Re: Alright, fess up, who's unhappy with clojurescript?
Clojure was my first Lisp, I learned it just after Rich's first vids came out, but I hung up my hat as I prefer 1 language on all tiers(ajax on client) for web apps. So, Clojurescript now presents me with the ability to do that, and really piques my interest again in Clojure. I think this is a terrific development for Clojure. Right now I use haXe (targetting js) on node.js and the browser with html5 - all typed apis, i mention this as it's in the same space, and I've recently had similar arguments in a system I've developed, regards tying to a base ui library. We came down on letting our users select their own ui, it seemed a mistake to alienate most of the community no matter what selection of tool was used. Our team of 5 had 5 different opinions, it's a real can of worms. I think it would be better for Clojurescript acceptance in the long run to make use of closure compiler and libraries optional. If it's optional you can still utilize the closure compiler in your pipeline (like I can for haXe output js - works great), and the better optimizing compilers which will no doubt appear in the javascript arms race. Coffeescript compiles to js as cleanly as possible; haXe by comparison is a lot more convoluted in that it has other semantics over and above standard js which require emulating, e.g. ocaml like enums. Neither however force the use of a 3rd party library. One other thing for dev, I'd like as speedy compilation as possible, raw compiler output with no other tweaks. Thanks, for a great tool, it's certainly welcome addition. bd -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Second Lisp to Learn
Thanks for the links, the last gives a good summary. I think newlisp is great for scripting, if i were on the jvm on a large project I'd use clojure, but for tasks that I might use ruby,python, or perl for i find newlisp refreshingly clean and direct. It may be warty, if warty means practical. Clojure is practical too yet here described as an abomination, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42 - it's too bad folks trying to get work done get a bad wrap from those in ivory towers. bd On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 11:06 -0800, Richard Newman wrote: newLISP I've seen enough about newLISP to not bother. http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/257#comment-1901 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/39a9e50aa548637f http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2006/04/20/newlisp-an-intriguing-dialect-of-lisp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Second Lisp to Learn
newLISP On Sun, 2009-12-20 at 12:31 -0800, Sean Devlin wrote: Hi everyone, After hacking Clojure for a while, I've come to the conclusion that studying a second Lisp would help. So, what do the people here think? What is a good Lisp to study? Are there particular dialects distributions that are interesting? The things that are important to me are: A community at least 1/10th as awesome as this one. Seriously. Libs in Lisp - I want to see if there are ideas worth stealing. Available documentation - I have to be able to read about it, and teach myself online. Thanks, Sean -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Santiago Clojurians?
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:47:36 -0800 (PST) peg philippe.gi...@gmail.com wrote: hi, if I can help ( but for what? ;-) , I know relatively well Santiago, know people there and speak and write spanish (I'm french living in France). Phil Nothing specific, I was following on from the London clojurians thread, thought I'd add some noise :) -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Santiago Clojurians?
Hi If there's anyone in Santiago, Chile, who speaks Clojure and some English (my Spanish is not very good) would be good to meet up. Cheers bd -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Santiago Clojurians?
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 01:53:36 + Jon Harrop j...@ffconsultancy.com wrote: On Tuesday 03 February 2009 00:39:45 blackdog wrote: Hi If there's anyone in Santiago, Chile, who speaks Clojure and some English (my Spanish is not very good) would be good to meet up. Perhaps a Venn diagram would help. ;-) Yes, I suspect I'm in a very small set here :) -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: clojure.contrib.sql (connection) public?
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:50:44 -0500 Stephen C. Gilardi squee...@mac.com wrote: On Dec 15, 2008, at 6:48 AM, black...@ipowerhouse.com wrote: This may be a problem with the way I'm doing things but I think it would be useful for the (connection) function of internal to not be internal. For example, lets say i do a query on a db to see if a user exists, if they don't I want to insert, so I need a new statement for that within the same transaction, i.e. i need to get hold of the connection itself to create my new statement. Right now, I'm doing (internal/connection) but I think it should be part of the public interface as it's something that happens frequently. connection is now (r340) part of the public API for clojure.contrib.sql. Thanks for the feedback! --Steve thanks, very useful. -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Loading a resource file from the class path?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:12:30 -0800 Darren Austin darren.aus...@gmail.com wrote: Hey folks, I am probably missing something obvious here, but is there an good way to open a resource file that is relative to the current class path? I want to bundle up some data files with my .clj source in a .jar file. From the clojure code, I need to open these data files. I looked at Class.getResourceAsStream(), but I couldn't find a good way to get an object that would give me a Class object from the package/ns of my clojure code. Any suggestions on how to achieve this? Thanks, --Darren here's something ... (defn loadTextResource [path] (let [bl (.baseLoader clojure.lang.RT) inps (.getResourceAsStream bl path)] (if inps (with-open [r (BufferedReader. (InputStreamReader. inps))] (let [sb (new StringBuilder)] (loop [c (. r (read))] (if (neg? c) (str sb) (do (. sb (append (char c))) (recur (. r (read -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Clojure Blogs | Yahoo Pipes | Clojure Pipe
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:24:52 -0800 (PST) bc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of people are writing Clojure-related blog posts; however, I am often only interested in the Clojure posts they do and not the other posts. Therefore, I've created a mashup of clojure-related blog posts using Yahoo Pipes. The description is here: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/081206.html If you want to view the blogs or subscribe to the feeds, the url is: feed://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=4cc8ebb9ae0b852d6ab7d94956ce2638_render=rss -- Bill Clementson Thanks, that's really useful. bd -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Clojure template library
You can find a little demo I put together for lauofdk here: http://www.ipowerhouse.com/lau.zip It is exactly what ppierre mentioned, clojure servlets returning json with a jquery/pure client hello world. the dl includes jetty, and can be fired up with ./run test.clj test.clj configures jetty and a single test servlet. I don't do any server side templating at all these days. bd On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:53:43 -0800 (PST) ppierre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A nice solution is PURE : http://beebole.com/pure/ JavaScript templating engine converting Json to HTML. With a Clojure version you have identical code for HTML and AJAX : Server side : Clojure/PURE + HTML - HTML Client side : Clojure/JSON - JavaScript/PURE + AJAX pierre -- None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Clojure Box (was Working combination of .emacs, Aquamacs, swank-clojure, clojure-mode?)
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:57:16 -0500 Chouser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 7:39 AM, Rich Hickey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate this, thanks, although I have to admit to a pang of sadness that tiny Clojure comes in a box 100x its size :( I would hate to discourage this in any way (or let my vim roots show too much) but jEdit is a 2 or 3MB download. I bet it wouldn't be very hard to get a Clojure REPL in there. --Chouser I have one i didn't finish (after rediscovering emacs :)) if anyone wants it. I should maybe upload it to the group. It has syntax hilighting, repl, and tree (courtesy of enclojure). bd --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: POLL: Domain name for project hosting site.
+1 On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:54:22 -0800 (PST) David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not in favour of slangish derivatives. They're good for code- names, but when you get serious, a silly name is an obstacle. First of all, pronunciation descriptors after the name are down-right silly. People start making remarks that you sound like a Wikipedia article. Moreover, it's hard to make a good pitch when you get stuck on a name before the actual pitch begins. Clojure is no different, BTW. No, sir, it's actually pronounced cloe-shur, like closure with an ess. This way we'll be able to tell it apart from Java closures due in one of the next releases of the JVM. No, not ass. Ess. Let me write it down for you. ... That being said, why can't clojure.org be used for that purpose? If I remember correctly, all it takes is some DNS magic, and we have a, say, project.clojure.org. Hosted on another physical machine, if need be. On Nov 17, 8:52 pm, Drew Crampsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey All, I've finally found some time to start getting the project hosting site together, and i need a name.. so lets put it to a vote. Here are some suggestions so far, but please feel free to chime in with your own as well. - projecture - clojr - proj4cloj - clojforge, cloforj, - forj - clojects - clojury - openjure Thanks for the help Clojurians! Cheers, drewc --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Readable names
+1 on existing names On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:50:12 -0500 Rich Hickey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 10, 2008, at 8:48 AM, Robert Lally wrote: One of the many things that I really like about Clojure is that it abandoned Lisp tradition where it was pragmatic to do so. One of the prime examples for me was the use of first and rest rather than car and cdr. Sure, I can read code with car and cdr but it never really communicated that well; I always had to go through a translation step in my head. It's important to note right away that car and cdr aren't abbreviations for anything more meaningful than car and cdr. With this in mind it surprises me ( and disappoints a little ) that there are still abbreviated function names in many places - aget, aset, assoc, conj, coll?, comp, and so on. Is there any need for this in the 21st century? I think so, but I understand this is somewhat subjective. It is useful to look at the 'competition' here (from random other languages): array-get - [] associate - put conjoin - add compose - . I don't see people coming from a language where array access is [] feeling good about the verbosity of array-get. put and add have imperative connotations that don't fit what assoc and conj do, so using them would only confuse people more. The trade off between meaningful method names and number of characters typed doesn't seem to be a good one from my perspective; particularly as IDE support matures and you will only need to type 'asso' to have the IDE expand the function name to 'associate' for you. IDEs can be great, but having to rely on them is a real problem. People stumble over Lisps due to editors without adequate paren matching, and if my experience with Clojure users is a guide, people tend to try to stick with the editor they already know, leaving them waiting for specific language support. Adding completion to the 'things your editor must do before you can write Clojure effectively' sets a high bar. Using full words as function names leads to more readable code .. which can only be a good thing. They do only to a point, and then the code gets larger and harder to scan, lines spill etc. I'm not suggesting that terseness is bad, merely that I don't believe the trade off is worth it in this case. I've shown Clojure to a number of people and the Lisp derived syntax coupled with abridged names makes it harder for people to comprehend, makes it less likely that on first encountering a piece of Clojure code that they'll be able to understand it, and so make it less likely that I'll get to write Clojure for a living ... which makes me sad. Well, people have to learn something new when they approach a new language. I'm not sure associate or conjoin would be more readily understood without some background on persistent immutable data structures. But at least it's not a lot of arbitrary syntax and associativity rules, and most of the short names are true abbreviations. Short names are one way Clojure can compete for brevity with languages that get their brevity from syntax. IMO, it's more approachable than Haskell, Erlang, Scala or any of the ML variants. array-get, associate, conjoin and compose etc are all still available. I wonder - would people use them if they were provided as aliases? I know I wouldn't. The vocabulary of seqs and collections is so small. While I appreciate the approachability argument, a language is ultimately for its practitioners. I imagine there are those that wish assoc/conj/apply et al were even shorter, or dedicated symbols... Since I don't hear this argument too often, I image Clojure is striking an acceptable balance. What does everyone else think? Rich --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Clojure documentation via mind map diagram
On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:06:29 -0700 (PDT) bc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, On my blog, I've posted an alternative way to navigate the Clojure documentation: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/081031.html - Bill Thanks for the docs. I use freemind to try and organise myself :P and it's very good but the groovy scripting engine is just begging to be replaced with Clojure :) bd --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
