Re: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."

[Quinn Bastian]

It is unfortunate that given Stalin’s nature and history, this story while 
amusing, would also be so believable.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Jonathan Hayes 
mailto:chateaustegosau...@att.net>> wrote:

Nice to know there was a happy ending!

Jonathan



From: Richard Langworth mailto:rich...@langworth.name>>
To: ChurchillChat 
mailto:churchillchat@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 1:13 PM
Subject: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Hayes wrote:
There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after a 
"strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his lack 
of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is my 
recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to Stalin. It 
came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The interpreter 
has been shot."

Jonathan,
Ah, but it gets even better than that. I have this from grandson Winston 
(1940-2010, R.I.P.):

"In 1942, as you know, my grandfather went to Moscow to tell Stalin there would 
be no Second Front anytime soon. The conversation left both of them infuriated. 
In the early 1990s, I happened to meet Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter. I’d 
always wanted to know, I asked him, whether, in Soviet circles, there’s 
anything to this story

"Allegedly my grandfather, back at his embassy, never one to hold a grudge, 
pens a private note to Stalin: 'The hour was late, we both said things we 
regret,let us expunge it from the record and start again tomorrow.' And Stalin 
supposedly replies, 'The hour was indeed late, we both said things we regret, 
we shall start over, and the only witness to our conversation was the 
interpreter…..who has been shot.'

“'That is a very amusing story,' said Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter…. 'But I 
can assure you, Mr. Churchill, my father lived a long and productive life.'”

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Re: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."

[Jonathan Hayes]

Nice to know there was a happy ending!
Jonathan


  From: Richard Langworth 
 To: ChurchillChat  
 Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 1:13 PM
 Subject: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."
   
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Hayes wrote:
There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after a 
"strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his lack 
of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is my 
recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to Stalin. It 
came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The interpreter 
has been shot."

Jonathan,Ah, but it gets even better than that. I have this from grandson 
Winston (1940-2010, R.I.P.):
"In 1942, as you know, my grandfather went to Moscow to tell Stalin there would 
be no Second Front anytime soon. The conversation left both of them infuriated. 
In the early 1990s, I happened to meet Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter. I’d 
always wanted to know, I asked him, whether, in Soviet circles, there’s 
anything to this story
"Allegedly my grandfather, back at his embassy, never one to hold a grudge, 
pens a private note to Stalin: 'The hour was late, we both said things we 
regret,let us expunge it from the record and start again tomorrow.' And Stalin 
supposedly replies, 'The hour was indeed late, we both said things we regret, 
we shall start over, and the only witness to our conversation was the 
interpreter…..who has been shot.'
“'That is a very amusing story,' said Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter…. 'But I 
can assure you, Mr. Churchill, my father lived a long and productive life.'” -- 
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Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour

[Richard Langworth]

Another one, just sentReply to Jane Crowther, editor, *Total Film* 
magazine, 
UK, relayed by Lady Gilbert

-- Forwarded message --

Dear Jane Crowther,

Subject to my colleague Mr Geiger, some tentative answers to your questions:

*Q: Did Winston Churchill ever use public transport while PM, particularly 
the tube?*

​Not to my knowledge. His daughter Lady Soames told me he only used the 
Underground once, and became so lost that he had to be rescued. ​

*Q: Did Churchill ever solicit opinions from the general public about 
government policies?*

​Did he ask them point-blank what to do, as he does in the film? Not in 
that way. But I think the film tries to convey that he took his cue from 
them in his many visits with them—particularly when touring Blitz damage in 
London, Bristol, Coventry, etc. Typical is this note in his memoir *Their 
Finest Hour *(Cassell, 1949, 307-08), on visiting bomb damage in Peckham, 
South London:

*​'When my car was recognised the people came running from all quarters, 
and a crowd of more than a thousand was soon gathered. All these folk were 
in a high state of enthusiasm. They crowded round us, cheering and 
manifesting every sign of lively affection, wanting to touch and stroke my 
clothes. One would have thought I had brought them some fine substantial 
benefit which would improve their lot in life. I was completely undermined, 
and wept. Ismay, who was with me,​ ​records that he heard an old woman say: 
"You see, he really cares. He's crying." They were tears not of sorrow but 
of wonder and admiration. "But see, look here," they said, and drew me to 
the centre of the ruins. There was an enormous crater, perhaps forty yards 
across and twenty feet deep. Cocked up at an angle on the very edge was an 
Anderson shelter, and we were greeted at its twisted doorway by a youngish 
man, his wife, and three children, quite unharmed but obviously 
shell-jarred. They had been there at the moment of the explosion. They 
could give no account of their experiences. But there they were, and proud 
of it. Their neighbours regarded them as enviable curiosities. When we got 
back into the car a harsher mood swept over this haggard crowd. "Give it 
'em back", they cried, and "Let them have it too." I undertook forthwith to 
see that their wishes were carried out; and this promise was certainly 
kept​.'​*

*Q: Although we accept that the screenplay is a dramatisation of events, is 
it at all likely that Churchill would have left a government car for a 
no-security ride on the tube and to talk to the people before such an 
important speech? If not, why not?*

​He was totally fearless, and left his car often throughout the Blitz to 
walk about in scenes like the above. Likewise, he constantly tried to get 
near the fighting on visit to the various fronts, and hied to Ministry 
rooftops with binoculars to observe incoming bombers. The problem with the 
Underground scene (and the scene where the King tells Churchill to ask the 
people if he should fight on) is not dramatic license
​—which as you say one expects. The problem is that it​
 misrepresent
​​s
 Churchill’s character and resolution. 

As I said to Troy Bramston in an interview for *The Australian, *
​of course he
 had doubts about the outcome—
​who would not? But he ​
never 
​doubted
 the right course for Britain. Later 
​he
 said, “it was the nation and raced dwelling round the globe that had the 
lion heart.” But it was he who inspired them
​. See: 
https://richardlangworth.com/darkest-hour-movie-interview-australian

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Re: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot...."

['Antoine Capet' via ChurchillChat]

Dear Richard,

Simply magnificent ! You must find a way of including that in your next book, 
otherwise it will be lost – which would be a great pity !

A.C.

Professor Antoine CAPET, FRHistS
Head of British Studies
University of Rouen
76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan
France
antoine.ca...@univ-rouen.fr

'Britain since 1914' Section Editor
Royal Historical Society Bibliography

Reviews Editor of CERCLES
http://www.cercles.com/review/reviews.html
==



From: Richard Langworth 
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 9:58 PM
To: ChurchillChat 
Subject: [ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot"

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Hayes wrote: 
  There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after a 
"strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his lack 
of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is my 
recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to Stalin. It 
came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The interpreter 
has been shot."


Jonathan,
Ah, but it gets even better than that. I have this from grandson Winston 
(1940-2010, R.I.P.):


"In 1942, as you know, my grandfather went to Moscow to tell Stalin there would 
be no Second Front anytime soon. The conversation left both of them infuriated. 
In the early 1990s, I happened to meet Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter. I’d 
always wanted to know, I asked him, whether, in Soviet circles, there’s 
anything to this story


"Allegedly my grandfather, back at his embassy, never one to hold a grudge, 
pens a private note to Stalin: 'The hour was late, we both said things we 
regret,let us expunge it from the record and start again tomorrow.' And Stalin 
supposedly replies, 'The hour was indeed late, we both said things we regret, 
we shall start over, and the only witness to our conversation was the 
interpreter…..who has been shot.'


“''That is a very amusing story,' said Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter…. 'But I 
can assure you, Mr. Churchill, my father lived a long and productive life.'”

 





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[ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot..."

[Richard Langworth]

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Hayes wrote:
>
> There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after 
> a "strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his 
> lack of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is 
> my recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to 
> Stalin. It came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The 
> interpreter has been shot."
>

Jonathan,
Ah, but it gets even better than that. I have this from grandson Winston 
(1940-2010, R.I.P.):

"In 1942, as you know, my grandfather went to Moscow to tell Stalin there 
would be no Second Front anytime soon. The conversation left both of them 
infuriated. In the early 1990s, I happened to meet Mikhail Gorbachev’s 
interpreter. I’d always wanted to know, I asked him, whether, in Soviet 
circles, there’s anything to this story

"Allegedly my grandfather, back at his embassy, never one to hold a grudge, 
pens a private note to Stalin: 'The hour was late, we both said things we 
regret,let us expunge it from the record and start again tomorrow.' And Stalin 
supposedly replies, 'The hour was indeed late, we both said things we 
regret, we shall start over, and the only witness to our conversation was 
the interpreter…..who has been shot.'

“'That is a very amusing story,' said Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter…. 
'But I can assure you, Mr. Churchill, my father lived a long and productive 
life.'”

 

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[ChurchillChat] "The interpreter...has been shot...."

[Richard Langworth]

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:55:26 AM UTC-5, Jonathan Hayes wrote:
>
> There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after 
> a "strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his 
> lack of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is 
> my recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to 
> Stalin. It came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The 
> interpreter has been shot."
>

Jonathan,
Ah, but it gets even better than that. I have this from grandson Winston 
(1940-2010, R.I.P.):

"In 1942, as you know, my grandfather went to Moscow to tell Stalin there 
would be no Second Front anytime soon. The conversation left both of them 
infuriated. In the early 1990s, I happened to meet Mikhail Gorbachev’s 
interpreter. I’d always wanted to know, I asked him, whether, in Soviet 
circles, there’s anything to this story

"Allegedly my grandfather, back at his embassy, never one to hold a grudge, 
pens a private note to Stalin: 'The hour was late, we both said things we 
regret,let us expunge it from the record and start again tomorrow.' And Stalin 
supposedly replies, 'The hour was indeed late, we both said things we 
regret, we shall start over, and the only witness to our conversation was 
the interpreter…..who has been shot.'

“''That is a very amusing story,' said Mikhail Gorbachev’s interpreter…. 
'But I can assure you, Mr. Churchill, my father lived a long and productive 
life.'”

 
 

 

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Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour

[Jonathan Hayes]

There is a totally apocryphal story that I like.  Churchill woke up after a 
"strenuous evening" with Stalin at the Kremlin.  He was horrified by his lack 
of memory at what went on and hurriedly dictate a memo titled "this is my 
recollection of what we discussed last night" and sent it over to Stalin.
It came back with a cover note from Stalin:  "I was drunk too.  The interpreter 
has been shot."
Jonathan Hayes


  From: johnmather via ChurchillChat 
 To: churchillchat@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 10:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour
   
Dear Andrew,
I resonate strongly with what you have written here.  I have long studied the 
issue of WSC's imbibing of alcoholic potables. Besides his own overstatements 
of the quantity he had of wine, champagne, whisky and port, the whisky was a 
"whisky soda".  Lady Mary Soames showed me how it was prepared and said that if 
she did not get it just right Papa would say "Oh no my dear that is too 
strong".  He would freshen his "whisky soda", sometimes just with soda water, 
forgetting the Johnnie Walker Red whisky, all day. Medically it is interesting 
to speculate on what this did for his coronary arteries. 

He has only ever been documented to be drunk once (that is he was 'tiddly'  & 
the 'worse for wear') He was with Anthony Eden on Moscow during WW2. Ask his 
British Security Guard who drove the jeep there in Moscow between the Kremlin 
(supper and vodka drinks with Stalin)  and their hotel. . The time Lord 
Allanbrook thought WSC was drunk was when he, "Brookie", awakened WSC early 
into his afternoon nap and WSC had just taken his usual "barbiturate" pill to 
sleep.
So let's also understand that WSC usually drank with meals that were often 
extended affairs with each course punctuated by enlivening conversation.  Oh to 
have been a fly on the wall!
John H. Mather MD FACPE
PS Did he have a liver with large amounts of alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme?
In a message dated 1/4/2018 11:58:42 PM Central Standard Time, ed...@lisco.com 
writes:

 The ‘mobilized the English language’ quote was Edward R Murrow, used by JFK 
without attribution when making WSC an American citizen.
I found the Underground scene moving, however absurd, largely due to Oldman’s 
masterly timing, gesture etc. Unexpectedly, it was one of his best scenes. An 
example of good use of dramatic license, as was the notion that the King, 
Clemmie etc. could listen on the radio from the House, a service which actually 
had to wait until 1975. 
The only details that grated to me were Churchill portrayed yet again gulping 
whisky as if it were fruit juice, and the ‘success is not final’ quotation 
plastered across the screen at the end, and attributed directly. I, as I am 
sure did others, felt a silent scream from Richard Langworth! Surely the 
director must have known? It is one thing to have dramatic license in dialogue 
or setting - quite another to ascribe a quotation directly that Churchill did 
not say. A perverse choice, in an otherwise excellent movie, well acted from 
top to bottom. I particularly liked Ronald Pickup as Chamberlain, and Ben 
Mendelsohn as the King. Gary Oldman led from the cast from the front - as did 
his character. Bravo! 

- Andrew Edlin
churchillplay.com

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Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour

[Richard Langworth]

Sorry, the first (red) URL below (my site) should be: 
*http://bit.ly/2CvNksE*


*And The Australian (second url) now seems to have a paywall.*
On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 8:06:02 AM UTC-5, Richard Langworth wrote:
>
> The problem with the Underground scene (and the scene where the King tells 
> Churchill to ask the people if he should fight on) is not dramatic license 
> but that they misrepresent Churchill’s character and resolution. As I said 
> to Troy Bramston in an interview for *The Australian, *WSC had doubts 
> about the outcome—never about the right course for Britain. Later Churchill 
> said, “it was the nation and raced dwelling round the globe that had the 
> lion heart.” But it was he who inspired them, not the other way round. See 
> http://bit.ly/2CVMdUc 
> 
>  
>
 
 

> Mr. Bramston’s thoughtful and accurate article is online. Despite threats 
> of a paywall, it seems to be readable in entirety: http://bit.ly/2CWaLN6 
> 
>
> Gary Oldman’s portrayal is a combination of talent and a sincere drive to 
> “find a way in,” as Robert Hardy used to say. Early on, he came to the 
> Hillsdale College Churchill Project and our President Larry Arnn, with 
> succinct questions about that time and which key books he should read. We 
> answered comprehensively. That is more than most actors would do, and I 
> think his portrayal greatly benefited by his studies.
>
> We were not, as far as I know, asked to vet the screenplay, or any of the 
> quotations. Plastering the non-quote “success is not final” at the end is a 
> resultant casualty, though not a biggie. See 
> https://richardlangworth.com/phoney-success, which has a link to what 
> Churchill *did* say about "success."
>

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Re: [ChurchillChat] Darkest Hour

[Richard Langworth]

The problem with the Underground scene (and the scene where the King tells 
Churchill to ask the people if he should fight on) is not dramatic license 
but that they misrepresent Churchill’s character and resolution. As I said 
to Troy Bramston in an interview for *The Australian, *WSC had doubts about 
the outcome—never about the right course for Britain. Later Churchill said, 
“it was the nation and raced dwelling round the globe that had the lion 
heart.” But it was he who inspired them, not the other way round. See 
http://bit.ly/2CVMdUc 

Mr. Bramston’s thoughtful and accurate article is online. Despite threats 
of a paywall, it seems to be readable in entirety: http://bit.ly/2CWaLN6

Gary Oldman’s portrayal is a combination of talent and a sincere drive to 
“find a way in,” as Robert Hardy used to say. Early on, he came to the 
Hillsdale College Churchill Project and our President Larry Arnn, with 
succinct questions about that time and which key books he should read. We 
answered comprehensively. That is more than most actors would do, and I 
think his portrayal greatly benefited by his studies.

We were not, as far as I know, asked to vet the screenplay, or any of the 
quotations. Plastering the non-quote “success is not final” at the end is a 
resultant casualty, though not a biggie. See 
https://richardlangworth.com/phoney-success, which has a link to what 
Churchill *did* say about "success."

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[ChurchillChat] Re: Darkest Hour

[Richard Langworth]

 

The problem with the Underground scene (and the scene where the King tells 
Churchill to ask the people if he should fight on) is not dramatic license 
but that they misrepresent Churchill’s character and resolution. As I said 
to Troy Bramston in an interview for *The Australian, *WSC had doubts about 
the outcome—never about the right course for Britain. Later Churchill said, 
“it was the nation and raced dwelling round the globe that had the lion 
heart.” But it was he who inspired them, not the other way round. See 
http://bit.ly/2CVMdUc

 

Mr. Bramston’s thoughtful and accurate article is online. Despite threats 
of a paywall, it seems to be readable in entirety: http://bit.ly/2CWaLN6

 

Gary Oldman’s portrayal is a combination of talent and a sincere drive to 
“find a way in,” as Robert Hardy used to say. Early on, he came to the 
Hillsdale College Churchill Project and our President Larry Arnn, with 
succinct questions about that time and which key books he should read. We 
answered comprehensively. That is more any most actors would do, and I 
think his portrayal greatly benefited by his studies.

 

We were not, as far as I know, asked to vet the screenplay, or any of the 
quotations. Plastering the non-quote “success is not final” at the end is a 
resultant casualty, though not a biggie. See 
https://richardlangworth.com/phoney-success, which has a link to what 
Churchill *did* say variously about “success.”  RML

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