Stus-List APS sale

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

APS has 25% off one item through Saturday including line.

Joel


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

[Ian Matthew via CnC-List]

Looking at the image, it looks like the entry should be a cheek block and
the sheave appears to be missing.  I would remove it and replace it with a
new cheek block.

Ian Matthew
C 29-1. "Siento el Viento"
San Francisco Bay.

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Brian Fry via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My mainsheet enters the boom and is chafing at the entry point. There is
> another small block aft the pulls on the main sheet and seems to be causing
> The chafe. Is this standard on other C?
>
> http://i.imgur.com/tLfmXHf.jpg
>
> Brian Fry
> La Neige
> Havre de Grace MD
>


-- 
Ian Matthew
"Siento el Viento" C 29 mk 1
San Francisco Bay

Sent from my iPad using Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Michael,

 

I agree that the “rule of thumb’ would mean that the headsail would be at about 
a 60 degree angle to the centerline of the boat.

 

And I also see your point about the headsail at 90 degrees projecting the 
maximum area for force to be generated. The “barn door” being pushed by the 
wind. 

 

But if you note, in the area just above the sections labeled “drag predominate” 
are equations for the coefficient of lift and drag, and a graphical 
representation of the coefficient for various angles of attack (with sail area 
and apparent wind speed being constant)

 

For a constant sail area and apparent wind, the maximum coefficient of drag is 
about 1.20 for a “barn door” at 90 degree angle of attack. With the angle of 
attack at 30 degrees, which is what you have with the headsail at 60 degrees to 
the centerline of the boat (and neglecting the impact of the aspect ratio of 
the sail), the coefficient of lift reaches about 1.50.

 

So the sail at 60 degrees to centerline vs. 90 degrees to centerline, you would 
see about 25% more driving force from the sail.

 

Now the force generated is also proportional to the square of the apparent wind 
speed. As the boat going dead down win accelerates to its maximum speed, the 
apparent wind speed will decrease. So the driving force will drop off 
significantly.

 

With the angle of attack at 30 degrees, the apparent wind will stay higher as 
the boat accelerates, and so the driving force will stay higher.

 

This impact is shown in the polar diagrams shown as part of the discussion you 
cite. Notice that the max VMG downwind is generated for a course of about 30 
degrees off DDW for wind speeds lower than 10 knots,  going up to about 10 to 
15 degrees off DDW as the true wind speed approaches 30 and boat speed 
approaches 10.

 

Bottom line, maintaining a curved shape to the headsail and flow over the sail 
generates more drive than a flat “barn door” sail.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
Brown via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 10:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

 

Hi Rick,

  I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole length, 
though it looks like
the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the jib holds 
a 60 degree angle
at the tack.

  For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline to 
maximize projected sail area
and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door.

  About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag Predominate ( 
separated flow )":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails

  The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at maximum with 
the sail at 90 degrees.
Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably where the 
mark is, where as if the
sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 degrees.

  I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no adjustment for 
length. In light air
and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

From: "Rick Brass"  > 

If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of thumb, the 
optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?. 

With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, 
the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole is 19?1?. Perpendicular 
to the center line would project the sail out as far as possible (which is what 
the whisker pole is supposed to do). There should have been some curvature to 
the sail, which you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped 
shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find I usually 
run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast to promote that cupped 
shape. 

The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would stretch the 
sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular. (Optimum whisker pole 
would be 14?7?) You might need to run the spin pole at a forward angle to get 
the proper sail shape, though that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of 
the sail. 

And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is adjustable, so you and 
match the length to the size of the headsail you are flying. 

Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in most PHRF 
areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are cruisers who want to 
get the most out of the boat, even though too short handed to fly the spin 
except on a log run. 

Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in non-spin racing 
to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those regions that give a separate 
rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems like if you race JAM, you ought to be 
able to optimize the boat 

Re: Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

[Bruno Mannsberger via CnC-List]

That is the mainsheet fine tune. There is a 6:1 purchase inside the boom that 
allows the main to be trimmed easily, for upwind trimming. The added purchse is 
very helpful for controlling leach twist in medium to heavy air.

I believe this is standard on the 37/40R and was an option on the XL.

Hope this helps.

Bruno Mannsberger
C 37/40 R
Wave Train
Ladysmith BC
 

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Stus-List Mainsheet 37/40

[Brian Fry via CnC-List]

My mainsheet enters the boom and is chafing at the entry point. There is
another small block aft the pulls on the main sheet and seems to be causing
The chafe. Is this standard on other C?

http://i.imgur.com/tLfmXHf.jpg

Brian Fry
La Neige
Havre de Grace MD
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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[William Walker via CnC-List]

If you are in a phrf region that doesn't limit the whisker pole to the J 
measurement it may well be faster to go dead downwind poled out.  
Since under LakevMichigan phrf we are limited to J I have had success with 
gybing downwind.  BUT, it requires that you know and apply your Polars to the 
conditions and wind speed and be committed to them.  You can't just go as fast 
as you can in the wrong direction and expect it to turn out well.
My experience
Bill Walker
CnC  36
Pentwater, Mi  


On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Same experience in my JAM fleet with 30-40 footers--barn doors win every 
time--in spite of advice to sail a hotter angle and jibe.
 
Can't figure out whether the advice is BS or I sail off at an angle where the 
extra distance is not made up by the faster speed and the subsequent jibes.
 
Until I am passed by a boat that jibes downwind in light air, I am sticking 
with the bard door approach!
 
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb #77
Oriental, NC
 
cenel...@aol.com
 
 





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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Same experience in my JAM fleet with 30-40 footers--barn doors win every 
time--in spite of advice to sail a hotter angle and jibe.
 
Can't figure out whether the advice is BS or I sail off at an angle where the 
extra distance is not made up by the faster speed and the subsequent jibes.
 
Until I am passed by a boat that jibes downwind in light air, I am sticking 
with the bard door approach!
 
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb #77
Oriental, NC
 
cenel...@aol.com

 
 
-Original Message-
From: RANDY via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY ; Michael Brown 
Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2016 3:47 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole



"In light air and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest."


It's been my observation that that's how the most experienced and winningest 
JAM boat skippers and crews in my club run downwind in their Catalina 27s, 
Ranger 26, and Cal 22 - wing and wing, headsail poled out.  They must believe 
that's fastest, and they've passed me doing it while I was broad reaching and 
gybing downwind.  Made a believer out of me, so I did the "if you can't lick 
'em, join 'em" thing.


Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO



From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "Michael Brown" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:49:47 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole



Hi Rick,



  I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole length, 
though it looks like
the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the jib holds 
a 60 degree angle
at the tack.



  For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline to 
maximize projected sail area
and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door.



  About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag Predominate ( 
separated flow )":



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails



  The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at maximum with 
the sail at 90 degrees.
Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably where the 
mark is, where as if the
sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 degrees.



  I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no adjustment for 
length. In light air
and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest.



Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1





From: "Rick Brass"  



If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of thumb, the 
optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?. 
 
With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, 
the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole is 19?1?. Perpendicular 
to the center line would project the sail out as far as possible (which is what 
the whisker pole is supposed to do). There should have been some curvature to 
the sail, which you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped 
shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find I usually 
run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast to promote that cupped 
shape. 
 
The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would stretch the 
sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular. (Optimum whisker pole 
would be 14?7?) You might need to run the spin pole at a forward angle to get 
the proper sail shape, though that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of 
the sail. 
 
And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is adjustable, so you and 
match the length to the size of the headsail you are flying. 
 
Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in most PHRF 
areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are cruisers who want to 
get the most out of the boat, even though too short handed to fly the spin 
except on a log run. 
 
Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in non-spin racing 
to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those regions that give a separate 
rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems like if you race JAM, you ought to be 
able to optimize the boat for JAM racing. 
 
Rick Brass 
 
Washington, NC 







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greatly appreciated!




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All 

Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole now downwind sailing

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Have you guys ever seen the Y-flyers sail downwind?  Here in the US they don't 
use chutes, but they have an extra long whisker pole and they actually wing it 
forward of the 90deg mark.  They then sail at a broad reach instead of a 
run.There was an article in Sailing World that suggested it for big boats.  
Can't find it right now so don't know the circumstances, whether it was for 
more modern designs with the larger mains or all types.Haven't tried it on my 
30, but then I race with others more these days.BTW found out something 
interesting about racing with the cruising chute; don't bother.  Turns out 
they're only about a 160% and not much better than your genny, unless it's 
really light.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL


  From: RANDY via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: RANDY ; Michael Brown 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:46 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole
   
"In light air and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest."
It's been my observation that that's how the most experienced and winningest 
JAM boat skippers and crews in my club run downwind in their Catalina 27s, 
Ranger 26, and Cal 22 - wing and wing, headsail poled out.  They must believe 
that's fastest, and they've passed me doing it while I was broad reaching and 
gybing downwind.  Made a believer out of me, so I did the "if you can't lick 
'em, join 'em" thing.
Cheers,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO
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greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[RANDY via CnC-List]

" In light air and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest." 

It's been my observation that that's how the most experienced and winningest 
JAM boat skippers and crews in my club run downwind in their Catalina 27s, 
Ranger 26, and Cal 22 - wing and wing, headsail poled out. They must believe 
that's fastest, and they've passed me doing it while I was broad reaching and 
gybing downwind. Made a believer out of me, so I did the "if you can't lick 
'em, join 'em" thing. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:49:47 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole 

Hi Rick, 

I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole length, 
though it looks like 
the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the jib holds 
a 60 degree angle 
at the tack. 

For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline to 
maximize projected sail area 
and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door. 

About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag Predominate ( 
separated flow )": 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails 

The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at maximum with the 
sail at 90 degrees. 
Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably where the 
mark is, where as if the 
sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 degrees. 

I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no adjustment for 
length. In light air 
and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest. 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C 30-1 




From: "Rick Brass"  

If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of thumb, the 
optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?. 

With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, 
the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole is 19?1?. Perpendicular 
to the center line would project the sail out as far as possible (which is what 
the whisker pole is supposed to do). There should have been some curvature to 
the sail, which you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped 
shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find I usually 
run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast to promote that cupped 
shape. 

The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would stretch the 
sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular. (Optimum whisker pole 
would be 14?7?) You might need to run the spin pole at a forward angle to get 
the proper sail shape, though that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of 
the sail. 

And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is adjustable, so you and 
match the length to the size of the headsail you are flying. 

Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in most PHRF 
areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are cruisers who want to 
get the most out of the boat, even though too short handed to fly the spin 
except on a log run. 

Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in non-spin racing 
to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those regions that give a separate 
rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems like if you race JAM, you ought to be 
able to optimize the boat for JAM racing. 

Rick Brass 

Washington, NC 






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greatly appreciated! 

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Portable Air Conditioner -- Anyone try it?

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dennis,

a Tee?  I just take off the hose and blow!

Joel

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Josh, and others with built in A/C units
>
> When cranked up, my CruisAir blows air in the mid-low 40's and keeps the
> cabin in the mid-low 70's even in 90+F heat without any awning.  You might
> put a thermometer in the discharge and check it.  It may well need a bit of
> service.
>
> Also, the water side may need to be flushed or upsized.  I have a Tee and
> valves on both inlet and exit to let me flush either way from the Tee.
>
> Also, check the temperature of the discharged water.  If it is fairly hot,
> you may not be getting enough flow.
>
> A good marine A/C tech will check all that plus the refrigerant pressures.
>
> Just a note: my marine repair colleague is the CruisAir repair tech for my
> area.  Maybe that's why my unit blows so cold.  :)
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Edd,
>>
>> I have a 16500 BTU system and despite discharging cold air it still
>> struggles to cool the cabin in the heat of summer.  Randomly through the
>> day it sucks up jellyfish which clog the strainer.  Worse than that is when
>> it happens in the middle of the night.  Admittedly my unit is older and may
>> need serviced.  I tend to agree with Dennis, awnings, insulation, and
>> ventilation are pretty effective and less hassle.
>>
>> Josh Muck key
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> On Aug 19, 2016 12:08 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Listers,
>>>
>>> We’ve had some really hot days up here in the Northeast and the Admiral
>>> is thinking air conditioning. I don’t really want to go through the expense
>>> of installing a marine air conditioner and through-hull valves, but I have
>>> been hearing stories of boaters putting one of those portable AC units on
>>> board with the exhaust hose going out through a hatch.
>>>
>>> I would probably stick with an 7,000-8,000 BTU using drawing 7-9 amps.
>>> The specs say that can cool 250 square feet, which I think would make the
>>> inside of a boat cabin quite comfortable. Obviously would only be used
>>> during shore power or while the engine is running (I have a high-amp
>>> alternator and a great inverter on board).
>>>
>>> Has anyone done this? Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Edd
>>>
>>>
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Portable Air Conditioner -- Anyone try it?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Josh, and others with built in A/C units

When cranked up, my CruisAir blows air in the mid-low 40's and keeps the
cabin in the mid-low 70's even in 90+F heat without any awning.  You might
put a thermometer in the discharge and check it.  It may well need a bit of
service.

Also, the water side may need to be flushed or upsized.  I have a Tee and
valves on both inlet and exit to let me flush either way from the Tee.

Also, check the temperature of the discharged water.  If it is fairly hot,
you may not be getting enough flow.

A good marine A/C tech will check all that plus the refrigerant pressures.

Just a note: my marine repair colleague is the CruisAir repair tech for my
area.  Maybe that's why my unit blows so cold.  :)

Dennis C.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Edd,
>
> I have a 16500 BTU system and despite discharging cold air it still
> struggles to cool the cabin in the heat of summer.  Randomly through the
> day it sucks up jellyfish which clog the strainer.  Worse than that is when
> it happens in the middle of the night.  Admittedly my unit is older and may
> need serviced.  I tend to agree with Dennis, awnings, insulation, and
> ventilation are pretty effective and less hassle.
>
> Josh Muck key
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Aug 19, 2016 12:08 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Listers,
>>
>> We’ve had some really hot days up here in the Northeast and the Admiral
>> is thinking air conditioning. I don’t really want to go through the expense
>> of installing a marine air conditioner and through-hull valves, but I have
>> been hearing stories of boaters putting one of those portable AC units on
>> board with the exhaust hose going out through a hatch.
>>
>> I would probably stick with an 7,000-8,000 BTU using drawing 7-9 amps.
>> The specs say that can cool 250 square feet, which I think would make the
>> inside of a boat cabin quite comfortable. Obviously would only be used
>> during shore power or while the engine is running (I have a high-amp
>> alternator and a great inverter on board).
>>
>> Has anyone done this? Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
>> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

For what its worth, Forespar gives whisker pole sizing info for C:

http://www.forespar.com/products/sail-spinnaker-pole-size-guide.shtml

In PHRF Long Island Sound, the max whisker pole length is equal to your 
LP measurement.  If you use your J-length spinnaker pole instead, PHRF 
LIS gives you a +6 credit for LP above 135%, and +3 for LP from 120% to 
135%.


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY


On 8/24/2016 10:49 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Rick,

  I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole 
length, though it looks like
the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the 
jib holds a 60 degree angle

at the tack.

  For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline 
to maximize projected sail area

and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door.

  About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag 
Predominate ( separated flow )":


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails

  The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at 
maximum with the sail at 90 degrees.
Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably 
where the mark is, where as if the
sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 
degrees.


  I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no 
adjustment for length. In light air

and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: "Rick Brass" 

If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of
thumb, the optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?.

With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline
of the boat, the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole
is 19?1?. Perpendicular to the center line would project the sail
out as far as possible (which is what the whisker pole is supposed
to do). There should have been some curvature to the sail, which
you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped
shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find
I usually run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast
to promote that cupped shape.

The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would
stretch the sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular.
(Optimum whisker pole would be 14?7?) You might need to run the
spin pole at a forward angle to get the proper sail shape, though
that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of the sail.

And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is
adjustable, so you and match the length to the size of the
headsail you are flying.

Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in
most PHRF areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are
cruisers who want to get the most out of the boat, even though too
short handed to fly the spin except on a log run.

Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in
non-spin racing to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those
regions that give a separate rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems
like if you race JAM, you ought to be able to optimize the boat
for JAM racing.

Rick Brass

Washington, NC





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Re: Stus-List Portable Air Conditioner -- Anyone try it?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Edd,

I have a 16500 BTU system and despite discharging cold air it still
struggles to cool the cabin in the heat of summer.  Randomly through the
day it sucks up jellyfish which clog the strainer.  Worse than that is when
it happens in the middle of the night.  Admittedly my unit is older and may
need serviced.  I tend to agree with Dennis, awnings, insulation, and
ventilation are pretty effective and less hassle.

Josh Muck key
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 19, 2016 12:08 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Listers,
>
> We’ve had some really hot days up here in the Northeast and the Admiral is
> thinking air conditioning. I don’t really want to go through the expense of
> installing a marine air conditioner and through-hull valves, but I have
> been hearing stories of boaters putting one of those portable AC units on
> board with the exhaust hose going out through a hatch.
>
> I would probably stick with an 7,000-8,000 BTU using drawing 7-9 amps. The
> specs say that can cool 250 square feet, which I think would make the
> inside of a boat cabin quite comfortable. Obviously would only be used
> during shore power or while the engine is running (I have a high-amp
> alternator and a great inverter on board).
>
> Has anyone done this? Any thoughts?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Rick,

  I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole length, 
though it looks like
the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the jib holds 
a 60 degree angle
at the tack.

  For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline to 
maximize projected sail area
and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door.

  About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag Predominate ( 
separated flow )":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails

  The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at maximum with 
the sail at 90 degrees.
Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably where the 
mark is, where as if the
sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 degrees.

  I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no adjustment for 
length. In light air
and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 

From: "Rick Brass"  

If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of thumb, the 
optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?. 
 
With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, 
the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole is 19?1?. Perpendicular 
to the center line would project the sail out as far as possible (which is what 
the whisker pole is supposed to do). There should have been some curvature to 
the sail, which you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped 
shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find I usually 
run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast to promote that cupped 
shape. 
 
The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would stretch the 
sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular. (Optimum whisker pole 
would be 14?7?) You might need to run the spin pole at a forward angle to get 
the proper sail shape, though that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of 
the sail. 
 
And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is adjustable, so you and 
match the length to the size of the headsail you are flying. 
 
Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in most PHRF 
areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are cruisers who want to 
get the most out of the boat, even though too short handed to fly the spin 
except on a log run. 
 
Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in non-spin racing 
to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those regions that give a separate 
rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems like if you race JAM, you ought to be 
able to optimize the boat for JAM racing. 
 
Rick Brass 
 
Washington, NC 
 

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Re: Stus-List Hard Starting

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

This should work for just about any engine:
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7708=starter+solenoid
Still sounds like the OP has an issue with a battery connection though.

Joe
Coquina


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 10:31
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hard Starting


Rob,

This isn't quite a schematic but here's a video I made.  I agree with you 
though, it does sound like a problem with the one battery or it's associated 
wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp2cGDa1VOU=youtube_gdata_player

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 23, 2016 10:24 AM, "Robert Gallagher via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
John,

Somewhere out there is a wiring diagram for adding a second solenoid to a 
Yanmar.  It's a common problem.  I tried googling it, but I could not find it 
straight away, don't have lots of time this AM but it IS out there.

This is a good thread for a possible fix:  
http://www.tartan3500.com/uploads/3/1/1/9/3119926/starter_wiring.pdf

or:
http://forum.trailersailor.com/post.php?id=1191629

One thing that strikes me is that you mentioned it's only one of batteries. 
This leads me to believe that one of your batteries is either weaker than the 
other or there is another issue that is only happening on one of your banks 
wiring.

Are your battery terminals clean and snug?

I have owned two sailboats and had to replace the battery selector switch on 
both.  I believe both were original and gave up the ghost around the quarter 
century mark.

The second one left me stranded and in need of a quick fix so I had to hire a 
mechanic.  My starter fried itself and the mechanic said it may have been 
partially due to the low voltage coming from the faulty selector switch.

Rob Gallagher

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Re: Stus-List Hard Starting

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Rob,

This isn't quite a schematic but here's a video I made.  I agree with you
though, it does sound like a problem with the one battery or it's
associated wiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp2cGDa1VOU=youtube_gdata_player

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 23, 2016 10:24 AM, "Robert Gallagher via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> John,
>
> Somewhere out there is a wiring diagram for adding a second solenoid to a
> Yanmar.  It's a common problem.  I tried googling it, but I could not find
> it straight away, don't have lots of time this AM but it IS out there.
>
> This is a good thread for a possible fix:  http://www.tartan3500.com/
> uploads/3/1/1/9/3119926/starter_wiring.pdf
>
> or:
> http://forum.trailersailor.com/post.php?id=1191629
>
> One thing that strikes me is that you mentioned it's only one of
> batteries. This leads me to believe that one of your batteries is either
> weaker than the other or there is another issue that is only happening on
> one of your banks wiring.
>
> Are your battery terminals clean and snug?
>
> I have owned two sailboats and had to replace the battery selector switch
> on both.  I believe both were original and gave up the ghost around the
> quarter century mark.
>
> The second one left me stranded and in need of a quick fix so I had to
> hire a mechanic.  My starter fried itself and the mechanic said it may have
> been partially due to the low voltage coming from the faulty selector
> switch.
>
> Rob Gallagher
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[robert via CnC-List]

Possibly a combination of bravado and stupidity as well as rum.

On 2016-08-24 11:10 AM, Wayne Anstey via CnC-List wrote:

Good rum!

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 24, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Interesting. Two different boats do the same sailing trip, both of 
them from Halifax. I wonder what they add to the drinking water in 
Halifax.


Btw. I think that the guys I know did it in a different (not C) 
boat and a little bit bigger (30 or 31 ft.).


Marek

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10


*From: *robert 
*Sent: *Wednesday, August 24, 2016 09:04
*To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
*Cc: *Marek Dziedzic 
*Subject: *Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C


Marek, I am pretty sure this was a 'single-handed' trip.the 
sailor was from the Armdale Yacht Club.was a topic of 
conversation among the sailing community here. Now whether he had his 
passport with him or didn't want a warm beer or his wife called and 
told him to get home, I can't say.


On another sailing adventure, I met the Russian sailor that 
circumvented in a C 35 MKI..I didn't plan it but I just 
happened to be on the dock at our club to let his lines go when he 
left Halifax on his adventure and a few years later, I just happened 
to be on the dock to receive his lines when he returned.   Why 
Halifax was his start and finish point, I don't know.  I never 
thought to ask him.  I gave him some chocolate bars just before he 
left and he gave me a bag of dried seaweed when he returned.  I 
didn't eat the seaweed.


He put the boat up for sale on his return to Halifax.no idea what 
happened to it..it was pretty crude.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2016-08-23 11:40 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
I know personally a couple of guys, who while living in Halifax (now 
one of them is in Ottawa), did this (or the same) trip. But they did 
it two-handed. Either it is a very popular endeavour among 
Haligonians or we are talking about the same trip.

Marek
*From:* robert via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:01 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
*Cc:* robert 
*Subject:* Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C
Don't ask me why he did it (I don't know) but a local sailor here 
some years back sailed his C 27 MKI, single handed, to England 
from Halifax, N.S. rounded a buoy in the English Channel and sailed 
back home.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. 
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!



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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


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Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

HI Antoine, 

I read your comment " Water temperature in July is around 6-7 degree 
celsius (around 45 Fahrenheit) in the St-Lawrence. There are a number of 
consequences to this. First, you need winter clothes (I?ve sailed under 
snow and freezing rain in mid May)."  And started smiling..

I distinctly remember attempting to launch my 470 off the beach somewhere 
near Saint-Irenee in July back in the early 80's:  Within about 5 minutes 
of wading around to launch the boat, I could not feel anything from the 
knee down. If I remember right we went for a short sail and decided that 
discretion was the better par of valor /  put the boat back on the trailer 
for the remainder of the weekend and stayed out of the glacial water.  LOL


Regards, 

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA

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Stus-List Anyone use Pettit Easypoxy (EZ-Poxy one part)

[Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Brandon,

You might want to consider Interlux Perfection  two parts.. It's a little 
more expensive but when you do it right, the results can be spectacular 
and it's extremely resilient and resistant to abrasion.  I painted my 
bright red boot stripe with it 2 years ago= Zero fade, zero wax, deep 
mirror like finish, it looks like a factory fresh gelcoat stripe..  I 
didn't use any primer but I did have to put 3 or so coats to get the 
ultimate finish and color. 

It's a little more work on the onset but then again, you'll would likely 
save both time and money from by not having to redo it in a couple years. 

Here's what it (still) looks like.  
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133565480@N04/26529592414/in/dateposted-public/

Contact me off list if you want more details. 

Just a thought. 

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA



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Re: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

The Russian guy who sailed around the world is interesting. Seems like most
people (prudently so) sweat the seaworthiness, tank capacity, full or fin
keel, "blue water" or not. He paid $1500 CAD for the 35MKI that he
circumnavigated in (IIRC, believe the video is on youtube with that info).
He's got a lot of videos on youtube. He had his cat with him.

Steve
Suhana, C 32
Toronto
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Re: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[Richard N. Bush via CnC-List]

 Such a trip has all the earmarks of a pub conversation...likely some bravado 
talk and dare made...I can almost hear it.."yeah, well my boat can make all the 
way to the Lighthouse and back"..."Oh yeah, well I can go to the English 
Channel...: Ok you're on...we leave tonightcue the seagulls and fade to 
daylight...
 


Richard
s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4;


Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: C List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Sent: Wed, Aug 24, 2016 9:25 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C



Interesting. Two different boats do the same sailing trip, both of them from 
Halifax. I wonder what they add to the drinking water in Halifax.
 
Btw. I think that the guys I know did it in a different (not C) boat and a 
little bit bigger (30 or 31 ft.).
 
Marek
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 



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Re: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I knew a guy that sailed a Cal 20 from Annapolis to Scotland. Too cramped below 
for me for that long.
Joe

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 09:25
To: C List
Cc: Marek Dziedzic
Subject: Re: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

Interesting. Two different boats do the same sailing trip, both of them from 
Halifax. I wonder what they add to the drinking water in Halifax.

Btw. I think that the guys I know did it in a different (not C) boat and a 
little bit bigger (30 or 31 ft.).

Marek

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 09:04
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic
Subject: Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C


Marek, I am pretty sure this was a 'single-handed' trip.the sailor was from 
the Armdale Yacht Club.was a topic of conversation among the sailing 
community here.  Now whether he had his passport with him or didn't want a warm 
beer or his wife called and told him to get home, I can't say.

On another sailing adventure, I met the Russian sailor that circumvented in a 
C 35 MKI..I didn't plan it but I just happened to be on the dock at our 
club to let his lines go when he left Halifax on his adventure and a few years 
later, I just happened to be on the dock to receive his lines when he returned. 
  Why Halifax was his start and finish point, I don't know.  I never thought to 
ask him.  I gave him some chocolate bars just before he left and he gave me a 
bag of dried seaweed when he returned.  I didn't eat the seaweed.

He put the boat up for sale on his return to Halifax.no idea what happened 
to it..it was pretty crude.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2016-08-23 11:40 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
I know personally a couple of guys, who while living in Halifax (now one of 
them is in Ottawa), did this (or the same) trip. But they did it two-handed. 
Either it is a very popular endeavour among Haligonians or we are talking about 
the same trip.

Marek
From: robert via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:01 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

Don't ask me why he did it (I don't know) but a local sailor here some years 
back sailed his C 27 MKI, single handed, to England from Halifax, N.S. 
rounded a buoy in the English Channel and sailed back home.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.






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Re: Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Interesting. Two different boats do the same sailing trip, both of them from 
Halifax. I wonder what they add to the drinking water in Halifax.

Btw. I think that the guys I know did it in a different (not C) boat and a 
little bit bigger (30 or 31 ft.).

Marek

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 09:04
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic
Subject: Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C


Marek, I am pretty sure this was a 'single-handed' trip.the sailor
was from the Armdale Yacht Club.was a topic of conversation among
the sailing community here.  Now whether he had his passport with him or
didn't want a warm beer or his wife called and told him to get home, I
can't say.

On another sailing adventure, I met the Russian sailor that circumvented
in a C 35 MKI..I didn't plan it but I just happened to be on the
dock at our club to let his lines go when he left Halifax on his
adventure and a few years later, I just happened to be on the dock to
receive his lines when he returned.   Why Halifax was his start and
finish point, I don't know.  I never thought to ask him.  I gave him
some chocolate bars just before he left and he gave me a bag of dried
seaweed when he returned.  I didn't eat the seaweed.

He put the boat up for sale on his return to Halifax.no idea what
happened to it..it was pretty crude.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2016-08-23 11:40 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
> I know personally a couple of guys, who while living in Halifax (now
> one of them is in Ottawa), did this (or the same) trip. But they did
> it two-handed. Either it is a very popular endeavour among Haligonians
> or we are talking about the same trip.
> Marek
> *From:* robert via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:01 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* robert 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C
> Don't ask me why he did it (I don't know) but a local sailor here some
> years back sailed his C 27 MKI, single handed, to England from
> Halifax, N.S. rounded a buoy in the English Channel and sailed back home.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>>

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Re: Stus-List Ken Heilwell book

[Richard N. Bush via CnC-List]

 Ron, I paid $34.00 US which includes shipping just yesterday at Amazon

 


Richard
s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4


Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker 
Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 9:43 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Ken Heilwell book



I must be dense; one place seems to indicate the book is around twenty bucks 
and another is in the hundreds.
What am I reading wrong?
Ron





  
 
 
  

 
  

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Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C

[robert via CnC-List]

Marek, I am pretty sure this was a 'single-handed' trip.the sailor 
was from the Armdale Yacht Club.was a topic of conversation among 
the sailing community here.  Now whether he had his passport with him or 
didn't want a warm beer or his wife called and told him to get home, I 
can't say.


On another sailing adventure, I met the Russian sailor that circumvented 
in a C 35 MKI..I didn't plan it but I just happened to be on the 
dock at our club to let his lines go when he left Halifax on his 
adventure and a few years later, I just happened to be on the dock to 
receive his lines when he returned.   Why Halifax was his start and 
finish point, I don't know.  I never thought to ask him.  I gave him 
some chocolate bars just before he left and he gave me a bag of dried 
seaweed when he returned.  I didn't eat the seaweed.


He put the boat up for sale on his return to Halifax.no idea what 
happened to it..it was pretty crude.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2016-08-23 11:40 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote:
I know personally a couple of guys, who while living in Halifax (now 
one of them is in Ottawa), did this (or the same) trip. But they did 
it two-handed. Either it is a very popular endeavour among Haligonians 
or we are talking about the same trip.

Marek
*From:* robert via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:01 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
*Cc:* robert 
*Subject:* Stus-List Grand adventure/ long distance sailing in a C
Don't ask me why he did it (I don't know) but a local sailor here some 
years back sailed his C 27 MKI, single handed, to England from 
Halifax, N.S. rounded a buoy in the English Channel and sailed back home.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Small hull dent C 25

[Mark McMenamy via CnC-List]

Thanks Joshsounds like good advice.I'll take it!

On Aug 23, 2016, at 10:25 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Without seeing it I say you're fine.  I'm no fiberglass expert but I suggest 
you go sailing.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Aug 23, 2016 10:18 PM, "Mark McMenamy via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
Hello Everyone,

The previous owner added an outboard engine and reinforced the transom with an 
aluminum backing plate.  The plate is held in place with the bolts for the 
motor mount as well as three bolts along the bottom of the transom.  The bolts 
are above the water line.  The backing plate inside presses against a glob of 
fiberglass resin on one corner.  This should have been ground out, but wasn't 
and as result it has caused a small dime sized raised bit on the outside of the 
transom.  It's only a couple millimeters high.  It's hard to see, but you can 
feel it with your finger.  The gel coat has fine hairline cracks that haven't 
increased in size for 6 months.  I'm not a fiberglass expert and was wondering 
if I need to worry about any  possible structural issues?   From what I 
understand fiberglass is pretty flexible.

Thanks a lot as always for your help,

Mark McMenamy
C 25 Icicle
Fort Pierce FL
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