Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-08 Thread Niels van Klaveren
SLF4J / Logback is a fine system for logging, including reduced log line 
work done when not logging (instead of the normal filtering system), and 
also features an optional asynchronous appender. Even without it, it can 
perfectly handle the load when configured correctly.

However, when run through the Tanuki for Windows Java executable/service 
wrapper, any loglines written to stdout will be redirected by the service 
wrapper to not only being logged to the intended logfiles, but also to the 
console and the Tanuki logs. This splitting / redirection creates a 
blocking bottleneck that reduced log throughput between 1000x and 1x. 
No amount of buffering could alleviate that.

That's why I suggested performance should be checked with and without 
wrapper to see if there is a difference there.

In the last case I hinted at, a developer config ended up in a production 
environment, causing logs not going through their specialized channels to 
the logfiles but through stdout, and therefore through the wrapper 
bottleneck. This caused end user actions which would normally be sub 
second, to take up to 10-100 seconds.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 12:37:36 PM UTC+2, Fluid Dynamics wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 5:41:47 AM UTC-4, Niels van Klaveren wrote:
>>
>> Colin, be aware that running through service wrappers can introduce a lot 
>> of overhead / blocking on logging due to stdout redirects.
>> Our application had to switch to SLF4J / Logback, since logging with JUL, 
>> Log4J or to console / stdout and incorrectly configuring the wrapper could 
>> lead to 100 ms pauses caused by log blocking.
>> Even then, as I all too recently noticed, a simple configuration error 
>> could bring these problems back even when using SLF4J / Logback.
>>
>> That's something you might look into when there's no problem running as a 
>> jar, but occurring solely when run through a service wrapper.
>>
>
> What about putting some type of async construct between the generation of 
> log events and the actual logging?
>
> If thorough logging trumps throughput, maybe an async channel with a large 
> buffer size. If logging activity is heavy enough backpressure will 
> eventually reach and slow the producer.
>
> If throughput trumps thorough logging, send-off log messages to an agent 
> that does something like (swap! queue-atom #(conj (take queue-max %1) msg)) 
> and calls .notify on a latch. Elsewhere a thread polls the queue, consumes 
> the last item from it and outputs it to the log it if it's nonempty and 
> .waits the latch otherwise, and loops. Now log items pile up up to 
> queue-max if the producer overruns the consumer, but instead of 
> backpressure you get older items from the queue being dropped on the floor 
> if the log-writer can't keep up with the main system's generation of log 
> notifications. (Consumer now looks something like (loop [] (swap! 
> queue-atom #(do (reset! holder (last %)) (butlast %))) (if @holder (do (log 
> @holder) (reset! @holder nil)) (.wait latch)) (recur)).)
>
>

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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-08 Thread Fluid Dynamics
On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 5:41:47 AM UTC-4, Niels van Klaveren wrote:
>
> Colin, be aware that running through service wrappers can introduce a lot 
> of overhead / blocking on logging due to stdout redirects.
> Our application had to switch to SLF4J / Logback, since logging with JUL, 
> Log4J or to console / stdout and incorrectly configuring the wrapper could 
> lead to 100 ms pauses caused by log blocking.
> Even then, as I all too recently noticed, a simple configuration error 
> could bring these problems back even when using SLF4J / Logback.
>
> That's something you might look into when there's no problem running as a 
> jar, but occurring solely when run through a service wrapper.
>

What about putting some type of async construct between the generation of 
log events and the actual logging?

If thorough logging trumps throughput, maybe an async channel with a large 
buffer size. If logging activity is heavy enough backpressure will 
eventually reach and slow the producer.

If throughput trumps thorough logging, send-off log messages to an agent 
that does something like (swap! queue-atom #(conj (take queue-max %1) msg)) 
and calls .notify on a latch. Elsewhere a thread polls the queue, consumes 
the last item from it and outputs it to the log it if it's nonempty and 
.waits the latch otherwise, and loops. Now log items pile up up to 
queue-max if the producer overruns the consumer, but instead of 
backpressure you get older items from the queue being dropped on the floor 
if the log-writer can't keep up with the main system's generation of log 
notifications. (Consumer now looks something like (loop [] (swap! 
queue-atom #(do (reset! holder (last %)) (butlast %))) (if @holder (do (log 
@holder) (reset! @holder nil)) (.wait latch)) (recur)).)

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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-08 Thread Niels van Klaveren
Colin, be aware that running through service wrappers can introduce a lot 
of overhead / blocking on logging due to stdout redirects.
Our application had to switch to SLF4J / Logback, since logging with JUL, 
Log4J or to console / stdout and incorrectly configuring the wrapper could 
lead to 100 ms pauses caused by log blocking.
Even then, as I all too recently noticed, a simple configuration error 
could bring these problems back even when using SLF4J / Logback.

That's something you might look into when there's no problem running as a 
jar, but occurring solely when run through a service wrapper.

Regards,
Niels

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 6:37:05 PM UTC+2, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi Alan, 
>
> Interesting point about the memory, they are defaults everywhere though. I 
> am going to deploy on Windows 7 as a service rather than running java -jar 
> in a command window; it does produce a bunch of debugging and maybe Windows 
> 7 console compared to Windows XP console (for example) is the 
> differentiator. Straws, grasping etc. 
>
> No, the app never gets to respectable performance. 
>
> > On 7 Jul 2015, at 16:37, Alan Moore  > wrote: 
> > 
> > Maybe the JDK default memory/heap settings are different on Windows 7. 
> What is the memory pressure like on your Windows 7 system? 
> > 
> > You might need to give your app more memory or at least a larger initial 
> heap allocation. 
> > 
> > Does the app perform ok once it is up and running? 
> > 
> > Alan 
> > 
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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-07 Thread Steven Yi
Hi Colin,

I thought you might check:

* "java -version" to see if you're defaulting to client or server mode, and 
maybe use -server to force that if it comes up client
* "java -d64" to force 64-bit mode in case you have 32bit and 64bit JVM's 
there

This is assuming you're on a 64-bit Windows and want to run 64-bit JVM. 
 After that, I guess you might check if you have a firewall on and try 
disabling that to see if it changes anything.

steven



On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-4, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi Alan, 
>
> Interesting point about the memory, they are defaults everywhere though. I 
> am going to deploy on Windows 7 as a service rather than running java -jar 
> in a command window; it does produce a bunch of debugging and maybe Windows 
> 7 console compared to Windows XP console (for example) is the 
> differentiator. Straws, grasping etc. 
>
> No, the app never gets to respectable performance. 
>
> > On 7 Jul 2015, at 16:37, Alan Moore  > wrote: 
> > 
> > Maybe the JDK default memory/heap settings are different on Windows 7. 
> What is the memory pressure like on your Windows 7 system? 
> > 
> > You might need to give your app more memory or at least a larger initial 
> heap allocation. 
> > 
> > Does the app perform ok once it is up and running? 
> > 
> > Alan 
> > 
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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-07 Thread Colin Yates
Hi Alan,

Interesting point about the memory, they are defaults everywhere though. I am 
going to deploy on Windows 7 as a service rather than running java -jar in a 
command window; it does produce a bunch of debugging and maybe Windows 7 
console compared to Windows XP console (for example) is the differentiator. 
Straws, grasping etc.

No, the app never gets to respectable performance.

> On 7 Jul 2015, at 16:37, Alan Moore  wrote:
> 
> Maybe the JDK default memory/heap settings are different on Windows 7. What 
> is the memory pressure like on your Windows 7 system?
> 
> You might need to give your app more memory or at least a larger initial heap 
> allocation.
> 
> Does the app perform ok once it is up and running?
> 
> Alan
> 
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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-07 Thread Alan Moore
Maybe the JDK default memory/heap settings are different on Windows 7. What is 
the memory pressure like on your Windows 7 system?

You might need to give your app more memory or at least a larger initial heap 
allocation.

Does the app perform ok once it is up and running?

Alan

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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-06 Thread Colin Yates
Hi Nicolas, I don’t unfortunately (and I appreciate just how necessary focused 
demos are). It isn’t a blocker so I don’t have the time to investigate this 
much at the moment (major deadline approaching).

It is interesting that not many other people seem to be affected, and it is the 
kind of thing that you would immediately notice ;).

CLJ-703 is interesting, but this performance drop is happening when processing 
items from the DB, way after compilation. 

Thanks again.

> On 6 Jul 2015, at 00:50, Nicolas Modrzyk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Colin,
> 
> Would you have a subset of your app as a project on github/bitbucket so we 
> can help finding out ?
> 
> I am not sure it is related but the call to fsync in clojure
> 
> http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-703
> 
> looks slightly similar to what other people are seeing.
> 
> https://blogs.oracle.com/charlesLamb/entry/berkeley_db_java_edition_vs_wi
> 
> And that surprisingly slowed my app down on windows some time ago. (I gave up 
> investigating at that time to be honest)
> 
> Again, a small app similar to your set up would be great to help out. 
> 
> Kind Regards, 
> 
> On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 1:50:23 AM UTC+9, Colin Yates wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a Clojure/ClojureScript app using http-kit. When deployed on Windows 7 
> it is a insanely slow. For example, loading the first screen loads 
> immediately but then takes minutes to populate. The exact same jar on Windows 
> XP, OS X, Linux, Windows 2008 server etc. take a handful of seconds.
> 
> In total, 3 Windows 7 machines (including a fresh VM I just booted up, 
> installed Win7SP1 and all patches, installed latest JDK on and then ran the 
> JAR) exhibit the same performance. 2 OSXs, 1 Linux box and 1 Windows 2008 are 
> all fine.
> 
> Fortunately no-one is going to run the server on Windows 7, and using a 
> browser on Windows 7 to connect to the server running anywhere else is 
> absolutely fine. 
> 
> Anyone else run into this? Any pointers?
> 
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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-05 Thread Nicolas Modrzyk
Hi Colin,

Would you have a subset of your app as a project on github/bitbucket so we 
can help finding out ?

I am not sure it is related but the call to fsync in clojure

http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-703

looks slightly similar to what other people are seeing.

https://blogs.oracle.com/charlesLamb/entry/berkeley_db_java_edition_vs_wi

And that surprisingly slowed my app down on windows some time ago. (I gave 
up investigating at that time to be honest)

Again, a small app similar to your set up would be great to help out. 

Kind Regards, 

On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 1:50:23 AM UTC+9, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a Clojure/ClojureScript app using http-kit. When deployed on 
> Windows 7 it is a insanely slow. For example, loading the first screen 
> loads immediately but then takes minutes to populate. The exact same jar on 
> Windows XP, OS X, Linux, Windows 2008 server etc. take a handful of seconds.
>
> In total, 3 Windows 7 machines (including a fresh VM I just booted up, 
> installed Win7SP1 and all patches, installed latest JDK on and then ran the 
> JAR) exhibit the same performance. 2 OSXs, 1 Linux box and 1 Windows 2008 
> are all fine.
>
> Fortunately no-one is going to run the server on Windows 7, and using a 
> browser on Windows 7 to connect to the server running anywhere else is 
> absolutely fine. 
>
> Anyone else run into this? Any pointers?
>

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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-04 Thread Colin Yates
Thanks Shantanu, good old AOP to the rescue.

> On 4 Jul 2015, at 06:31, Shantanu Kumar  wrote:
> 
> Hi Colin,
> 
> If you know that the delay is happening in the server-side Clojure code, 
> maybe you can give https://github.com/kumarshantanu/espejito a try to 
> determine where in the call stack is the latency happening?
> 
> Shantanu
> 
> On Friday, 3 July 2015 22:20:23 UTC+5:30, Colin Yates wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a Clojure/ClojureScript app using http-kit. When deployed on Windows 7 
> it is a insanely slow. For example, loading the first screen loads 
> immediately but then takes minutes to populate. The exact same jar on Windows 
> XP, OS X, Linux, Windows 2008 server etc. take a handful of seconds.
> 
> In total, 3 Windows 7 machines (including a fresh VM I just booted up, 
> installed Win7SP1 and all patches, installed latest JDK on and then ran the 
> JAR) exhibit the same performance. 2 OSXs, 1 Linux box and 1 Windows 2008 are 
> all fine.
> 
> Fortunately no-one is going to run the server on Windows 7, and using a 
> browser on Windows 7 to connect to the server running anywhere else is 
> absolutely fine. 
> 
> Anyone else run into this? Any pointers?
> 
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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-04 Thread Colin Yates
Thanks both. I haven’t got that far (as it isn’t blocking me at this point) but 
task manager shows Java at 100% (of a core) on Windows 7 where as it is much 
much less on the other OSes. I think,as you say, the next step is profiling.

> On 3 Jul 2015, at 21:50, Timothy Baldridge  wrote:
> 
> Yourkit has free trials, give it a try. 
> 
> Timothy
> 
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Alex Miller  > wrote:
> Take thread dumps with ctrl-break and see what it's doing? Could be something 
> with the filesystem?
> 
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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-03 Thread Shantanu Kumar
Hi Colin,

If you know that the delay is happening in the server-side Clojure code, 
maybe you can give https://github.com/kumarshantanu/espejito a try to 
determine where in the call stack is the latency happening?

Shantanu

On Friday, 3 July 2015 22:20:23 UTC+5:30, Colin Yates wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a Clojure/ClojureScript app using http-kit. When deployed on 
> Windows 7 it is a insanely slow. For example, loading the first screen 
> loads immediately but then takes minutes to populate. The exact same jar on 
> Windows XP, OS X, Linux, Windows 2008 server etc. take a handful of seconds.
>
> In total, 3 Windows 7 machines (including a fresh VM I just booted up, 
> installed Win7SP1 and all patches, installed latest JDK on and then ran the 
> JAR) exhibit the same performance. 2 OSXs, 1 Linux box and 1 Windows 2008 
> are all fine.
>
> Fortunately no-one is going to run the server on Windows 7, and using a 
> browser on Windows 7 to connect to the server running anywhere else is 
> absolutely fine. 
>
> Anyone else run into this? Any pointers?
>

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Re: awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-03 Thread Timothy Baldridge
Yourkit has free trials, give it a try.

Timothy

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Alex Miller  wrote:

> Take thread dumps with ctrl-break and see what it's doing? Could be
> something with the filesystem?
>
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awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-03 Thread Alex Miller
Take thread dumps with ctrl-break and see what it's doing? Could be something 
with the filesystem?

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awful performance on Windows 7 compared to anything else

2015-07-03 Thread Colin Yates
Hi all,

I have a Clojure/ClojureScript app using http-kit. When deployed on Windows 
7 it is a insanely slow. For example, loading the first screen loads 
immediately but then takes minutes to populate. The exact same jar on 
Windows XP, OS X, Linux, Windows 2008 server etc. take a handful of seconds.

In total, 3 Windows 7 machines (including a fresh VM I just booted up, 
installed Win7SP1 and all patches, installed latest JDK on and then ran the 
JAR) exhibit the same performance. 2 OSXs, 1 Linux box and 1 Windows 2008 
are all fine.

Fortunately no-one is going to run the server on Windows 7, and using a 
browser on Windows 7 to connect to the server running anywhere else is 
absolutely fine. 

Anyone else run into this? Any pointers?

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