RE: Uploading SQL Server databases

[James Sleeman]

On Mon, 15 May 2000 22:42:36 -0400, "Dave Watts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> seperate files once created - .mdf and .ldf (data and

> I don't think you can simply overwrite these files safely, as metadata for
> the databases is stored in the master database. At least, that's how it
> works in earlier versions. If you can shut down any database clients (like
> CF) during the process, you can restore from a backup device file (that you
> created on your development machine). This is pretty easy to do in SQL
> Server 7 and is more practical than using Data Transformation Services for
> most purposes.

Ahh, OK that is just what I wanted to know.  

Thanks...
James Sleeman

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RE: Uploading SQL Server databases

[Dave Watts]

> This is true the master db does contain info about the DB
> including the security settings and things like that. But I
> think as long as the services are stopped then there should
> not be a problem.
>
> Again I am not sure because the only thing I have done it
> with was a small static DB but it is worth a try.

There's no need to try this. You can easily back up your database to a file,
copy the file to a new server, and restore from that file, without having to
shut down the database server or worry about losing info. I do this quite
often when I have to deploy a new version of a database.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: Uploading SQL Server databases

[Nick McClure]

>I don't think you can simply overwrite these files safely, as metadata for
>the databases is stored in the master database. At least, that's how it
>works in earlier versions. If you can shut down any database clients (like
>CF) during the process, you can restore from a backup device file (that you
>created on your development machine). This is pretty easy to do in SQL
>Server 7 and is more practical than using Data Transformation Services for
>most purposes.

This is true the master db does contain info about the DB including the 
security settings and things like that. But I think as long as the services 
are stopped then there should not be a problem.

Again I am not sure because the only thing I have done it with was a small 
static DB but it is worth a try.



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RE: Uploading SQL Server databases

[Dave Watts]

> Correct, but different servers will do things differently,
> SQL server (so far as I can see) stores a database in two
> seperate files once created - .mdf and .ldf (data and
> transaction log files), my question is can I just replace
> these files with newer versions to bring the remote database
> schema up to date, or will I have to interact with the server
> and re-create my database every time ?

I don't think you can simply overwrite these files safely, as metadata for
the databases is stored in the master database. At least, that's how it
works in earlier versions. If you can shut down any database clients (like
CF) during the process, you can restore from a backup device file (that you
created on your development machine). This is pretty easy to do in SQL
Server 7 and is more practical than using Data Transformation Services for
most purposes.

> Have you used SQL Server ?  The enterprise manager looks an
> awful lot like a GUI to me :-)

SQL Server 7's GUI provides a lot more functionality than did previous
versions, although you could always build a database table-by-table in SQL
Enterprise Manager, even in earlier versions.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Re: Uploading SQL Server databases

[Nick McClure]

>Correct, but different servers will do things differently, SQL server (so 
>far as I can see) stores a database in two seperate files once created - 
>.mdf and .ldf (data and transaction log files), my question is can I just 
>replace these files with newer versions to bring the remote database 
>schema up to date, or will I have to interact with the server and 
>re-create my database every time ?

I have done this before, it does work, But you have to be careful. All SQL 
Server services should be stopped, then you should replace the files, and 
start the services.

The DB I got it to work on was a small one with fairly static data.

In order to do it via CF I would remote stop the services using the netsvc 
command that comes with NT Server Resource Kit 4.0 (the file does work on 
2000). Then use cffile to move the file, then use the netsvc command again 
to start them.

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Re: Uploading SQL Server databases

[James Sleeman]

On Tue, 16 May 2000 00:02:17 +0100, Russ Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Your gonna be needing to do some reading up on database servers before you 
> embark on this methinks.

I am a BSc. with a CS major, one of my final courses was for the most part made up of 
studying SQL in Ingres, so I do know some things about database servers driven by SQL, 
and using them from commandline based tools.

> There is a big difference between an Access database file and SQL Server. A 
> database server does not have separate files like Access, the database are 
> self-contained within the server itself.

Correct, but different servers will do things differently, SQL server (so far as I can 
see) stores a database in two seperate files once created - .mdf and .ldf (data and 
transaction log files), my question is can I just replace these files with newer 
versions to bring the remote database schema up to date, or will I have to interact 
with the server and re-create my database every time ? 

> You do not have a GUI for making your databases like Access, you write 
> scripts that build them for you. Although there are a number of 3rd party 
> products that will connect to your database and allow you to build the 
> scripts visually. 

Have you used SQL Server ?  The enterprise manager looks an awful lot like a GUI to me 
:-)

> A database server really needs to be a completely separate machine rather 
> than installing SQL server on the same machine as your webserver. You can 
> setup different partitions and have a live server and a development server 
> if you are not able to have a SQL server locally.

It's not my problem where the server is - I don't even know if it is in this country, 
as I say we don't own our own servers,  I don't develop directly on the hosts servers 
but on my own workstation and then synchronize the two, partly this is so I can change 
things while the application is live and then just upload the changes once everything 
checks out and partly because our own net connection isn't the hottest of items 
sometimes :-(

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Re: Uploading SQL Server databases

[Russ Michaels]

Your gonna be needing to do some reading up on database servers before you 
embark on this methinks.
There is a big difference between an Access database file and SQL Server. A 
database server does not have separate files like Access, the database are 
self-contained within the server itself.
You do not have a GUI for making your databases like Access, you write 
scripts that build them for you. Although there are a number of 3rd party 
products that will connect to your database and allow you to build the 
scripts visually. Such as SQL Programmer, Sybase Central or Toad for Oracle.
A database server really needs to be a completely separate machine rather 
than installing SQL server on the same machine as your webserver. You can 
setup different partitions and have a live server and a development server 
if you are not able to have a SQL server locally.


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Uploading SQL Server databases

[James Sleeman]

Hi all,
up to now I have had the pleasure of only needing to use Access databases for 
our CF projects, however a possible upcoming task and at least one of the since much 
larger completed tasks will soon require the power of a database server, at this point 
in time, MS SQL Server. 

Now we don't host locally (that is, we don't own or run our servers), and I am just 
unsure of how the process for initially getting my SQL Server databases to the remote 
server (FTP access) and then replacing them with newer versions as the development 
progresses (I know, I know, get it right first time :-) ) and bringing down the active 
ones once the (finished) application is up and public to maintain our local (internal) 
copy.  

Of course as far as Access went, I just upload the database file and tell our host to 
setup a DSN for it, then I can just up/download it as I please with later versions - 
but am I able to do this with the SQL server files, are there any pitfalls ?

Any advice appreciated...
James Sleeman


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