Re: Stus-List Cabin Heat

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Joe,

The one caveat I have heard involves taking too much waste heat out of a small 
diesel engine resulting in running cooler than optimum.

Calypso has a Perkins 4-108 4 cylinder diesel engine.  To heat Calypso’s cabin 
we would have needed two heat exchangers and at least 60’ of hose.  Several 
diesel mechanics I talked with indicated the Perkins 4-108, in typical PNW 
usage and 50F temp raw water did not have an over-abundance of waste heat.

If the engine operating temp would not be an issue for your installation I have 
heard good things about the Red Hot brand of heat exchangers but I have not 
installed one.

We chose to install a Webasto Thermo-90S diesel heater to heat its own coolant 
that circulates through a domestic water heater and three heat exchangers.  The 
system is able to heat the cabin to 75F+ on winter days and provide plenty of 
hot water for galley or shower use.  The system ran for 16 years before its 
first service call (last week).  Changing out a burner assembly, fuel and 
coolant filters, and balancing the air intake and exhaust hoses was all that 
was needed.  The Webasto T-90 is now set to provide enough heat for us to paint 
and cure epoxy all winter.

Sure Marine in Seattle provided the parts and service and I was very satisfied. 
 I expect they also sell engine waste heat powered heat exchangers if you are 
looking for professional advice.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 8:31 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Stus-List Cabin Heat

Does anyone have hot water cabin heat?
I am converting my engine to FWC and am planning to install a cabin heater. I 
am wondering if anyone has done this and where they put the heater. I am not 
looking forward to buying 70 feet of hose, but I think having the heater 
forward will work better than back aft.
Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I
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Re: Stus-List Cabin Heat

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Joe

I did this last month on my Frers 33.  I used the Heater Craft cabin heater 
that I purchased at The Binnacle in Halifax 
http://ca.binnacle.com/p8587/HEATER-CRAFT-COMPACT-CABIN-HEATER/product_info.html
  This is also the same heater as is installed in the C Koobalibra that we 
race.

The location I chose for installation was on the knee wall of the port side 
quaterberth facing into the cabin.  I did this for several reasons influenced 
heavily by having nowhere else close to the engine to install it.  I took the 
coolant line that feeds the hot water heater and diverted it to the cabin 
heater first and from there to the hot water heater.  The location I chose is 
extremely close to the engine which also was a contributing factor.  My biggest 
concern is that the coolant lines now running in a locker are at risk of being 
damaged or bumped into by items stored in that locker.  This I rectify by not 
storing anything in that locker.  Some sort of partition will likely be 
installed prior to next season to protect the coolant lines.

The entire installation process took me 2.5 hours.  It also requires electrical 
connections to a fuse on your fuse panel so running the wires can take as long 
as the coolant hoses.  The kit came with everything I needed except extra 
coolant hose and clamps.  All necessary wiring was included.

The heater works well when the RPMS are 2000 or higher.  I run on either the 
low or the high fan settings.

Hope this helps

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:31 PM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Stus-List Cabin Heat

Does anyone have hot water cabin heat?
I am converting my engine to FWC and am planning to install a cabin heater. I 
am wondering if anyone has done this and where they put the heater. I am not 
looking forward to buying 70 feet of hose, but I think having the heater 
forward will work better than back aft.
Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I
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Stus-List Volvo Ardic Heater Help

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

My heater/furnace is working, but runs quite rich. There is very little
info online that I can find. I've opened up the heater, but there was no
apparent way that I saw to dial back the fuel delivery.
Has anybody experience with this heater or can intuit what could be causing
this heater to run rich? Our boat is an 1989 C 30mkII. I assume the
heater to be of the same vintage.

Thanks,
Kevin 30-2
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Stus-List Lewmar Ocean Series 60 hatch for sale (used)

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

I bought a used hatch, complete with Nicro solar vent, to replace my
forward hatch.  However, the frame has a flange, and the frame is slightly
narrower than the old hatch frame, so I have decided to have the old hatch
welded again.

Plexi and solar panel are crazed but serviceable.  I've got a new battery
for the vent.

$275 plus shipping.

Contact me off list if interested.

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List The platform question

[David via CnC-List]

Seconded...

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 11:03:07 -0500
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List The platform question
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: e...@schillay.com

Marek,
I spoke with Stu about the site and list at the Northeast Rendezvous and he 
said he’s not planning to end anytime soon — great news for us. 
Nevertheless, when that time does come, I would be happy to take over if 
everyone, especially Stu, is agreeable to the idea. 

All the best,
Edd

Edd M. SchillayStarship EnterpriseC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BCity Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log



On Nov 2, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
wrote:I would second that. You do a really good job, Stu, and we all appreciate 
it. I think the idea of a periodic fund drive is quite good. If I may suggest 
something, I would say that another good idea would be to find someone who 
could step up, when Stu is no longer able to continue. From a simple IT 
perspective a backup plan would certainly help. MarekC, but still 
finding a lot of good information here 
On Nov 2, 2015 1:37 PM, "Stu via CnC-List"  wrote:Just a 
bit of history on our list and what the future holds. Back in the mid 90’s, 
when most of us had dial-up internet connections, we had a mailing list hosted 
by Sailnet.  They went through some financial difficulties, and decided to 
charge a $20 yearly fee to participate.  That upset a lot of people, not only 
C, but other groups.  Everybody dropped off the list.  Some people decided 
to start Forums and social networking sites on Yahoo and other places.  Nothing 
worked like our old list. People were losing contact with each other and we 
needed a new venue.  I decided to find an ISP that would host a mailing list 
program and not limit us to a certain number of emails per hour.  Believe me 
they are hard to find and prices were outrageous.  Finally I found our current 
host and we have been with them for over 10 years. Then someone came along with 
a suggestion for a Forum similar to Sailing Arnachy and even Sailnet.  I did 
not like what I saw but I installed a Forum on the Photo Album.  Response was 
slow to nil.  Everyone posted on this list and very few people went to the 
Forum.  Finally I took it down – no sense wasting disc space and bandwidth. 
During the past few years, I have had many, many compliments regarding the 
email list.  Several comments included the politeness of the subscribers; no 
politics, sex, religion, bashing or flaming.  A few people had left the C 
family but continue to be subscribers and offer their valuable info.  The list 
has people who do not own a C and contribute when and where they can. So, the 
subject of having a Forum is a done deal.  It is of no use to the present 
subscribers.  Each week there are new subscribers and very few people who 
unsubscribe.  Right now, we have over 700 subscribers and I have no intention 
of disappointing them. I pay for the list out of my own pocket and from 
contributions from our members.  There is no company supporting the list.  The 
only time that this list will shut down, is when the funds dry up or I go for 
my last sail to the heavens above.  The cost has gone up considerably since the 
start and as the archives grow, I get dinged for extra disc space plus the 
monthly charge for the hosting. For people who have difficulty searching the 
archives, go to the main page of the Photo Album, scroll down near the bottom 
and there is a box called “Search the Email Discussion List Archives”, enter 
your search word(s) and press GO.  The search is actually a Google Search of 
all the archives and you will get many pages of results.  It is not like 
looking at the list archives which I will admit are difficult to navigate. Hope 
this email will help everyone understand the Email Discussion List a little bit 
more and appreciate it even more. Stu – and just another short note – I do not 
own a C and have not been on one in over 5 years but the friendship from this 
list keeps me going.

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Stus-List cabin heat

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

I have a small heater in on Pulse (C 33 MkII) (yanmar 2GM20F) put it in the 
cabinet under the galley sink, ran the line from the engine through the heater 
with bypass valves, to the heat exchanger on the water heater.  Bought a 
compact all in one unit from Princess Auto. It has a small fan much the size of 
a cooling fan from a computer in it. Kept the cabin warm on the way back from 
Muskegon (430 miles) through Mackinaw this spring through some adverse weather 
conditions. I got no complaints from the galley staff. ;) Its out of sight  
until I need heat, then I just open the cabinet door, flip the switch and open 
a valve.

Sent, miraculously through cyberspace, 
from my iPad!
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Stus-List Dimension Polyant Hydranet Radial sailcloth

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

All,

I'm about to order a new tri-radial main.  My sailmaker is offering a
ridiculous promo price on a sail made with HydraNet.

The other option is Challenger Warp Drive.

Recommendations?

Joel


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Cabin Heat

[Graham Collins via CnC-List]

Hi Joe
I've got a unit like Mike's Heatercraft, under the settee, and I've got 
a two vent unit under the v-berth, this feeds into the v-berth and also 
into the head.  I'm running an Espar though, not running it off the 
engine.  Works great.


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2015-11-03 12:31 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


Does anyone have hot water cabin heat?

I am converting my engine to FWC and am planning to install a cabin 
heater. I am wondering if anyone has done this and where they put the 
heater. I am not looking forward to buying 70 feet of hose, but I 
think having the heater forward will work better than back aft.


Joe

Coquina

C 35 MK I



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Re: Stus-List outboard size

[Patrick Wesley via CnC-List]

If you're going to beach the dinghy and leave it unattended get an OB with a 
removable deadman switch. Patrick 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
>  
> We used a +- 2 hp on an 10” high pressure floor inflatable around the PNW for 
> years.  The ability to lift it on and off one handed was the best part.  With 
> two or three people onboard it was a bit slow for me.  Once, the 2hp outboard 
> was not able to pull a long stern tie line ashore without some rowing 
> assistance.  Up wind or up current was sometimes very slow.
>  
> Now we have a 6 hp 4 stroke. It is much heavier with the associated on/off 
> issues especially when anchored.  It was able to obtain good speeds but not 
> plane with 4 adults in the dinghy.  We used it for our trip around Vancouver 
> Island and the extra power was needed several times in higher wind or current 
> areas.  The lower fuel economy with the 6 hp made it necessary to monitor our 
> gasoline supplies closer than with the 2 hp.
>  
> Martin DeYoung
> Calypso
> 1971 C 43
> Seattle
> 
> 
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
> Jones via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:32 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Michael Jones
> Subject: Stus-List outboard size
>  
> Ls and Gs
> 
> Can you help me? I have recently bought an 8ft inflatable as tender and am 
> looking at second hand outboard options. Can you advise me of adequate size 
> required? Specifically I have seen a 2,2 hp advertised. Will that be enough 
> to potter to the dock and back? The safety sticker on the boat says up to 5hp 
> but that seeems a bit much and heavy.
> 
> Thanks and regards
> 
> Mike Jones
> Seanachai, 1981 C 34
> Victoria
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List The platform question

[Janko Puls via CnC-List]

Hi Stu, and all list members,

I am positively overwhelmed by the friendliness on this list. Since being a 
list newbie (with 35 years of sailing under my keel though) I stepped into hot 
water here asking why this wouldn't be organized differently, four list members 
took it upon themselves to explain me per private email in the most friendly 
way why the list is run how it is run. 

Stu himself gave an excellent background how and why he is running it. Thank 
you all, and thank you especially, Stu. I appreciate that you all not simply 
bark but make me understand how things work here. Yes, the system is 
technically outdated and awkward, but there were several good points to keep it 
like this. I'll probably do all of us a favor not to repeat them yet again.

One last thing though: Stu, would you consider putting up an Paypal button on 
the website to make donating as simple as milk? I also second the idea of a 
periodic fund drive.


Best,
Janko

1980 C 30 MKI 'Messing About'
Larchmont, NY


--
Point of View New York City: A Game of The City You THINK You Know
A photo book by Janko Puls. 

+++ Photos, reviews and more at 
www.pointofviewnyc.com[http://www.pointofviewnyc.com] or 
www.facebook.com/pointofviewnyc[http://www.facebook.com/pointofviewnyc] +++

B Photo's Event Space on Wednesday, November 11, from 4-6pm
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/eventDetails.jsp/id/2188

Greenwich Village Society for Historical Preservation's pre-holiday "book fair" 
on Tuesday, November 17th, from 6.30-8pm
http://www.gvshp.org/_gvshp/events/upcoming.htm

From: Marek Dziedzic 

I would second that. You do a really good job, Stu, and we all appreciate it. I 
think the idea of a periodic fund drive is quite good.

If I may suggest something, I would say that another good idea would be to find 
someone who could step up, when Stu is no longer able to continue. From a 
simple IT perspective a backup plan would certainly help.

Marek

C, but still finding a lot of good information here

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Re: Stus-List Dimension Polyant Hydranet Radial sailcloth

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

It is Dacron with dynemma.

Joel

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Is the Dimension Polyant a square weave Dacron?  If so, I have a main, #2
> and #3 made from it. Nice stuff.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 3, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I'm about to order a new tri-radial main.  My sailmaker is offering a
> ridiculous promo price on a sail made with HydraNet.
> >
> > The other option is Challenger Warp Drive.
> >
> > Recommendations?
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joel
> > 301 541 8551
> > ___
> >
> > Email address:
> > CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> >
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Dimension Polyant Hydranet Radial sailcloth

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Is the Dimension Polyant a square weave Dacron?  If so, I have a main, #2 and 
#3 made from it. Nice stuff. 

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 3, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> I'm about to order a new tri-radial main.  My sailmaker is offering a 
> ridiculous promo price on a sail made with HydraNet.
> 
> The other option is Challenger Warp Drive.
> 
> Recommendations?
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 

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Re: Stus-List Cabin Heat

[Rick via CnC-List]

Joe,

I did have a Red Dot unit installed in a previous boat that had a two speed 
fan. High, and Inferno were the settings.  No thermostat! but it only ran when 
the engine was fully charging!  It was mounted in the engine space and vented 
forward.  One vent, but man it blew hot air like nobody’s business.  

Even then we sailed in the NW year round, and that heater made the winter 
tolerable.  In the winter there is too much weather or too little, so we did 
plenty of motoring.   Took less than an hour to turn the boat into a very dry 
and comfortable place to hang out.  We then would maintain with diesel heat 
while onboard.  

I am looking for a unit like this to push engine heat through the existing 
heating system aboard our C 37+ (Espar D2 with 4 outlets), and I think I have 
found it at Fisheries Supply.  

My Controller (wife too) is very close to signing off on that purchase.  She is 
so cool! (just in case she reads this, I am buttering her up).  Christmas Eve 
with the family will be in Seattle/Bell Harbor on the boat, so it has to be 
warm!

Merry Merry!

Rick

Paikea 37+

Poulsbo, WA









Sent from Windows Mail





From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎November‎ ‎3‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎37‎ ‎PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Graham Collins




Hi Joe
I've got a unit like Mike's Heatercraft, under the settee, and I've got a two 
vent unit under the v-berth, this feeds into the v-berth and also into the 
head.  I'm running an Espar though, not running it off the engine.  Works great.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2015-11-03 12:31 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:




Does anyone have hot water cabin heat?

I am converting my engine to FWC and am planning to install a cabin heater. I 
am wondering if anyone has done this and where they put the heater. I am not 
looking forward to buying 70 feet of hose, but I think having the heater 
forward will work better than back aft.

Joe

Coquina

C 35 MK I



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Re: Stus-List Outboard size

[Damian Greene via CnC-List]

Mike,
I will echo the feedback below from Martin.
We had a Honda 2HP, bought expressly because it was light enough to easily lift 
on and off. However, it just was not powerful enough if we found ourselves in 
rough water / strong wind / current / exposed mooring.
I switched to a Tohatsu 6HP, and have been much happier with its ability to 
deal safely with difficult conditions.
I purchased a FORESPAR Motor Mate "outboard motor crane", that mounts on the 
pushpit. That makes it an easy process to lift the motor off the dinghy, and 
swing it around to fasten on the rail while underway. Much easier and safer 
than lifting the motor by hand - and better for my marriage.
Regards,
Damian Greene
1983 C 34 GHOSTBass Harbor, Maine 


On Oct 26, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
 wrote:


 Mike,    
We used a +- 2 hp on an 10” high pressure floor inflatable around the PNW for 
years.  The ability to lift it on and off one handed was the best part.  With 
two or three people onboard it was a bit slow for me.  Once, the 2hp outboard 
was not able to pull a long stern tie line ashore without some rowing 
assistance.  Up wind or up current was sometimes very slow.    Now we have a 6 
hp 4 stroke. It is much heavier with the associated on/off issues especially 
when anchored.  It was able to obtain good speeds but not plane with 4 adults 
in the dinghy.  We used it for our trip around Vancouver Island and the extra 
power was needed several times in higher wind or current areas.  The lower fuel 
economy with the 6 hp made it necessary to monitor our gasoline supplies closer 
than with the 2 hp.    Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Seattle 
    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Michael 
Jones via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:32 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Jones
Subject: Stus-List outboard size    Ls and Gs Can you help me? I have recently 
bought an 8ft inflatable as tender and am looking at second hand outboard 
options. Can you advise me of adequate size required? Specifically I have seen 
a 2,2 hp advertised. Will that be enough to potter to the dock and back? The 
safety sticker on the boat says up to 5hp but that seeems a bit much and heavy. 
Thanks and regards Mike Jones Seanachai, 1981 C 34 Victoria

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Re: Stus-List The platform question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Marek,

I spoke with Stu about the site and list at the Northeast Rendezvous and he 
said he’s not planning to end anytime soon — great news for us. 

Nevertheless, when that time does come, I would be happy to take over if 
everyone, especially Stu, is agreeable to the idea. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 



> On Nov 2, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I would second that. You do a really good job, Stu, and we all appreciate it. 
> I think the idea of a periodic fund drive is quite good.
>  
> If I may suggest something, I would say that another good idea would be to 
> find someone who could step up, when Stu is no longer able to continue. From 
> a simple IT perspective a backup plan would certainly help.
>  
> Marek
> C, but still finding a lot of good information here
>  
> 
> On Nov 2, 2015 1:37 PM, "Stu via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> Just a bit of history on our list and what the future holds.
>  
> Back in the mid 90’s, when most of us had dial-up internet connections, we 
> had a mailing list hosted by Sailnet.  They went through some financial 
> difficulties, and decided to charge a $20 yearly fee to participate.  That 
> upset a lot of people, not only C, but other groups.  Everybody dropped 
> off the list.  Some people decided to start Forums and social networking 
> sites on Yahoo and other places.  Nothing worked like our old list.
>  
> People were losing contact with each other and we needed a new venue.  I 
> decided to find an ISP that would host a mailing list program and not limit 
> us to a certain number of emails per hour.  Believe me they are hard to find 
> and prices were outrageous.  Finally I found our current host and we have 
> been with them for over 10 years.
>  
> Then someone came along with a suggestion for a Forum similar to Sailing 
> Arnachy and even Sailnet.  I did not like what I saw but I installed a Forum 
> on the Photo Album.  Response was slow to nil.  Everyone posted on this list 
> and very few people went to the Forum.  Finally I took it down – no sense 
> wasting disc space and bandwidth.
>  
> During the past few years, I have had many, many compliments regarding the 
> email list.  Several comments included the politeness of the subscribers; no 
> politics, sex, religion, bashing or flaming.  A few people had left the C 
> family but continue to be subscribers and offer their valuable info.  The 
> list has people who do not own a C and contribute when and where they can.
>  
> So, the subject of having a Forum is a done deal.  It is of no use to the 
> present subscribers.  Each week there are new subscribers and very few people 
> who unsubscribe.  Right now, we have over 700 subscribers and I have no 
> intention of disappointing them.
>  
> I pay for the list out of my own pocket and from contributions from our 
> members.  There is no company supporting the list.  The only time that this 
> list will shut down, is when the funds dry up or I go for my last sail to the 
> heavens above.  The cost has gone up considerably since the start and as the 
> archives grow, I get dinged for extra disc space plus the monthly charge for 
> the hosting.
>  
> For people who have difficulty searching the archives, go to the main page of 
> the Photo Album, scroll down near the bottom and there is a box called 
> “Search the Email Discussion List Archives”, enter your search word(s) and 
> press GO.  The search is actually a Google Search of all the archives and you 
> will get many pages of results.  It is not like looking at the list archives 
> which I will admit are difficult to navigate.
>  
> Hope this email will help everyone understand the Email Discussion List a 
> little bit more and appreciate it even more.
>  
> Stu – and just another short note – I do not own a C and have not been on 
> one in over 5 years but the friendship from this list keeps me going.

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Stus-List Cabin Heat

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Does anyone have hot water cabin heat?
I am converting my engine to FWC and am planning to install a cabin heater. I 
am wondering if anyone has done this and where they put the heater. I am not 
looking forward to buying 70 feet of hose, but I think having the heater 
forward will work better than back aft.
Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I
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