Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 2017-11-28 7:11 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: On 2017-Nov-28, at 2:54 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Tue, 28 Nov 2017, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: I couldn't find the ebay listing for the NCR modem for some reason, either using the number or by searching by keywords. https://www.ebay.com/itm/132411929563 That works . . . forgot about composing the URL directly from the item number. Still won't show up with regular searches on ebay.com , although these do with "ncr acoustic": https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ACOUSTIC-REVIVE-RTP-4-absolute-Power-supply-box-outlet-From-JP-with-tracking/252956939311?hash=item3ae568942f:g:YAgAAOSwJH1ZJosl Latest audiophool scam. Wow and only $2512.99 what a deal!
Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 2017-Nov-28, at 2:54 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 28 Nov 2017, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: >> I couldn't find the ebay listing for the NCR modem for some reason, either >> using the number or by searching by keywords. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/132411929563 That works . . . forgot about composing the URL directly from the item number. Still won't show up with regular searches on ebay.com , although these do with "ncr acoustic": https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ACOUSTIC-REVIVE-RTP-4-absolute-Power-supply-box-outlet-From-JP-with-tracking/252956939311?hash=item3ae568942f:g:YAgAAOSwJH1ZJosl Latest audiophool scam.
Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > Thanks for the additional datapoint. > It does suggest Model A production may likely have started in 1968. > Actual date codes in mine were 6908 to 7008. > The larger caps are also a good place to look for date codes. > > I did the schematic, if you have an interest. > Eventually I'll get a little web article up for the model. > > For the record, I'm not sure what model I have as the deteriorated foam from the top cover fell and stuck to the Livermore label between the two cups and clean up wiped off most of the info. Mine has a Motorola MC836P IC on the middle board that has a date code of 7206.
Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 2017-Nov-27, at 5:25 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: > On 11/27/2017 2:26 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? >> >> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: >>> Were those the Livermore Data Systems modems in a wood box you were selling? >>> Did you have anything to ascertain the 1964 date for LDS, or were you >>> getting that date from the stuff on the web? >> . . . >>> Someone in some comments suggests LDS wasn't building these until 1968, >>> which strikes me as more plausible. >> >> Thank you! >> >> That is why I put a question mark after 1964. >> I was basing it on nothing more than verbal comment by the guy that I got >> them from. And, while I had them, I hadn't had any reason to particularly >> care. >> >> 1968 does, indeed, seem more plausible. >> >> It still serves to illustrate that 1971 is NOT too early for that NCR. >> >> -- >> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com >> > I can add another data point to the discussion: > > My LDS Model A with SN 0491 has two TI transistors both with data code "6914" > > And for what it's worth, if you have one and have never opened it up, go do > so right now!The three small circuit boards have a 3"x4" piece of the > infamous black foam to pad the cards when inserted in the case. Of course > the foam is mostly gone now except for where it wraps around the cards and > corrodes the components that it touches! Thanks for the additional datapoint. It does suggest Model A production may likely have started in 1968. Actual date codes in mine were 6908 to 7008. The larger caps are also a good place to look for date codes. I did the schematic, if you have an interest. Eventually I'll get a little web article up for the model. I couldn't find the ebay listing for the NCR modem for some reason, either using the number or by searching by keywords.
Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 11/27/2017 2:26 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Were those the Livermore Data Systems modems in a wood box you were selling? Did you have anything to ascertain the 1964 date for LDS, or were you getting that date from the stuff on the web? . . . Someone in some comments suggests LDS wasn't building these until 1968, which strikes me as more plausible. Thank you! That is why I put a question mark after 1964. I was basing it on nothing more than verbal comment by the guy that I got them from. And, while I had them, I hadn't had any reason to particularly care. 1968 does, indeed, seem more plausible. It still serves to illustrate that 1971 is NOT too early for that NCR. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com I can add another data point to the discussion: My LDS Model A with SN 0491 has two TI transistors both with data code "6914" And for what it's worth, if you have one and have never opened it up, go do so right now! The three small circuit boards have a 3"x4" piece of the infamous black foam to pad the cards when inserted in the case. Of course the foam is mostly gone now except for where it wraps around the cards and corrodes the components that it touches! Steve
Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 11/27/2017 2:26 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Were those the Livermore Data Systems modems in a wood box you were selling? Did you have anything to ascertain the 1964 date for LDS, or were you getting that date from the stuff on the web? . . . Someone in some comments suggests LDS wasn't building these until 1968, which strikes me as more plausible. Thank you! That is why I put a question mark after 1964. I was basing it on nothing more than verbal comment by the guy that I got them from. And, while I had them, I hadn't had any reason to particularly care. 1968 does, indeed, seem more plausible. It still serves to illustrate that 1971 is NOT too early for that NCR. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Were those the Livermore Data Systems modems in a wood box you were selling? Did you have anything to ascertain the 1964 date for LDS, or were you getting that date from the stuff on the web? . . . Someone in some comments suggests LDS wasn't building these until 1968, which strikes me as more plausible. Thank you! That is why I put a question mark after 1964. I was basing it on nothing more than verbal comment by the guy that I got them from. And, while I had them, I hadn't had any reason to particularly care. 1968 does, indeed, seem more plausible. It still serves to illustrate that 1971 is NOT too early for that NCR. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Livermore Data Systems / was Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 2017-Nov-26, at 2:38 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, couryho...@aol.com wrote: >> does the 71 sate seem early? > > No, a 1971 date does not seem too early. > > The price seems steep, even for a "relatively" early modem. > > Bell 103 (300bps) dates from 1962. > The Bell 101 (110 baud) was 1958. > > SCROTUS "Carterfone" was 1968 (ruling permitting direct connect) > > Bell 212A (1200bps) came out in 1976. > > The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? > ... Were those the Livermore Data Systems modems in a wood box you were selling? Did you have anything to ascertain the 1964 date for LDS, or were you getting that date from the stuff on the web? There's stuff reffed all over the web and youtube of some guy stating the LDS Model A (in the dovetailed wood box) as 1964 and maybe 1963, his unit is serial # 279. http://www.phreakmonkey.com/2009/05/1964-livermore-data-systems-model-modem_31.html etc. He seems to be basing the claim on an LDS Model B unit (once at UCDavis, now at CHM) http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102630200 which claims circa 1965, and 'thus the model A should be at least a year earlier'. I have an LDS Model A, serial # 858, the dates codes on the components are 1969 to 1970. I'm a little skeptical the model was being made as early as 1964. I wish the guy would, or knew to, simply open the unit and look at the date codes rather than guessing. Someone in some comments suggests LDS wasn't building these until 1968, which strikes me as more plausible.
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 11/27/2017 11:15 AM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote: > > > Back in those days you could not connect anything directly to the > telephone > > lines -- you had to use the telco-supplied DAA (kaching!) or an acoustic > > coupler. I don't know if this modem can be connected directly to a > phone > > line without a DAA. > > > > I think the asking price is totally unrealistic unless you are a rabid > > collector of NCR gear. > > This particular unit seems to have a Mickey-mouse type of > coupler--receiver and transmitter connected by a cord. I never did > figure out how one was supposed to use this with, say, a Trimline phone. > I guess the answer was "you don't"). > You don't. Acoustic Coupled modems were always the standard handset or nothing. Warner
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 11/27/2017 11:15 AM, Alan Frisbie via cctalk wrote: > Back in those days you could not connect anything directly to the telephone > lines -- you had to use the telco-supplied DAA (kaching!) or an acoustic > coupler. I don't know if this modem can be connected directly to a phone > line without a DAA. > > I think the asking price is totally unrealistic unless you are a rabid > collector of NCR gear. This particular unit seems to have a Mickey-mouse type of coupler--receiver and transmitter connected by a cord. I never did figure out how one was supposed to use this with, say, a Trimline phone. I guess the answer was "you don't"). We've come a long way since the Carterfone decision. I do recall agonizing about the rental (you couldn't buy one from Ma Bell) charge for a DAA. The local PacBell office also wanted to charge for a "business" line if such an item was installed--much higher monthly charge than a residential line. I suppose that DAA's are still around for connection of non-licensed gear to landlines. Those should rapidly be disappearing, with the decline of the copper telco connection. --Chuck
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
OK! Shades of the crown answering machine we have in the museum with the handset lifter! Yea the price is defiantly a barrier on this except for Paul Allen I suppose. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 11/27/2017 12:16:16 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: couryho...@aol.com wrote: > what is this NCR modem? what did it go to? > > NEW Vintage 1971 NCR Acoustic Coupler Modem, NOS, Factory Boxed, C260-400 > / F01 132411929563 on the bay It is a Bell 103A compatible modem (110 or 300 baud) used with the NCR 260 series of thermal printing terminals. The 260 came in several variants: -1 (receive only), -2 (keyboard send/receive), -6 (Automatic (cassette tape) send/receive). I worked with them at NCR in 1973 and 74. I still have the manuals, and just a few days ago scanned them for Bitsavers. If you need a copy I can send you the raw TIFF files (one per page). Both the -400 and -500 were EIA I/O to the terminal. The C260-400 connected to a Bell System DAA (Data Access Arrangement), while the C260-500 was an acoustic coupler. The acoustic coupler had a solenoid that would would automatically raise and lower the handset on the telephone! Back in those days you could not connect anything directly to the telephone lines -- you had to use the telco-supplied DAA (kaching!) or an acoustic coupler. I don't know if this modem can be connected directly to a phone line without a DAA. I think the asking price is totally unrealistic unless you are a rabid collector of NCR gear. Alan Frisbie
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
couryho...@aol.com wrote: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to? NEW Vintage 1971 NCR Acoustic Coupler Modem, NOS, Factory Boxed, C260-400 / F01 132411929563 on the bay It is a Bell 103A compatible modem (110 or 300 baud) used with the NCR 260 series of thermal printing terminals. The 260 came in several variants: -1 (receive only), -2 (keyboard send/receive), -6 (Automatic (cassette tape) send/receive). I worked with them at NCR in 1973 and 74. I still have the manuals, and just a few days ago scanned them for Bitsavers. If you need a copy I can send you the raw TIFF files (one per page). Both the -400 and -500 were EIA I/O to the terminal. The C260-400 connected to a Bell System DAA (Data Access Arrangement), while the C260-500 was an acoustic coupler. The acoustic coupler had a solenoid that would would automatically raise and lower the handset on the telephone! Back in those days you could not connect anything directly to the telephone lines -- you had to use the telco-supplied DAA (kaching!) or an acoustic coupler. I don't know if this modem can be connected directly to a phone line without a DAA. I think the asking price is totally unrealistic unless you are a rabid collector of NCR gear. Alan Frisbie
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
thanks for dates. yes that all makes sense. some how my mind slipped a decade. I a looking for a GE Diginet tdm-114 acoustic coupler. 2 reasons, GE computer related but also my first acoustic coupler I had with an ASR-35 teletype I am also looking for the top mental plate that covers an ASR-35 punch also. ( drop me a line off list if you have either you want to sell/trade/?) thanks ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 11/26/2017 3:38:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > does the 71 sate seem early? No, a 1971 date does not seem too early. The price seems steep, even for a "relatively" early modem. Bell 103 (300bps) dates from 1962. The Bell 101 (110 baud) was 1958. SCROTUS "Carterfone" was 1968 (ruling permitting direct connect) Bell 212A (1200bps) came out in 1976. The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? 1970-1972, when I was working at Goddard Space Flight Center (Bldg 26, "National Space Sciences Data Center"), we used a time-sharing system for APL. APL type ball on Selectric terminal. Yes, 1971 is prior to most mass-marketed "personal computers" (1978?: Apple, PET, TRS80). But there were teminals.
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
does the 71 sate seem early? On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Looking at the modem, perhaps a little too early, judging from its size. Patent date perhaps? 1971 is the copyright date on the "Basic Concepts Manual" with it.
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, couryho...@aol.com wrote: does the 71 sate seem early? No, a 1971 date does not seem too early. The price seems steep, even for a "relatively" early modem. Bell 103 (300bps) dates from 1962. The Bell 101 (110 baud) was 1958. SCROTUS "Carterfone" was 1968 (ruling permitting direct connect) Bell 212A (1200bps) came out in 1976. The Livermore Data Systems modems that I sold off were from about 1964? 1970-1972, when I was working at Goddard Space Flight Center (Bldg 26, "National Space Sciences Data Center"), we used a time-sharing system for APL. APL type ball on Selectric terminal. Yes, 1971 is prior to most mass-marketed "personal computers" (1978?: Apple, PET, TRS80). But there were teminals.
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On 11/26/2017 02:09 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote: > does the 71 sate seem early? Looking at the modem, perhaps a little too early, judging from its size. Patent date perhaps? But 300 baud acoustic coupler modems date into the 1960s. --Chuck
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
does the 71 sate seem early? In a message dated 11/26/2017 2:38:17 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: The NCR 260 (first part of the part number) was a KSR portable thermal printing terminal. Somewhat similar to the Silent 700. But, the NCR 260 had an integrated modem with acoustic coupler
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
The NCR 260 (first part of the part number) was a KSR portable thermal printing terminal. Somewhat similar to the Silent 700. But, the NCR 260 had an integrated modem with acoustic coupler
Re: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, Ed via cctalk wrote: what is this NCR modem? what did it go to? NEW Vintage 1971 NCR Acoustic Coupler Modem, NOS, Factory Boxed, C260-400 / F01 132411929563 on the bay not mine etc etc etc "What did it go to?" It connected a terminal, or computer in DTE mode, to the phone line. It looks like a fairly ordinary modem for its time. The acoustic coupler connected to the box, and the terminal/Computer-DTE connected to the DB25. It might be Bell 103 compatible, but in those days, not necessarily. The other cable looks like direct connect to phone line, without acoustic coupling. (cf. Carterfone V Western Electric 1968?) No idea what the extra plug (loopback?) was for. A few years later, copanies such as Anderson-Jacobson and Livermore Data Systems stared making more compact modems with acoustic coupler on the same box.
what is this NCR modem? what did it go to?
what is this NCR modem? what did it go to? NEW Vintage 1971 NCR Acoustic Coupler Modem, NOS, Factory Boxed, C260-400 / F01 132411929563 on the bay not mine etc etc etc ed#
