Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 02:19:41PM -0700, Yeechang Lee via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> Longstanding tradition in the British computers market.

> "*New Scientist* stated in 1977 that 'the price of an American kit in dollars
> rapidly translates into the same figure in pounds sterling by the time it has
> reached the shores of Britain'."
> —

It's better now, though. Price differences can be explained by delivery costs,
import duties, and VAT/sales tax. And in the case of 1977, middlemen who
exploit the difficulty in importing stuff oneself.

The USA is some sort of gravity well when it comes to postage. It's cheap-ish
to send stuff to it, but unreasonably expensive to send stuff from there. So
for a product actually made in the USA, USPS, UPS, etc all conspire to ratchet
the price up. Now that this stuff is mostly made in China, postage is mostly
independent of destination.

(I observe a similar but smaller effect for stuff crossing the North Sea, which
is also where where Royal Mail and PostNL apparently like to dump parcels
rather than hand over to their opposite number for delivery.)

Other than that, there is currently no EU import duty on computers. Countries
set their own VAT rates, which is generally around 20%. One difference here is
that the USA quotes prices exclusive of sales tax, whereas consumer prices are
quoted inclusive of VAT. So that's an apparent ~20% difference in sticker price
even for something that costs the same either side of the pond. B2B prices in
the EU are quoted exclusive of VAT ("ex-VAT") and are thus more comparable
like-for-like with USA prices.

UK VAT was 8% back in 1977, except for "petrol and some luxury goods" which was
12.5%. It's possible that computers were considered luxury goods, but since the
main purchasers back then would be businesses who effectively do not pay VAT,
this is moot. Businesses and consumers alike would still have to pay import
duties, which I suspect would have ben quite formidable back then.

These days, the ex-VAT price of mass-produced tech goods and similar generic
non-perishables seem to be pretty much the same across the world.

For example Amazon ASIN B07FNK6QMT is €149.99 in Germany (inc 19% VAT; €126.04
ex-VAT), €152.51 in the Netherlands (inc 21% VAT; €126.04 ex-VAT again), and
£139.99 (=€156.61) in the UK (inc 20% VAT; €130.51 ex-VAT). The same product
with a different ASIN is $139.99 (=€126.94 before sales tax) from the USA.

Oddly enough, I tend to import this sort of thing from Germany. I'll pass on
that particular Brexit Bonus.

Re: history is hard

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 05:04:10PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> also, the Amiga wrote track rather than sector at a time, so a sector write
> needed to be delayed until the track was ready to be written

And could therefore corrupt ten unrelated sectors from other files at the same
time. When it popped up "You MUST replace volume Empty in DF0:", it was not
messing about.

[...]
> computer/OS control of disk eject and power is what's needed to solve it.
> Either hardware locks, or very thorough (difficult) eductaion of users. If
> the user ASKS THE OS to eject the disk, then it can easily be delayed until
> safe to do it. Similar with power shutdown (which users are now familiar
> with)

There are SCSI commands for locking drives and performing eject and
contemporary operating systems do seem to use them. You'll mostly observe this
when using optical media because that's the only non-obsolete hardware left
which still supports them, and most of the time they're used for read-only
media anyway so it's somewhat moot.

I would be most intrigued to see what a hardware lock and soft-eject for a USB
key would look like.

> In addition, the performance improvement that SMARTDRV did of optimizing the
> sequence of multiple writes out of sequence (all directory sectors, THEN all
> disk sectors) was dangerous if there was an interruption (not necessarily
> just user) before it was finished.

Fortunately, there now exist robust filesystems which ensure that partial
writes are not visible and that only the last few seconds of uncommitted data
still in the write queue is lost. Unfortunately, these tend not to be used much
because they're "slow"[0] and/or because it's on removable media formatted with
a joke filesystem because of Windows.


[0] For anybody who values throughput over durability, may I recommend
/dev/null for the ultimate in performance?

Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 27/05/2020 11:55, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:

It's better now, though. Price differences can be explained by delivery costs,
import duties, and VAT/sales tax. And in the case of 1977, middlemen who
exploit the difficulty in importing stuff oneself.

The USA is some sort of gravity well when it comes to postage. It's cheap-ish
to send stuff to it, but unreasonably expensive to send stuff from there. So
for a product actually made in the USA, USPS, UPS, etc all conspire to ratchet
the price up.


Very often, yes.  I see that most notably when I look at huge shipping 
charges for stuff on eBay.co.uk or from the Global Store as seen on 
Amazon.co.uk.  Yet it's not always the case.  Recently I needed a part 
for a Weller soldering station originally bought from Farnell in the UK. 
 They're a Weller agent, only a few tens of miles from where I live, so 
the logical place to look.  Nevertheless, it was almost 40% cheaper to 
buy the part from Digikey, including UPS shipping from Texas to my 
address in the the UK, where it arrived in 36 hours.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Looking for docs, software for Lomac DAVID

[Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk]

I’ve received a Logical Machine Corporation (Lomac) DAVID system, which appears 
to be  successor to the Lomac ADAM.

The system consists of the main box with an 8” floppy drive (labeled “DAVID 
PROCESSOR”), a keyboard/monitor box (labeled “DAVID DISPLAY”), and a printer.

I am looking for both documentation and software for this system. The first 
thing I need to sort out is how to connect the display and processor. The 
display has a single cable with a male DB-25 connector; the processor has a 
connector labeled “DISPLAY”, but it’s a female DC-37 connector. If anyone ever 
had or worked with one of these, perhaps they remember if there was some kind 
of adapter in between.

Camiel

Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/26/20 9:24 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:

On 5/26/2020 1:35 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:



Of course, COBOL is even older and also had structures.



Not everybody had access to power computing, some had to make do with
a PDP 7 and write Unix.



You seem to place very high needs on COBOL.  Most early mainframes had
less memory than the home computers mentioned here.  I developed COBOL
programs on an LSI-11/02 with 28KW of memory and 4 RX02 8" floppies.

bill

Re: history is hard

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 27 May 2020, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:

I would be most intrigued to see what a hardware lock and soft-eject for a USB
key would look like.


Eject would require fairly precise fit for a solenoid follower around the 
perimeter.

Are the square holes in the USB-A top and bottom side standardized?
Are they strong enough to discourage ham-fisted users? (needs to also 
ba a flashing light surrounding the port!)

Would red/green lights be enough to help mitigate the problem?

Win7 does sometimes erroneously report a device in use when all 
application programs that accessed it have been closed.   I am unaware of 
how to query "WHICH program claims to still be using it?"
But the memory leaks and a few other problems are enough that WIN7 can 
benefit from periodic restarts.  It, at least MY copies, are definitely 
NOT a permanently ON OS.




Fortunately, there now exist robust filesystems which ensure that partial
writes are not visible and that only the last few seconds of uncommitted data
still in the write queue is lost. Unfortunately, these tend not to be used much
because they're "slow"[0] and/or because it's on removable media formatted with
a joke filesystem because of Windows.


A joke operating system doesn't provide much CHOICE of which filesystems 
to use.
And it dates back decades, even to "advice" columns in magazines 
recommending to turn VERIFY off in DOS.
(NOTE: for those unfamiliar: "VERIFY" (both DOS and Int13h) was not a read 
after write compare of content; it merely confirmed that each sector that 
was written was readable.)



[0] For anybody who values throughput over durability, may I recommend
   /dev/null for the ultimate in performance?

Re: Replacing cables sheaths?

[Patrick Finnegan via cctalk]

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:22 PM Craig Ruff via cctech 
wrote:

> Does anyone know of an effective technique to replace the sheath of a
> cable without needing to reterminate the ends? On all of the Apple power
> adapter cables I've used the plastic sheath starts to fall apart, but the
> adapter itself and the cable conductors are still useable. Something that
> results in a reasonably flexible coating that doesn't look like a horrible
> accident happened to the cable? :-)
>

If you can't use heat-shrink tubing, it sounds to me like a good use for
Plasti Dip.  Just cover up the connector end first...

Pat

Looking for Cobalt Qube cases

[Laurens Vets via cctalk]

Hello,

I'm looking for Cobalt Qube cases, preferably in North America.

I would prefer non working Qubes as I don't want to deprive anyone of 
working ones. Doesn't matter whether it's a 1, 2 or 3. I'm looking to 
repurpose the cases.


Thanks!

Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC

[John Ames via cctalk]

Liam Proven wrote:
> I don't know. There is a huge amount of tradition and culture in
> computing now, and as a result, few people seem to have informed,
> relatively unbiased opinions. There hasn't been much real diversity in
> decades.
>
> 25 or 30y ago, people discussed the merits of Smalltalk or Prolog or
> Forth; now most people have never seen or heard of them, and it's just
> which curly-bracket language you favour, or does your preferred
> language run in a VM or is it compiled to a native binary.
Agreed. While I'm much more favorably disposed towards C than you are,
the increasing homogeneity of almost all modern languages is
discouraging and, I think, detrimental to the field as a whole. Forth
and Smalltalk alike were eye-openers when I discovered them (and
Smalltalk in particular was a breath of fresh air, after I'd spent
years failing to ever really grok OOP with the likes of C++ and Java,)
because both presented genuinely *different* and beautifully
consistent ways to think about structuring and specifying a computer
program. These days, though, outside of deliberately jokey
ultra-esoteric languages, it's pretty much just a bunch of
domain-specific Java/Javascript knockoffs from horizon to horizon.

> I am just surprised that this (to me) rather inelegant design survived
> and got to market, given what you've said about the same company's
> ruthless drive for cost-cutting removed one PCB trace even though it
> killed floppy-disk performance, or wouldn't use an extra ROM chip
> because it was too expensive.
>
> It seems inconsistent.
It's marketing - consistency there is a non-consideration, if not
actively striven against. The whole saga with CP/M on CBM was a
boondoggle - the CP/M cart existed because business customers wanted a
CP/M add-in to run their spreadsheets and their whatnot, but it didn't
end up being a good fit for reasons already stated (slow CPU, slow
disk, 40-column only.) The 128 improved on those points, but not
nearly enough to become competitive with the advancements CP/M
machines had made in that time, and in the process wasted precious
man-hours and drove up the cost and complexity of the unit - and all
the while CP/M had been losing ground to MS-DOS in the business market
for years! But marketing promised it, so it had to happen... :/

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Paul McJones via cctalk]

> On May 26, 2020, Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> On 5/26/20 6:39 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Algol W was from Eroupe?
>> 
>> Algol W was from Stanford, written by Wirth when he was there
> 
> Actually, by Dick Sites
> 
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/stanford/cs_techReports/STAN-CS-71-230_Algol_W_Reference_Manual_Feb72.pdf
>  
> 

Dick must have done a lot of work on that version, but an earlier manual by 
Henry R. Bauer, Sheldon Becker, and Susan L . Graham says:

The project was initiated and directed by Professor Niklaus Wirth, who proposed 
many of the ideas incorporated in the compiler and suggested ways to bring them 
about. Joseph W. Wells, Jr. and Edwin H. Satterthwaite, Jr. wrote the PL/360 
System in which the compiler is embedded, the linkages to the compiler, and the 
loader. Although the authors did the bulk of the programming for the compiler, 
valuable contributions were made by Larry L, Bumgarner, Jean-Paul Rossiensky, 
Joyce B. Keckler, Patricia V. Koenig, John Perine, and Elizabeth Fong.

http://i.stanford.edu/pub/cstr/reports/cs/tr/68/98/CS-TR-68-98.pdf

And Ed Satthertwaite wrote a source-level debugger for the system. More on 
Algol W here:

http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol60impl/#ALGOL_W

and more on the designs that led up to it here (search for the names Wirth and 
Hoare):

http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/standards/

in particular:

N. Wirth and C. A. R. Hoare. A contribution to the development of ALGOL. 
Communications of the ACM, Volume 9, Number 6 (June 1966), pages 413-432. ACM 
Digital Library 
"Euler caught the attention of the IFIP Working Group that was engaged in 
planning the future of ALGOL. The language ALGOL 60, designed by and for 
numerical mathematicians, had a systematic structure and a concise definition 
that were appreciated by mathematically trained people but lacked compilers and 
support by industry. To gain acceptance, its range of application had to be 
widened. The Working Group assumed the task of proposing a successor and soon 
split into two camps. On one side were the ambitious who wanted to erect 
another milestone in language design, and, on the other, those who felt that 
time was pressing and that an adequately extended ALGOL 60 would be a 
productive endeavor. I belonged to this second party and submitted a proposal 
that lost the election. Thereafter, the proposal was improved with 
contributions from Tony Hoare (a member of the same group) and implemented on 
Stanford University's first IBM 360. The language later became known as ALGOL W 
and was used in several universities for teaching purposes." [Wirth 1985 
]
 

Replacing cables sheaths?

[Craig Ruff via cctalk]

Does anyone know of an effective technique to replace the sheath of a cable 
without needing to reterminate the ends? On all of the Apple power adapter 
cables I've used the plastic sheath starts to fall apart, but the adapter 
itself and the cable conductors are still useable. Something that results in a 
reasonably flexible coating that doesn't look like a horrible accident happened 
to the cable? :-)

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Paul McJones via cctalk]

On May 27, 2020, Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:

> Al Kossow wrote:
>>> Algol W was from Eroupe?
>> Algol W was from Stanford, written by Wirth when he was there
> 
> I wonder if there's any connection to Stanford's SAIL language?

Good question. I believe the answer is “Wirth was initially involved with 
both”. Here’s a bit of history in the Preface to a SAIL manual:

HISTORY OF THE LANGUAGE
The  GOGOL  III compiler,  developed  principally by  Dan  Swinehart  at the
Stanford Artificial  Intelligence Project,  was the  basis for  the non-LEAP
portions  of SAIL.   Robert Sproull  joined Swinehart  in  incorporating the
features of LEAP The first version of the language was released in November,
1969.   SAIL's intermediate  development was  the responsibility  of Russell
Taylor,  Jim  Low,  and Hanan  Samet,  who  introduced  processes, procedure
variables, interrupts,  contexts, matching procedures,  a new  macro system,
and other features.   Most recently John  Reiser, Robert Smith,  and Russell
Taylor  maintained and  extended SAIL.   They added  a  high-level debugger,
conversion to TENEX, a print statement, and records and references.

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib20-01/01/decus/20-0002/sail.man.html

And here’s a 1964 Stanford TimeSharing Project Memo by McKeeman and Wirth on 
Gogol:

Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time 
sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical definition 
of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a brief description 
of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to 
permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly into memory. The 
speed of compilation together with the accessibility of the text editor make 
program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the 
availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for learning to use 
the language. More detailed information depends heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 
hardware.

https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf

Last MSV11-P question: Using them as Q bus memories

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Ok, so we banged the MSV11-P revision B/C memory issues into the ground 
(looks like the problem is burst mode DMA on Q Bus can cause random 
failures that corrupt disks) however does anyone know if the bug will 
affect the board if you use it as a normal Q bus memory board?


In other words, if you put the board *below* an 11/73 or 11/83 so it 
reports as a non-PMI memory will it still have the same problem? I'd 
like to run my system with a full 4mb of memory, using my normal parity 
2mb board and a 2mb MSV11-P board that was from an 11/83?


Inquiring minds want to know :-)

C

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[ben via cctalk]

On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:


And here’s a 1964 Stanford TimeSharing Project Memo by McKeeman and Wirth on 
Gogol:

Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time 
sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical definition 
of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a brief description 
of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to 
permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly into memory. The 
speed of compilation together with the accessibility of the text editor make 
program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the 
availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for learning to use 
the language. More detailed information depends heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 
hardware.

https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf

Do we have CODE? PDP-1's seems to be showing up more often than a PDP 8 
as retro project.

Ben.

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[ben via cctalk]

On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:


Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time 
sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical definition 
of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a brief description 
of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol was designed to 
permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly into memory. The 
speed of compilation together with the accessibility of the text editor make 
program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the 
availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for learning to use 
the language. More detailed information depends heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 
hardware.

https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf

Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of 
expression. Ascii dropping the arrow symbol may have messed up a few 
langauges.

Ben.

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-27 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1
>> time sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the
>> syntactical definition of the language and a number of sample programs
>> as well as a brief description of the operational characteristics of
>> the compiler. Gogol was designed to permit fast compilation of
>> efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of compilation
>> together with the accessibility of the text editor make program de-
>> bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the
>> availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for
>> learning to use the language. More detailed information depends
>> heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
>>
>> https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
>>
> Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of
> expression. Ascii dropping the arrow symbol may have messed up a few
> langauges.
> Ben.
> 


It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
relatively modern languages:

https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb

--Toby

[Fira Code fwiw]

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On May 27, 2020, at 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time 
>> sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical 
>> definition of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a 
>> brief description of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol 
>> was designed to permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly 
>> into memory. The speed of compilation together with the accessibility of the 
>> text editor make program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples 
>> presented here plus the availability of the compiler should form an adequate 
>> basis for learning to use the language. More detailed information depends 
>> heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
>> https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
> Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of expression. 

I remember that from POP-2, which I think was created at U of Edinborough.  At 
least we used it at University of Illinois on an AI course taught by a visiting 
professor who came from there.  Odd language, I haven't seen it since.

paul

Living Computer Museum

[Guy Sotomayor via cctalk]

I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
actually means.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Living Computer Museum

[geneb via cctalk]

On Wed, 27 May 2020, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:


I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
actually means.


They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Guy Sotomayor via cctalk]

On Wed, 2020-05-27 at 14:57 -0700, geneb wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2020, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
> 
> > I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they
> > were
> > suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> > actually means.
> > 
> 
> They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.

That I knew.  It's just that the email that was sent sounded pretty
ominous.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Hm. Well, if I have to drive out there and pick up AI, the letter is 
there. Just let me know.


C

On 5/27/2020 5:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:

I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
actually means.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Ed C. via cctalk]

https://www.livingcomputers.org/Closure.aspx



On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:02 AM Chris Zach via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hm. Well, if I have to drive out there and pick up AI, the letter is
> there. Just let me know.
>
> C
>
> On 5/27/2020 5:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
> > I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
> > suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> > actually means.
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
>

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Lee Courtney via cctalk]

"In the coming weeks we’ll follow up with information about ticket,
membership and donation refunds."

The "membership and donation refunds." bothers me the most, especially with
Paul Allen no longer on the scene.

If LCM were to cease operations permanently that would be a disaster, as
there is no institution that performs the preservation, restoration, and
hands-on public education function as well as them. :-(

Lee C.

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:53 PM Guy Sotomayor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
> suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> actually means.
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>

-- 
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[John Forecast via cctalk]

On May 27, 2020, at 4:59 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 27, 2020, at 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk  wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>>> Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1 time 
>>> sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the syntactical 
>>> definition of the language and a number of sample programs as well as a 
>>> brief description of the operational characteristics of the compiler. Gogol 
>>> was designed to permit fast compilation of efficient machine code directly 
>>> into memory. The speed of compilation together with the accessibility of 
>>> the text editor make program de- bugging relatively rapid. The examples 
>>> presented here plus the availability of the compiler should form an 
>>> adequate basis for learning to use the language. More detailed information 
>>> depends heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
>>> https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
>> Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of expression. 
> 
> I remember that from POP-2, which I think was created at U of Edinborough.  
> At least we used it at University of Illinois on an AI course taught by a 
> visiting professor who came from there.  Odd language, I haven't seen it 
> since.
> 

I used POP-2 at the University of Lancaster (ICL1909) and the University of 
Essex (PDP-10) in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s. The language implemented an 
open stack so to swap the contents of 2 variables you would use:

A, B ->A ->B

POP-2 later morphed into POP-11 running under Unix on a PDP-11. Later came 
POPLOG which merged in support for PROLOG and LISP. There is a open-source 
implementation of POPLOG available.

   John.

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[ben via cctalk]

On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:


It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
relatively modern languages:

https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb


Arg a web page!
The first thing that comes to mind is "How many terrabytes" for "hello 
World".
This might mean modern for most people,but a language that has no leaky 
memory

might be more useful, or say easy to use lists like in lisp.


--Toby

[Fira Code fwiw]


Modern machines have many good features, but they all are the
blah-humbug copies of each other. Blinking light computers on the other 
hand...


Ben.

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Indeed. This looks bad. Hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of their hat
and figure out how to reopen, but I'm not holding my breath.

Mike

On Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:26 PM Lee Courtney via cctalk 
wrote:

> "In the coming weeks we’ll follow up with information about ticket,
> membership and donation refunds."
>
> The "membership and donation refunds." bothers me the most, especially with
> Paul Allen no longer on the scene.
>
> If LCM were to cease operations permanently that would be a disaster, as
> there is no institution that performs the preservation, restoration, and
> hands-on public education function as well as them. :-(
>
> Lee C.
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:53 PM Guy Sotomayor via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
> > suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> > actually means.
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> >
>
> --
> Lee Courtney
> +1-650-704-3934 cell
>

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

Indeed. This looks bad. Hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of their hat
and figure out how to reopen, but I'm not holding my breath.
Mike


That place was funded by Paul Allen right? I would have thought it would 
have been setup to last many years.


- Ethan


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Living Computer Museum

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.

A lot of smaller museums are going into hibernation. Most are
confident they will reopen sometime in the future, but well past the
points that they are allowed to by government order.

It is unfortunate for the paid staff.

--
Will

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
>> relatively modern languages:
>>
>> https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
> 
> Arg a web page!

I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know.

But does the list actually support attachments?


> ...
> 
> Ben.
> 

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:36 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.
>
> A lot of smaller museums are going into hibernation. Most are
> confident they will reopen sometime in the future, but well past the
> points that they are allowed to by government order.
>
> It is unfortunate for the paid staff.
>
> --
> Will
>

Makes no sense, I am sure it's only temporary.  The artifacts are not going
anywhere, but there is always so much to do, this is a great time to retool
and prepare to re-open a-fresh
b

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Ian McLaughlin via cctalk]

This related story makes the situation a bit scarier.

https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/vulcan-to-close-its-arts-entertainment-division-which-includes-cinerama-and-seattle-art-fair/
 


Ian


> On May 27, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:36 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>>> They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.
>> 
>> A lot of smaller museums are going into hibernation. Most are
>> confident they will reopen sometime in the future, but well past the
>> points that they are allowed to by government order.
>> 
>> It is unfortunate for the paid staff.
>> 
>> --
>> Will
>> 
> 
> Makes no sense, I am sure it's only temporary.  The artifacts are not going
> anywhere, but there is always so much to do, this is a great time to retool
> and prepare to re-open a-fresh
> b

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

That’s worrying.  When the Historical Resource Center I was working with in my 
area shutdown a few years ago, Ian came down and collected a U-Haul worth of 
stuff, including part of my personal collection.  What I really regret sending 
up there is a large box of Honeywell DPS-8 documentation from when I worked at 
a DPS-8 Mainframe site.

I believe Richard Alderson is on this list, hopefully he’ll comment on their 
status.

Zane




> On May 27, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> This related story makes the situation a bit scarier.
> 
> https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/vulcan-to-close-its-arts-entertainment-division-which-includes-cinerama-and-seattle-art-fair/
>  
> 
>  
>   
> >
> 
> Ian

Re: Replacing cables sheaths?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/27/20 12:38 PM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:22 PM Craig Ruff via cctech 
> wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone know of an effective technique to replace the sheath of a
>> cable without needing to reterminate the ends? On all of the Apple power
>> adapter cables I've used the plastic sheath starts to fall apart, but the
>> adapter itself and the cable conductors are still useable. Something that
>> results in a reasonably flexible coating that doesn't look like a horrible
>> accident happened to the cable? :-)
>>
> 
> If you can't use heat-shrink tubing, it sounds to me like a good use for
> Plasti Dip.  Just cover up the connector end first...
> 
> Pat
> 


There are a few products offered under the label of "wrap-around heat
shrink tubing".  Not cheap.

--Chuck

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Aw shit

(Where is the nearest U Haul?)

CZ

On 5/27/2020 8:13 PM, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk wrote:

This related story makes the situation a bit scarier.

https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/vulcan-to-close-its-arts-entertainment-division-which-includes-cinerama-and-seattle-art-fair/
 


Ian



On May 27, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
wrote:

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:36 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.


A lot of smaller museums are going into hibernation. Most are
confident they will reopen sometime in the future, but well past the
points that they are allowed to by government order.

It is unfortunate for the paid staff.

--
Will



Makes no sense, I am sure it's only temporary.  The artifacts are not going
anywhere, but there is always so much to do, this is a great time to retool
and prepare to re-open a-fresh
b

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

If you're in South Eastern Pennsylvania, Kennett Classic is open; lean and
mean and I suppose and a 50th of the LCM but open nonetheless (by
appointment).  The sign on the door reads "No shoes, no shirt, no mask- no
service.  I was there all day today.

Currently working to decipher some Honeywell DDP-516 papertapes there, core
memory on a PDP 8e, stuff like that.  Finished repairs on a customer's
C-64's.  Visitors are welcome, kennettclassic.com.

Bill


On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:06 PM Chris Zach via cctalk 
wrote:

> Aw shit
>
> (Where is the nearest U Haul?)
>
> CZ
>
> On 5/27/2020 8:13 PM, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk wrote:
> > This related story makes the situation a bit scarier.
> >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/vulcan-to-close-its-arts-entertainment-division-which-includes-cinerama-and-seattle-art-fair/
> <
> https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/vulcan-to-close-its-arts-entertainment-division-which-includes-cinerama-and-seattle-art-fair/
> >
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> >> On May 27, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:36 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
> >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
>  They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.
> >>>
> >>> A lot of smaller museums are going into hibernation. Most are
> >>> confident they will reopen sometime in the future, but well past the
> >>> points that they are allowed to by government order.
> >>>
> >>> It is unfortunate for the paid staff.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Will
> >>>
> >>
> >> Makes no sense, I am sure it's only temporary.  The artifacts are not
> going
> >> anywhere, but there is always so much to do, this is a great time to
> retool
> >> and prepare to re-open a-fresh
> >> b
> >
>

Re: Living Computer Museum

[TeoZ via cctalk]

They probably don't know.

Anytime somebody with $20B dies it will take years to sort out the estate 
because of taxes and people lining up for money due (legit or not). Any 
charities set up before he passed probably have to live off of what money 
they had on hand before his passing for a few years until the tax guys sign 
off on where the rest of his assets go. And since most of his wealth was in 
things (companies, buildings, stocks, art, etc.) when the taxes are decided 
on things have to be sold to pay for that.



-Original Message- 
From: Guy Sotomayor via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:52 PM
To: Paul Koning via cctalk
Subject: Living Computer Museum

I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
actually means.

TTFN - Guy 



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[ben via cctalk]

On 5/27/2020 5:47 PM, Toby Thain wrote:

On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:

On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:


It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
relatively modern languages:

https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb


Arg a web page!


I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know.


At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be 
simple information.



But does the list actually support attachments?


As far as I know it does not. I suspect because of spam and copywrites
with program code or data.

Ben.

Re: Living Computer Museum

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> Anytime somebody with $20B dies it will take years to sort out the estate
> because of taxes and people lining up for money due (legit or not).

Yes, for people that had no "exit strategy", but somehow I think Paul
Allen did some sort of estate planning before he passed...

--
Will

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:23 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > Anytime somebody with $20B dies it will take years to sort out the estate
> > because of taxes and people lining up for money due (legit or not).
>
> Yes, for people that had no "exit strategy", but somehow I think Paul
> Allen did some sort of estate planning before he passed...
>
> --
> Will
>

What is disturbing and perhaps not surprising that the people at the top
have no interest in the museum.  For them, shut it down for now allows for
the more important stuff to be dealt with first.  Big picture it's not
important relative to other things like professional sports teams and
islands in the Pacific.

b

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

This is why people should avoid donating equipment directly to institutions and 
instead lend hardware to them.

At least then you have a claim with which to try to get your stuff back if they 
fold, close, or decide to go in a direction you don’t like.

  -- Chris

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

The big problem with this situation is that it’s simply unnecessary: Living 
Computer Museum + Labs is not independent of Vulcan, and Vulcan can *easily* 
afford to keep the people who work there on payroll and working from home 
indefinitely.

This is happening entirely because the people holding the pursestrings have no 
idea how to run a museum, or even what a museum *does*. It’s pretty clear that 
they think they can just pack things away for a while, then hire a few people 
to take tickets and put out exhbits when they decide to reopen, without any 
consideration to the kind of historical preservation work the museum is in the 
process of doing or even what might need to be done to prepare exhibits for 
public access, what it means to be ready to obtain, receive, and preserve 
newly-uncovered historical artifacts, and so on.

https://twitter.com/eschaton/status/1265751114953011200

A group of people who actually understand (like Woz and Gates et al) should 
step in, take it off Vulcan’s hands, and endow it as an independent entity. And 
people should stop donating their collections to museums and lend them instead.

  -- Chris

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-27 9:19 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 5:47 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
>> On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
>>>
 It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
 relatively modern languages:

 https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
>>>
>>> Arg a web page!
>>
>> I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know.
> 
> At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
> simple information.

It's a picture. They can be useful.

> 
>> But does the list actually support attachments?
> 
> As far as I know it does not. I suspect because of spam and copywrites
> with program code or data.
> 
> Ben.
> 

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

That wasn’t an option for most folks. They told me that they didn’t accept 
items on loan.

alan 

> On May 27, 2020, at 19:33, Chris Hanson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> This is why people should avoid donating equipment directly to institutions 
> and instead lend hardware to them.
> 
> At least then you have a claim with which to try to get your stuff back if 
> they fold, close, or decide to go in a direction you don’t like.
> 
>  -- Chris
> 

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

On May 27, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Alan Perry  wrote:
> 
> That wasn’t an option for most folks. They told me that they didn’t accept 
> items on loan.

Well, that really sucks.

  -- Chris

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Jecel Assumpcao Jr via cctalk]

Alan Perry wrote on Wed, 27 May 2020 20:02:06 -0700
> That wasn't an option for most folks. They told me that they didn't accept 
> items on loan.
> 
> alan 
> 
> > On May 27, 2020, at 19:33, Chris Hanson wrote:
> > 
> > This is why people should avoid donating equipment directly to institutions 
> > and instead lend hardware to them.
> > 
> > At least then you have a claim with which to try to get your stuff back if 
> > they fold, close, or decide to go in a direction you don't like.
> > 
> >  -- Chris
> > 

I would think that if people you liked got replaced with people who
don't care then you might have a major battle trying to get back stuff
you loaned.

A while back people were pressuring me to donate my stuff to the local
university's computer museum (which I was helping). I knew that most of
the professors were hostile to it (the idea is that history is
irrelevant for computer science) and that the direction of the museum
would change hands every two years. The things that happened since
proved I was right to hold on to my stuff.

-- Jecel

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

On May 27, 2020, at 8:48 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr  wrote:
> 
> I would think that if people you liked got replaced with people who
> don't care then you might have a major battle trying to get back stuff
> you loaned.

It might be a battle, possibly even a major one, but it would be fundamentally 
winnable when there’s explicitly no transfer of ownership.

That may, of course, be why they told Alan they don’t take loans; they may want 
to not worry about dealing with people who want loaned pieces returned, or 
dealing with the risk of loss or damage (e.g. insurance), and so on.

  -- Chris

Re: Living Computer Museum

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

most museums  of  all  varieties  are  closed  still  the  smart  ones  
will remain  so  for  a  while  longer...the foolish will jump  the  gun.Ed#
sdIn a message dated 5/27/2020 2:57:12 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On Wed, 27 May 2020, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:

> I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
> suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> actually means.
>
They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.

g.

-- 
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Living Computer Museum

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

yikes  that almost  has  a tome  of  finality  to it  eh?
Ed#
In a message dated 5/27/2020 3:11:19 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

https://www.livingcomputers.org/Closure.aspx



On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:02 AM Chris Zach via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hm. Well, if I have to drive out there and pick up AI, the letter is
> there. Just let me know.
>
> C
>
> On 5/27/2020 5:52 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk wrote:
> > I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
> > suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> > actually means.
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
>

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[ben via cctalk]

On 5/27/2020 8:43 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:


At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
simple information.


It's a picture. They can be useful.


That is why clicking with my mouse did nothing.
I like if eif else fi  for if statements.
What keyboard are you using to get the fancy arrows?
Ben.

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

The big problem with this situation is that it’s simply unnecessary: 
Living Computer Museum + Labs is not independent of Vulcan, and Vulcan 
can *easily* afford to keep the people who work there on payroll and 
working from home indefinitely.


Did Vulcan have a lot of exposure to real estate? Real estate has been a 
huge asset bubble for a long time now. Covid is a perfect excuse for it 
popping, even though it's been long overdue for a while. If Vulcan is 
taking a hit or predicting they are going to take a hit then managers 
might axe all the creative stuff so they don't miss any bonuses.



- Ethan

Re: Living Computer Museum

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 5/27/2020 8:53 PM, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote:

On May 27, 2020, at 8:48 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr  wrote:

I would think that if people you liked got replaced with people who
don't care then you might have a major battle trying to get back stuff
you loaned.

It might be a battle, possibly even a major one, but it would be fundamentally 
winnable when there’s explicitly no transfer of ownership.
I'm in the process of signing a deed of trust assigning title and 
ownership to the CHM in Mountain View of a donation.  I did so with a 
previous donation.


You have to consign them to history and hope the institution can sustain 
the trust they have to do so.


I've talked with one friend there, and am very sad.  Saw another early 
friend's post on Facebook, who is very sad as well.


thanks
Jim

That may, of course, be why they told Alan they don’t take loans; they may want 
to not worry about dealing with people who want loaned pieces returned, or 
dealing with the risk of loss or damage (e.g. insurance), and so on.

   -- Chris

Re: Looking for Cobalt Qube cases

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

what are you dong with the cases?
since  we  are keeping  a  cube  as  a  display  might  like   sow  extra  guts 
  for  backupEd#    SMECC
In a message dated 5/27/2020 12:45:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

Hello,
I'm looking for Cobalt Qube cases, preferably in North America.
I would prefer non working Qubes as I don't want to deprive anyone of working 
ones. Doesn't matter whether it's a 1, 2 or 3. I'm looking to repurpose the 
cases.
Thanks!

Living Computers: Museum + Labs

[Rich Alderson via cctalk]

Hello, everyone,

As I'm sure all of you are aware, the COVID-19 pandemic has led to a crisis 
with devastating effects on many cultural organizations, and more especially on 
those which rely on public gatherings and special events to achieve their 
mission.  Since before we opened to the public in 2012, our philosophy has been 
a simple one:  To understand computing technology of any period, you need to 
experience that technology at first hand.

The current global situation has made it difficult for us to serve our mission, 
and given so much uncertainty we have made the difficult decision to suspend 
all operations of LCM+L for now.  We will spend the months ahead reassessing 
if, how, and when to reopen.  Because that will not happen in any short time 
frame, the staff, including me, have been laid off.

On a personal note, the last 17 years, since July 2003, have been a time of 
growth, excitement, and backbreaking labor which I would not trade for 
anything.  The friendships I have formed, in the community at large (and it is 
international in scope) as well as among my colleagues here, are a comfort to 
me.  I'll be subscribed from a personal address once that is moderator-approved.

Thank you all for your interest in and support for Living Computers: Museum + 
Labs, and our previous incarnations.  It means a great deal to us as we wind 
down the current implementation.


Rich


Rich Alderson
Sr. Systems Engineer/Curator emeritus
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Ave S
Seattle, WA 98134

Cell: (206) 465-2916
Desk: (206) 342-2239

http://www.LivingComputers.org/

Replacing cables sheaths?

[Matti Nummi via cctalk]

You can use cable lacing.
It does not make it pretty(er), but usable.
If You don't want to remove the connectors or cut the cable
You cannot add any new sheath?

There may be some fabric/wowen expandable sheaths
which have been used on power cables earlier but I have no precise knowledge.
Something like when You push it, it bulges.

BR Matti

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Michael Mulhern via cctalk]

I live in hope for the tag “for now”.  It’s always my first place to visit
when I fly in to the west coast.

//m

On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 9:58 am, Bill Degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:36 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > > They've been closed to visitors since early March I think.
> >
> > A lot of smaller museums are going into hibernation. Most are
> > confident they will reopen sometime in the future, but well past the
> > points that they are allowed to by government order.
> >
> > It is unfortunate for the paid staff.
> >
> > --
> > Will
> >
>
> Makes no sense, I am sure it's only temporary.  The artifacts are not going
> anywhere, but there is always so much to do, this is a great time to retool
> and prepare to re-open a-fresh
> b
>
-- 


*Blog: RetroRetrospective – Fun today with yesterday's gear……..
*
*Podcast*: *Retro Computing Roundtable * (Co-Host)

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 5/27/20 9:02 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:
The big problem with this situation is that it’s simply unnecessary: 
Living Computer Museum + Labs is not independent of Vulcan, and Vulcan 
can *easily* afford to keep the people who work there on payroll and 
working from home indefinitely.


Did Vulcan have a lot of exposure to real estate? Real estate has been a 
huge asset bubble for a long time now. Covid is a perfect excuse for it 
popping, even though it's been long overdue for a while. If Vulcan is 
taking a hit or predicting they are going to take a hit then managers 
might axe all the creative stuff so they don't miss any bonuses.


Vulcan is reported to have pulled the plug on their entertainment 
division (Vulcan Arts + Entertainment). Also part of this is the Flying 
Heritage and Combat Armor Museum and they put out an announcement almost 
identical to the LCM+L announcement. The Seattle Cinerama theater and 
Seattle Art Fair are caught up in this as well. I don't know if the 
MoPOP (formerly the Experience Music Project, the Science Fiction 
Museum, and Science Fiction & Fantasy Hall of Fame, which occupied the 
same building) is part of this.


alan

Re: Replacing cables sheaths?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 5/27/20 1:42 PM, Matti Nummi via cctalk wrote:
> You can use cable lacing.
> It does not make it pretty(er), but usable.
> If You don't want to remove the connectors or cut the cable
> You cannot add any new sheath?
> 
> There may be some fabric/wowen expandable sheaths
> which have been used on power cables earlier but I have no precise knowledge.
> Something like when You push it, it bulges.

There's also "split wire loom" sheathing for cables.

https://www.amazon.com/slp/wire-looms/h27byrkv7773975

--Chuck

Re: Early Nubus history

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

Side note that has been lost to history.

>From 1987-1990 I worked at Mizar Digital Systems, which built STD bus
boards and VMEbus boards.  Its new president who came in in 1988 I think,
Joe Rammunni, decided that the STD bus was a dying technology, and looked
into NuBus.  As I understood at the time, he went and talked to various
PC manufacturers to try to get them to adopt the standard as well, for
their next round of upgrades from ISA.

Nothing came of this.  Without the unified market there wasn't any
incentive for Mizar to get into the business.  But just imagine what
the tech world would have looked like with interchangeable cards for
PCs and Apples.

The only remnant of this effort are my vague personal recollections
and a "NuBus on board" fridge magnet which I retain to this day.

mcl