Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Bozhidar Batsov 
Even Java 1.7 already reached its end of life. I get it that some companies
are slow to update their infrastructures, but being constrained to legacy
unsupported systems adds both a security risk and some development
overhead. It's high time for Java 1.6 to be laid down to rest and for
people stuck to it to move forward. I'm guessing Cognitect's enterprise
customers are the primary reason 1.6 is still supported.

On 20 January 2016 at 08:58, Max Penet  wrote:

> I doubt it such a big deal actually.
>
> You can run multiple versions of the java on the same machine. The
> only issue would be for legacy projects that are frozen to java 6 and
> would like to upgrade to a lib (like clojure) relying java8.  But I
> doubt such projects are the norm, and the few that are probably do not
> care about upgrading to the latest clojure.
>
> There are a lot of very large projects (such as Jetty, Cassandra, etc)
> that just made java8 a requirement for their next/current releases, and I
> don't see much complaining about it (quite the opposite).
>
> Also the fact that clojure itself is not getting an avalanche of new
> feature at every release makes upgrading not so critical.
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:33:56 PM UTC+1, Sean Corfield wrote:
>>
>> Didier wrote on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 11:08 AM:
>>
>> Why not make new versions of Clojure support the latest Java version and
>> JDK features
>>
>>
>> Since Clojure 1.7 (and 1.8) run on Java 8 quite happily, I assume you
>> mean "Why not drop support for earlier Java versions with each new version
>> of Clojure"?
>>
>> The answer — for any situation like this — is that many companies are
>> slow to upgrade fundamental infrastructure like the JVM because they have
>> so many things that rely on it, so it is a major exercise. For Clojure to
>> be adopted by such companies, it needs to run on their existing JVM
>> infrastructure.
>>
>> Dropping support for older JVM versions is therefore a Big Deal(™) and
>> can not be undertaken lightly. A lot of software generally tries to support
>> current plus two versions back which would mean Java 6 support should
>> likely stay until Java 9 is GA (although it’s true that there is also a lot
>> of software that only supports current plus one version back).
>>
>> Bear in mind that there are many companies still running Windows XP
>> because upgrading is such an expensive business (in time and effort, as
>> well as any actual costs)!
>>
>> Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
>> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>>
>> "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
>> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>>
>> --
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[ANN] Boot new -- templates for Boot

2016-01-19 Thread Sean Corfield 
What?
A Boot task that generates projects from templates!

Where?
https://clojars.org/seancorfield/boot-new
https://github.com/seancorfield/boot-new

Details?
OK, sure! Boot new can use existing Leiningen templates as well as new 
Boot templates.

boot -d seancorfield/boot-new new -t template-name -n project-name

e.g.,

boot -d seancorfield/boot-new new -t tenzing -n myapp -a +divshot -a 
+test

which is equivalent to:

lein new tensing myapp -- +divshot +test

Additional options can be seen by asking for help:

boot -d seancorfield/boot-new new -h

Built-in templates – that generate Boot-based projects – are app, 
default, task, and template.

I hope we’ll see stuff/boot-template projects start to appear providing 
Boot templates for Boot projects!

Next?
Generators that add pieces to existing projects and whatever else the 
Boot community wants!

Thanks?
Huge thanks to the Leiningen team who agreed to me borrowing 
leiningen.new / leiningen.new.templates.

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Max Penet 
I doubt it such a big deal actually.

You can run multiple versions of the java on the same machine. The
only issue would be for legacy projects that are frozen to java 6 and
would like to upgrade to a lib (like clojure) relying java8.  But I
doubt such projects are the norm, and the few that are probably do not
care about upgrading to the latest clojure.

There are a lot of very large projects (such as Jetty, Cassandra, etc)
that just made java8 a requirement for their next/current releases, and I
don't see much complaining about it (quite the opposite).

Also the fact that clojure itself is not getting an avalanche of new
feature at every release makes upgrading not so critical.




On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:33:56 PM UTC+1, Sean Corfield wrote:
>
> Didier wrote on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 11:08 AM:
>
> Why not make new versions of Clojure support the latest Java version and 
> JDK features
>
>
> Since Clojure 1.7 (and 1.8) run on Java 8 quite happily, I assume you mean 
> "Why not drop support for earlier Java versions with each new version of 
> Clojure"?
>
> The answer — for any situation like this — is that many companies are slow 
> to upgrade fundamental infrastructure like the JVM because they have so 
> many things that rely on it, so it is a major exercise. For Clojure to be 
> adopted by such companies, it needs to run on their existing JVM 
> infrastructure.
>
> Dropping support for older JVM versions is therefore a Big Deal(™) and can 
> not be undertaken lightly. A lot of software generally tries to support 
> current plus two versions back which would mean Java 6 support should 
> likely stay until Java 9 is GA (although it’s true that there is also a lot 
> of software that only supports current plus one version back).
>
> Bear in mind that there are many companies still running Windows XP 
> because upgrading is such an expensive business (in time and effort, as 
> well as any actual costs)!
>
> Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>
>

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Re: [ANN] New clojure.org!

2016-01-19 Thread Mars0i 
Reid, thanks very much for the explanation, and thanks for all of the 
work.  Knowing that the docstrings may be different on Grimoire is very 
helpful.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 1:54:48 PM UTC-6, Reid McKenzie wrote:
>
> Grimoire was originally built to replace ClojureDocs when it had been 
> inactive for some time, and as it turns out mere months prior to the big 
> update which is now live. That I continue to operate Grimoire now that 
> ClojureDocs has been updated is I suppose competition at some level. 
>
> Yes ClojureDocs and Grimoire use independent and unsynchronized content 
> stores. Originally Grimoire started with all of ClojureDocs' examples 
> unaltered. I put a bunch of time into reformatting and editing them for 
> Grimoire this summer. I've shared these changes with zkim although I 
> don't think he's done anything with them yet. 
>
> As to documentation, ClojureDocs serves the default unmodified Clojure 
> docstrings. My goal with Grimoire is to largely replace these famously 
> curt strings with more fully formed articles and commentary. This is 
> very much a demand directed operation, with the worklist [1] or personal 
> points of friction being used to direct priorities. 
>
> The examples on both ClojureDocs and Grimoire are adequate. I don't 
> think there's value being lost between one or the other there. 
> ClojureDocs has a huge Google PageRank lead which I don't think it's 
> worthwhile to invest time competing against. Hence my goal has been to 
> provide augmented docstrings which are I hope more helpful. 
>
> Reid 
>
> [1] conj.io/worklist 
>
> On 01/18/2016 09:31 PM, Mars0i wrote: 
> > Thanks Reid.   I'm a little confused about the relationships between 
> > the goals of ClojureDocs and Grimoire.  They both provide 
> > community-supported documentation.   The top-level interfaces are 
> > different of course, but I'm not sure whether there are differences in 
> > functionality once one knows the ins and outs of each system.  (I see 
> > now that some of what I thought was available only in ClojureDocs is 
> > available on Grimoire as well.) 
> > 
> > Are ClojureDocs and Grimoire in competition?  If so, there's nothing 
> > necessarily wrong with that; each person can choose what seems best. 
> > Perhaps there is this drawback: If a user adds an example or comment 
> > to one, it won't appear in the other.  Given that the core 
> > documentation in each is the same, one would have to scan through two 
> > pages for a single function in order to see whether there's any useful 
> > information in one but not the other. 
>
>

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Re: [ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

2016-01-19 Thread Alex Miller 
Dang it! I'll take the blame on that one. Sorry.


On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 7:24:45 PM UTC-6, OHTA Shogo wrote:
>
> Congrats!!
>
> BTW my name is Shogo *Ohta*, not *Ohto *;-)
>
> On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 4:54:48 AM UTC+9, Alex Miller wrote:
>>
>> Some of the new features for 1.8 are:
>>
>>- More string functions in clojure.string 
>> 
>>(portable to ClojureScript): index-of, last-index-of, starts-with?, 
>>ends-with?, includes?
>>- Compiler direct linking 
>> - improves 
>>performance and startup time
>>- Socket server 
>> 
>>and socket server REPL - adds the ability to allow remote Clojure REPL 
>>connections
>>
>> For more information, see the complete list 
>>  of all 
>> changes since Clojure 1.7 for more details.
>>
>> Thanks to all of those who contributed to Clojure 1.8 (first time 
>> contributors in bold):
>>
>>- *Alexander Yakushev*
>>- Alex Miller
>>- Alex Redington
>>- Alf Kristian Stoyle
>>- Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant
>>- *Andrew Rosa*
>>- Andy Fingerhut
>>- *Andy Sheldon*
>>- *Aspasia Beneti*
>>- *Blake West*
>>- Bozhidar Batsov
>>- *Daniel Compton*
>>- *Erik Assum*
>>- Gary Fredericks
>>- Ghadi Shayban
>>- *Gordon Syme*
>>- Howard Lewis Ship
>>- *Jean Niklas L'orange*
>>- *Jeremy Heiler*
>>- *Jonas Enlund*
>>- Jozef Wagner
>>- Karsten Schmidt
>>- Kevin Downey
>>- *Mark Simpson*
>>- Michael Blume
>>- *Nahuel Greco*
>>- Nicola Mometto
>>- *Nikita Prokopov*
>>- *Nola Stowe*
>>- *Ragnar Dahlén*
>>- *Ralf Schmitt*
>>- Rich Hickey
>>- *Russ Olsen*
>>- *Shogo Ohto*
>>- Steve Miner
>>- Stuart Halloway
>>- Timothy Baldridge
>>- *Tsutomu Yano*
>>- *Yanxiang Lou*
>>
>>

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[ANN] Updated Clojure cheatsheet, including new vars in Clojure 1.8.0

2016-01-19 Thread Andy Fingerhut 
http://jafingerhut.github.io

I'm jumping the gun a little bit by announcing this, as the links for the
new Clojure 1.8.0 vars like clojure.string/index-of and last-index-of, etc.
do not link to any place useful on ClojureDocs.org or Grimoire yet, but I
am guessing they will in not too long from now, when those sites are
updated for Clojure 1.8.0 (or some bug in the cheat sheet links for
Grimoire is fixed, perhaps).

This updated version should make its way to
http://clojure.org/api/cheatsheet soon, but until then you can always get
the latest version at the link above.

Log of all changes made available here:
https://github.com/jafingerhut/clojure-cheatsheets/blob/master/src/clj-jvm/CHANGELOG.txt

Andy

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Re: [ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

2016-01-19 Thread OHTA Shogo 
Congrats!!

BTW my name is Shogo *Ohta*, not *Ohto *;-)

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 4:54:48 AM UTC+9, Alex Miller wrote:
>
> Some of the new features for 1.8 are:
>
>- More string functions in clojure.string 
> 
>(portable to ClojureScript): index-of, last-index-of, starts-with?, 
>ends-with?, includes?
>- Compiler direct linking 
> - improves 
>performance and startup time
>- Socket server 
> 
>and socket server REPL - adds the ability to allow remote Clojure REPL 
>connections
>
> For more information, see the complete list 
>  of all 
> changes since Clojure 1.7 for more details.
>
> Thanks to all of those who contributed to Clojure 1.8 (first time 
> contributors in bold):
>
>- *Alexander Yakushev*
>- Alex Miller
>- Alex Redington
>- Alf Kristian Stoyle
>- Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant
>- *Andrew Rosa*
>- Andy Fingerhut
>- *Andy Sheldon*
>- *Aspasia Beneti*
>- *Blake West*
>- Bozhidar Batsov
>- *Daniel Compton*
>- *Erik Assum*
>- Gary Fredericks
>- Ghadi Shayban
>- *Gordon Syme*
>- Howard Lewis Ship
>- *Jean Niklas L'orange*
>- *Jeremy Heiler*
>- *Jonas Enlund*
>- Jozef Wagner
>- Karsten Schmidt
>- Kevin Downey
>- *Mark Simpson*
>- Michael Blume
>- *Nahuel Greco*
>- Nicola Mometto
>- *Nikita Prokopov*
>- *Nola Stowe*
>- *Ragnar Dahlén*
>- *Ralf Schmitt*
>- Rich Hickey
>- *Russ Olsen*
>- *Shogo Ohto*
>- Steve Miner
>- Stuart Halloway
>- Timothy Baldridge
>- *Tsutomu Yano*
>- *Yanxiang Lou*
>
>

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Functional Geekery podcast is awesome

2016-01-19 Thread Alan Thompson 
Hey - Just wanted to remind everybody to check out the Functional Geekery
podcast if you have not yet done so.  It is one of my top 2 podcasts to
listen to!

https://www.functionalgeekery.com/

Another episode just came out today. Enjoy!
Alan

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Matching Socks 
Apropos of this week's new clojure.org website, this here is a genuine 
F.A.Q.

>

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Joe Python 
You are spot on!
Thanks for the clojure dev team to continue supporting Java 1.6.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 2:33:56 PM UTC-5, Sean Corfield wrote:
>
> Didier wrote on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 11:08 AM:
>
> Why not make new versions of Clojure support the latest Java version and 
> JDK features
>
>
> Since Clojure 1.7 (and 1.8) run on Java 8 quite happily, I assume you mean 
> "Why not drop support for earlier Java versions with each new version of 
> Clojure"?
>
> The answer — for any situation like this — is that many companies are slow 
> to upgrade fundamental infrastructure like the JVM because they have so 
> many things that rely on it, so it is a major exercise. For Clojure to be 
> adopted by such companies, it needs to run on their existing JVM 
> infrastructure.
>
> Dropping support for older JVM versions is therefore a Big Deal(™) and can 
> not be undertaken lightly. A lot of software generally tries to support 
> current plus two versions back which would mean Java 6 support should 
> likely stay until Java 9 is GA (although it’s true that there is also a lot 
> of software that only supports current plus one version back).
>
> Bear in mind that there are many companies still running Windows XP 
> because upgrading is such an expensive business (in time and effort, as 
> well as any actual costs)!
>
> Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
> "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
> -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
>
>

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Re: [ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

2016-01-19 Thread Sean Corfield 
Is this identical to RC5?

Answered my own question by looking at the commits on GitHub: yes.

Sean


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Re: [ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

2016-01-19 Thread Sean Corfield 
Awesome news!

Is this identical to RC5?

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


From:  Clojure Mailing List  on behalf of Alex Miller 

Reply-To:  Clojure Mailing List 
Date:  Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 11:54 AM
To:  Clojure Mailing List 
Subject:  [ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

Some of the new features for 1.8 are:
More string functions in clojure.string (portable to ClojureScript): index-of, 
last-index-of, starts-with?, ends-with?, includes?

Compiler direct linking - improves performance and startup time

Socket server and socket server REPL - adds the ability to allow remote Clojure 
REPL connections
For more information, see the complete list of all changes since Clojure 1.7 
for more details.

Thanks to all of those who contributed to Clojure 1.8 (first time contributors 
in bold):
Alexander Yakushev

Alex Miller

Alex Redington

Alf Kristian Stoyle

Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant

Andrew Rosa

Andy Fingerhut

Andy Sheldon

Aspasia Beneti

Blake West

Bozhidar Batsov

Daniel Compton

Erik Assum

Gary Fredericks

Ghadi Shayban

Gordon Syme

Howard Lewis Ship

Jean Niklas L'orange

Jeremy Heiler

Jonas Enlund

Jozef Wagner

Karsten Schmidt

Kevin Downey

Mark Simpson

Michael Blume

Nahuel Greco

Nicola Mometto

Nikita Prokopov

Nola Stowe

Ragnar Dahlén

Ralf Schmitt

Rich Hickey

Russ Olsen

Shogo Ohto

Steve Miner

Stuart Halloway

Timothy Baldridge

Tsutomu Yano

Yanxiang Lou

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Re: defmulti with prismatic schema

2016-01-19 Thread JvJ 
I've already figured out that the dispatch function can be schematized, but 
good call on the wrapper.  I'll try that.

On Monday, 18 January 2016 00:58:19 UTC-8, Jason Wolfe wrote:
>
> You can find some context here and in the linked PRs:
>
> https://github.com/plumatic/schema/pull/119
>
> Basically, the reason we don't have defmulti is that it's difficult to 
> implement properly, and didn't seem worth the effort and maintenance cost.  
>
> The simplest workaround is to create a schematized wrapper function that 
> calls through to your `defmulti`, and make that the public API (name the 
> wrapper `foo` and your defmulti `foo*` or something).
>
> There are also two partial solutions:
>  - Schematize each defmethod individually (as you mention)
>  - Schematize the dispatch function (this can do the inputs, but not the 
> outputs)
>
> Hope this helps,
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 12:29:43 AM UTC, JvJ wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I understand that Prismatic Schema has a means of annotating defmethod, 
>> but what should I do about defmulti?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>

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Re: [ANN] New clojure.org!

2016-01-19 Thread Alan Moore 
Reid,

Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize the differences. I've been
landing on clojuredocs primarily due to page rank but will be sure to
include/check grimoire because I want/need the enhanced doc strings.

Terseness is great when you are an expert but I'm not there yet and can
still use the extra help with some of the less frequently used functions.

Thanks for your efforts putting grimoire together, much appreciated.

Alan
-- 
*"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius,
power, and magic in it. Begin it now."* - *Goethe*

On Jan 19, 2016, at 11:54 AM, Reid McKenzie  wrote:

Grimoire was originally built to replace ClojureDocs when it had been
inactive for some time, and as it turns out mere months prior to the big
update which is now live. That I continue to operate Grimoire now that
ClojureDocs has been updated is I suppose competition at some level.

Yes ClojureDocs and Grimoire use independent and unsynchronized content
stores. Originally Grimoire started with all of ClojureDocs' examples
unaltered. I put a bunch of time into reformatting and editing them for
Grimoire this summer. I've shared these changes with zkim although I
don't think he's done anything with them yet.

As to documentation, ClojureDocs serves the default unmodified Clojure
docstrings. My goal with Grimoire is to largely replace these famously
curt strings with more fully formed articles and commentary. This is
very much a demand directed operation, with the worklist [1] or personal
points of friction being used to direct priorities.

The examples on both ClojureDocs and Grimoire are adequate. I don't
think there's value being lost between one or the other there.
ClojureDocs has a huge Google PageRank lead which I don't think it's
worthwhile to invest time competing against. Hence my goal has been to
provide augmented docstrings which are I hope more helpful.

Reid

[1] conj.io/worklist

On 01/18/2016 09:31 PM, Mars0i wrote:

Thanks Reid.   I'm a little confused about the relationships between

the goals of ClojureDocs and Grimoire.  They both provide

community-supported documentation.   The top-level interfaces are

different of course, but I'm not sure whether there are differences in

functionality once one knows the ins and outs of each system.  (I see

now that some of what I thought was available only in ClojureDocs is

available on Grimoire as well.)


Are ClojureDocs and Grimoire in competition?  If so, there's nothing

necessarily wrong with that; each person can choose what seems best.

Perhaps there is this drawback: If a user adds an example or comment

to one, it won't appear in the other.  Given that the core

documentation in each is the same, one would have to scan through two

pages for a single function in order to see whether there's any useful

information in one but not the other.


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ANN replikativ 0.1.0 - strong eventual consistent P2P replication for clj and cljs

2016-01-19 Thread Christian Weilbach 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

after three years of laying ground-work for a cross-platform database
in form of many libraries (1), doing research about CRDTs and
stretching core.async and other libraries as far as possible, I am
happy to finally announce a first release of replikativ:

replikativ is a replication system for confluent replicated data types
(CRDTs). It is primarily designed to work as a decentralized database
for web applications, but can be used to distribute any state durably
between different peers with different runtimes (JVM, js atm.).
Instead of programming thin web-clients around a central server/cloud,
you operate on your local data like a native application both on
client- and (if you wish to) server-side. You can also view it in
reverse as a cloud being expanded to all end-points. You can write to
CRDTs whenever you want and also access values whenever you want no
matter if the remote peer(s) (servers) is available or not. In
combination with our CDVCS datatype you can imagine it as git for data
(expressed e.g. in edn) + automatic eventual consistent replication.

https://github.com/replikativ/replikativ


While there are still some issues and the design is not completely
finished, I am pretty confident from our different design iterations
and our running prototype that the current one can avoid
race-conditions and is robust to errors. The interesting standard
CRDTs are still missing, but I decided to first hear some feedback
before growing the codebase and implementing optimizations.

Let's build more open systems and share data,
Christian

(1) https://github.com/replikativ/

P.S.: The prototype https://topiq.es is currently hosted on a home
server, if it loads too slowly, I will move it, but so far I felt a
bit romantic about my basement and didn't want to spend money for an
AWS instance or something else. Feel free to host your own instances
and to connect them ;), it should be straightforward.
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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Paul deGrandis 

Hi All,

Jloj is/was a quick spike into what it'd take to make interop play nicely 
with later Java features (New trait-like interfaces, FunctionalInterface, 
Optional, Lambdas, Streams, etc.)  It's mostly focused on making the Java 
side more Clojure-like, but does have support for loads of interop that 
works on both sides.
 * From the Clojure side: 
https://github.com/ohpauleez/jloj/blob/master/src/jloj/core.clj#L227-L269
 * All the Java-written interop: 
https://github.com/ohpauleez/jloj/tree/master/java/jloj/lang

You'll see that with some Java shims in place, it's easy to get all the 
things listed in this thread.

Cheers,
Paul

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Re: [ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

2016-01-19 Thread Colin Yates 
Congrats to all contributors and testers - looking forward to trying it out.
> On 19 Jan 2016, at 19:54, Alex Miller  wrote:
> 
> Some of the new features for 1.8 are:
> More string functions in clojure.string 
>  
> (portable to ClojureScript): index-of, last-index-of, starts-with?, 
> ends-with?, includes?
> Compiler direct linking 
>  - improves 
> performance and startup time
> Socket server 
>  and 
> socket server REPL - adds the ability to allow remote Clojure REPL connections
> For more information, see the complete list 
>  of all changes 
> since Clojure 1.7 for more details.
> 
> Thanks to all of those who contributed to Clojure 1.8 (first time 
> contributors in bold):
> Alexander Yakushev
> Alex Miller
> Alex Redington
> Alf Kristian Stoyle
> Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant
> Andrew Rosa
> Andy Fingerhut
> Andy Sheldon
> Aspasia Beneti
> Blake West
> Bozhidar Batsov
> Daniel Compton
> Erik Assum
> Gary Fredericks
> Ghadi Shayban
> Gordon Syme
> Howard Lewis Ship
> Jean Niklas L'orange
> Jeremy Heiler
> Jonas Enlund
> Jozef Wagner
> Karsten Schmidt
> Kevin Downey
> Mark Simpson
> Michael Blume
> Nahuel Greco
> Nicola Mometto
> Nikita Prokopov
> Nola Stowe
> Ragnar Dahlén
> Ralf Schmitt
> Rich Hickey
> Russ Olsen
> Shogo Ohto
> Steve Miner
> Stuart Halloway
> Timothy Baldridge
> Tsutomu Yano
> Yanxiang Lou
> 
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[ANN] Clojure 1.8.0 is now available

2016-01-19 Thread Alex Miller 
Some of the new features for 1.8 are:

   - More string functions in clojure.string 
    
   (portable to ClojureScript): index-of, last-index-of, starts-with?, 
   ends-with?, includes?
   - Compiler direct linking 
    - improves 
   performance and startup time
   - Socket server 
    
   and socket server REPL - adds the ability to allow remote Clojure REPL 
   connections
   
For more information, see the complete list 
 of all changes 
since Clojure 1.7 for more details.

Thanks to all of those who contributed to Clojure 1.8 (first time 
contributors in bold):

   - *Alexander Yakushev*
   - Alex Miller
   - Alex Redington
   - Alf Kristian Stoyle
   - Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant
   - *Andrew Rosa*
   - Andy Fingerhut
   - *Andy Sheldon*
   - *Aspasia Beneti*
   - *Blake West*
   - Bozhidar Batsov
   - *Daniel Compton*
   - *Erik Assum*
   - Gary Fredericks
   - Ghadi Shayban
   - *Gordon Syme*
   - Howard Lewis Ship
   - *Jean Niklas L'orange*
   - *Jeremy Heiler*
   - *Jonas Enlund*
   - Jozef Wagner
   - Karsten Schmidt
   - Kevin Downey
   - *Mark Simpson*
   - Michael Blume
   - *Nahuel Greco*
   - Nicola Mometto
   - *Nikita Prokopov*
   - *Nola Stowe*
   - *Ragnar Dahlén*
   - *Ralf Schmitt*
   - Rich Hickey
   - *Russ Olsen*
   - *Shogo Ohto*
   - Steve Miner
   - Stuart Halloway
   - Timothy Baldridge
   - *Tsutomu Yano*
   - *Yanxiang Lou*
   

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Re: [ANN] New clojure.org!

2016-01-19 Thread Reid McKenzie 
Grimoire was originally built to replace ClojureDocs when it had been
inactive for some time, and as it turns out mere months prior to the big
update which is now live. That I continue to operate Grimoire now that
ClojureDocs has been updated is I suppose competition at some level.

Yes ClojureDocs and Grimoire use independent and unsynchronized content
stores. Originally Grimoire started with all of ClojureDocs' examples
unaltered. I put a bunch of time into reformatting and editing them for
Grimoire this summer. I've shared these changes with zkim although I
don't think he's done anything with them yet.

As to documentation, ClojureDocs serves the default unmodified Clojure
docstrings. My goal with Grimoire is to largely replace these famously
curt strings with more fully formed articles and commentary. This is
very much a demand directed operation, with the worklist [1] or personal
points of friction being used to direct priorities.

The examples on both ClojureDocs and Grimoire are adequate. I don't
think there's value being lost between one or the other there.
ClojureDocs has a huge Google PageRank lead which I don't think it's
worthwhile to invest time competing against. Hence my goal has been to
provide augmented docstrings which are I hope more helpful.

Reid

[1] conj.io/worklist

On 01/18/2016 09:31 PM, Mars0i wrote:
> Thanks Reid.   I'm a little confused about the relationships between
> the goals of ClojureDocs and Grimoire.  They both provide
> community-supported documentation.   The top-level interfaces are
> different of course, but I'm not sure whether there are differences in
> functionality once one knows the ins and outs of each system.  (I see
> now that some of what I thought was available only in ClojureDocs is
> available on Grimoire as well.)
>
> Are ClojureDocs and Grimoire in competition?  If so, there's nothing
> necessarily wrong with that; each person can choose what seems best. 
> Perhaps there is this drawback: If a user adds an example or comment
> to one, it won't appear in the other.  Given that the core
> documentation in each is the same, one would have to scan through two
> pages for a single function in order to see whether there's any useful
> information in one but not the other.

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread James Elliott 
Thanks, Andrew, and to be clear this is an obscure side environment of my 
main project, and I am resigned to the fact that it seems doomed because 
the developers of Max/MSP are choosing to respond to Apple’s deprecation of 
their Java 1.6 environment by entirely abandoning support for working with 
the Java VM. So I agree, Java 1.6 is very old now, and at some point the 
burden of maintaining support for it starts slowing down other important 
progress.

The main thrust of my Clojure development is in the latest release 
candidate of Clojure on the latest Oracle JVM.

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 1:03:38 PM UTC-5, Andrew Oberstar wrote:
>
> [...]
> I can understand James' (Elliott) desire to keep Java 6 compatibility for 
> platforms that are slower to adopt newer JVMs, but I hope that doesn't 
> become an excuse for Clojure to stay moored to the JVM's past for the 
> long-term.
>
> Andrew Oberstar
>

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Alex Miller 
Although I guess that's maybe more from the Java side.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 1:31:55 PM UTC-6, Alex Miller wrote:
>
> You might also find the nascent https://github.com/ohpauleez/jloj to be 
> interesting for better lambda interop.
>
>>
>>

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Sean Corfield 
Didier wrote on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 11:08 AM:
Why not make new versions of Clojure support the latest Java version and JDK 
features

Since Clojure 1.7 (and 1.8) run on Java 8 quite happily, I assume you mean "Why 
not drop support for earlier Java versions with each new version of Clojure"?

The answer — for any situation like this — is that many companies are slow to 
upgrade fundamental infrastructure like the JVM because they have so many 
things that rely on it, so it is a major exercise. For Clojure to be adopted by 
such companies, it needs to run on their existing JVM infrastructure.

Dropping support for older JVM versions is therefore a Big Deal(™) and can not 
be undertaken lightly. A lot of software generally tries to support current 
plus two versions back which would mean Java 6 support should likely stay until 
Java 9 is GA (although it’s true that there is also a lot of software that only 
supports current plus one version back).

Bear in mind that there are many companies still running Windows XP because 
upgrading is such an expensive business (in time and effort, as well as any 
actual costs)!

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"Perfection is the enemy of the good."
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)


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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Alex Miller 
You might also find the nascent https://github.com/ohpauleez/jloj to be 
interesting for better lambda interop.

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 1:03:38 PM UTC-5, Andrew Oberstar wrote:
>
> I may end up in the same incomplete, unmaintained state as the other 
> libraries you've seen, but I'm slowly starting on a Java interop library 
> "cljj" (https://github.com/ike-tools/ike.cljj).
>
> - AutoCloseable - As James (Reeves) mentioned, clojure.core/with-open 
> meets this need.
> - NIO2 - Standard Java interop is functional, but can be a pain due to the 
> heavy use of varargs in NIO2 APIs. I'd like to wrap this in cljj.
> - Streams - Can add reduce/transduce support by implementing CollReduce 
> protocol. There's not a clean way to support the clojure.core/seq function, 
> that I've seen without wrapping the stream. I plan to support this in cljj.
> - Lambdas - I do find these to be a pain, and had a thread on this list a 
> week or two ago. Right now I'm planning to just have functions/macros to 
> wrap/define methods implementing java.util.function interfaces. Ideally, 
> the compiler would support this better. This is the only one that really 
> would require any change to Clojure itself for better Java 8 support IMO.
>
> I can understand James' (Elliott) desire to keep Java 6 compatibility for 
> platforms that are slower to adopt newer JVMs, but I hope that doesn't 
> become an excuse for Clojure to stay moored to the JVM's past for the 
> long-term.
>
> Andrew Oberstar
>

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread James Elliott 
El Capitan is now the current version of OS X (although I have not yet 
personally been able to update to it, because of some straggling 
compatibility issues with DJ equipment), so the next version of OS X will 
no longer support Apple’s 1.6 JDK.

On Saturday, August 8, 2015 at 3:44:36 PM UTC-5, Colin Fleming wrote:
>
> El Capitan (the next version of OSX) is going to be the last to support 
> Apple's 1.6 JDK. But that still means that I'm going to be stuck supporting 
> 1.6 until the vast majority of people have moved on from El Capitan - 
> that's a long way off.
>
> On 8 August 2015 at 20:52, James Elliott > 
> wrote:
>
>> That sounds like a great project. And I know that in the medium to long 
>> term, even if Clojure continues to support Java 1.6, eventually Apple will 
>> stop supporting their legacy VM, so I just hope Afterglow will catch on 
>> enough by then to convince Cycling ’74 to update their MXJ bridge. ;^)
>>
>> -James
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 13:03, Andrew Oberstar > > wrote:
>>
>> I may end up in the same incomplete, unmaintained state as the other 
>> libraries you've seen, but I'm slowly starting on a Java interop library 
>> "cljj" (https://github.com/ike-tools/ike.cljj).
>>
>> - AutoCloseable - As James (Reeves) mentioned, clojure.core/with-open 
>> meets this need.
>> - NIO2 - Standard Java interop is functional, but can be a pain due to 
>> the heavy use of varargs in NIO2 APIs. I'd like to wrap this in cljj.
>> - Streams - Can add reduce/transduce support by implementing CollReduce 
>> protocol. There's not a clean way to support the clojure.core/seq function, 
>> that I've seen without wrapping the stream. I plan to support this in cljj.
>> - Lambdas - I do find these to be a pain, and had a thread on this list a 
>> week or two ago. Right now I'm planning to just have functions/macros to 
>> wrap/define methods implementing java.util.function interfaces. Ideally, 
>> the compiler would support this better. This is the only one that really 
>> would require any change to Clojure itself for better Java 8 support IMO.
>>
>> I can understand James' (Elliott) desire to keep Java 6 compatibility for 
>> platforms that are slower to adopt newer JVMs, but I hope that doesn't 
>> become an excuse for Clojure to stay moored to the JVM's past for the 
>> long-term.
>>
>> Andrew Oberstar
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 7:12 AM Morten Christensen > > wrote:
>>
>>> I am new to Clojure which I am evaluating using Clojure for a Java 8 
>>> based framework with code in clojure, java and possibly other jvm based 
>>> languages that all need to interoperate.
>>>
>>> Clojure has many smart features which I like but there is at least one 
>>> drawback. I could be wrong (?) but it appears to me that feature-wise it is 
>>> limited to a legacy version of java - Java version 6 from 2008.
>>>
>>> Happily Clojure tolerate running under Java 7/8 but I have found no 
>>> specific support for Java 7/8 features. In particular there is no support 
>>> for NIO 2.0 or interoperability support for @FunctionalInterface, 
>>> java.lang.AutoCloseable, Method parameter reflection, java.util.stream etc. 
>>>
>>> I could do my own Clojure wrapper for NIO 2 but it seems to be quite 
>>> hard for that particular tech (other people in the community have tried 
>>> without being 100% complete and could not find anything that is actively 
>>> maintained). All the other stuff seems like something that need in Clojure 
>>> itself along with invokedynamic and other optimizations. 
>>>
>>> Is there any plans for actively supporting Java 7/8 ?
>>>
>>> /Morten
>>>
>>>
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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Alex Miller 
At some point we may. You have just casually waved off a bunch of 
infrastructure and maintenance work though, which has it's own costs.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 1:08:19 PM UTC-6, Didier wrote:
>
> Why not make new versions of Clojure support the latest Java version and 
> JDK features, and people who need to run an old JDK can just depend on an 
> older version of Clojure that works on it? Ideally, bug fixes could still 
> be pushed out for maybe 2 versions behind or something.
>
> On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 21:03:12 UTC-7, Mars0i wrote:
>>
>> For whatever it's worth, I do a lot of Clojure programming on two old 
>> Macs.  They were both running Snow Leopard until this week; now one is 
>> running Yosemite (ugh), and the other will run Snow Leopard until I get a 
>> new computer to replace it in a few months.  Since S.L. doesn't support 
>> anything past Java 1.6, I'm happy that Clojure has supported 1.6 for as 
>> long as it has.
>>
>

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Re: Clojure beyond Java 6 ?

2016-01-19 Thread Didier 
Why not make new versions of Clojure support the latest Java version and 
JDK features, and people who need to run an old JDK can just depend on an 
older version of Clojure that works on it? Ideally, bug fixes could still 
be pushed out for maybe 2 versions behind or something.

On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 21:03:12 UTC-7, Mars0i wrote:
>
> For whatever it's worth, I do a lot of Clojure programming on two old 
> Macs.  They were both running Snow Leopard until this week; now one is 
> running Yosemite (ugh), and the other will run Snow Leopard until I get a 
> new computer to replace it in a few months.  Since S.L. doesn't support 
> anything past Java 1.6, I'm happy that Clojure has supported 1.6 for as 
> long as it has.
>

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Crossclj.info shows outdated dependencies

2016-01-19 Thread Oliver Hine 
See also the lein ancient plugin for similar functionality at the command 
prompt.

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