Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
Hi, And Alan is probably closer to the truth with his 6.5 minute boot estimate than my 5 minute estimate. It's long enough to start packing a jump bag and preparing for a field trip :) ..which was exactly what i did the first time I remotely dealt with a 3750e stack - did the work, installed new IOS etc...did a reload...and waited. was about to get in the van when my pager blipped with an 'UP' :-) alan ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
Hi, The only downsides I've recognized are: * There is really no minimal interruption maintenance option for software upgrades. You can't do a failover / update / fail-back style rolling upgrade. Differing IOS versions across the stack will result in a reload and another master election. aye. the fact theres no 'rolling upgrade' or such is quite frustrating * They take FOREVER to boot (in the order of five minutes...) during which time the WHOLE STACK is unresponsive. 5 minutes? what have you dont to speed it up!!? seriously I'm sure its more like 6.5 mins * If you're really pushing the redundancy factor, they have a current limitation of 48 port-channels per stack. ..which sort of makes sense for a 48port model where each interface on each switch goes back to same remote system/server. but I get the issue you allude to if you have eg 4 members and want members 1/3 having dual-stacks to servers/switches and members 2/4 having dual-stacks to servers/switches I find the etherchannel support to be prettypowerful though...much more wholesome on the 3750 or 2975 than the 2960s - which has poor stacking (much lower speed, only 4 members in a stack) and far less port-channel capability.. 6 channels per stack IIRC * They're still pricey (3750Xs are better) the good/best switches to use usually are though beware the cheapy models alan ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
On 11/27/2010 4:23 AM, Alan Buxey wrote: I find the etherchannel support to be prettypowerful though...much more wholesome on the 3750 or 2975 than the 2960s - which has poor stacking (much lower speed, only 4 members in a stack) and far less port-channel capability.. 6 channels per stack IIRC The cross-chassis etherchannel does everything the fixed-chassis etherchannel does, except PAgP. 3560s/3750s will etherchannel load-balance on src/dst MAC/IP or xor of src/dst. 2950s/3550s only do src or dst MAC. And Alan is probably closer to the truth with his 6.5 minute boot estimate than my 5 minute estimate. It's long enough to start packing a jump bag and preparing for a field trip :) Jeff ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
On 26/11/2010 07:38, Christopher J. Wargaski wrote: The new 3560X does not offer StackWise 3560 switches are the same as the equivalent 3750 switches, except that they are the non-stacking models. If you open them up, you can even see the non-connected stack module locations on the motherboards. Nick ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
The 3750X being the obvious choice, the only alternative I can think is the juniper EX4200 series. The junipers perform slightly better if you're willing to go multivendor, but I think the cisco beats it in price. On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 2:38 AM, Christopher J. Wargaski war...@gmail.comwrote: Hey John-- The new 3560X does not offer StackWise; too bad, that would an excellent offering. The 2960 model does, but that really doesn't have the horsepower that the 3560 does. One thing you might want to consider is two 3560X switches, the 10G network module, four copper SFPs and two copper cables so that you can make a 20 Gbps link between the two. Certainly that comes nowhere close to the 64Gpbs StackWise link, but is may be less expensive. cjw Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:35:20 +1100 From: John Elliot johnellio...@hotmail.com To: cisco-nsp cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise? Message-ID: col111-w30c3bf0992085dcaf42e03da...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, We have an existing POP with 7200(G2) and a 3560 - The POP is growing a lot quicker than anticipated, and we have had to add another 3560 to accommodate new client eth connections...the 2nd 3560 is connected via PortChan to the 1st 3560(Not ideal). Before the POP becomes unmanageable, we are looking at replacing the 1st 3560 with 2 x 3750's(Or another switch available that offers stackwise, but can accommodate a growing number of vlans(We currently have ~250-300 in use)), and then use the 3560's for access layer to clients(With the 3560's having dual(PortChan) connectivity to each 3750. 2 Questions: - Are there any alternatives to the 3750 that we should be looking at?(Given budget restraints, and also space(RU) limitations) - We have a redundant 7200 onsite, that we manually copy the config to on each change...Is there a better(read automatic) way to do this?(Not HSRP/GLBP as the 7200 has upstream connectivity via ATM and only single connectivity is available) Thanks in advance for any suggestions. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
On 25/11/10 00:35, John Elliot wrote: Hi, We have an existing POP with 7200(G2) and a 3560 - The POP is growing a lot quicker than anticipated, and we have had to add another 3560 to accommodate new client eth connections...the 2nd 3560 is connected via PortChan to the 1st 3560(Not ideal). If you just want a layer2 switch, there are lots of options. A stack of 3750s, obviously. The new 2960S (haven't used these). Also worth a look are the Extreme SummitStack (x450, x460, x480) series devices. We use these and are very happy with them. They're fast, cheap, and pretty full featured. There are also Juniper EX series. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
Also worth a look are the Extreme SummitStack (x450, x460, x480) series devices. We use these and are very happy with them. They're fast, cheap, and pretty full featured. Features and functionality is fine. Unfortunately we've had way too high hardware failure rates for our X450s. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
On 26/11/10 16:32, sth...@nethelp.no wrote: Also worth a look are the Extreme SummitStack (x450, x460, x480) series devices. We use these and are very happy with them. They're fast, cheap, and pretty full featured. Features and functionality is fine. Unfortunately we've had way too high hardware failure rates for our X450s. Really? That surprises me. We've got 700 x450e and 130 x250e and haven't had an in-service hardware failure (I think - wouldn't swear to that). Certainly the failure rate is low. A couple of DoA's and one dead on burn-in. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
On 11/26/2010 10:44 AM, Keegan Holley wrote: The 3750X being the obvious choice, the only alternative I can think is the juniper EX4200 series. The junipers perform slightly better if you're willing to go multivendor, but I think the cisco beats it in price. stacked 3750s give you failover L3 SVIs by design (provided your uplinks are cross-chassis etherchannel) without the overhead/complications of HSRP, but they are pricey. With the 3750X series, if you stack more than two in a real routed (IPServices) stack, the other members must be at least IPBase. They do have a LANbase model that is essentially layer-2 only, but bear in mind (we learned the hard way) that it will NOT stack with the other license models of the 3750/3750E/3750X (it is essentially ignored). Jeff ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
stacked 3750s give you failover L3 SVIs by design (provided your uplinks are cross-chassis etherchannel) without the overhead/complications of HSRP, but they are pricey. With the 3750X series, if you stack more than two in a real routed (IPServices) stack, the other members must be at least IPBase. They do have a LANbase model that is essentially layer-2 only, but bear in mind (we learned the hard way) that it will NOT stack with the other license models of the 3750/3750E/3750X (it is essentially ignored). Thanks, so my options are 3750's, and I'll have single management across all 3750's implicitly, or 3560's and would need to run something like hsrp/GLBP to avoid having to login to both switches to make mods? ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
On 11/26/2010 10:16 PM, John Elliot wrote: stacked 3750s give you failover L3 SVIs by design (provided your uplinks are cross-chassis etherchannel) without the overhead/complications of HSRP, but they are pricey. With the 3750X series, if you stack more than two in a real routed (IPServices) stack, the other members must be at least IPBase. They do have a LANbase model that is essentially layer-2 only, but bear in mind (we learned the hard way) that it will NOT stack with the other license models of the 3750/3750E/3750X (it is essentially ignored). Thanks, so my options are 3750's, and I'll have single management across all 3750's implicitly, or 3560's and would need to run something like hsrp/GLBP to avoid having to login to both switches to make mods? Cisco stacks are managed as single units, the members becoming like blades of a modular switch. If you lose a switch, it's much like losing a blade. Configurations are duplicated across the members. If it's layer-3, SVIs stay up and are virtualized with the master switch. If you want to keep it redundant, you need to run cross-chassis etherchannels where you want redundancy (if one switch goes down, the channel stays up on the remaining switch[es]). For full fancy routing, you'll need two IP Services licensed switches in the stack (and they should have the uplinks). Additional switches can legally be IP Base... and if both your IP Services die, the stack will reboot as layer 2, and generally create havoc. If you can afford to keep them all the same license level, that's the Cisco Way and easily supported -- you can update the image on the master and it is propagated to the members, etc. I started out with a 3750 stack in our server farm, they make great rack-top switches, and adjacent racks can be stacked with the appropriate stack cables (although the longest available is 3-meters, so you can only go so far). I've since added a 3750E stack in another rack group. I'm getting better performance than the older 4500s they replaced (older 6G-per-blade SupIVs). You can get wire-speed 4900s, but that only gets you the 48 ports before you bottleneck to an uplink. The only downsides I've recognized are: * There is really no minimal interruption maintenance option for software upgrades. You can't do a failover / update / fail-back style rolling upgrade. Differing IOS versions across the stack will result in a reload and another master election. * They take FOREVER to boot (in the order of five minutes...) during which time the WHOLE STACK is unresponsive. * If you're really pushing the redundancy factor, they have a current limitation of 48 port-channels per stack. * They're still pricey (3750Xs are better) Jeff ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
it depends :) If only L2 is needed (and i think,all L3 is done on the 7200 ?) then maybe the new 2960S are also an optipn. But iirc they have only one PSU and a second power source can only be a RPS. So if you want 2 built in and also hot swappable PSUs the 3750X will perfectly fit Am 25.11.2010 01:35, schrieb John Elliot: Hi, We have an existing POP with 7200(G2) and a 3560 - The POP is growing a lot quicker than anticipated, and we have had to add another 3560 to accommodate new client eth connections...the 2nd 3560 is connected via PortChan to the 1st 3560(Not ideal). Before the POP becomes unmanageable, we are looking at replacing the 1st 3560 with 2 x 3750's(Or another switch available that offers stackwise, but can accommodate a growing number of vlans(We currently have ~250-300 in use)), and then use the 3560's for access layer to clients(With the 3560's having dual(PortChan) connectivity to each 3750. 2 Questions: - Are there any alternatives to the 3750 that we should be looking at?(Given budget restraints, and also space(RU) limitations) - We have a redundant 7200 onsite, that we manually copy the config to on each change...Is there a better(read automatic) way to do this?(Not HSRP/GLBP as the 7200 has upstream connectivity via ATM and only single connectivity is available) Thanks in advance for any suggestions. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
it depends :) If only L2 is needed (and i think,all L3 is done on the 7200 ?) then maybe the new 2960S are also an optipn. But iirc they have only one PSU and a second power source can only be a RPS. So if you want 2 built in and also hot swappable PSUs the 3750X will perfectly fit Thanks - 2960 has a limit of 64vlans, so no good unfortunatelysounding like the 3750 is the way to go. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
Robert, -Original Message- From: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Robert Maier Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:18 PM If only L2 is needed (and i think,all L3 is done on the 7200 ?) then maybe the new 2960S are also an optipn. But iirc they have only one PSU and a second power source can only be a RPS. So if you want 2 built in and also hot swappable PSUs the 3750X will perfectly fit 2960's support up to 16 static routes now. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst2960/software/release/12.2_55_se/configuration/guide/swipstatrout.html#wp1202471 -ryan ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
-Original Message- From: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [mailto:cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of John Elliot Thanks - 2960 has a limit of 64vlans, so no good unfortunatelysounding like the 3750 is the way to go. No PVLAN's either. -ryan ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
Its 255 actually. And I think it has the pvlan edge feature. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/switches/ps5718/ps6406/product_data_sheet0900aecd80322c0c.html Regards Fredrik Från: cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net [cisco-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net] f#246;r John Elliot [johnellio...@hotmail.com] Skickat: den 25 november 2010 19:28 Till: desolation...@gmail.com; cisco-nsp Ämne: Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise? it depends :) If only L2 is needed (and i think,all L3 is done on the 7200 ?) then maybe the new 2960S are also an optipn. But iirc they have only one PSU and a second power source can only be a RPS. So if you want 2 built in and also hot swappable PSUs the 3750X will perfectly fit Thanks - 2960 has a limit of 64vlans, so no good unfortunatelysounding like the 3750 is the way to go. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
Re: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise?
Hey John-- The new 3560X does not offer StackWise; too bad, that would an excellent offering. The 2960 model does, but that really doesn't have the horsepower that the 3560 does. One thing you might want to consider is two 3560X switches, the 10G network module, four copper SFPs and two copper cables so that you can make a 20 Gbps link between the two. Certainly that comes nowhere close to the 64Gpbs StackWise link, but is may be less expensive. cjw Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:35:20 +1100 From: John Elliot johnellio...@hotmail.com To: cisco-nsp cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net Subject: [c-nsp] Alternatives to 3750 w/ Stackwise? Message-ID: col111-w30c3bf0992085dcaf42e03da...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, We have an existing POP with 7200(G2) and a 3560 - The POP is growing a lot quicker than anticipated, and we have had to add another 3560 to accommodate new client eth connections...the 2nd 3560 is connected via PortChan to the 1st 3560(Not ideal). Before the POP becomes unmanageable, we are looking at replacing the 1st 3560 with 2 x 3750's(Or another switch available that offers stackwise, but can accommodate a growing number of vlans(We currently have ~250-300 in use)), and then use the 3560's for access layer to clients(With the 3560's having dual(PortChan) connectivity to each 3750. 2 Questions: - Are there any alternatives to the 3750 that we should be looking at?(Given budget restraints, and also space(RU) limitations) - We have a redundant 7200 onsite, that we manually copy the config to on each change...Is there a better(read automatic) way to do this?(Not HSRP/GLBP as the 7200 has upstream connectivity via ATM and only single connectivity is available) Thanks in advance for any suggestions. ___ cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/
