Re: Stus-List Wednesday Night racing

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

We race every Wed. Night for over 20 years and counting.last 12 yrs on C 
38 MKII
Ron C.
- Original Message -
From: Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jean-Francois J Rivard 
Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 02:22:14 - (UTC)
Subject: Stus-List Wednesday Night racing

I'm curious: How many of you guys race every Wednesday night? 


Antoine said : "I do have the shoal draft version (4? 3") and race it 
every Wednesday in our club"

I do too. 

We look forward to it all week :-)  It's a great break in the middle of 
the week and a good place to meet like minded sailors.. 


-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA






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Re: Stus-List Wednesday Night racing

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

I race wednesdays! But on a J24..does that count??

When i was racing vice-commodore i tried to change it to Mondays to help my 
travel schedule, but no one would go for it.

Mike
Atacama 33 mkii. 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
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Re: Stus-List Furler

[G Collins via CnC-List]

Fasten jib halyard(s) and Spin halyard at the bow, and tension (reserve 
one halyard for hoisting duties, use the main halyard for getting up the 
mast).  Go up the mast and drop the forestay. Assemble new furler to 
forestay.  Haul new forestay / furler up and fasten at masthead, then 
fasten at bow.

I did essentially this, but with a new forestay.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2016-07-05 11:58 PM, Paul Hood via CnC-List wrote:
> OKlearning as I go and this time I realized this should have been done
> while the mast was stepped...during the off season.  I removed foils and am
> trying to install Seafurl 5 (aka Hood) H253.
> I have a Navtec 0.25" rod stay.  It appears none of the components of the
> seafurl will fit over the coldheaded turnbuckle or the eye at top of stay.
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw4NOPYfe9OWRHd3WnpyS0M3cWs=shar
> ing
>
> I'm taking it in tomorrow to hopefully find a solution.  By phone it was
> suggested I bring in mast with it!!  Not going to happen.  They wanted to
> assemble the entire furling system on the stay and keep stay stiff when
> shipping, which is why the mast was to go with it.
> Otherwise, the option is to drill out the peen, screw off eye, replace peen
> with screw and send me on my way.  I will need to load stay with furler from
> top down then mount eye at top of stay.  That means I either step the mast
> or work on boat from top down.
>
> None of this sound really good to me.  Anyone experience something that
> works best?
>
> Paul
> 81 C
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> .
>


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Stus-List Wednesday Night racing

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

I'm curious: How many of you guys race every Wednesday night? 


Antoine said : "I do have the shoal draft version (4? 3") and race it 
every Wednesday in our club"

I do too. 

We look forward to it all week :-)  It's a great break in the middle of 
the week and a good place to meet like minded sailors.. 


-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA




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Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

PHRF-LO lists the 30-1 draft at 5', and the shoal draft version at 4' 2".

Though the manufacture's displacement specs are usually optimistic,
the shoal draft version is claimed to be 500 or 600 pounds heavier.
I would guess that the extra weight, possibly extra waterline, is not as
much of a handicap downwind as upwind.

In light air there is not much leeway, the deep keel should be better
than a shoal draft keel but there may not be much difference.

In moderate air the deep keel is suppose to generate more lift with
less leeway, but also has more drag.

> So I don't point as high, but I do make good time to the weather mark.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:23:33 + (UTC) 
From: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft 
Message-ID: 
     <1888717722.1548504.1468167813406.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
My literature states that my shoal draft 1973 version is also about 4'6". ?A 
friend had the std version, which was raced in the old SORC and his was 
5'3".Don't know if there were changes made to the keels during the run, but 
those were numbers I'm aware of.I find that in 10kts of wind, I'm doing by best 
upwind by tacking through 90deg. ?So I don't point as high, but I do make good 
time to the?weather mark.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL 
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Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Graham Young via CnC-List]

It appears that there are differing reports from the literature.  
Sailboatdata.com has the draft at 4.2' for shoal and 5.00' for standard.  In 
any case, it appears that the shoal is somewhere between 4'3" and 4'6" and that 
theory holds a bit in practice of the owners, but the shoal still points well 
enough (although not as good as standard as would be expected) and sails to its 
handicap.  

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 12:36 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

 My literature states that my shoal draft 1973 version is also about 4'6".  A 
friend had the std version, which was raced in the old SORC and his was 
5'3".Don't know if there were changes made to the keels during the run, but 
those were numbers I'm aware of.I find that in 10kts of wind, I'm doing by best 
upwind by tacking through 90deg.  So I don't point as high, but I do make good 
time to the weather mark.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL


  From: Joseph Bognar via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Joseph Bognar 
 Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 9:23 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft
  
Graham : the shoal draft draws 4'6" I find it still points well 

Sent from Joe Bognar

   
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Re: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Maybe you have one set to true wind and the other set for apparent wind... :)

Damn. I like to help 

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 04:42 PM 10/07/2016, you wrote:

That is exactly what the problem was Rick, thanks for thinking of that.
Now I just need to get my anemometer angles corrected.  . .


Bill Coleman
C 39


 Original message 
From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 

Subject: Re: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration

Is it possible that your GPS is set to show True heading, while the fluxgate
is showing Magnetic? Ten degrees west variation is probably about right,
depending on where you are in PA.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC
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Re: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

That is exactly what the problem was Rick, thanks for thinking of that. Now I 
just need to get my anemometer angles corrected.  . .

Bill ColemanC 39

 Original message 
From: Rick Brass via CnC-List  
Date: 7/9/16  8:55 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Brass  
Subject: Re: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration 

Is it possible that your GPS is set to show True heading, while the fluxgate
is showing Magnetic? Ten degrees west variation is probably about right,
depending on where you are in PA.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2016 3:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration

I have just done my turns to calibrate my fluxgate, and when I correct it
down 10 degrees to agree with my GPS heading shown on my i70 Display, that
heading drops 10 degrees. So between the two of them, I am always 10 degrees
off. I think I am now around 40 degrees low, by the time I figured what was
going on. Has this happened to anyone else, and if so does anyone know what
is going on?  I assumed the heading shown on the i70 was coming from my e95
plotters GPS heading. If it is actually coming from my fluxgate, why would
the two be 10 degrees off?

Puzzled in PA,

Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA




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Re: Stus-List My Experience and Mistakes With Interlux Brightside/Interlux Prekote

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Ryan,

 

Your paint job looks great! I just saw this post because I am about to attempt 
the same thing on my 33 foot three quarter tonner and did a search on the topic 
in this forum. Thank you for the information.

 

I have researched the roll and tip method and also found some pretty good 
instructional videos. That will be the method I use. One issue I had is my 
waterline. It is correct in it’s placement on the boat but the last painter did 
a terrible job with it – both the boot top and the line between topsides and 
bottom paint are wavy and need to be removed and re-done. I recently figured 
out how to deal with that thanks to a great video by a shipwright so I am about 
ready to tackle this. I just need to measure and record the position of the 
existing water line on the bow and stern points and with that will be able lay 
down a new water line.

 

I will also be painting my deck and toe rails. 

 

Have you launched your boat yet. I know it is early but how does the paint seem 
to be holding up 

 

Burt

 

1971 33-3 quarter tonner

On the hard in Walpole, MA USA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Doyle 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 1:53 PM
To: davidjaco...@comcast.net
Cc: Ryan Doyle; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List My Experience and Mistakes With Interlux 
Brightside/Interlux Prekote

 

Hey Dave,  

 

Thanks!  I'm ball parking, but I'd say this is approximately how long each 
portion took. 

 

1.5 hrs to tape off the boat

4 hrs to sand initially with 150 grit

2 hrs to prime 

(New day)

2 hrs to sand primer 

1.5 hrs to prime 

(New day)

2 hrs to sand primer again

2 hrs for first finish coat

(New day)

.75 hrs to sand

1.5 hrs for second finish coat

(New day)

.75 hrs to sand

1.5 hrs for final finish coat

(New day)

3 hrs total to tape off and do a couple coats of paint on the stripes and 
stars.  You could also do these with a stencil (but I just used bits and pieces 
of tape)





If my math is right, that's a total of about 22.5 hrs.  This was spread out 
over a couple of weeks.

 

 


On Jun 6, 2016, at 4:27 AM, davidjaco...@comcast.net wrote:

Ryan.
Your results look great. How many hours would you guess you put into the paint 
job?
Dave J
Saltaire
CC35 MK3
Bristol, RI

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Re: Stus-List C 25 ice box

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Mark,

Go here: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/refrigeration

The first few pics show how much insulation and space there is around an
early 70's 35 ice box.  Yours may be similar.

Dennis C.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Mark McMenamy via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks Rick.  I wonder how much room in between the ice chest and the
> cabinet that there is to actually insulate.  I was thinking of giving up
> some interior space and adding 1" of foam with some type of protective
> barrier to the inside of the cooler.
>
>
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Re: Stus-List C 25 ice box

[Mark McMenamy via CnC-List]

Thanks Rick.  I wonder how much room in between the ice chest and the cabinet 
that there is to actually insulate.  I was thinking of giving up some interior 
space and adding 1" of foam with some type of protective barrier to the inside 
of the cooler. 

Mark McMenamy
C 25 "Icicle"
Fort Pierce FL

> On Jul 10, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Rick Taillieu via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> The 25's icebox isn't insulated very well if at all.
> Unfortunately you pretty much have to disassemble the cabinetry around the
> icebox to properly add any insulation.
> You might be able to take out the screws around the top of the liner and
> slide it out the top to gain access to the inside, if not then the counter
> top has to come off.
> I don't have the stock icebox in my boat, I had to rebuild it when I bought
> the boat.
> A previous owner had removed it to get more foot room in the slide-out
> berth.
> 
> 
> Rick Taillieu
> Nemesis
> '75 C 25  #371
> Shearwater Yacht Club
> Halifax, NS.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> McMenamy via CnC-List
> Sent: July-10-16 10:44
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Mark McMenamy
> Subject: Stus-List C 25 ice box
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've noticed that my ice chest doesn't seem to keep ice very long.  Does
> anyone know how these are insulated?  Also, any ideas to increase the
> insulation are much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Mark McMenamy
> C 25 "Icicle"
> Fort Pierce FL
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions
> are greatly appreciated!
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> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12592 - Release Date: 07/10/16
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

My literature states that my shoal draft 1973 version is also about 4'6".  A 
friend had the std version, which was raced in the old SORC and his was 
5'3".Don't know if there were changes made to the keels during the run, but 
those were numbers I'm aware of.I find that in 10kts of wind, I'm doing by best 
upwind by tacking through 90deg.  So I don't point as high, but I do make good 
time to the weather mark.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL


  From: Joseph Bognar via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Joseph Bognar 
 Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 9:23 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft
   
Graham : the shoal draft draws 4'6" I find it still points well 

Sent from Joe Bognar

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Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

My ACR is so close to the battery connections I am not fusing it. The wire
runs are literally about 4 inches.

Joe Della Barba
j...@dellabarba.com

Coquina
C 35 MK I
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Syerdave--- via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 8:17 AM
To: C Stus List 
Cc: syerd...@gmail.com
Subject: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

Hello all,
Wondering about the practical vs the theoretical here.  
Am upgrading the DC system, adding a Group 24 dedicated start battery, and
connecting the two group 31 in parallel to double the capacity of what will
become the dedicated house bank.   Am adding a blue sea switch and ACR.
FYI - an ACR is a device that upon starting the engine essentially 'chooses'
to top up the start battery fully before allowing the the house bank to be
charged.   
Anyway, the manual states that the acr should be connected as close as
possible to the battery (to prevent voltage drop from compromising its
function to any degree) and both of its leads fused based on the wire gauge.
All makes sense, especially when the batteries are located At a distance
from the switch or ACR.   however
The simplest installation is directly adjacent to the switch, not the
battery.  The leads to the ACR would be very short and well protected - less
than a foot.  (The battery cables themselves are not fused!)  In the 33-2,
the distance to battery is still very short - less than eight feet of cable
for sure.

In this situation, I can only see an infinitesimal difference in voltage
drop by locating the ACR a few feet closer to the battery, really, no
meaningful difference.  With a lead length measured in inches the positive
wires to the ACR probably do not need to be fused.   (the ground wire IS
fused, protecting against failure of the device itself.).  

Has anyone got any experience with this that would tell me otherwise?
Thanks!

Dave Syer   33-2
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Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Joseph Bognar via CnC-List]

Graham : the shoal draft draws 4'6" I find it still points well 

Sent from Joe Bognar


> On Jul 10, 2016, at 8:59 AM, Graham Young via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good morning fellow C owners,
> 
> I'm looking for input from those who have sailed the shoal draft version of 
> the C 30 (draft of 4'2") in comparison to the standard draft version (5').  
> Theoretically, the standard version should point a little better, but in 
> practice is there much difference in performance and sailing characteristics?
> 
> In terms of base handicap on Lake Erie, there is a 6 second difference (183 
> for shoal draft versus 177 for standard).
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know whether C ever made a deeper draft version of the 
> C 30?  There was a 1976 C 30 for sail in the boatyard next to my boat 
> this spring and the keep was deep and definitely not the 5' swept back keel 
> characteristic of the 30.  Sitting next to my 32 on the cradle, it appeared 
> every bit as tall and I kept looking at it in puzzlement.  The ad for this 
> boat on yachtworld said it had a draft of 5'10".
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Graham
>  
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Antoine Rose via CnC-List]

Hi Graham,
I do have the shoal draft version (4’ 3") and race it every Wednesday in our 
club where there is another C 30 with std draft. Yes, he does point higher 
than me for two reasons : deeper keel and his boat is more recent with the 
shorter mainsail and a track for the genoa block sheets. My sheet blocks are 
hooked on the rail, meaning the sail is not trimmed inside as close as his, 
decreasing the ability to point. That said, despite the fact he has a 150% 
genoa while mine is a 135%, I’m always faster than he is on downward legs, 
thanks to shallower draft (less wetted surface) and thanks to the larger 
mainsail.

Antoine (C 30 Cousin)


> Le 10 juil. 2016 à 08:59, Graham Young via CnC-List  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Good morning fellow C owners,
> 
> I'm looking for input from those who have sailed the shoal draft version of 
> the C 30 (draft of 4'2") in comparison to the standard draft version (5').  
> Theoretically, the standard version should point a little better, but in 
> practice is there much difference in performance and sailing characteristics?
> 
> In terms of base handicap on Lake Erie, there is a 6 second difference (183 
> for shoal draft versus 177 for standard).
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know whether C ever made a deeper draft version of the 
> C 30?  There was a 1976 C 30 for sail in the boatyard next to my boat 
> this spring and the keep was deep and definitely not the 5' swept back keel 
> characteristic of the 30.  Sitting next to my 32 on the cradle, it appeared 
> every bit as tall and I kept looking at it in puzzlement.  The ad for this 
> boat on yachtworld said it had a draft of 5'10".
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Graham
>  
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List C 25 ice box

[Rick Taillieu via CnC-List]

Mark,

The 25's icebox isn't insulated very well if at all.
Unfortunately you pretty much have to disassemble the cabinetry around the
icebox to properly add any insulation.
You might be able to take out the screws around the top of the liner and
slide it out the top to gain access to the inside, if not then the counter
top has to come off.
I don't have the stock icebox in my boat, I had to rebuild it when I bought
the boat.
A previous owner had removed it to get more foot room in the slide-out
berth.


Rick Taillieu
Nemesis
'75 C 25  #371
Shearwater Yacht Club
Halifax, NS.



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark
McMenamy via CnC-List
Sent: July-10-16 10:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Mark McMenamy
Subject: Stus-List C 25 ice box

Hello everyone,

I've noticed that my ice chest doesn't seem to keep ice very long.  Does
anyone know how these are insulated?  Also, any ideas to increase the
insulation are much appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

Mark McMenamy
C 25 "Icicle"
Fort Pierce FL
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12592 - Release Date: 07/10/16


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Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[Dave via CnC-List]

Lol... Agreed Steve but in this case i tend to think of it as the lawyer state 
rather than nanny state.  (WAs so boggled by this sort of thing at one point 
that I put a label on my 6" bench vise that says 'caution - do not eat'. ). 
I don't think fusing the main house bank cable is such a terrible idea, ( over 
the years I have been occasionally startled by big sparks when wrenching, 
troubleshooting or using a steel fish tape - and not always carelessly) to your 
point though, marinas are not exactly plagued by unfused boats spontaneously 
combusting...

Dave




Message: 8
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 09:30:17 -0400
From: "S Thomas" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR
Message-ID: <5DFB0BC1ADCB424C8002E769FBC91562@mordor>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The nanny state invading our sailboats. 
"...connections of less than 7 inches..."  Really?

I don't see the need for fuses in the cables between the batteries and the 
selector switch. There is a difference between careful and paranoid. 

The U.S. coast guard inspected a friend of mine's sailboat, and among other 
things, told him that he was required to have nylon lock nuts on his lead 
battery post connectors. 

Good grief. 

Steve Thomas
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Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Steve,

I won't defend the standards (and they are not state regulated, but industry 
adopted ), but they do need some understanding.  The requirement is that all 
wire in a circuit needs appropriate overcurrent protection, not that every wire 
needs its own fuse.  

Following that, if all the wire in your battery to switch panel or battery to 
starter circuit is the same size then why not put your fuse at the battery 
rather than after the switch?  Its still only one fuse, but it's protecting 
more.  My batteries (it's a large bank) would deliver 20,000 amps in a short 
circuit condition, which is pretty much enough to weld with, so I have a 
class-T fuse as close as I can put it to the battery.

The US Coast Guard may have been proposing hex nuts rather than wing nuts, 
which have a tendency to loosen easily, but if it was the CG Auxiliary, all 
bets are off...

> On Jul 10, 2016, at 9:30 AM, S Thomas via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> The nanny state invading our sailboats. 
> "...connections of less than 7 inches..."  Really?
>  
> I don't see the need for fuses in the cables between the batteries and the 
> selector switch. There is a difference between careful and paranoid.
> 
> The U.S. coast guard inspected a friend of mine's sailboat, and among other 
> things, told him that he was required to have nylon lock nuts on his lead 
> battery post connectors. 
> 
> Good grief. 
> 
> Steve Thomas
> C MKIII
> Port Stanley, ON
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Goodyear via CnC-List" 
> To: 
> Cc: "Tim Goodyear" ; "syerd...@gmail.com" 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 08:42
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR
> 
> > Hi Dave,
>  
> 
> > 
> > Under ABYC standards, connections of less than 7" do not need to be fuses, 
> > neither do engine cranking circuits, but if you don't fuse other circuits 
> > you are asking for insurance / survey trouble if things go wrong...  Blue 
> > Sea have a great on-battery fuse (MRBF) that you could mount directly on 
> > the studs of the ACR without a lot of effort (and now required for your 
> > house bank).  You are protecting the wires, not the devices with these 
> > fuses, preventing short circuit current from causing them to ignite, so if 
> > the ACR wires are a different size than the battery cables you need 
> > different fuses.
> > 
> > https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A
> > 
> > I hope that helps!
> > 
> > Tim
> > 
> > Tim Goodyear
> > Ex-35-3
> > 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[Dave via CnC-List]

Thanks For the thorough reply Tim, valuable and extensive detail there, and 
some food for thought.  I do understand the operation of the acr and the 
goals/theory of overcurrent protection, as well as voltage drop/cable ampacity 
more than my already-too-long post might infer. 
 Thanks for the -qualified - validation of the approach.Did not know the 
abyc 7" rule, nor that fusing the house bank is now 'code'.  (Amazing that it 
wasn't...).   I will review the abyc standards on this whole area, and also 
measure the battery to destination drop in the existing system.  This will tell 
me the margin in which my question exists.   Regardless, Am going to rethink, 
incorporate, and document standards-compliant circuit protection as well, to 
your point, this only makes sense.   Since this means recabling the house bank 
I will oversize the cable anyway, assuring that he extra few feet of cable are 
immaterial, drop-wise.A slippery slope as usual but a good one.
great stuff, very helpful,  and thanks again for taking the time.

Dave.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Your ACR doesn't function as you describe; it is just a relay, with no 
> charging intelligence built in except that it will only close when it senses 
> charging (a voltage above a certain level for a certain time) on one or both 
> battery banks.  That shouldn't matter too much if both banks are the same 
> battery chemistry and the same age, but they will both "see" the same voltage 
> (minus wiring voltage drops) when the relay is closed, so make sure it's 
> appropriate.
> 
> You are heading in the right direction on voltage drops and overcurrent 
> protection (fuses), but voltage is crucial to battery charging and you don't 
> want to lose your boat to an electrical fire for the sake of a couple of 
> fuses...
> 
> Voltage drop will depend on current (how big is your alternator / battery 
> charger), wire length (total of positive and negative lengths) and wire size 
> - if it's going to be longer than recommended, increase the size of the wire. 
>  Blue Sea Systems probably have a calculator on their site or you can search 
> for ABYC voltage drop tables.
> 
> Under ABYC standards, connections of less than 7" do not need to be fuses, 
> neither do engine cranking circuits, but if you don't fuse other circuits you 
> are asking for insurance / survey trouble if things go wrong...  Blue Sea 
> have a great on-battery fuse (MRBF) that you could mount directly on the 
> studs of the ACR without a lot of effort (and now required for your house 
> bank).  You are protecting the wires, not the devices with these fuses, 
> preventing short circuit current from causing them to ignite, so if the ACR 
> wires are a different size than the battery cables you need different fuses.
> 
> https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A
> 
> I hope that helps!
> 
> Tim
> 
> Tim Goodyear
> Ex-35-3
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Syerdave--- via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> Wondering about the practical vs the theoretical here.  
>> Am upgrading the DC system, adding a Group 24 dedicated start battery, and 
>> connecting the two group 31 in parallel to double the capacity of what will 
>> become the dedicated house bank.   Am adding a blue sea switch and ACR.
>> FYI - an ACR is a device that upon starting the engine essentially 'chooses' 
>> to top up the start battery fully before allowing the the house bank to be 
>> charged.   
>> Anyway, the manual states that the acr should be connected as close as 
>> possible to the battery (to prevent voltage drop from compromising its 
>> function to any degree) and both of its leads fused based on the wire gauge. 
>>   All makes sense, especially when the batteries are located At a distance 
>> from the switch or ACR.   however
>> The simplest installation is directly adjacent to the switch, not the 
>> battery.  The leads to the ACR would be very short and well protected - less 
>> than a foot.  (The battery cables themselves are not fused!)  In the 33-2, 
>> the distance to battery is still very short - less than eight feet of cable 
>> for sure.
>> 
>> In this situation, I can only see an infinitesimal difference in voltage 
>> drop by locating the ACR a few feet closer to the battery, really, no 
>> meaningful difference.  With a lead length measured in inches the positive 
>> wires to the ACR probably do not need to be fused.   (the ground wire IS 
>> fused, protecting against failure of the device itself.).  
>> 
>> Has anyone got any experience with this that would tell me otherwise?   
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Dave Syer   33-2
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly 

Stus-List C 25 ice box

[Mark McMenamy via CnC-List]

Hello everyone,

I've noticed that my ice chest doesn't seem to keep ice very long.  Does anyone 
know how these are insulated?  Also, any ideas to increase the insulation are 
much appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

Mark McMenamy
C 25 "Icicle"
Fort Pierce FL
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

The nanny state invading our sailboats. 
"...connections of less than 7 inches..."  Really?

I don't see the need for fuses in the cables between the batteries and the 
selector switch. There is a difference between careful and paranoid. 

The U.S. coast guard inspected a friend of mine's sailboat, and among other 
things, told him that he was required to have nylon lock nuts on his lead 
battery post connectors. 

Good grief. 

Steve Thomas
C MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Goodyear via CnC-List" 
To: 
Cc: "Tim Goodyear" ; "syerd...@gmail.com" 

Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 08:42
Subject: Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR


> Hi Dave,


> 
> Under ABYC standards, connections of less than 7" do not need to be fuses, 
> neither do engine cranking circuits, but if you don't fuse other circuits you 
> are asking for insurance / survey trouble if things go wrong...  Blue Sea 
> have a great on-battery fuse (MRBF) that you could mount directly on the 
> studs of the ACR without a lot of effort (and now required for your house 
> bank).  You are protecting the wires, not the devices with these fuses, 
> preventing short circuit current from causing them to ignite, so if the ACR 
> wires are a different size than the battery cables you need different fuses.
> 
> https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A
> 
> I hope that helps!
> 
> Tim
> 
> Tim Goodyear
> Ex-35-3
> 
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Graham Young via CnC-List]

Good morning fellow C owners,
I'm looking for input from those who have sailed the shoal draft version of the 
C 30 (draft of 4'2") in comparison to the standard draft version (5').  
Theoretically, the standard version should point a little better, but in 
practice is there much difference in performance and sailing characteristics?
In terms of base handicap on Lake Erie, there is a 6 second difference (183 for 
shoal draft versus 177 for standard).

Also, does anyone know whether C ever made a deeper draft version of the C 
30?  There was a 1976 C 30 for sail in the boatyard next to my boat this 
spring and the keep was deep and definitely not the 5' swept back keel 
characteristic of the 30.  Sitting next to my 32 on the cradle, it appeared 
every bit as tall and I kept looking at it in puzzlement.  The ad for this boat 
on yachtworld said it had a draft of 5'10".
Thanks,
Graham 
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Hi Dave,

Your ACR doesn't function as you describe; it is just a relay, with no charging 
intelligence built in except that it will only close when it senses charging (a 
voltage above a certain level for a certain time) on one or both battery banks. 
 That shouldn't matter too much if both banks are the same battery chemistry 
and the same age, but they will both "see" the same voltage (minus wiring 
voltage drops) when the relay is closed, so make sure it's appropriate.

You are heading in the right direction on voltage drops and overcurrent 
protection (fuses), but voltage is crucial to battery charging and you don't 
want to lose your boat to an electrical fire for the sake of a couple of 
fuses...

Voltage drop will depend on current (how big is your alternator / battery 
charger), wire length (total of positive and negative lengths) and wire size - 
if it's going to be longer than recommended, increase the size of the wire.  
Blue Sea Systems probably have a calculator on their site or you can search for 
ABYC voltage drop tables.

Under ABYC standards, connections of less than 7" do not need to be fuses, 
neither do engine cranking circuits, but if you don't fuse other circuits you 
are asking for insurance / survey trouble if things go wrong...  Blue Sea have 
a great on-battery fuse (MRBF) that you could mount directly on the studs of 
the ACR without a lot of effort (and now required for your house bank).  You 
are protecting the wires, not the devices with these fuses, preventing short 
circuit current from causing them to ignite, so if the ACR wires are a 
different size than the battery cables you need different fuses.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A

I hope that helps!

Tim

Tim Goodyear
Ex-35-3

> On Jul 10, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Syerdave--- via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> Wondering about the practical vs the theoretical here.  
> Am upgrading the DC system, adding a Group 24 dedicated start battery, and 
> connecting the two group 31 in parallel to double the capacity of what will 
> become the dedicated house bank.   Am adding a blue sea switch and ACR.
> FYI - an ACR is a device that upon starting the engine essentially 'chooses' 
> to top up the start battery fully before allowing the the house bank to be 
> charged.   
> Anyway, the manual states that the acr should be connected as close as 
> possible to the battery (to prevent voltage drop from compromising its 
> function to any degree) and both of its leads fused based on the wire gauge.  
>  All makes sense, especially when the batteries are located At a distance 
> from the switch or ACR.   however
> The simplest installation is directly adjacent to the switch, not the 
> battery.  The leads to the ACR would be very short and well protected - less 
> than a foot.  (The battery cables themselves are not fused!)  In the 33-2, 
> the distance to battery is still very short - less than eight feet of cable 
> for sure.
> 
> In this situation, I can only see an infinitesimal difference in voltage drop 
> by locating the ACR a few feet closer to the battery, really, no meaningful 
> difference.  With a lead length measured in inches the positive wires to the 
> ACR probably do not need to be fused.   (the ground wire IS fused, protecting 
> against failure of the device itself.).  
> 
> Has anyone got any experience with this that would tell me otherwise?   
> Thanks!
> 
> Dave Syer   33-2
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Practical installation of ACR/VSR

[Syerdave--- via CnC-List]

Hello all,
Wondering about the practical vs the theoretical here.  
Am upgrading the DC system, adding a Group 24 dedicated start battery, and 
connecting the two group 31 in parallel to double the capacity of what will 
become the dedicated house bank.   Am adding a blue sea switch and ACR.
FYI - an ACR is a device that upon starting the engine essentially 'chooses' to 
top up the start battery fully before allowing the the house bank to be 
charged.   
Anyway, the manual states that the acr should be connected as close as possible 
to the battery (to prevent voltage drop from compromising its function to any 
degree) and both of its leads fused based on the wire gauge.   All makes sense, 
especially when the batteries are located At a distance from the switch or ACR. 
  however
The simplest installation is directly adjacent to the switch, not the battery.  
The leads to the ACR would be very short and well protected - less than a foot. 
 (The battery cables themselves are not fused!)  In the 33-2, the distance to 
battery is still very short - less than eight feet of cable for sure.

In this situation, I can only see an infinitesimal difference in voltage drop 
by locating the ACR a few feet closer to the battery, really, no meaningful 
difference.  With a lead length measured in inches the positive wires to the 
ACR probably do not need to be fused.   (the ground wire IS fused, protecting 
against failure of the device itself.).  

Has anyone got any experience with this that would tell me otherwise?   Thanks!

Dave Syer   33-2
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Well that's a great idea that I haven't thought of. Usually I set them to 
magnetic, but I can't be sure.  I'll check it out today and report back.Thanks 
Rick.

Bill ColemanC 39 Erie PA

 Original message 
From: Rick Brass via CnC-List  
Date: 7/9/16  8:55 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Brass  
Subject: Re: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration 

Is it possible that your GPS is set to show True heading, while the fluxgate
is showing Magnetic? Ten degrees west variation is probably about right,
depending on where you are in PA.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2016 3:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Stus-List ST4000+ WheelPilot heading Calibration

I have just done my turns to calibrate my fluxgate, and when I correct it
down 10 degrees to agree with my GPS heading shown on my i70 Display, that
heading drops 10 degrees. So between the two of them, I am always 10 degrees
off. I think I am now around 40 degrees low, by the time I figured what was
going on. Has this happened to anyone else, and if so does anyone know what
is going on?  I assumed the heading shown on the i70 was coming from my e95
plotters GPS heading. If it is actually coming from my fluxgate, why would
the two be 10 degrees off?

Puzzled in PA,

Bill Coleman
C 39 Erie, PA




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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions
are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!