Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 seconds to say...Hey, it did not work but maybe next time? AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer relationship is that? This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have a lot to tell about programmers too. This is just my $0.02 cents, Ravi. Jerry Johnson wrote: I was (mostly) kidding. But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk work to get someone into a job. It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each client from the equation. It is easy to get paralyzed with I _need_ a job this week, or I lose my house (my children are sick, my mother-in-law lives with us, etc), but you cannot let it get to you. You need to be able to take 30 rejections in stride, and swing just as hard, with as much patience and professionalism as you did on the first. And you need to be able to In the glory days of the dot com era it was an easy job. (pick one resume at random from column a, match with one job opening from column b, profit!) But companies (for the most part) are much smarter in their hiring. and tech staff are much more skittish after bad experiences. So matchmaking is important if you want any follow on placements. The skillset that makes a good recruiter, in my opinion, are very specific. As Rob mentions below, they need to leave the tech staff feeling decent (even if turned down), need to leave the company feeling good (whether you place a person or not, you still want them to keep your card for next time. Because there will be a next time). You need for your recruiting company to feel you are contributing. And you need to feel pretty good about what you are doing (and how you are doing it) or the smudges on your soul get overwhelming and over time very obvious to others. I don't have the right skills, but I respect the skills in others and can recognize people that do have it all when I meet them. On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Rich Baker ri...@teaminfo.com wrote: Wow... Probably should have exercised better judgment than in sending that email to the whole group... - To each his own Richard E. Baker | TEAM Information Services ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4192 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Seems we all have similar experiences. Would love to hear what a recruiter has to say! Adrian -Original Message- From: Scott Stewart [mailto:sstwebwo...@bellsouth.net] Sent: 12 March 2009 19:36 To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Hey all, Since there's a large number of recruiters on this list, I've been wondering. How does one break into technical recruiting? I've got years of experience as a ColdFusion developer, but it appears that the CF market in NC has dried up. So I'm entertaining the idea of moving into recruiting, but have no idea where to start. Thanks in advance for any replies sas -- Scott Stewart ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4193 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, This one kind of got away from the original topic a little : -) There are good Recruiters, and ones who should think about how to improve their customer service skills a bit, and yet others who would do the world a service and go back to selling used cars, or selling junk bonds to little old ladies in Iowa. There's no question about it. Fingers can be pointed all over the place... Recruiters for the lack of follow through, customer service skills, honesty, integrity, etc. Developers for their lack of response, embellishment of skills, dishonesty about being submitted to certain clients, or actually applying directly once a Recruiter revealed the company name, etc, etc... Unfortunately, there are a lot of obstacles and preconceived notions that exist on both sides of the fence. There are many people who don't see the value recruiters bring to the table; people who have never needed to rely on other people to help them find a job. Yet others who are very happy to work with Recruiters (managers and candidates). If you are sincerely interested in delving into this area, please shoot me an email or give me a call. I can give you some good questions to ask that'll help you make sure they are a decent firm to work for. I'll do what I can to help Rich - 407-548-6313 ri...@teaminfo.com -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:02 AM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 seconds to say...Hey, it did not work but maybe next time? AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer relationship is that? This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have a lot to tell about programmers too. This is just my $0.02 cents, Ravi. Jerry Johnson wrote: I was (mostly) kidding. But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk work to get someone into a job. It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each client from the equation. It is easy to get paralyzed with I _need_ a job this week, or I lose my house (my children are sick, my mother-in-law lives with us, etc), but you cannot let it get to you. You need to be able to take 30 rejections in stride, and swing just as hard, with as much patience and professionalism as you did on the first. And you need to be able to In the glory days of the dot com era it was an easy job. (pick one resume at random from column a, match with one job opening from column b, profit!) But companies (for the most part) are much smarter in their hiring. and tech staff are much more skittish after bad experiences. So matchmaking is important if you want any follow on placements. The skillset that makes a good recruiter, in my opinion, are very specific. As Rob mentions below, they need to leave the tech staff feeling decent (even if turned down), need to leave the company feeling good (whether you place a person or not, you still want them to keep your card for next time. Because there will be a next time). You need for your recruiting company to feel you are contributing. And you need to feel pretty good about what you are doing (and how you are doing it) or the smudges on your soul get overwhelming and over time very obvious to others. I don't have
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Some technical recruiters work with the concepts of a fisherman's net. They will catch anyone and everyone for a position, good fit or not. Whenever a recruiter contacts me I take control of the conversation, as I have gotten tired of driving all the way down to 'their' office to fill out their paperwork, just to find out that the job they called me about was not suited for me or my experience levels. Just one story of why it pays to take control of the conversation. I was called by a recruiter who was asking me about my skills for a position she had to fill. After about 15 minutes of talking she said she saw that I had expert skills in Java. I asked her where she saw this and she told me the name of a popular resume site. I immediately pulled up my resume there and looked at it to verify that I was not misrepresenting myself and saw that I made no mention of Java at all in my resume. I am sure many of you have dealt with this yourselves. I told her that I did not have expert skills in Java, and asked her if it was pertinent to the job position. She said it was in the list of required skills and she said that she saw it, then she read to me the line I wrote in that resume describing my Javascript skills. I told her that Javascript is a completely different language from Java. To her credit, she did ask me to explain to her the differences. I did. At least she, hopefully, won't make the same mistake in a future recruitment, but if she hadn't been very conversational, I would have wasted my time going to the interview. I guess I am saying this to you, if you choose to join the ranks of the recruiter, make sure you understand what you are looking for. And if, like so many HR departments do, the requirements look like 'programmer soup' as opposed to a specific requirement, ask the HR department to speak directly to the supervisor who needs the employee. The more knowledgeable of the position you are, the better you present yourself. Looking for a web programmer for a specific company who has to have 8 years of experience in: CF, ASP, .NET, C#, PERL, PHP, C++, JAVA, JavaScript, HTML, PHOTOSHOP, et al Is the same as saying you don't know what you are looking for, unless the actual job description describes why all of the same kinds of programming languages. -- William E. Seiter Need to have your mortgage modified? I charge no fees until I am successful, then I charge almost half the rate you would find elsewhere. Professional. Dedicated. Effective. The Easy 24/7 way to get started: http://www.goldengrove.net/ or you can call: (626) 593 - 5501 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:02 AM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 seconds to say...Hey, it did not work but maybe next time? AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer relationship is that? This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have a lot to tell about programmers too. This is just my $0.02 cents, Ravi. Jerry Johnson wrote: I was (mostly) kidding. But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk work to get someone into a job. It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each client from the
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: William Seiter [mailto:will...@seiter.com] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:50 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Some technical recruiters work with the concepts of a fisherman's net. They will catch anyone and everyone for a position, good fit or not. Whenever a recruiter contacts me I take control of the conversation, as I have gotten tired of driving all the way down to 'their' office to fill out their paperwork, just to find out that the job they called me about was not suited for me or my experience levels. Just one story of why it pays to take control of the conversation. I was called by a recruiter who was asking me about my skills for a position she had to fill. After about 15 minutes of talking she said she saw that I had expert skills in Java. I asked her where she saw this and she told me the name of a popular resume site. I immediately pulled up my resume there and looked at it to verify that I was not misrepresenting myself and saw that I made no mention of Java at all in my resume. I am sure many of you have dealt with this yourselves. I told her that I did not have expert skills in Java, and asked her if it was pertinent to the job position. She said it was in the list of required skills and she said that she saw it, then she read to me the line I wrote in that resume describing my Javascript skills. I told her that Javascript is a completely different language from Java. To her credit, she did ask me to explain to her the differences. I did. At least she, hopefully, won't make the same mistake in a future recruitment, but if she hadn't been very conversational, I would have wasted my time going to the interview. I guess I am saying this to you, if you choose to join the ranks of the recruiter, make sure you understand what you are looking for. And if, like so many HR departments do, the requirements look like 'programmer soup' as opposed to a specific requirement, ask the HR department to speak directly to the supervisor who needs the employee. The more knowledgeable of the position you are, the better you present yourself. Looking for a web programmer for a specific company who has to have 8 years of experience in: CF, ASP, .NET, C#, PERL, PHP, C++, JAVA, JavaScript, HTML, PHOTOSHOP, et al Is the same as saying you don't know what you are looking for, unless the actual job description describes why all of the same kinds of programming languages. -- William E. Seiter Need to have your mortgage modified? I charge no fees until I am successful, then I charge almost half the rate you would find elsewhere. Professional. Dedicated. Effective. The Easy 24/7 way to get started: http://www.goldengrove.net/ or you can call: (626) 593 - 5501 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:02 AM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4202 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Qasim, There is no problem with H1B Visas. I have no clue why Scott mentioned it. Who cares... Ravi. Qasim Rasheed wrote: What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4205 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the new administration so that there is less chance for abuse. Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple of times. Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you personally. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4204 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Ravi, I mentioned it because the way that I understand the program to work is that you have to provide proof to the State Department that you attempted to hire a citizen for the position. All that's required is a stack of resumes, and someone to say that they weren't right for the job. I feel like many of the fishnet recruiters are collecting resumes for the sole purpose of providing that proof. IE: there is no intent to actually attempt to hire a citizen for the position. I could be wrong about how the program works, but this is how it was explained to me a few years ago. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:42 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Qasim, There is no problem with H1B Visas. I have no clue why Scott mentioned it. Who cares... Ravi. Qasim Rasheed wrote: What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4206 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, I have always been a Green Card holder so I am not familiar with other visas. I can't give you a formed opinion on this onesorry Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: Ravi, I mentioned it because the way that I understand the program to work is that you have to provide proof to the State Department that you attempted to hire a citizen for the position. All that's required is a stack of resumes, and someone to say that they weren't right for the job. I feel like many of the fishnet recruiters are collecting resumes for the sole purpose of providing that proof. IE: there is no intent to actually attempt to hire a citizen for the position. I could be wrong about how the program works, but this is how it was explained to me a few years ago. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:42 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Qasim, There is no problem with H1B Visas. I have no clue why Scott mentioned it. Who cares... Ravi. Qasim Rasheed wrote: What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4207 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, I know your comments weren't directed towards anyone in particular and I have also seen the misuse of the program myself. However the thing that bothers me that people try to put all the blame on this program. I know, I came to this country legally, paid all my taxes for 7+ years and earned my green card. I hope we all appreciate the usefulness of real skills coming to this country (which I am now proud to call my second home). Thanks Qasim On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Scott Stewart sstwebwo...@bellsouth.netwrote: There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the new administration so that there is less chance for abuse. Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple of times. Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you personally. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4209 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Personally I'd rather have smart people being brought into this country than them being sent elsewhere. I believe having intelligent people here it is a good long-term strategy for making this country better; no matter where they were born. I understand that many of the criticisms of such programs, such as H1B Visa, is that companies are bringing in foreigners to jobs that native USA-residents are qualified to do; and the workers brought in are treated as indenture servants. I do not know enough about said programs to tell whether that is a valid concern of a bunch of FUD. Qasim Rasheed wrote: Scott, I know your comments weren't directed towards anyone in particular and I have also seen the misuse of the program myself. However the thing that bothers me that people try to put all the blame on this program. I know, I came to this country legally, paid all my taxes for 7+ years and earned my green card. I hope we all appreciate the usefulness of real skills coming to this country (which I am now proud to call my second home). Thanks Qasim On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Scott Stewart sstwebwo...@bellsouth.netwrote: There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the new administration so that there is less chance for abuse. Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple of times. Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you personally. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot r...@ravigehlot.net wrote: Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is are they considering telecommuters, the answer is usually no, or what?. My next question is is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house. The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4211 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
