Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains - stories version

[Lee Youngblood via CnC-List]

Hi Don,

I have a 1974 C 35-II with the same drain plan.  I’ve sailed in >34kts in 
Puget Sound (I didn’t look after that) and some puffs were around 50 - reported 
by other cruising boats, returning from the same raft-up.  I should have had 
the third reef in, but had my hands full by then.  Depending on the wave 
conditions, I only buried the rail every 3-5 waves.  We don’t have a dodger, so 
I like the “protection” of the leeward aft cockpit seat, and on the big puffs 
got sprayed, and the really big one, likely over 50, slightly hosed.  I was 
very impressed with the combings and deck design, as I watched 3-6 inches of 
foaming water flowing down the deck towards me.  C got it right, the combing 
curves, and the water was sloshed right off the boat!  I’m pretty sure you 
would need much bigger offshore waves to get any real water in the cockpit.

No I take that back!  Years ago, we were crossing the sound, close behind a big 
container ship.  I headed up to take a picture, and Kathleen calmly said “I 
think I will go straight into this one.”  Before I could say anything, the bow 
dropped about 8’ into the hole, I stepped up onto the coach-house, put my elbow 
over the boom, and picked up my feet as the wave poured over the boat into the 
cockpit.  It didn’t take long for about  16” of water to disappear, and as she 
jumped up on the aft seats to keep her feet dry, she said “Well I don’t think I 
will do that again!”  We had the companion-way hatch closed, but forward hatch, 
and the scoop vents in the head were under water and leaked.  Even years later, 
Kathleen is very good about checking that the forward hatch is dogged down. . . 
every time we go out.

Great boats!  Happy New Year, Lee  


> On Jan 3, 2019, at 7:17 31PM, Don Kern via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> With all this discussion of the cockpit drains I went out to my boat (C 
> MkII, which spends winter in my side yard) to check the layout and take some 
> measurements.  The two scupper valves are 9" from the centerline (18" apart) 
> and are approx. 20" below the waterline.  The cockpit deck (floor) is 12" 
> above the waterline. The forward T-cockpit drain is 26" above the hull at the 
> valve and valve top is 5 1/4" tall measured from the outside of the hull at 
> the valve exit.  Both valves are faired flush to the hull.  The aft cockpit 
> scupper drains which are T'ed into the forward scuppers valves are further 
> outboard and a little lower.  It is these scuppers that have water when 
> heeling over to the point that we have water coming over the leeward rail.  I 
> have attached a diagram of the set up.  It appears that cross connecting the 
> scuppers would not help keep water out of the aft cockpit as the boat would 
> have to have the spreaders almost in the water.  Portends I have bigger 
> problems then water in the cockpit.
> 
> Don Kern
> Fireball, C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
> On 1/3/2019 1:47 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>> As I recall, on my 35-1 it takes 15-20 degrees for water to emerge from the 
>> leeward steering station scupper.  That's just when it's starting to get fun!
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:16 AM Garry Cross via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> Understand that. Wonder what degree of heel it would take to achieve that. 
>>  
>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:01 PM Neil Andersen > > wrote:
>> The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are both below the 
>> line.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 

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Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

With all this discussion of the cockpit drains I went out to my boat 
(C MkII, which spends winter in my side yard) to check the layout 
and take some measurements.  The two scupper valves are 9" from the 
centerline (18" apart) and are approx. 20" below the waterline.  The 
cockpit deck (floor) is 12" above the waterline. The forward T-cockpit 
drain is 26" above the hull at the valve and valve top is 5 1/4" tall 
measured from the outside of the hull at the valve exit.  Both valves 
are faired flush to the hull.  The aft cockpit scupper drains which are 
T'ed into the forward scuppers valves are further outboard and a little 
lower. It is these scuppers that have water when heeling over to the 
point that we have water coming over the leeward rail.  I have attached 
a diagram of the set up.  It appears that cross connecting the scuppers 
would not help keep water out of the aft cockpit as the boat would have 
to have the spreaders almost in the water.  Portends I have bigger 
problems then water in the cockpit.


Don Kern
Fireball, C Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 1/3/2019 1:47 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
As I recall, on my 35-1 it takes 15-20 degrees for water to emerge 
from the leeward steering station scupper.  That's just when it's 
starting to get fun!


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:16 AM Garry Cross via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Understand that. Wonder what degree of heel it would take to
achieve that.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:01 PM Neil Andersen
mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are
both below the line.



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Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

As I recall, on my 35-1 it takes 15-20 degrees for water to emerge from the
leeward steering station scupper.  That's just when it's starting to get
fun!

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:16 AM Garry Cross via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Understand that. Wonder what degree of heel it would take to achieve that.
>


> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:01 PM Neil Andersen 
> wrote:
>
>> The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are both below the
>> line.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Even if the through hull is higher than the scupper, no water enters the 
cockpit (it does not drain, either, but as you said, if you already have water 
in the cockpit at that position, you have bigger problems to worry about).

Marek


From: Garry Cross via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 12:16
To: Neil Andersen
Cc: Garry Cross ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains


Having them crossed it is easy for me to imagine a heel where the through hull 
is higher than the drain.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:01 PM Neil Andersen  
wrote:
The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are both below the line.

Neil
1982 C 32 FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


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Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

If the thru hull and drain are on the same side, they both “drop” the same 
amount.  If they are crossed, when the thru-hull drops lower, the connected 
drain goes higher

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: Garry Cross 
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Neil Andersen
Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

Understand that. Wonder what degree of heel it would take to achieve that. One 
would think that it would be extreme and that one would want to reduce that as 
soon as possible.
I think that regardless, if the cockpit floor scupper is below the water line, 
I don't care where the through hull is for that particular scupper, I got more 
things to worry about.
Having them crossed it is easy for me to imagine a heel where the through hull 
is higher than the drain. I don't see how that helps. The normal way the 
through hull is below the drain unless the boat is upside down.
I am not saying it's wrong, just trying to understand the geometry and drainage.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:01 PM Neil Andersen 
mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are both below the line.

Neil
1982 C 32 FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of Garry Cross via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 2:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Garry Cross
Subject: Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

Interesting, on the 35-2 there are 4 drains and 2 through hulls. I don't think 
they are above the waterline.
The aft cockpit floor is lower than the forward one. Both sets of drains are 
forward.
Replaced valves and hoses a few years ago. Reused the through hulls although 
the tabs inside got busted trying to hold them to unscrew the valves. C 
should have used real through hulls that are bolted to the hull.

Picture of Second Chance under sail.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P9GN3fVTNp2PHzZuVQuB29tcbe3oxpA9
Happy New Year


-- Forwarded message --
From: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
To: CnClist mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 13:44:05 -0600
Subject: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains
Just to piggyback on the stuck seacock thread.

My buddy is a salvor.  He gets the call when a boat on our bayou is on the 
bottom.  A significant percentage of the sinkings involve plugged cockpit 
scupper drains.  Leaves and/or debris plug the drain(s).  The cockpit fills 
with rain water.  The weight of the water sinks the boat until the cockpit 
scuppers are submerged and down it goes.  Sometimes a neglected boat with a low 
companionway threshold will get so much rain water in the cockpit it overflows 
into the cabin.

Leave the cockpit seacocks open and make sure they are clear.  I flush Touche's 
twice a year.  Who knows what spider, mud dauber of whatever builds a nest in 
them.

Also, on haul out.  Make sure you know which way your cockpit drains.  Block 
the boat accordingly.  The 35-1 cockpit, like others, drains forward.  I always 
make sure Touche' is blocked level or slightly bow down.

Also, just as a note, the 35-1 has 4 cockpit scupper drains.  Two of them are 
in the aft steering station which is separated from the rest of the cockpit by 
a bulkhead.  These two drain exit at or slightly above the waterline when the 
boat is floating on its lines.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA




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Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

[Garry Cross via CnC-List]

Understand that. Wonder what degree of heel it would take to achieve that.
One would think that it would be extreme and that one would want to reduce
that as soon as possible.
I think that regardless, if the cockpit floor scupper is below the water
line, I don't care where the through hull is for that particular scupper, I
got more things to worry about.
Having them crossed it is easy for me to imagine a heel where the through
hull is higher than the drain. I don't see how that helps. The normal way
the through hull is below the drain unless the boat is upside down.
I am not saying it's wrong, just trying to understand the geometry and
drainage.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 3:01 PM Neil Andersen 
wrote:

> The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are both below the
> line.
>
> Neil
> 1982 C 32 FoxFire
> Rock Hall, MD
>
> Neil Andersen
> 20691 Jamieson Rd
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Garry Cross
> via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 2, 2019 2:19 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Garry Cross
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains
>
> Interesting, on the 35-2 there are 4 drains and 2 through hulls. I don't
> think they are above the waterline.
> The aft cockpit floor is lower than the forward one. Both sets of drains
> are forward.
> Replaced valves and hoses a few years ago. Reused the through hulls
> although the tabs inside got busted trying to hold them to unscrew the
> valves. C should have used real through hulls that are bolted to the
> hull.
>
> Picture of Second Chance under sail.
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P9GN3fVTNp2PHzZuVQuB29tcbe3oxpA9
> Happy New Year
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: "Dennis C." 
>> To: CnClist 
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2018 13:44:05 -0600
>> Subject: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains
>> Just to piggyback on the stuck seacock thread.
>>
>> My buddy is a salvor.  He gets the call when a boat on our bayou is on
>> the bottom.  A significant percentage of the sinkings involve plugged
>> cockpit scupper drains.  Leaves and/or debris plug the drain(s).  The
>> cockpit fills with rain water.  The weight of the water sinks the boat
>> until the cockpit scuppers are submerged and down it goes.  Sometimes a
>> neglected boat with a low companionway threshold will get so much rain
>> water in the cockpit it overflows into the cabin.
>>
>> Leave the cockpit seacocks open and make sure they are clear.  I flush
>> Touche's twice a year.  Who knows what spider, mud dauber of whatever
>> builds a nest in them.
>>
>> Also, on haul out.  Make sure you know which way your cockpit drains.
>> Block the boat accordingly.  The 35-1 cockpit, like others, drains
>> forward.  I always make sure Touche' is blocked level or slightly bow down.
>>
>> Also, just as a note, the 35-1 has 4 cockpit scupper drains.  Two of them
>> are in the aft steering station which is separated from the rest of the
>> cockpit by a bulkhead.  These two drain exit at or slightly above the
>> waterline when the boat is floating on its lines.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Replacing anodes

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Len, I've considered the same thing and even gone so far as to use a meter
to check continuity between the tank and the anode.  I've never found a
discontinuity.  It goes to my earlier reply that these "sealants" are not
actually supposed to seal pipe joints.  What they do is lubricate the
threads and allow the joint to be tightened further than without.  The seal
ultimately comes from the metal to metal contact between the two pieces.
One could argue that the sealant packs into the interstitial spaces of the
threads and lands - and it may if too much sealant is used or the joint is
not tightened enough - however, a leak tight connection is almost always
achievable without lubricant or with even the lightest weight lubricant.
It is also within reason to argue that certain lubricants/sealants
limit/eliminate corrosion and thus facilitate removal of the fitting in the
future.

As stated before, I've had more fittings leak because of too much
sealant/Teflon tape then because of too little.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 11:28 AM Len Mitchell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

> Just thinking about the replies, the threads are tapered so that will help
> seal the connection. I have had success with tape and liquid pipe thread
> sealant on water heaters before but do anodes have to be electrically
> grounded or connected to the surrounding metal? If the answer is yes, is
> there a dialectic sealant? Len
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List Replacing anodes

[Len Mitchell via CnC-List]

Just thinking about the replies, the threads are tapered so that will help seal 
the connection. I have had success with tape and liquid pipe thread sealant on 
water heaters before but do anodes have to be electrically grounded or 
connected to the surrounding metal? If the answer is yes, is there a dialectic 
sealant? Len

Sent from my iPad
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Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

AND only when healed (if both the cockpit drains and the through hulls were 
below the water line when level, you would have water in the cockpit all the 
time).

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 15:02
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil Andersen ; Garry Cross
Subject: Re: Stus-List Cockpit scupper drains

The issue is when the cockpit holes AND the thru-hulls are both below the line.

Neil
1982 C 32 FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


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