Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Martin,

Wow! wire in the luff  this is for some serious conditions.

And the 5 500 km shipping cost would probably be more expensive than the 
sail...  but thanks for the offer.

Still waiting for a reply from my sailmaker, but I'm pretty sure the feedback 
will be similar to the one I received here.

Bruno, on the right coast looking north



Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 6 avr. 2021 à 22:05, Martin DeYoung 
mailto:martin.deyo...@outlook.com>> a écrit :

Bruno,

I have a 2.2oz “chicken chute” with wire in the luff tapes packed away in 
Calypso’s storage locker.

I have not hoisted it but have stretched it out in a loft to evaluate its 
condition. My guess it was made by Hood back in the 70’s.  It looks like a good 
used low mileage sail with limited UV exposure.  It has very narrow shoulders 
and is small enough in square area it might be entertaining on a 33’ boat.

Let me know if you want to take it for a test sail.  Based on other times/other 
boats when a wire luff chicken chute was called for I expect you would need a 
TWS of 25+ to get this sail to fly well.  Of course, you break it, you bought 
it.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle/Port Ludlow

From: Bruno Lachance via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:07 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Bruno Lachance
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

Thank you all for the group wisdom.

To be clear my plan was never to compensate the shorter length of the luff by 
not hoisting the chute to the masthead. I am fully aware of the consequences in 
higher winds. I have seen people do that before when the chute is on the 
smaller side in the attempts to have a fuller shape in light conditions. No big 
deal when it's light, but even then I really doubt it makes the boat faster. It 
sure looks bad!

So back on deck. As a reference, I usually set my pole at about 18-20 inches 
higher that the boom, with a chute 3 ft shorter, i'm worried I would need to 
set the pole too high, but I thought maybe I could flat the sail a little and 
keep the pole lower than usual. Gybing with the pole too high does not look 
appealing neither.

The seller is pretty far so impossible to have a look or confirm measures. He 
says the sail is 40.8 but he measures 44 " by hand" whatever that means. With a 
foot of 21.5, 40.8 makes more sense, so a tad short.

Still tempted by the price...and It is appealing to keep my nice North AirX 600 
crisp for racing.

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine , 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc.





Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 6 avr. 2021 à 17:07, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> a écrit :
Bruno, I tried what you are thinking about. It didn’t work. Dennis is right, 
you do not want three feet of halyard swinging your chute around – it does not 
get pretty. And, if you have the pole hoisted up in the air to get the chute 
hoisted all the way, you have a higher center of effort for that chute and it 
will move around, which is what you don’t want in heavy weather. The ultimate 
trick would be to have a separate halyard attached three feet down the mast 
just for that chute, but on our masthead boats, you will get all tangled up 
with the forestay. Sorry.

Gary – 30-1
From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:56 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Dennis C. mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
for oscillation and loss of control.

While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.

I'd rather broach than do a death roll!

To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
short to me.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Bruno,

Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.

Joel

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:

The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat

I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used 
as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Bruno,

I have a 2.2oz “chicken chute” with wire in the luff tapes packed away in 
Calypso’s storage locker.

I have not hoisted it but have stretched it out in a loft to evaluate its 
condition. My guess it was made by Hood back in the 70’s.  It looks like a good 
used low mileage sail with limited UV exposure.  It has very narrow shoulders 
and is small enough in square area it might be entertaining on a 33’ boat.

Let me know if you want to take it for a test sail.  Based on other times/other 
boats when a wire luff chicken chute was called for I expect you would need a 
TWS of 25+ to get this sail to fly well.  Of course, you break it, you bought 
it.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle/Port Ludlow

From: Bruno Lachance via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:07 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Bruno Lachance
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

Thank you all for the group wisdom.

To be clear my plan was never to compensate the shorter length of the luff by 
not hoisting the chute to the masthead. I am fully aware of the consequences in 
higher winds. I have seen people do that before when the chute is on the 
smaller side in the attempts to have a fuller shape in light conditions. No big 
deal when it's light, but even then I really doubt it makes the boat faster. It 
sure looks bad!

So back on deck. As a reference, I usually set my pole at about 18-20 inches 
higher that the boom, with a chute 3 ft shorter, i'm worried I would need to 
set the pole too high, but I thought maybe I could flat the sail a little and 
keep the pole lower than usual. Gybing with the pole too high does not look 
appealing neither.

The seller is pretty far so impossible to have a look or confirm measures. He 
says the sail is 40.8 but he measures 44 " by hand" whatever that means. With a 
foot of 21.5, 40.8 makes more sense, so a tad short.

Still tempted by the price...and It is appealing to keep my nice North AirX 600 
crisp for racing.

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine , 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc.





Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 6 avr. 2021 à 17:07, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> a écrit :
Bruno, I tried what you are thinking about. It didn’t work. Dennis is right, 
you do not want three feet of halyard swinging your chute around – it does not 
get pretty. And, if you have the pole hoisted up in the air to get the chute 
hoisted all the way, you have a higher center of effort for that chute and it 
will move around, which is what you don’t want in heavy weather. The ultimate 
trick would be to have a separate halyard attached three feet down the mast 
just for that chute, but on our masthead boats, you will get all tangled up 
with the forestay. Sorry.

Gary – 30-1
From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:56 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Dennis C. mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
for oscillation and loss of control.

While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.

I'd rather broach than do a death roll!

To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
short to me.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Bruno,

Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.

Joel

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:

The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat

I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used 
as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Thank you all for the group wisdom.

To be clear my plan was never to compensate the shorter length of the luff by 
not hoisting the chute to the masthead. I am fully aware of the consequences in 
higher winds. I have seen people do that before when the chute is on the 
smaller side in the attempts to have a fuller shape in light conditions. No big 
deal when it's light, but even then I really doubt it makes the boat faster. It 
sure looks bad!

So back on deck. As a reference, I usually set my pole at about 18-20 inches 
higher that the boom, with a chute 3 ft shorter, i'm worried I would need to 
set the pole too high, but I thought maybe I could flat the sail a little and 
keep the pole lower than usual. Gybing with the pole too high does not look 
appealing neither.

The seller is pretty far so impossible to have a look or confirm measures. He 
says the sail is 40.8 but he measures 44 " by hand" whatever that means. With a 
foot of 21.5, 40.8 makes more sense, so a tad short.

Still tempted by the price...and It is appealing to keep my nice North AirX 600 
crisp for racing.

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine , 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc.





Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 6 avr. 2021 à 17:07, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> a écrit :

Bruno, I tried what you are thinking about. It didn’t work. Dennis is right, 
you do not want three feet of halyard swinging your chute around – it does not 
get pretty. And, if you have the pole hoisted up in the air to get the chute 
hoisted all the way, you have a higher center of effort for that chute and it 
will move around, which is what you don’t want in heavy weather. The ultimate 
trick would be to have a separate halyard attached three feet down the mast 
just for that chute, but on our masthead boats, you will get all tangled up 
with the forestay. Sorry.

Gary – 30-1
From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:56 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Dennis C. mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
for oscillation and loss of control.

While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.

I'd rather broach than do a death roll!

To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
short to me.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Bruno,

Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.

Joel

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:

The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat

I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used 
as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[cenelson via CnC-List]

+1 on all comments on how fly it safely—especially fully hoisting it!
On one of my earlier kite disasters, we failed to notice that our hoist was 6-8 
feet short of full hoist with my masthead full shouldered kite during a 
practice run dead downwind.
The wind was up, of course, and within 15-20 seconds our bowman scooted rapidly 
back to the cockpit on our run claiming the bow was going under. When the water 
was on deck about 1/2 way to the mast on both port and starboard, someone 
noticed the kite was not fully up.
With the fear of sinking rearing its head, a crew sprang to the kite halyard 
and pulled as if his life depended on it to get the kite fully hoisted.
Thereafter of course , Water Phantom corrected its bow down attitude and 
returned to a surface ship from its brief but scary replication of a submarine 
beginning to dive.
Moral of the story—the horizontal force vector on a kite can and likely will 
point down if not fully hoisted—never mind the other force vectors possibly 
whipping it side to side, etc. If this down vector overwhelms those or others 
from the main sail, keel, rudder, etc. she has no other option but to head 
‘below’ and head below she will!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/kcb





Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 4:32 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 wrote:

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
for oscillation and loss of control.
While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.  
I'd rather broach than do a death roll!
To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
short to me.
  -- 
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Bruno,
Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.
Joel
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:
The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat
I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used 
as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5 





Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: um From richard - now Airhead

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

When I switch my head to use fresh water, the flow is supplied by my regular 
fresh water pump. I can see no reason not to plumb it that way. Most boats 
follow suit. There is no way effluent could get into the FW system.
Andy

Andrew Burton
26 Beacon Hill
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 17:34, Dave Godwin via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> No.
> 
> It’s completely isolated/dedicated.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Apr 6, 2021, at 16:56, David Risch via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I hope you not sourcing water from that port water tank.  Was told to never 
>> source fresh water flush from a tank you may be using for consumption, 
>> washing etc.  I plumbed a fresh water flush via sink drain “T”.   Easily 
>> found on internet.
>>  
>> From: Dave Godwin via CnC-List  
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:40 PM
>> To: C List 
>> Cc: Dave Godwin 
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead
>>  
>> Perhaps another route to consider is converting to a fresh water system. On 
>> our new boat a previous owner converted the sea-water Lavac vacuum head to 
>> freshwater, the source being the port side water tank. Seems to be very good 
>> at keeping the odor down although we haven’t had the boat through a summer 
>> season yet.
>>  
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
>> 1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana
>> Reedville, VA
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:00 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Note to self – keep old head.
>>  
>>  
>> Joe Della Barba
>> Coquina C 35 MK I
>> Kent Island MD USA
>>  
>>  
>> From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
>> To: Stus-List 
>> Cc: Della Barba, Joe ; Neil Andersen 
>> 
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead
>>  
>> FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to 
>> sell.
>>  
>> Neil Andersen
>> S Yachts
>> 443-321-1969
>> sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
>> send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
>>  
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Dennis, either that or just set her up by the lee and boogie with the weather 
rail awash! :)
We actually went wing and wing  by the lee for a couple of miles with the 
asymmetric kite on the Baltic 47 in a windy race last summer. But Masquerade is 
post IOR and a lot easier to keep on the edge without going over than, say, the 
C 40.

Andy

Andrew Burton
26 Beacon Hill
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 15:55, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
> hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
> for oscillation and loss of control.
> 
> While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
> center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
> slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
> chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
> oscillation and ultimately a death roll.  
> 
> I'd rather broach than do a death roll!
> 
> To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
> short to me.
> 
>   -- 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Bruno,
>> 
>> Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.
>> 
>> Joel
>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:
>>> 
>>> The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
>>> foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat
>>> 
>>> I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be 
>>> used as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: um From richard - now Airhead

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

No.

It’s completely isolated/dedicated.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 16:56, David Risch via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I hope you not sourcing water from that port water tank.  Was told to never 
> source fresh water flush from a tank you may be using for consumption, 
> washing etc.  I plumbed a fresh water flush via sink drain “T”.   Easily 
> found on internet.
>  
> From: Dave Godwin via CnC-List  
> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:40 PM
> To: C List 
> Cc: Dave Godwin 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead
>  
> Perhaps another route to consider is converting to a fresh water system. On 
> our new boat a previous owner converted the sea-water Lavac vacuum head to 
> freshwater, the source being the port side water tank. Seems to be very good 
> at keeping the odor down although we haven’t had the boat through a summer 
> season yet.
>  
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> 1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana
> Reedville, VA
> 
> 
> On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:00 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>  
>  
> Note to self – keep old head.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina C 35 MK I
> Kent Island MD USA
>  
>  
> From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe ; Neil Andersen 
> 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead
>  
> FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to 
> sell.
>  
> Neil Andersen
> S Yachts
> 443-321-1969
> sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
> send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Where’s your sense of adventure, Dennis?

 

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 3:56 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

 

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
for oscillation and loss of control.

 

While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.  

 

I'd rather broach than do a death roll!

 

To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
short to me.

 

  -- 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

Bruno, I tried what you are thinking about. It didn’t work. Dennis is right, 
you do not want three feet of halyard swinging your chute around – it does not 
get pretty. And, if you have the pole hoisted up in the air to get the chute 
hoisted all the way, you have a higher center of effort for that chute and it 
will move around, which is what you don’t want in heavy weather. The ultimate 
trick would be to have a separate halyard attached three feet down the mast 
just for that chute, but on our masthead boats, you will get all tangled up 
with the forestay. Sorry.

 

Gary – 30-1

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:56 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

 

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully 
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the potential 
for oscillation and loss of control.

 

While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the 
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer a 
slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the 
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of 
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.  

 

I'd rather broach than do a death roll!

 

To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee bit 
short to me.

 

  -- 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Bruno,

 

Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.

 

Joel

 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:

 

The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat

 

I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used 
as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5 

 

 




 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: um From richard - now Airhead

[David Risch via CnC-List]

I hope you not sourcing water from that port water tank.  Was told to never 
source fresh water flush from a tank you may be using for consumption, washing 
etc.  I plumbed a fresh water flush via sink drain "T".   Easily found on 
internet.

From: Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:40 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Dave Godwin 
Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

Perhaps another route to consider is converting to a fresh water system. On our 
new boat a previous owner converted the sea-water Lavac vacuum head to 
freshwater, the source being the port side water tank. Seems to be very good at 
keeping the odor down although we haven't had the boat through a summer season 
yet.

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana
Reedville, VA


On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:00 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Note to self - keep old head.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I
Kent Island MD USA


From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>; 
Neil Andersen 
mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to 
sell.

Neil Andersen
S Yachts
443-321-1969
sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

It does make a difference with odor.  Only down side is you use freshwater 
faster.

Neil

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661
484-354-8800

From: Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:40:20 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Dave Godwin 
Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

Perhaps another route to consider is converting to a fresh water system. On our 
new boat a previous owner converted the sea-water Lavac vacuum head to 
freshwater, the source being the port side water tank. Seems to be very good at 
keeping the odor down although we haven’t had the boat through a summer season 
yet.

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana
Reedville, VA

On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:00 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Note to self – keep old head.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I
Kent Island MD USA


From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>; 
Neil Andersen 
mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to 
sell.

Neil Andersen
S Yachts
443-321-1969
sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Peter Kirkwood via CnC-List]

I’ve got a rule .

 No boom boom on the boat

Renaissance
1975 38-2
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:01 PM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
> Note to self – keep old head.
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> Coquina C 35 MK I
>
> Kent Island MD USA
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Neil Andersen via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe ; Neil Andersen <
> neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead
>
>
>
> FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder
> to sell.
>
>
>
> Neil Andersen
>
> S Yachts
>
> 443-321-1969
>
> sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal
> to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

A heavy weather chute should have narrow shoulders.  It should be fully
hoisted.  Failure to fully hoist in heavy weather will increase the
potential for oscillation and loss of control.

While we're on heavy weather spin flying, on Touche', we never ever let the
center seam cross to the weather side of the forestay.  That is, we prefer
a slightly reaching trim as opposed to a dead downwind trim.  Trimming the
chute's center seam to weather of the forestay increases the chances of
oscillation and ultimately a death roll.

I'd rather broach than do a death roll!

To answer the question, talk to your sailmaker.  This chute sounds a wee
bit short to me.

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Bruno,
>
> Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.
>
> Joel
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:
>>
>> The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and
>> a foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat
>>
>> I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would
>> be used as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5
>>
>>
>>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Perhaps another route to consider is converting to a fresh water system. On our 
new boat a previous owner converted the sea-water Lavac vacuum head to 
freshwater, the source being the port side water tank. Seems to be very good at 
keeping the odor down although we haven’t had the boat through a summer season 
yet.

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
1998 Mast & Mallet Thomas Point 34 - Katana
Reedville, VA

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:00 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>  
> Note to self – keep old head.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina C 35 MK I
> Kent Island MD USA
>  
>  
> From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List  > 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
> To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe  >; Neil Andersen 
> mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead
>  
> FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to 
> sell.
>  
> Neil Andersen
> S Yachts
> 443-321-1969
>> sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
>> send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>   Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>   Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

 

Note to self - keep old head.

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:13 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe ; Neil Andersen

Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

 

FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to
sell.

 

Neil Andersen

S Yachts

443-321-1969

sts involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Sounds like what we used to call a “Chicken chute,” Bruno. 
A heavy air kite should be narrower at the top and flatter than than your 
regular kite... do hoist it all the way up or you will find it will oscillate 
more and steer the boat for you...perhaps in directions you don’t want to go! 
Three feet shy on the hoist sounds a bit small to me, but maybe go and hoist 
the end of your pole up three feet while you’re at the dock and see what you 
think. You should be able to make the foot length work. 
Andy

Andrew Burton
26 Beacon Hill
Newport, RI 
USA 02840

+401 965 5260
https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/



> On Apr 6, 2021, at 12:22, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Bruno,
> 
> Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.
> 
> Joel
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:
>> 
>> The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
>> foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat
>> 
>> I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be 
>> used as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5 
>> 
>> Is this acceptable for a smaller heavier chute or is it too short and the 
>> pole will be too high ? 
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Bruno Lachance
>> Bécassine, 33-2
>> New-Richmond, Qc
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

FYI.  As a broker, we are finding that composting head make a boat harder to 
sell.

Neil Andersen
S Yachts
443-321-1969

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661
484-354-8800

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 7:29:33 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead


How do you like the Air Head?





Joe Della Barba

Coquina





From: Chris Riedinger via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 10:51 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: richard hosker ; Chris Riedinger 

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: From richard



Good fricken luck



That tank is accessible by removing the head sink and surround trim.



Our dip tube broke off inside the tank, so I reached my arm into our (very 
full) tank, reconnected the dip tube, then pumped out the tank, promptly bought 
an airhead composting toilet, removed all of the old marine head plumbing etc 
and cut out the tank in pieces (since removing it in one piece is quite labor 
intensive), and installed the airhead.



We live aboard and I think the airhead was one of our better improvements.



I used the extra space under the sink to add a diesel heater and ran the vents 
into the head and our aft cabin. It dries out our gear exceptionally well and 
warms our toes on cold nights when the electric radiator in the salon isn't 
enough.. I digress ?





uted to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your 
support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Coal tar bottom paint removal?

[jim aridas via CnC-List]

Just an aside on the true coal tar epoxy, like what rustolem co sells. My 82' 
C 34 had a cast iron centerboard. wire wheeled the board, painted 2 coats of 
coal tar and after 12 yrs of owning the boat there was no sign of rust bleeding 
thru. Awesome stuff for protecting steel in salt water !
Jim Aridas
Previously Galaxy 34' 1982 K/CB


From: Dave via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 2:08 PM
To: Matt Janssen ; Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe ; Dave 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Coal tar bottom paint removal?


Matt – thanks for the detail, very very much appreciated. Yes likely VC tar.   
My Dutch/Scottish heart also warms to the reuse of a disposable brush, gripped 
in a very tight fist.   



Dave



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Matt Janssen
Sent: April 5, 2021 11:03 AM
To: Stus-List; Dave S
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Coal tar bottom paint removal?



Dave,



Is it possible you are trying to remove VC Tar or similar?



Coal tar epoxy is the corrosion protection system we typically spec for steel 
sheets in a marine environment. Bluewater makes a bottom barrier coat for 
boats, but I suspect it's for commercial use on steel hull barges etc.



If you're dealing with VC Tar as Joe and others have suggested, then misery 
loves company. I am the final stretch of the same project.



For me the tar was softer, it smelled terrible and was still somewhat tacky in 
warm temps. After much trial and error I settled on two techniques that worked 
for me.

  1.  Chemical stripping - I used Citristrip and a glass cleaner 

 (4-inch wide razor blade) in lieu of a putty knife. With the razor blade (lots 
of replacement blades), and a little practice, i was able to peel off two or 
three layers of paint at a time and leave a smooth fair surface. On the tar, i 
was able to get between the tar and gel coat without gouging the hull. My boat 
was raced by the original owner and had a decent bottom, but had suffered from 
paint build up. While this sounds tedious, it minimized the fairing and 
longboarding. The rub is the stripper needs the temps to be close to 60-F 
(15-C) to work and needs to sit for at least an hour or two. If you're in 
direct sunlight or windy, you'll want to cover the stripper with plastic. You 
want to avoid letting it dry out. (Another boat in the yard didn't use plastic, 
but just mist the gel with a water bottle to keep it from drying out.) With the 
citristrip, i was able to apply it and leave it overnight covered with plastic 
and then come back to scrape it the next day. It seemed to work up to about 
3-layers of paint.
  2.  Mechanical Removal - Unfortunately, I counted 12 separate colors of 
bottom paint before getting to the tar, i'm located in the NE and with a hard 
launch date, i had to use a mix of chemical and mechanical removal. The only 
system that worked for me without destroying the hull shape was a 6-inch random 
orbital sander using 80-grit Mirka Abranet pads. The Mirka are a mesh pad and 
do not clog with the tar as long as your dust collection system is decent. I 
used a home depot dust stopper 

  separator before the shop vac. It is stupid expensive for what it is... but 
it really works and saves your shop vac filters. I could get 10 to 15 minutes 
out of the Mirka pads. I've gone through close to 30-pads in the project.



I tried using traditional 36-grit pads but they were dulled after about 
5-minutes. Also tried the Bahco carbide scrapers. Those worked well for level 
surfaces (e.g the rudder that you drop and put on saw horses) but it was tough 
sledding to work on your back under the hull. If you do go that route, bevel 
the edges of the blades and you won't gouge the hull.



If you're still here, a few other lessons I learned the hard way.



Managing heat on the pads was important. The Mirka pads do not insulate the 
hooks from heat. So you'll absolutely need to use pad protectors. If you don't, 
you'll melt the hooks on your sander and your disks will be flying off the 
sander by lunch on the first day. I lost a few days waiting for new parts when 
this happened to me... I also found lighter pressure on the sander worked 
better. Letting the pad spin faster allowed it to chew more of the material 
away. Easier on the shoulders too.



Switching back to the stripper, I applied with a chip brush. Someone in the 
yard pointed out that i should only be brushing in one direction. Most have a 
wax in them that helps prevent drying out. Applying in one direction certainly 
helped increase the working time of the gel. Being dutch, i was 

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Coal tar bottom paint removal?

[Matthew via CnC-List]

FWIW, I don’t like that type of bristle for most epoxy work (I use West System) 
as hairs come out and get stuck in the epoxy.  I use plastic bristle 
throw-aways instead.  However, if you cut the bristles short on the hair 
brushes, they are very good for pushing West System/colloidal silica mixture 
into tight places.

 

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 12:20 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Coal tar bottom paint removal?

 

A box of chip brushes lasts me a few years and if you do a lot of boat projects 
and stuff around the house, it saves a ton of money to buy in bulk.  I use them 
for epoxy, painting, varnishing and throw away after use.   

  

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Brushes-Stains-Varnishes-Acrylics/dp/B078XJ2DCJ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=V18C3HO3BGC2
 

 
=1=chip+brushes+2+inch+bulk=1617725693=chip+brush%2Caps%2C216=8-1-spons=1=A1HD84JZ5JR3NU=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTlNNlhOUlNMS1kxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQ1NDc0MUVNR01XTEs3SlhLNSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTYzODM3RFgwWjJCNjNKVjAwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
 

  

Chuck S 

  

  

On 04/05/2021 11:30 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

  

  

While I don't have a tar bottom, I enjoyed this thorough account as there are 
some good general tips. What is a chip brush? 

  

Thanks 


-- 

Shawn Wright 

shawngwri...@gmail.com   

S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35 

https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto 

 

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:03 AM Matt Janssen via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com  > wrote: 

Dave, 

  

Is it possible you are trying to remove VC Tar or similar?  

  

Coal tar epoxy is the corrosion protection system we typically spec for steel 
sheets in a marine environment. Bluewater makes a bottom barrier coat for 
boats, but I suspect it's for commercial use on steel hull barges etc.  

  

If you're dealing with VC Tar as Joe and others have suggested, then misery 
loves company. I am the final stretch of the same project. 

  

For me the tar was softer, it smelled terrible and was still somewhat tacky in 
warm temps. After much trial and error I settled on two techniques that worked 
for me.  

1.  Chemical stripping - I used Citristrip and a glass cleaner  

 (4-inch wide razor blade) in lieu of a putty knife. With the razor blade (lots 
of replacement blades), and a little practice, i was able to peel off two or 
three layers of paint at a time and leave a smooth fair surface. On the tar, i 
was able to get between the tar and gel coat without gouging the hull. My boat 
was raced by the original owner and had a decent bottom, but had suffered from 
paint build up. While this sounds tedious, it minimized the fairing and 
longboarding. The rub is the stripper needs the temps to be close to 60-F 
(15-C) to work and needs to sit for at least an hour or two. If you're in 
direct sunlight or windy, you'll want to cover the stripper with plastic. You 
want to avoid letting it dry out. (Another boat in the yard didn't use plastic, 
but just mist the gel with a water bottle to keep it from drying out.) With the 
citristrip, i was able to apply it and leave it overnight covered with plastic 
and then come back to scrape it the next day. It seemed to work up to about 
3-layers of paint.   
2.  Mechanical Removal - Unfortunately, I counted 12 separate colors of 
bottom paint before getting to the tar, i'm located in the NE and with a hard 
launch date, i had to use a mix of chemical and mechanical removal. The only 
system that worked for me without destroying the hull shape was a 6-inch random 
orbital sander using 80-grit Mirka Abranet pads. The Mirka are a mesh pad and 
do not clog with the tar as long as your dust collection system is decent. I 
used a home depot dust stopper 

   separator before the shop vac. It is stupid expensive for what it is... but 
it really works and saves your shop vac filters. I could get 10 to 15 minutes 
out of the Mirka pads. I've gone through close to 30-pads in the project.

  

I tried using traditional 36-grit pads but they were dulled after about 
5-minutes. Also tried the Bahco carbide scrapers. Those worked well for level 
surfaces (e.g the rudder that you drop and put on saw horses) but it was tough 

Stus-List Re: Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Bruno,

Sounds about right.  Just don't hoist the chute to the masthead.

Joel

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bruno Lachance via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:
>
> The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and
> a foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat
>
> I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be
> used as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5
>
> Is this acceptable for a smaller heavier chute or is it too short and the
> pole will be too high ?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Bruno Lachance
> Bécassine, 33-2
> New-Richmond, Qc
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu



-- 
Joel
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Coal tar bottom paint removal?

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

A box of chip brushes lasts me a few years and if you do a lot of boat projects 
and stuff around the house, it saves a ton of money to buy in bulk.  I use them 
for epoxy, painting, varnishing and throw away after use.  

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Brushes-Stains-Varnishes-Acrylics/dp/B078XJ2DCJ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=V18C3HO3BGC2=1=chip+brushes+2+inch+bulk=1617725693=chip+brush%2Caps%2C216=8-1-spons=1=A1HD84JZ5JR3NU=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTlNNlhOUlNMS1kxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQ1NDc0MUVNR01XTEs3SlhLNSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTYzODM3RFgwWjJCNjNKVjAwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Chuck S



> On 04/05/2021 11:30 AM Shawn Wright via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> While I don't have a tar bottom, I enjoyed this thorough account as there 
> are some good general tips. What is a chip brush?
>  
> Thanks
> --
> Shawn Wright
> shawngwri...@gmail.com mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com
> S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
> https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto
> 
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:03 AM Matt Janssen via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > Dave,
> >  
> > Is it possible you are trying to remove VC Tar or similar? 
> >  
> > Coal tar epoxy is the corrosion protection system we typically spec 
> > for steel sheets in a marine environment. Bluewater makes a bottom barrier 
> > coat for boats, but I suspect it's for commercial use on steel hull barges 
> > etc. 
> >  
> > If you're dealing with VC Tar as Joe and others have suggested, 
> > then misery loves company. I am the final stretch of the same project.
> >  
> > For me the tar was softer, it smelled terrible and was still 
> > somewhat tacky in warm temps. After much trial and error I settled on two 
> > techniques that worked for me. 
> >1. Chemical stripping - I used Citristrip and a glass cleaner 
> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Anvil-4-in-Glass-and-Tile-Scraper-GTS-ANV/309996591
> >  (4-inch wide razor blade) in lieu of a putty knife. With the razor blade 
> > (lots of replacement blades), and a little practice, i was able to peel off 
> > two or three layers of paint at a time and leave a smooth fair surface. On 
> > the tar, i was able to get between the tar and gel coat without gouging the 
> > hull. My boat was raced by the original owner and had a decent bottom, but 
> > had suffered from paint build up. While this sounds tedious, it minimized 
> > the fairing and longboarding. The rub is the stripper needs the temps to be 
> > close to 60-F (15-C) to work and needs to sit for at least an hour or two. 
> > If you're in direct sunlight or windy, you'll want to cover the stripper 
> > with plastic. You want to avoid letting it dry out. (Another boat in the 
> > yard didn't use plastic, but just mist the gel with a water bottle to keep 
> > it from drying out.) With the citristrip, i was able to apply it and leave 
> > it overnight covered with plastic and then come back to scrape it the next 
> > day. It seemed to work up to about 3-layers of paint.   
> >2. Mechanical Removal - Unfortunately, I counted 12 separate 
> > colors of bottom paint before getting to the tar, i'm located in the NE and 
> > with a hard launch date, i had to use a mix of chemical and mechanical 
> > removal. The only system that worked for me without destroying the hull 
> > shape was a 6-inch random orbital sander using 80-grit Mirka Abranet pads. 
> > The Mirka are a mesh pad and do not clog with the tar as long as your dust 
> > collection system is decent. I used a home depot dust stopper  
> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dustopper-HD12-High-Efficiency-Dust-Separator-HD12A/315749552
> >   separator before the shop vac. It is stupid expensive for what it is... 
> > but it really works and saves your shop vac filters. I could get 10 to 15 
> > minutes out of the Mirka pads. I've gone through close to 30-pads in the 
> > project.
> >  
> > I tried using traditional 36-grit pads but they were dulled after 
> > about 5-minutes. Also tried the Bahco carbide scrapers. Those worked well 
> > for level surfaces (e.g the rudder that you drop and put on saw horses) but 
> > it was tough sledding to work on your back under the hull. If you do go 
> > that route, bevel the edges of the blades and you won't gouge the hull.  
> >  
> > If you're still here, a few other lessons I learned the hard way. 
> >  
> > Managing heat on the pads was important. The Mirka pads do not 
> > insulate the hooks from heat. So you'll absolutely need to use pad 
> > protectors. If you don't, you'll melt the hooks on your sander and your 
> > disks will be flying off the sander by lunch on the first day. I lost a few 
> > days waiting for new parts when this happened to me... I also found lighter 
> > pressure on the 

Stus-List Heavy spinnaker sizing vs medium/light for 33-2

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Question for the spinnaker gurus of the group:

The light/medium sym spinfor my 33-2 has a luff/leech lenght of 44 ft and a 
foot of 23.3 ft. This is a sail designed for this boat

I'm looking at a used spin that seems to be a heavier cloth, that would be used 
as a S-3. The dimensions are Luff: 40.8 / foot: 21.5

Is this acceptable for a smaller heavier chute or is it too short and the pole 
will be too high ?

Thank you!

Bruno Lachance
Bécassine, 33-2
New-Richmond, Qc


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I will chime in here with a glowing recommendation for the Airhead composting 
toilet.  I’ve had mine for more than five years now.  I used the space that was 
used for the old holding tank for an extra diesel fuel tank.

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Apr 6, 2021, at 7:29 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> How do you like the Air Head?
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
>  
>  
> From: Chris Riedinger via CnC-List  
> Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 10:51 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: richard hosker ; Chris Riedinger 
> 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: From richard
>  
> Good fricken luck
>  
> That tank is accessible by removing the head sink and surround trim. 
>  
> Our dip tube broke off inside the tank, so I reached my arm into our (very 
> full) tank, reconnected the dip tube, then pumped out the tank, promptly 
> bought an airhead composting toilet, removed all of the old marine head 
> plumbing etc and cut out the tank in pieces (since removing it in one piece 
> is quite labor intensive), and installed the airhead. 
>  
> We live aboard and I think the airhead was one of our better improvements. 
>  
> I used the extra space under the sink to add a diesel heater and ran the 
> vents into the head and our aft cabin. It dries out our gear exceptionally 
> well and warms our toes on cold nights when the electric radiator in the 
> salon isn't enough.. I digress 
>  
>  
> uted to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your 
> support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: From richard - now Airhead

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

How do you like the Air Head?


Joe Della Barba
Coquina


From: Chris Riedinger via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 5, 2021 10:51 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: richard hosker ; Chris Riedinger 

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: From richard

Good fricken luck

That tank is accessible by removing the head sink and surround trim.

Our dip tube broke off inside the tank, so I reached my arm into our (very 
full) tank, reconnected the dip tube, then pumped out the tank, promptly bought 
an airhead composting toilet, removed all of the old marine head plumbing etc 
and cut out the tank in pieces (since removing it in one piece is quite labor 
intensive), and installed the airhead.

We live aboard and I think the airhead was one of our better improvements.

I used the extra space under the sink to add a diesel heater and ran the vents 
into the head and our aft cabin. It dries out our gear exceptionally well and 
warms our toes on cold nights when the electric radiator in the salon isn't 
enough.. I digress 


uted to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your 
support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu