Re: Stus-List Battery compartment and battery boxes. SS straps?

[john sandford via CnC-List]

I like the ratchet strap idea.

Mine are gel, no box, and the crummy plastic CTyre strap.

Does anyone know where to get ratchet straps, in general, with SS hardware ?

Batteries, Dingy to dock, float removal and securing, etc. many more 
applications.

Thanks for any guidance.

John

LF38

 

 

From: Josh Muckley [mailto:muckl...@gmail.com] 
Sent: May-20-17 1:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery compartment and battery boxes

 

I bought kayak straps. 

 

NRS 1in Heavy-Duty Buckle Bumper Strap Blue, 9ft 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IAI9N7K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_KFgizbD89HKG1

 

But you could use ratchet straps too.

 

Mann Ratchet Tie Downs Straps with S-hooks 1-Inch x 15-Feet 500 Lbs Load Cap - 
1500 Lb Break Strength 2-Pack Set 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AIWGB4I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jIgizbDPS31AR

 

I wanted to avoid putting anchor screws in the lower part of my compartment.  
Seems kinda counter productive to epoxy in a box for leak tightness only to 
then put holes in it for fasteners.  I bent some flat aluminum bar stock so 
that it follows the contours of the inside of the battery compartment.  The 
bars are held in place at the top of the compartment.  My straps are fed 
perpendicular under the bars and the batteries sit on top of both.  The straps 
wrap across the top of the batteries and meet on the side.

 

The load requirements are side to side movement of less than an inch and mounts 
which can hold 90lbs.

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

 

 

On Sat, May 20, 2017, 10:02 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hi Josh- Thanks for the advice.  If water is getting to my compartment then I 
have serious problems well beyond the batteries.  Can you clarify what kind of 
ratcheting strap you use?  I don’t think much of the plastic clamp strap that 
came with the boat.  Thanks- Dave

 

On May 19, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

ABYC is a little vague with the battery box requiments.  In summery it 
describes keeping the batteries sufficiently mounted to prevent sliding around. 
 It describes a cover to prevent inadvertent contact with the terminals.  If 
you use a ratchet strap and insulated terminal covers then you technically meet 
the requirements.

 

Commercially available plastic battery boxes provide a means of restraint and 
insulation of the terminals.  Properly made and used, the battery boxes also 
provide a means of catching acid if it were to leak out.  The lids are designed 
to maintain a loop seal which prevents water from getting in the box should a 
flooding situation submerge the box.  Sea water and batteries is a bad 
combination which can, not just short out and destroy the battery, but also 
generate chlorine gas.

 

I don't have commercial battery boxes in either of my battery compartments.  
The batteries are strapped down.  The compartments are glassed in to provide 
leak resistance.  The compartments have wooden lids which prevent inadvertent 
contact with the terminals.

 

I think you are ok removing the plastic boxes.

 

Josh Muckley

S/V Sea Hawk

1989 C 37+

Solomons, MD

 

 

 

On May 18, 2017 12:07 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List"  
wrote:

I have finished my rewiring project and everything seems to be working fine.  I 
ended up putting a Blue Sea Si-ACR to control charging inside the battery 
compartment as I could find no other accessible space for it.  It is not pretty 
crowded inside that area with wires, two batteries, and the ACR.  The 
compartment is a solid bottom fiberglass area with a wood top panel for access 
and a strap that goes through slots on the bottom of the compartment.  The 
batteries are sealed AGM.  I am considering removing the two battery boxes that 
the batteries sit inside of inside the compartment as they seem redundant to me 
with sealed batteries.  I can strap down the batteries instead of strapping 
down the battery boxes.  This will give me a bit more room and flexibility in 
the compartment.  Is there any safety reason I should not do this?  Thanks- Dave

 

Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT


Error! Filename not specified.

 


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

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Re: Stus-List Battery compartment and battery boxes

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Just make sure any strap you buy for wet cell batteries is NOT cotton.
Most aren't.  Sulfuric acid LOVES cotton.

Dennis C.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I bought kayak straps.
>
> NRS 1in Heavy-Duty Buckle Bumper Strap Blue, 9ft
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IAI9N7K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_KFgizbD89HKG1
>
> But you could use ratchet straps too.
>
> Mann Ratchet Tie Downs Straps with S-hooks 1-Inch x 15-Feet 500 Lbs Load
> Cap - 1500 Lb Break Strength 2-Pack Set https://www.amazon.com/dp/
> B01AIWGB4I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jIgizbDPS31AR
>
> I wanted to avoid putting anchor screws in the lower part of my
> compartment.  Seems kinda counter productive to epoxy in a box for leak
> tightness only to then put holes in it for fasteners.  I bent some flat
> aluminum bar stock so that it follows the contours of the inside of the
> battery compartment.  The bars are held in place at the top of the
> compartment.  My straps are fed perpendicular under the bars and the
> batteries sit on top of both.  The straps wrap across the top of the
> batteries and meet on the side.
>
> The load requirements are side to side movement of less than an inch and
> mounts which can hold 90lbs.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2017, 10:02 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh- Thanks for the advice.  If water is getting to my compartment
>> then I have serious problems well beyond the batteries.  Can you clarify
>> what kind of ratcheting strap you use?  I don’t think much of the plastic
>> clamp strap that came with the boat.  Thanks- Dave
>>
>> On May 19, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> ABYC is a little vague with the battery box requiments.  In summery it
>> describes keeping the batteries sufficiently mounted to prevent sliding
>> around.  It describes a cover to prevent inadvertent contact with the
>> terminals.  If you use a ratchet strap and insulated terminal covers then
>> you technically meet the requirements.
>>
>> Commercially available plastic battery boxes provide a means of restraint
>> and insulation of the terminals.  Properly made and used, the battery boxes
>> also provide a means of catching acid if it were to leak out.  The lids are
>> designed to maintain a loop seal which prevents water from getting in the
>> box should a flooding situation submerge the box.  Sea water and batteries
>> is a bad combination which can, not just short out and destroy the battery,
>> but also generate chlorine gas.
>>
>> I don't have commercial battery boxes in either of my battery
>> compartments.  The batteries are strapped down.  The compartments are
>> glassed in to provide leak resistance.  The compartments have wooden lids
>> which prevent inadvertent contact with the terminals.
>>
>> I think you are ok removing the plastic boxes.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 18, 2017 12:07 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have finished my rewiring project and everything seems to be working
>>> fine.  I ended up putting a Blue Sea Si-ACR to control charging inside the
>>> battery compartment as I could find no other accessible space for it.  It
>>> is not pretty crowded inside that area with wires, two batteries, and the
>>> ACR.  The compartment is a solid bottom fiberglass area with a wood top
>>> panel for access and a strap that goes through slots on the bottom of the
>>> compartment.  The batteries are sealed AGM.  I am considering removing the
>>> two battery boxes that the batteries sit inside of inside the compartment
>>> as they seem redundant to me with sealed batteries.  I can strap down the
>>> batteries instead of strapping down the battery boxes.  This will give me a
>>> bit more room and flexibility in the compartment.  Is there any safety
>>> reason I should not do this?  Thanks- Dave
>>>
>>> Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>

Re: Stus-List Battery compartment and battery boxes

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I bought kayak straps.

NRS 1in Heavy-Duty Buckle Bumper Strap Blue, 9ft
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IAI9N7K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_KFgizbD89HKG1

But you could use ratchet straps too.

Mann Ratchet Tie Downs Straps with S-hooks 1-Inch x 15-Feet 500 Lbs Load
Cap - 1500 Lb Break Strength 2-Pack Set
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AIWGB4I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jIgizbDPS31AR

I wanted to avoid putting anchor screws in the lower part of my
compartment.  Seems kinda counter productive to epoxy in a box for leak
tightness only to then put holes in it for fasteners.  I bent some flat
aluminum bar stock so that it follows the contours of the inside of the
battery compartment.  The bars are held in place at the top of the
compartment.  My straps are fed perpendicular under the bars and the
batteries sit on top of both.  The straps wrap across the top of the
batteries and meet on the side.

The load requirements are side to side movement of less than an inch and
mounts which can hold 90lbs.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Sat, May 20, 2017, 10:02 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh- Thanks for the advice.  If water is getting to my compartment
> then I have serious problems well beyond the batteries.  Can you clarify
> what kind of ratcheting strap you use?  I don’t think much of the plastic
> clamp strap that came with the boat.  Thanks- Dave
>
> On May 19, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> ABYC is a little vague with the battery box requiments.  In summery it
> describes keeping the batteries sufficiently mounted to prevent sliding
> around.  It describes a cover to prevent inadvertent contact with the
> terminals.  If you use a ratchet strap and insulated terminal covers then
> you technically meet the requirements.
>
> Commercially available plastic battery boxes provide a means of restraint
> and insulation of the terminals.  Properly made and used, the battery boxes
> also provide a means of catching acid if it were to leak out.  The lids are
> designed to maintain a loop seal which prevents water from getting in the
> box should a flooding situation submerge the box.  Sea water and batteries
> is a bad combination which can, not just short out and destroy the battery,
> but also generate chlorine gas.
>
> I don't have commercial battery boxes in either of my battery
> compartments.  The batteries are strapped down.  The compartments are
> glassed in to provide leak resistance.  The compartments have wooden lids
> which prevent inadvertent contact with the terminals.
>
> I think you are ok removing the plastic boxes.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2017 12:07 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I have finished my rewiring project and everything seems to be working
>> fine.  I ended up putting a Blue Sea Si-ACR to control charging inside the
>> battery compartment as I could find no other accessible space for it.  It
>> is not pretty crowded inside that area with wires, two batteries, and the
>> ACR.  The compartment is a solid bottom fiberglass area with a wood top
>> panel for access and a strap that goes through slots on the bottom of the
>> compartment.  The batteries are sealed AGM.  I am considering removing the
>> two battery boxes that the batteries sit inside of inside the compartment
>> as they seem redundant to me with sealed batteries.  I can strap down the
>> batteries instead of strapping down the battery boxes.  This will give me a
>> bit more room and flexibility in the compartment.  Is there any safety
>> reason I should not do this?  Thanks- Dave
>>
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery compartment and battery boxes

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Josh- Thanks for the advice.  If water is getting to my compartment then I 
have serious problems well beyond the batteries.  Can you clarify what kind of 
ratcheting strap you use?  I don’t think much of the plastic clamp strap that 
came with the boat.  Thanks- Dave

> On May 19, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> ABYC is a little vague with the battery box requiments.  In summery it 
> describes keeping the batteries sufficiently mounted to prevent sliding 
> around.  It describes a cover to prevent inadvertent contact with the 
> terminals.  If you use a ratchet strap and insulated terminal covers then you 
> technically meet the requirements.
> 
> Commercially available plastic battery boxes provide a means of restraint and 
> insulation of the terminals.  Properly made and used, the battery boxes also 
> provide a means of catching acid if it were to leak out.  The lids are 
> designed to maintain a loop seal which prevents water from getting in the box 
> should a flooding situation submerge the box.  Sea water and batteries is a 
> bad combination which can, not just short out and destroy the battery, but 
> also generate chlorine gas.
> 
> I don't have commercial battery boxes in either of my battery compartments.  
> The batteries are strapped down.  The compartments are glassed in to provide 
> leak resistance.  The compartments have wooden lids which prevent inadvertent 
> contact with the terminals.
> 
> I think you are ok removing the plastic boxes.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> 
> On May 18, 2017 12:07 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> I have finished my rewiring project and everything seems to be working fine.  
> I ended up putting a Blue Sea Si-ACR to control charging inside the battery 
> compartment as I could find no other accessible space for it.  It is not 
> pretty crowded inside that area with wires, two batteries, and the ACR.  The 
> compartment is a solid bottom fiberglass area with a wood top panel for 
> access and a strap that goes through slots on the bottom of the compartment.  
> The batteries are sealed AGM.  I am considering removing the two battery 
> boxes that the batteries sit inside of inside the compartment as they seem 
> redundant to me with sealed batteries.  I can strap down the batteries 
> instead of strapping down the battery boxes.  This will give me a bit more 
> room and flexibility in the compartment.  Is there any safety reason I should 
> not do this?  Thanks- Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night

[Antoine Rose via CnC-List]

All of this is based on a old (actually getting very old) coefficient that does 
not take into account that the waterline length is not static, the waterline 
length increases as the boat heal and gain speed.
Moreover, as the prismatic coefficient is now better understood, recent boat 
designs with wide transom can easily go above the theoretical speed. My new 
boat (Alubat 36) can easily achieve speed in the 9-11 knots range under 
spinnaker.
On my C 30, I consider my true hull speed to be 7,4 knots. I good winds, I 
will reach speed above 7 knots, but 7,4 seems to always be the limit for a 
sustained speed.

Antoine 
C 30 Cousin


> Le 19 mai 2017 à 17:47, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  a 
> écrit :
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Keep in mind that the hull speed is not the "maximum" speed that the boat 
> will acheive.  It is the maximum speed at which the amount of energy needed 
> to cause the boat to go fast increases, and yes, it is a steep increase in 
> energy input from the sails.
> 
> That said, our C 27 MKIII regularly sailed above the 6.4 kts. in 
> theoretical hull speed.  That was measured by GPS, and of course, that 
> measures speed over ground which can be significantly affected by current.  
> That said, my sailing experiences on that boat were on Lake Michigan, in all 
> kinds of conditions.
> 
> GPS sustained recorded hull speeds (meaning more than just a surf, but 
> lasting more than a minute at a time) would exceed 7.0 knots multiple times 
> in every season.  Usually this required 12 - 15 knots of speed on an apparent 
> beam reach.  
> 
> On a couple transits between Chicago and Milwaukee, with apparent deep 
> reaches and sustained 15 - 20 kt winds, we had sustained 8.5 kt speeds, and 
> on one memorable night, we had sustained 10's, tracked by a friend's 
> permanently tracked GPS speeds (not just looking at the numbers).  I'm not 
> sure I can dig up that log, but he might be able to find it.  I'm not sure 
> I've heard of a current exceeding 2 kts on Lake Michigan, but others may know 
> better.  
> 
> And, no, even with heal, you might be increasing your waterline length by 
> 10%, but not much more, and considering the formula, that doesn't equate to a 
> 10% faster boat.  
> 
> So, its a guideline, not an absolute maximum.
> 
> Hope you find this helpful (though you might find in unbelievable) 
> 
> Kindest Regards,
> 
> Bruce Whitmore
> 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net 
> 
> 
> From: RANDY via CnC-List  >
> To: cnc-list > 
> Cc: RANDY >
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
> 
> Ok that made me laugh :D
> 
> That's why I first noticed that speed via the replay.  I sure as hell am not 
> looking at my iPhone in the middle of that kind of chaos :)  In fact this 
> past Wednesday night when I finally got a rail in the water, I even forgot to 
> look at my clinometer in all the excitement - but I suspect she was heeling 
> around 30 degrees.  I know 25 degrees isn't enough to get the rail wet.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
> From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  >
> To: "cnc-list" >
> Cc: "Gary Nylander"  >
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:11:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
> 
> I remember that Randy is on a lake in Colorado. More than likely his burst of 
> speed is the hull settling into the water as it goes faster and thus 
> increasing the waterline – and/or being heeled over which also increases the 
> waterline. When my 30-1 gets the rail in the water in 20-30 knots of wind, I 
> am generally too busy to look at the speed.
>  
> I’m sure all of you nautical types remember the war stories about clipper 
> ships going so fast they literally bury themselves as the make a bigger and 
> bigger hole in the water. I am not interested in trying that.
>  
> Oh well.
> Gary
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Gary Russell via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:01 PM
> To: C List >
> Cc: Gary Russell >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
>  
> Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over 
> the water.  A one knot favorable current can easily explain the difference.
>  
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
>  
> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> GPS is usually in miles per 

Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?

[bwhitmore--- via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh!  Definitely added those to my upgrade list.
Kindest Regards, 
Bruce C 37 / 40 + 


Sent from Samsung tablet.

 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Date: 5/19/2017  5:58 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham? 

Check out these pictures.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8pEh5lnvP1yX3hxVGZGNmNnLU0
I looked at the cunninham again and decided that it is a 4 to 1.  It pulls on 
the pennant.  It's hard to tell where the pennant goes since it dives up under 
the sail pack.  I tried to show how it attaches with the tack pin on the other 
side of main after passing through the reef cringle.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 


On May 19, 2017 9:04 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List"  
wrote:
Hi Josh,
While I understand what you are describing, I'd love to have a picture of your 
Cunningham setup.
Would you have one available to share?
I am thinking of adding cars to my jib track that I can adjust from the cockpit 
via lines (rather than the pinned adjustable cars I have now), so if you have a 
photo of that type of setup, that would be greatly appreciated as well.
Thanks as always for your help, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


   From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:30 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Baby stay vs Cunningham?
   
Ultimately, to answer your question, IMO the Cunningham is a valuable addition.
For me adjusting halyard tension is more difficult than adjusting Cunningham.  
My Cunningham is a 5 to 1 fiddle block arrangement which pulls down on a 
pennant that passes through the luff cringle (2 to 1) resulting in a compounded 
10 to 1 purchase system.
With my tides marine strong track system I can nearly raise the mainsail bare 
handed.  In a hurry I can close the jammer and yank on the Cunningham and have 
a good luff tension.  Given a little more time, a quick crank on a winch and 
the sail is set.  On upwind runs when trying to move the draft forward I can 
harden up on the cunningham and the outhaul.  If I need to further flatten the 
sail or keep the mast from pumping I haul on the baby stay.  As I round the 
mark for the down wind run I release the cunningham to move the draft back.  
Release the outhaul to increase the draft overall and easy the babystay as long 
as there is no pumping or rough chop.
Long story short - all jammers, all hand tightened, none of that requires a 
winch... Or anybody getting out of the cockpit. 
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD

On May 17, 2017 9:43 PM, "Dave S via CnC-List"  wrote:
Both depower the main  Does the adjustable baby stay (mast bend) make the 
Cunningham (luff tension) redundant?

I have an adjustable baby stay, is adding a Cunningham a waste of time?



Thanks , Dave

33-2



Sent from my iPhone

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stumurray



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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!




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