RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I agree. I like the list and I benefit from it and try to contribute as much as possible. However, if there was a fee involved, I would not stick around. I don't mind advertising at all though. I can see the complaints about the links in the archives and I understand the reasoning for pulling the image-based ads in the emails. I definitely appreciate all that Mike does and hope he's able to recoup some money for it but I'm not in a position to be able to fund that. I like the idea of the free community and as long as it stays that way, I'll be here. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203813 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software Instead of forcing people to pay to subscribe to the list, an alternative could be an advertising free list for a fee - $20 to $50 a year lets say, and a free, but supported by ads lists. That way if you're willing to suffer the ad links in the contents of the messages, you don't have to pay. But you can get rid of the ads by paying a small fee up front. Then after you log into the HOF site, the ad links in the message content would dissappear. This way all views are accommodated. larry -- Larry C. Lyons Web Analyst BEI Resources American Type Culture Collection email: llyons(at)atcc(dot)org tel: 703.365.2700.2678 -- ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203815 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software Instead of forcing people to pay to subscribe to the list, an alternative could be an advertising free list for a fee - $20 to $50 a year lets say, and a free, but supported by ads lists. That way if you're willing to suffer the ad links in the contents of the messages, you don't have to pay. But you can get rid of the ads by paying a small fee up front. Then after you log into the HOF site, the ad links in the message content would dissappear. This way all views are accommodated. larry I don't think Dave is concerned so much with seeing the links himself, but of others seeing them and what content they link to. It wouldn't matter if you paid a thousand dollars a year to not see them; anyone ending up at the archives that isn't a paying member would see them. So that means the only way to not have links in your posts would be to opt out of the list and not post at all. Andy ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203816 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I was on an insulin pump mailing list that had a message asking for donations... if you donated any amount, that message was removed from the emails... I donated $10 and that took care of that... I honestly can't believe that people would drop off the list if a small amount was required... On 4/21/05, Larry Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software Instead of forcing people to pay to subscribe to the list, an alternative could be an advertising free list for a fee - $20 to $50 a year lets say, and a free, but supported by ads lists. That way if you're willing to suffer the ad links in the contents of the messages, you don't have to pay. But you can get rid of the ads by paying a small fee up front. Then after you log into the HOF site, the ad links in the message content would dissappear. This way all views are accommodated. larry -- Larry C. Lyons Web Analyst BEI Resources American Type Culture Collection email: llyons(at)atcc(dot)org tel: 703.365.2700.2678 -- ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203817 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
So, $5 per month is more than you can afford? Or, another way to look at it is: which can you afford to lose more, $5 per month or the help of those on the list in your work? If this is just an issue of principle, why do you insist that you'll only participate in a free list? Do you not expect to get paid for your work? Rick From: Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree. I like the list and I benefit from it and try to contribute as much as possible. However, if there was a fee involved, I would not stick around. I don't mind advertising at all though. I can see the complaints about the links in the archives and I understand the reasoning for pulling the image-based ads in the emails. I definitely appreciate all that Mike does and hope he's able to recoup some money for it but I'm not in a position to be able to fund that. I like the idea of the free community and as long as it stays that way, I'll be here. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203830 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Sounds good, except I would have to agree that the ad links in the message are not a good idea...too little control over links that could be presumed to come from the author. At least advertising to the right or below is usually considered to be inserted and not a part of the message. Yes, I'd go for that...how about $25 per year for ad-free messages or free list participation with advertising? Rick From: Larry Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 11:15 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software Instead of forcing people to pay to subscribe to the list, an alternative could be an advertising free list for a fee - $20 to $50 a year lets say, and a free, but supported by ads lists. That way if you're willing to suffer the ad links in the contents of the messages, you don't have to pay. But you can get rid of the ads by paying a small fee up front. Then after you log into the HOF site, the ad links in the message content would dissappear. This way all views are accommodated. larry -- Larry C. Lyons Web Analyst BEI Resources American Type Culture Collection email: llyons(at)atcc(dot)org tel: 703.365.2700.2678 -- ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203835 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I agree...seems ridiculous to me to drop off a list because of a small fee... Rick From: Clint Tredway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 11:51 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I was on an insulin pump mailing list that had a message asking for donations... if you donated any amount, that message was removed from the emails... I donated $10 and that took care of that... I honestly can't believe that people would drop off the list if a small amount was required... On 4/21/05, Larry Lyons wrote: I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software Instead of forcing people to pay to subscribe to the list, an alternative could be an advertising free list for a fee - $20 to $50 a year lets say, and a free, but supported by ads lists. That way if you're willing to suffer the ad links in the contents of the messages, you don't have to pay. But you can get rid of the ads by paying a small fee up front. Then after you log into the HOF site, the ad links in the message content would dissappear. This way all views are accommodated. larry -- Larry C. Lyons Web Analyst BEI Resources American Type Culture Collection email: llyons(at)atcc(dot)org tel: 703.365.2700.2678 -- ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203837 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
There are plenty of free sources of information out there that this very list offers. There is no way I'd pay to subscribe to a mailing list. Now if I were to find that I was greatly benifiting from it, I would make a donation to whoever maintained it. I have done donations in the past to things that offered me free help that I in turn benifited from in my work. Now if a place put in advertisement links for something I typed then I might think twice about putting postings there. I am on a car forum that does this and rarely post on it these days but my rare postings have nothing to do with their advertisements. On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would not pay a subscription to a list I think you might change your mind if all lists gave the choice of buying a subscription or acceptads and those were the only ones around. That's like saying to Mike...hey, I'm perfectly willing to participate and benefit from your work, but not if you're going to benefit... ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203838 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Keep in mind that while M.Dinowitz did a lot of great work in creating and maintaining this list, a lot of the value comes from the contributors, some of which don't garner much value from the list (from all appearances), and provide a great deal more than they give. You would be effectively asking these folks to pay to avoid advertising while providing the value that you are talking about. Just something else to think about. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? So, $5 per month is more than you can afford? Or, another way to look at it is: which can you afford to lose more, $5 per month or the help of those on the list in your work? If this is just an issue of principle, why do you insist that you'll only participate in a free list? Do you not expect to get paid for your work? Rick From: Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree. I like the list and I benefit from it and try to contribute as much as possible. However, if there was a fee involved, I would not stick around. I don't mind advertising at all though. I can see the complaints about the links in the archives and I understand the reasoning for pulling the image-based ads in the emails. I definitely appreciate all that Mike does and hope he's able to recoup some money for it but I'm not in a position to be able to fund that. I like the idea of the free community and as long as it stays that way, I'll be here. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203842 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I can understand someone's reluctance to pay if really all they do is give answers to others and don't get answers to questions. But if you ever get answers you really need why wouldn't you be willing to help pay for the work that's done to bring you those answers? And if there are so many other resources that are as good as this one, then why participate in this one? I would have to cut something out... takes too long to go through all the mail! And...for info's sake...what other resources can you point out that I could use that are as rich with information, convenient, and have such good participation? Just trying to understand your perspective Rick From: Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:17 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? There are plenty of free sources of information out there that this very list offers. There is no way I'd pay to subscribe to a mailing list. Now if I were to find that I was greatly benifiting from it, I would make a donation to whoever maintained it. I have done donations in the past to things that offered me free help that I in turn benifited from in my work. Now if a place put in advertisement links for something I typed then I might think twice about putting postings there. I am on a car forum that does this and rarely post on it these days but my rare postings have nothing to do with their advertisements. On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: I would not pay a subscription to a list I think you might change your mind if all lists gave the choice of buying a subscription or acceptads and those were the only ones around. That's like saying to Mike...hey, I'm perfectly willing to participate and benefit from your work, but not if you're going to benefit... ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203845 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Yes, that definitely something to consider...I'm more of a taker than a giver...not by choice, but by not having many answers. If I were a 99% giver, I'd be, perhaps, less inclined to pay a subscription. But if it were necessary to help the person running the list, I still wouldn't balk at paying a $25-per-year subscription fee. Besides, if a participant in this list is smart enough to be a 99%-100% giver, without taking anything of value, then they're smart enough to be making plenty and not having to worry about $25 a year. It just seems kind of petty for everyone to be balking at the idea of giving Mike any money at all for something he does 24/7/365 to help all of us and to help CF prosper...I just have a hard time understanding such a selfish attitude...I mean, think about it $25 is far less than the cost of a Forta WACK book, and as soon as it's purchased, it starts becoming obsolete. The list is always up-to-date, and even many times ahead of its time and full of wisdom and experience... Rick From: Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:26 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Keep in mind that while M.Dinowitz did a lot of great work in creating and maintaining this list, a lot of the value comes from the contributors, some of which don't garner much value from the list (from all appearances), and provide a great deal more than they give. You would be effectively asking these folks to pay to avoid advertising while providing the value that you are talking about. Just something else to think about. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? So, $5 per month is more than you can afford? Or, another way to look at it is: which can you afford to lose more, $5 per month or the help of those on the list in your work? If this is just an issue of principle, why do you insist that you'll only participate in a free list? Do you not expect to get paid for your work? Rick From: Burns, John D Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree. I like the list and I benefit from it and try to contribute as much as possible. However, if there was a fee involved, I would not stick around. I don't mind advertising at all though. I can see the complaints about the links in the archives and I understand the reasoning for pulling the image-based ads in the emails. I definitely appreciate all that Mike does and hope he's able to recoup some money for it but I'm not in a position to be able to fund that. I like the idea of the free community and as long as it stays that way, I'll be here. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203847 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Rick...couple of points 1) can we move this to cf-community? 2) did Mike even say he is considering charging for the list? You seem to be fighting for something that the list owner isn't even considering implementing. 3) can we move this to cf-community? On 4/21/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I can understand someone's reluctance to pay if really all they do is give answers to others and don't get answers to questions. But if you ever get answers you really need why wouldn't you be willing to help pay for the work that's done to bring you those answers? And if there are so many other resources that are as good as this one, then why participate in this one? I would have to cut something out... takes too long to go through all the mail! And...for info's sake...what other resources can you point out that I could use that are as rich with information, convenient, and have such good participation? Just trying to understand your perspective Rick From: Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:17 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? There are plenty of free sources of information out there that this very list offers. There is no way I'd pay to subscribe to a mailing list. Now if I were to find that I was greatly benifiting from it, I would make a donation to whoever maintained it. I have done donations in the past to things that offered me free help that I in turn benifited from in my work. Now if a place put in advertisement links for something I typed then I might think twice about putting postings there. I am on a car forum that does this and rarely post on it these days but my rare postings have nothing to do with their advertisements. On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: I would not pay a subscription to a list I think you might change your mind if all lists gave the choice of buying a subscription or acceptads and those were the only ones around. That's like saying to Mike...hey, I'm perfectly willing to participate and benefit from your work, but not if you're going to benefit... ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203850 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
If I pay will someone kill this thread...pretty plz!! ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203853 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Sure, Charlie...no problem. I've said about all I have to say anyway. I don't subscribe to CF-Community...I have a hard enough time getting through all the email I get now. I'm just concerned about Mike...I suspect, based on his comments to the list now and in the past, that he doesn't like bringing up stuff like this and discussing. I just thought I'd carry his banner for awhile. I've received great benefit from the list and would like to see Mike (and others, if you've got a donate button let me know!) benefit, too. I would have that he's suffering financially to help me prosper... Some good ideas have been discussed...so I'll shut up now. Just don't forget, everyone, to *voluntarily* donate! Rick From: Charlie Griefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:49 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick...couple of points 1) can we move this to cf-community? 2) did Mike even say he is considering charging for the list? You seem to be fighting for something that the list owner isn't even considering implementing. 3) can we move this to cf-community? On 4/21/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I can understand someone's reluctance to pay if really all they do is give answers to others and don't get answers to questions. But if you ever get answers you really need why wouldn't you be willing to help pay for the work that's done to bring you those answers? And if there are so many other resources that are as good as this one, then why participate in this one? I would have to cut something out... takes too long to go through all the mail! And...for info's sake...what other resources can you point out that I could use that are as rich with information, convenient, and have such good participation? Just trying to understand your perspective Rick From: Aaron Rouse Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:17 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? There are plenty of free sources of information out there that this very list offers. There is no way I'd pay to subscribe to a mailing list. Now if I were to find that I was greatly benifiting from it, I would make a donation to whoever maintained it. I have done donations in the past to things that offered me free help that I in turn benifited from in my work. Now if a place put in advertisement links for something I typed then I might think twice about putting postings there. I am on a car forum that does this and rarely post on it these days but my rare postings have nothing to do with their advertisements. On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: I would not pay a subscription to a list I think you might change your mind if all lists gave the choice of buying a subscription or acceptads and those were the only ones around. That's like saying to Mike...hey, I'm perfectly willing to participate and benefit from your work, but not if you're going to benefit... ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203855 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Sure...$10 to Mike will get me to shutup... ;o) Rick From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:55 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? If I pay will someone kill this thread...pretty plz!! ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203856 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. What exactly would someone be paying for? Are they just paying to be on a list because someone has a dedicated connection to the internet and setup a list manager on it? Are they paying because gurus are paid to be on the list and offer help to anyone? Are they paying because gurus are allowed on for free? Charging at this point in time would simply encourage others to start their own lists and would de-centralize the user base. I can understand someone's reluctance to pay if really all they do is give answers to others and don't get answers to questions. But if you ever get answers you really need why wouldn't you be willing to help pay for the work that's done to bring you those answers? And if there are so many other resources that are as good as this one, then why participate in this one? I would have to cut something out... takes too long to go through all the mail! I do not go through all my email, I participate in many mailing lists and forums though. Sometimes asking questions, sometimes reading or sometimes just as a subscriber. And...for info's sake...what other resources can you point out that I could use that are as rich with information, convenient, and have such good participation? As an example, I asked a question on here about CFLDAP and the problems we were having with it. I did not get much response from this list, I asked the same question in IRC and got a very good response(I still have no solution though other than going back to CF5). Then there are existing contacts I have made over the years. I have numerous people I stay in touch with in IMs and emails. Local CFUGs usually have mailing lists that while maybe are not high trafficed they do tend to have highly skilled people on them willing to help. My primary contract is at a company that has an internal CF mailing list full of people willing to help. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203858 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
LOL!! Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203862 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
see.. I knew there was a revenue stream in there. And yes, I am shutting up now :) Dana On 4/21/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure...$10 to Mike will get me to shutup... ;o) Rick From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:55 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? If I pay will someone kill this thread...pretty plz!! ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203866 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I certainly understand your perspective. If I didn't benefit, I wouldn't pay to be on here, either... Rick From: Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:01 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. What exactly would someone be paying for? Are they just paying to be on a list because someone has a dedicated connection to the internet and setup a list manager on it? Are they paying because gurus are paid to be on the list and offer help to anyone? Are they paying because gurus are allowed on for free? Charging at this point in time would simply encourage others to start their own lists and would de-centralize the user base. I can understand someone's reluctance to pay if really all they do is give answers to others and don't get answers to questions. But if you ever get answers you really need why wouldn't you be willing to help pay for the work that's done to bring you those answers? And if there are so many other resources that are as good as this one, then why participate in this one? I would have to cut something out... takes too long to go through all the mail! I do not go through all my email, I participate in many mailing lists and forums though. Sometimes asking questions, sometimes reading or sometimes just as a subscriber. And...for info's sake...what other resources can you point out that I could use that are as rich with information, convenient, and have such good participation? As an example, I asked a question on here about CFLDAP and the problems we were having with it. I did not get much response from this list, I asked the same question in IRC and got a very good response(I still have no solution though other than going back to CF5). Then there are existing contacts I have made over the years. I have numerous people I stay in touch with in IMs and emails. Local CFUGs usually have mailing lists that while maybe are not high trafficed they do tend to have highly skilled people on them willing to help. My primary contract is at a company that has an internal CF mailing list full of people willing to help. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203869 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. If you do not think you're benefitting from this list then why continue to subscribe? I am sure that it would be no great disaster for the rest of us. The thing is that its also a two way street, you need to contribute as well as consume. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203877 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Did you not see the word enough Perhaps you are reading a little too far into the words I pick. Or perhaps you can not understand that I feel I would need to gain a certain amount out of something that normally can be found free to then justify paying for it. Anything offered on this list can be found elsewhere, maybe not in one centralized spot but still elsewhere. To go and charge for use of the list would very likely de-centralize information here since some would rather not pay. At that point what exactly would you be paying for? I may not contribute a lot to this list but I do know I contribute more than I ask of it. So really it would come down to if I paid to be here, I would be paying to answer a few questions here and there. So everyone who thinks it would be fine to pay admission for this list, how much have you donated over the years of using it? On 4/21/05, Larry Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. If you do not think you're benefitting from this list then why continue to subscribe? I am sure that it would be no great disaster for the rest of us. The thing is that its also a two way street, you need to contribute as well as consume. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203882 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
The point is that you *do* find this list a better source of information and assistance than you do other resources...you stated that it was more centralized...meaning you can get what you need easier and quicker...if it weren't of benefit to you, you wouldn't use it. Rick From: Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:09 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Did you not see the word enough Perhaps you are reading a little too far into the words I pick. Or perhaps you can not understand that I feel I would need to gain a certain amount out of something that normally can be found free to then justify paying for it. Anything offered on this list can be found elsewhere, maybe not in one centralized spot but still elsewhere. To go and charge for use of the list would very likely de-centralize information here since some would rather not pay. At that point what exactly would you be paying for? I may not contribute a lot to this list but I do know I contribute more than I ask of it. So really it would come down to if I paid to be here, I would be paying to answer a few questions here and there. So everyone who thinks it would be fine to pay admission for this list, how much have you donated over the years of using it? On 4/21/05, Larry Lyons wrote: Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. If you do not think you're benefitting from this list then why continue to subscribe? I am sure that it would be no great disaster for the rest of us. The thing is that its also a two way street, you need to contribute as well as consume. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203886 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
How much have you donated to be on this list over the entire time you have been on it? I randomly get on this list to help people with quick questions more than anything else. I rarely post questions to it. Clearly it is not 100% centralized or I would not maintain a presense in multiple other places. My point on centralization is that if it were to all the sudden cost money to be here, is it all the sudden would drive people away. On 4/21/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The point is that you *do* find this list a better source of information and assistance than you do other resources...you stated that it was more centralized...meaning you can get what you need easier and quicker...if it weren't of benefit to you, you wouldn't use it. Rick ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203889 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Aaron Rouse wrote: I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. Larry Lyons wrote: If you do not think you're benefitting from this list then why continue to subscribe? I am sure that it would be no great disaster for the rest of us. The thing is that its also a two way street, you need to contribute as well as consume. What it comes down to is, you don't HAVE to do anything to be on this list. Just because someone is not a prolific poster doesn't mean they don't belong. Did you ever stop to think that many people on this list donate in different ways to this cause? Just because we aren't singing the praises of a fee-based list and whiping drool off our faces with addled glee when every piece of OT tripe comes our way doesn't mean we don't care. Andy ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203910 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I know this is off topic - but I wanted to point out that at least for me, I subscribe to this list to get help when I can't figure out how to do something with CF. Why I do things with CF is that it was the easiest way for me to give back to the community - not this community, here I really don't often have much to offer, not an expert programmer. The community I serve is the hiking community, and I am very driven to get as many people into the hills as a means of preservation as possible. I just want to point out that some things are done for the love of it, and some not. Just as this list serves me, I serve another, and so on, and so on. I would hate to see the list become a community I can't afford, or worse still choose not to afford - I really like it very much, and the people who over the years have been so helpful to me. Thank you all :-) John Interested in Hiking in Washington State? Check out http://www.attrition.ws -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Aaron Rouse wrote: I do not feel I benifit enough from this list to warrant paying to be on it. Matter of fact I am not 100% sure I have benifited from this list in quite sometime. I know the last couple of questions I posted I never got a complete answer from the list, and if I was paying to be on this list then I would start to get irritated if the answers were no better than I could get elsewhere or if they were lesser which is the case at times. Larry Lyons wrote: If you do not think you're benefitting from this list then why continue to subscribe? I am sure that it would be no great disaster for the rest of us. The thing is that its also a two way street, you need to contribute as well as consume. What it comes down to is, you don't HAVE to do anything to be on this list. Just because someone is not a prolific poster doesn't mean they don't belong. Did you ever stop to think that many people on this list donate in different ways to this cause? Just because we aren't singing the praises of a fee-based list and whiping drool off our faces with addled glee when every piece of OT tripe comes our way doesn't mean we don't care. Andy ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203924 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Dont ask to move it to community and then ask a question... yes Mike did ask if we would be willing to pay a small fee if there was one. Not that he plans to do so but just to find out what we thought -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick...couple of points 1) can we move this to cf-community? 2) did Mike even say he is considering charging for the list? You seem to be fighting for something that the list owner isn't even considering implementing. 3) can we move this to cf-community? On 4/21/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is your unwillingness to pay a subscription based on the fact that you feel like you don't benefit from the list? Or that you give more to the list than you take? I can understand someone's reluctance to pay if really all they do is give answers to others and don't get answers to questions. But if you ever get answers you really need why wouldn't you be willing to help pay for the work that's done to bring you those answers? And if there are so many other resources that are as good as this one, then why participate in this one? I would have to cut something out... takes too long to go through all the mail! And...for info's sake...what other resources can you point out that I could use that are as rich with information, convenient, and have such good participation? Just trying to understand your perspective Rick From: Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:17 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? There are plenty of free sources of information out there that this very list offers. There is no way I'd pay to subscribe to a mailing list. Now if I were to find that I was greatly benifiting from it, I would make a donation to whoever maintained it. I have done donations in the past to things that offered me free help that I in turn benifited from in my work. Now if a place put in advertisement links for something I typed then I might think twice about putting postings there. I am on a car forum that does this and rarely post on it these days but my rare postings have nothing to do with their advertisements. On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: I would not pay a subscription to a list I think you might change your mind if all lists gave the choice of buying a subscription or acceptads and those were the only ones around. That's like saying to Mike...hey, I'm perfectly willing to participate and benefit from your work, but not if you're going to benefit... ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203925 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
We all gain quite a lot out of using HOF and these lists as well as the archives. HOF certainly has the right to try and make a few bucks with advertising on the site. Surely you don't really have a problem with that, do you? --Ferg -Original Message- From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? On the web archive I noticed that certain words are underlined and linked to ads, very much like M$'s smart tags. Is this something that HOF as implemented, and how can I turn it off? larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203627 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
On the web archive I noticed that certain words are underlined and linked to ads, very much like M$'s smart tags. Is this something that HOF as implemented, and how can I turn it off? larry Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://www.sys-con.com/author/?id=4806 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203628 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Yes, the list does restrict HTML style email (it's uber bulky for no reason and can easily contain security risks). Any green link in page content is one of these ad links. Truth be told, while they are kind of cute, there just isn't as many advertisers with this company as say Google or Kanoodle. I'm trying to balance the site content with some advertising in such a way that the advertising is 'off to the side' (the dark blue bar) or only on mouse over. Something that people can make use of if they want but will not affect their usage of the site. Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://www.sys-con.com/author/?id=4806 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203631 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Michael Dinowitz wrote: It's an advertiser that I'm trying out and it's based on javascript and CSS. If people do find it overly intrusive I'll rethink it. I couldn't find any links (yet), where can we see it? Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203632 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203633 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/forumid:4/threadid:39 687 second post -- the word IDE -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Michael Dinowitz wrote: It's an advertiser that I'm trying out and it's based on javascript and CSS. If people do find it overly intrusive I'll rethink it. I couldn't find any links (yet), where can we see it? Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203634 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Ken Ferguson wrote: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/forumid:4/threadid:39687 second post -- the word IDE IE gives a javascript error and FF shows nothing. But yes, I find it overly intrusive if links I never endorsed suddenly show up in messages I wrote. Jochem ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203635 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Hm. So far the response has been negative and I think I'll be removing them. Anyone know of a good advertising account rep who'd be willing to gather (and bill) advertising for HoF on a commission basis? :) BTW, as long as your using the interface, have you tried out the new thread labeling or random thread button? What do you think? Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203636 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
i dont find it OVER INTRUSIVE, apart from the annoying mousovers... thats the OVER INTRUSIVE part to me. -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com ...straight cash homey - randy moss, now a raider ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203637 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
They dont bother me at all. If they did, they are easily turned off client side. (hint: host file) Dinowitz has put in a lot of time and work to make these CF lists what they are. The mailing lists alone are enough to keep us all in touch with one another but the site and its archives is a big bonus. You could always just keep every email in your inbox for 'archives' if you dont want to see the ads. We arent asked to pay for our subscriptions and we cant ask Michael to pay for keeping it up. So by all means, put ads anywhere and everywhere you want on the site if it means income to keep these lists going! -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:17 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? It's an advertiser that I'm trying out and it's based on javascript and CSS. If people do find it overly intrusive I'll rethink it. On the web archive I noticed that certain words are underlined and linked to ads, very much like M$'s smart tags. Is this something that HOF as implemented, and how can I turn it off? larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203638 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Maybe Michael could introduce a subscription service with a small fee, so people have the choice to turn of ads when they pay for it. It imho also gives something back to Michael for his hard work. Micha. From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 4/20/2005 3:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203640 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Hm. So far the response has been negative and I think I'll be removing them. Anyone know of a good advertising account rep who'd be willing to gather (and bill) advertising for HoF on a commission basis? :) BTW, as long as your using the interface, have you tried out the new thread labeling or random thread button? What do you think? I thought it was kind of interesting to read this page: http://itxt2.us.intellitxt.com/whatisIntelliTXT.asp?ipid=1619cc=us That's what comes up when you click on the What's This in one of the JS mouseovers. Personally I'm all for you making some cash from the content on HoF; if there's a way to change the delay time on the JS popup or allow users the ability to selectively disable it that might be a better option... don't shoot the horse just because it tripped! Hatton ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203641 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
So far the response has been negative well, its going to be, no one really likes advertising, but my opinion is: oh boo hoo, its only some advertising links. This is a very small intrusion for the use of a FREE service. anyone who doesnt like it is welcome to setup, host and maintain their own mailing list -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 April 2005 14:36 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Hm. So far the response has been negative and I think I'll be removing them. Anyone know of a good advertising account rep who'd be willing to gather (and bill) advertising for HoF on a commission basis? :) BTW, as long as your using the interface, have you tried out the new thread labeling or random thread button? What do you think? Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203644 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Michael Dinowitz wrote: Hm. So far the response has been negative and I think I'll be removing them. Anyone know of a good advertising account rep who'd be willing to gather (and bill) advertising for HoF on a commission basis? :) Instead of using the contextual text links for advertising, what's wrong with just the Ads by Ggle over on the right? I've tried this on a site for a not-for-profit dance company, and while they're not getting rich, they are covering the cost of having the site hosted each month. Nobody has complained... -- --- Les Mizzell ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203645 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Google adsense is paying well for me on one of my personal sites too. -Original Message- From: Les Mizzell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2005 10:32 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Michael Dinowitz wrote: Hm. So far the response has been negative and I think I'll be removing them. Anyone know of a good advertising account rep who'd be willing to gather (and bill) advertising for HoF on a commission basis? :) Instead of using the contextual text links for advertising, what's wrong with just the Ads by Ggle over on the right? I've tried this on a site for a not-for-profit dance company, and while they're not getting rich, they are covering the cost of having the site hosted each month. Nobody has complained... ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203646 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
-Original Message- From: Ewok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? They don't bother me at all. If they did, they are easily turned off client side. (hint: host file) They don't bother me at all either. They're clearly not real links and are subtle enough to be ignored. My only concern would be just that: I think they'll be completely ignored and simply not generate any revenue (unless you paid for the eyeballs and not just the clicks, but I doubt that). Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203647 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
If these links are CSS based, they should easily be over ridden by a personal style sheet, shouldn't they? -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? i dont find it OVER INTRUSIVE, apart from the annoying mousovers... thats the OVER INTRUSIVE part to me. -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com ...straight cash homey - randy moss, now a raider ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203648 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I've been thinking of a small fee for the ability to 'turn off' ads and maybe some other added features. Problem is that I hate charging people and want to give all the features directly. I'll rethink it all. Maybe Michael could introduce a subscription service with a small fee, so people have the choice to turn of ads when they pay for it. It imho also gives something back to Michael for his hard work. Micha. From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 4/20/2005 3:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203649 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
My opinion is you can do anything with *your* list that you like, Michael...I certainly don't mind you making all the money you can on it, especially with something as inobtrusive as links to keywords. Anyone who doesn't like you trying to make money off the list to help support it, or even to get rich from, can start a drive to make this a subscription only list to help pay for it. And anyone who doesn't like the way your raise funds for the list should be sending in a substantial contribution every month to pay you back for the very valuable service you and this list provide. Keep up the good work! Rick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Dinowitz) Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:14 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? It's an advertiser that I'm trying out and it's based on javascript and CSS. If people do find it overly intrusive I'll rethink it. On the web archive I noticed that certain words are underlined and linked to ads, very much like M$'s smart tags. Is this something that HOF as implemented, and how can I turn it off? larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203650 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
It would be funny to see one of Dave's I hate f*#%$ Microsoft!! posts advertising a Microsoft product without his permission :O ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203651 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
There is a balance between doing anything I want and doing things that will alienate list members. In the past I had graphic banner ads on the list emails. Some did not like it and were vocal about it (even though there was a non-graphic version of the emails). Some left. In the end, I removed them as they just did more 'harm' than good. Having happy and useful people on the lists is more important than email banners. I'm going to leave this advertising in for a few more days and then re-evaluate it. If it causes more 'harm' than good, then out it goes. My opinion is you can do anything with *your* list that you like, Michael...I certainly don't mind you making all the money you can on it, especially with something as inobtrusive as links to keywords. Anyone who doesn't like you trying to make money off the list to help support it, or even to get rich from, can start a drive to make this a subscription only list to help pay for it. And anyone who doesn't like the way your raise funds for the list should be sending in a substantial contribution every month to pay you back for the very valuable service you and this list provide. Keep up the good work! Rick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Dinowitz) Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:14 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? It's an advertiser that I'm trying out and it's based on javascript and CSS. If people do find it overly intrusive I'll rethink it. On the web archive I noticed that certain words are underlined and linked to ads, very much like M$'s smart tags. Is this something that HOF as implemented, and how can I turn it off? larry ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203652 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Now, a truly clever keyword advertising system would detect phrases like I hate or sucks near Microsoft and link those to RedHat, MySQL, StarOffice, Linspire, www.sub300.com, or something along those lines. Matt Osbun Web Developer Health Systems, International -Original Message- From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? It would be funny to see one of Dave's I hate f*#%$ Microsoft!! posts advertising a Microsoft product without his permission :O ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203655 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Now, that's the best idea I've heard... Let people pay for a subscription for no ads, otherwise ads are turned on...and if anyone doesn't want links in their posts, they have the option not to post (and I don't know of anyone whose input this list can't survive without), or perhaps Michael could set a flag of some sort on the poster's account to stop the links. Of course, if the poster decided to opt out of having their posts linked, they should have to pay the subscription fee to participate... Rick From: Micha Schopman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Maybe Michael could introduce a subscription service with a small fee, so people have the choice to turn of ads when they pay for it. It imho also gives something back to Michael for his hard work. Micha. From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 4/20/2005 3:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203660 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Michael... Unless you're independently wealthy and can afford to support everyone who participates in this list and makes a living off of the information we gather here, I think you can feel justified in making money off of this list. I have contributed (a tiny amount, embarrassingly) to the support of the list, but certainly wouldn't mind paying a subscription fee of, say $10 per month, to participate. It's like having a panel of experts at your beck-and-call to answer questions about what I'm trying to accomplish. Imagine what Macromedia (or should I say, Adobe) would charge for the kind of support that this list provides, immediately, I might add... A worker is worth his wages... and you're definitely doing a good work, Michael... Rick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Dinowitz) Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:51 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I've been thinking of a small fee for the ability to 'turn off' ads and maybe some other added features. Problem is that I hate charging people and want to give all the features directly. I'll rethink it all. Maybe Michael could introduce a subscription service with a small fee, so people have the choice to turn of ads when they pay for it. It imho also gives something back to Michael for his hard work. Micha. From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 4/20/2005 3:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Why not just ignore them? Afaik people don't really send html email to the HOF lists, so if text in the message is linked in the archive, it's not because the author linked it and you can assume it's an advertisement (unless the text of the link is a url). Not all use the mailing list, quite a few people use the web interface where the problem is. Its difficult to ignore the links in certain notes when in a paragraph with CF mentioned multiple times times gets linked each and every time, and most of those links tend to be irrelevant. I have no problems with targeted adverts on the side and top, but the highlighted links in green in the text itself degrades how easily the text can be read. larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203665 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
You get to see just how deeply someone's principle's run when they start getting paid to compromise them... Rick From: James Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:53 AM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? It would be funny to see one of Dave's I hate f*#%$ Microsoft!! posts advertising a Microsoft product without his permission :O ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203666 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Rick Faircloth wrote: Now, that's the best idea I've heard... Let people pay for a subscription for no ads, otherwise ads are turned on...and if anyone doesn't want links in their posts, they have the option not to post (and I don't know of anyone whose input this list can't survive without), or perhaps Michael could set a flag of some sort on the poster's account to stop the links. Of course, if the poster decided to opt out of having their posts linked, they should have to pay the subscription fee to participate... If Michael decides so I am out. And I am willing to pull the copyright card to prevent links being inserted into my email. Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. But my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203671 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I would not mind at all paying a subscription per month. This list has provided me with great answers through the years. Just reading the questions and answers of others have been great for my own knowledge base. - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:20 PM Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick Faircloth wrote: Now, that's the best idea I've heard... Let people pay for a subscription for no ads, otherwise ads are turned on...and if anyone doesn't want links in their posts, they have the option not to post (and I don't know of anyone whose input this list can't survive without), or perhaps Michael could set a flag of some sort on the poster's account to stop the links. Of course, if the poster decided to opt out of having their posts linked, they should have to pay the subscription fee to participate... If Michael decides so I am out. And I am willing to pull the copyright card to prevent links being inserted into my email. Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. But my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203673 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
-Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:21 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick Faircloth wrote: Now, that's the best idea I've heard... Let people pay for a subscription for no ads, otherwise ads are turned on...and if anyone doesn't want links in their posts, they have the option not to post (and I don't know of anyone whose input this list can't survive without), or perhaps Michael could set a flag of some sort on the poster's account to stop the links. Of course, if the poster decided to opt out of having their posts linked, they should have to pay the subscription fee to participate... If Michael decides so I am out. And I am willing to pull the copyright card to prevent links being inserted into my email. Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. But my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself. That's your prerogative, of course - but I wouldn't fall under the delusion that you've got all that many legal rights here. You've published to a public message board: you've legally given Mike an unregulated license to your content. You can get mad, but legally you've got no leg to stand on. Common-sensically it's also clear that those links are not part of the original posters material (I would prefer this to be ever more apparent honestly, but it's fairly clear as it is). You would only have a case if you could prove that the information added could be construed as misrepresentation of your work or libel. If that were the case you MIGHT have a case. For example if Mike were to list all your posts as authored by another person, then you might have a case. Or if he were to change to the content to alter the meaning - then you might have a case. For the most part you have to prove either blatant incompetence or clear malicious intent. I'm really not trying to start an argument (I truly, honestly respect your opinion on this). I'm just trying to make clear that you give away a large part of your soul when you post to public sources. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203674 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
pull the copyright card my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself LMAO! Did you notice these links at the bottom of your email Jochem? Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203671 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=16505.14053.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54 I assume you didnt type them in yourself and will now be getting lawyered up? hahaha! -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 April 2005 17:21 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick Faircloth wrote: Now, that's the best idea I've heard... Let people pay for a subscription for no ads, otherwise ads are turned on...and if anyone doesn't want links in their posts, they have the option not to post (and I don't know of anyone whose input this list can't survive without), or perhaps Michael could set a flag of some sort on the poster's account to stop the links. Of course, if the poster decided to opt out of having their posts linked, they should have to pay the subscription fee to participate... If Michael decides so I am out. And I am willing to pull the copyright card to prevent links being inserted into my email. Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. But my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203675 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Jochem... Why is protecting your work (personally, I wouldn't classify answering questions people post to this list as work) in an absolutely unchanged state so important to you? And, personally, (and I know the law is probably against me on this one), I think that once a person responds to a public list that is owned and operated by someone else, the response you make should become part of the public domain...no longer personal, private property. But, a sincere question, because I may be missing something important in this discussion...I'm just curious why you're so determined to prevent alternation to your comments? Is it that the links may link your work to something undesirable? or ...? Rick From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:19 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick Faircloth wrote: Now, that's the best idea I've heard... Let people pay for a subscription for no ads, otherwise ads are turned on...and if anyone doesn't want links in their posts, they have the option not to post (and I don't know of anyone whose input this list can't survive without), or perhaps Michael could set a flag of some sort on the poster's account to stop the links. Of course, if the poster decided to opt out of having their posts linked, they should have to pay the subscription fee to participate... If Michael decides so I am out. And I am willing to pull the copyright card to prevent links being inserted into my email. Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. But my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203677 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Kerry wrote: pull the copyright card my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself Did you notice these links at the bottom of your email Jochem? Did you read my email? Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203678 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. -Adam On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael... Unless you're independently wealthy and can afford to support everyone who participates in this list and makes a living off of the information we gather here, I think you can feel justified in making money off of this list. I have contributed (a tiny amount, embarrassingly) to the support of the list, but certainly wouldn't mind paying a subscription fee of, say $10 per month, to participate. It's like having a panel of experts at your beck-and-call to answer questions about what I'm trying to accomplish. Imagine what Macromedia (or should I say, Adobe) would charge for the kind of support that this list provides, immediately, I might add... A worker is worth his wages... and you're definitely doing a good work, Michael... Rick ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203679 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I feel that if it went to a subscription fee (which I think it should), it would raise the level of discussion and it would allow Michael to be a little more aggressive to what is acceptable. -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203682 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. The only ones to drop from the list would be those who thought they knew so much that they would rarely or never have a question that they needed an answer to, or those who already know everything and don't care to help others... As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. True...but no community's perfect... I surely not going to pay for it. Do you gain so little from participating in the list and having access to the archives that it wouldn't be worth $10 a month? Rick From: Adrocknaphobia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:46 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. -Adam On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: Michael... Unless you're independently wealthy and can afford to support everyone who participates in this list and makes a living off of the information we gather here, I think you can feel justified in making money off of this list. I have contributed (a tiny amount, embarrassingly) to the support of the list, but certainly wouldn't mind paying a subscription fee of, say $10 per month, to participate. It's like having a panel of experts at your beck-and-call to answer questions about what I'm trying to accomplish. Imagine what Macromedia (or should I say, Adobe) would charge for the kind of support that this list provides, immediately, I might add... A worker is worth his wages... and you're definitely doing a good work, Michael... Rick ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203684 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
If it did go to a subscription basis, I think there would be some immediate dropoff in existing users and the new users would only trickle in, thereby reducing the value of this list for both advertising and troubleshooting. More experienced users would not need to be a part of the list and newbies would not have the knowledge of the experienced users to draw from. - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Bryan F. Hogan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I feel that if it went to a subscription fee (which I think it should), it would raise the level of discussion and it would allow Michael to be a little more aggressive to what is acceptable. -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203685 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Firefox's AdBlock extension is the king of ending web annoyances. block: *intellitxt* -nathan strutz Jochem van Dieten wrote: Ken Ferguson wrote: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/messages.cfm/forumid:4/threadid:39687 second post -- the word IDE IE gives a javascript error and FF shows nothing. But yes, I find it overly intrusive if links I never endorsed suddenly show up in messages I wrote. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203686 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Now, don't get me wrong, I like the ads idea best, saves me money, makes money for Michael and for his advertisers... win, win, win... And I like the idea of subscriptions fine, but second to the advertisements...but I think if Michael went to subscriptions people might take even more liberty with the list than they do now. When people start paying, they start to feel they have more rights to usage. And, I really doubt there would be a big drop in the participants. Perhaps in the subscribers, but not those who actively participate by only answering questions...they do that many times to boost an ego, perhaps, and certainly not those, like myself, who ask far more questions than they answer. (Mostly because there are far more qualified people to answer than me...) But, concerning content think the list is fine as it is...I like reading about other's thoughts on hot topics, such as the merger, which could have an affect on everyone. It only takes me second to delete messages in which I have no interest...even messages that are strictly about coding. Rick From: Bryan F. Hogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:56 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I feel that if it went to a subscription fee (which I think it should), it would raise the level of discussion and it would allow Michael to be a little more aggressive to what is acceptable. -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203687 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. I believe the suggestion was to have it be an optional subscription, if you don't want the links. I think that's a reasonable compromise, although $10 a month seems pretty high to me just to not have ads. Mary Jo Sminkey www.cfwebstore.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203689 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Rick Faircloth wrote: Why is protecting your work (personally, I wouldn't classify answering questions people post to this list as work) in an absolutely unchanged state so important to you? The imperative is not work but original work because that is a key concept in copyright law. Also, it doesn't have to be absolutely unchanged. I don't have a problem with reformatting or representing in an indented thread. I would for instance even welcome the archives reflowing messages as per RFC 3676. But if I write something on a subject and recommend vendor X, I consider it a substantial change if suddenly every occurence of subject were to be linked to vendor Y. A vendor which I may not know or worse, have bad experiences with. And, personally, (and I know the law is probably against me on this one), I think that once a person responds to a public list that is owned and operated by someone else, the response you make should become part of the public domain...no longer personal, private property. The law is not entirely against you, but you don't forfeit all rights*. Sending a message to a public mailinglist pretty much means you give people the right to use that message. But that does not include the right to substantially alter the message while still representing it as being written by me. If you do that by accident over the list now you get an offlist request to be more carefull. Jochem *Some IETF mailinglists I am on have you agree to another clause when you sign up that does make it official that you forfeit pretty much all rights, which does make sense when you are discussing future standards that need to be without strings for implementers. But that is something you agree to beforehand. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203691 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
That's probably true with the subscription approach. Who likes paying to provide value to something? That's why I think the ad approach is better. But, if the only way for it to pay off is putting links in the content, then it should go that way. This list should not be treated as open source. It's a valuable tool in the took kit of every developer. It helps to sharpen the knowledge of even those who just answer questions. How much would we have to pay for support from companies, or even worse for books, who content and help is eternally limited at purchase, for the kind of support we get here? It's hard to believe anyone who makes a living from the kind of information that is provided here would begrudge Michael $10, or whatever, per month in support. Personally, I would hope he could be a very wealthy person for what he provides. It's sad that anyone would complain about paying about 30 cents a day... Rick From: Matthew Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:03 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? If it did go to a subscription basis, I think there would be some immediate dropoff in existing users and the new users would only trickle in, thereby reducing the value of this list for both advertising and troubleshooting. More experienced users would not need to be a part of the list and newbies would not have the knowledge of the experienced users to draw from. - Matt Small -Original Message- From: Bryan F. Hogan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I feel that if it went to a subscription fee (which I think it should), it would raise the level of discussion and it would allow Michael to be a little more aggressive to what is acceptable. -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203693 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
-Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? If it did go to a subscription basis, I think there would be some immediate dropoff in existing users and the new users would only trickle in, thereby reducing the value of this list for both advertising and troubleshooting. More experienced users would not need to be a part of the list and newbies would not have the knowledge of the experienced users to draw from. Just so we're clear - Mike's never said that the list would be paid subscriber only. His comments have always been of the if I offered these EXTRAs, would you pay a little. In other words, as far as what's been said so far, the current level of free service wouldn't change - there were simply be an option for more services for a small fee. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203694 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
But I don't think it's a proper perspective to look at the $10 as paying for ad free support...it's more for the value of what you glean from participation, directly or indirectly. If this list didn't exist, and a group of qualified experts put up a site to be at my beck-and-call 24/7, I'd gladly pay $10 per month for that support. Why not just pay to participate in the list...ads or not? Don't you pay for any other support, like web hosting, for-pay product support calls, books, seminars, etc. No on complains when they have to pay for that...( or perhaps a few...) Providing web-hosting amounts to about the same thing as running this list...just keep the hardware and software running...the only difference is that Michael doesn't send out invoices...or charge a credit card. Very generous, Michael... Rick From: Mary Jo Sminkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:10 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. I believe the suggestion was to have it be an optional subscription, if you don't want the links. I think that's a reasonable compromise, although $10 a month seems pretty high to me just to not have ads. Mary Jo Sminkey www.cfwebstore.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203695 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
$20 bucks a year, from the 2000+ people... thats a nice chunk of change for mike for this? yes? I believe the suggestion was to have it be an optional subscription, if you don't want the links. I think that's a reasonable compromise, although $10 a month seems pretty high to me just to not have ads. Mary Jo Sminkey www.cfwebstore.com tony ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203696 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
But if I write something on a subject and recommend vendor X, I consider it a substantial change if suddenly every occurence of were to be linked to vendor Y. A vendor which I may not know or worse, have bad experiences with. Now, I could understand that being a problem. (I'd be very interested in knowing how this technology is implemented anywayhow it decides what will be linked to what, etc...) Sounds like an interesting way for an expert on a topic to make money off of their writing... There would have to be some guidelines for the linking... If I were to mention pornography in a message, I certainly would not want anything in my message to show up in Google or anywhere, with a link to a pornographic site! Rick From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:15 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Rick Faircloth wrote: Why is protecting your work (personally, I wouldn't classify answering questions people post to this list as work) in an absolutely unchanged state so important to you? The imperative is not work but original work because that is a key concept in copyright law. Also, it doesn't have to be absolutely unchanged. I don't have a problem with reformatting or representing in an indented thread. I would for instance even welcome the archives reflowing messages as per RFC 3676. But if I write something on a subject and recommend vendor X, I consider it a substantial change if suddenly every occurence of were to be linked to vendor Y. A vendor which I may not know or worse, have bad experiences with. And, personally, (and I know the law is probably against me on this one), I think that once a person responds to a public list that is owned and operated by someone else, the response you make should become part of the public domain...no longer personal, private property. The law is not entirely against you, but you don't forfeit all rights*. Sending a message to a public mailinglist pretty much means you give people the right to use that message. But that does not include the right to substantially alter the message while still representing it as being written by me. If you do that by accident over the list now you get an offlist request to be more carefull. Jochem *Some IETF mailinglists I am on have you agree to another clause when you sign up that does make it official that you forfeit pretty much all rights, which does make sense when you are discussing future standards that need to be without strings for implementers. But that is something you agree to beforehand. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203698 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Jochem van Dieten wrote: But if I write something on a subject and recommend vendor X, I consider it a substantial change if suddenly every occurence of subject were to be linked to vendor Y. A vendor which I may not know or worse, have bad experiences with. i'm with jochem on this. i've had that happen here w/newspaper reporters (back in the days when we were actively promoting GIS technology) so often that i refused to speak to any of them even when ordered to do so. not saying that would happen in this case but it's not a pleasant experience i'd forgo the privilege again if i could. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203700 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Anyone who would demand extras in order to pay would really be taking advantage of Mike... Getting good service and not being willing to pay for it is like treating the House of Fusion as a House of Ill-Repute and not expecting to pay for the goods. (We won't mention what that would make Mike... ;o) He's already trying to implement an archiving system that allows us to label information...strictly for our benefit. And he's done all that on his own dime... We're starting to sound like the Linux/Open-Source community around here, whining about every dime we have to spend, no matter what value we get. (Not directed at you, personally, Jim :o) Rick From: Jim Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? -Original Message- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? If it did go to a subscription basis, I think there would be some immediate dropoff in existing users and the new users would only trickle in, thereby reducing the value of this list for both advertising and troubleshooting. More experienced users would not need to be a part of the list and newbies would not have the knowledge of the experienced users to draw from. Just so we're clear - Mike's never said that the list would be paid subscriber only. His comments have always been of the if I offered these EXTRAs, would you pay a little. In other words, as far as what's been said so far, the current level of free service wouldn't change - there were simply be an option for more services for a small fee. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203701 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I've been thinking of a small fee for the ability to 'turn off' ads and maybe some other added features. Problem is that I hate charging people and want to give all the features directly. I'll rethink it all. That sounds like a very good idea. I'd pay for something like that. regards, larry ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203702 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
But...again...it's inappropriate to try to limit Mike on what he can make...that's absolutely none of our business...you should only ask if it's worth $20 a year for what you get from participating in the list. If Mike can make $40,000 plus by helping 2,000 people all year long...more power to him! I would be happy for him if he made $1,000,000 per year at $20 a year from us! Rick From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? $20 bucks a year, from the 2000+ people... thats a nice chunk of change for mike for this? yes? I believe the suggestion was to have it be an optional subscription, if you don't want the links. I think that's a reasonable compromise, although $10 a month seems pretty high to me just to not have ads. Mary Jo Sminkey www.cfwebstore.com tony ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203703 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
On 4/20/05, Adrocknaphobia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Woah. If this list went to a monthly/yearly subscription you can expect a severe drop in subscribers. Many times, especially the last few days, I've contemplated dropping of this list. As many people seem to confuse this list and thier own personal blog. In all honesty, if I cared about your opinions on the merger or whatever, I'd read you blog (Which I have no intrest in). I surely not going to pay for it. Some threads (like this one!!) do tend to go on a bit! Given how many 'free' (ad-supported) mailing list systems there are out there, I wonder how many would stay with HoF if it became a paid service and how many would feel inclined to set up [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead? Michael puts a lot of effort into HoF (and Fusion Authority, not forgetting Judith's major contributions too). We may not always like some specific thing he does with the lists but he's pretty good about listening to feedback. -- Sean A Corfield -- http://corfield.org/ Team Fusebox -- http://fusebox.org/ Got Gmail? -- I have 50, yes 50, invites to give away! If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203717 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only ones to drop from the list would be those who thought they knew so much that they would rarely or never have a question that they needed an answer to, or those who already know everything and don't care to help others... I disagree. I participate in a large number of mailing lists, learning from others as well as helping others. Those lists are all free. Some of them are also free of advertising. I give a lot of my time to participate in the community so it already 'costs' me - and, yes, I get value from it. I would not pay a subscription to a list - there's plenty of other free lists. I don't subscribe to Community MX (a paid service), I don't subscribe to any magazines (i.e., I don't pay - if a magazine wants to send me a free subscription I might accept... that's how I get InfoWorld and Software Development Magazine). -- Sean A Corfield -- http://corfield.org/ Team Fusebox -- http://fusebox.org/ Got Gmail? -- I have 50, yes 50, invites to give away! If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203719 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
-Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? $20 bucks a year, from the 2000+ people... thats a nice chunk of change for mike for this? yes? We've looked into this - you can't assume a 1:1 ratio if you went paid. Mike might easily lose 95% or more of his subscribers if he went pay-only. It's just a sad fact of the world. Jim Davis ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203721 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Jochem is correct here in that his email is his work even if it's posted to a public forum. While I do trim out extra quoted material and remove email addresses and the like, the original work sent by someone should be sacred. For this reason alone I should remove the advertising and I have. If Michael decides so I am out. And I am willing to pull the copyright card to prevent links being inserted into my email. Advertisements on the sides, above, below, popups, popunders are all no problem. But my email is my original work and I don't want links in there that I didn't put in there myself. Jochem ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203722 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
From: Sean Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] might accept... that's how I get InfoWorld and Software Development Magazine). Not to hijack the thread, but SD is a great read. Back to the regularly scheduled OT whirlwind post flurry. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203723 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
-Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Anyone who would demand extras in order to pay would really be taking advantage of Mike... Nobody is demanding anything - that's the idea that Mike put forth. His idea - not mine. ;^) I agree completely that the service as-is is worth paying for - unfortunately historically very few free services-turned-pay services have maintained more than a token number of their subscribers. Jim Davis ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203724 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
cheap bastards! We've looked into this - you can't assume a 1:1 ratio if you went paid. Mike might easily lose 95% or more of his subscribers if he went pay-only. It's just a sad fact of the world. -- tony Tony Weeg macromedia certified coldfusion mx developer email: tonyweeg [at] gmail [dot] com blog: http://www.revolutionwebdesign.com/blog/ cool tool: http://www.antiwrap.com ...straight cash homey - randy moss, now a raider ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203725 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Not really. There are lots of alternate resource out there. None as large or active as HoF, but they could be. I'd rather grow HoF in features than force people away with charging or things (like the inline ads) that turn them off. Rather than charge people or offer an ad free version of the site I'm just going to focus more on new features (such as the verity search for ALL threads) and hope to find an advertising rep to help out in that regard. That and find a second to bill the advertisers I currently have. :) cheap bastards! We've looked into this - you can't assume a 1:1 ratio if you went paid. Mike might easily lose 95% or more of his subscribers if he went pay-only. It's just a sad fact of the world. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203728 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's why I think the ad approach is better. But, if the only way for it to pay off is putting links in the content, then it should go that way. Yeah, I meant to say that I have no problem whatsoever with Michael putting ad links in the web archive. I think that if Michael can get money through ads in and around HoF and that helps him keep the system running, that's a good thing. That's why I contrasted the paid approach with the ad-supported services already out there. -- Sean A Corfield -- http://corfield.org/ Team Fusebox -- http://fusebox.org/ Got Gmail? -- I have 50, yes 50, invites to give away! If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203730 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I hate that Michael took the link ads off because of some whining. Oh this is mine oh I wrote it, I should have the final say wha wha Then write it on your own site and post links to it. That's not hard is it? I've come a looong way with not only CF but web dev in general since I joined this list and am forever grateful to those that have helped but even more so, I am grateful to Michael for all his hard work in giving me easy access to all your brains and still taking the time to post solutions to others' problems on the list. There is a donate link at the bottom of HoF. I used it because I almost feel guilty for everything I've gotten from this list without paying anything. Maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age. I definitely think that a paid subscription would run off a lot of people and keep the newcomers down. Personally, I think what I get (what we all get) here is worth some change per year and Ill just keep using the donate link for it. Hopefully this thread will make others realize ..how much work has gone into HoF ..how much BETTER it is than any other CF resource out there ..that it cant be free to keep it up and help compensate by donating as well I still think it's funny how a simple entry in a host file could have solved this whole thing. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? But...again...it's inappropriate to try to limit Mike on what he can make...that's absolutely none of our business...you should only ask if it's worth $20 a year for what you get from participating in the list. If Mike can make $40,000 plus by helping 2,000 people all year long...more power to him! I would be happy for him if he made $1,000,000 per year at $20 a year from us! Rick From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? $20 bucks a year, from the 2000+ people... thats a nice chunk of change for mike for this? yes? I believe the suggestion was to have it be an optional subscription, if you don't want the links. I think that's a reasonable compromise, although $10 a month seems pretty high to me just to not have ads. Mary Jo Sminkey www.cfwebstore.com tony ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203732 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Actually, I took them off for 2 reasons and 'whining' wasn't one of them. 1. This was an experiment to see if it was a valid form of advertising and how people would react. 2. It really is an invasion of the content that people put onto the site and it really isn't right of me to alter that content. I listened to peoples feedback on it. I balanced what they said and in the end, the rights of the site users were more important than advertising. I hate that Michael took the link ads off because of some whining. Oh this is mine oh I wrote it, I should have the final say wha wha ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203733 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I listened to peoples feedback on it. I balanced what they said and in the end, the rights of the site users were more important than advertising Yet another reason that HoF is better than the any other resource This was an experiment to see if it was a valid form of advertising and how people would react. It seemed to me that most people were in agreement with whatever you thought best for the list. In any event, ads or no ads, fees or no fees... Thanks for everything and I'll continue to donate from here on in. -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Actually, I took them off for 2 reasons and 'whining' wasn't one of them. 1. This was an experiment to see if it was a valid form of advertising and how people would react. 2. It really is an invasion of the content that people put onto the site and it really isn't right of me to alter that content. I listened to peoples feedback on it. I balanced what they said and in the end, the rights of the site users were more important than advertising. I hate that Michael took the link ads off because of some whining. Oh this is mine oh I wrote it, I should have the final say wha wha ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203734 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I would not pay a subscription to a list I think you might change your mind if all lists gave the choice of buying a subscription or accept ads and those were the only ones around. That's like saying to Mike...hey, I'm perfectly willing to participate and benefit from your work, but not if you're going to benefit... I get a lot of free magazines, too, but they are supported by advertising, like Mike is trying to do. If the advertisers in those magazines start dropping their advertising, we woulnd't be getting any free magazines... I get paid for my eyes on the magazine with the advertisements. All I'm saying is that Mike should be free to do advertising in a manner that makes money for him and no one on the list should demand a free ride... The best solution, I think at this point, is to have an advertising option...pay a subscription for advertising free list mail or accept whatever advertising he chooses to employ. Sounds fair to me... Rick From: Sean Corfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:50 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? On 4/20/05, Rick Faircloth wrote: The only ones to drop from the list would be those who thought they knew so much that they would rarely or never have a question that they needed an answer to, or those who already know everything and don't care to help others... I disagree. I participate in a large number of mailing lists, learning from others as well as helping others. Those lists are all free. Some of them are also free of advertising. I give a lot of my time to participate in the community so it already 'costs' me - and, yes, I get value from it. I would not pay a subscription to a list - there's plenty of other free lists. I don't subscribe to Community MX (a paid service), I don't subscribe to any magazines (i.e., I don't pay - if a magazine wants to send me a free subscription I might accept... that's how I get InfoWorld and Software Development Magazine). -- Sean A Corfield -- http://corfield.org/ Team Fusebox -- http://fusebox.org/ Got Gmail? -- I have 50, yes 50, invites to give away! If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203740 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
No, Mike...I really do have to agree with Tony...(maybe not quite the way he phrased it ;o), but people who demand something for nothing are nothing but cheap. Now, I understand Jochem's concern about his text being linked... I have some concerns about that, too. But anybody who says that they won't pay a penny for participating in something from which they derive value are nothing but freeloaders. I guess these same people insist that Ben Forta give them his books for free rather than pay for his time in writing them like you have to use your time to maintain this list *and* even add the extras, such as archives, etc. Time is valuable, no matter whose time it is and you should be compensated through ads or subscriptions... It's really sad... Rick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Dinowitz) Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:08 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Not really. There are lots of alternate resource out there. None as large or active as HoF, but they could be. I'd rather grow HoF in features than force people away with charging or things (like the inline ads) that turn them off. Rather than charge people or offer an ad free version of the site I'm just going to focus more on new features (such as the verity search for ALL threads) and hope to find an advertising rep to help out in that regard. That and find a second to bill the advertisers I currently have. :) cheap bastards! We've looked into this - you can't assume a 1:1 ratio if you went paid. Mike might easily lose 95% or more of his subscribers if he went pay-only. It's just a sad fact of the world. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203742 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Mike, perhaps you should run some polls for your subscribers to ask what the preferred method of handling this is, instead of pulling the ad links because of the major objections of one subscriber...this list can easily survive without a few players... Rick From: Ewok [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:42 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I hate that Michael took the link ads off because of some whining. Oh this is mine oh I wrote it, I should have the final say wha wha Then write it on your own site and post links to it. That's not hard is it? I've come a looong way with not only CF but web dev in general since I joined this list and am forever grateful to those that have helped but even more so, I am grateful to Michael for all his hard work in giving me easy access to all your brains and still taking the time to post solutions to others' problems on the list. There is a donate link at the bottom of HoF. I used it because I almost feel guilty for everything I've gotten from this list without paying anything. Maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age. I definitely think that a paid subscription would run off a lot of people and keep the newcomers down. Personally, I think what I get (what we all get) here is worth some change per year and Ill just keep using the donate link for it. Hopefully this thread will make others realize ...how much work has gone into HoF ...how much BETTER it is than any other CF resource out there ...that it can't be free to keep it up and help compensate by donating as well I still think it's funny how a simple entry in a host file could have solved this whole thing. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? But...again...it's inappropriate to try to limit Mike on what he can make...that's absolutely none of our business...you should only ask if it's worth $20 a year for what you get from participating in the list. If Mike can make $40,000 plus by helping 2,000 people all year long...more power to him! I would be happy for him if he made $1,000,000 per year at $20 a year from us! Rick From: Tony Weeg Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? $20 bucks a year, from the 2000+ people... thats a nice chunk of change for mike for this? yes? I believe the suggestion was to have it be an optional subscription, if you don't want the links. I think that's a reasonable compromise, although $10 a month seems pretty high to me just to not have ads. Mary Jo Sminkey www.cfwebstore.com tony ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203744 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
LOLI just had a thoughtmaybe Mike should make ppl pay to have their posts removed, too! You know, sometimes when we all say those dumb things that we wish we hadn't? Mike can charge $20, $50, $100, whatever to remove any post so that it won't be indexed forever by Google. Ray Rick Faircloth wrote: No, Mike...I really do have to agree with Tony...(maybe not quite the way he phrased it ;o), but people who demand something for nothing are nothing but cheap. Now, I understand Jochem's concern about his text being linked... I have some concerns about that, too. But anybody who says that they won't pay a penny for participating in something from which they derive value are nothing but freeloaders. I guess these same people insist that Ben Forta give them his books for free rather than pay for his time in writing them like you have to use your time to maintain this list *and* even add the extras, such as archives, etc. Time is valuable, no matter whose time it is and you should be compensated through ads or subscriptions... It's really sad... Rick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Dinowitz) Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:08 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Not really. There are lots of alternate resource out there. None as large or active as HoF, but they could be. I'd rather grow HoF in features than force people away with charging or things (like the inline ads) that turn them off. Rather than charge people or offer an ad free version of the site I'm just going to focus more on new features (such as the verity search for ALL threads) and hope to find an advertising rep to help out in that regard. That and find a second to bill the advertisers I currently have. :) cheap bastards! We've looked into this - you can't assume a 1:1 ratio if you went paid. Mike might easily lose 95% or more of his subscribers if he went pay-only. It's just a sad fact of the world. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203745 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... So...if you were listening to the *majority* of participants, you would have heard that your links (and other forms of advertising) and even subscriptions were supported. (I'd have to check closely on the support for subscriptions... that went both ways pretty good...) If you believe that taking off the content links is the right thing to do, then that's great. But you can't justify that because of what *most* comments here said... I'm standing up for your right to manage your list however you feel appropriate. I know you want to keep as many happy as possible, but I for one wouldn't be willing to go to the poor house to make everybody happy... But, take some polls, make your stand, and say goodbye to those who don't like it... Rick From: Ewok [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:00 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I listened to peoples feedback on it. I balanced what they said and in the end, the rights of the site users were more important than advertising Yet another reason that HoF is better than the any other resource This was an experiment to see if it was a valid form of advertising and how people would react. It seemed to me that most people were in agreement with whatever you thought best for the list. In any event, ads or no ads, fees or no fees... Thanks for everything and I'll continue to donate from here on in. -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Actually, I took them off for 2 reasons and 'whining' wasn't one of them. 1. This was an experiment to see if it was a valid form of advertising and how people would react. 2. It really is an invasion of the content that people put onto the site and it really isn't right of me to alter that content. I listened to peoples feedback on it. I balanced what they said and in the end, the rights of the site users were more important than advertising. I hate that Michael took the link ads off because of some whining. Oh this is mine oh I wrote it, I should have the final say wha wha ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203747 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Whoa! I'd have to take out a loan every month to cover my costs! :o) Rick From: Ray Champagne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:52 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? LOLI just had a thoughtmaybe Mike should make ppl pay to have their posts removed, too! You know, sometimes when we all say those dumb things that we wish we hadn't? Mike can charge $20, $50, $100, whatever to remove any post so that it won't be indexed forever by Google. Ray Rick Faircloth wrote: No, Mike...I really do have to agree with Tony...(maybe not quite the way he phrased it ;o), but people who demand something for nothing are nothing but cheap. Now, I understand Jochem's concern about his text being linked... I have some concerns about that, too. But anybody who says that they won't pay a penny for participating in something from which they derive value are nothing but freeloaders. I guess these same people insist that Ben Forta give them his books for free rather than pay for his time in writing them like you have to use your time to maintain this list *and* even add the extras, such as archives, etc. Time is valuable, no matter whose time it is and you should be compensated through ads or subscriptions... It's really sad... Rick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Dinowitz) Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? Not really. There are lots of alternate resource out there. None as large or active as HoF, but they could be. I'd rather grow HoF in features than force people away with charging or things (like the inline ads) that turn them off. Rather than charge people or offer an ad free version of the site I'm just going to focus more on new features (such as the verity search for ALL threads) and hope to find an advertising rep to help out in that regard. That and find a second to bill the advertisers I currently have. :) cheap bastards! We've looked into this - you can't assume a 1:1 ratio if you went paid. Mike might easily lose 95% or more of his subscribers if he went pay-only. It's just a sad fact of the world. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203753 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203755 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I assume you're talking about the links the in content...right? And, yes, the list would be reduced in it's effectiveness if Jochem and Paul were to withdraw, but it wouldn't necessarily mean the end of the list... I've been helped by both of them on numerous occasions and would hate to be without their input...but one or two can't hold a couple of thousand captive... Rick From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203762 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
Oh...and I meant to include you in that list of those whose input is very valuable to the list, Dave... Rick From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203763 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
A community is a strange and fragile thing, not exactly related to numbers. The loss of contributors such as those mentioned may very likely have an undesirable effect on the make-up of our community. I would point out that I wouldn't like my words to link to content that I didn't expressly desire them to as well, fwiw. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I assume you're talking about the links the in content...right? And, yes, the list would be reduced in it's effectiveness if Jochem and Paul were to withdraw, but it wouldn't necessarily mean the end of the list... I've been helped by both of them on numerous occasions and would hate to be without their input...but one or two can't hold a couple of thousand captive... Rick From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:25 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203769 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text?
I agree...I'd have the same concern about linking my words to content, but I wouldn't necessarily threaten legal action or pull out if it happened. I think what we need to be concerned about here is Michael. We all enjoy the benefits of CF help and even some fun, but this all comes at Michael's expense. No one has to be here but Michael. He has to spend more time than anyone, put up all the hardware and tech support for his operation. We owe him more than our gratitude, if he needs support. I'm going to try to donate some each month, even if it's $10, and be consistent. I make a lot more than that selling the products I create with help from Michael and those that participate on his list. I encourage everyone to join me in making a contribution each month. Imagine...if everyone gave just $1, with 2,000 subscribers, that would be $2,000 per month...not bad. Just $5 per month and he's got $10,000 per month...hmmmmaybe I should start a list...nhhh, I'm not diplomatic enough... Rick From: Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? A community is a strange and fragile thing, not exactly related to numbers. The loss of contributors such as those mentioned may very likely have an undesirable effect on the make-up of our community. I would point out that I wouldn't like my words to link to content that I didn't expressly desire them to as well, fwiw. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I assume you're talking about the links the in content...right? And, yes, the list would be reduced in it's effectiveness if Jochem and Paul were to withdraw, but it wouldn't necessarily mean the end of the list... I've been helped by both of them on numerous occasions and would hate to be without their input...but one or two can't hold a couple of thousand captive... Rick From: Dave Watts Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: wtf are those advertizing links in the text? I agree with Ewok, here...I only heard one legal threat from a participant and a concern about what the content would be linked to from me...didn't see one other objection... I would be forced to withdraw, and I imagine that lots of other people might be in the same boat for the same reason that Jochem and Paul Hastings mentioned. I've been through this before elsewhere, and I simply wouldn't be able to justify the risk. And it's worth pointing out that the list would be significantly less valuable if it loses the likes of Jochem and Paul. Between the two of them, they cover everything there is to know about RFCs and Unicode! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:203775 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
