RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
I just found www.fasthosts.co.uk. They can give you a dedicated machine, running as many domains as you like. You can add domains, email accounts, ODBC connections etc yourself through their control panel. They can provide either Windows machines (from 199 pounds p/m) or Linux ones (from 89 pounds p/m). If anyone has used them, can you comment on them? N On 08 Dec 2001 20:58:43 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Mike, Sounds like you're in exactly the opposite situation to me. I *don't* want to sell hosting - too much hassle. If someone's site goes down at 3am, the last person I want them calling is me. Dedicated Hosting in Australia kept trying to push us into a dedicated server for our clients, hinting that they would be more willing to accommodate special requirements if we had our own machine with them - which is why we don't use them anymore. Have you checked them out? I would recommend actually speaking to Domain Host though - Erez has been very helpful, setting up the Camtech merchant server for us for one of our clients without charging us extra. As a result, we are putting all our new Camtech clients on their servers. Their website is quite dodgy as I mentioned - there are a lot of things that aren't mentioned at all - like SQL Server which is something I would consider very important! They do seem willing to make an extra effort to accommodate web developers who might be good for their business, so if you ask them they might be able to accommodate you. You never know until you ask, anyway :) I have my own personal account and a non-profit site I look after with RUWebby - they are resellers of Handy Networks, who are US based. I believe Erika from RUWebby is on this list. As far as I know, Handy Networks deal exclusively with resellers. They might be more what you are looking for. HTH, K. : Thanks for your suggestion Kay. I have my doubts about whether it's : going : to work out for me though because I want to sell hosting. : There isn't : anyone I've found in Australia that is prepared to offer a : decent businesslike way to accommodate people like me. So : since I don't have enough hosting clients yet to afford : the cost of my own server, I have to keep hosting in the : USA. That company doesn't seem to even know that resellers : exist. No mention on their web site as far as I can see. : : Perhaps someone knows of an Australian hosting company : prepared to work with resellers. I don't mean offering : finders fees or commissions on referred business - I've got : no interest in that. All I'd be doing is giving my hard-won : clients to them. I mean someone who's prepared to run the : hardware, let me buy space on it, give me a control panel : so I can set up sites and domains myself, and who doesn't : insist on billing my clients for their space. I want to do that. : : : A hosting company has to take care of the technical needs of : the clients : - : fast reliable servers, the right database and server : software etc, but : they also have to cater for the business needs too. : : : No one in Australia seems prepared to do that, and at a : price that isn't ridiculous. There has to be room for me to : make a meagre buck in it too. : : : Cheers, : Mike Kear : Windsor, NSW, Australia : AFP WebWorks : : : : : -Original Message- : From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] : Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:06 PM : To: CF-Talk : Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations : : Mike, : : A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in : Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is : a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've : seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I : have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all : the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most : expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, : and were willing to install the Camtech online payment : server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've : had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. : : K. : : PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting : something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do : talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - : maybe it will work! : : : Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message : news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... : Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to : resellers. : They : only have a referral program. Referral programs suit : sales people, : who : want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the : development : work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free : to compete : with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full : responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Thanks Benjamin. I took a look and it proves my argument- Australian companies just don't cater for their clients' business needs - at least not as far as I've found so far. Ozhosting want to charge a setup fee of $436.70 to set up cold fusion and SQLServer PER SITE . If I want to move 50 domains to them I'm going to go broke before I've even moved them in.In all the hosting companies I've looked at so far, that's included. And this bunch of highway robbers wants to charge to set up email aliases and email boxes. They think we can't work a calculator. And I have to add a margin to this and make money? Who's going to pay that? Thanks for your suggestions. IF you're paying this sort of deal, you should talk to me. I have a Harbour Bridge in Sydney that I could sell you cheap. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP WebWorks -Original Message- From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 6:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations Ozhosting has a reseller program. They have a control panel for basic things like configuring email etc, but the new account creation has to be done by them (which is usually instant)... You get about a 25% discount off the retail price as a reseller which works out to be under around 300/per year + about 250 to setup CF. They are based in Melbourne. Just installed a new cf5 box as well... they also do dedicated services if you have the money. www.ozhosting.com Benjamin - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:06 PM Subject: RE: OT- Hosting recommendations Thanks for your suggestion Kay. I have my doubts about whether it's going to work out for me though because I want to sell hosting. There isn't anyone I've found in Australia that is prepared to offer a decent businesslike way to accommodate people like me. So since I don't have enough hosting clients yet to afford the cost of my own server, I have to keep hosting in the USA. That company doesn't seem to even know that resellers exist. No mention on their web site as far as I can see. Perhaps someone knows of an Australian hosting company prepared to work with resellers. I don't mean offering finders fees or commissions on referred business - I've got no interest in that. All I'd be doing is giving my hard-won clients to them. I mean someone who's prepared to run the hardware, let me buy space on it, give me a control panel so I can set up sites and domains myself, and who doesn't insist on billing my clients for their space. I want to do that. A hosting company has to take care of the technical needs of the clients - fast reliable servers, the right database and server software etc, but they also have to cater for the business needs too. No one in Australia seems prepared to do that, and at a price that isn't ridiculous. There has to be room for me to make a meagre buck in it too. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP WebWorks -Original Message- From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
Mike, Here are some words of advice because I've been through (and I mean THROUGH) what you are considering... Don't make your choice to do this lightly... If you insist on doing this, there are two other options to consider... Dedicated or Co-Location...A number of providers offer both of these options... Dedicated is a little more expensive ongoing, but co-location is an interesting option as you provide the server...the hosting company just plug it in for you (greater upfront costs, less ongoing cost except for maintenence). If you we're going to host 50 sites it's going to cost you a lot no matter who you go with, but if that's the number of sites you are going to host, then you should definitely go for either of these two options... the incoming revenue of those site could easily cover the cost of set-up/ongoing etc... But I agree with you in general... hosting providers aren't really very responsive to people in your position, but it's mainly because you want to outsource all of the work (server maintenance, software and hardware) and have them worry about most of it... You would essentially be a middle man... that's why they charge what the charge. But going co-location means you are effectively running your own box (it just resides at their server farm) and you'd used remote access tools to configure and maintain it... With that many sites you could do Ok financially, but I agree with Kay... hosting is a complete headf**k... I started doing it when I set-up my shop a couple of years ago and the net result was that even though you might produce *fantastic* design/programming work for your clients, if your hosting services fail it will result in you a)having a nervous breakdown and b)your clients hating you... I lost a few great clients because of email/hosting issues, so I threw at side of the business out the door. I just wasn't worth it. The most frustrating aspect was that when problems occurred, you have to assume the mantle of 'responsibility' for your clients sites, even though you have no direct access to fix the problem yourself, so if it turns out you go with an incompetent hosting provider (or even a competent one with too many sites) you end up being the village idiot. Another thing to consider is that in the worst case scenario, you have to reload (because of problems with hosting providers) and you've already got a number of sites, this become *extremely* expensive and it's not a cost you can pass onto your clients (because it was your fault for choosing your supplier in the first place). My advice. Find a good provide you can 'recommend' and forget trying to make money off hosting. Then, if the service screws up you're only partly responsible, but nothing like if you take your clients money in exchange for hosting. Good luck whichever way you go :-) Benjamin - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: RE: OT- Hosting recommendations Thanks Benjamin. I took a look and it proves my argument- Australian companies just don't cater for their clients' business needs - at least not as far as I've found so far. Ozhosting want to charge a setup fee of $436.70 to set up cold fusion and SQLServer PER SITE . If I want to move 50 domains to them I'm going to go broke before I've even moved them in.In all the hosting companies I've looked at so far, that's included. And this bunch of highway robbers wants to charge to set up email aliases and email boxes. They think we can't work a calculator. And I have to add a margin to this and make money? Who's going to pay that? Thanks for your suggestions. IF you're paying this sort of deal, you should talk to me. I have a Harbour Bridge in Sydney that I could sell you cheap. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP WebWorks -Original Message- From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 6:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations Ozhosting has a reseller program. They have a control panel for basic things like configuring email etc, but the new account creation has to be done by them (which is usually instant)... You get about a 25% discount off the retail price as a reseller which works out to be under around 300/per year + about 250 to setup CF. They are based in Melbourne. Just installed a new cf5 box as well... they also do dedicated services if you have the money. www.ozhosting.com Benjamin - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:06 PM Subject: RE: OT- Hosting recommendations Thanks for your suggestion Kay. I have my doubts about whether it's going to work out for me though because I want to sell hosting. There isn't anyone I've found in Australia that is prepared to offer a decent businesslike way
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Thanks for your suggestion Kay. I have my doubts about whether it's going to work out for me though because I want to sell hosting. There isn't anyone I've found in Australia that is prepared to offer a decent businesslike way to accommodate people like me. So since I don't have enough hosting clients yet to afford the cost of my own server, I have to keep hosting in the USA. That company doesn't seem to even know that resellers exist. No mention on their web site as far as I can see. Perhaps someone knows of an Australian hosting company prepared to work with resellers. I don't mean offering finders fees or commissions on referred business - I've got no interest in that. All I'd be doing is giving my hard-won clients to them. I mean someone who's prepared to run the hardware, let me buy space on it, give me a control panel so I can set up sites and domains myself, and who doesn't insist on billing my clients for their space. I want to do that. A hosting company has to take care of the technical needs of the clients - fast reliable servers, the right database and server software etc, but they also have to cater for the business needs too. No one in Australia seems prepared to do that, and at a price that isn't ridiculous. There has to be room for me to make a meagre buck in it too. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP WebWorks -Original Message- From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
Ozhosting has a reseller program. They have a control panel for basic things like configuring email etc, but the new account creation has to be done by them (which is usually instant)... You get about a 25% discount off the retail price as a reseller which works out to be under around 300/per year + about 250 to setup CF. They are based in Melbourne. Just installed a new cf5 box as well... they also do dedicated services if you have the money. www.ozhosting.com Benjamin - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:06 PM Subject: RE: OT- Hosting recommendations Thanks for your suggestion Kay. I have my doubts about whether it's going to work out for me though because I want to sell hosting. There isn't anyone I've found in Australia that is prepared to offer a decent businesslike way to accommodate people like me. So since I don't have enough hosting clients yet to afford the cost of my own server, I have to keep hosting in the USA. That company doesn't seem to even know that resellers exist. No mention on their web site as far as I can see. Perhaps someone knows of an Australian hosting company prepared to work with resellers. I don't mean offering finders fees or commissions on referred business - I've got no interest in that. All I'd be doing is giving my hard-won clients to them. I mean someone who's prepared to run the hardware, let me buy space on it, give me a control panel so I can set up sites and domains myself, and who doesn't insist on billing my clients for their space. I want to do that. A hosting company has to take care of the technical needs of the clients - fast reliable servers, the right database and server software etc, but they also have to cater for the business needs too. No one in Australia seems prepared to do that, and at a price that isn't ridiculous. There has to be room for me to make a meagre buck in it too. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP WebWorks -Original Message- From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
hmmm, is domain host the same as OzHosting? I seem to remember that when my accounts were moved to OzHosting, I could access them using a temporary domain host name If they are one and the same.. STEER CLEAR! I, and several other people I know have had several episodes with them, and I simply could not recommend them to anyone!! N On 06 Dec 2001 16:05:34 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
hi... i think that was cyberhost? chad hmmm, is domain host the same as OzHosting? I seem to remember that when my accounts were moved to OzHosting, I could access them using a temporary domain host name If they are one and the same.. STEER CLEAR! I, and several other people I know have had several episodes with them, and I simply could not recommend them to anyone!! N On 06 Dec 2001 16:05:34 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
I used Cyberhost for a long time, and in fact use them still, under their new name and I have rarely ever had a problem with them, but OzHosting I won't go there!! They had a debt collector onto me for invoices that were less than 10 days old, and I hadn't even received copies of the invoices!! N On 06 Dec 2001 17:52:04 +0900, list peters wrote: hi... i think that was cyberhost? chad hmmm, is domain host the same as OzHosting? I seem to remember that when my accounts were moved to OzHosting, I could access them using a temporary domain host name If they are one and the same.. STEER CLEAR! I, and several other people I know have had several episodes with them, and I simply could not recommend them to anyone!! N On 06 Dec 2001 16:05:34 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
Actually I think Ozhosting /Cyberhosting is now Dedicated Hosting - I have one client on there and they are OK, but get quite pricy when you want something that's not one of their predefined packages. Nick Texidor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:47A0AECF-F1DE-4B62-9EE70FF2C453EEF2@dposter... hmmm, is domain host the same as OzHosting? I seem to remember that when my accounts were moved to OzHosting, I could access them using a temporary domain host name If they are one and the same.. STEER CLEAR! I, and several other people I know have had several episodes with them, and I simply could not recommend them to anyone!! N On 06 Dec 2001 16:05:34 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
You are correct Kay... Actually, Cyberhost were the original company (now back in business as Dedicated Hosting). I have been using them for years now. Early last year Cynerhost were bought by iAsiaWorks and then towards the end of the year, OzHosting bought all the Virtual Server Business from iAsia Works This is when it all went horribly wrong for us. OzHosting, were shocking. Customer Service was terrible, and it took several weeks to try and get another server set up. Dedicated Hosting then came about, mainly dealing with co-lo stuff, and after hearing about the hassles their former clients had with OzHosting, they started up offering virtual servers. I've subsequently moved all my clients back, and couldn't be happier. OzHosting also cut services off without warning! Dedicated Hosting are worth a look, IMO. (I don't work for them) Nick On 06 Dec 2001 18:08:01 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Actually I think Ozhosting /Cyberhosting is now Dedicated Hosting - I have one client on there and they are OK, but get quite pricy when you want something that's not one of their predefined packages. Nick Texidor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:47A0AECF-F1DE-4B62-9EE70FF2C453EEF2@dposter... hmmm, is domain host the same as OzHosting? I seem to remember that when my accounts were moved to OzHosting, I could access them using a temporary domain host name If they are one and the same.. STEER CLEAR! I, and several other people I know have had several episodes with them, and I simply could not recommend them to anyone!! N On 06 Dec 2001 16:05:34 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Mike, A bit late I know, but have you looked at Domain Host in Melbourne? http://www.domainhost.com.au - their web site is a little bit dodgy but their prices are by far the best I've seen in Australia, and their support has been top notch. I have several clients with CF5, SQL Server, Live Stats, all the usual guff for AUD $77 per month - and that's their most expensive account. They have co-lo and dedicated boxes etc, and were willing to install the Camtech online payment server for us for no extra charge. After all the crap I've had from Australian ColdFusion hosts they are a ray of sunshine. K. PS. After reading all that, I sound like I'm getting something out of recommending them. I'm not. But if you do talk to them, tell them Kay from PerthWeb recommended you - maybe it will work! Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
Mike, Take a look @ www.1stchoiceinternational.com we are in the process offering a CFdevelopment box for our CF community as well as our current hosting offer of CF, SQL and PHP Mark Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Kear wrote: I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Ok I've had lots and lots of recommendations of other systems, and heaps of people writing to me saying try us but my original question was .. .has anyone got anything to say about Sitebysize.com in Texas. I've already spent quite a lot of time researching hosts, and while some of you suggested possibilities I'd missed, the vast majority I'd already looked at and ruled out for one reason or another. (Usually because they don't want reseller business, only referrals) So let me ask again has anyone had any experience with sitebysize.com in Texas? (Good or bad experience) Cheers, Mike Kear AFPWebworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 3:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations take a look at WeDoHosting.com -great support -just about finished their web based admin stuff (domain and e-mail control etc.) -CF and SQL Server 2000 Oh ya and Canadian pricesas low as $9.95/month (about $6 US) HTH Bryan Stevenson VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Allaire Alliance Partner www.allaire.com - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Try www.advances.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:48 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Yes I use them too (advances.com) and LOVE them, their prices are great and I have had NO CF or SQL problems, they even let me install custom dll tags etc... Very helpful support. Kelly -Original Message- From: Yager, Brian T Contractor/NCCIM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT- Hosting recommendations Try www.advances.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:48 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
take a look at WeDoHosting.com -great support -just about finished their web based admin stuff (domain and e-mail control etc.) -CF and SQL Server 2000 Oh ya and Canadian pricesas low as $9.95/month (about $6 US) HTH Bryan Stevenson VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. p. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Allaire Alliance Partner www.allaire.com - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT- Hosting recommendations
Mike, Give me a shout off list ([EMAIL PROTECTED])... I can put something together for you. If not, I'll help you find someone who can. Take care.. Lee Fuller Chief Technical Officer PrimeDNA Corporation / AAA Web Hosting Corporation We ARE the net. http://www.aaawebhosting.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT- Hosting recommendations Thanks for your suggestion, but CFXHosting don't cater to resellers. They only have a referral program. Referral programs suit sales people, who want to grab a deal and hand it to someone else to do the development work. The customer becomes theirs, and they are then free to compete with me for the CF Development business. I'd rather take full responsibility for the site and have the hosting company at arms length from the client. I won't have a bar of any referral program on my supplier side because us the development work is the main game. If we could, we'd get rid of the sales process altogether. That's why I have a referral program myself on the other side of the ledger. I want to make the client MY client. (I might add my own referral program is a LOT more generous than these hosting companies offer!) But thanks for your suggestion anyway. Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia -Original Message- From: Douglas L. Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT- Hosting recommendations As far as hosting compines go, I would suggest cfxhosting.com http://www.cfxhosting.com . Everything I hear from others is on a real positive note. Doug - Original Message - From: Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT- Hosting recommendations I'm looking to move my smaller clients to a new hosting company, because of support issues and restrictions on what I can and can't do where I am now. There are about 20 domains involved, and I'm thinking of using Sitebysize.com in Texas. Has anyone had any experience with them? What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). Cheers, Mike Kear AFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT- Hosting recommendations
What I need are: CF, SQLServer, ability to control my domains, mail accounts, etc myself from the web, low cost (which rules out any Australian hosting companies), and a responsive support department (my biggest complaint about my current host). I've been pretty happy with http://www.crystaltech.com. It's got all of the above (although with SQL Server, the lowest plan is $50/month, so I'm not sure if you call that low-cost or not). They also have a reseller feature where they just discount all subsequent sites you host with them (each successive site has a bigger discount). Scott -- Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ ~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
