classics... > > If things continue as they are, people will be forced to do that, or > create replicas. > > In the past, the kb collectors would build adapters for the logic in the > keyboards, > so there was some reverse-engineering occurring > > http://www.kbdbabel.org/ > > but now, the trend is to gut the electronics and replace it, using just > the key matrix > > I've been working a lot with MAME developers doing emulations of > terminals. A side effect > of that is documenting the keyboard protocols and key maps for valued and > not-so-valued but > rare terminal keyboards like the ones on Qumes. > that's awesome. I've been working to flesh out the final details of the Rainbow with a gentleman who has more of a knack for that stuff than I... It's awesome you've done similar with these keyboards... Warner
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/20/18 5:16 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of arduino projects to create a PC > keyboard to each of the classics... If things continue as they are, people will be forced to do that, or create replicas. In the past, the kb collectors would build adapters for the logic in the keyboards, so there was some reverse-engineering occurring http://www.kbdbabel.org/ but now, the trend is to gut the electronics and replace it, using just the key matrix I've been working a lot with MAME developers doing emulations of terminals. A side effect of that is documenting the keyboard protocols and key maps for valued and not-so-valued but rare terminal keyboards like the ones on Qumes.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
I'm surprised there aren't a boatload of arduino projects to create a PC keyboard to each of the classics... Warner On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 6:00 PM Ian Primus via cctalk wrote: > Ugh - this is super frustrating to see. Especially since I have a 3101 > here with no keyboard. And the reason *why* it has no keyboard? It got > bought out from under me. I bought this terminal, complete, on eBay. > It arrives... with no keyboard. I complained to the seller, he > refunded all my money and just said, basically "Sorry, someone gave me > a whole lot of money for the keyboard alone, you can keep the > terminal" Great. So, now I have a useless terminal on my shelf > waiting for me to get extremely lucky and find the missing keyboard. > > What's even worse is this wasn't even the first time this happened to > me. I have an Infoton here that's missing it's keyboard for the exact > same reason. > > Collecting computer terminals has gotten horribly frustrating, and > really, these keyboard scalpers have sucked a lot of the fun out of > the hobby for me. > > -Ian > On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > > separated > > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU > > > > Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder > if > > this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I > sold > > my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest > > to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words > > with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or > the > > manuals. > > > > There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way. > > > > Bill >
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
Ugh - this is super frustrating to see. Especially since I have a 3101 here with no keyboard. And the reason *why* it has no keyboard? It got bought out from under me. I bought this terminal, complete, on eBay. It arrives... with no keyboard. I complained to the seller, he refunded all my money and just said, basically "Sorry, someone gave me a whole lot of money for the keyboard alone, you can keep the terminal" Great. So, now I have a useless terminal on my shelf waiting for me to get extremely lucky and find the missing keyboard. What's even worse is this wasn't even the first time this happened to me. I have an Infoton here that's missing it's keyboard for the exact same reason. Collecting computer terminals has gotten horribly frustrating, and really, these keyboard scalpers have sucked a lot of the fun out of the hobby for me. -Ian On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > separated > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU > > Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if > this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold > my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest > to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words > with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the > manuals. > > There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way. > > Bill
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/20/18 10:41 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Al Kossow > The quality of modern keycaps is poor. > These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. There's something I'm still not quite grasping. I can see two reasons for people liking the old keyboards: - i) Higher quality construction - ii) Connection, through a historial artifact, to an earlier age Am I missing any? I can definitely see the first (I myself find many modern keyboards to be complete crap), but if that's _all_ it is, I'd think there'd be a market for modern production of quality keyboards - not a large market, true, but I'd think it would be large enough to be worth servicing? (Unless the cost to produce such would be so high that there wouldn't be any buyers - but that seems at odd with some of the prices being mentioned.) So maybe people _only_ want keyboards that have both i) and ii)? i) There is certainly a very active market in good quality, current-production keyboards, keyboard kits and keyboard parts. That market is not just being serviced, it's moving past the niche category. The level of ongoing development and the vendors' response to customer input are phenomenal. The level of "discernment" in the higher tiers of keyboard gear reminds me a lot of the high-end audiophile market I'm mostly deaf and my hands are scarred, arthritic, and desensitized and I don't play video games, so I have no useful opinion about either one. ii) My observation, by no means authoritative, is that the folk who used those '80s keyboards in the '80s aren't the ones paying top dollar for them. My grandson dreams of owning a '67 Dodge Charger. A 440cid '68 was my daily driver for a couple of years, and I don't want one at all. Same-same. Doc
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
all this keyboard jewelry reminds me of people ripping keys off old vintage typewriters that had the celluloid tops to make woman's jewelry of very sad.. saw this happening in the places that sold this kid of stuff.. . In a message dated 10/20/2018 9:31:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > On Oct 20, 2018, at 2:03 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk > wrote: > > That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any > enthusiast group, and predators. Including this group, if we're honest. You > want to talk conspicuous consumption? How many on this list, myself included, > have spent a fortune on old computer hardware, and then another fortune > housing it? That’s not consumption. The items involved are not “consumed” - they are not destroyed or used up. Taking a piece of equipment and turning it into a keyboard plus N pounds of scrap is consumption. The equipment is destroyed. > You guys want people to stop scavenging those irreplaceable treasures? Ante > up, pure and simple. Right, because availability of cash is the sole determining factor in a person’s worth. I guess someone should come pick up all this stuff then, I clearly don’t deserve any of it. I only spent ten years plus searching, called in major favors to get it here, and wrote two successful public projects to share the experience with other people - but very little money. What was I thinking? I’m sure whoever is able to shell out $8K from their trust fund to turn 1500 pounds of potentially working machines into a couple el33t h4x0r g4ming keyboards will be far more deserving than a filthy poor like me.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
> On Oct 20, 2018, at 2:03 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk > wrote: > > That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any > enthusiast group, and predators. Including this group, if we're honest. You > want to talk conspicuous consumption? How many on this list, myself > included, have spent a fortune on old computer hardware, and then another > fortune housing it? That’s not consumption. The items involved are not “consumed” - they are not destroyed or used up. Taking a piece of equipment and turning it into a keyboard plus N pounds of scrap is consumption. The equipment is destroyed. > You guys want people to stop scavenging those irreplaceable treasures? Ante > up, pure and simple. Right, because availability of cash is the sole determining factor in a person’s worth. I guess someone should come pick up all this stuff then, I clearly don’t deserve any of it. I only spent ten years plus searching, called in major favors to get it here, and wrote two successful public projects to share the experience with other people - but very little money. What was I thinking? I’m sure whoever is able to shell out $8K from their trust fund to turn 1500 pounds of potentially working machines into a couple el33t h4x0r g4ming keyboards will be far more deserving than a filthy poor like me.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
I am Definitely not a gamer! but my hands are poor at typing and the benifit of hearing the key click helps the accuracy a little.. my xps Dell has pretty loaded games but I have never played one yet use it for video editing and internet. l also like keyboard letters do not wear off of Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Saturday, October 20, 2018 Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 9:42 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Al Kossow > > > The quality of modern keycaps is poor. > > These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. > > There's something I'm still not quite grasping. > > I can see two reasons for people liking the old keyboards: > > - i) Higher quality construction > - ii) Connection, through a historial artifact, to an earlier age > > Am I missing any? > > I can definitely see the first (I myself find many modern keyboards to be > complete crap), but if that's _all_ it is, I'd think there'd be a market > for > modern production of quality keyboards - not a large market, true, but I'd > think it would be large enough to be worth servicing? (Unless the cost to > produce such would be so high that there wouldn't be any buyers - but that > seems at odd with some of the prices being mentioned.) > > So maybe people _only_ want keyboards that have both i) and ii)? > I recently got a decent gamers keyboard for $60. Nnice rocker switches. Loud as hell, like the old model M battleships. Works great and has the same feel as the old ones. Even fing glows in the dark. Has just the right touch. No clue why you'd need a retro one to get the retro feel. So there's something else. Some people are judgemental about it, others are less judgmental. It's the separation from original context that I object to. Warner >
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
> From: Doc Shipley > You guys want people to stop scavenging those irreplaceable treasures? > Ante up, pure and simple. That works for keeping stuff out of the hands of scrappers (who are, after all, business-people) - but not for fetishists who will pay totally mind-blowing sums for them. Sorry, I'm not paying $5K for _any_ keyboard. You can buy (for example) a complete PDP-11/70 for that much money. > In the end, that system is worth twice as much as desoldered parts as > the best offer I got. But will _all_ of the constituent parts sell, or just some of them - the rest being destined to sit on a shelf, un-sold, until they are pitched? There's a similar debate in other areas of collection - e.g. antique Japanese woodblock-printed books. One can usually make more money by taking them apart, and selling them a page at a time, as opposed to selling them as complete books. (At least all the pages do tend to sell.) Some people consider this vandalism - destroying a 200-year old artifact to maximize $$. I can't say they're wrong... Noel
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 9:42 AM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > From: Al Kossow > > > The quality of modern keycaps is poor. > > These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. > > There's something I'm still not quite grasping. > > I can see two reasons for people liking the old keyboards: > > - i) Higher quality construction > - ii) Connection, through a historial artifact, to an earlier age > > Am I missing any? > > I can definitely see the first (I myself find many modern keyboards to be > complete crap), but if that's _all_ it is, I'd think there'd be a market > for > modern production of quality keyboards - not a large market, true, but I'd > think it would be large enough to be worth servicing? (Unless the cost to > produce such would be so high that there wouldn't be any buyers - but that > seems at odd with some of the prices being mentioned.) > > So maybe people _only_ want keyboards that have both i) and ii)? > I recently got a decent gamers keyboard for $60. Nnice rocker switches. Loud as hell, like the old model M battleships. Works great and has the same feel as the old ones. Even fing glows in the dark. Has just the right touch. No clue why you'd need a retro one to get the retro feel. So there's something else. Some people are judgemental about it, others are less judgmental. It's the separation from original context that I object to. Warner >
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
> From: Al Kossow > The quality of modern keycaps is poor. > These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. There's something I'm still not quite grasping. I can see two reasons for people liking the old keyboards: - i) Higher quality construction - ii) Connection, through a historial artifact, to an earlier age Am I missing any? I can definitely see the first (I myself find many modern keyboards to be complete crap), but if that's _all_ it is, I'd think there'd be a market for modern production of quality keyboards - not a large market, true, but I'd think it would be large enough to be worth servicing? (Unless the cost to produce such would be so high that there wouldn't be any buyers - but that seems at odd with some of the prices being mentioned.) So maybe people _only_ want keyboards that have both i) and ii)? Noel
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 12:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and should be treated as such. I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space Cadet” keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most of the “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est” thing last I heard. I think it’s just conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you’ve got the dosh to waste things other people must work hard for a chance to get. That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any enthusiast group, and predators. Including this group, if we're honest. You want to talk conspicuous consumption? How many on this list, myself included, have spent a fortune on old computer hardware, and then another fortune housing it? I'm one of those "fetishists" - I do love me a nice clackety keyboard. And not for nothing, but my experience with '80s- and '90s-era mechanical keyboards is precisely why I do. I build my keyboards from new parts, and I think paying $5/switch for parts from the old Apple Extended Keyboard II is just silly, but I have a hard time blaming anybody for pursuing what's important to them. You guys want people to stop scavenging those irreplaceable treasures? Ante up, pure and simple. I've seen the same thing over and over in the vintage computer circles - guys wailing and wringing their hands about classic machines going to keyboard scavengers, or gold recovery, or whatever the Demon du Jour happens to be. And then they won't pay the price of shipping to keep the thing out of the scrap pile. I have a 5140 Convertible that I tried to sell awhile back in the vcfed community. I got a lot of lowball offers and a lot of rants veiled as warnings about those godless scavengers. From the same cheapskates of course. In the end, that system is worth twice as much as desoldered parts as the best offer I got. Survey sez all that wailing and teeth-gnashing is bullshit.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
So, I have built a USB adapter for my 5150’s keyboard. The experience is actually quite bad, as stated earlier. The main reason why I still use it is because I took it with me from Belgium - it’s a French keyboard, and having access to all the special characters makes typing in eg. French, German or Spanish so much easier in the odd cases I have to. For my main daily driver I just use a Unicomp PC5250. Like others said, new keyboards based on the original mechanisms perform so much better. I spend a lot of my work in 5250 sessions, and I also play MMOs, so having a keyboard which doesn’t have to do almost-matching translations make sense. Some people just have too much money. On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 17:20, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT? The USB adapters for that > are a > > dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real PS/2 to USB, not the faux > > ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB). > > > > Warner > > > > The 3101 is not PS/2, pre-dates the IBM PC. If someone made an adapter > it'd be unique to this class of terminal. May be like a DisplayWriter > perhaps. >
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 2018-10-19 3:15 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU Note the price $2000 so far. Woof! I have a complete, working IBM 3101 terminal (got it from a former co-worker who used to use it to work from home at CompuServe) and it's tempting to sell just the keyboard. -ethan Even though the feel of the "beam-spring" keyboards is nice and they make a pleasant sound they are not the most reliable keyboard. Since they are capacitive keyboards they are very sensitive to contamination, and one of the flat metal springs in the key module flexes back and forth each time the key is depressed which leads to it fatiguing and breaking. I am sure the only source of replacement key modules now would be to take them from another keyboard. When I was servicing a lot of terminals that used that keyboard technology I used to keep half a dozen in my trunk all the time. The design as used in the original PC keyboard was mechanically more durable but since it was still a capacitive keyboard, it was still very sensitive to contamination. Paul.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
Anybody else notice that all the buyers for that keyboard on ebay are under 10 feedback? The only Digital keyboards I have are a pair of LK411-AA that go with my VT-525's. The recycler kept a stack of VT-525s for a while but the stack of LK411 that went with them got their cords cut and chucked into the plastic pile the day after they arrived (luckily I snagged a pair before then). I have a small hoard of IBM model M's purchased from a recycler years ago for a few bucks each. I use one on my main rig (has PS/2 adapter connected to a Belkin SOHO 4 port KVM), same setup in the basement. I would dig though the incoming pallets looking for the IBM keyboards and passing on the Unicomp ones. Used to use a Northgate Omnikey 102 but the layout difference between the Model M (which I used in multiple places) made me retire it. My other Northgate is connected to an Amiga 2000. My first use of a terminal keyboard was in college (IBM terminals connected to a mainframe for Fortran programming) and I loved those keyboards. They are kind of hard to find locally (I do have an IBM 1390702 missing a PF keycap and its cable plus a small chunk on plastic in the rear) and a shitty Unicomp model DCI0952 that is complete with a PS/2 cable. I think you need to pay a decent amount of money for a good clicky USB keyboard these days (most like a gamer style keyboard). Everything else is kind of mushy cheap crap. So I can see somebody who does a lot of typing wanting a vintage keyboard with a good feel to it. Since I have enough Model M's to last a lifetime I don't see paying $150+ for a new keyboard. Not that many people need a terminal these days, so the terminal either gets trashed or at least somebody saves the keyboard. I know collectors will bitch about that but what can you do? A $1000 keyboard will make a scrappers year, same keyboard connected to a CRT screen might get $100 and be a pain to ship. -Original Message- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:54 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and should be treated as such. I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space Cadet” keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most of the “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est” thing last I heard. I think it’s just conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you’ve got the dosh to waste things other people must work hard for a chance to get. So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those old keyboards whether they worked or not? All I have now are a lot of DEC keyboards/ bill --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
i need decmate 2 colored keyboard for wordprocessing wps8 thanks ed In a message dated 10/19/2018 1:55:05 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: >> On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting >> separated > > Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming > qualities, and should be treated as such. > > I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had > achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space Cadet” > keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed to be and > everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in keyboard > fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 for even > non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most of the > “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and > control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being > where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est” thing last I > heard. I think it’s just conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you’ve > got the dosh to waste things other people must work hard for a chance to get. > So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those old keyboards whether they worked or not? All I have now are a lot of DEC keyboards/ bill
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: >> On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting >> separated > > Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming > qualities, and should be treated as such. > > I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had > achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space Cadet” > keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed to be and > everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in keyboard > fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 for even > non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most of the > “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and > control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being > where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est” thing last I > heard. I think it’s just conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you’ve > got the dosh to waste things other people must work hard for a chance to get. > So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those old keyboards whether they worked or not? All I have now are a lot of DEC keyboards/ bill
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 11:14 AM, allison via cctalk wrote: > On 10/19/2018 01:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Me I had M keyboards in the day, thought they sucked! Vt100 and VT220 > early version > were my measure. None of them made me type better! I will confess to a fondness for my old NCR Cherry-switch equipped keyboards. Nice layout, but eventually the need for F11 and F12 keys drove me back to the Model Ms. (The NCR has F-keys up to 30 with F1-F10 where god intended, along the left side, but the F11-F30 just duplicate the F1-f10 with Shift and Control added.). One of these days I'll pull one out and hack the EPROMs in it to give me real F11 and F12. Double-shot keys there also. I wonder if double-shot are all that, really. I've got several dye-sub keyboards and they don't seem to show much wear on the keys. But then, I type like I play the piano--fingers don't really touch the keys until one gets pressed. --Chuck
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
the ps2 to usb adapters do not work well with my dell xps go fast computer! That would explain all the extra spaces... On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, ben via cctalk wrote: I wonder how many letters got deleated while the mail program's input got lost as the fast computer popup windows kept popping up. Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff, even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8. Computer Software Boyle's Law: extraneous actions, features, ads, etc. will expand to fill all available space and speed resources. For example: Operating system distribution requires a double layer DVD, instead of a single sided 5.25" floppy. When you want to type a shopping list, is it quicker on the new machine? (How long from power cycle on the amazingly fast Dell XPS before Office gives you a blank document screen?) Does a shopping list need to have PICTURES of eggs? 10 years ago, at the college, a memo announcing a room or time change for a meeting was done on Word, printed in color, scanned, and attached to an email. (I'm not sure WHY, but how else to get a horizontal rule that was offset by a couple of pixels from one end to the other?) I wonder whether they have now switched from the same half dozen words now being done with video and sound? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/2018 12:19 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: the ps2 to usb adapters do not work well with my dell xps go fast computer! That would explain all the extra spaces... - Josh I wonder how many letters got deleated while the mail program's input got lost as the fast computer popup windows kept popping up. Is just me, but is keyboad input geting slower and slower on web stuff, even the old 110 buad tty gave better response running under a PDP/8.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
Woof! I have a complete, working IBM 3101 terminal (got it from a former co-worker who used to use it to work from home at CompuServe) and it's tempting to sell just the keyboard. -ethan Just use an arduino to make an adapter so you can use a USB keyboard with the 3101 terminal. If you used a clicky non-poured keycap RGB one you might be able to make it change colors when it beeps. -- : Ethan O'Toole
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > the ps2 to usb adapters do not work well with my dell xps > go fast computer! > That would explain all the extra spaces... - Josh
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > separated > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU > > Note the price $2000 so far. Woof! I have a complete, working IBM 3101 terminal (got it from a former co-worker who used to use it to work from home at CompuServe) and it's tempting to sell just the keyboard. -ethan
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/2018 01:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 10/19/18 9:55 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> well i have some clicky keyboards and yea love the feedback clak >> when I type but the usual off the rack frys usb thing is >> problematic > I've got a bunch of Model Ms scattered around here. I remember when > Surplus Software in Portland was selling the new surplus ones for > something like $15 each. > > Personally, having learned to touch-type on a manual typewriter, I > prefer the clickety sound. IBM Wheelwriter typewriters used to drive me > nuts due to the out-of-sync sound of the type hammer and the keypress. > > Those who learned to touch-type in the post-Selectric era probably don't > have the problem. > > So, at least I have an excuse. The model Ms work fine for me--I use one > of the PCPlay-based USB keyboard+mouse adapters. But then, I'm not a > gamer... > > --Chuck > > Me I had M keyboards in the day, thought they sucked! Vt100 and VT220 early version were my measure. None of them made me type better! For the last decade plus I've used the aluminum large and small USB keyboard from Apple on the various Linux boxes. My only gripe is they are not double shot keys so the letters wear off after about 5-6 years. Why did I buy it? Reliable, coffee resistant, the only thing that counts. As to keyboard fetish fans... Seriously? If I'd do anything I want that brass and wood steampunk piece of art like used in Werehouse 13, least then I feel I got something unusual and attractive. Allison
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 9:55 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > well i have some clicky keyboards and yea love the feedback clak > when I type but the usual off the rack frys usb thing is problematic I've got a bunch of Model Ms scattered around here. I remember when Surplus Software in Portland was selling the new surplus ones for something like $15 each. Personally, having learned to touch-type on a manual typewriter, I prefer the clickety sound. IBM Wheelwriter typewriters used to drive me nuts due to the out-of-sync sound of the type hammer and the keypress. Those who learned to touch-type in the post-Selectric era probably don't have the problem. So, at least I have an excuse. The model Ms work fine for me--I use one of the PCPlay-based USB keyboard+mouse adapters. But then, I'm not a gamer... --Chuck
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
> On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > separated Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and should be treated as such. I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space Cadet” keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most of the “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est” thing last I heard. I think it’s just conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you’ve got the dosh to waste things other people must work hard for a chance to get.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
the ps2 to usb adapters do not work well with my dell xps go fast computer! In a message dated 10/19/2018 9:20:07 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > > > > > They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT? The USB adapters for that are a > dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real PS/2 to USB, not the faux > ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB). > > Warner > The 3101 is not PS/2, pre-dates the IBM PC. If someone made an adapter it'd be unique to this class of terminal. May be like a DisplayWriter perhaps.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
well i have some clicky keyboards and yea love the feedback clak when I type but the usual off the rack frys usb thing is problematic so by thinner bean it clacks but has a lighter motion? then I have this ibm clacky keyboard with several rows of function keys... as i remember 2 or 3 rows? wonder what the hell it was used for? Gave my wife and Envey hp all in one body I got and put a keyboard with it that had decals on the keys... she was not happy... seems all keys wear off now In a message dated 10/19/2018 9:45:13 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 10/19/18 8:41 AM, js--- via cctalk wrote: > Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the terminal is right there? Keyboard collectors. https://deskthority.net/ etc. Any 70's or 80's mechanical switch or hall-effect keyboard is going for big bucks now. This has been discussed here and on the VCF forum before. I am in the process of trying to draw out the schematics for the IBM Displaywriter, and it is impossible to find a 'reasonably priced' (as in less than $300 dollar) keyboard for the system I've pieced together. There are people making USB adapters for most of the old IBM mechanical keyboards now. I'm also working on documenting IBM CU 'Control Unit' (coax..) Terminals You can find terminals, but not keyboards.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
The quality of modern keycaps is poor. These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. If you do find modern double-shots, the fonts they use are crap. The kb I'm typing on cost me about $300 after having to buy replacement caps for almost the same price as the kb was. I had some Model M keyboards I got for free. Gave them away to kids at our hackerspace in Norfolk because I hated the feel of typing on them. They were all giddy. You can get the keyboard that has no print on the keycaps at all. Seems ideal! -- : Ethan O'Toole
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 9:50 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > leave the keyboard connected to whatever it originally came with. Very funny... They don't give a fsck about old junk, they just want the l33t kb
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: i used an adapter to usb?? and?? it?? would?? glitch?? and lock?? sometimes... ed# Why don't the fancy "Gamer" computers have a REAL keyboard port? Or, just leave the keyboard connected to whatever it originally came with. Place the "gamer" 48" monitor on top of that machine. Run some trivial software on that to output the keyboard data through the serial port, cabled down under the table to a Y2K Dell or generic dumpster computer, and output USB from that to the "gamer" computer, also under the table.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 9:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk wrote: > I don't get it. You can buy off the shelf clicky keyboards with RGB for $150. The quality of modern keycaps is poor. These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. If you do find modern double-shots, the fonts they use are crap. The kb I'm typing on cost me about $300 after having to buy replacement caps for almost the same price as the kb was.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 8:41 AM, js--- via cctalk wrote: > Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the terminal is right there? Keyboard collectors. https://deskthority.net/ etc. Any 70's or 80's mechanical switch or hall-effect keyboard is going for big bucks now. This has been discussed here and on the VCF forum before. I am in the process of trying to draw out the schematics for the IBM Displaywriter, and it is impossible to find a 'reasonably priced' (as in less than $300 dollar) keyboard for the system I've pieced together. There are people making USB adapters for most of the old IBM mechanical keyboards now. I'm also working on documenting IBM CU 'Control Unit' (coax..) Terminals You can find terminals, but not keyboards.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
Hi Ed, This particular keyboard uses beam spring key switches. These are considered ultra luxury old-school key switches with really good key caps. IBM spared no expense. The IBM 3101 is the thinnest beam spring keyboard and looks closest to the IBM Model M (sort of) in terms of keys. While the key caps don't match up, someone created a converter that makes these keyboards work via USB (replacing the controller board) which also maps out easily to a usable PC keyboard. It is likely to go higher. I have one of these keyboards that is in serious need of restoration but when I restore it I will acquire a 3101 terminal for it to mate with (as I have done with other keyboards and terminals). Hope this helps. Santo On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:15 PM ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > OK I am sorry I do not understand why the keyboard went this high? > > Please... Please... someone explain? >
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:14:56PM -0400, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > OK I am sorry I do not understand why the keyboard went this high? > > ... > > cctalk wrote: > > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > > separated > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU Looks like they are being cut up in jewellery https://www.ebay.com/p/IBM-Beamspring-Keychain-Keyboard-Key-5251-3101-3278-3279-5120-Displaywriter/857868178 Diane -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://artemis.db.net/~db
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 2018-10-19 1:19 p.m., Ethan via cctalk wrote: >> OK I am sorry I do not understand why the keyboard went this high? >> Please... Please... someone explain? >> Ed# > > Race for the loudest keyboard. Bragging rights of the rare? > > An Adlib card sold for $3100 a year ago or so. Friends were suspicious > that people were driving up the price of their own posession to try to > mark to market some of the retro stuff higher. Basically, create the > same speculation that housing has gone through recently like the > cryptocurrency people do. > > I don't get it. You can buy off the shelf clicky keyboards with RGB for > $150. > Or any dumpster, if you're a freak who doesn't need an RGB illuminated keyboard. > -- > : Ethan O'Toole > >
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
> > > > > > They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT? The USB adapters for that are a > dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real PS/2 to USB, not the faux > ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB). > > Warner > The 3101 is not PS/2, pre-dates the IBM PC. If someone made an adapter it'd be unique to this class of terminal. May be like a DisplayWriter perhaps.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
OK I am sorry I do not understand why the keyboard went this high? Please... Please... someone explain? Ed# Race for the loudest keyboard. Bragging rights of the rare? An Adlib card sold for $3100 a year ago or so. Friends were suspicious that people were driving up the price of their own posession to try to mark to market some of the retro stuff higher. Basically, create the same speculation that housing has gone through recently like the cryptocurrency people do. I don't get it. You can buy off the shelf clicky keyboards with RGB for $150. -- : Ethan O'Toole
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated I sold a working luggable computer. The keys were a bit clicky but I put on the auction to try to thwart the keyboard collectors. I shipped it working, buyer claimed it wasn't working when arrived. Ended up having to refund on it. Ate $110 in shipping. I'm super paranoid that the buyer was looking for certain keyboard and just fried it to claim insurance. It definitely squashed any enthusiasm about selling on eBay, outside of all the work done to pack and ship and have some 14% of the sale price taken by eBay/PayPal. - Ethan
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
OK I am sorry I do not understand why the keyboard went this high? Please... Please... someone explain? Ed# In a message dated 10/19/2018 8:40:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > separated > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU > > Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if > this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold > my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest > to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words > with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the > manuals. > > There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way. > > Bill B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the terminal is right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so hugely in demand? - J.
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:59 AM John Foust via cctalk wrote: > At 10:41 AM 10/19/2018, js--- via cctalk wrote: > >B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the > terminal is right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so > hugely in demand? > > My son is a fancy Silicon Valley twenty-something programmer, and > all he wanted for Christmas last year was one of my old IBM M series > keyboards. > > Collectible and usable; no doubt someone sells an adapter to USB. > They are just PS/2 keyboards, right? Or AT? The USB adapters for that are a dime a dozen. I have 4 in my basement (the real PS/2 to USB, not the faux ones that allowed dual-mode mice to connect to USB). Warner
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
i used an adapter to usb and it would glitch and lock sometimes... ed# In a message dated 10/19/2018 8:59:25 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: At 10:41 AM 10/19/2018, js--- via cctalk wrote: >B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the terminal is >right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so hugely in demand? My son is a fancy Silicon Valley twenty-something programmer, and all he wanted for Christmas last year was one of my old IBM M series keyboards. Collectible and usable; no doubt someone sells an adapter to USB. - John
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
At 10:41 AM 10/19/2018, js--- via cctalk wrote: >B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the terminal is >right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so hugely in demand? My son is a fancy Silicon Valley twenty-something programmer, and all he wanted for Christmas last year was one of my old IBM M series keyboards. Collectible and usable; no doubt someone sells an adapter to USB. - John
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:40 AM js--- via cctalk wrote: > On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via > cctalk wrote: > > Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting > > separated > > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU > > > > Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder > if > > this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I > sold > > my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest > > to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words > > with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or > the > > manuals. > > > > There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way. > > > > Bill > > B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard > being sold alone, when the terminal is > right there? > > And how come this particular keyboard is > so hugely in demand? > > - J. > I sold the entire Series/1 system for $1000 many years ago, and the guy only wanted the terminal. The rest could be discarded as far as the buyer cared. This is not a new thing I guess. Probably this is not the same person selling now that bought my terminal then, now that I see the location, but you never know. I do have a few orphaned keyboards from who knows when, spares and so on, but not as a result of intentionally selling just the terminal :-) b
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/2018 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the manuals. There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way. Bill B, I don't get it. Why is the keyboard being sold alone, when the terminal is right there? And how come this particular keyboard is so hugely in demand? - J.
Selling keyboards without the terminal
Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-3101-beam-spring-keyboard-purchased-new-in-1982/123422383512?hash=item1cbc8c1d98:g:sCkAAOSwfbhbwQvU Note the price $2000 so far. How could one blame the seller. I wonder if this is the terminal I sold to a buyer in California years ago when I sold my Series/1 computer. All he wanted was the terminal, I donated the rest to what was the MARCH museum. At the time I remember having a few words with the buyer who would not also take the Series/1 system (2 racks) or the manuals. There is a naked terminal up for grabs if you're out his way. Bill
