Re: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

And, by the way, why have you decided to repower with a diesel? A complete
rebuild on your A4 will result in a very suitable, effectively new, engine,
acceptable performance, and a yard bill about 25% of what it will cost to
repower with a diesel.


Rick Brass
Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Gerstle via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 10:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP,
transmission ratio)

Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the need to
ask...

I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the difficulty
in choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the appropriate engine
HP and transmission choices. I already have input from two other 35-1 owners
but am looking for a wider array of input. My old engine/tranny/prop is the
venerable Atomic-4, 1:1 tranny, 12x6 folding prop. The new engine will be a
BetaMarine... but either 20 or 25 HP depending on how much power a prop that
FITS can absorb through a choice of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.

As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the shaft from
7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 7/8" Aquamet shaft) or
worse - moving and replacing the strut to gain prop diameter - please
provide whatever real-world info you have on the prop (make, diameter,
pitch); engine HP, and transmission ratio that you are using on your 35-1.

It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the effective hub
length. For instance, my current folder places the blades 5 5/8" behind the
strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). The prop I am considering
(Flexofold 13") has only a 4.5" hub length, while a Martec 14" appears to be
a beefy 9" from hub to blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a large
effect on tip clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) recommends an
absolute minimum of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" + 1.4" clearance
from shaft center to hull) - I only have 8" clearance with a 4.5" hub) - a
longer prop hub allows for greater prop diameter (a very good thing). So
real-world experience - including your experience with speed, prop noise,
and vibration from using a small blade tip to hull clearance would be
invaluable to me. 

The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to recommend a
prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and recommended that I work
with a boat-builder to work out these choices.

Your actual numbers and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Carl Gerstle 
Impulse 
C&C 35-1 #149 
Portsmouth, RI 

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Re: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Carl;

I really suspect that you are approaching this repower from the wrong end.
Instead of trying to match the engine to the prop, you should start by
picking the engine.

My owner's manuals don't show the prop configurations for the 35-1, but do
show the mid-70's 30, 33, and 38. All of which came with an A4 as standard
equipment. The 30 had a 12x5 prop standard and a 14" prop for the optional
diesel, the 33 and the 38 had 16x10 props standard (with 2:1 reduction on
the 38) and also used 16" props on the optional diesel (which was a 25hp
Westerbeke on the 38). I'm pretty sure you will find room under your boat
for a 14" prop.

You comment that the hub of the  Martec folder is much longer than on the
Flexofold. That's true, and also true for the Gori folding prop. But the
length of the taper is the same for all the props, and when you look at the
Martec, you will notice that the end of the taper and the attaching nut are
way down inside the hub (which is not true for the Gori I have as a spare)
and the pivot point on the blades of a Martec are at least 3" BEHIND the end
of the shaft.

The A4 was rated in its day at 30HP, but if I recall it only produced about
18HP at the prop. A diesel will produce more torque than the A4, so a 20HP
diesel will get you to hull speed in flat water. But in chop and headwinds,
I suspect it will not be a stellar performer. Increased horsepower will help
with performance in adverse conditions. The Beta 20, 25, 30, and 35 are all
direct drop ins for the A4 so you could use any of them. Personally I'd
consider the 25 or 30 in preference to the 20. My 38 has a 36hp Universal
(which is the same block as the Beta 30 and 35) as a replacement for the A4
and I am very happy with the engine performance.

Once you have the engine selected and know the shaft size and gear
reduction, you can go to the prop manufacturers' websites and ask for a
recommendation for a prop. They will ask what model of boat, displacement,
waterline length, which engine and reduction gear, max rated RPM of the
engine, and some other stuff. Then they will tell you what size prop they
would recommend.

And the size will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I asked for quotes
from Martec, Flexofold, and Gori. I was replacing a 16x10 two blade fixed
prop. I got recommendations for both 16 and 17 inch diameters and pitches
from 10 to 10 1/2 to 12. I understand there are differences in performance
between manufacturers base on blade surface area and blade profiles.

So my recommendation would be to start by picking the engine and gear
reduction, and I would look at 25 to 30HP, then pick which type of prop and
manufacturer you prefer and get a prop quote.


Rick Brass
Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Gerstle via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 10:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP,
transmission ratio)

Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the need to
ask...

I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the difficulty
in choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the appropriate engine
HP and transmission choices. I already have input from two other 35-1 owners
but am looking for a wider array of input. My old engine/tranny/prop is the
venerable Atomic-4, 1:1 tranny, 12x6 folding prop. The new engine will be a
BetaMarine... but either 20 or 25 HP depending on how much power a prop that
FITS can absorb through a choice of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.

As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the shaft from
7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 7/8" Aquamet shaft) or
worse - moving and replacing the strut to gain prop diameter - please
provide whatever real-world info you have on the prop (make, diameter,
pitch); engine HP, and transmission ratio that you are using on your 35-1.

It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the effective hub
length. For instance, my current folder places the blades 5 5/8" behind the
strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). The prop I am considering
(Flexofold 13") has only a 4.5" hub length, while a Martec 14" appears to be
a beefy 9" from hub to blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a large
effect on tip clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) recommends an
absolute minimum of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" + 1.4" clearance
from shaft center to hull) - I only have 8" clearance with a 4.5" hub) - a
longer prop hub allows for greater prop diameter (a very good thing). So
real-world experience - including your experience with speed, prop noise,
and vibration from using a small blade tip to hull clearance would be
invaluable to me. 

The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to recommend a
prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and recommend

Re: Stus-List LED replacement bulbs

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

+2 marinebeam.com

On Sun, Nov 9, 2014, 12:59 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> +1 marinebeam.com
> On Nov 9, 2014 3:06 PM, "D. J. Platt via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>>   I have a 1982 C&C 32 and would like to replace the lights with LED
>> bulbs. I have replaced the complete fixture in the head, because the switch
>> was broken, at a cost of about $40.00. I see no need to replace all the
>> other fixtures if I can find replacement bulbs that fits an existing
>> fixture.   Has any one done this and, if so, where did you source your
>> bulbs?  Does anyone know how much power the flourescent fixtures draw?  I
>> have ben wondering if LED strips can be used to replace them.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> david
>>
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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>> page at:
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>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Awesome day! Vets Day

[Richard N. Bush via CnC-List]

Dennis, I have anchored there; a great place!
 

Richard
1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River Mile 596; winterized;



Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sun, Nov 9, 2014 11:51 am
Subject: Stus-List Awesome day!  Vets Day


Touché is anchored in Big Lagoon just south of the Pensacola Naval Air Station. 
It's sunny. 65 F with a 5 knot breeze. 

The Blue Angels home show and air show is this weekend. We are being treated to 
all manner of classic planes, biplanes, stunt planes, etc. performing loops, 
climbs, low passes, etc.  we can't see the low passes or ground activities from 
the anchorage but are enjoying everything we can see nonetheless.

The Blue Angels are scheduled to perform at 2.  

Happy Veteran's Day tomorrow to all who served. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville,LA

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List advice on oil filter brands

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

And there is a lot of diagnostic information in that debris that gets
trapped on the filter... quantity, size, shape and elemental composition of
debris particles is widely used to assess internal condition of lubricated
components...filter debris analysis is widely used especially on military
equipment like aircraft engines and gearboxes...the science is called
tribology

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 5:46 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The link below is probably the most comprehensive comparison of oil
> filters I've ever found.  It is a really good article for learning what
> makes a good oil filter and why Fram is widely considered junk.  After
> reading this article I started cutting open my used oil filters to make
> sure they were "built right".  As a result I have a lot of confidence in
> the build quality of Yanmar (OEM) filters.
>
>
> http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/129-1202-oil-filter-comparison-fodder/
>
> With the wix and fram cross referance websites you can find a lot of
> manufacturer specs.  From that you can also find larger filters (diameter x
> length ~ media surface area) that will fit your application.  I have found
> filters for both my cars that are 25-50% larger allowing for more captured
> contaminants before the bypass valve starts to open.
>
> Josh
> On Nov 8, 2014 5:51 PM, "Eric Frank via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> I remember a discussion about which brands of oil filters were better
>> (and worse).  In the days I changed the filter in my car myself, I always
>> used Fram because it was easy to find, but I remember from this list that
>> was not a good make.  Suggestions? This is for a 1980’s Perkins 30 HP
>> diesel, probably less than 20 hours per year.
>>
>> Eric Frank
>> Cat's Paw
>> C&C 35 Mk II
>> Mattapoisett, MA
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List LED replacement bulbs

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

+1 marinebeam.com
On Nov 9, 2014 3:06 PM, "D. J. Platt via CnC-List" 
wrote:

>   I have a 1982 C&C 32 and would like to replace the lights with LED
> bulbs. I have replaced the complete fixture in the head, because the switch
> was broken, at a cost of about $40.00. I see no need to replace all the
> other fixtures if I can find replacement bulbs that fits an existing
> fixture.   Has any one done this and, if so, where did you source your
> bulbs?  Does anyone know how much power the flourescent fixtures draw?  I
> have ben wondering if LED strips can be used to replace them.
>
> Thanks
>
> david
>
>
> ___
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>
> Email address:
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> page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List LED replacement bulbs

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Marinebeam.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "D. J. Platt via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a 1982 C&C 32 and would like to replace the lights with LED bulbs. I 
> have replaced the complete fixture in the head, because the switch was 
> broken, at a cost of about $40.00. I see no need to replace all the other 
> fixtures if I can find replacement bulbs that fits an existing fixture.   Has 
> any one done this and, if so, where did you source your bulbs?  Does anyone 
> know how much power the flourescent fixtures draw?  I have ben wondering if 
> LED strips can be used to replace them.
>  
> Thanks
>  
> david
> 
> ___
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> 
> Email address:
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> at:
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> 
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Stus-List LED replacement bulbs

[D. J. Platt via CnC-List]

I have a 1982 C&C 32 and would like to replace the lights with LED bulbs. I 
have replaced the complete fixture in the head, because the switch was broken, 
at a cost of about $40.00. I see no need to replace all the other fixtures if I 
can find replacement bulbs that fits an existing fixture.   Has any one done 
this and, if so, where did you source your bulbs?  Does anyone know how much 
power the flourescent fixtures draw?  I have ben wondering if LED strips can be 
used to replace them.

Thanks

david

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Re: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Carl,

My change to 1" shaft was not a big deal, small expense in the scheme 
of repower. No change to strut except new cutlass bearing (required 
anyhow). Kiwiprop recommended the size & pitch. Pitch is no big deal 
since it's easily adjustable, unlike a Maxprop.


It looks like their smallest diameter is 14.5". You nailed the hub 
vs. tip location relationship that allows a larger diameter prop. It 
also helps that our hull sweeps up nicely in that area, so any gain 
aft equals big rewards.


http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/cms/index.php/therange/kfp-composite-stainless

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

the following message on the subject was sent to the list last June:

I changed the prop shaft from 7/8' to 1" diameter.  And changed the 
location of the prop taper so it overhangs (aft) the cutlass bearing 
a bit more to get the tip clearance. (Reminding you that when you 
change an engine type, the output flange may not be in the same 
location as the A4.)


The strut and location is original. A new cutlass bearing is 
available with the same shell O.D. and a 1" prop shaft I.D.


I put in a "running take out" Yanmar 2QM20 which is a old style 
brute of an industrial type engine. Long stroke (for good torque) 
and slower RPM than modern but far too tall for the 35 mk-1. The 
Kiwi-prop people calculated I could swing a 17 1/2" wheel.
I went with 16" because I wanted to get a Kubota block engine in 
there eventually. The Kubota is a higher RPM engine. In Yanmar it 
would be closer in comparison to 3GM series.


As Dennis mentions the max diameter swing plane is important. A 
folding & feathering prop tend to have a hub which places the blades 
further aft than a fixed prop. The Kiwi-prop tips are the furthest 
aft of any prop that I have seen.


 In summary, same strut & location, 14" folder will be no problem, 
suggest 1" prop shaft to handle extra torque, go for low-profile engine.


Cheers, Russ

BTW, I found my Kubota engine, an old Universal diesel 25 HP and 
it's sitting in my shop awaiting install but the Yanmar keeps 
running and now it's summertime!




At 06:59 AM 09/11/2014, you wrote:
Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the 
need to ask...


I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the 
difficulty in choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the 
appropriate engine HP and transmission choices. I already have input 
from two other 35-1 owners but am looking for a wider array of 
input. My old engine/tranny/prop is the venerable Atomic-4, 1:1 
tranny, 12x6 folding prop. The new engine will be a BetaMarine... 
but either 20 or 25 HP depending on how much power a prop that FITS 
can absorb through a choice of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.


As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the 
shaft from 7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 
7/8" Aquamet shaft) or worse - moving and replacing the strut to 
gain prop diameter - please provide whatever real-world info you 
have on the prop (make, diameter, pitch); engine HP, and 
transmission ratio that you are using on your 35-1.


It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the 
effective hub length. For instance, my current folder places the 
blades 5 5/8" behind the strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). 
The prop I am considering (Flexofold 13") has only a 4.5" hub 
length, while a Martec 14" appears to be a beefy 9" from hub to 
blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a large effect on tip 
clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) recommends an 
absolute minimum of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" + 1.4" 
clearance from shaft center to hull) - I only have 8" clearance with 
a 4.5" hub) - a longer prop hub allows for greater prop diameter (a 
very good thing). So real-world experience - including your 
experience with speed, prop noise, and vibration from using a small 
blade tip to hull clearance would be invaluable to me.


The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to 
recommend a prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and 
recommended that I work with a boat-builder to work out these choices.


Your actual numbers and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Carl Gerstle
Impulse
C&C 35-1 #149
Portsmouth, RI
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Re: Stus-List Awesome day! Vets Day

[Evan Morgan via CnC-List]

Tuesday.
Thank you, Dennis. I envy your view (and warm weather)!
And thank you to all my brothers/sisters in arms; past and present.

Evan
USAF (retired)
1978 C&C 26 Encounter
Indianapolis

-Original Message-
From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
Sent: ‎11/‎9/‎2014 11:51 AM
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List Awesome day!  Vets Day

Touché is anchored in Big Lagoon just south of the Pensacola Naval Air Station. 
It's sunny. 65 F with a 5 knot breeze. 

The Blue Angels home show and air show is this weekend. We are being treated to 
all manner of classic planes, biplanes, stunt planes, etc. performing loops, 
climbs, low passes, etc.  we can't see the low passes or ground activities from 
the anchorage but are enjoying everything we can see nonetheless.

The Blue Angels are scheduled to perform at 2.  

Happy Veteran's Day tomorrow to all who served. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville,LA

Sent from my iPhone
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Stus-List Awesome day! Vets Day

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Touché is anchored in Big Lagoon just south of the Pensacola Naval Air Station. 
It's sunny. 65 F with a 5 knot breeze. 

The Blue Angels home show and air show is this weekend. We are being treated to 
all manner of classic planes, biplanes, stunt planes, etc. performing loops, 
climbs, low passes, etc.  we can't see the low passes or ground activities from 
the anchorage but are enjoying everything we can see nonetheless.

The Blue Angels are scheduled to perform at 2.  

Happy Veteran's Day tomorrow to all who served. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville,LA

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I'm swinging a 14x14 7/8"RH Martec 2 blade folder with a Universal 25xpb engine 
and standard tranny. I think the reduction is 2.05:1. 

I got the same from Chuck Angle from Flex-I-Fold in 2003. No prop he would 
recommend. 

Lately I've been thinking I could increase the pitch to 15. 

I cruise at 6.4 kts at 2450 rpm and can get 7.0 at Max rpm of 2900 with no 
smoke or laboring.

Hope this helps. 

Dennis C,
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Prop works 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2014, at 8:59 AM, Carl Gerstle via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the need to 
> ask...
> 
> I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the difficulty 
> in choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the appropriate engine HP 
> and transmission choices. I already have input from two other 35-1 owners but 
> am looking for a wider array of input. My old engine/tranny/prop is the 
> venerable Atomic-4, 1:1 tranny, 12x6 folding prop. The new engine will be a 
> BetaMarine... but either 20 or 25 HP depending on how much power a prop that 
> FITS can absorb through a choice of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.
> 
> As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the shaft from 
> 7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 7/8" Aquamet shaft) or 
> worse - moving and replacing the strut to gain prop diameter - please provide 
> whatever real-world info you have on the prop (make, diameter, pitch); engine 
> HP, and transmission ratio that you are using on your 35-1.
> 
> It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the effective hub 
> length. For instance, my current folder places the blades 5 5/8" behind the 
> strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). The prop I am considering (Flexofold 
> 13") has only a 4.5" hub length, while a Martec 14" appears to be a beefy 9" 
> from hub to blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a large effect on tip 
> clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) recommends an absolute 
> minimum of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" + 1.4" clearance from 
> shaft center to hull) - I only have 8" clearance with a 4.5" hub) - a longer 
> prop hub allows for greater prop diameter (a very good thing). So real-world 
> experience - including your experience with speed, prop noise, and vibration 
> from using a small blade tip to hull clearance would be invaluable to me. 
> 
> The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to recommend a 
> prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and recommended that I work 
> with a boat-builder to work out these choices.
> 
> Your actual numbers and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Carl Gerstle 
> Impulse 
> C&C 35-1 #149 
> Portsmouth, RI 
> 
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Re: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

Don't forget when you are calculating your clearances, that your new 
engine/transmission combination will likely result in the drive flange being 
in a different position fore and aft than the old one. This is not 
necessarily a bad thing, especially if you want the prop a bit further back 
to get more clearance, and that is how it works out. A "drive saver" would 
set the prop back a bit too.


Steve Thomas

- Original Message - 
From: "Carl Gerstle via CnC-List" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 9:59 AM
Subject: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP,transmission 
ratio)



Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the need to 
ask...


I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the 
difficulty in choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the 
appropriate engine HP and transmission choices. I already have input from 
two other 35-1 owners but am looking for a wider array of input. My old 
engine/tranny/prop is the venerable Atomic-4, 1:1 tranny, 12x6 folding 
prop. The new engine will be a BetaMarine... but either 20 or 25 HP 
depending on how much power a prop that FITS can absorb through a choice 
of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.


As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the shaft 
from 7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 7/8" Aquamet 
shaft) or worse - moving and replacing the strut to gain prop diameter - 
please provide whatever real-world info you have on the prop (make, 
diameter, pitch); engine HP, and transmission ratio that you are using on 
your 35-1.


It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the effective hub 
length. For instance, my current folder places the blades 5 5/8" behind 
the strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). The prop I am considering 
(Flexofold 13") has only a 4.5" hub length, while a Martec 14" appears to 
be a beefy 9" from hub to blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a 
large effect on tip clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) 
recommends an absolute minimum of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" 
+ 1.4" clearance from shaft center to hull) - I only have 8" clearance 
with a 4.5" hub) - a longer prop hub allows for greater prop diameter (a 
very good thing). So real-world experience - including your experience 
with speed, prop noise, and vibration from using a small blade tip to hull 
clearance would be invaluable to me.


The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to recommend 
a prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and recommended that I 
work with a boat-builder to work out these choices.


Your actual numbers and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Carl Gerstle
Impulse
C&C 35-1 #149
Portsmouth, RI

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Re: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

This is why I got another A4. I could not figure out how to get a decent
prop for a reduction gear engine without extending the shaft.

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Gerstle via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 10:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP,
transmission ratio)

Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the need to
ask...

I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the difficulty
in choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the appropriate engine
HP and transmission choices. I already have input from two other 35-1 owners
but am looking for a wider array of input. My old engine/tranny/prop is the
venerable Atomic-4, 1:1 tranny, 12x6 folding prop. The new engine will be a
BetaMarine... but either 20 or 25 HP depending on how much power a prop that
FITS can absorb through a choice of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.

As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the shaft from
7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 7/8" Aquamet shaft) or
worse - moving and replacing the strut to gain prop diameter - please
provide whatever real-world info you have on the prop (make, diameter,
pitch); engine HP, and transmission ratio that you are using on your 35-1.

It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the effective hub
length. For instance, my current folder places the blades 5 5/8" behind the
strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). The prop I am considering
(Flexofold 13") has only a 4.5" hub length, while a Martec 14" appears to be
a beefy 9" from hub to blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a large
effect on tip clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) recommends an
absolute minimum of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" + 1.4" clearance
from shaft center to hull) - I only have 8" clearance with a 4.5" hub) - a
longer prop hub allows for greater prop diameter (a very good thing). So
real-world experience - including your experience with speed, prop noise,
and vibration from using a small blade tip to hull clearance would be
invaluable to me. 

The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to recommend a
prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and recommended that I work
with a boat-builder to work out these choices.

Your actual numbers and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Carl Gerstle 
Impulse 
C&C 35-1 #149 
Portsmouth, RI 

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Re: Stus-List C&C 38 MK III Info

[Doug Allardyce via CnC-List]

Thanks Pierre,
That helps a lot. Impressive numbers. I'm lucky to get 30 degrees out of my
35-3, and I need to reef way before 15 TWS with the #1 up which is a mylar
sail.

Doug
_/)~~~_/) 

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Pierre
Tremblay via CnC-List
  Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 9:26 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 38 MK III Info


  Hi Doug,


  Avalanche has a wing keel. Cannot compare with the full keel, but I can
say that upwind performance is impressive. All the experience sailor at the
club think I have the full keel because I can point so well.


  With the genoa sheeted tight in the shrouds, the telltales are streaming
up to 27 degree AWA. At 25 AWA, the windward telltales are lifting, I can
hold 20 degree AWA for few minutes without stalling, but it is slow.


  I found the polar diagram of a C&C 38-3 full keel (from an ORC
International Certificate), and the VMG is at 42 degree TWA. Last summer, I
recorded my boat data during a race, and most of my tack where 85 degree
(there were no wind shift during those).


  It is tender that other sailboat, but not that much. With my cruising
sails, I have to reef early (15 knots TWS), but I think it is more related
to my old 15 years old cruising sails (read "potato bag shape"). During a
race, we had the #1 genoa up, and with 15 knots TWS, never heeled more than
22 degree. With the huge sail plan, it heel faster that other boat, but it
rapidly sits on its cheeks. Huge beam those 38-3. I have all sorts of
comment on my boat; it looks pregnant, looks like a squirrel with a mouthful
of nuts, etc...


  Around here (St-Lawrence 1000 Islands), the shoal draft is priceless.


  Pierre Tremblay
  Avalanche #54988
  C&C38-3 WK, hull #76


  De : Doug Allardyce via CnC-List 
  À : CnC- List 
  Envoyé le : samedi 8 novembre 2014 10h44
  Objet : Stus-List C&C 38 MK III Info


  I'm looking at a 1987 C&C 38 MK III with a wing keel. Does anyone out
there
  have any experience on how the upwind performance is with the wing keel at
  5' 6" draft vs the full keel at 7' 7" draft. I understand that the full
keel
  model will probably point better, I'm just trying to get a feel for what I
  might be giving up with the wing. Also curious to know how tender the boat
  might be. Plan to do some casual club racing.

  Doug
  _/)~~~_/) 




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Stus-List 35-1 drivetrain replacement (prop, engine HP, transmission ratio)

[Carl Gerstle via CnC-List]

Having searched the archives and not found this info, I feel the need to ask...

I am committed to a re-power this winter and am surprised at the difficulty in 
choosing an appropriate prop which then leads to the appropriate engine HP and 
transmission choices. I already have input from two other 35-1 owners but am 
looking for a wider array of input. My old engine/tranny/prop is the venerable 
Atomic-4, 1:1 tranny, 12x6 folding prop. The new engine will be a BetaMarine... 
but either 20 or 25 HP depending on how much power a prop that FITS can absorb 
through a choice of a 1.45:1, 2:1, or 2.6:1 transmission.

As I really don't want to face the added expense of upsizing the shaft from 
7/8" to 1" (even a 14" prop can be safely driven on a 7/8" Aquamet shaft) or 
worse - moving and replacing the strut to gain prop diameter - please provide 
whatever real-world info you have on the prop (make, diameter, pitch); engine 
HP, and transmission ratio that you are using on your 35-1.

It turns out that the prop make/model is critical due to the effective hub 
length. For instance, my current folder places the blades 5 5/8" behind the 
strut (5" hub, with 5/8" exposed shaft). The prop I am considering (Flexofold 
13") has only a 4.5" hub length, while a Martec 14" appears to be a beefy 9" 
from hub to blade pivot. So the length of the hub has a large effect on tip 
clearance. As Dave Gerr (The Propellor Handbook) recommends an absolute minimum 
of 10% clearance (a 14" prop thus needs 7" + 1.4" clearance from shaft center 
to hull) - I only have 8" clearance with a 4.5" hub) - a longer prop hub allows 
for greater prop diameter (a very good thing). So real-world experience - 
including your experience with speed, prop noise, and vibration from using a 
small blade tip to hull clearance would be invaluable to me. 

The problem is complex enough that Flexofold actually refused to recommend a 
prop, tranny drive ratio, and HP requirement; and recommended that I work with 
a boat-builder to work out these choices.

Your actual numbers and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Carl Gerstle 
Impulse 
C&C 35-1 #149 
Portsmouth, RI 

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Re: Stus-List C&C 38 MK III Info

[Pierre Tremblay via CnC-List]

Hi Doug,

Avalanche has a wing keel. Cannot compare with the full keel, but I can say 
that upwind performance is impressive. All the experience sailor at the club 
think I have the full keel because I can point so well.

With the genoa sheeted tight in the shrouds, the telltales are streaming up to 
27 degree AWA. At 25 AWA, the windward telltales are lifting, I can hold 20 
degree AWA for few minutes without stalling, but it is slow.

I found the polar diagram of a C&C 38-3 full keel (from an ORC International 
Certificate), and the VMG is at 42 degree TWA. Last summer, I recorded my boat 
data during a race, and most of my tack where 85 degree (there were no wind 
shift during those).

It is tender that other sailboat, but not that much. With my cruising sails, I 
have to reef early (15 knots TWS), but I think it is more related to my old 15 
years old cruising sails (read "potato bag shape"). During a race, we had the 
#1 genoa up, and with 15 knots TWS, never heeled more than 22 degree. With the 
huge sail plan, it heel faster that other boat, but it rapidly sits on its 
cheeks. Huge beam those 38-3. I have all sorts of comment on my boat; it looks 
pregnant, looks like a squirrel with a mouthful of nuts, etc...

Around here (St-Lawrence 1000 Islands), the shoal draft is priceless.

Pierre Tremblay 
Avalanche #54988 
C&C38-3 WK, hull #76
 


 De : Doug Allardyce via CnC-List 
À : CnC- List  
Envoyé le : samedi 8 novembre 2014 10h44
Objet : Stus-List C&C 38 MK III Info
  

I'm looking at a 1987 C&C 38 MK III with a wing keel. Does anyone out there
have any experience on how the upwind performance is with the wing keel at
5' 6" draft vs the full keel at 7' 7" draft. I understand that the full keel
model will probably point better, I'm just trying to get a feel for what I
might be giving up with the wing. Also curious to know how tender the boat
might be. Plan to do some casual club racing.

Doug
_/)~~~_/) 




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Re: Stus-List advice on oil filter brands

[Eric Frank via CnC-List]

Thanks, Josh, Dennis and Dwight for the rapid feedback.  Sounds like there are 
a number of good choices, but lots of input to stay away from Fram.  Think I’ll 
go with the K&N. Dwight, your comment about the 20 hrs makes sense to me, and 
the oil actually looks pretty clean.  I like to change the oil every year 
despite the low usage, and once that is drained, changing the filter is both 
easy and cheap.

Eric


> On Nov 9, 2014, at 4:52 AM, Josh Muckley  wrote:
> 
>> Follow the link if you want a PDF of the article for safe keeping.
>> 
>> https://docs.google.com/file/d/1GWN2wLUqfJ8QbUdxd1z8Jo2L24V2RVQIXLxN0ASuiXxe7ydOlpi8QCpiliBaQa2u449_fyFXE2LXfU8U/edit?usp=docslist_api
>> 
>> On Nov 8, 2014 5:51 PM, "Eric Frank via CnC-List"  
>> wrote:
>> I remember a discussion about which brands of oil filters were better (and 
>> worse).  In the days I changed the filter in my car myself, I always used 
>> Fram because it was easy to find, but I remember from this list that was not 
>> a good make.  Suggestions? This is for a 1980’s Perkins 30 HP diesel, 
>> probably less than 20 hours per year.
>> 
>> Eric Frank
>> Cat's Paw
>> C&C 35 Mk II
>> Mattapoisett, MA
> 
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Re: Stus-List Lions and tigers and bears, Oh My>Was Approved LED bulbs

[Letsgo Sailing via CnC-List]

The white is all around anchoring light. Red and Green are 120 deg.

Yanni Boatless in Ontario
Not for long.

92 Lebaron 3.0 convertible
95 LeBaron 3.0 turbo convertible
07 Yamaha Straotoliner S
SCRC 011059
SRO 26-6483

TURBO!cause bottles are for babies and superchargers blow!!!
Which would you rather have, go fast goodies or shiny shoes?
Your feet may look good but if your engine blows you ain't going nowhere


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: November 8, 2014 11:57 PM
To: 'Joe Della Barba'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com; 'Joe Della Barba';
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lions and tigers and bears, Oh My>Was Approved LED
bulbs

I found these, but they seem to be upside down:
http://www.perko.com/catalog/navigation_lights_under_20_meters/895/green_red
_all-round_navigation_light/ 

Marek

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe Della
Barba via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 11:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lions and tigers and bears, Oh My>Was Approved LED
bulbs

But where can you FIND a red over green?

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Brass via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 1:22 PM
To: 'Ronald B. Frerker'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Lions and tigers and bears, Oh My>Was Approved LED bulbs

Yes. The COLREGS specify 12m (39.4') as the upper limit for using an
all-around light on a power boat. I suppose that makes sense because for a
boat of 12 meters or more, there is a difference in the required visibility
of the stern light and masthead light, vs the all-around white light used
for anchor, aground, and various other light patterns. To meet those
visibility requirement, the all-around white light you use for anchoring
would need to be one designed for a boat over 50 meters.

But remember, if you use your all-around white light when motoring, you need
a way to turn off the stern light that you need to show when sailing.

With all the discussion about LEDs and running lights and steaming lights
and tri-color lights (Oh My!), it occurs to me that one configuration that
might be attractive to several folks on the list has not been mentioned.

Rule 25A specifies sidelights and a stern light when sailing, and 25B
species a tri-color at the top of the mast in place of the deck level lights
for sailboats under 20 meters.

But rule 25C allows a red all-around light over a green all-around light at
the top of the mast IN ADDITION TO the deck level running lights for a
sailboat of any length. Hence the mnemonic "Red over Green, I'm a sailing
machine." This configuration seems to be a solution which provides
visibility at longer range when near coastal or in sloppy waves, but still
keeps lights down low where those on small power boats are more apt to
notice them.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B.
Frerker via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 3:13 PM
To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running Lights >Approved LED bulbs

He mentions 26ft as a cutoff in his narrative, but it's 12m in the
literature.  I'm presuming the 12m is correct for the single all around
white light for motoring.
Ron
Wild Cheri



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Re: Stus-List advice on oil filter brands

[Letsgo Sailing via CnC-List]

Eric and Listers.

I found that synthetic fiber oil filters do the best job, therefore I used
WIX on my boat engines and I use large canister WIX in my cars and
motorcycles. At the same time I use AMSoil 100% synthetic which is "THE"
best oil to use on gas and diesel engines, keeps the engine clean and I mean
clean. Recently I rebuild two of my engines.  One that had since new with
270 thousand Kms treated always as far as I can remember with synthetic oil,
and I one that I bought as spare. The one with synthetic AMSoil was as clean
as new. 

Now that being said in an really old engine with a lot of contamination
synthetic oil will clean the buildup and might develop seal leaks.  

 

Yanni Boatless in Ontario

Not for long.

 

92 Lebaron 3.0 convertible

95 LeBaron 3.0 turbo convertible

07 Yamaha Straotoliner S

SCRC 011059

SRO 26-6483

 

TURBO!cause bottles are for babies and superchargers blow!!!

Which would you rather have, go fast goodies or shiny shoes?

Your feet may look good but if your engine blows you ain't going nowhere

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: November 9, 2014 4:46 AM
To: Eric Frank; C&C List; Eric Frank; C&C List
Subject: Re: Stus-List advice on oil filter brands

 

The link below is probably the most comprehensive comparison of oil filters
I've ever found.  It is a really good article for learning what makes a good
oil filter and why Fram is widely considered junk.  After reading this
article I started cutting open my used oil filters to make sure they were
"built right".  As a result I have a lot of confidence in the build quality
of Yanmar (OEM) filters.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/129-1202-oil-filter-comparison-fodd
er/

With the wix and fram cross referance websites you can find a lot of
manufacturer specs.  From that you can also find larger filters (diameter x
length ~ media surface area) that will fit your application.  I have found
filters for both my cars that are 25-50% larger allowing for more captured
contaminants before the bypass valve starts to open.

Josh

On Nov 8, 2014 5:51 PM, "Eric Frank via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I remember a discussion about which brands of oil filters were better (and
worse).  In the days I changed the filter in my car myself, I always used
Fram because it was easy to find, but I remember from this list that was not
a good make.  Suggestions? This is for a 1980's Perkins 30 HP diesel,
probably less than 20 hours per year.

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


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Re: Stus-List advice on oil filter brands

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Follow the link if you want a PDF of the article for safe keeping.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1GWN2wLUqfJ8QbUdxd1z8Jo2L24V2RVQIXLxN0ASuiXxe7ydOlpi8QCpiliBaQa2u449_fyFXE2LXfU8U/edit?usp=docslist_api
On Nov 8, 2014 5:51 PM, "Eric Frank via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I remember a discussion about which brands of oil filters were better (and
> worse).  In the days I changed the filter in my car myself, I always used
> Fram because it was easy to find, but I remember from this list that was
> not a good make.  Suggestions? This is for a 1980's Perkins 30 HP diesel,
> probably less than 20 hours per year.
>
> Eric Frank
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
>
>
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Re: Stus-List advice on oil filter brands

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The link below is probably the most comprehensive comparison of oil filters
I've ever found.  It is a really good article for learning what makes a
good oil filter and why Fram is widely considered junk.  After reading this
article I started cutting open my used oil filters to make sure they were
"built right".  As a result I have a lot of confidence in the build quality
of Yanmar (OEM) filters.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/129-1202-oil-filter-comparison-fodder/

With the wix and fram cross referance websites you can find a lot of
manufacturer specs.  From that you can also find larger filters (diameter x
length ~ media surface area) that will fit your application.  I have found
filters for both my cars that are 25-50% larger allowing for more captured
contaminants before the bypass valve starts to open.

Josh
On Nov 8, 2014 5:51 PM, "Eric Frank via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I remember a discussion about which brands of oil filters were better (and
> worse).  In the days I changed the filter in my car myself, I always used
> Fram because it was easy to find, but I remember from this list that was
> not a good make.  Suggestions? This is for a 1980's Perkins 30 HP diesel,
> probably less than 20 hours per year.
>
> Eric Frank
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
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