Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
> I see no relation between DVD- vs. DVD+ and NFS. > > The write speed does not matter if you use BUrnProof or packet writing. > Of course DVD+RW _only_ supports packet writing... The page in question was updated with following two paragraphs: What does plus stand for in DVD+RW/+R? The key feature of DVD+RW/+R media is high [spatial] frequency wobbled [pre-]groove with addressing information modulated into it. This makes it possible to resume interrupted [or delibirately suspended] burning process with accuracy high enough for DVD[-ROM] player not to "notice" anything at playback time. Recovery from buffer underrun condition in DVD-RW/-R case in turn is way less accurate procedure, and the problem is that the provided accuracy is very much what average player can tolerate. Now given that both provided and tolerated inaccuracies are proportional to respectively writing and reading velocities there basically no guarantee that DVD-RW/-R recording that suffered from buffer underrun will be universally playable. Sometimes DVD+RW/+R is erroneously compared with packet writing. Packet writing means that every chunk of actual user data gets surrounded by so called link, run-in and run-out sectors, which wastes some capacity, not to mention that it requires explicit support by player's DSP [Digital Signal Processor] performing the actual decoding of user data. Again thanks to high frequency wobble, no such things are needed for DVD+RW/+R. This is exactly why it's commonly referred to as "designed from scratch for maximum compatibility with DVD-ROM specification." A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 01:22:17PM -0700, Frank Hage wrote: > On 2002.11.06, Joerg Schilling wrote: > : > : > : >From: Matthias Schniedermeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > : > : >> : But DVD-* media is cheaper and I see no advantage in using DVD+ media. > : >> > : >> Other advantages are the ability to completely fill the disks (> 4 GB > : >> iso files are a problem on 32 bit systems) and not needing free space > : >> for the disk images. > : > : >"When you don't know what you are talking about. Shut up". :-) > : > : See above ;-).. > : > : >I burn DVD-Rs for more than a year now and from day one on i had never > : >problems with file-sizes (*1) (*2) > : > > I'm sorry. I forgot that DVD +/- geeks were having a religious war. ;-) You say it. There is only one god. :-) > Yes, you .de guys are right. Your Mileage Varies greatly from mine. A few month ago i even read an articel in our "Linux Magazin" about the "2GB Barrier" (The Topic was DVD-Recording). I felt like beeing warped back into the stoneage. :-) > However, perhaps you should look at it from my point of view. Often > "Confused and Ignorant", I go on trying to do my real job using computers > my institution provides and supports. Stability is a big issue in my work, > so we often run SEVERAL YEARS behind current releases on our computers. We > do this on purpose, because they need to collect and process data 24/7, > often for years at a time. I have limited options and little patience > for chasing development/alpha software. Yes, DVD- works great for you > after you patched, updated, split, etc... and then, what... diddled > Joerg for a cdrecord key? Perhaps I don't have that option. For burning i only had to recompile mkisofs because the version from my distribution wasn't compiled right, it couldn't create an image >2GB. But besides that i didn't had to change anything else in my system. So i've never splitted my images, since the 2GB Barrier was gone since 2.4pre and i used 2.4.4 or 2.4.9 the time i burned my first DVD-R. For reading files bigger 1GB the kernel had to be patched because otherwise the file would be shown as 16MB or something like that. No keys back then. The binary was the key, i got my "own" cdrecord. The keys came later. And another "thing" i never had problems with and where other people have a variing milage is firewire. Since day one i use the DVD-R connected via a IDE <-> Firewire enclosure. It took about 10 "try"s until i finally had my first DVD-R-coaster. :-) Bis denn -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
On 2002.11.06, Joerg Schilling wrote: : : : >From: Matthias Schniedermeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : : >> : But DVD-* media is cheaper and I see no advantage in using DVD+ media. : >> : >> Other advantages are the ability to completely fill the disks (> 4 GB : >> iso files are a problem on 32 bit systems) and not needing free space : >> for the disk images. : : >"When you don't know what you are talking about. Shut up". :-) : : See above ;-).. : : >I burn DVD-Rs for more than a year now and from day one on i had never : >problems with file-sizes (*1) (*2) : I'm sorry. I forgot that DVD +/- geeks were having a religious war. ;-) Yes, you .de guys are right. Your Mileage Varies greatly from mine. However, perhaps you should look at it from my point of view. Often "Confused and Ignorant", I go on trying to do my real job using computers my institution provides and supports. Stability is a big issue in my work, so we often run SEVERAL YEARS behind current releases on our computers. We do this on purpose, because they need to collect and process data 24/7, often for years at a time. I have limited options and little patience for chasing development/alpha software. Yes, DVD- works great for you after you patched, updated, split, etc... and then, what... diddled Joerg for a cdrecord key? Perhaps I don't have that option. Almost 2 years ago, I wanted to be able to start writing DVD's under Linux. I wanted to purchase a DVD-R drive and sent a query off to this list, asking for advice; "what drives work? what software, etc". Little helpful advice was forthcoming, and the software discussion became a nightmare, with Joerg and others battling [can you say time bombs] over DVD writing capabilities. I even got to the point where I exchanged e-mails with Joerg and tried to send him real money, but his failure to provide me with any kind of professional looking invoice, advertisement, contract, bill of goods, etc made this impossible to justify with my administrators. Sorry, Joerg, a terse e-mail demanding $100 US. doesn't fly with my institution. So, I went back to my work and waited for things to settle out. Many months ago, I saw I could get DVD+R drives for less than $400 and there were reports they actually worked on older Linux kernels, using standard tools. We'll almost... One needs some simple software from a friendly chap (Thanks Andy!) who freely posts the software along with tons of practical knowledge and advice. Guess what, a drive is ordered, installed, and tested within a week. 5 more ordered later that week. I'm happy, others are happy and I go on with my real work. When I need to archive or send data sets, I simply NFS mount and go. While some people may choose to ignore non-technical issues when choosing DVD+R vs DVD-R, I take all issues into account. Sometimes, in fact, many times, the non-technical advantages outweigh technical ones. Sorry guys, I still see a few big advantages for DVD+R over DVD-R. -- Frank Hage [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Center for Atmospheric Research -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Margo bekler txpq
On Wed, 06 Nov 2002, Hilda AMAR wrote:
> SADECE TÜRK KAÞARLAR VAR!!!
> DÜNYANIN EN SEKSÝ KIZLARINI CANLI SEYREDÝN! KARÞILIKLI CHAT YAPIN, WEBCAM DE
>ÝSTEDÝÐÝNÝZ HERÞEYÝ YAPSINLAR! SÝZ ÝSTEYÝN ONLAR SOYUNSUN!
> TÜRK KIZLARI-TÜRK KAÞARLARI-TÜRK ÜNV. KIZLARI-TÜRK EV KADINLARI VAR! YABANCI HATUN
>YOK! HEPSÝ SADECE AMA SADECE TÜRK HATUNLARI! VAKÝT KAYBETMEYÝN!
>
> Hiçbir yerde göremeyeceðiniz içerik Margo mekanda.
> http://www.margosex.com
>
>
>
>
> ÿôèPÔ ÿzf¢Úw
> âµïëz«²ß趫ýשÿ¢¸0ØZ²æãyËhû§²æìr¸{ÿÓ®ï¢{ZrÙb²Ù²×«þaz¿Ýy¸ú+
Gesundheit!
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 02:26:21PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > >From: Matthias Schniedermeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> : But DVD-* media is cheaper and I see no advantage in using DVD+ media. > >> > >> Other advantages are the ability to completely fill the disks (> 4 GB > >> iso files are a problem on 32 bit systems) and not needing free space > >> for the disk images. > > >"When you don't know what you are talking about. Shut up". :-) > > See above ;-).. I won't say what one of my teachers in school said about this topic. > >You can't make a single file bigger than 2 GB in an ISO-Filesystem, > >corect. But that is a limitation in of the ISO-Filesystem itself. > > The OP did not talk about single files _inside_ an ISO FS but about ISO-FILES > which usually is a file holding an ISO FS as content. As i said below. That problem doesn't exist (anymore). :-) The 2GB problem is the only size-problem i know. So i included the rant about that limitation to make a (more or less) technically correct statement. Point. > Future versions of mkisofs will allow you to use > 2 GB files in UDF > filesystems. You should rename the program. It doesn't "feel" correct anymore. OK currently you can't skip the ISO-FS. But AFAIR you once said that you will make it possibel to skip the ISO-FS from the image. mkufs mkimg mkhybrid :-) mk_image_suitable_for_burning_on_a_CD-R(W)_or_DVD(-/+)R(W)_(or_other_medium) Bis denn -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
>From: Matthias Schniedermeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> : But DVD-* media is cheaper and I see no advantage in using DVD+ media. >> >> Other advantages are the ability to completely fill the disks (> 4 GB >> iso files are a problem on 32 bit systems) and not needing free space >> for the disk images. >"When you don't know what you are talking about. Shut up". :-) See above ;-).. >You can't make a single file bigger than 2 GB in an ISO-Filesystem, >corect. But that is a limitation in of the ISO-Filesystem itself. The OP did not talk about single files _inside_ an ISO FS but about ISO-FILES which usually is a file holding an ISO FS as content. >When you have a problem creating the 4.5GB Image-File then your system >isn't up to date. Update the system or use the split-option of mkisofs. >I burn DVD-Rs for more than a year now and from day one on i had never >problems with file-sizes (*1) (*2) This is true. >*1: Except that i had to patch the ISO-driver in Linux (kernel 2.4.9) to >recognize files bigger than 1 GB. But that patch made into "normal" >Linux a few revisions later. A known old bug in the linux kernel >*2: I don't count the 2GB Limitation of ISO-fs as a problem. As it is >conceptual there is nothing you can do about it. Future versions of mkisofs will allow you to use > 2 GB files in UDF filesystems. Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 11:49:47AM -0700, Frank Hage wrote: > On 2002.11.04, Joerg Schilling wrote: > : > : > : But DVD-* media is cheaper and I see no advantage in using DVD+ media. > > Other advantages are the ability to completely fill the disks (> 4 GB > iso files are a problem on 32 bit systems) and not needing free space > for the disk images. "When you don't know what you are talking about. Shut up". :-) You can't make a single file bigger than 2 GB in an ISO-Filesystem, corect. But that is a limitation in of the ISO-Filesystem itself. With any other filesystem (or not filesystem at all), that is capable of having bigger files, you don't have that problems. When you have a problem creating the 4.5GB Image-File then your system isn't up to date. Update the system or use the split-option of mkisofs. I burn DVD-Rs for more than a year now and from day one on i had never problems with file-sizes (*1) (*2) *1: Except that i had to patch the ISO-driver in Linux (kernel 2.4.9) to recognize files bigger than 1 GB. But that patch made into "normal" Linux a few revisions later. *2: I don't count the 2GB Limitation of ISO-fs as a problem. As it is conceptual there is nothing you can do about it. Bis denn -- Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DVD+RW/+R for Linux update
>From: Frank Hage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >: But DVD-* media is cheaper and I see no advantage in using DVD+ media. >One advantage I find is the ability to burn directly from NFS mounted >partitions. It's slow but it works well. I've got gobs and gobs of data >spread across many machines, many filled to capacity. It takes me less >time and a lot less work to cross mount our aging workstations and burn >directly than it does to copy and create iso files, and then burn. I see no relation between DVD- vs. DVD+ and NFS. The write speed does not matter if you use BUrnProof or packet writing. Of course DVD+RW _only_ supports packet writing... >Other advantages are the ability to completely fill the disks (> 4 GB >iso files are a problem on 32 bit systems) and not needing free space >for the disk images. It looks like you are confused. >Although its possible to pipe mkisofs output to cdrecord and avoid >producing an image, (which I usually do for CDR), buffer underruns >are a problem when the files live across on a NFS partition. See above. Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
