[Jchat] Roger Hui

[chris burke]

Hacker News discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28898045
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Roger Hui

[chris burke]

> If anyone has an address to send cards to his family please post.

I am not sure of the propriety of posting Roger's family address to the
forum, but if anyone wants it, please email me privately. Thanks.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 4:31 PM John Baker  wrote:

> This is very sad news.
>
> The first time I heard of Roger was shortly after being hired at I.P.Sharp
> in early 1980s. One of my managers said Roger was the best coder he had
> ever met.  He was certainly one of the best I have ever met.
>
> If anyone has an address to send cards to his family please post.
>
> You will be missed Roger.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 17, 2021, at 17:18, 'Nollaig MacKenzie' via Chat <
> c...@jsoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> > It is very sad that Roger's life should have ended so early.
> > I had not met him in person, but his wise and intelligent
> > contributions to the J fora, and the evident respect and
> > affection he had from everyone involved with J and APL,
> > made him a concrete presence.
> >
> > Condolences to his family and close friends.
> >
> > Nollaig
> >
> > Sent using Hushmail
> >
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jprogramming] Roger Hui - 1953 - 2021

[chris burke]

Apart from Roger's work for Jsoftware and Dyalog, I'd like to mention a
couple of rather less known contributions:

One is the brilliant set of Essays in the J wiki at
https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays .

The other is the set of papers on APL and J at
https://www.jsoftware.com/papers, which is a treasure trove of historical
info. Roger worked on this quietly for several years. His last update was
just 3 weeks ago.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 9:18 AM Raul Miller  wrote:

> :(
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 12:14 PM Eric Iverson 
> wrote:
> >
> > Roger Hui passed away peacefully on Saturday afternoon, October 16, 2021.
> >
> > He had a several year struggle with cancer and was in a hospice with his
> > hands held by his wife Stella and their children Rachel and Nicholas.
> >
> > Roger created J with Ken and made major contributions to APL. But all
> that
> > has been farthest from my mind the last 24 hours. What I think about is
> the
> > joy I saw when watching Ken and Roger together. I remember Ken telling me
> > how Roger asked if it would be OK to bring his girlfriend to dinner with
> > Ken and Jean. And how they were surprised by the coincidence that her
> name
> > was Ken's mother's name. No one was surprised by the integrity and
> > soundness of the family that he and Stella made.
> >
> > Yes, Roger was a coder extraordinaire. But what was important is that he
> > was a rock solid good person. His calm and measured way in life and in
> his
> > last years should be a model to all.
> >
> > (Roger would have insisted that any comments go to chat)
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Should I learn APL or J?

[chris burke]

>  If you want to develop a user-facing application, APL may be a better
choice.

I think this comment is out of date. Certainly, early J had limited gui
facilities compared with APLs, but at least since J5, J has gui support
that is perfectly adequate for typical desktop applications. Moreover if
you really want something fancier, then you can write the gui in another
toolkit such as Qt or Electron and call J under the covers. Jqt is itself
written in Qt and calls J this way.

Apart from the gui, I find the J IDE to be much more productive than any of
APLs, which to me always seem rather clunky.

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:15 AM Devon McCormick  wrote:

> If language exploration is your purpose, I think J offers more.  If you
> want to develop a user-facing application, APL may be a better choice.
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Video chat nerd-out session?

[chris burke]

JAPLA (Japan APL Association) is still active.

http://japla.sakura.ne.jp/

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 5:32 PM ethiejiesa via Chat 
wrote:

> Thanks. Looks like this is tonight. Not sure if I can swing midnight
> though...
>
> As far as I can tell, there is a dearth of online meetings available to
> Asia
> users, which is a part of the reason I am reaching out in the first place:
>
> https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/User_Groups lists a Japan group, but
> unfortunately, they have no online meetings as far as I can tell, and their
> physical meetings are infeasibly far for me to attend.
>
> https://www.dyalog.com/user-groups.htm suggests that there are not any
> groups
> in Asia at all.
>
> I am hoping that there might be some interested members in a time zone in
> or
> around Asia. Maybe this is a gap that needs to be filled.
>
> greg heil  wrote:
> > Near you, the
> > BAA also streams monthly
> > latest email attached
> >
> > ~greg heil
> > https//picsrp.github.io
> >
> > --
> >
> > from: The British APL Association 
> > to: greg heil 
> > date: Jun 2, 2021, 5:19 AM
> > subject: Open Session - June 3rd 2021
> >
> > The British APL Association
> > A BAA Webinar
> > The British APL Association invites you to the next Webinar.
> >
> > Open Session
> > 3 Jun 2021 16:00 BST
> >
> > >Thank  you to Karen Shaw of Dyalog for pointing out my earlier
> confusing blooper with the email subject
> >
> > .Our next open session is this Thursday. As usual the floor will be
> > open to discuss any APL related topic that comes up.
> >
> > Join the Webinar https://zoom.us/j/858532665
> > The passcode to this meeting is 391680
> >
> > NB this meeting is recorded automatically.
> >
> > >To present at future BAA Webinars please contact
> eve...@britishaplassociation.org .
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > The British APL Association
> >
> > >This email was sent by the British APL Association You are receiving
> this because you are on the BAA mailing list. Preferences  |  Unsubscribe
> >
> > --
> >
> > from: Devon McCormick 
> > to: Chat forum 
> > date: Jun 2, 2021, 6:40 AM
> > subject: Re: [Jchat] Video chat nerd-out session?
> >
> > he NYCJUG meeting every month provides an opportunity to do that:
> > https://www.meetup.com/J-Dynamic-Functional-Programming/.
> > Our next meeting is on the 8th at 18:30 EDT.
> >
> > --
> >
> > from: ethiejiesa via Chat 
> > to: c...@jsoftware.com
> > date: Jun 1, 2021, 9:54 PM
> > subject: [Jchat] Video chat nerd-out session?
> >
> > Hello J,
> >
> > >Would anyone be interested and available for a nerd-out session video
> chat in the near future?
> >
> > I'm in UTC+9:00.
> >
> > >Hearing about Larry Breed's passing from Roger Hui's post, and reading
> more early APL development stories has me really wanting to interact in
> person with some other array programming nutters.
> >
> > Anyway, hope you all are well.
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jprogramming] A new podcast on the Array Programming Languages

[chris burke]

The programming forum is also intended for announcements, such as this
podcast.

There is a lot of interest in this, so please continue to announce on the
programming forum, thanks.


On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 10:02 AM 'robert therriault' via Programming <
programm...@jsoftware.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Thank you for all the positive responses to the first episode of Array
> Cast. We are gratified by the feedback we have received and, going forward,
> we will be producing a new episode every two weeks.
>
> In the future, I will post discussion of the podcast on the Chat forum, as
> I think that is the appropriate place for the discussion of an area that
> promotes the language, but does not directly involve the details of
> programming.
>
> If you have not already subscribed to that forum you may want to consider
> doing so, as it covers topics about J in the wider world beyond the
> programming venue.
>
> Cheers, bob
>
> > On May 17, 2021, at 18:10, Ian Clark  wrote:
> >
> > Very nicely produced, Bob & co. Hits the sweet spot in promotional media
> I
> > think. Convinces me that APLs (as a class of languages) could have a
> future
> > in the 21-cent.
> >
> > Keep 'em coming — and this will become regular listening for me.
> >
> > Ian Clark
> >
> > On Sun, 16 May 2021 at 00:43, 'robert therriault' via Programming <
> > programm...@jsoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> >> We have just completed the first episode of the Array Cast, a podcast
> all
> >> about the Array Programming languages. Hosted by Conor Hoekstra, with
> >> co-hosts Adám Brudzewsky (APL), Stephen Taylor (APL, q), and Bob
> Therriault
> >> (J), this bi-weekly podcast will cover developments in the array
> >> programming paradigm. For the first episode, the topic is 'Why We Like
> the
> >> Array Programming Languages'. It is currently available to download from
> >> the arraycast.com website and within the next day or two should be
> >> available on iTunes and other podcatchers of your choice. Give it a
> listen
> >> and let us know what you think at cont...@arraycast.com or @arraycast
> on
> >> Twitter.
> >>
> >> Cheers, bob
> >> --
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] suggestion: put nuvoc in the left hand navigation on the wiki

[chris burke]

Thanks for the suggestion! Done now.

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:19 AM Michal Wallace
 wrote:
>
> I have to imagine that NuVoc is one of the most accessed pages on the wiki.
> If not, it probably would be if it were easier to find.
>
> Either way, could it be added to the left hand navigation?
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Hard links to find

[chris burke]

The wiki page code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Community_Wiki_vs_HTML_Publications
now has all the links. This is referenced on the main page of the
wiki.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:34 AM Don Guinn  wrote:
>
> Since NuVoc is now the vocabulary the links in the original vocabulary page
> to things like Usr  Pri  JfC  LJ  Phr Dic  and the original dictionary are
> now hard to find. They are really useful, especially for new J users.
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Vocabulary

[chris burke]

We had not planned to keep the old HTML pages up to date, see
https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Community_Wiki_vs_HTML_Publications .

The daily HTTrack dump works pretty well offline, see
https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Help/Offline .

We might be able to do something better for just NuVoc, along the lines of
the offline Jd docs. If anyone has ideas, let me know.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 1:01 PM Marc Simpson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there an up to date version of the J vocabulary
> (https://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm)?  If not, are
> there any plans to update the original help system to cover v901
> engine changes?
>
> I realise that NuVoc (https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/NuVoc) exists
> but unfortunately find the presentation very noisy and difficult to
> scan through quickly.  Having a local copy bundled with J would also
> be preferable.
>
> Thanks,
> Marc
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] What product(s) do you use to distribute J?

[chris burke]

There is a later writeup at
https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Guides/J8_Standalone
, which is mainly intended for Jqt applications.

In general, a distributed application needs at least the J binaries (
jconsole + jlib, e.g. on Windows jconsole.exe and j.dll) plus a script. If
your app has several source scripts, then catenate them together to create
a single script for distribution. You can decide whether just to distribute
this minimum, or distribute a base installation with your script, see
https://www.jsoftware.com/download/j901/install .

There are no automated tools that would look at your application and decide
what needs to be distributed, but it should be straightforward to find this
out.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 7:33 AM Gilles Kirouac  wrote:

> Did you have a look at
> https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Studio/Application_Distribution_-_Installer
>
> It is rather old now and AFAICS the corresponding labs have not been
> distributed for quite some time. Should we not revive them?
>
> I used it long ago (J5 or J6?).
>
> ~ Gilles
>
> Le 2019-11-15 à 09:05, Devon McCormick a écrit :
> > I, too, am interested in this question.  I have my home-made backup code
> in
> > J that I've been using daily for years and am very satisfied with it.
> > However, when a friend expressed interest in trying it out, I realized
> how
> > non-portable it is.  In fact, the simplest thing would be for me to give
> > him all my own code, comprising a little over 2 MB, as this is not a
> large
> > package by contemporary standards, but this seems sloppy.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 6:38 PM Bernie Eckhart <
> bernie.eckhart@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> There are many products that are used to distribute software to end
> users.
> >>
> >> Some are free, some are not free.
> >>
> >> Some are open source, some are not open source.
> >>
> >> Some may even be cross platform.
> >>
> >> What product(s) are use to package and deliver J?
> >>
> >> Bernie
> >> --
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>
> >
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Introducing J to Financial & Actuarial Students

[chris burke]

I see J and R as being complementary, i.e. R for its statistical functions
and J as an expressive application development language that can call R
directly.

Also I think J's wd interface is probably the simplest way a finance or
actuarial user could develop a professional quality gui.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Correspondents' names anonymised as "Programming Forum" "Chat" etc

[chris burke]

Can you check your address book for entries like "Programming Forum" and
"Pascal Jasmin"? Very likely they are associated in some way.

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 7:54 AM 'Mike Day' via Chat 
wrote:

> Yes, I'm on 60.6.1 as well!  Perhaps our T/bird set-ups got swapped
>
> I agree its behaviour is consistent in that individuals are consistently
> treated
>
> one way or the other!
>
> Weird,
>
> Mike
>
> On 14/05/2019 15:06, David Mitchell wrote:
> > I have been seeing the 'anonymizing' issue for years with Tbird.  Some
> > messages showed the "From" field value as the name of the Forum. I
> > never determined why some messages in the forums showed this and some
> > did not.  It seemed to be consistent for particular senders.
> >
> > Several weeks ago, this changed for me.  I now see some From values as:
> > 'Mike Day' via Chat
> >
> > Plus, my older messages were retroactively fixed.
> >
> > So, I suspect that Tbird has had some recent changes that fixed it for
> > me.  I am running Tbird 60.6.1.
> >
> > David Mitchell
> >
> >
> > On 5/14/2019 09:22, chris burke wrote:
> >> I don't see this problem using Gmail.
> >>
> >> Is the Tbird behaviour consistent? It seems that Skip and Pascal were
> >> anonymized, but is this always the case? If so, check your address book
> >> entries for them.
> >>
> >> Also, is it possible to customize the "Correspondents" column in
> >> Tbird, so
> >> as to force showing the "From" address for the forums?
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:42 AM 'Mike Day' via Chat  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sorry to ask this again - Chris set me right some time ago,  but I
> >>> can't
> >>> find his advice, nor can I remember how to show myself and others, such
> >>> as Skip Cave, I think, by name rather than as "Programming Forum", both
> >>> in the "Correspondents" column in Mozilla Thunderbird's list of emails,
> >>> and, in an individual message window, the names shown as From and To.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if this is a feature of other email support software -
> >>> I've
> >>> always favoured T/Bird.
> >>>
> >>> This isn't (only!) a matter of vanity - it's a pain looking at a stream
> >>> of messages listed by thread and looking for a particular person's
> >>> contribution.
> >>>
> >>> For example,  in RE Boss's recent thread on "seqfan problem", all
> >>> contributors' names except mine are displayed, Boss, Hui, Alvord et al,
> >>> but I'm anonymous, so not too difficult.  However, in Skip Cave's
> >>> thread
> >>> "Largest & Smallest", both he and I are anonymous, while Roger &
> >>> Nollaig
> >>> are there by name. As for Piet de Jong's thread, "Passing on"
> >>> monad/dyad
> >>> information,  I have no idea who commented: " Cliff's answer is helpful
> >>> IMO,"
> >>>
> >>> I think the answer might be something to do with the "Address Book" but
> >>> can't remember.  It's probably thought to be intuitive, but it beats
> >>> me!  J's easy by comparison...
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>>
> >> --
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Correspondents' names anonymised as "Programming Forum" "Chat" etc

[chris burke]

I don't see this problem using Gmail.

Is the Tbird behaviour consistent? It seems that Skip and Pascal were
anonymized, but is this always the case? If so, check your address book
entries for them.

Also, is it possible to customize the "Correspondents" column in Tbird, so
as to force showing the "From" address for the forums?

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:42 AM 'Mike Day' via Chat 
wrote:

> Sorry to ask this again - Chris set me right some time ago,  but I can't
> find his advice, nor can I remember how to show myself and others, such
> as Skip Cave, I think, by name rather than as "Programming Forum", both
> in the "Correspondents" column in Mozilla Thunderbird's list of emails,
> and, in an individual message window, the names shown as From and To.
>
> I don't know if this is a feature of other email support software - I've
> always favoured T/Bird.
>
> This isn't (only!) a matter of vanity - it's a pain looking at a stream
> of messages listed by thread and looking for a particular person's
> contribution.
>
> For example,  in RE Boss's recent thread on "seqfan problem", all
> contributors' names except mine are displayed, Boss, Hui, Alvord et al,
> but I'm anonymous, so not too difficult.  However, in Skip Cave's thread
> "Largest & Smallest", both he and I are anonymous, while Roger & Nollaig
> are there by name. As for Piet de Jong's thread, "Passing on" monad/dyad
> information,  I have no idea who commented: " Cliff's answer is helpful
> IMO,"
>
> I think the answer might be something to do with the "Address Book" but
> can't remember.  It's probably thought to be intuitive, but it beats
> me!  J's easy by comparison...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] New web page

[chris burke]

The old website had only a little information and the new site has even
less. It is really just a stepping off point to the wiki, the online help
and the forums.

There are already several links in the sidebar to more information. Any
serious user of J should bookmark some or all of them.

On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 12:59 AM Jan-Pieter Jacobs <
janpieter.jac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If using firefox, you can save a bookmark, and use a keyword for turning it
> into a custom search, e.g.:
>
> make a bookmark named "jsoftware query" anywhere in your bookmarks, set the
> Location (url) to : "
> https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ajsoftware.com+%s
> "
>
> and put a keyword you'd like to use, e.g. "js" or "jsoft".
>
> Now if you type your keyword in the location bar together with your query,
> Firefox automatically pieces it together, without having to repeat site:
> jsoftware.com at every search, e.g. :
>
> enter "js control structures" in the location bar.
>
> Jan-Pieter
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019, 06:29 'Skip Cave' via Chat 
> wrote:
>
> > Just need the search box back on the first page, to save typing "site:
> > jsoftware.com search term", every time I go there.
> >
> > Skip
> >
> > Skip Cave
> > Cave Consulting LLC
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:29 PM Eric Iverson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Navigation should and will be improved.
> > >
> > > For now, at www.jsoftware.com
> > >  get started>vocabulary>controls
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:16 PM Ben Gorte  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think I know what you mean. My current solution is to search for:
> > > >
> > > > control structures site:jsoftware.com
> > > >
> > > > Grtz B
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 12:02 PM David Lambert 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Difficult to find control structures from the new main
> > > www.jsoftware.com
> > > > > page.  I haven't yet thought of a good solution.
> > > > >
> > --
> > > > > For information about J forums see
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > > > >
> > > >
> --
> > > > For information about J forums see
> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > > >
> > > --
> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] A funny thing happened on the way to the forum search

[chris burke]

Thanks for the bug report and finding the problem. I'll get this fixed.

On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 10:00 PM Raul Miller  wrote:

> This happens because of the content of
> http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2017-September/048508.html
> which contains a meta refresh with a three second delay.
>
> Perhaps less-than characters in messages should be translated to html
> entities (ampersand L T semicolon)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 11:00 PM 'Jon Hough' via Chat 
> wrote:
> >
> > I wanted to know how to add headers to http requests in J.
> > I went to the forum search http://www.jsoftware.com/forumsearch.htm and
> innocently typed in the keyword "headers" (no quotes)
> > and chose programming forum. Clicked search and a list of chats appears
> as would be expected.
> >
> http://www.jsoftware.com/cgi-bin/forumsearch.cgi?all=headers==2=0=0=1=1=1998=31=12=2019
> > Suddenly I get redirected to
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/cgi-bin/%3CA%20HREF= , and a 404 error.
> >
> > Strange behaviour. It makes it difficult to search for header or headers.
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Stale links

[chris burke]

Fixed now, thanks to Raul for the wayback copy.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 2:05 PM Raul Miller  wrote:

> It's generally the case that anything cool on the internet will
> eventually unfreeze.  Still, we can at times attempt to preserve cool
> things.
>
> Today I noticed that
> http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/applied_mathematics_in_j.htm
> references http://www.ewartshaw.co.uk/data/jhyper.doc which is no
> longer available at that url.
>
> I managed to grab a copy from the wayback machine (web.archive.org),
> but probably it would make sense to host that document on the
> jsoftware site and change the "j for c programmers" link?
>
> [I should probably also soon throw some money both in the direction of
> the jsoftware site, and the wayback machine site, to put off the days
> when each of them melts down...)
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] broken images on iverson document

[chris burke]

Fixed now, thanks.

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 8:34 AM Raul Miller  wrote:

> http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm
>
> "This document must be viewed with a graphical browser."
>
> (but the images are broken.)
>
> I haven't spidered the jsoftware site to look for documents in a
> similar state and/or to try to locate the missing images. [Should I]?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] GitHub -- is this good news or bad?

[chris burke]

I don't think this is a concern for those with public github repos (like
ourselves). Our private git repos are self-hosted, not on github.

The real concern would be for those with private github repos, which may
now become readable by Microsoft. Whatever assurances are given, I think it
likely that some private repos will be moved elsewhere. This will reduce
their revenue, since github only charges for private repos.


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Ian Clark  wrote:

> QUOTE: Microsoft used to run a rival service called Codeplex, but shut it
> down last year saying that Github had become the "de facto place for open
> source sharing".
>
> It makes sense for a big company to buy shares in a service supplier they
> want to provide financial support for. But buying a controlling interest is
> about control, not support.
>
> Microsoft buys Github code-sharing site for $7.5bn
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44351214
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] 50 shades of J: formatting and conventions

[chris burke]

Jan-Pieter

Thanks for taking on that chapter.

0. Yes, a Note with the J examples should be added to the script if
possible, as in the example
http://code.jsoftware.com/mediawiki/images/4/45/Fsojc44.ijs . You need to
get the example texts anyway when checking the page, so may as well add
them to the script.

You need to login before you can make any changes or upload a file.

1. We chose to not highlight all English names of primitives, but do allow
for italics on when a name is introduced. There is also a link to the J
Glossary at the head of each page, so words can be quickly referenced.

We did discuss this issue. The problem with highlighting all English names
used in J is that the text becomes rather fussy and I think is overall
harder to read. The use of  for J inline code already goes a long way
towards making the content easily readable. Otherwise, as Ian says, a
minimalist approach seems best.

Incidentally, you can address issues to the general forum, thanks.

Chris


On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Jan-Pieter Jacobs <
janpieter.jac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've put my name on chapter 2 of fsoj, and read through the article on the
> wiki page, and I have some questions and proposals:
>
> 0. The script: from the project's editing guidelines, it's not very clear
> whether the "Note" containing a copy of all J examples scattered through
> the text should be part of the script or not. Furthermore, it seems I
> cannot upload a new version of the script either (I get a permission
> error).
>
> 1. The chapter I picked seems quite loaded with the English names of the
> primitives (like under for &.). Currently, it seems that in the text, these
> occurrences are not indicated in any way, for instance: "To compose (&)
> logs with addition gives the logarithm of a product" and " the
> multiplication process can be completed by using under (&.)". In my
> opinion, the lack of difference between words in their J-specific and
> standard English meaning renders the text unclear.
>
> However, the fsoj guidelines and the J wiki style guide do not indicate a
> common way of indicating English names for J words (only J code and J
> names, which, as I understand are names that are actually defined in a
> session).
>
> Are there proposals for making the English names of J parts of speech stand
> out in the text? Like capitalizing them as done in the Vocabulary, or
> enclosing them in  tags (albeit I find that with the current CSS they
> do not stand out very well either)? Or use italics, even if the fsoj
> editing guidelines say only to use them for terms when first introduced?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jan-Pieter
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] chat vs programming

[chris burke]

Jane

Sorry, your earlier post to chat was not received at all. I could not find
it in spam. Please resend it to chat, and send a copy to me, thanks.

Chris

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:00 AM, jane dalley 
wrote:

> Chris, as per your comments here I sent a post to chat on Sunday.  Did it
> go to spam?
>
> Jane
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] chat vs programming

[chris burke]

Hi All

There seems to be some confusion about the purpose of the chat and
programming forums. Just to recap:

Use programming if the post is in any way related to J programming or your
use of J. Use chat otherwise, i.e. if it is not specifically about J but
may be of interest to the J community and other users of array languages.

Note that everyone who reads the forums reads programming, but many do not
bother with chat.

For example, Ian's message on the stdlib load verb is most certainly
related to the use of J, and is of wide interest. Please lets discuss this
on programming. Thanks.

Chris
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[chris burke]

As well as the wiki docs, it can be helpful to view the event data as you
move the mouse or click on the display with:

  showevents_jqtide_ 2

Most of these demos (including eigenpic) were written some years back when
wd was primarily geared towards Windows Forms. If you compare the old and
current code, there are only minor changes in the form definitions, and
none in the event handling mechanism. So you should not think of wd as
specific to Qt, but just a way for J to communicate with a UI.


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 8:02 PM, Dabrowski, Andrew John <
dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:

> Got it.
>
> EigenPicture is cool.  Does it get the xy-coordinates of the mouse from
> sysdata?  Where is sysdata documented?
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[chris burke]

Tony

To unsubscribe or change your forum options, see
http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/System/Forums#Options.2FUnsubscribe .

If you like, I can unsubscribe you. However, you might also consider
getting forum messages as a digest.

Chris


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:24 PM, Antony McCardell <t...@antonymccardell.com>
wrote:

> Hi Chris
>
> I need urgently to unsubscribe to J chat. Currently I am unable to
> participate and my mailbox is becoming overloaded with J chat messages. I
> cannot see an "unsubscribe" button anyway. Can you please point me in the
> right direction?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 11/01/2018 12:21 AM, chris burke wrote:
>
>> After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.
>>>
>> The old form editor was needed because in the old days, there was no
>> layout
>> manager in the UI so controls had to be given an exact position on a form.
>> Fine-tuning this manually would have been tedious. However, there were
>> still problems, for example the layout that worked fine on one resolution
>> or OS may not have worked on another. I remember spending a great deal of
>> time on manually fixing up form editor output so forms worked properly
>> everywhere.
>>
>> However, Qt has a nice layout manager. Control positioning is easy and
>> just
>> works in all platforms.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 11:29 PM, Ric Sherlock <tikk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I can understand the appeal of the WYSIWYG aspect of the old form editor,
>>> but I much prefer the current system for designing and building forms. I
>>> spend much less time aligning controls perfectly and the form resizing
>>> behaviour is much better.
>>>
>>> As for the cross-platform experience, there is no contest - the current
>>> WD
>>> implementation is far superior in terms of functionality, reliability and
>>> appearance.
>>>
>>> I'm sure that the state of flux of GUI development from J6.02 to J8
>>> didn't
>>> help foster a plethora of GUI apps, but I think the paucity of GUI apps
>>> is
>>> primarily due to the focus of the majority of users than the facilities
>>> of
>>> the language.
>>>
>>> The GUI's I've developed are far from complex, but I've found them
>>> relatively easy and satisfying to build, and compare favourably with
>>> those
>>> of most other languages for GUI-based tasks on Rosetta code.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Björn Helgason <gos...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> J used to be great at making guis and had the best form editor on the
>>>> market.
>>>> After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.
>>>> I would love to have easier ways to create guis.
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jan 2018 18:57, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" <dabro...@indiana.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So it seems that J is not a self-contained language for making GUIs: you
>>>> also need to know either html and js or qt.  Clojure has the significant
>>>> advantage that the GUI code is in idiomatic Clojure.
>>>>
>>>> All I said was that J isn't a _good_ language for creating GUIs when
>>>> compared with Clojure, Python, or Java for example.  I would have
>>>> thought
>>>> that would be uncontroversial: in fact there are very few examples of
>>>>
>>> GUIs
>>>
>>>> in the repo, and none are elaborate.  Evidently no one in the J
>>>> community
>>>> places a very high value on GUIs.
>>>>
>>>> Which is fine, not every language needs to be great at facilitating the
>>>> construction of GUIs, there's a place for scripting languages.  I'm
>>>> happy
>>>> to grant J the distinction of being a superb calculation and scripting
>>>> language, but for GUIs it happens to be mediocre.
>>>>
>>>> On 01/09/2018 03:02 AM, Björn Helgason wrote:
>>>>
>>>> JHS is using HTML as a front end.
>>>> There are numerous ways of interacting with HTML tools.
>>>> You can see examples and demos doing gui/graphics etc and mixing with
>>>> javascripts.
>>>> It may be difficult to distinguish between what is J/Javascript.
>>>>
>>>> On 8 Jan 2018 22:13, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" <dabro...@indiana.edu
>>>>
>>>

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[chris burke]

> I can't find them in the Showcase, either in Gallery or Studio, could you
give me another hint?

These are the demos that can be accessed from within Jqt, not the wiki
pages.


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Dabrowski, Andrew John <
dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:

> I can't find them in the Showcase, either in Gallery or Studio, could you
> give me another hint?
> 
> From: Chat <chat-boun...@forums.jsoftware.com> on behalf of chris burke <
> cbu...@jsoftware.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:03 PM
> To: c...@jsoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of
> the  past
>
> Actually quite a few of the Showcase demos use mouse events, e.g. coins,
> eigenpictures, events, isigrid, solitaire etc.
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:58 AM, chris burke <cbu...@jsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
> > > There should be demos that illustrate mouse events.
> >
> > The old paint demo is at Help|Studio|Showcase|isigraph|Extras|Paint .
> >
> > To see the events in the Term window, first enter:
> >
> > showevents_jqtide_ 2
> >
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[chris burke]

Actually quite a few of the Showcase demos use mouse events, e.g. coins,
eigenpictures, events, isigrid, solitaire etc.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:58 AM, chris burke <cbu...@jsoftware.com> wrote:

> > There should be demos that illustrate mouse events.
>
> The old paint demo is at Help|Studio|Showcase|isigraph|Extras|Paint .
>
> To see the events in the Term window, first enter:
>
> showevents_jqtide_ 2
>
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[chris burke]

> After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.

The old form editor was needed because in the old days, there was no layout
manager in the UI so controls had to be given an exact position on a form.
Fine-tuning this manually would have been tedious. However, there were
still problems, for example the layout that worked fine on one resolution
or OS may not have worked on another. I remember spending a great deal of
time on manually fixing up form editor output so forms worked properly
everywhere.

However, Qt has a nice layout manager. Control positioning is easy and just
works in all platforms.


On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 11:29 PM, Ric Sherlock  wrote:

> I can understand the appeal of the WYSIWYG aspect of the old form editor,
> but I much prefer the current system for designing and building forms. I
> spend much less time aligning controls perfectly and the form resizing
> behaviour is much better.
>
> As for the cross-platform experience, there is no contest - the current WD
> implementation is far superior in terms of functionality, reliability and
> appearance.
>
> I'm sure that the state of flux of GUI development from J6.02 to J8 didn't
> help foster a plethora of GUI apps, but I think the paucity of GUI apps is
> primarily due to the focus of the majority of users than the facilities of
> the language.
>
> The GUI's I've developed are far from complex, but I've found them
> relatively easy and satisfying to build, and compare favourably with those
> of most other languages for GUI-based tasks on Rosetta code.
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Björn Helgason  wrote:
>
> > J used to be great at making guis and had the best form editor on the
> > market.
> > After the fom editor was dropped we have been struggling.
> > I would love to have easier ways to create guis.
> >
> > On 9 Jan 2018 18:57, "Dabrowski, Andrew John" 
> > wrote:
> >
> > So it seems that J is not a self-contained language for making GUIs: you
> > also need to know either html and js or qt.  Clojure has the significant
> > advantage that the GUI code is in idiomatic Clojure.
> >
> > All I said was that J isn't a _good_ language for creating GUIs when
> > compared with Clojure, Python, or Java for example.  I would have thought
> > that would be uncontroversial: in fact there are very few examples of
> GUIs
> > in the repo, and none are elaborate.  Evidently no one in the J community
> > places a very high value on GUIs.
> >
> > Which is fine, not every language needs to be great at facilitating the
> > construction of GUIs, there's a place for scripting languages.  I'm happy
> > to grant J the distinction of being a superb calculation and scripting
> > language, but for GUIs it happens to be mediocre.
> >
> > On 01/09/2018 03:02 AM, Björn Helgason wrote:
> >
> > JHS is using HTML as a front end.
> > There are numerous ways of interacting with HTML tools.
> > You can see examples and demos doing gui/graphics etc and mixing with
> > javascripts.
> > It may be difficult to distinguish between what is J/Javascript.
> >
> > On 8 Jan 2018 22:13, "Dabrowski, Andrew John"  > > > dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > After reading "Algebra as Language" and "Computers and Mathematical
> > Notation", I'm starting to see J the perfect language for numerical
> > computation.  But for general purpose programming I can see Dijkstra's
> > point.
> >
> > When APL was designed computers were seen largely as calculating
> > machines.  But by the 1970s GUIs were starting to be developed, and
> > computers were being applied in areas where tensors were no longer
> adequate
> > as the sole data structure.  One thing general purpose programming
> > languages must have is extensibility, and that J lacks.
> >
> > I'm trying to work out what the appropriate use cases are for J, and I
> > think it's calculating with tensors.  If you need more than tensors, or
> if
> > you need more than calculation (e.g. GUIs), J is not a good choice.
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> >
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] the language of the future for the programming of the past

[chris burke]

Some history may help:

Up to J6, the window driver (wd) was primarily designed for Windows forms.
It worked fine, I wrote several GUIs using it, and the J IDE itself was
written using it. There was also a version for Java that was much inferior.

After J6, we felt that wd needed major revision and that we should better
support other platforms, particularly with a cross platform UI. At that
time, browser based front ends were becoming common and that led to JHS, a
browser IDE.

For the desktop, we experimented with GTK in J7, initially without any wd
support. We then moved to Qt in J8, and have been able to bring wd up to
date. This at least explains why many of the original demos and labs became
obsolete - they could be reworked, but this wasn't essential. There is a
reasonably good sample set in Help|Studio|Qt Demos.

The current wd supports most standard Qt controls, so allows building Qt
forms from J. Again I think this works fine and entirely adequate for
building simple GUIs. For more sophisticated applications you can use any
UI and call J.


On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Joe Bogner  wrote:

> To add some evidence to my opinion -- Here's a simple one that I built a
> few years ago: http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/User:Joe_Bogner/StockViewer
>
> I am certainly no expert in J GUI programming, yet I would still be
> surprised if a 'better' language at GUI programming yielded significantly
> shorter, more clear code, without having to download and learn a bunch of
> libraries
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Joe Bogner  wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 10:11 PM, Dabrowski, Andrew John <
> > dabro...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, that was nice.  But I don't think anyone actually believes J is
> >> _good_ language for creating GUIs; just a possible one.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I've built a few GUIs in J and have had my share of building applications
> > using the Win32 API, gtk, .NET (winforms and XAML), Visual Basic, java
> > (desktop and android), TCL/TK,  and countless web frameworks.
> >
> > I do think J is a good language for creating GUIs. It's simple and
> > powerful. It reminds me a bit of visual basic with the event handlers
> with
> > the power of Qt and the everything that comes along with J. It's one of
> the
> > better and more enjoyable options I've used.
> >
> > If you haven't tried it, I'd suggest checking out the demos,
> documentation
> > and try building a simple app.
> >
> >
> >
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] CodeGolf

[chris burke]

> the use of predefined subfunctions (Inv) is frowned upon!

inv is just:  ^:_1



On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Richard Donovan 
wrote:

> Bravo Raul!
>
> That's a lot shorter, although the Line-break will be counted, and the use
> of predefined subfunctions (Inv) is frowned upon!
>
> As far as I know there isn't a prize but I'm sure your idea is now up with
> the front runners!  Are you going to post it for the kudos (and of course
> to promote J)? If you don't want to set up an account I could post it
> giving you full credit of course!
>
> Richard
>
> > On 13 Mar 2017, at 18:19, Raul Miller  wrote:
> >
> > F=:86400%~24 60 60#.]
> >   T=:F inv ::([:F 2 5}~&' ')
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] March PragPub

[chris burke]

This was posted to comp.lang.apl:

Mar 2

Hi APL-ers,

There is a new article or three in the March 2017 issue of PragPub.
If you have never seen it before, it is a monthly periodical with short
articles on various aspects of programming and software development.

The articles show a bit of APL and J.

The article titles are:
  - Beyond Functional Programming with the J Language
  - Alien Voices from Planet J
  - The Roots of J

Here is a link to PragPub:
http://theprosegarden.com/contents-of-recent-issues/#03-17
I believe it is $2.00 for the issue, or you can get a subscription.


Nick
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Saving Programs and Variables Permanently for Future Use

[chris burke]

Ah, just noticed that the link points to the old wiki. The correct page
should be:

code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Doc/J4APL#Workspaces_and_Scripts

On 12 December 2015 at 20:29, chris burke <cbu...@jsoftware.com> wrote:

> See www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Doc/J4APL#Workspaces_and_Scripts .
>
> On 12 December 2015 at 19:22, 'Rodney Nicholson' via Chat <
> c...@jsoftware.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks:
>> I am completely new to J, but I have fairly extensive experience from
>> programming in APL years ago.  So I am not finding it difficult to figure
>> out enough about J to satisfy my present rather simple programming needs.
>> However, in APL I was used to working in a workspace and then saving it -
>> ')save name' I recall - and loading it when I needed it again.
>> I have had no trouble finding a J 'workspace' nor manipulating data in it
>> using simple J code, but when I go to FILE and save it, it gets called
>> ~temp/1.ijs or ~temp/2.ijs ..  .  I need to know how to name and save
>> permanently so I can reliably retrieve my previous software and data.
>> Oddly, I have not come across this information in any of the learning
>> material I have seen so far.  Directions to this one piece of information
>> will transform my entire weekend!
>> Please  : ^ )))
>>
>> Help will be much appreciated.  Thank you in advance.
>> Rodney.
>> --
>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
>
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Saving Programs and Variables Permanently for Future Use

[chris burke]

See www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Doc/J4APL#Workspaces_and_Scripts .

On 12 December 2015 at 19:22, 'Rodney Nicholson' via Chat <
c...@jsoftware.com> wrote:

> Hi folks:
> I am completely new to J, but I have fairly extensive experience from
> programming in APL years ago.  So I am not finding it difficult to figure
> out enough about J to satisfy my present rather simple programming needs.
> However, in APL I was used to working in a workspace and then saving it -
> ')save name' I recall - and loading it when I needed it again.
> I have had no trouble finding a J 'workspace' nor manipulating data in it
> using simple J code, but when I go to FILE and save it, it gets called
> ~temp/1.ijs or ~temp/2.ijs ..  .  I need to know how to name and save
> permanently so I can reliably retrieve my previous software and data.
> Oddly, I have not come across this information in any of the learning
> material I have seen so far.  Directions to this one piece of information
> will transform my entire weekend!
> Please  : ^ )))
>
> Help will be much appreciated.  Thank you in advance.
> Rodney.
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Interesting talk "How did we end up Here?"

[chris burke]

> ...OOP itself, seems to be used little

I prefer to say that OOP can be used where appropriate. Some packages like
Jd make heavy use of OOP.

What J doesn't do is force you to use OOP where it is unnecessary.


On 25 September 2015 at 21:41, Jon Hough  wrote:

> Well, one point they make is the awfulness of shared mutable state between
> threads. I suppose J solved that by being single threaded.
> Others...
>
> Bad architectural designs and abstractions...   well, I don't know what
> kind of abstractions are generally used in J. OOP patterns seem to be used
> little (OOP itself, seems to be used little). J seems to abstract
> everything in another direction, by abstracting algorithms and then letting
> them be composed in different ways and on different datatypes.
> Difficult to understand solutions (over engineering)...From what I see
> (bearing in mind I only use J as a hobby), there is little overall
> structure to J programs, in a Design Pattern sense. That is actually one
> reason I like using J, I can just get straight to the solution, with no
> ceremony, cruft, taking care of incidental issues... but then again, it is
> difficult to argue that a super long tacit verb is easy to understand or
> extend or modify.
> Bad use of agile and buzzword methodologies...I don't know if
> "enterprise J" users even use these kinds of methodologies. I can't see it
> being too different from other languages in this regard though. A standup
> meeting is a standup meeting after all. Incremental changes and feedback
> cycles don't change much with language, I suppose.
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 00:08:44 -0400
> > From: devon...@gmail.com
> > To: c...@jsoftware.com
> > Subject: Re: [Jchat] Interesting talk "How did we end up Here?"
> >
> > I'm only 17 minutes into it but they seem to be asking a lot of questions
> > and posing problems to which the array-language community has answers.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:39 PM, Jon Hough  wrote:
> >
> > > I thought this youtube talk from the Goto conference might interest
> some
> > > people here
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxjT7veKi9c
> > >
> > >
> > > Essentially, the two speakers are musing on why everything in software
> > > development is so terrible, convoluted, messy etc.
> > >
> > > It's quite long, but might be of interest to some people.
> > >
> > > I enjoyed the quip "The internet is basically in debug mode" as we are
> all
> > > passing around text data (JSON or XML etc), since I've been looking
> into
> > > protobufs (not with J!) binary serialization of data.
> > > --
> > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Devon McCormick, CFA
> > --
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] Spam filter issues

[chris burke]

This may be a problem with McAfee.

There have been no changes in forum email processing for some years.
However, every so often, maybe once or twice a year, google changes their
spam processing so as to identify ordinary forum posts as spam. Usually
when this happens the dip in traffic is obvious and I manually go through
the spam and get those messages posted; this seems to clear the spam
filters.

Apart from these episodes, google spam processing is pretty good, and it is
rare for a forum message to be treated as spam. Right now, there does not
seem to be a problem.

In any case, to check whether a forum post was received, visit the search
page at http://www.jsoftware.com/forumsearch and click the search button to
get the most recent messages, which are updated every few minutes.

On 10 September 2015 at 11:43, Joey K Tuttle  wrote:

> I use a McAfee (Intel) spam filtering service. Recently the service has
> been declaring many J forum messages to be 99.9% certainly spam (and
> quarantining them).
>
> Even after I release them from the quarantine, my Thunderbird email client
> consistently stuffs them into a Junk mail folder. This action may by
> triggered by some X- tags. e.g. for a recent Roger Stokes message -
>
> X-Spam-Flag: YES
> X-Spam: [F=0.999511; B=0.500(0); STSI=0.500(-6); STSM=0.450(-6);
> CM=0.500; CY=0.50; MH=0.999(2015091011); S=0.200(2015072901); spf=0.500;
> SC=]
> X-MAIL-FROM: 
>
> It is interesting that, in this particular message, 117 of 179 total lines
> are mail header information (31 of them being X-... information lines).
>
> Unfortunately, the only way McAfee/Intel will whitelist emails is by
> "From: " address or domain. I like the fact that the sender's email address
> shows up as the original sender's address - but the shortsighted
> whitelisting facility means that every forum member may need to be
> whitelisted - a major PITA...
>
> Since some of my quarantined messages were from people that are frequent
> posters in J Forums, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed such things
> (perhaps changing in the past few weeks).
>
> I suspect that some change in forum email processing (or maybe some
> "improvements" at gmail) may have precipitated this change in behavior.
>
> I may be forced to change my forum email address to one that doesn't go
> through a quarantine service - but I would prefer to avoid that.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about this?
>
> - joey
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] looking at recent stock market volatility with J

[chris burke]

Nice example, thanks.

I would encourage you to post this kind of example in the programming forum
rather than chat. Even better would be to make a wiki Essay on it.


On 1 September 2015 at 12:53, Joe Bogner  wrote:

> I recently invested in an S index fund - great timing, I know, so I
> figured I'd let J help calm my emotional response to the recent market
> volatility.
>
>
> The questions on my mind are:
>
> 1. Is this level of daily volatility extreme? -- restated as how common are
> 2% swings in daily close price (SOLVED)
>
> 2. Is it uncommon to have this much volatility over a two week period? --
> restated as how common are streaks of 2% change in price across multiple
> weeks (SOLVED)
>
> 3. How long does it take to recover after a period over period change of
> -5% (SOLVED)
>
> I set out to answer these questions:
>
> Step 1: Let's get some data
>
> require 'web/gethttp'
>
> NB. beware linebreak
> csv=: gethttp '
>
> http://real-chart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv?s=%5EGSPC=8=1=2015=d=0=3=1950=.csv
> '
>
> arr=: >  ',' cut each LF cut csv
>
> NB. closing price is 4th column
> close =: ". every 4{"1 }. arr
>
>
> QUESTION 1 - Daily volatility
>
> pctChange =: }: -&1@% }.
>
> NB. 708 days greater than 2% change from previous close
> (+/ 0.02 < | pctChange close)
> 708
>
> NB. 4% of the time since 1950
> (+/ 0.02 < | pctChange close) % (# close)
> 0.042852
>
>
> NB. 354 times since 2000
> ]c=. +/ 0.02 < | pctChange d=. ((1999 < ".  4&{. every dates) # close)
> 354
>
> NB. which is 9% of time...
> c%(#d)
> 0.0898477
>
> so +/ 2% swings is not exceptional, relatively uncommon but nothing to
> worry about
>
> QUESTION 2 - Volatility over a two week period
>
> NB. calculate the period close over 5 sessions
> periodClose=: _5({.)\ close
>
> NB. count of consecutive periods with more than 2% volatility
> NB.
> http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2014-October/039985.html
> [ c=.+/ 2 < ([*+)/\.&.|. d=. (0.02 < | pctChange periodClose)
> 131
>
> NB. 4% of the periods since 1950 had 3 or more weeks of 2% volatility
>c % (#d)
> 0.0396489
>
> NB. since 2000
> periodClose=: _5({.)\  ((1999 < ".  4&{. every dates) # close)
>
> NB. 50 times there have been 3 or more weeks of 2% volatility since 2000
> [ c=.+/ 2 < ([*+)/\.&.|. d=. (0.02 < | pctChange periodClose)
> 50
>
> NB. 6.3% of the time
>c % (#d)
> 0.0635324
>
> QUESTION 3 - Given a decline of 10% in two weeks, how long does it take to
> recover?
>
> NB. close at the end of 10 sessions
> periodClose=: _10({.)\ close
>
> NB. 59 times there's been more than 5% decline over 10 sessions
> [ +/ _.05 > pctChange periodClose
>
>
> These are some of the dates:
>
>,.  (I.  _.05 > pctChange periodClose) { (_10({.)\ dates)
> +--+
> |2015-08-31|
> +--+
> |2011-08-10|
> +--+
> |2010-07-01|
> +--+
> |2009-03-11|
> +--+
> |2009-02-25|
> +--+
> |2008-11-12|
> +--+
> |2008-10-15|
> +--+
> |2008-09-17|
> +--+
> |2008-01-15|
> +--+
> |2003-01-28|
> +--+
>
> This is starting to look more concerning
>
> Now, to find how long it takes to recover:
>
> Here are 10 instances:
>
> 10 {. (I.  _.05 > pctChange periodClose)
> 0 102 130 163 164 171 173 175 192 317
>
> A crude attempt:
>
> NB. find # of 10 day periods between period before y and period closing
> above that close
> findRecovery =: 3 : 'y - >./ I. ((y+1) { periodClose) < ((i. y) {
> periodClose)'
>
>
> NB. number of weeks between the 5% decline over two weeks and the recovery
> 2 * findRecovery every 10 {. (I.  _.05 > pctChange periodClose)
> _ 22 10 2 8 28 72 116 252 16
>
>
> 22 weeks to recover since the last time it was > 5% decline over two weeks
>
> Graphical (from yahoo charts)
> http://pasteboard.co/k1aGw1i.png
>
> I guess I'm not feeling as great now :), but at least it's not that
> uncommon and in each case it recovered
>
> Hope this helps anyone looking at today's market and/or wishing to play
> with J
>
> Happy to take any feedback on the approach as well.
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] [Jgeneral] Pygments and J

[chris burke]

I suggest that you don't spend time on this right now. We have some other
changes planned for the wiki, which will be announced in a few weeks.


On 20 April 2015 at 12:35, Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com wrote:

 That looks promising.

 I am going to be lazy here, and speculate (since I am really supposed to be
 doing something else right now):

 I wonder if anyone knows the pygments people? I imagine there's some minor
 issues keeping this from being a simple drop-in into the official pygments
 code base. That looks to be at
 https://bitbucket.org/birkenfeld/pygments-main/issues but ... I am
 ignorant
 here.

 (Meanwhile, I am glad that someone got J support into github, however they
 managed to get that to happen.)

 Thanks,

 --
 Raul

 On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Jan-Pieter Jacobs 
 janpieter.jac...@gmail.com wrote:

  In reply to Raul's mail on the General forum:
 
  I recently caught this on the #jsoftware IRC channel at freenode, which
  might be of interest:
  https://github.com/hoosierEE/pygments-j
 
  Jan-Pieter
 
  2015-04-20 20:54 GMT+02:00 Raul Miller rauldmil...@gmail.com:
 
   Followups to this post probably belong in chat forum?
  
   http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/SystemInfo currently tells me that we
 are
   running version 1.9.4 of MoinMoin wiki.
  
   Meanwhile, https://moinmo.in/HelpOnParsers#highlight_parser (actually,
  the
   short section just above that, but that url is so long I expect that
 most
   email systems would mangle it) tells me that this version of the wiki
   software supports Pygments for language parsing.
  
   And, looking at the list of languages supported, J really belongs on
 that
   list.
  
   Looking at the documentation on pygments -
   http://pygments.org/docs/lexerdevelopment/ - I think we should be able
  to
   implement a J word recognition mechanism.
  
   (That said, GeSHi - an alternative to pygments - already supports J -
  but I
   think it would be a bigger problem to convert the wiki documents to a
  wiki
   syntax for a wiki that uses GeSHi than it would be to just implement
   highlighting support for pygments.)
  
   I'm not sure if I'll have time for this project, but I wanted to leave
 a
   note here - which at least mentions the issue - in case someone else
 has
   the time.
  
   Thanks,
  
   --
   Raul
   --
   For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J Documentation

[chris burke]

Unfortunately, scriptdoc was never much used and has been abandoned.

A much better replacement was written by Ric, and can be see in the addons
svn in docs/joxygen. It has not been distributed as an addon yet. An
extended private version of this was used to build the standard library
help files at http://jsoftware.com/docs/help802/user/library.htm.

Ric and I just need time to merge the two and release it as an addon.

Any help with this would be much appreciated. Please contact us for the
latest version.


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jon Hough jgho...@outlook.com wrote:


 Sorry, I clicked send too soon.
 http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/Doxygen is a popular tool. It
 generates HTML files to view project documentation, heirarchies of objects,
 interfaces and whatnot. It's very useful.
 Also I half-found the answer to my question:
 http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/scriptdoc.htm

 From: jgho...@outlook.com
 To: c...@jsoftware.com
 Subject: J Documentation
 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:22:52 +0100




 Is there any documentation building tool for J?
 Couldn't find one on the website.
 For example for Java, C#, PHP at pretty much all mainstream languages
 Doxygen
 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J Documentation

[chris burke]

The private version does generate HTML - see the help link already given.


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Jon Hough jgho...@outlook.com wrote:

 Does / Will Joxygen generate HTML?
 I just browsed through the script and it seems to generate raw files and
 PDFs.

  From: cbu...@jsoftware.com
  Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:39:43 -0700
  To: c...@jsoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [Jchat] J Documentation
 
  Unfortunately, scriptdoc was never much used and has been abandoned.
 
  A much better replacement was written by Ric, and can be see in the
 addons
  svn in docs/joxygen. It has not been distributed as an addon yet. An
  extended private version of this was used to build the standard library
  help files at http://jsoftware.com/docs/help802/user/library.htm.
 
  Ric and I just need time to merge the two and release it as an addon.
 
  Any help with this would be much appreciated. Please contact us for the
  latest version.
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jon Hough jgho...@outlook.com wrote:
 
  
   Sorry, I clicked send too soon.
   http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/Doxygen is a popular tool. It
   generates HTML files to view project documentation, heirarchies of
 objects,
   interfaces and whatnot. It's very useful.
   Also I half-found the answer to my question:
   http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/scriptdoc.htm
  
   From: jgho...@outlook.com
   To: c...@jsoftware.com
   Subject: J Documentation
   Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:22:52 +0100
  
  
  
  
   Is there any documentation building tool for J?
   Couldn't find one on the website.
   For example for Java, C#, PHP at pretty much all mainstream languages
   Doxygen
   --
   For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
  
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] J Documentation

[chris burke]

Thanks Bob. I'll try to get a cleaner version of what we have up in the svn
over the next few days.


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:47 AM, robert therriault bobtherria...@mac.com
wrote:

 What sort of help are you looking for Chris?

 Anything that helps build documentation better/faster is something I think
 is of great importance. My skillset is a little unconventional but I'd love
 to help.

 cheers, bob

 On Aug 28, 2014, at 8:39 AM, chris burke cbu...@jsoftware.com wrote:

  Unfortunately, scriptdoc was never much used and has been abandoned.
 
  A much better replacement was written by Ric, and can be see in the
 addons
  svn in docs/joxygen. It has not been distributed as an addon yet. An
  extended private version of this was used to build the standard library
  help files at http://jsoftware.com/docs/help802/user/library.htm.
 
  Ric and I just need time to merge the two and release it as an addon.
 
  Any help with this would be much appreciated. Please contact us for the
  latest version.
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Jon Hough jgho...@outlook.com wrote:
 
 
  Sorry, I clicked send too soon.
  http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/Doxygen is a popular tool. It
  generates HTML files to view project documentation, heirarchies of
 objects,
  interfaces and whatnot. It's very useful.
  Also I half-found the answer to my question:
  http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/scriptdoc.htm
 
  From: jgho...@outlook.com
  To: c...@jsoftware.com
  Subject: J Documentation
  Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 16:22:52 +0100
 
 
 
 
  Is there any documentation building tool for J?
  Couldn't find one on the website.
  For example for Java, C#, PHP at pretty much all mainstream languages
  Doxygen
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
 
  --
  For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] problems

[chris burke]

 Some weeks ago I'd reported a considerable delay in loading JQT on my
Windows 8.1 notebook - have you tried that yet? When I restarted JQT just
now (using the latest J802 installation),  it took about a minute for the
terminal window to appear,  so it's still annoyingly slow to get going.

I just installed Windows 8.1 Enterprise Edition and J802. JQt loaded
immediately (1 second), first time and subsequent times.



On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Mike Day mike_liz@tiscali.co.uk
wrote:

 Some weeks ago I'd reported a considerable delay in loading JQT on my
 Windows 8.1 notebook - have you tried that yet?
 When I restarted JQT just now (using the latest J802 installation),  it
 took about a minute for the terminal window to appear,  so it's still
 annoyingly slow to get going.

 However, task-manager starts almost immediately for me,  using
 ctrl-alt-del and then selecting Task Manager.

 FWIW,  I'm not keen on all those apps which are Windows 8's default mode,
   preferring the desktop view,  and also use something called Classic
 Start Menu 4.0.6 to navigate to programs not on the desktop.

 Mike


 On 10/07/2014 02:55, Raul Miller wrote:

 What's bothering me currently is ~93% idle time on windows 8.1 and minutes
 to start programs ( like task manager ) and many seconds of delays typing
 even five characters into a search box.

 It's beyond stupid.

 I have nothing against brute force coding, nor against old languages or
 whatever, but I do expect some level of understandable characteristics.




 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7824 - Release Date: 07/09/14


 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] problems

[chris burke]

I retested this by rebooting Windows 8.1 and loading JQt. I now find that
the initial load of J takes about 4 seconds, and subsequent loads 1
second.

The first time I had tested was immediately after installation, and perhaps
whatever initialization needed by Windows was done during the installation
itself.

So it looks like a few seconds are needed the first time JQt is loaded, and
otherwise it is essentially immediate.

Mike's problem is most likely related to his machine or other software that
he has installed.



On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 10:29 AM, chris burke cbu...@jsoftware.com wrote:

  Some weeks ago I'd reported a considerable delay in loading JQT on my
 Windows 8.1 notebook - have you tried that yet? When I restarted JQT just
 now (using the latest J802 installation),  it took about a minute for the
 terminal window to appear,  so it's still annoyingly slow to get going.

 I just installed Windows 8.1 Enterprise Edition and J802. JQt loaded
 immediately (1 second), first time and subsequent times.



 On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Mike Day mike_liz@tiscali.co.uk
 wrote:

 Some weeks ago I'd reported a considerable delay in loading JQT on my
 Windows 8.1 notebook - have you tried that yet?
 When I restarted JQT just now (using the latest J802 installation),  it
 took about a minute for the terminal window to appear,  so it's still
 annoyingly slow to get going.

 However, task-manager starts almost immediately for me,  using
 ctrl-alt-del and then selecting Task Manager.

 FWIW,  I'm not keen on all those apps which are Windows 8's default mode,
   preferring the desktop view,  and also use something called Classic
 Start Menu 4.0.6 to navigate to programs not on the desktop.

 Mike


 On 10/07/2014 02:55, Raul Miller wrote:

 What's bothering me currently is ~93% idle time on windows 8.1 and
 minutes
 to start programs ( like task manager ) and many seconds of delays typing
 even five characters into a search box.

 It's beyond stupid.

 I have nothing against brute force coding, nor against old languages or
 whatever, but I do expect some level of understandable characteristics.




 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7824 - Release Date: 07/09/14


 --
 For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm



--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jchat] Foundation Notation

[chris burke]

Don Watson asked me to post this on his behalf, and it should be of
interest to the chat forum:

--

There were two characteristics of APL in the 1960s that attracted people.
It was powerful and it was easy to teach - in fact I wrote a self-teaching
package that enabled APL to teach people the beginnings of how to use
itself - it got them started. My interest was in using it to teach
Mathematics and I was attracted by a 2 day conference Ken Iverson gave in
1968 on “The role of the computer in teaching”. When he moved on to J, a
powerful nature was his priority and Mathematics teaching was left behind.

The use of both Mathematics and Computing by professionals other than
mathematicians and computer scientists is decreasing in favour of black
boxes. Today, few professionals other than Computer Scientists model their
work by programming any more – as they did when APL was first available.
There was an interesting blog recently in the ACM that found that they
would model if it was in their own language. I interpret that as meaning
that they want something in the manner that spreadsheets provided when they
spoke the language of managers. Scientists and engineers don't program
because it is too much trouble.

The language of scientists and engineers is Mathematics. There is a huge
potential market for a computer language that uses mathematical notation
where you use tacit expressions. APL was born in the 1960s, when input and
output was based on one-dimensional typewriters. Mathematics is two
dimensional. This meant that Iverson was forced to compress a tree
structure into an artificial train structure. However, the Macintosh was
mass produced with a two-dimensional screen 30 years ago. I wish Iverson
had then begun allowing APL notation to become a mathematical tree
structure and removed the artificiality. Unfortunately, he stated in 1996
that Mathematics couldn't be processed by a computer - which isn't true.

A new software teaching tool bases Mathematics on functions, removing the
need for abstract operators in elementary school. It is based upon the use
of Mathematics expressions as a computer language - which was achieved with
a single change to Mathematics notation - by adding a different kind of
variable. Basing Mathematics on functions, where the action is, could unite
Mathematics and Computing in a common front that could bring about the
return of both as modelling methods.

I am almost 80 years of age and unable to contribute anything to the needs
of professionals. I have enough work to do expanding my “Foundation” system
to meet the needs of elementary and high schools to grade 12. J could
certainly be adapted for this purpose – all that is needed is to change the
front end to a tree structure. If J doesn't do it somebody else will. There
are other issues, like relating documentation to non-mathematicians and
returning to an elegant control structure as APL originally provided, but
that is simply achievable.

A paper with embedded videos at the website
www.FoundationNotation.comdemonstrates how Foundation works and
explains why it works. So far
Foundation has been implemented as a Macintosh app and an Ipad app.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jchat] APL character support (moved to Chat)

[chris burke]

 The problem I am trying to point out is that the characters in _128{.a
fall
 in a no-man's land. They are ambiguous. Sometimes they are treated like
 8-bit extended ASCII. Sometimes they are treated like UTF-8 compression
 characters.

I don't agree that _128{.a. fall into a no-man's land.

J text is utf8, so _128{.a. are ordinary bytes. They are not any kind of
characters, since they are not valid utf8.

Earlier versions of J (J5 and earlier?) treated them as 8-bit extended
ASCII, but this is no longer the case.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Don Guinn dongu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Everybody wants to talk about handling APL characters. I'm for that too,
 but first we need to make it clear on how to handle UTF-8 or UTF-whatever.
 The problem I am trying to point out is that the characters in _128{.a fall
 in a no-man's land. They are ambiguous. Sometimes they are treated like
 8-bit extended ASCII. Sometimes they are treated like UTF-8 compression
 characters.

u,U
 þþ
 shows how display got confused. Is it supposed to display UTF-8? Or is it
 supposed to display 8-bit extended ASCII? Looks like it ran into an error
 attempting to display it as UTF-8 so it switched to 8-bit extended ASCII.
 : output is always literal. So
#:u,U
 6
a.i.:u,U
 195 131 194 190 195 190
 switched all the 8-bit extended ASCII to UTF-8. But sometimes it just puts
 in � when it can't figure out what to do. Maybe it should have displayed
 the 8-bit extended ASCII instead. The trouble is that the character þ is
 ambiguous.

 The reason why 7 u: 254{a. is an error is because 7 u. specifically has
 UTF-8 or ASCII as a right argument. 254{a. is neither. It is what I have
 been calling 8-bit extended ASCII.

 Before we can even hope to effectively deal with APL characters we need to
 be very clear on how to handle UTF-8.
 --
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