Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

Still learning the big boat.  Non - spin.We'll be there for oriental cup in 
September Jim SchwartzSEA YA!38 landfall Washington nc Sent from my Verizon, 
Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: John Conklin  
Date: 6/11/19  10:51 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: detroito91 
 Subject: RE: Stus-List PHRF Racing 

 
Bummer ! Good luck out there this weekend  Jim !!  You doing Spin Class?

Lets go with the Oriental Cup plan and see who we can round up ! I know of room 
free dockage  for at least 2 CB boats 32-37 w  5ft draft  and right next to my 
house!!
Rick,  I know it’s a long shot but  I could  use 1 crew this Saturday PHRF 
series !!  
 
John Conklin
S/V Halcyon 

From: detroito91 via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: detroito91
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

 
Glad you told me rick.

I'll scratch that one off.


Tex is sailing with me this weekend in the ocracoke 


HAPPY  B'DAY  RICK


Jim Schwartz 


SEA YA !


38 landfall 


Washington nc 


 


 


 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



 



 Original message 


From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 



Date: 6/11/19 10:13 PM (GMT-05:00)



To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 


Cc: Rick Brass 



Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing



 



Unfortunately, Jim Schwartz (Sea Ya, LF38) and I - and maybe Tex Melton (35’ 
Edge) - will be doing a delivery during the Dragon’s Breath. But I would
 definitely be interested in doing a mid-Atlantic Rendezvous for the Oriental 
Cup in September.
 
 
 
Rick Brass
Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47
la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225
Washington, NC
 
 
 


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of John Conklin via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John Conklin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing


 
James That would be amazing !!  There are several others C  local in 
Oriental  as well that I know prob would not race However….
We could  have us a mini Rendezvous! I have a land base home I am willing to 
share as well, and to make it worth while and to go with the beer ! How’s about 
some  Woodfired Pizza
 from the  outdoor oven ?    its what I do !
www.flirtingwithfire.net 
Just a thought…..
 
John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
 


 
 

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Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Bummer ! Good luck out there this weekend  Jim !!  You doing Spin Class?
Lets go with the Oriental Cup plan and see who we can round up ! I know of room 
free dockage  for at least 2 CB boats 32-37 w  5ft draft  and right next to my 
house!!
Rick,  I know it’s a long shot but  I could  use 1 crew this Saturday PHRF 
series !!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
From: detroito91 via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: detroito91
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

Glad you told me rick.
I'll scratch that one off.
Tex is sailing with me this weekend in the ocracoke
HAPPY  B'DAY  RICK
Jim Schwartz
SEA YA !
38 landfall
Washington nc



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
Date: 6/11/19 10:13 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rick Brass 
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

Unfortunately, Jim Schwartz (Sea Ya, LF38) and I - and maybe Tex Melton (35’ 
Edge) - will be doing a delivery during the Dragon’s Breath. But I would 
definitely be interested in doing a mid-Atlantic Rendezvous for the Oriental 
Cup in September.



Rick Brass
Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47
la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225
Washington, NC



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Conklin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John Conklin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

James That would be amazing !!  There are several others C  local in 
Oriental  as well that I know prob would not race However….
We could  have us a mini Rendezvous! I have a land base home I am willing to 
share as well, and to make it worth while and to go with the beer ! How’s about 
some  Woodfired Pizza from the  outdoor oven ?    its what I do ! 
www.flirtingwithfire.net
Just a thought…..

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon



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Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

Glad you told me rick.I'll scratch that one off.Tex is sailing with me this 
weekend in the ocracoke HAPPY  B'DAY  RICKJim Schwartz SEA YA !38 landfall 
Washington nc Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
 Date: 6/11/19  10:13 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List PHRF Racing Unfortunately, Jim Schwartz (Sea Ya, LF38) and I - and 
maybe Tex Melton (35’ Edge) - will be doing a delivery during the Dragon’s 
Breath. But I would definitely be interested in doing a mid-Atlantic Rendezvous 
for the Oriental Cup in September.   Rick BrassImzadi  C 38 mk2 #47la Belle 
Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225Washington, NC   From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Conklin via 
CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:58 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: John 
Conklin Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing James That 
would be amazing !!  There are several others C  local in Oriental  as well 
that I know prob would not race However….We could  have us a mini Rendezvous! I 
have a land base home I am willing to share as well, and to make it worth while 
and to go with the beer ! How’s about some  Woodfired Pizza from the  outdoor 
oven ?    its what I do ! www.flirtingwithfire.net Just a thought….. John 
ConklinS/V Halcyon  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Unfortunately, Jim Schwartz (Sea Ya, LF38) and I - and maybe Tex Melton (35’ 
Edge) - will be doing a delivery during the Dragon’s Breath. But I would 
definitely be interested in doing a mid-Atlantic Rendezvous for the Oriental 
Cup in September.

 

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Conklin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:58 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John Conklin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

 

James That would be amazing !!  There are several others C  local in 
Oriental  as well that I know prob would not race However….

We could  have us a mini Rendezvous! I have a land base home I am willing to 
share as well, and to make it worth while and to go with the beer ! How’s about 
some  Woodfired Pizza from the  outdoor oven ?    its what I do ! 
www.flirtingwithfire.net   

Just a thought…..

 

John Conklin

S/V Halcyon

 

 

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

What ratings do ya'll carry?Rick and I are planning to sail the dragon's breath 
regatta. That gives 2 more c'sJim Schwartz SEA YA!38 landfall Washington nc 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: james via CnC-List 
 Date: 6/11/19  5:13 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: John Conklin 
via CnC-List  Cc: james  Subject: 
Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing 
John,
You are tempting me to come out of retirement! With you, Charlie,
  Mark and maybe get Rick Brass to come down from Washington, we
  could have a 5 boat C class. Except for Charlie, we all have
  very similar PHRF ratings! I won't make any promises, "life" is
  giving us some challenges these days
James Taylor
Delaney, 1976 C 38
Oriental, NC




On 6/11/2019 3:25 PM, John Conklin via
  CnC-List wrote:


  
  
Charlie,
  
  
Sounds as though I have moved into your slot in Oriental. Oh yes
The etchells and j24 are still here! :)

  
  
I don't have the rating you do with my 37,  but yes we are
generally always first to the weather Mark! Last week on the
down wind leg same thing you mention in 4-knots and Mr Tartan
was gaining til we were able to get the whisker pole worked out,
then good bye!  Favorable shift and 14 knots! made for an upwind
finish from Adams creek to Oriental1 and we clobbered them by
many many minutes.

  
  
Win loose or draw, crazy ratings or not,  I plan to be out there
having fun (as long as wind holds) under 4-5  it's power boat to
New Bern for lunch! :)
  
  
Mark B  said he was doing Dragons Breath Regatta this year, and
I plan to be out there as  well.  Would be great if you can join
in and have Nice C fleet ( well at least 3-4) on the start
line !

  
  
Then I can get some nice pictures from astern of you guys under
sail! 

  
  
Ciao!!
  
  
John Conklin
  
  
S/V Halcyon 

  
  

  
John Conklin
  
  
South East Sales and Business Development
  
  
cel 301-412-8991
  
  
j.conk...@marraforni.com
  
  
www.marraforni.com

  
  

  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

James That would be amazing !!  There are several others C  local in 
Oriental  as well that I know prob would not race However….
We could  have us a mini Rendezvous! I have a land base home I am willing to 
share as well, and to make it worth while and to go with the beer ! How’s about 
some  Woodfired Pizza from the  outdoor oven ?    its what I do ! 
www.flirtingwithfire.net
Just a thought…..

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon


From: CnC-List  on behalf of james via CnC-List 

Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 5:13:35 PM
To: John Conklin via CnC-List
Cc: james
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing


John,

You are tempting me to come out of retirement! With you, Charlie, Mark and 
maybe get Rick Brass to come down from Washington, we could have a 5 boat C 
class. Except for Charlie, we all have very similar PHRF ratings! I won't make 
any promises, "life" is giving us some challenges these days

James Taylor

Delaney, 1976 C 38

Oriental, NC



On 6/11/2019 3:25 PM, John Conklin via CnC-List wrote:
Charlie,
Sounds as though I have moved into your slot in Oriental. Oh yes The etchells 
and j24 are still here! :)
I don't have the rating you do with my 37,  but yes we are generally always 
first to the weather Mark! Last week on the down wind leg same thing you 
mention in 4-knots and Mr Tartan was gaining til we were able to get the 
whisker pole worked out, then good bye!  Favorable shift and 14 knots! made for 
an upwind finish from Adams creek to Oriental1 and we clobbered them by many 
many minutes.
Win loose or draw, crazy ratings or not,  I plan to be out there having fun (as 
long as wind holds) under 4-5  it's power boat to New Bern for lunch! :)
Mark B  said he was doing Dragons Breath Regatta this year, and I plan to be 
out there as  well.  Would be great if you can join in and have Nice C fleet 
( well at least 3-4) on the start line !
Then I can get some nice pictures from astern of you guys under sail!

Ciao!!
John Conklin
S/V Halcyon

John Conklin
South East Sales and Business Development
cel 301-412-8991
j.conk...@marraforni.com
www.marraforni.com



___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Offshore Trip to South Puget Sound

[David Castor via CnC-List]

Kevin,

Were you able to (or choose to) sail while headed up WA coast?  Wind is
generally out of the north.

Also how far off the coast did you go and any issues with crab pots?
Recommendation that we got was to follow the 50 fathom line.  But still saw
pot floats.

Congrats on your voyage.

Dave Castor
Port Angeles, WA

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:21 AM Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> C Owners,
> Below is an email I sent to friends and sailors about my recent single
> handed trip from Hood River, Oregon to Olympia, Washington. As the crow
> flies it is less than 200 miles, but on the water it is up around 550
> nautical miles. Read below and see the link to my custom lee clothes on the
> starboard settee.
> Cheers,
> Kevin
>
> Sailors and Friends,
> Last week I successfully delivered our boat from Hood River, Oregon to
> Olympia, Washington. And as Lisa said, "The only thing that got hurt was
> your lip." (It split from sunburn and salt spray.)
> The 550 or so single handed miles by myself on 'Osprey' was quite a bit
> work, but went very well. The leg from the Columbia Bar to Neah Bay was my
> first solo offshore sail and was completed with no drama. Here were the
> legs:
>
> 0. Hood River to Ilwaco, Washington - ~165miles, done Memorial Day Weekend
>
>
>1. Ilwaco, Wa(Columbia River Bar) to Neah Bay, Wa - 187 nautical miles
>/ ~36hrs, June 2nd,3rd
>2. Neah Bay to Sequim, Wa - 75 miles / ~11 hrs.  June 4th (very quick
>with tail wind and flood tide)
>3. Sequim, Wa to Bainbridge/Blake Island - 70 nautical miles / 12hrs
>June 5th
>4. Blake Island to Olymipia, Wa - 45 nautical miles, 10hrs June 6th
>
>
>- Bus / Uber to home at 11pm June 6th and at work Friday 6/7.
>
>
> Here's what worked or otherwise:
>
>- *My wife*- Lisa took care of the boys without complaint during last
>weekend and the better part of last week. Getting permission to sail alone,
>15-20 miles offshore into the Pacific, on a small sailboat, for round the
>clock sailing for the better part of two days, is not something most people
>do every day. She has faith in my skills as a sailor, the safety of our
>boat, and a reasonable tolerance for risk. Nothing is possible without her.
>- *My project team- *Filled in for me when I was gone for 4 days last
>week. Given the stage in construction on our building and project dynamics,
>it was important someone or multiple people be on site while I was gone.
>Allen and Michael pitched in and it was appreciated.
>- *Columbia River Bar -* I crossed at slack tide at the start of an
>ebb. I actually began my crossing early so to be sure I was safely over the
>bar before the ebb gained momentum. It was a little bumpy, but not
>dramatic.
>- *Tow Lanes - *A somewhat common strategy, when not racing and
>heading up to Cape Flattery, is to take the commercial tow lanes. This in
>order to reduce the risk of snagging a crab pot. I followed this strategy
>and went out from the bar to the summer tow lanes, ~15 miles offshore. I
>saw very few crab pots the whole trip, but did see ~4 and they made me
>nervous each time.
>- *'Osprey' C 30-2 *Though our boat is tender, she has great
>qualities otherwise and is an extremely well designed boat. She carries
>generous sail for her vintage, is relatively light, and has somewhat
>efficient foils. Despite the constant 15-20 knots of wind close hauled, she
>does not creak or flex audibly like other boats I have been on. The molded
>head liner is silent. Our little Yanmar Diesel operated flawlessly at a
>constant 2800 rpms (3400 continuous rated) for days on end. I change fuel
>filters, belts, and impellers religiously and that seems to do the trick.
>The Yanmar is dead simple and has never let us down. 'Osprey' is an
>excellent boat, but a few more feet would add some speed and accommodate
>the boys a bit more nicely :)
>- *AIS Vesper XB 8000 *- I bought and installed this AIS transceiver
>just before heading offshore. Having an AIS transceiver was a game changer
>over our previous trip,  when we double handed up the coast. In the ~200
>miles up the coast. I did not see anyone that I could not also see on AIS,
>including pleasure craft.  Also Lisa and Dan were able to track me all the
>way up the coast. The AIS repeated seamlessly on the tablet and phone(s) I
>use for navigation and redundancy and the unit is hardwired to an alarm
>buzzer at the nav station with a mute button. It also sends alarms on my
>phone and tablet.  The Vesper app works very well, was intuitive,
>information rich and overall greatly exceeded my expectations. I would
>highly recommend this product and I am extremely happy with the purchase.
>(We do have a small Garmin GIS on board, but we do not use it for
>navigation specifically. We do not have a hardwired chartplotter 

Re: Stus-List Fwd: Offshore Trip to South Puget Sound

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Thanks for sharing, Kevin. Sounds like you had a good trip, and excellent
experience.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 11:21, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> C Owners,
> Below is an email I sent to friends and sailors about my recent single
> handed trip from Hood River, Oregon to Olympia, Washington. As the crow
> flies it is less than 200 miles, but on the water it is up around 550
> nautical miles. Read below and see the link to my custom lee clothes on the
> starboard settee.
> Cheers,
> Kevin
>
> Sailors and Friends,
> Last week I successfully delivered our boat from Hood River, Oregon to
> Olympia, Washington. And as Lisa said, "The only thing that got hurt was
> your lip." (It split from sunburn and salt spray.)
> The 550 or so single handed miles by myself on 'Osprey' was quite a bit
> work, but went very well. The leg from the Columbia Bar to Neah Bay was my
> first solo offshore sail and was completed with no drama. Here were the
> legs:
>
> 0. Hood River to Ilwaco, Washington - ~165miles, done Memorial Day Weekend
>
>
>1. Ilwaco, Wa(Columbia River Bar) to Neah Bay, Wa - 187 nautical miles
>/ ~36hrs, June 2nd,3rd
>2. Neah Bay to Sequim, Wa - 75 miles / ~11 hrs.  June 4th (very quick
>with tail wind and flood tide)
>3. Sequim, Wa to Bainbridge/Blake Island - 70 nautical miles / 12hrs
>June 5th
>4. Blake Island to Olymipia, Wa - 45 nautical miles, 10hrs June 6th
>
>
>- Bus / Uber to home at 11pm June 6th and at work Friday 6/7.
>
>
> Here's what worked or otherwise:
>
>- *My wife*- Lisa took care of the boys without complaint during last
>weekend and the better part of last week. Getting permission to sail alone,
>15-20 miles offshore into the Pacific, on a small sailboat, for round the
>clock sailing for the better part of two days, is not something most people
>do every day. She has faith in my skills as a sailor, the safety of our
>boat, and a reasonable tolerance for risk. Nothing is possible without her.
>- *My project team- *Filled in for me when I was gone for 4 days last
>week. Given the stage in construction on our building and project dynamics,
>it was important someone or multiple people be on site while I was gone.
>Allen and Michael pitched in and it was appreciated.
>- *Columbia River Bar -* I crossed at slack tide at the start of an
>ebb. I actually began my crossing early so to be sure I was safely over the
>bar before the ebb gained momentum. It was a little bumpy, but not
>dramatic.
>- *Tow Lanes - *A somewhat common strategy, when not racing and
>heading up to Cape Flattery, is to take the commercial tow lanes. This in
>order to reduce the risk of snagging a crab pot. I followed this strategy
>and went out from the bar to the summer tow lanes, ~15 miles offshore. I
>saw very few crab pots the whole trip, but did see ~4 and they made me
>nervous each time.
>- *'Osprey' C 30-2 *Though our boat is tender, she has great
>qualities otherwise and is an extremely well designed boat. She carries
>generous sail for her vintage, is relatively light, and has somewhat
>efficient foils. Despite the constant 15-20 knots of wind close hauled, she
>does not creak or flex audibly like other boats I have been on. The molded
>head liner is silent. Our little Yanmar Diesel operated flawlessly at a
>constant 2800 rpms (3400 continuous rated) for days on end. I change fuel
>filters, belts, and impellers religiously and that seems to do the trick.
>The Yanmar is dead simple and has never let us down. 'Osprey' is an
>excellent boat, but a few more feet would add some speed and accommodate
>the boys a bit more nicely :)
>- *AIS Vesper XB 8000 *- I bought and installed this AIS transceiver
>just before heading offshore. Having an AIS transceiver was a game changer
>over our previous trip,  when we double handed up the coast. In the ~200
>miles up the coast. I did not see anyone that I could not also see on AIS,
>including pleasure craft.  Also Lisa and Dan were able to track me all the
>way up the coast. The AIS repeated seamlessly on the tablet and phone(s) I
>use for navigation and redundancy and the unit is hardwired to an alarm
>buzzer at the nav station with a mute button. It also sends alarms on my
>phone and tablet.  The Vesper app works very well, was intuitive,
>information rich and overall greatly exceeded my expectations. I would
>highly recommend this product and I am extremely happy with the purchase.
>(We do have a small Garmin GIS on board, but we do not use it for
>navigation specifically. We do not have a hardwired chartplotter or MFD.)
>- *Scopolamine Patch - *I can get sea sick if I am not extremely
>disciplined about going below decks or in rough seas. Our boat is on the
>smaller side and is 

Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[james via CnC-List]

John,

You are tempting me to come out of retirement! With you, Charlie, Mark 
and maybe get Rick Brass to come down from Washington, we could have a 5 
boat C class. Except for Charlie, we all have very similar PHRF 
ratings! I won't make any promises, "life" is giving us some challenges 
these days


James Taylor

Delaney, 1976 C 38

Oriental, NC



On 6/11/2019 3:25 PM, John Conklin via CnC-List wrote:

Charlie,
Sounds as though I have moved into your slot in Oriental. Oh yes The 
etchells and j24 are still here! :)
I don't have the rating you do with my 37,  but yes we are generally 
always first to the weather Mark! Last week on the down wind leg same 
thing you mention in 4-knots and Mr Tartan was gaining til we were 
able to get the whisker pole worked out, then good bye!  Favorable 
shift and 14 knots! made for an upwind finish from Adams creek to 
Oriental1 and we clobbered them by many many minutes.
Win loose or draw, crazy ratings or not,  I plan to be out there 
having fun (as long as wind holds) under 4-5  it's power boat to New 
Bern for lunch! :)
Mark B  said he was doing Dragons Breath Regatta this year, and I plan 
to be out there as  well.  Would be great if you can join in and have 
Nice C fleet ( well at least 3-4) on the start line !

Then I can get some nice pictures from astern of you guys under sail!

Ciao!!
John Conklin
S/V Halcyon

John Conklin
South East Sales and Business Development
cel 301-412-8991
j.conk...@marraforni.com
www.marraforni.com 



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

[bwhitmore via CnC-List]

Ok, being the frugal *ahem* I am, I can think of  a number of solutions 
including cutting your own leather, cutting thick but flexible highly UV 
resistant plastic or even cutting and taping the highly abrasion resistant 
white ribbed hose like West Marine sells for through hulls and waste hose.  And 
of course the fire hose is yet another example.Perhaps I'm showing my dislike 
of marine markup...Bruce Whitmore 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Sent from my 
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 Date: 6/11/19  1:48 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Marek Dziedzic  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Spreader boots. 


Have you tried using rigging tape? It works quite well.
 
Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON


 

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List

Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:50
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.


 



It seems like I got some from a small Canadian site on EBay once, they were 
Clam-Style, White Plastisol.  You could trim them to fit.
Kind of like Taylor Made style.
 

Bill Coleman
Erie, PA

 


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Daniel Cormier via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Daniel Cormier
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.


 
Has anyone tried using fire hose or Something similar? I have triple spreaders 
and some of mine have three holes and are needing replacement.

 


Dan Cormier


Breakaweigh


C


Halifax, NS

Sent from my iPhone



On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List 
 wrote:



I bought from West Marine last year for my 29MK II- holding up nicely.

Cheers 

Tom


 




On Jun 10, 2019, at 2:59 PM, David Risch via CnC-List  
wrote:



West marine has them.  But the prettier and more durable elk-hide boots are 
available from Edson
 
David F. Risch
1981 40-2
Gulf Stream Associates
(401) 419-4650
 
From: CnC-List 
On Behalf Of John McLaughlin via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 2:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: johnr...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spreader boots.
 
I need to get spreader boots for a C 29-2.
Not sure what size or type I should get or from whom to purchase. 
John McLaughlin 
Newburgh, NY
John McLaughlin




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  

https://www.paypal.me/stumurray







___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  

https://www.paypal.me/stumurray







___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

As i know the C 30 MKI your phrf at 180 is fair. Don’t know about the
other boats you typically race against but 180 is good and especially if it
includes spin and folding prop. Max headsail use LP150 for this but in
light air the boat can easily handle a 160/170 probably with a
corresponding rating change. If you care about handicap you will probably
stretch your budget for the best of sails and crew and keep that bottom
clean and smooth. It will take at least 4 crew including helmsman to do
spinnaker races efficiently.  Get her in the “grove”and go fast every
tack.  Best of luck to you because luck will probably account for at least
50 percent or more of how well you do in most races

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 4:14 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks y’all for your interesting comments on this.
>
> I got my new rating yesterday and it came back 180.  The handicapper wrote
> in the “notes and clarifications” section of my RSA’s PHRF certificate form
> the following: "There are no comparables listed in US Sailing for this
> model of boat in the Rocky Mountain Region. This is a compromise between
> lake sailing ratings of 174 at Lake Norman, Oklahoma and Texoma, TX; and
> the previous rating for this boat of 186/198. Mitigating factors are: 1.
> +10% above base weight, even when empty; 2. The lighter air pressure at
> altitude which makes it even more difficult to move a heavy boat.”
>
> The 10% over base weight remark was from a discussion she and I had on
> “brochure weight” (8000 lbs for a 30 MK I as on sailboatdata.com) versus
> actual weight.  I’ve actually weighed my boat on a truck scale, and weighed
> all her gear.  I calculate she weighs about 8682 pounds with empty tanks
> and no gear aboard.  So with full fuel tank, anchor & rode, sails, etc.,
> her as-raced weight is closer to 9000 pounds before crew weight.  According
> to the Schell regression formula, that 1000-pound difference in brochure
> versus actual weight translates to at least six seconds difference in
> rating, so the handicapper gave that to me.
>
> In my RSA we don’t really have the local politics as badly as in some
> other areas apparently.  The handicapping committee is one volunteer, and
> the position turns over every few years.  I think most of our handicappers
> have tried to do a reasonably fair job with the information they have
> available.  And none of them have been from the sailing industry.
>
> That said, there are a couple boats in my fleet in my club that seem to
> have gift ratings.  There’s a Catalina 25 to which I give 43 sec/nm, and a
> Cal 22 to which I give 48 sec/nm.  In light air with everybody executing
> well, I might not beat them uncorrected, let alone corrected.  Both boats
> seem to be rated at least 12 seconds slower in my RSA than in most others
> RSAs in the US, and I’m sure their owners would strongly resist lowering
> their ratings, because they win a lot on corrected time.  I had a
> half-dozen races last year where I took line honors and they corrected over
> me.
>
> My main competition is a pair of Catalina 27s and a Ranger 26, all
> well-sailed.  In heavy air the Ranger 26 can’t stay in control; he has to
> depower way before I do.  A couple times a season when the wind is really
> up, I’ll have the joy of beating the fleet by three minutes in a half-hour
> race.  But that’s the exception to the rule where I sail.  And
> unfortunately for me the Ranger 26’s rating didn’t change this year,
> whereas mine did - six seconds faster.
>
> I accept that PHRF is an imperfect system.  At the end of the day, I’m out
> there on Wednesday nights to have fun.  That said, I like the competition,
> and I’d like it to be as fair as possible.
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
> S/V Grenadine
> C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:27 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Randy
>
>
>
> When comparing boats across different areas make sure you look at other
> boats in those areas as well.  Pacific NW tends to rate most of their fleet
> 9 – 12 sec/mile slower than most other areas … not just the C 30.
>
>
>
> Also look at the prevailing wind conditions in the areas.  Northern
> California is known to be windy whereas LI Sound is known for fairly light
> winds.  A C 30-1 would perform much better in the windier areas and
> should have a faster rating in Northern California than in LIS for example.
>
>
>
> Yes PHRF sucks.  However all of the systems suck.  Some suck worse than
> others.  ORR, IMS, IRC, etc …require measurements of each boat.  It is
> difficult to find a measurer and quite expensive to get a boat measured.
> However a measurement rule seems to be a lot fairer for point to point
> distance racing than a single number system.  You can have a race like
> Marblehead to Halifax that is hundreds of miles of mostly reaching.  In
> that sort of race a big long waterline boat that is horrible at W/L short
> leg races will tend to do very 

Re: Stus-List PHRF Racing

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Charlie,
Sounds as though I have moved into your slot in Oriental. Oh yes The etchells 
and j24 are still here! :)
I don't have the rating you do with my 37,  but yes we are generally always 
first to the weather Mark! Last week on the down wind leg same thing you 
mention in 4-knots and Mr Tartan was gaining til we were able to get the 
whisker pole worked out, then good bye!  Favorable shift and 14 knots! made for 
an upwind finish from Adams creek to Oriental1 and we clobbered them by many 
many minutes.
Win loose or draw, crazy ratings or not,  I plan to be out there having fun (as 
long as wind holds) under 4-5  it's power boat to New Bern for lunch! :)
Mark B  said he was doing Dragons Breath Regatta this year, and I plan to be 
out there as  well.  Would be great if you can join in and have Nice C fleet 
( well at least 3-4) on the start line !
Then I can get some nice pictures from astern of you guys under sail!

Ciao!!
John Conklin
S/V Halcyon

John Conklin
South East Sales and Business Development
cel 301-412-8991
j.conk...@marraforni.com
www.marraforni.com


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Charlie Nelson via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 1:41:59 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List PHRF Racing

I have felt your pain Chuck!

I used to race regularly in a non-spin fleet of racer-cruisers with ratings 
similar to mine out of Oriental, NC albeit with a crew of 4+. When we started 
racing my 36XL/kcb with a 7.25 ' draft would usually be the first to the 
weather mark on round the buoy races.

Downwind, every one of them would pass me but if there was another upwind leg, 
I would usually catch them all or at least get back into the race. After a 
season or two, my crew and I learned how to use our whisker pole better (mostly 
by watching the others pass us downwind!) and eventually I was able to not have 
any of my competitors pass me downwind--I didn't gain on them but I kept up 
with them.

Took a couple of seasons but I eventually took first place for the series of 
races, only rarely being corrected over. Nothing focuses the mind like being 
passed downwind by another, similar boat.

Eventually my competitors retired, moved away, etc. and I was left racing 
against Etchells (same PHRF rating) or J or Moore 24s with ratings +60 above 
mine so in our usual light airs, the fun was gone--my 13,500 lbs needs at least 
8 knots to have a chance against such light weights and getting 8 knots + of 
wind in the NC summer in the Neuse River is not very likely.

Have moved on to mostly full-crew kite racing (CRW, local races, etc.) and 
still suffer in light airs but "...it is what it is..." but with my mast-head 
kite up in a breeze, racing is never boring!!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C 36 XL/kcb




-Original Message-
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2019 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

FWIW, stating what I learned.  The PHRF is a rating based on projected boat 
speeds in multiple wind speeds on every angle of the wind.  They use one number 
for a typical boat in all wind and sea conditions.  This works OK for triangle 
races which provide upwind, reaching, downwind legs and if a season of races 
offers low wind and high wind races, the ratings are fair.  My boat excels 
upwind and we did well in triangle races jib and main, held our own reaching, 
and suffered a little downwind without a spinnaker.

More recently I started racing in distance races and the majority have had a 
short leg upwind to allow a clean start, and then a turn downwind for 90% of 
the race.  I was racing solo against crewed boats and after a timid start 
because I have to keep clear, I'll typically pass four to five boats going the 
30 minutes upwind.  Then they pass me with their genekers or spinnakers on the 
4 hour downwind course to the finish.  One race turned back upwind at the 
finish and I was able to pass a boat on that final leg so I wasn't the last of 
60 boats across the line.  I have flown my spinnaker alone, but not during a 
race yet.  I'm working on that.

All in all, racing PHRF made us better sailors and I pushed some other skippers 
and they got better too so we all benefited.

Chuck S, Resolute, 1990 C 34R


On June 11, 2019 at 10:49 AM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
 wrote:

Correct (as usual) about sport boats.  It’s hard to beat a boat capable of 
doing sport-boat speeds in moderate to heavy air.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:18 AM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

The imperfections of handicap systems have been discussed a lot.  You just have 
to accept them with all their warts.

One protection against local politics is to race a boat which has several 

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks y’all for your interesting comments on this.

I got my new rating yesterday and it came back 180.  The handicapper wrote in 
the “notes and clarifications” section of my RSA’s PHRF certificate form the 
following: "There are no comparables listed in US Sailing for this model of 
boat in the Rocky Mountain Region. This is a compromise between lake sailing 
ratings of 174 at Lake Norman, Oklahoma and Texoma, TX; and the previous rating 
for this boat of 186/198. Mitigating factors are: 1. +10% above base weight, 
even when empty; 2. The lighter air pressure at altitude which makes it even 
more difficult to move a heavy boat.”

The 10% over base weight remark was from a discussion she and I had on 
“brochure weight” (8000 lbs for a 30 MK I as on sailboatdata.com 
) versus actual weight.  I’ve actually weighed my 
boat on a truck scale, and weighed all her gear.  I calculate she weighs about 
8682 pounds with empty tanks and no gear aboard.  So with full fuel tank, 
anchor & rode, sails, etc., her as-raced weight is closer to 9000 pounds before 
crew weight.  According to the Schell regression formula, that 1000-pound 
difference in brochure versus actual weight translates to at least six seconds 
difference in rating, so the handicapper gave that to me.

In my RSA we don’t really have the local politics as badly as in some other 
areas apparently.  The handicapping committee is one volunteer, and the 
position turns over every few years.  I think most of our handicappers have 
tried to do a reasonably fair job with the information they have available.  
And none of them have been from the sailing industry.

That said, there are a couple boats in my fleet in my club that seem to have 
gift ratings.  There’s a Catalina 25 to which I give 43 sec/nm, and a Cal 22 to 
which I give 48 sec/nm.  In light air with everybody executing well, I might 
not beat them uncorrected, let alone corrected.  Both boats seem to be rated at 
least 12 seconds slower in my RSA than in most others RSAs in the US, and I’m 
sure their owners would strongly resist lowering their ratings, because they 
win a lot on corrected time.  I had a half-dozen races last year where I took 
line honors and they corrected over me.

My main competition is a pair of Catalina 27s and a Ranger 26, all well-sailed. 
 In heavy air the Ranger 26 can’t stay in control; he has to depower way before 
I do.  A couple times a season when the wind is really up, I’ll have the joy of 
beating the fleet by three minutes in a half-hour race.  But that’s the 
exception to the rule where I sail.  And unfortunately for me the Ranger 26’s 
rating didn’t change this year, whereas mine did - six seconds faster.

I accept that PHRF is an imperfect system.  At the end of the day, I’m out 
there on Wednesday nights to have fun.  That said, I like the competition, and 
I’d like it to be as fair as possible.

Cheers,
Randy
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:27 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Randy
>  
> When comparing boats across different areas make sure you look at other boats 
> in those areas as well.  Pacific NW tends to rate most of their fleet 9 – 12 
> sec/mile slower than most other areas … not just the C 30.
>  
> Also look at the prevailing wind conditions in the areas.  Northern 
> California is known to be windy whereas LI Sound is known for fairly light 
> winds.  A C 30-1 would perform much better in the windier areas and should 
> have a faster rating in Northern California than in LIS for example.
>  
> Yes PHRF sucks.  However all of the systems suck.  Some suck worse than 
> others.  ORR, IMS, IRC, etc …require measurements of each boat.  It is 
> difficult to find a measurer and quite expensive to get a boat measured.  
> However a measurement rule seems to be a lot fairer for point to point 
> distance racing than a single number system.  You can have a race like 
> Marblehead to Halifax that is hundreds of miles of mostly reaching.  In that 
> sort of race a big long waterline boat that is horrible at W/L short leg 
> races will tend to do very well as it would be on its best point of sail most 
> of the race and therefore outsail its handicap under many systems.
>  
> For a typical small club race PHRF has one very redeeming feature.  It is 
> simple to use and easy to find existing handicaps for most production boats 
> that have been around for any length of time.  The ORR-EZ system that has 
> been discussed gives me a first impression that the Race Committee would have 
> more work to do in implementing on a race by race basis and would need to be 
> knowledgeable and could implement the incorrect number for a given race 
> condition.  Also on a race course at least with PHRF or any other single 
> number system as a sailor I know how much time I owe any other boat at any 
> given time during a race.  Multi number systems this would be much more 
> difficult
>  
> The only 

Stus-List Fwd: Offshore Trip to South Puget Sound

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

C Owners,
Below is an email I sent to friends and sailors about my recent single
handed trip from Hood River, Oregon to Olympia, Washington. As the crow
flies it is less than 200 miles, but on the water it is up around 550
nautical miles. Read below and see the link to my custom lee clothes on the
starboard settee.
Cheers,
Kevin

Sailors and Friends,
Last week I successfully delivered our boat from Hood River, Oregon to
Olympia, Washington. And as Lisa said, "The only thing that got hurt was
your lip." (It split from sunburn and salt spray.)
The 550 or so single handed miles by myself on 'Osprey' was quite a bit
work, but went very well. The leg from the Columbia Bar to Neah Bay was my
first solo offshore sail and was completed with no drama. Here were the
legs:

0. Hood River to Ilwaco, Washington - ~165miles, done Memorial Day Weekend


   1. Ilwaco, Wa(Columbia River Bar) to Neah Bay, Wa - 187 nautical miles /
   ~36hrs, June 2nd,3rd
   2. Neah Bay to Sequim, Wa - 75 miles / ~11 hrs.  June 4th (very quick
   with tail wind and flood tide)
   3. Sequim, Wa to Bainbridge/Blake Island - 70 nautical miles / 12hrs
   June 5th
   4. Blake Island to Olymipia, Wa - 45 nautical miles, 10hrs June 6th


   - Bus / Uber to home at 11pm June 6th and at work Friday 6/7.


Here's what worked or otherwise:

   - *My wife*- Lisa took care of the boys without complaint during last
   weekend and the better part of last week. Getting permission to sail alone,
   15-20 miles offshore into the Pacific, on a small sailboat, for round the
   clock sailing for the better part of two days, is not something most people
   do every day. She has faith in my skills as a sailor, the safety of our
   boat, and a reasonable tolerance for risk. Nothing is possible without her.
   - *My project team- *Filled in for me when I was gone for 4 days last
   week. Given the stage in construction on our building and project dynamics,
   it was important someone or multiple people be on site while I was gone.
   Allen and Michael pitched in and it was appreciated.
   - *Columbia River Bar -* I crossed at slack tide at the start of an ebb.
   I actually began my crossing early so to be sure I was safely over the bar
   before the ebb gained momentum. It was a little bumpy, but not dramatic.
   - *Tow Lanes - *A somewhat common strategy, when not racing and heading
   up to Cape Flattery, is to take the commercial tow lanes. This in order to
   reduce the risk of snagging a crab pot. I followed this strategy and went
   out from the bar to the summer tow lanes, ~15 miles offshore. I saw very
   few crab pots the whole trip, but did see ~4 and they made me nervous each
   time.
   - *'Osprey' C 30-2 *Though our boat is tender, she has great qualities
   otherwise and is an extremely well designed boat. She carries generous sail
   for her vintage, is relatively light, and has somewhat efficient foils.
   Despite the constant 15-20 knots of wind close hauled, she does not creak
   or flex audibly like other boats I have been on. The molded head liner is
   silent. Our little Yanmar Diesel operated flawlessly at a constant 2800
   rpms (3400 continuous rated) for days on end. I change fuel filters, belts,
   and impellers religiously and that seems to do the trick. The Yanmar is
   dead simple and has never let us down. 'Osprey' is an excellent boat, but a
   few more feet would add some speed and accommodate the boys a bit more
   nicely :)
   - *AIS Vesper XB 8000 *- I bought and installed this AIS transceiver
   just before heading offshore. Having an AIS transceiver was a game changer
   over our previous trip,  when we double handed up the coast. In the ~200
   miles up the coast. I did not see anyone that I could not also see on AIS,
   including pleasure craft.  Also Lisa and Dan were able to track me all the
   way up the coast. The AIS repeated seamlessly on the tablet and phone(s) I
   use for navigation and redundancy and the unit is hardwired to an alarm
   buzzer at the nav station with a mute button. It also sends alarms on my
   phone and tablet.  The Vesper app works very well, was intuitive,
   information rich and overall greatly exceeded my expectations. I would
   highly recommend this product and I am extremely happy with the purchase.
   (We do have a small Garmin GIS on board, but we do not use it for
   navigation specifically. We do not have a hardwired chartplotter or MFD.)
   - *Scopolamine Patch - *I can get sea sick if I am not extremely
   disciplined about going below decks or in rough seas. Our boat is on the
   smaller side and is pretty tender. Furthermore, the wind a steady 15-20
   knts and seas (though not directly on the nose) permitted only close hauled
   motor sailing. Predictably this meant a fair amount of slamming, water on
   the decks, and spray in the cockpit. Not 'green water', but a very lively
   motion for sure. I got sick 3 times, each time when coming back up on deck
   from below. Much of the 

Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

[Dan via CnC-List]

Thanks, yes, rigging tape is my backup - especially the rubber-y stuff.

Dan

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 2:49 PM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Have you tried using rigging tape? It works quite well.
>
> Marek
> 1994 C270 Legato
> Ottawa, ON
>
> *From:* Bill Coleman via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:50
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Bill Coleman
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.
>
>
> It seems like I got some from a small Canadian site on EBay once, they
> were Clam-Style, White Plastisol.  You could trim them to fit.
>
> Kind of like Taylor Made style.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> Erie, PA[image: animated_favicon1]
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Daniel
> Cormier via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:20 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Daniel Cormier
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.
>
>
>
> Has anyone tried using fire hose or Something similar? I have triple
> spreaders and some of mine have three holes and are needing replacement.
>
>
>
> Dan Cormier
>
> Breakaweigh
>
> C
>
> Halifax, NS
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I bought from West Marine last year for my 29MK II- holding up nicely.
> Cheers
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2019, at 2:59 PM, David Risch via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> West marine has them.  But the prettier and more durable elk-hide boots
> are available from Edson
>
>
>
> *David F. Risch*
>
> *1981 40-2*
>
> *Gulf Stream Associates*
>
> *(401) 419-4650*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *John
> McLaughlin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2019 2:05 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* johnr...@aol.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List Spreader boots.
>
>
>
> I need to get spreader boots for a C 29-2.
>
> Not sure what size or type I should get or from whom to purchase.
>
> John McLaughlin
> Newburgh, NY
>
> John McLaughlin
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Have you tried using rigging tape? It works quite well.

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:50
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

It seems like I got some from a small Canadian site on EBay once, they were 
Clam-Style, White Plastisol.  You could trim them to fit.
Kind of like Taylor Made style.

Bill Coleman
Erie, PA[animated_favicon1]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Daniel 
Cormier via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Daniel Cormier
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

Has anyone tried using fire hose or Something similar? I have triple spreaders 
and some of mine have three holes and are needing replacement.

Dan Cormier
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax, NS
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List 
 wrote:
I bought from West Marine last year for my 29MK II- holding up nicely.
Cheers
Tom


On Jun 10, 2019, at 2:59 PM, David Risch via CnC-List  
wrote:
West marine has them.  But the prettier and more durable elk-hide boots are 
available from Edson

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
Gulf Stream Associates
(401) 419-4650

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of John McLaughlin via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 2:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: johnr...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spreader boots.


I need to get spreader boots for a C 29-2.

Not sure what size or type I should get or from whom to purchase.

John McLaughlin
Newburgh, NY

John McLaughlin
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Stus-List PHRF Racing

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

I have felt your pain Chuck! 
I used to race regularly in a non-spin fleet of racer-cruisers with ratings 
similar to mine out of Oriental, NC albeit with a crew of 4+. When we started 
racing my 36XL/kcb with a 7.25 ' draft would usually be the first to the 
weather mark on round the buoy races. 
Downwind, every one of them would pass me but if there was another upwind leg, 
I would usually catch them all or at least get back into the race. After a 
season or two, my crew and I learned how to use our whisker pole better (mostly 
by watching the others pass us downwind!) and eventually I was able to not have 
any of my competitors pass me downwind--I didn't gain on them but I kept up 
with them. 
Took a couple of seasons but I eventually took first place for the series of 
races, only rarely being corrected over. Nothing focuses the mind like being 
passed downwind by another, similar boat. 
Eventually my competitors retired, moved away, etc. and I was left racing 
against Etchells (same PHRF rating) or J or Moore 24s with ratings +60 above 
mine so in our usual light airs, the fun was gone--my 13,500 lbs needs at least 
8 knots to have a chance against such light weights and getting 8 knots + of 
wind in the NC summer in the Neuse River is not very likely.
Have moved on to mostly full-crew kite racing (CRW, local races, etc.) and 
still suffer in light airs but "...it is what it is..." but with my mast-head 
kite up in a breeze, racing is never boring!!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb
  


-Original Message-
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2019 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

FWIW, stating what I learned.  The PHRF is a rating based on projected boat 
speeds in multiple wind speeds on every angle of the wind.  They use one number 
for a typical boat in all wind and sea conditions.  This works OK for triangle 
races which provide upwind, reaching, downwind legs and if a season of races 
offers low wind and high wind races, the ratings are fair.  My boat excels 
upwind and we did well in triangle races jib and main, held our own reaching, 
and suffered a little downwind without a spinnaker.   
More recently I started racing in distance races and the majority have had a 
short leg upwind to allow a clean start, and then a turn downwind for 90% of 
the race.  I was racing solo against crewed boats and after a timid start 
because I have to keep clear, I'll typically pass four to five boats going the 
30 minutes upwind.  Then they pass me with their genekers or spinnakers on the 
4 hour downwind course to the finish.  One race turned back upwind at the 
finish and I was able to pass a boat on that final leg so I wasn't the last of 
60 boats across the line.  I have flown my spinnaker alone, but not during a 
race yet.  I'm working on that.
All in all, racing PHRF made us better sailors and I pushed some other skippers 
and they got better too so we all benefited.
Chuck S, Resolute, 1990 C 34R


On June 11, 2019 at 10:49 AM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
 wrote: 
 
Correct (as usual) about sport boats.  It’s hard to beat a boat capable of 
doing sport-boat speeds in moderate to heavy air. From: Dennis C. via 
CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:18 AMTo: CnClistCc: Dennis C.Subject: 
Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating The imperfections of handicap systems have 
been discussed a lot.  You just have to accept them with all their warts. One 
protection against local politics is to race a boat which has several 
sisterboats.  If your boat is the only one like it in the fleet and you win a 
lot, you probably will be hit.  On the other hand, if there are one or more 
boats like yours in the fleet and the others are not well raced, you have a 
small "buffer" against an adjustment. Another protection is to be a member of 
the club with a local handicapper or a club with clout.  Hence, the politics. 
PHRF (Punishing Hard Racing Folks) is not a perfect system.  On the other hand, 
there are racers who stretch the system.  They'll buy a "sleeper" boat, trick 
it out to the max, win a few races then sell it when the handicappers hit it. 
IMHO, the biggest problem with PHRF is when there is a mixed fleet with sport 
boats and displacement boats.  The system just doesn't have the capability to 
handle the significant differences in performance in varying conditions for 
disparate boat types. Personally, I think the Portsmouth TOT system is better 
than PHRF.  I'm monitoring my area's venture into ORR-EZ. Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 
#83Mandeville, LA On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:56 AM Matthew L. Wolford via 
CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 

What Edd refers to as “corruption” I referred to in my earlier note as “local 
politics.”  In my view Edd is correct – corrupt local politics is probably the 
biggest factor in rating anomalies. From: Edd Schillay via CnC-ListSent: 
Monday, June 10, 2019 4:42 PMTo: 

Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

It seems like I got some from a small Canadian site on EBay once, they were
Clam-Style, White Plastisol.  You could trim them to fit.

Kind of like Taylor Made style.

 

Bill Coleman

Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Cormier via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Daniel Cormier
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

 

Has anyone tried using fire hose or Something similar? I have triple
spreaders and some of mine have three holes and are needing replacement.

 

Dan Cormier

Breakaweigh

C

Halifax, NS

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List
 wrote:

I bought from West Marine last year for my 29MK II- holding up nicely. 
Cheers 

Tom

 


On Jun 10, 2019, at 2:59 PM, David Risch via CnC-List
 wrote:

West marine has them.  But the prettier and more durable elk-hide boots are
available from Edson

 

David F. Risch

1981 40-2

Gulf Stream Associates

(401) 419-4650

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of John McLaughlin
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 2:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: johnr...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Spreader boots.

 

I need to get spreader boots for a C 29-2.

Not sure what size or type I should get or from whom to purchase. 

John McLaughlin 
Newburgh, NY

John McLaughlin

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Spreader boots.

[Daniel Cormier via CnC-List]

Has anyone tried using fire hose or Something similar? I have triple spreaders 
and some of mine have three holes and are needing replacement.

Dan Cormier
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax, NS

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I bought from West Marine last year for my 29MK II- holding up nicely. 
> Cheers 
> Tom
> 
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2019, at 2:59 PM, David Risch via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> West marine has them.  But the prettier and more durable elk-hide boots are 
>> available from Edson
>>  
>> David F. Risch
>> 1981 40-2
>> Gulf Stream Associates
>> (401) 419-4650
>>  
>> From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of John McLaughlin 
>> via CnC-List
>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 2:05 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: johnr...@aol.com
>> Subject: Stus-List Spreader boots.
>>  
>> I need to get spreader boots for a C 29-2.
>> 
>> Not sure what size or type I should get or from whom to purchase.
>> 
>> John McLaughlin 
>> Newburgh, NY
>> 
>> John McLaughlin
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

FWIW, stating what I learned.  The PHRF is a rating based on projected boat 
speeds in multiple wind speeds on every angle of the wind.  They use one number 
for a typical boat in all wind and sea conditions.  This works OK for triangle 
races which provide upwind, reaching, downwind legs and if a season of races 
offers low wind and high wind races, the ratings are fair.  My boat excels 
upwind and we did well in triangle races jib and main, held our own reaching, 
and suffered a little downwind without a spinnaker.   


More recently I started racing in distance races and the majority have had a 
short leg upwind to allow a clean start, and then a turn downwind for 90% of 
the race.  I was racing solo against crewed boats and after a timid start 
because I have to keep clear, I'll typically pass four to five boats going the 
30 minutes upwind.  Then they pass me with their genekers or spinnakers on the 
4 hour downwind course to the finish.  One race turned back upwind at the 
finish and I was able to pass a boat on that final leg so I wasn't the last of 
60 boats across the line.  I have flown my spinnaker alone, but not during a 
race yet.  I'm working on that.


All in all, racing PHRF made us better sailors and I pushed some other skippers 
and they got better too so we all benefited.


Chuck S, Resolute, 1990 C 34R



> On June 11, 2019 at 10:49 AM "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Correct (as usual) about sport boats.  It’s hard to beat a boat capable 
> of doing sport-boat speeds in moderate to heavy air.
>  
> From: Dennis C. via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:18 AM
> To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Dennis C. mailto:capt...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating
>  
> The imperfections of handicap systems have been discussed a lot.  You 
> just have to accept them with all their warts.
>  
> One protection against local politics is to race a boat which has several 
> sisterboats.  If your boat is the only one like it in the fleet and you win a 
> lot, you probably will be hit.  On the other hand, if there are one or more 
> boats like yours in the fleet and the others are not well raced, you have a 
> small "buffer" against an adjustment.
>  
> Another protection is to be a member of the club with a local handicapper 
> or a club with clout.  Hence, the politics.
>  
> PHRF (Punishing Hard Racing Folks) is not a perfect system.  On the other 
> hand, there are racers who stretch the system.  They'll buy a "sleeper" boat, 
> trick it out to the max, win a few races then sell it when the handicappers 
> hit it.
>  
> IMHO, the biggest problem with PHRF is when there is a mixed fleet with 
> sport boats and displacement boats.  The system just doesn't have the 
> capability to handle the significant differences in performance in varying 
> conditions for disparate boat types.
>  
> Personally, I think the Portsmouth TOT system is better than PHRF.  I'm 
> monitoring my area's venture into ORR-EZ.
>  
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>  
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:56 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > What Edd refers to as “corruption” I referred to in my 
> earlier note as “local politics.”  In my view Edd is correct – corrupt local 
> politics is probably the biggest factor in rating anomalies.
> >  
> > From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 4:42 PM
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating
> >  
> > Randy,
> >  
> > As someone who was Commodore of a Western Long Island Sound yacht 
> > racing association for over 12 years and who has had access to ratings data 
> > from all over the USA, there is, simply, a one-word answer:
> >  
> > Corruption
> >  
> > First of all, the P in PHRF is Performance. So, if there is a a few 
> > C 30s that race in a particular area that do very well, one of their 
> > competitors will go to the PHRF committee and ask for a rating review 
> > stating it’s unfair racing, which may result in a change in that rating. 
> > The more someone complains, the more likely a change will be made, just to 
> > shut them up. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. That alone is corrupt.
> >  
> > Now here is where the BIG corruption comes in to play: Quite often 
> > the members of the PHRF committees are people in the sailing industry, 
> > usually sailmakers. Give them business and changes will probably come in 
> > your favor.
> >  
> > In some areas, it’s gotten better, but it’s still a mess. 

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Correct (as usual) about sport boats.  It’s hard to beat a boat capable of 
doing sport-boat speeds in moderate to heavy air.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:18 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

The imperfections of handicap systems have been discussed a lot.  You just have 
to accept them with all their warts. 

One protection against local politics is to race a boat which has several 
sisterboats.  If your boat is the only one like it in the fleet and you win a 
lot, you probably will be hit.  On the other hand, if there are one or more 
boats like yours in the fleet and the others are not well raced, you have a 
small "buffer" against an adjustment. 

Another protection is to be a member of the club with a local handicapper or a 
club with clout.  Hence, the politics.

PHRF (Punishing Hard Racing Folks) is not a perfect system.  On the other hand, 
there are racers who stretch the system.  They'll buy a "sleeper" boat, trick 
it out to the max, win a few races then sell it when the handicappers hit it.

IMHO, the biggest problem with PHRF is when there is a mixed fleet with sport 
boats and displacement boats.  The system just doesn't have the capability to 
handle the significant differences in performance in varying conditions for 
disparate boat types.

Personally, I think the Portsmouth TOT system is better than PHRF.  I'm 
monitoring my area's venture into ORR-EZ.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:56 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  What Edd refers to as “corruption” I referred to in my earlier note as “local 
politics.”  In my view Edd is correct – corrupt local politics is probably the 
biggest factor in rating anomalies.

  From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
  Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 4:42 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Cc: Edd Schillay 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

  Randy, 

  As someone who was Commodore of a Western Long Island Sound yacht racing 
association for over 12 years and who has had access to ratings data from all 
over the USA, there is, simply, a one-word answer:

  Corruption

  First of all, the P in PHRF is Performance. So, if there is a a few C 30s 
that race in a particular area that do very well, one of their competitors will 
go to the PHRF committee and ask for a rating review stating it’s unfair 
racing, which may result in a change in that rating. The more someone 
complains, the more likely a change will be made, just to shut them up. The 
squeaky wheel gets the oil. That alone is corrupt. 

  Now here is where the BIG corruption comes in to play: Quite often the 
members of the PHRF committees are people in the sailing industry, usually 
sailmakers. Give them business and changes will probably come in your favor. 

  In some areas, it’s gotten better, but it’s still a mess. Real racing factors 
such as sail area, displacement, waterline, etc. are not part of any PHRF 
calculation, except maybe when faced with a one-off new boat -- they’ll rate it 
similar to another boat with the same specs. 

  As you can tell, I’m not a fan. But other systems are either super expensive 
or have gone extinct (Americap had such promise). 

  What racing needs is a mathematician with some extra time on his hands that 
can create a formula that will calculate a rating system based solely on the 
boat’s characteristics. 


  All the best,

  Edd


  Edd M. Schillay
  Captain of the Starship Enterprise
  C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY 
  Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL

  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log







  On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Listers- 

  Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” 
(https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you can 
see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different fleets, 
from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the “C 30” 
and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s tables.

  I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring 
rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding prop, 
from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate the boat at 
168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?

  If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations who 
can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.

  When my boat was first rated by my RSA (https://rmsail.org, in US Sailing’s 
Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a fixed two-blade 
prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for the 2017 season 
and beyond.

  Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the handicapper 
is primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and probably choosing 
the 

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

The imperfections of handicap systems have been discussed a lot.  You just
have to accept them with all their warts.

One protection against local politics is to race a boat which has several
sisterboats.  If your boat is the only one like it in the fleet and you win
a lot, you probably will be hit.  On the other hand, if there are one or
more boats like yours in the fleet and the others are not well raced, you
have a small "buffer" against an adjustment.

Another protection is to be a member of the club with a local handicapper
or a club with clout.  Hence, the politics.

PHRF (Punishing Hard Racing Folks) is not a perfect system.  On the other
hand, there are racers who stretch the system.  They'll buy a "sleeper"
boat, trick it out to the max, win a few races then sell it when the
handicappers hit it.

IMHO, the biggest problem with PHRF is when there is a mixed fleet with
sport boats and displacement boats.  The system just doesn't have the
capability to handle the significant differences in performance in varying
conditions for disparate boat types.

Personally, I think the Portsmouth TOT system is better than PHRF.  I'm
monitoring my area's venture into ORR-EZ.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:56 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> What Edd refers to as “corruption” I referred to in my earlier note as
> “local politics.”  In my view Edd is correct – corrupt local politics is
> probably the biggest factor in rating anomalies.
>
> *From:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2019 4:42 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Edd Schillay 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating
>
> Randy,
>
> As someone who was Commodore of a Western Long Island Sound yacht racing
> association for over 12 years and who has had access to ratings data from
> all over the USA, there is, simply, a one-word answer:
>
> Corruption
>
> First of all, the P in PHRF is Performance. So, if there is a a few C
> 30s that race in a particular area that do very well, one of their
> competitors will go to the PHRF committee and ask for a rating review
> stating it’s unfair racing, which may result in a change in that rating.
> The more someone complains, the more likely a change will be made, just to
> shut them up. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. That alone is corrupt.
>
> Now here is where the BIG corruption comes in to play: Quite often the
> members of the PHRF committees are people in the sailing industry, usually
> sailmakers. Give them business and changes will probably come in your
> favor.
>
> In some areas, it’s gotten better, but it’s still a mess. Real racing
> factors such as sail area, displacement, waterline, etc. are not part of
> any PHRF calculation, except maybe when faced with a one-off new boat --
> they’ll rate it similar to another boat with the same specs.
>
> As you can tell, I’m not a fan. But other systems are either super
> expensive or have gone extinct (Americap had such promise).
>
> What racing needs is a mathematician with some extra time on his hands
> that can create a formula that will calculate a rating system based solely
> on the boat’s characteristics.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Listers-
>
> Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” (
> https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you
> can see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different
> fleets, from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the
> “C 30” and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s
> tables.
>
> I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring
> rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding
> prop, from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate
> the boat at 168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?
>
> If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations
> who can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.
>
> When my boat was first rated by my RSA (https://rmsail.org, in US
> Sailing’s Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a fixed
> two-blade prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for
> the 2017 season and beyond.
>
> Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the
> handicapper is primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and
> probably choosing the most-often occurring rating as the base.  So I
> believe my boat’s rating will probably change to 174.
>
> Can anyone explain the range of ratings?

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 Matt and Edd; I agree, that's why I quit racing...
 
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB: Ohio River, Mile 584.4
Richard N. Bush  
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2019 9:56 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

What Edd refers to as “corruption” I referred to in my earlier note as “local 
politics.”  In my view Edd is correct – corrupt local politics is probably the 
biggest factor in rating anomalies. From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: 
Monday, June 10, 2019 4:42 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating Randy,  As someone who was Commodore 
of a Western Long Island Sound yacht racing association for over 12 years and 
who has had access to ratings data from all over the USA, there is, simply, a 
one-word answer: Corruption First of all, the P in PHRF is Performance. So, if 
there is a a few C 30s that race in a particular area that do very well, one 
of their competitors will go to the PHRF committee and ask for a rating review 
stating it’s unfair racing, which may result in a change in that rating. The 
more someone complains, the more likely a change will be made, just to shut 
them up. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. That alone is corrupt.  Now here is 
where the BIG corruption comes in to play: Quite often the members of the PHRF 
committees are people in the sailing industry, usually sailmakers. Give them 
business and changes will probably come in your favor.  In some areas, it’s 
gotten better, but it’s still a mess. Real racing factors such as sail area, 
displacement, waterline, etc. are not part of any PHRF calculation, except 
maybe when faced with a one-off new boat -- they’ll rate it similar to another 
boat with the same specs.  As you can tell, I’m not a fan. But other systems 
are either super expensive or have gone extinct (Americap had such promise).  
What racing needs is a mathematician with some extra time on his hands that can 
create a formula that will calculate a rating system based solely on the boat’s 
characteristics. 

All the best, Edd  Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the Starship EnterpriseC 37+ | 
Sail No: NCC-1701-BCity Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY Venice Yacht Club | 
Venice, FL Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 


 On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
 wrote: Listers-  Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US 
PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” 
(https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you can 
see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different fleets, 
from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the “C 30” 
and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s tables. I’m 
trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring rating, is 
174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding prop, from what I 
understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate the boat at 168 sec/nm, 
for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186? If we have any listers 
from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations who can shed light on this 
question, I’d be very interested. When my boat was first rated by my RSA 
(https://rmsail.org, in US Sailing’s Area F) back in 2016, she was given a 
rating of 186, with a fixed two-blade prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I 
got a folding prop for the 2017 season and beyond. Now my RSA is re-rating all 
boats in the region.  I believe the handicapper is primarily looking at the 
above US Sailing document, and probably choosing the most-often occurring 
rating as the base.  So I believe my boat’s rating will probably change to 174. 
Can anyone explain the range of ratings? Thank You,Randy StaffordS/V 
GrenadineC 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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 ___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Well my 1981 40-2 is definitely a light air screamer.  Yet she rates faster in 
Buzzards Bay (home of the Smokin’ Southwester), than Narragansett Bay which has 
lighter winds.

Go figure.   I stick to long distance races now where those anomalies iron out 
(hopefully).

David F. Risch
Gulf Stream Associates
(401) 419-4650

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Matthew L. Wolford 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

Different PHRF organizations in different parts of the country assign ratings 
based on performance (the P in PHRF).  If the boat does better in heavy 
weather, for example, its racing results will be better in regions where there 
is more wind (and thus a lower base rating).  If it’s a light air boat, the 
opposite is true.  Then there’s design/construction differences, modifications, 
props, roller furlers, mast size, etc.  In addition, a base rating could be 
changed as a result of a rating adjustment request or a competitor’s challenge. 
 And my personal favorite, local politics.

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

Most of our best racing fun happens whenever we see another mast on a boat with 
similar rating to Alianna. These “races” usually take less than 15 min to 
decide who has the edge on any particular tack then we break away to have fun 
going wherever we want to go. That said we have done hundreds of handicapped 
races and the one positive i will note about those is that they were an 
excellent way to learn how to sail for best performance. So handicap racing is 
a learning experience not to be taken too seriously. I never really liked 
Spending a nice day on the water sailing a course that someone else had set and 
which often resulted in collisions and most often congestion at marks on 
otherwise open water. Amazing what some racers will do at the start line and 
mark rounding in particular to gain an advantage given that most enter these 
races with a rather limited knowledge of the racing rules of sailing and are 
operating rather expensive toys with valuable but often ill informed lives 
aboard. Nuff said

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 5:26 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Listers-

Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” 
(https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/),
 you can see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different 
fleets, from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the 
“C 30” and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s 
tables.

I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring 
rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding prop, 
from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate the boat at 
168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?

If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations who 
can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.

When my boat was first rated by my RSA 
(https://rmsail.org,
 in US Sailing’s Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a 
fixed two-blade prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for 
the 2017 season and beyond.

Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the handicapper is 
primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and probably choosing the 
most-often occurring rating as the base.  So I believe my boat’s rating will 
probably change to 174.

Can anyone explain the range of ratings?

Thank You,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
--
Sent from 

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

What Edd refers to as “corruption” I referred to in my earlier note as “local 
politics.”  In my view Edd is correct – corrupt local politics is probably the 
biggest factor in rating anomalies.

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 4:42 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

Randy, 

As someone who was Commodore of a Western Long Island Sound yacht racing 
association for over 12 years and who has had access to ratings data from all 
over the USA, there is, simply, a one-word answer:

Corruption

First of all, the P in PHRF is Performance. So, if there is a a few C 30s 
that race in a particular area that do very well, one of their competitors will 
go to the PHRF committee and ask for a rating review stating it’s unfair 
racing, which may result in a change in that rating. The more someone 
complains, the more likely a change will be made, just to shut them up. The 
squeaky wheel gets the oil. That alone is corrupt. 

Now here is where the BIG corruption comes in to play: Quite often the members 
of the PHRF committees are people in the sailing industry, usually sailmakers. 
Give them business and changes will probably come in your favor. 

In some areas, it’s gotten better, but it’s still a mess. Real racing factors 
such as sail area, displacement, waterline, etc. are not part of any PHRF 
calculation, except maybe when faced with a one-off new boat -- they’ll rate it 
similar to another boat with the same specs. 

As you can tell, I’m not a fan. But other systems are either super expensive or 
have gone extinct (Americap had such promise). 

What racing needs is a mathematician with some extra time on his hands that can 
create a formula that will calculate a rating system based solely on the boat’s 
characteristics. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY 
Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log







On Jun 10, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Listers- 

Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” 
(https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you can 
see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different fleets, 
from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the “C 30” 
and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s tables.

I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring 
rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding prop, 
from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate the boat at 
168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?

If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations who 
can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.

When my boat was first rated by my RSA (https://rmsail.org, in US Sailing’s 
Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a fixed two-blade 
prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for the 2017 season 
and beyond.

Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the handicapper is 
primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and probably choosing the 
most-often occurring rating as the base.  So I believe my boat’s rating will 
probably change to 174.

Can anyone explain the range of ratings?

Thank You,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray






___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Different PHRF organizations in different parts of the country assign ratings 
based on performance (the P in PHRF).  If the boat does better in heavy 
weather, for example, its racing results will be better in regions where there 
is more wind (and thus a lower base rating).  If it’s a light air boat, the 
opposite is true.  Then there’s design/construction differences, modifications, 
props, roller furlers, mast size, etc.  In addition, a base rating could be 
changed as a result of a rating adjustment request or a competitor’s challenge. 
 And my personal favorite, local politics.

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

Most of our best racing fun happens whenever we see another mast on a boat with 
similar rating to Alianna. These “races” usually take less than 15 min to 
decide who has the edge on any particular tack then we break away to have fun 
going wherever we want to go. That said we have done hundreds of handicapped 
races and the one positive i will note about those is that they were an 
excellent way to learn how to sail for best performance. So handicap racing is 
a learning experience not to be taken too seriously. I never really liked 
Spending a nice day on the water sailing a course that someone else had set and 
which often resulted in collisions and most often congestion at marks on 
otherwise open water. Amazing what some racers will do at the start line and 
mark rounding in particular to gain an advantage given that most enter these 
races with a rather limited knowledge of the racing rules of sailing and are 
operating rather expensive toys with valuable but often ill informed lives 
aboard. Nuff said

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 5:26 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Listers- 

  Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” 
(https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you can 
see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different fleets, 
from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the “C 30” 
and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s tables.

  I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring 
rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding prop, 
from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate the boat at 
168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?

  If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations who 
can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.

  When my boat was first rated by my RSA (https://rmsail.org, in US Sailing’s 
Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a fixed two-blade 
prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for the 2017 season 
and beyond.

  Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the handicapper 
is primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and probably choosing 
the most-often occurring rating as the base.  So I believe my boat’s rating 
will probably change to 174.

  Can anyone explain the range of ratings?

  Thank You,
  Randy Stafford
  S/V Grenadine
  C 30-1 #7
  Ken Caryl, CO
  ___

  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


-- 

Sent from Gmail Mobile



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Most of our best racing fun happens whenever we see another mast on a boat
with similar rating to Alianna. These “races” usually take less than 15 min
to decide who has the edge on any particular tack then we break away to
have fun going wherever we want to go. That said we have done hundreds of
handicapped races and the one positive i will note about those is that they
were an excellent way to learn how to sail for best performance. So
handicap racing is a learning experience not to be taken too seriously. I
never really liked Spending a nice day on the water sailing a course that
someone else had set and which often resulted in collisions and most often
congestion at marks on otherwise open water. Amazing what some racers will
do at the start line and mark rounding in particular to gain an advantage
given that most enter these races with a rather limited knowledge of the
racing rules of sailing and are operating rather expensive toys with
valuable but often ill informed lives aboard. Nuff said

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 5:26 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Listers-
>
> Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” (
> https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you
> can see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different
> fleets, from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the
> “C 30” and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s
> tables.
>
> I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring
> rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding
> prop, from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate
> the boat at 168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?
>
> If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations
> who can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.
>
> When my boat was first rated by my RSA (https://rmsail.org, in US
> Sailing’s Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a fixed
> two-blade prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for
> the 2017 season and beyond.
>
> Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the
> handicapper is primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and
> probably choosing the most-often occurring rating as the base.  So I
> believe my boat’s rating will probably change to 174.
>
> Can anyone explain the range of ratings?
>
> Thank You,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Randy

When comparing boats across different areas make sure you look at other boats 
in those areas as well.  Pacific NW tends to rate most of their fleet 9 – 12 
sec/mile slower than most other areas … not just the C 30.

Also look at the prevailing wind conditions in the areas.  Northern California 
is known to be windy whereas LI Sound is known for fairly light winds.  A C 
30-1 would perform much better in the windier areas and should have a faster 
rating in Northern California than in LIS for example.

Yes PHRF sucks.  However all of the systems suck.  Some suck worse than others. 
 ORR, IMS, IRC, etc …require measurements of each boat.  It is difficult to 
find a measurer and quite expensive to get a boat measured.  However a 
measurement rule seems to be a lot fairer for point to point distance racing 
than a single number system.  You can have a race like Marblehead to Halifax 
that is hundreds of miles of mostly reaching.  In that sort of race a big long 
waterline boat that is horrible at W/L short leg races will tend to do very 
well as it would be on its best point of sail most of the race and therefore 
outsail its handicap under many systems.

For a typical small club race PHRF has one very redeeming feature.  It is 
simple to use and easy to find existing handicaps for most production boats 
that have been around for any length of time.  The ORR-EZ system that has been 
discussed gives me a first impression that the Race Committee would have more 
work to do in implementing on a race by race basis and would need to be 
knowledgeable and could implement the incorrect number for a given race 
condition.  Also on a race course at least with PHRF or any other single number 
system as a sailor I know how much time I owe any other boat at any given time 
during a race.  Multi number systems this would be much more difficult

The only thing that really works is OD racing.  Of course that means that 
everyone has to go get the same boat and usually not the one they prefer.  I 
really do not wish to spend all my time on a Farr 30 especially for a fun one 
off race on a Saturday ….  OD tends to weaken the mixed fleet participation 
which is its cost.  Then you have all these C and other boats sitting at the 
dock …

Is PHRF perfect?  No.  Not at all.  However in theory it is based on observed 
performance so is inexpensive to implement.  It does assume that a boat is in 
race condition including folding/feathering prop, decent sails, spinnaker, etc …

Happy Tuesday

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
1987 Frers 33 #16
Halifax, NS
www.hoytsailing.com

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 5:26 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: Randy Stafford
Subject: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

Listers-

Looking at US Sailing’s “History of US PHRF Affiliated Fleet Handicaps” 
(https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/phrf/phrf-handicaps/), you can 
see that there is a range of ratings for the 30 MK I across different fleets, 
from 168 to 186 seconds per nautical mile.  Note I believe that the “C 30” 
and “C 30 (1-506)” models are the same boat in that document’s tables.

I’m trying to understand why that is.  The mode, or most often occurring 
rating, is 174.  That’s with spinnaker, and generally assumes a folding prop, 
from what I understand.  But why would the Newfoundland fleet rate the boat at 
168 sec/nm, for example, and the Northwest fleet rate it at 186?

If we have any listers from those fleets / Regional Sailing Associations who 
can shed light on this question, I’d be very interested.

When my boat was first rated by my RSA (https://rmsail.org, in US Sailing’s 
Area F) back in 2016, she was given a rating of 186, with a fixed two-blade 
prop.  Her rating stayed at 186 after I got a folding prop for the 2017 season 
and beyond.

Now my RSA is re-rating all boats in the region.  I believe the handicapper is 
primarily looking at the above US Sailing document, and probably choosing the 
most-often occurring rating as the base.  So I believe my boat’s rating will 
probably change to 174.

Can anyone explain the range of ratings?

Thank You,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Sail Shackle

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

You need to measure the size of the sail shackle as there are many different 
sizes and styles. It doesn't need to match exactly, just the length is 
important so the sail remains the same distance from the mast track.

The vent fitting is shot. I'd replace the whole fitting as you can see 
corrosion on what's left. It looks like Perko which made a lot of chromed brass 
fittings for boats. You need to measure the hose ID and the hole through the 
boat and these come in straight or 90 degree. West Marine and Defender supply 
those in several flavors, chromed brass like yours or stainless which is 
better. Either should have a screen built in to prevent mud dauber wasps from 
filling the hole, plugging the vent.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/bainbridge--small-screw-on-plastic-shackles-3-pack--4474151?mrkgcl=481=3150667423_mmc=PS-_-MSN-_-BSC%3ENonB%3EProduct%2520Type-_-4474151=74217049535705=c=e=4f33b08406481a28de5eec7b96533844

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--thru-hull-vent--138792?mrkgcl=481=3150667413_mmc=PS-_-MSN-_-BSC%3ENonB%3EProduct%2520Type-_-138792=73873452164336=c=e=ac25be7b8dbf1284005de2841fac9e18

You can source these from other suppliers. I just found West Marine when I 
googled. I keep a handful of sail schackles onboard in my spare parts. Only 
ever replaced one.



Chuck S


> On June 10, 2019 at 11:12 PM John Conklin via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Few Maint. Items
> 
> I Looked through several catalogs and no luck
> 
> Think this is called a sail shackle  from Track slide ( Is OK )  to sail 
> (Need) one is busted
> 
> Where do I find this piece?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D2WOotswcj0hq2kJ59dHk3D5N3OIPOX0
> 
>  
> 
> and a vent cover ?? from water fill ?  all I find are  are clamshell 
> style  this one had straight flat 3 sides
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VaWAS9XDA6GhQ_DlSY6jZDeJUTBcHTKC
> 
>  
> 
> Much appreciated !!
> 
>  
> 
> John Conklin
> 
> S/V Halcyon
> 
>  
> 
 

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> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
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> 
> 
 
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Re: Stus-List Sail Shackle

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

In a pinch white plastic plumbing elbows can do.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 10, 2019, at 11:13 PM, John Conklin via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Few Maint. Items
I Looked through several catalogs and no luck
Think this is called a sail shackle  from Track slide ( Is OK )  to sail (Need) 
one is busted
Where do I find this piece?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D2WOotswcj0hq2kJ59dHk3D5N3OIPOX0

and a vent cover ?? from water fill ?  all I find are  are clamshell style  
this one had straight flat 3 sides
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VaWAS9XDA6GhQ_DlSY6jZDeJUTBcHTKC

Much appreciated !!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon

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