Re: Stus-List small start battery for yanmar 3hmf

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

It does not have to be that bad.

I don’t remember the source at the moment, but I have seen some calculations 
showing that if you need a large bank and you are pressed for space and weight, 
the LiFePO4 batteries can offer a decent value. As you mentioned, you need 
about half of the capacity (in Ah) (due to deeper discharge cycle), so you need 
fewer of them. They weigh less (per unit of capacity), so you have 
substantially less then half the weight. And they take substantially less room. 
They would probably cost substantially more, but they would last more 
(substantially more discharge cycles). So you may need to compare the cost to 
several sets of the lead acid batteries. From what I have read and seen, the 
biggest kicker is the charging system. You would need a new alternator, a new 
(and sophisticated) controller, a Battery Monitoring System etc. Your $2500 
investment in batteries might be just the beginning.

For anyone interested, I suggest this reading: 
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats=1. And this guy knows 
what he is talking about.

Marek

From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 5:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dreuge 
Subject: Re: Stus-List small start battery for yanmar 3hmf

Josh,

I looked into this a bit more, and while I still think it is wrong to use 
“EqAh”, the concept is not as misleading as I originally thought.

The claim is the depth of discharge for Li-Fe batteries is 95% whereas for 
lead-acid batteries this is 50%.  In other words, a 110Ah lead-acid battery has 
only 55Ah of usable deep cycle capacity whereas a 110Ah Li-Fe battery would 
have 105Ah of usable deep cycle capacity.  This would give a 6 Ah Li-Fe battery 
12 EqAh_deep_cycle.  [at this time the largest capacity is only 12 Ah (36 EqAh) 
~$300]

For engine starting, the capacity drain at higher loads is non-linear for lead 
acid batteries due to high internal battery resistance.   That is 1A draw for 
110hr would completely drain a 110Ah lead-acid battery, but at 150A the battery 
would drain out in 1/4 hr (or even much less, not 3/4 hr as 110Ah capacity 
suggests). The claim is that the Li-Fe batteries have much less internal 
resistance which why they use the “EqAh” (or AH PBEq).

It is sort of like using Watts to measure lightbulb intensity. 

Below is an interesting exercise demonstrating why we likely have not 
heard much about Li-Fe battery for marine deep cycle use. 


*** Two energy-wise equivalent deep cycle battery banks ***

Duracell EGC2   6V golf cart batteries  [Batteries Plus $109.99   64 lbs]
12V 230Ah  (115 Ah usable) battery bank  (2  batteries)
total cost: $220   
total weight:  128 lbs

LFX36A3-BS12 Shorai 12v 36 AH PBEq LiFePO4 Power Sports Battery 
[BatteryStuff.com $295.95  5 lbs]
12V 120Ah (114 Ah usable) battery bank(10  batteries)
total weight: 50 lbs
total cost: $2959.50


On the other hand, someone may be willing to spend $300 for a 540CCA battery 
that weighs in at only 4.96 pounds,
has a foot print of Length 6.5" x  Width 3.4" x Height 6.1”, and can be mounted 
in any orientation(even upside down).




-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL
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Re: Stus-List small start battery for yanmar 3hmf

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Come on up Jake!  We got room.
On Dec 1, 2015 7:11 PM, "Jake Brodersen via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
>
>
> It sounds like I need to take a cruise on my Harley up to Solomons…
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 1, 2015 10:17
> *To:* C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List small start battery for yanmar 3hmf
>
>
>
> I have purchased a "spare"  3HM35F and it is sitting in my garage.  I have
> some old AGM batteries which used to be rated for 75Ahs.  They currently
> only test at about 6Ahs.  Since they were sitting around waiting for
> disposal I grabbed one and hooked it up.  It started the engine without a
> problem.  Keeping in mind that it isn't a "good" battery, it was only able
> to crank the engine for a total of about 45 seconds.  I think that one of
> those lithium batteries at 18Ahs would probably get you a minimum of about
> 3 minutes of crank time which should be more than enough.
>
> I'll tell you what, I'll do the testing if someone else provides the
> battery.   ;-)
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> ___
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

This is not the only one on the market. They are getting quite popular and 
prices vary.
A quick Google search found these articles (reviews): 
http://www.carbatterychargerscentral.com/car-starter-top-7-compact-battery-jump-starters/
 and 
http://www.autodeets.com/top-10-what-is-the-best-lithium-jump-starter-on-the-market/

mPower is listed there, but it is not #1. I found PowerAll quite available 
around here. I guess it all depends on the local market. Your prices (and 
mileage) will vary.

Btw. before these little portable batteries showed up on the market, I used an 
older portable car jump starter (with am AGM 12 Ah battery) as the only source 
of power on my previous boat (C 24). The outboard did not have the electric 
starter, so its charging circuits were not even close to what one would need 
(If I remember correctly it showed as 6 V!). The jump starter had a car 
accessory socket, which I used for connecting it to the boat (the boat acted 
like a one big accessory). I used it only for the VHF radio and the navigation 
lights, so there was not much current draw. Every so often I would take it home 
to recharge. It did work.

Marek

From: Chuck S via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:57 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: Chuck S 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.


C





From: "Indigo via CnC-List" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Indigo" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
Subject: Stus-List Jumper Batteries


I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack to 
keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel 3GMF, 
I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda Accord, and 
then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat with no other 
batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that had not been run 
since laying up in the winter. 

Specs from their website below!



  The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use. 

a.. Jump starts all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehicles 
b.. Fits in a glove box 
c.. Automatic On Technology 
d.. Multiple safety protection 
e.. High capacity battery technology 
f.. 600A peak current
  Technical Specifications: 

a.. Input: 12V 1A 
b.. Output: 12V 
c.. Jump start Start Current: 300A 
d.. Peak Current: 600A 
e.. Size: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38 
f.. Weight: 1.52 lbs. 
g.. Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° F 
h.. Battery Capacity: 13000mAh 
i.. Full Charging Time: Approx 4h

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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Chuck,

I don't know if you saw this on the other thread.  $50, 15Ah, the size and
weight of a large-ish hardback book.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GX4Y9AY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_UwExwbNFB55BK

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.

C

--
*From: *"Indigo via CnC-List" 
*To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc: *"Indigo" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
*Subject: *Stus-List Jumper Batteries

I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack to
keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel
3GMF, I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda
Accord, and then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat
with no other batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that
had not been run since laying up in the winter.

Specs from their website below!


The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use.

   - Jump starts all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehicles
   - Fits in a glove box
   - Automatic On Technology
   - Multiple safety protection
   - High capacity battery technology
   - 600A peak current

*Technical Specifications:*

   - Input: 12V 1A
   - Output: 12V
   - Jump start Start Current: 300A
   - Peak Current: 600A
   - Size: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38
   - Weight: 1.52 lbs.
   - Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° F
   - Battery Capacity: 13000mAh
   - Full Charging Time: Approx 4h


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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The whole package is the size and weight of a hardback book.   This
includes the alligator clamps, the charging cables, all of the charging
adapters, and the battery itself.

Josh
On Dec 2, 2015 9:04 AM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> I don't know if you saw this on the other thread.  $50, 15Ah, the size and
> weight of a large-ish hardback book.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GX4Y9AY/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_UwExwbNFB55BK
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.
>
> C
>
> --
> *From: *"Indigo via CnC-List" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc: *"Indigo" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
> *Subject: *Stus-List Jumper Batteries
>
> I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack
> to keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel
> 3GMF, I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda
> Accord, and then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat
> with no other batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that
> had not been run since laying up in the winter.
>
> Specs from their website below!
>
>
> The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use.
>
>- Jump starts all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehicles
>- Fits in a glove box
>- Automatic On Technology
>- Multiple safety protection
>- High capacity battery technology
>- 600A peak current
>
> *Technical Specifications:*
>
>- Input: 12V 1A
>- Output: 12V
>- Jump start Start Current: 300A
>- Peak Current: 600A
>- Size: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38
>- Weight: 1.52 lbs.
>- Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° F
>- Battery Capacity: 13000mAh
>- Full Charging Time: Approx 4h
>
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List little A hatches on a LF38

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Sorry, make that “eight by fifteen inches”.  I’ve got a call in to them to see 
if they still have the CNC pattern, and to get pricing.  Anyone else who might 
be interested, please post on the list and I’ll get back to you.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 2, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Frederick G Street  wrote:
> 
> Pete — this was at A1 Acrylics in Osseo.  Keep in mind that these are small 
> frameless-lens opening hatches over the galley and head on just a few models 
> of C’s.  The lenses aren’t very big (roughly five by twelve inches), in a 
> rounded rectangular shape, with some small cutouts for the hinges and a 
> groove cut in the face for a round gasket.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
>> On Dec 2, 2015, at 12:04 PM, Pete Shelquist > > wrote:
>> 
>> Fred – 
>> That sounds like a good price.  Is that local?
>>  
>> FYI I just had a new window cut by a local shop in Anoka and it was close to 
>> $200.
> 

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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Does anyone know if these are Lithium ion or Lithium Polmer, and if there is 
any advantage of one over the other? I know from my RC Plane that the LiPo 
batteries can catch on fire!

A friend brought one of these around once when my Jetta Diesel battery went 
stone cold, and it didn’t give it even a hiccup. He said he had started a 
Gradeall and a couple pickups with it, and thought it must have been DOA when 
he tried mine, so I was not given the chance to be amazed. I am really 
interested in these, but I would be even more if I had seen one bring my car up 
from the dead.

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 9:19 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic
Subject: Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

 

This is not the only one on the market. They are getting quite popular and 
prices vary.

A quick Google search found these articles (reviews): 
http://www.carbatterychargerscentral.com/car-starter-top-7-compact-battery-jump-starters/
 and 
http://www.autodeets.com/top-10-what-is-the-best-lithium-jump-starter-on-the-market/

 

mPower is listed there, but it is not #1. I found PowerAll quite available 
around here. I guess it all depends on the local market. Your prices (and 
mileage) will vary.

 

Btw. before these little portable batteries showed up on the market, I used an 
older portable car jump starter (with am AGM 12 Ah battery) as the only source 
of power on my previous boat (C 24). The outboard did not have the electric 
starter, so its charging circuits were not even close to what one would need 
(If I remember correctly it showed as 6 V!). The jump starter had a car 
accessory socket, which I used for connecting it to the boat (the boat acted 
like a one big accessory). I used it only for the VHF radio and the navigation 
lights, so there was not much current draw. Every so often I would take it home 
to recharge. It did work.

 

Marek

 

From: Chuck S via   CnC-List 

Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:57 PM

To: CNC boat   owners, cnc-list 

Cc: Chuck S   

Subject: Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

 

That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.

 

C

 

  _  

From: "Indigo via CnC-List" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: "Indigo" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
Subject: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

 

I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack to 
keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel 3GMF, 
I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda Accord, and 
then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat with no other 
batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that had not been run 
since laying up in the winter. 

 

Specs from their website below!





The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use. 

*   Jump starts all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehicles 
*   Fits in a glove box 
*   Automatic On Technology 
*   Multiple safety protection 
*   High capacity battery technology 
*   600A peak current

Technical Specifications: 

*   Input: 12V 1A 
*   Output: 12V 
*   Jump start Start Current: 300A 
*   Peak Current: 600A 
*   Size: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38 
*   Weight: 1.52 lbs. 
*   Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° F 
*   Battery Capacity: 13000mAh 
*   Full Charging Time: Approx 4h


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  _  

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Re: Stus-List Sails

[Douglas via CnC-List]

Edd

Thanks: I am checking into that. So far what I have been told is that any 
service in the area only collect the sails and then send them to the only place 
that cleans sails locally. It is a 8 hour round trip by car, so they use UPS. 
That runs the cost up. They charge $1.00+ per square foot plus shipping. I 
suspect it would run around $500 + to have my Genoa cleaned. But I am still 
checking. I guess that is the price to pay for living in the Salish Seas.

Larry

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 10:11 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sails

 

Larry,

 

You could go with a mild laundry detergent, but I would recommend using a 
winter storage and inspection service by your local sailmaker. They will not 
only clean your sail, they will inspect and do some repairs if needed. I’ve 
done this with UK quite a few times and the pricing is beyond reasonable. Come 
Spring, you pick up your clean, folded and repaired sail. 

 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log  

 












 






 

On Dec 2, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Douglas via CnC-List  wrote:

 

Happy Holiday Everyone

I purchased my boat a year ago and trying to learn everything I can, while at 
the same time spit and polish the boat.

She is a 38-ft MKIII. I just took the Jib/Genoa down to replace on the running 
rigging. Now I want to CLEAN and store the sail for the winter. I believe it is 
125% Genoa. Just not sure what material. It is neil pryde sail. 

The question is, what is the best way to clean such a large sail. I have read 
the solution should be a mild laundry detergent and fabric softener, Is this 
correct. 

I thought about putting a tarp in the back of my pickup bed and letting it soak 
overnight and then pulling it out by the head and scrubbing with a soft nylon 
brush on both sides as I go. I can take a couple of sawhorses and build a 4X8 
work platform to scrub on. Rinsing and flaking it onto another tarp on the 
ground. Then hanging it in the garage to dry.

Any thoughts. How do you all do it?

Thanks

Larry

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Stus-List Sails

[Douglas via CnC-List]

Happy Holiday Everyone

I purchased my boat a year ago and trying to learn everything I can, while
at the same time spit and polish the boat.

She is a 38-ft MKIII. I just took the Jib/Genoa down to replace on the
running rigging. Now I want to CLEAN and store the sail for the winter. I
believe it is 125% Genoa. Just not sure what material. It is neil pryde
sail. 

The question is, what is the best way to clean such a large sail. I have
read the solution should be a mild laundry detergent and fabric softener, Is
this correct. 

I thought about putting a tarp in the back of my pickup bed and letting it
soak overnight and then pulling it out by the head and scrubbing with a soft
nylon brush on both sides as I go. I can take a couple of sawhorses and
build a 4X8 work platform to scrub on. Rinsing and flaking it onto another
tarp on the ground. Then hanging it in the garage to dry.

Any thoughts. How do you all do it?

Thanks

Larry

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Re: Stus-List little A hatches on a LF38

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Paul, Patrick and Dan — I found my order for the replacement lenses (from 
2005!), along with one blank lens.  Back in 2005, I paid about $60 each to have 
the lenses fabricated; I can check with the company that did it and see if they 
still have the CNC files, and what it would cost to have some new sets made up. 
 Let me know if you’re interested.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul — I had a bunch of sets made up for LF38 listers several years ago; I 
> may still have a few left.  Let me check and get back to you.
> 
> — Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
>> On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Dreuge via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I need to replace the lens on the little hatches in the galley and head.  I 
>> believe these are Atkins & Hoyle model 550 single frame hatches 
>> (discontinued).  
>> 
>> Does anyone know of a reasonable source for new lenses?   I contacted A 
>> and they want $325 for a single lens.   Or has anyone made their own 
>> replacement lenses?  For the most part they look like 1/2” grey acrylic 
>> 15-1/4” x 8”  with a routered gasket groove on the inside.  Making the 
>> groove would seem tricky.
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Re: Stus-List Sails

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Great Question,
 
I just bought a 1978 34' 3 weeks ago and may have to open a laundry service 
myselfthey all need cleaning and I am considering sending them out to the 
local sail guy.
 
Mike
LI NY
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Douglas via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Douglas 
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2015 12:57 pm
Subject: Stus-List Sails



Happy Holiday Everyone
I purchased my boat a year ago and trying to learn everything I can, while at 
the same time spit and polish the boat.
She is a 38-ft MKIII. I just took the Jib/Genoa down to replace on the running 
rigging. Now I want to CLEAN and store the sail for the winter. I believe it is 
125% Genoa. Just not sure what material. It is neil pryde sail. 
The question is, what is the best way to clean such a large sail. I have read 
the solution should be a mild laundry detergent and fabric softener, Is this 
correct. 
I thought about putting a tarp in the back of my pickup bed and letting it soak 
overnight and then pulling it out by the head and scrubbing with a soft nylon 
brush on both sides as I go. I can take a couple of sawhorses and build a 4X8 
work platform to scrub on. Rinsing and flaking it onto another tarp on the 
ground. Then hanging it in the garage to dry.
Any thoughts. How do you all do it?
Thanks
Larry

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Re: Stus-List Sails

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

I have cleaned Calypso's sails in my driveway using a product made for cleaning 
sunbrella type canvas.  I don't recall the name but it works similar to 
Oxyclean type products.  I bought it at the big canvas shop in Ballard.



After a short soak of the heavy mildew/dirt areas I use a long handled boat 
brush to scrub off the big chunks, rinse, then repeat without a soak.



To get access to large areas of the sail I stretched it between the building, a 
basketball hoop, step ladder, and my truck bumper.  I left it out (done in late 
spring or fall) to mostly dry before taking down to the boat to finish drying.



It is a lot of work but I'm still too cheap to pay $500+ for the service.



Martin

Calypso

1971 C 43

Seattle


From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Douglas via 
CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 9:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Douglas
Subject: Stus-List Sails

Happy Holiday Everyone
I purchased my boat a year ago and trying to learn everything I can, while at 
the same time spit and polish the boat.
She is a 38-ft MKIII. I just took the Jib/Genoa down to replace on the running 
rigging. Now I want to CLEAN and store the sail for the winter. I believe it is 
125% Genoa. Just not sure what material. It is neil pryde sail.
The question is, what is the best way to clean such a large sail. I have read 
the solution should be a mild laundry detergent and fabric softener, Is this 
correct.
I thought about putting a tarp in the back of my pickup bed and letting it soak 
overnight and then pulling it out by the head and scrubbing with a soft nylon 
brush on both sides as I go. I can take a couple of sawhorses and build a 4X8 
work platform to scrub on. Rinsing and flaking it onto another tarp on the 
ground. Then hanging it in the garage to dry.
Any thoughts. How do you all do it?
Thanks
Larry
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Re: Stus-List Sails

[Douglas via CnC-List]

Martin

I Oxyclean and similar products contain dehydrated hydrogen peroxide and I
read where that is bad for some sail. I don't know if that is true or not.
Do you know. I know that would really brighten up the sail.

I thought about using it.

I don't mind the cost, but it is extremely too high just to clean the sail
and repairs are extra. That is close to 1/3 the price for a similar sail.  I
have a friend who has a sewing setup similar to a Para loft (military
parachute shop) and do any stitching I need.

I was going to hang 3 or 4 closet 1" dowel from the ceiling in the garage
and drape it over the rods like Christmas candy ribbon.  That should give
plenty of room to dry them. I could tie them to the bumper and a couple of
fir trees, but I don't the fir drippings would be good for the sails.

I will contact a couple of sail places in the area and see what say. I hear
they all are sent to Bainbridge Island for cleaning.

Larry

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin
DeYoung via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 11:05 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Martin DeYoung
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sails

 

I have cleaned Calypso's sails in my driveway using a product made for
cleaning sunbrella type canvas.  I don't recall the name but it works
similar to Oxyclean type products.  I bought it at the big canvas shop in
Ballard.

 

After a short soak of the heavy mildew/dirt areas I use a long handled boat
brush to scrub off the big chunks, rinse, then repeat without a soak.

 

To get access to large areas of the sail I stretched it between the
building, a basketball hoop, step ladder, and my truck bumper.  I left it
out (done in late spring or fall) to mostly dry before taking down to the
boat to finish drying.

 

It is a lot of work but I'm still too cheap to pay $500+ for the service.

 

Martin

Calypso

1971 C 43

Seattle

  _  

From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Douglas via
CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 9:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Douglas
Subject: Stus-List Sails

Happy Holiday Everyone

I purchased my boat a year ago and trying to learn everything I can, while
at the same time spit and polish the boat.

She is a 38-ft MKIII. I just took the Jib/Genoa down to replace on the
running rigging. Now I want to CLEAN and store the sail for the winter. I
believe it is 125% Genoa. Just not sure what material. It is neil pryde
sail. 

The question is, what is the best way to clean such a large sail. I have
read the solution should be a mild laundry detergent and fabric softener, Is
this correct. 

I thought about putting a tarp in the back of my pickup bed and letting it
soak overnight and then pulling it out by the head and scrubbing with a soft
nylon brush on both sides as I go. I can take a couple of sawhorses and
build a 4X8 work platform to scrub on. Rinsing and flaking it onto another
tarp on the ground. Then hanging it in the garage to dry.

Any thoughts. How do you all do it?

Thanks

Larry

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Re: Stus-List Sails

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

I don't know how the full strength Oxy type cleaning products effect sails but 
the stuff I used was intended to be used on Sunbrella so it my be a milder 
version.  It may have been called or sold by Osso.



A while back there was a sail cleaning discussion here or on Sailing Anarchy 
where a person recommended throwing the sail into a neighbor's swimming pool.  
The chlorine apparently does a good job.  Others posting to that discussion did 
express concern about the chlorine's effect on the sails and stitching.



Re fir droppings: I agree it is worth the effort to keep tree and lawn debris 
off the sail.  Here in the PNW those little bits of organic material are 
incubators for mold and green goo.  I hose off my driveway before cleaning 
Calypso's sails to minimize the exposure and carefully rinsed or brushed off 
any bits that I noticed when folding the sail up.



I keep Calypso at Shilshole.  For the last few years there has been an increase 
in monitoring for "soap" suds running off the boats.  Even if a 
"environmentally safe" cleaning product is being used, my read of the marina's 
rules indicates no soap bubbles are allowed.  Back a few years it was possible 
to clean the sails on board on a calm day.  I would start with the sail hoisted 
and scrub all that I could reach then lower it and repeat until it was all 
scrubbed.  Then to rinse I would reverse the process leaving it hoisted to dry.



Martin

Calypso

1971 C 43

Calypso


From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Douglas via 
CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 12:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Douglas
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sails

Martin
I Oxyclean and similar products contain dehydrated hydrogen peroxide and I read 
where that is bad for some sail. I don’t know if that is true or not. Do you 
know. I know that would really brighten up the sail.
I thought about using it.
I don’t mind the cost, but it is extremely too high just to clean the sail and 
repairs are extra. That is close to 1/3 the price for a similar sail.  I have a 
friend who has a sewing setup similar to a Para loft (military parachute shop) 
and do any stitching I need.
I was going to hang 3 or 4 closet 1” dowel from the ceiling in the garage and 
drape it over the rods like Christmas candy ribbon.  That should give plenty of 
room to dry them. I could tie them to the bumper and a couple of fir trees, but 
I don’t the fir drippings would be good for the sails.
I will contact a couple of sail places in the area and see what say. I hear 
they all are sent to Bainbridge Island for cleaning.
Larry

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
DeYoung via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 11:05 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Martin DeYoung
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sails


I have cleaned Calypso's sails in my driveway using a product made for cleaning 
sunbrella type canvas.  I don't recall the name but it works similar to 
Oxyclean type products.  I bought it at the big canvas shop in Ballard.



After a short soak of the heavy mildew/dirt areas I use a long handled boat 
brush to scrub off the big chunks, rinse, then repeat without a soak.



To get access to large areas of the sail I stretched it between the building, a 
basketball hoop, step ladder, and my truck bumper.  I left it out (done in late 
spring or fall) to mostly dry before taking down to the boat to finish drying.



It is a lot of work but I'm still too cheap to pay $500+ for the service.



Martin

Calypso

1971 C 43

Seattle
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Re: Stus-List Sails

[Bruce Pope via CnC-List]

I have used Oxiclean on my Dacron sails for years and had no ill effects.

Cleans off mold/mildew other misc. stains including blood (don't ask).


Bruce


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Douglas via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 1:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Douglas
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sails


Martin

I Oxyclean and similar products contain dehydrated hydrogen peroxide and I read 
where that is bad for some sail. I don't know if that is true or not. Do you 
know. I know that would really brighten up the sail.

I thought about using it.

I don't mind the cost, but it is extremely too high just to clean the sail and 
repairs are extra. That is close to 1/3 the price for a similar sail.  I have a 
friend who has a sewing setup similar to a Para loft (military parachute shop) 
and do any stitching I need.

I was going to hang 3 or 4 closet 1" dowel from the ceiling in the garage and 
drape it over the rods like Christmas candy ribbon.  That should give plenty of 
room to dry them. I could tie them to the bumper and a couple of fir trees, but 
I don't the fir drippings would be good for the sails.

I will contact a couple of sail places in the area and see what say. I hear 
they all are sent to Bainbridge Island for cleaning.

Larry






From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Douglas via 
CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 9:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Douglas
Subject: Stus-List Sails

Happy Holiday Everyone

I purchased my boat a year ago and trying to learn everything I can, while at 
the same time spit and polish the boat.

She is a 38-ft MKIII. I just took the Jib/Genoa down to replace on the running 
rigging. Now I want to CLEAN and store the sail for the winter. I believe it is 
125% Genoa. Just not sure what material. It is neil pryde sail.

The question is, what is the best way to clean such a large sail. I have read 
the solution should be a mild laundry detergent and fabric softener, Is this 
correct.

I thought about putting a tarp in the back of my pickup bed and letting it soak 
overnight and then pulling it out by the head and scrubbing with a soft nylon 
brush on both sides as I go. I can take a couple of sawhorses and build a 4X8 
work platform to scrub on. Rinsing and flaking it onto another tarp on the 
ground. Then hanging it in the garage to dry.

Any thoughts. How do you all do it?

Thanks

Larry
___

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Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

I bought one of these little battery chargers, and plugged it in. It cought
fire overnight and did some damage. I was woken up by the fire alarm when
there was about 1 ft of flames on a 6 by 6 surface almost licking the
headliner.
Doused it with a blanket.
They sent me a free unit. Still trying to figure out if I should somehow
try to get compansated for the smoke on the headliner and a damaged coffee
table veneer.
Ahmet


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if these are Lithium ion or Lithium Polmer, and if there
> is any advantage of one over the other? I know from my RC Plane that the
> LiPo batteries can catch on fire!
>
> A friend brought one of these around once when my Jetta Diesel battery
> went stone cold, and it didn’t give it even a hiccup. He said he had
> started a Gradeall and a couple pickups with it, and thought it must have
> been DOA when he tried mine, so I was not given the chance to be amazed. I
> am really interested in these, but I would be even more if I had seen one
> bring my car up from the dead.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C 39 Erie, PA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek
> Dziedzic via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2015 9:19 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Marek Dziedzic
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries
>
>
>
> This is not the only one on the market. They are getting quite popular and
> prices vary.
>
> A quick Google search found these articles (reviews):
> http://www.carbatterychargerscentral.com/car-starter-top-7-compact-battery-jump-starters/
> and
> http://www.autodeets.com/top-10-what-is-the-best-lithium-jump-starter-on-the-market/
>
>
>
> mPower is listed there, but it is not #1. I found PowerAll quite available
> around here. I guess it all depends on the local market. Your prices (and
> mileage) will vary.
>
>
>
> Btw. before these little portable batteries showed up on the market, I
> used an older portable car jump starter (with am AGM 12 Ah battery) as the
> only source of power on my previous boat (C 24). The outboard did not
> have the electric starter, so its charging circuits were not even close to
> what one would need (If I remember correctly it showed as 6 V!). The jump
> starter had a car accessory socket, which I used for connecting it to the
> boat (the boat acted like a one big accessory). I used it only for the VHF
> radio and the navigation lights, so there was not much current draw. Every
> so often I would take it home to recharge. It did work.
>
>
>
> Marek
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck S via CnC-List 
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:57 PM
>
> *To:* CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
>
> *Cc:* Chuck S 
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Jumper Batteries
>
>
>
> That's amazingly small.  Think I'll get one.
>
>
>
> C
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Indigo via CnC-List" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc: *"Indigo" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:40:39 PM
> *Subject: *Stus-List Jumper Batteries
>
>
>
> I bought a mPower Jump last winter to replace an old clunky starter pack
> to keep on board Indigo.  Not 100% confident that it would start the diesel
> 3GMF, I charged up the unit at home - used it twice to start my Honda
> Accord, and then without recharging it, used it in May to start the boat
> with no other batteries connected - worked just great on the diesel that
> had not been run since laying up in the winter.
>
>
>
> Specs from their website below!
>
>
>
> The mPower Jump. Always With You, Always Ready, Always Easy to Use.
>
>- Jump starts all 12V cars including 8 cylinder vehicles
>- Fits in a glove box
>- Automatic On Technology
>- Multiple safety protection
>- High capacity battery technology
>- 600A peak current
>
> *Technical Specifications:*
>
>- Input: 12V 1A
>- Output: 12V
>- Jump start Start Current: 300A
>- Peak Current: 600A
>- Size: 7.09 x 2.76 x 1.38
>- Weight: 1.52 lbs.
>- Operating Temperature: -20° C-60° C/-4° F-140° F
>- Battery Capacity: 13000mAh
>- Full Charging Time: Approx 4h
>
>
> ___
>
>
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of 

Re: Stus-List little A hatches on a LF38 (Frederick G Street)

[Daniel Sheer via CnC-List]

Fred, Thanks, and please do check. I'll ask around here as well. If they're 
$100 or more, I'll likely delay another year.
Dan
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Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Hi Danny,
 Yes, I did the hatches in place.  I got the 3/8" acrylic (Plexiglas)
from a local plastic supplier, and cut them out using the pattern router.
Basically, I stuck the old lens onto the new acrylic with folded masking
tape (works like double sided tape but easier to remove), then ran the
pattern router (AKA Formica trimmer) around the old lens which duplicated
the old lens onto the new one.  It's actually quite easy.  I can duplicate
a new lens in about 10 minutes.  If  you have any additional questions,
just fire away.  After doing 5 hatches, I wonder why I didn't do it
sooner.  As boat projects go it is quite easy and makes a beautiful
difference.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> Awesome write up!  Did you do the hatch lenses in place?  I need to do all
> of my hatches.  As soon as I come up with a plan to seal the hatches back
> up,  I'd like to take them all home to do the work.
>
> I may be bothering you fur more info on the lenses, where you got them and
> how you cut them,  etc.  I saw I video where a guy used the butyl tape on
> hatches like mine but,  found it oozed at the hinges.
>
> Anyway,  I'm envious of your upgrade!
>
> All the best
> Danny
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>  Original message 
> From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
> Date: 12/2/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: C List 
> Cc: Gary Russell 
> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>
> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>
>
>
> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>
>
>
> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood
> (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces
> and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>
>
>
> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>
>
>
> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>
>
>
> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>
>
>
> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>
>
>
> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi Gary, 
Awesome write up!  Did you do the hatch lenses in place?  I need to do all of 
my hatches.  As soon as I come up with a plan to seal the hatches back up,  I'd 
like to take them all home to do the work. 
I may be bothering you fur more info on the lenses, where you got them and how 
you cut them,  etc.  I saw I video where a guy used the butyl tape on hatches 
like mine but,  found it oozed at the hinges. 
Anyway,  I'm envious of your upgrade! 
All the bestDanny


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Gary 
Russell via CnC-List  Date: 12/2/2015  8:47 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: C List  Cc: Gary Russell 
 Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued) 
For those who were following my post on bonded windows on
High Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
below.  I have successfully installed two
windows on the starboard side and replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and
can say that the project has been very successful.  I have terminated my 
project at this point as
the temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
of greater than 60 degrees F for application. 
Here are my observations:


 

#1.  Plexus is evil
stuff and should not be allowed on a boat. 
It is too hard and tenacious a bond. 
Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a different expansion coefficient,
fracture of the acrylic is assured. 
Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
underneath.  I tried a sharp blade
between the fiberglass and the acrylic and all I managed to do was rip up the
gel coat.

 

#2.  Before removing
the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood (or other material) 
because
the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces and you will have nothing as a
reference for making the new windows.

 

#3.  I finally was
successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit set to a depth equal to 
the
thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of the Plexus.  I actually used a 
Roto-Zip instead of a
router as it had a smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed 
the router to cut through the
acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky
but effective.   Don’t cut all the way
around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the window.  Otherwise, the 
window will sink under the
weight of the router and you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the 
tabs later.

 

#4.  Once the windows were
out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low density filler to repair any
damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my gel coat damage was limited to the 
area under the windows.  Once the windows
are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy. 

 

#5.   I cut the new
window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit (sometimes called a 
Formica
trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I 
ran the tape at right angles to insure that
they wouldn’t slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a 
very nice job and is quite
easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off
router bit on the outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45
degree chamfer bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795
silicone.

 

#6.  I installed the
3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around where I wanted the window
to go.  This would help me locate the window and provide the masking for the 
Dow Corning 795 silicone
to follow.  I also masked the edge of the
new window for the same reason.

 

#7.  Now cones the
tricky part.  You only get one shot with
the VHB tape, because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering 
two small pieces of acrylic
to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape, and I can assure you,
you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is
amazing stuff.  As a guide, I mounted two
small wooden blocks to the masking take below the window with a small piece of
VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
tape, I was sure I could get it back off. 
Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a 
small wooden block to the masking
tape at one end of the window as well. 
This allowed me to set the window on the two bottom block and then slide
it over to the end block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, 
make several trial runs with
the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once the film is off 
you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it looked
perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of
squirting the Dow Corning stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a
finger.  As soon as the silicon is
smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself a stiff one,
while you admire the fine job you have done.

 

#8.  There was concern
expressed that the VHB tape would be visible through the window, and it was

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Danny,
 I should add I did this on Lewmar Ocean Series hatches.  The process
might be different for different brands.  Cutting the lenses should be the
same, however.

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

> Hi Danny,
>  Yes, I did the hatches in place.  I got the 3/8" acrylic (Plexiglas)
> from a local plastic supplier, and cut them out using the pattern router.
> Basically, I stuck the old lens onto the new acrylic with folded masking
> tape (works like double sided tape but easier to remove), then ran the
> pattern router (AKA Formica trimmer) around the old lens which duplicated
> the old lens onto the new one.  It's actually quite easy.  I can duplicate
> a new lens in about 10 minutes.  If  you have any additional questions,
> just fire away.  After doing 5 hatches, I wonder why I didn't do it
> sooner.  As boat projects go it is quite easy and makes a beautiful
> difference.
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> Awesome write up!  Did you do the hatch lenses in place?  I need to do
>> all of my hatches.  As soon as I come up with a plan to seal the hatches
>> back up,  I'd like to take them all home to do the work.
>>
>> I may be bothering you fur more info on the lenses, where you got them
>> and how you cut them,  etc.  I saw I video where a guy used the butyl tape
>> on hatches like mine but,  found it oozed at the hinges.
>>
>> Anyway,  I'm envious of your upgrade!
>>
>> All the best
>> Danny
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>  Original message 
>> From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>> Date: 12/2/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: C List 
>> Cc: Gary Russell 
>> Subject: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)
>>
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>
>>
>>
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>
>>
>>
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>
>>
>>
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>
>>
>>
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
>> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
>> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
>> masked the edge of the new window for 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Grr!  Still trying to get link to work.

Try this link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

> Oops!  Try this link:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>
>>
>>
>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
>> hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>
>>
>>
>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
>> set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
>> the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>
>>
>>
>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>
>>
>>
>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
>> where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
>> provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
>> masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
>> because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
>> pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
>> and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
>> a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
>> window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
>> tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very
>> well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
>> masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
>> window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
>> before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
>> runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
>> the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
>> looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
>> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
>> silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
>> a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.
>>
>>
>>
>> #8.  There was concern expressed that the VHB tape would be visible
>> through the window, and it was suggested that the window should be painted

Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High Maintenance,
I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated below.  I have
successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and replaced the
acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has been very
successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the temperatures
are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature of greater
than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:



#1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is too
hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.



#2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin plywood
(or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in pieces
and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.



#3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router bit
set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness of
the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.



#4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with low
density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all my
gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.



#5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router bit
(sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in half
lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or template).  I
ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t slide in either
direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice job and is quite
easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the outside edge of the
new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer bit on the inside
edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.



#6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked around
where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the window and
provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.  I also
masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.



#7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB tape,
because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two small
pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB tape,
and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing stuff.  As
a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take below the
window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the masking
tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t stick very
well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block to the
masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to set the
window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end block
before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several trial
runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.  Once
the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and it
looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a finger.  As soon as the
silicon is smoothed out, you can remove the masking tape and pour yourself
a stiff one, while you admire the fine job you have done.



#8.  There was concern expressed that the VHB tape would be visible through
the window, and it was suggested that the window should be painted with
Krylon Fusion Black.  Actually, the VHB tape is the same color as the
Plexus which is not visible, so the VHB won’t be visible either.  No paint
is necessary.  I used the darker shade of grey Plexiglas and can say that
it look spectacular.  The darker shade really “pops” and the contrast is
particularly attractive (in my humble opinion).  The darker color makes it
difficult to see into the boat, but has a minimal effect when looking out.
The VHB is not visible at all.



#9.  There was also concern expressed concerning whether the curvature of
the coach roof would cause a flexing force to peel the VHB tape.  I can say
that the radius of curvature is very large (>20 feet) and the forces are
thus very small.  3/8” acrylic over those lengths 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

I'm getting close.  Try this:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

> Grr!  Still trying to get link to work.
>
> Try this link:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:
>
>> Oops!  Try this link:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is
>>> too hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router
>>> bit set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness
>>> of the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked
>>> around where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the
>>> window and provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.
>>> I also masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB
>>> tape, because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two
>>> small pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB
>>> tape, and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing
>>> stuff.  As a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take
>>> below the window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the
>>> masking tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t
>>> stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block
>>> to the masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to
>>> set the window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end
>>> block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several
>>> trial runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.
>>> Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and
>>> it looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
>>> stuff into the gap and smoothing it out with a 

Re: Stus-List Bonded Windows (continued)

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Nice job and great description!

Joel

On Wednesday, December 2, 2015, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Grr!  Still trying to get link to work.
>
> Try this link:
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Gary Russell  > wrote:
>
>> Oops!  Try this link:
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmemxYOGlVcHNUNVk=sharing
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> For those who were following my post on bonded windows on High
>>> Maintenance, I have an update and many thoughts on the project enumerated
>>> below.  I have successfully installed two windows on the starboard side and
>>> replaced the acrylic on all the hatches and can say that the project has
>>> been very successful.  I have terminated my project at this point as the
>>> temperatures are now too low for the VHB tape which requires a temperature
>>> of greater than 60 degrees F for application.  Here are my observations:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #1.  Plexus is evil stuff and should not be allowed on a boat.  It is
>>> too hard and tenacious a bond.  Because fiberglass and acrylic have such a
>>> different expansion coefficient, fracture of the acrylic is assured.
>>> Removing the stuff is impossible without destroying the gel coat
>>> underneath.  I tried a sharp blade between the fiberglass and the acrylic
>>> and all I managed to do was rip up the gel coat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #2.  Before removing the windows, make a template out of some thin
>>> plywood (or other material) because the window will (no doubt) come out in
>>> pieces and you will have nothing as a reference for making the new windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #3.  I finally was successful removing the acrylic with a 5/8” router
>>> bit set to a depth equal to the thickness of the acrylic plus the thickness
>>> of the Plexus.  I actually used a Roto-Zip instead of a router as it had a
>>> smaller footprint and was easier to handle.  I free-handed the router to
>>> cut through the acrylic and into the Plexus.  It’s risky but effective.
>>> Don’t cut all the way around the perimeter, but leave tabs to support the
>>> window.  Otherwise, the window will sink under the weight of the router and
>>> you will cut into the gel coat.  You can break out the tabs later.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #4.  Once the windows were out, I used West System epoxy thickened with
>>> low density filler to repair any damage to the gel coat.  Fortunately, all
>>> my gel coat damage was limited to the area under the windows.  Once the
>>> windows are out and the damage is repaired, the rest is fun and easy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #5.   I cut the new window out of 3/8” Plexiglas using a pattern router
>>> bit (sometimes called a Formica trimmer).  I used masking tape folded in
>>> half lengthwise to stick the new Plexiglas to the old window (or
>>> template).  I ran the tape at right angles to insure that they wouldn’t
>>> slide in either direction with respect to each other.  It does a very nice
>>> job and is quite easy.  I then used a 1/8” round off router bit on the
>>> outside edge of the new window for cosmetic reasons and a 45 degree chamfer
>>> bit on the inside edge to make room for the Dow Corning 795 silicone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #6.  I installed the 3M VHB 4991 tape on the coach roof and masked
>>> around where I wanted the window to go.  This would help me locate the
>>> window and provide the masking for the Dow Corning 795 silicone to follow.
>>> I also masked the edge of the new window for the same reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #7.  Now cones the tricky part.  You only get one shot with the VHB
>>> tape, because once it is down, it is not coming up.  I tried adhering two
>>> small pieces of acrylic to each other with about two square inches of VHB
>>> tape, and I can assure you, you won’t pull them apart.  VHB is amazing
>>> stuff.  As a guide, I mounted two small wooden blocks to the masking take
>>> below the window with a small piece of VHB tape.  By attaching it to the
>>> masking tape, I was sure I could get it back off.  Actually, VHB doesn’t
>>> stick very well to masking tape anyway.  I also stuck a small wooden block
>>> to the masking tape at one end of the window as well.  This allowed me to
>>> set the window on the two bottom block and then slide it over to the end
>>> block before pushing the window into place.  By all means, make several
>>> trial runs with the film still on the VHB tape before removing the film.
>>> Once the film is off you are committed.  I pushed the window in place and
>>> it looked perfect.  Then it is simply a matter of squirting the Dow Corning
>>> stuff into