Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[Luke Wolbrink via CnC-List]

I actually just switched to lithium batteries, for the reasons everyone
mentioned below... better life, deeper cycling, WEIGHT. I got 200AH worth
of "12v" batteries on ebay for $1200, not name brand but as far as I'm
concerned it's all the same cells on the inside just like buying AGM's from
samsclub vs westmarine.

A couple of things to note:
1) You need a dc-dc converter if you plan to charge from the alternator.
These things charge at 14.5V which is higher than your alternator.
Similarly they charge at HUGE currents so your alternator will just spin up
and kill itself. A DC-DC charger (mine is renogy) prevents this issue.

2) There is a difference between Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron Phosphate
batteries (LiFePo4). Lithium Ion are the ones that only charge to like 13V
and blow up if mistreated. LiPo4's on the other hand don't have this issue
and are super stable, they charger and discharge at higher voltage too
which is good. DONT get lithium, get lithium iron phosphate, it's only a
few $$ more.

Happy sailing and I hope this helps!

~Luke Wolbrink
1985 C 35-3 Zella #84044
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Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

>From experience with model boats, there are many types of lithium batteries.
Not sure what kind you are talking about. I have used lithium polymer
batteries - similar to your cell phone. They are very fussy, need to be
charged on a special charger which will first discharge them and then
balance the cells when charging. These are the ones they warn you not to
charge indoors, put in a special bag, etc. When they discharge beyond a
certain point, they are toast..don't ask me how I know.  I have moved to
Lithium Ferrite - LiFe. Different chemistry, less fussy, still light and
powerful.

 

I have no idea what "lithium' type are being used in big boats. Maybe
someone who is smarter than I can enlighten me..

 

Gary

Model Skipjack on the Chesapeake

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of David Knecht via
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 12:08 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

 

I got a bad feeling about Lithium batteries last summer listening to an
emergency Coast Guard call on VHF from a boat whose lithium batteries were
on fire and they could not put out the fire. I thought I read that current
lithium batteries are now designed to reduce that hazard.  Dave

 

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT








On Sep 4, 2020, at 10:40 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

I've been following a few RV channels on YouTube and learning about lithium
batteries?   Some people are living "off-the-grid, living large with solar
panels and inverters.  Just learned that lithium batteries are 40 pounds
less weight per battery and last three to five times as many years, (3000 to
5000 cycles vs 1000 cycles for AGMs).  AGMs and Lead Acid shouldn't be
drained below 50% so you really need four 100ah AGM batteries to have 200ah
available.  Lithium can be drained down to nothing without harm, so two give
you 200ah.  If I was keeping my boat, or doing any long cruises, I'd
definitely look into those.  I got eleven years from my first AGM batteries
so Lithium should last me thirty years.  One Lithium battery presently costs
$950 for Battleborn vs $300 for a quality AGM and two lithium batteries
($1900 and 58# total weight) equal the amp hours of four AGMs ($1200 and
276# total weight).  Lithium is actually $500 cheaper if you keep the boat
long enough to have to replace the AGMs twice (cost $2400) and they are 218#
lighter.  That's a hell of a weight savings for racers. 

 

Prices keep falling for this new technology, so it's simply a matter of
time.  I think one Lithium might replace my two AGMs at some point in the
near future. 

 

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R 

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Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I got a bad feeling about Lithium batteries last summer listening to an 
emergency Coast Guard call on VHF from a boat whose lithium batteries were on 
fire and they could not put out the fire. I thought I read that current lithium 
batteries are now designed to reduce that hazard.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Sep 4, 2020, at 10:40 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've been following a few RV channels on YouTube and learning about lithium 
> batteries?   Some people are living "off-the-grid, living large with solar 
> panels and inverters.  Just learned that lithium batteries are 40 pounds less 
> weight per battery and last three to five times as many years, (3000 to 5000 
> cycles vs 1000 cycles for AGMs).  AGMs and Lead Acid shouldn't be drained 
> below 50% so you really need four 100ah AGM batteries to have 200ah 
> available.  Lithium can be drained down to nothing without harm, so two give 
> you 200ah.  If I was keeping my boat, or doing any long cruises, I'd 
> definitely look into those.  I got eleven years from my first AGM batteries 
> so Lithium should last me thirty years.  One Lithium battery presently costs 
> $950 for Battleborn vs $300 for a quality AGM and two lithium batteries 
> ($1900 and 58# total weight) equal the amp hours of four AGMs ($1200 and 276# 
> total weight).  Lithium is actually $500 cheaper if you keep the boat long 
> enough to have to replace the AGMs twice (cost $2400) and they are 218# 
> lighter.  That's a hell of a weight savings for racers. 
> 
> Prices keep falling for this new technology, so it's simply a matter of time. 
>  I think one Lithium might replace my two AGMs at some point in the near 
> future.
> 
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Right you are.   Found a Victron video that describes some of the risks of 
mixing higher efficiency batteries with older alternators and what can go 
wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug

So much to learn so little time.



> On 09/04/2020 10:43 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Lithium have a different charge profile, so chargers and regulators need 
> to be adjusted or you will fry the lithiums.
> 
> Joel
> 
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 10:41 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > I've been following a few RV channels on YouTube and 
> learning about lithium batteries?   Some people are living "off-the-grid, 
> living large with solar panels and inverters.  Just learned that lithium 
> batteries are 40 pounds less weight per battery and last three to five times 
> as many years, (3000 to 5000 cycles vs 1000 cycles for AGMs).  AGMs and Lead 
> Acid shouldn't be drained below 50% so you really need four 100ah AGM 
> batteries to have 200ah available.  Lithium can be drained down to nothing 
> without harm, so two give you 200ah.  If I was keeping my boat, or doing any 
> long cruises, I'd definitely look into those.  I got eleven years from my 
> first AGM batteries so Lithium should last me thirty years.  One Lithium 
> battery presently costs $950 for Battleborn vs $300 for a quality AGM and two 
> lithium batteries ($1900 and 58# total weight) equal the amp hours of four 
> AGMs ($1200 and 276# total weight).  Lithium is actually $500 cheaper if you 
> keep the boat long enough to have to replace the AGMs twice (cost $2400) and 
> they are 218# lighter.  That's a hell of a weight savings for racers.
> > 
> > Prices keep falling for this new technology, so it's simply a 
> > matter of time.  I think one Lithium might replace my two AGMs at some 
> > point in the near future.
> > 
> > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> 
> --
> Joel
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Firefly Oasis carbon foam AGMs are a good compromise-they can be drawn down to 
30% capacity without harm.  There are many other advantages over more common 
AGMs.  I have four of them in a single bank—I’ve had them for 5 years now.  I 
would never go back to another type of battery!

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in the Bahamas, summers in Baltimore, and somewhere on the 
ICW in between)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Sep 4, 2020, at 10:41 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've been following a few RV channels on YouTube and learning about lithium 
> batteries?   Some people are living "off-the-grid, living large with solar 
> panels and inverters.  Just learned that lithium batteries are 40 pounds less 
> weight per battery and last three to five times as many years, (3000 to 5000 
> cycles vs 1000 cycles for AGMs).  AGMs and Lead Acid shouldn't be drained 
> below 50% so you really need four 100ah AGM batteries to have 200ah 
> available.  Lithium can be drained down to nothing without harm, so two give 
> you 200ah.  If I was keeping my boat, or doing any long cruises, I'd 
> definitely look into those.  I got eleven years from my first AGM batteries 
> so Lithium should last me thirty years.  One Lithium battery presently costs 
> $950 for Battleborn vs $300 for a quality AGM and two lithium batteries 
> ($1900 and 58# total weight) equal the amp hours of four AGMs ($1200 and 276# 
> total weight).  Lithium is actually $500 cheaper if you keep the boat long 
> enough to have to replace the AGMs twice (cost $2400) and they are 218# 
> lighter.  That's a hell of a weight savings for racers. 
> 
> Prices keep falling for this new technology, so it's simply a matter of time. 
>  I think one Lithium might replace my two AGMs at some point in the near 
> future.
> 
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Lithium have a different charge profile, so chargers and regulators need to
be adjusted or you will fry the lithiums.

Joel

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 10:41 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I've been following a few RV channels on YouTube and learning about
> lithium batteries?   Some people are living "off-the-grid, living large
> with solar panels and inverters.  Just learned that lithium batteries are 40
> pounds less weight per battery and last three to five times as many years,
> (3000 to 5000 cycles vs 1000 cycles for AGMs).  AGMs and Lead Acid
> shouldn't be drained below 50% so you really need four 100ah AGM batteries
> to have 200ah available.  Lithium can be drained down to nothing without
> harm, so two give you 200ah.  If I was keeping my boat, or doing any long
> cruises, I'd definitely look into those.  I got eleven years from my first
> AGM batteries so Lithium should last me thirty years.  One Lithium battery
> presently costs $950 for Battleborn vs $300 for a quality AGM and two
> lithium batteries ($1900 and 58# total weight) equal the amp hours of four
> AGMs ($1200 and 276# total weight).  Lithium is actually $500 cheaper if
> you keep the boat long enough to have to replace the AGMs twice (cost
> $2400) and they are 218# lighter.  That's a hell of a weight savings for
> racers.
>
> Prices keep falling for this new technology, so it's simply a matter of
> time.  I think one Lithium might replace my two AGMs at some point in the
> near future.
>
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Joel
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Stus-List Lithium Ion batteries

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I've been following a few RV channels on YouTube and learning about lithium 
batteries?   Some people are living "off-the-grid, living large with solar 
panels and inverters.  Just learned that lithium batteries are 40 pounds less 
weight per battery and last three to five times as many years, (3000 to 5000 
cycles vs 1000 cycles for AGMs).  AGMs and Lead Acid shouldn't be drained below 
50% so you really need four 100ah AGM batteries to have 200ah available.  
Lithium can be drained down to nothing without harm, so two give you 200ah.  If 
I was keeping my boat, or doing any long cruises, I'd definitely look into 
those.  I got eleven years from my first AGM batteries so Lithium should last 
me thirty years.  One Lithium battery presently costs $950 for Battleborn vs 
$300 for a quality AGM and two lithium batteries ($1900 and 58# total weight) 
equal the amp hours of four AGMs ($1200 and 276# total weight).  Lithium is 
actually $500 cheaper if you keep the boat long enough to have to replace the 
AGMs twice (cost $2400) and they are 218# lighter.  That's a hell of a weight 
savings for racers.

Prices keep falling for this new technology, so it's simply a matter of time.  
I think one Lithium might replace my two AGMs at some point in the near future.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R___

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Re: Stus-List AGM battery prices

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Here you go:

https://www.samsclub.com/p/duracell-agm-deep-cycle-marine-and-rv-battery-group-size-31dtmagm/prod3590232?xid=plp_product_1_1




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Re: Stus-List AGM battery prices

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Find a battery retailer who works with golf carts/industrial sweepers etc.   If 
you can manage the height 6v wet gives the most amp per buck (IMHO).

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of David Knecht via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 11:12 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List AGM battery prices

At some point in the future, I will need to replace my 10 year old AGM 
batteries.  I was looking at the West Marine sale today and I feel like I am 
missing something about pricing.  Usually Defender is cheaper than West Marine 
on most everything, sale prices not withstanding.

But West Marine has a 80 Ah AGM group 24 battery with regular price of $249
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--group-24-dual-purpose-agm-battery-79-amp-hours--15020233?recordNum=1

Defender has a Lifeline Group 24 with 80 Ah for $380.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=lifeline-deep-cycle-marine-battery=-1|328|2289954|2289956=152212
That is a big difference.  What am I missing?
Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D6828E.5C367CD0]


Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
University of Connecticut
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269-3125



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Stus-List AGM battery prices

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

West Marine is selling private label batteries made by East Penn - Deka. They 
are not Lifeline batteries, which are a premium brand. I am not sure if they 
still have them, but last I was in Sam's Club they sell Deka Group 31 AGMs for 
about $180, which are labeled something like Energizer. Besides for the label 
they are the same as West Marine 31s.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2020 11:12 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List AGM battery prices

At some point in the future, I will need to replace my 10 year old AGM 
batteries.  I was looking at the West Marine sale today and I feel like I am 
missing something about pricing.  Usually Defender is cheaper than West Marine 
on most everything, sale prices not withstanding.

But West Marine has a 80 Ah AGM group 24 battery with regular price of $249
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--group-24-dual-purpose-agm-battery-79-amp-hours--15020233?recordNum=1

Defender has a Lifeline Group 24 with 80 Ah for $380.
https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=lifeline-deep-cycle-marine-battery=-1|328|2289954|2289956=152212
That is a big difference.  What am I missing?
Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D6828B.1A42D1A0]


Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
University of Connecticut
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269-3125



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