Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[Randal Stafford via CnC-List]

This debate has raged within Colorado Sail & Yacht Club for the last several 
years.  The J/22 racers argue that the larger PHRF boats (spinnaker or not) 
should sail windward/leeward courses like they do.  The larger PHRF boats 
(including spinnaker boats) like reaching because that’s when they’re fastest.  
And it’s not unusual for RC’s best-laid plans to be ruined by mother nature 
(e.g. 180-degree wind shifts after a race has started on a course around fixed 
buoys).

I conclude that a single rating number is a poor compromise across multiple 
points of sail and a range of wind speeds - it’s like estimating a surface with 
a point.  I win when it’s blowing hard, but get beat in light air by asym boats 
on broad reach.  There’s no way a single number can equalize boats across all 
possible courses and conditions.

So as an experiment we’ve done what Donald Kern mentioned in another reply - 
sometimes we make the J/22s and Capri 22s sail triangles in addition to W/L, 
and the larger PHRF boats sail W/L in addition to triangles, using long courses 
that combine course types.  At the very least it gives us some empathy for each 
other.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #79
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Sep 10, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Joe, Kenny Read agrees with you. He wrote an article to that effect some 
> months ago. 
> 
> Andy
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 26 Beacon Hill
> Newport, RI 
> USA 02840
> 
> +401 965 5260
> https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 12:35, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I have been in races that were almost 100% downwind or 100% upwind, thanks 
>> to perfect timing of wind shifts. Somehow it worked out and the PHRF ratings 
>> are what they are and we dealt with it.
>> 
>> I know many people disagree, but IMHO making big boat racing resemble dinghy 
>> racing and making dinghy racing a science experiment with perfect upwind and 
>> downwind legs has not been a good thing at all. I once had 3 dinghy fleets 
>> and sent the Lasers reaching up the river a bit to deconflict them with the 
>> other fleets and I never heard so much whining – we can’t sail on a REACH! 
>> It turned out you actually can if the RC makes you 
>> 
>> YMMV
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> Coquina
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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Stus-List Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[Donald Kern via CnC-List]

At one time we use to set the triangle and run the boats around the 
triangle, then windward leeward (beat, reach, reach, beat, downwind).  
That course always seemed better for different generation boats since it 
involved all points of sail.
Now if the organizer sets a W/L course the lightweight A-sym boats sail 
a course close to triangle reach course, the med displ symmetric spin 
boats sail a broader reach downwind and the heavier symmetric spin (like 
my 35 mk2) sail close to down wind.  Can never figure out who is ahead 
until we cross the finish line.


Don Kern
/Fireball/, C Mk2
Bristol, RI


On 9/10/2021 12:54 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List wrote:
The problem is with the handicap numbers.  A triangle course has only  
33% beat, if equilateral.  The more you spread out the offset mark, 
the less percentage the beat; the more you pull it in, the higher 
percentage beat.
For PHRF to work, I believe they recommend at least a 40% beat.  
Preferred is a 50% beat like a windward/leeward or a triangle with an 
extra beat.
On a dead downwind course one should sail their best angle for the 
wind speed, not go dead downwind.  That's true even for the white sail 
fleet.  There was a great article decades ago about the pole adjusted 
forward to improve the broad reach for white sailed boats. But with my 
filing system, I'll never be able to produce it if asked.

Ron
Wild Cheri
C 30-1
STL


On Friday, September 10, 2021, 11:31:22 AM CDT, Della Barba, Joe via 
CnC-List  wrote:



This is an ongoing issue with racing, everything is W/L dinghy racing 
no matter if your boat is 10 feet long or 110 feet long. Back in the 
day when men were men and sheep were scared we used government marks 
and you got what you got, reaches, beats, runs, whatever.


When I used to RC C races I decided dead downwind on a hot day was 
misery for the white sail fleet, so the spinnaker boats went on a W/L 
course and the non-spin fleet used the same windward mark but had an 
offset somewhere, say beam reach to the offset and then broad reach to 
finish. Less tactics but less heatstroke too!




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


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Stus-List C 25 mast fittings

[MARK J GOVONI via CnC-List]

I did exactly this with my '73 25 about two years ago.  Removed it myself, 
dropped it off at Rigging Only (Fairhaven, MA), picked it up about a week later 
and reinstalled it.  They even provide the shear pins and cotter pins.

Mark G
C 25 Williwaw
Mattapoisett, MA


My local rigger is taking no chances re-rigging my 95 C 36XL. He sent it all 
to Rigging Only(?) in Rhode Is and will reinstall with new which has been 
matched exactly. Some parts of older rigging are often not available and must 
be replaced with similar or manufactured ($$$) to match.   I bit the bullet and 
paid an expert to reduce the chance of a personal gravity storm!! CharlieWater 
PhantomThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Baby stay vs new headsail

[Andrew Means via CnC-List]

We just removed our babystay and never looked back. We've never missed it,
even when bashing to windward in swells. I will say though the genoa sheets
do get caught more often on random stuff on the foredeck (hatches, vents,
etc.) that otherwise they would be kept clear of.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 9:29 PM Peter McMinn via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We’ve been sailing this summer with two exhausted composite headsails
> (110&125) purchased with our 37, Sirius.
>
> The leeches on both sails reveal a tortured past with the babystay. With a
> new Precision tiradial 120 coming over winter, we’re practicing tacks with
> no babystay contact, backwinding lightly to pull the sail over.
>
> Improvement needed.
>
> For those of you with babystays, what strategies do you employ to avoid
> sail contact with the stay and/or minimizing damage?
>
> I’ll search archives, too. Thx
>
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
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Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 Agreed.  You sail the course provided.  However, if the PRO picks the average 
wind direction, sets the marks and then lets it alone, one has at least tried 
for the course that best fits the handicapping procedure.RonWild Cheri

On Friday, September 10, 2021, 01:35:56 PM CDT, Della Barba, Joe via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
 
I have been in races that were almost 100% downwind or 100% upwind, thanks to 
perfect timing of wind shifts. Somehow it worked out and the PHRF ratings are 
what they are and we dealt with it.
 
I know many people disagree, but IMHO making big boat racing resemble dinghy 
racing and making dinghy racing a science experiment with perfect upwind and 
downwind legs has not been a good thing at all. I once had 3 dinghy fleets and 
sent the Lasers reaching up the river a bit to deconflict them with the other 
fleets and I never heard so much whining – we can’t sail on a REACH! It turned 
out you actually can if the RC makes you
 


  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: 84 Landfall 35 vs 91 Morris Justine 36

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Now that we're back home to local waters of BC's Gulf Islands where good
anchorages are every few miles, and not trying to get anywhere, I am
enjoying just sailing where the wind and current take us. I'm finding
surprising speed on reaches... Yesterday we almost caught up to a Beneteau
that was motoring across the channel in 6-10 of breeze, with just our genoa
on a beam reach.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 07:00 Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> With regard to the reaching capabilities of the 35-1 and 35-2, when the RC
> set a teaching course, some of my competition said to me before the race
> “they might as well give Touche’ the trophy now”.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touché 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List C 33-II vs 35-II

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Matthew said " What you’re saying is impossible. "

Matthew, can you clarify what it is exactly that I said was 
impossible.   I may have misunderstood if it was me you referring to or 
your RC?


Robert Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.

On 2021-09-10 10:33 a.m., Matthew via CnC-List wrote:


That’s interesting.  I keep having issues with my local RC because 
they set only windward/leeward courses, no triangles and no reaches.  
The reported rationale is that “no one ever passes anybody on a 
reach.”  What you’re saying is impossible.


*From:* Robert Abbott via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 9:23 AM
*To:* Stus-List 
*Cc:* Robert Abbott 
*Subject:* Stus-List C 33-II vs 35-II

Some years back when were campaigning a 33-II, we were racing her in 
the Bras d'Or Lakes.there was 35-II from Shediac, NB with a good 
crew.  The course was a beat, reach and runevery race was the 
same, the 33-ii would get to the first windward mark ahead the 35-II, 
but once on the reach and run, loose it all back.   There was nothing 
we could do to change it after 5 races.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


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Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Joe, Kenny Read agrees with you. He wrote an article to that effect some months 
ago. 

Andy

Andrew Burton
26 Beacon Hill
Newport, RI 
USA 02840

+401 965 5260
https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/



> On Sep 10, 2021, at 12:35, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have been in races that were almost 100% downwind or 100% upwind, thanks to 
> perfect timing of wind shifts. Somehow it worked out and the PHRF ratings are 
> what they are and we dealt with it.
> 
> I know many people disagree, but IMHO making big boat racing resemble dinghy 
> racing and making dinghy racing a science experiment with perfect upwind and 
> downwind legs has not been a good thing at all. I once had 3 dinghy fleets 
> and sent the Lasers reaching up the river a bit to deconflict them with the 
> other fleets and I never heard so much whining – we can’t sail on a REACH! It 
> turned out you actually can if the RC makes you 
> 
> YMMV
> 
> Joe
> 
> Coquina
> 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have been in races that were almost 100% downwind or 100% upwind, thanks to 
perfect timing of wind shifts. Somehow it worked out and the PHRF ratings are 
what they are and we dealt with it.
I know many people disagree, but IMHO making big boat racing resemble dinghy 
racing and making dinghy racing a science experiment with perfect upwind and 
downwind legs has not been a good thing at all. I once had 3 dinghy fleets and 
sent the Lasers reaching up the river a bit to deconflict them with the other 
fleets and I never heard so much whining – we can’t sail on a REACH! It turned 
out you actually can if the RC makes you 
YMMV
Joe
Coquina

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[cenelson via CnC-List]

W/L racing is also ‘encouraged’ by some PROs when their mark boats are limited 
to only 1. Much easier to adjust the course if you only need to either adjust 
the line or move only 1 or at most 2 marks (W and L).
Moving a jibe mark efficiently to provide a ‘more perfect’ triangle usually 
requires another mark boat.
If your PRO is on the ‘perfect’ side, 
He/she will insist on moving all marks if the wind shifts significantly—more 
difficult and time consuming with a jibe mark.
Such a PRO lets ‘..the perfect be the enemy of the good..’ IMHO.
As a club PHRF racer and a sailor, I never expect a perfect course, W/L or 
triangle—you deal with what you have from nature,a shifting wind, waves, 
etc.Those sailors who adapt to conditions, including a skewed course, either 
better or faster or both or with a different sail, etc. will often be in the 
podium, not whining about the skewed course from their position in the audience.
If the sailors of long ago waited for perfect conditions, they would rarely 
been able to leave their home port!!
Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Friday, September 10, 2021, 12:55 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 The problem is with the handicap numbers.  A triangle course has only  33% 
beat, if equilateral.  The more you spread out the offset mark, the less 
percentage the beat; the more you pull it in, the higher percentage beat.For 
PHRF to work, I believe they recommend at least a 40% beat.  Preferred is a 50% 
beat like a windward/leeward or a triangle with an extra beat.On a dead 
downwind course one should sail their best angle for the wind speed, not go 
dead downwind.  That's true even for the white sail fleet.  There was a great 
article decades ago about the pole adjusted forward to improve the broad reach 
for white sailed boats.  But with my filing system, I'll never be able to 
produce it if asked.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL

On Friday, September 10, 2021, 11:31:22 AM CDT, Della Barba, Joe via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
  
This is an ongoing issue with racing, everything is W/L dinghy racing no matter 
if your boat is 10 feet long or 110 feet long. Back in the day when men were 
men and sheep were scared we used government marks and you got what you got, 
reaches, beats, runs, whatever.
 
When I used to RC C races I decided dead downwind on a hot day was misery for 
the white sail fleet, so the spinnaker boats went on a W/L course and the 
non-spin fleet used the same windward mark but had an offset somewhere, say 
beam reach to the offset and then broad reach to finish. Less tactics but less 
heatstroke too!
 


  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 The problem is with the handicap numbers.  A triangle course has only  33% 
beat, if equilateral.  The more you spread out the offset mark, the less 
percentage the beat; the more you pull it in, the higher percentage beat.For 
PHRF to work, I believe they recommend at least a 40% beat.  Preferred is a 50% 
beat like a windward/leeward or a triangle with an extra beat.On a dead 
downwind course one should sail their best angle for the wind speed, not go 
dead downwind.  That's true even for the white sail fleet.  There was a great 
article decades ago about the pole adjusted forward to improve the broad reach 
for white sailed boats.  But with my filing system, I'll never be able to 
produce it if asked.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL

On Friday, September 10, 2021, 11:31:22 AM CDT, Della Barba, Joe via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
  
This is an ongoing issue with racing, everything is W/L dinghy racing no matter 
if your boat is 10 feet long or 110 feet long. Back in the day when men were 
men and sheep were scared we used government marks and you got what you got, 
reaches, beats, runs, whatever.
 
When I used to RC C races I decided dead downwind on a hot day was misery for 
the white sail fleet, so the spinnaker boats went on a W/L course and the 
non-spin fleet used the same windward mark but had an offset somewhere, say 
beam reach to the offset and then broad reach to finish. Less tactics but less 
heatstroke too!
 


  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: 84 Landfall 35 vs 91 Morris Justine 36

[Peter Kirkwood via CnC-List]

Lots of discussion at our club on this as we started the year with set mark
racing which to me is fun -sometimes- but  there is very little to think
about in terms of strategy and tactics.  The W/L courses bring that aspect
of competition back in and is also a great way to hone boat handling
skills.  Two or 3 times a course with flying sails is a workout for sure.

Peter Kirkwood
Renaissance
1977 38 mk 2

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 10:00 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> With regard to the reaching capabilities of the 35-1 and 35-2, when the RC
> set a teaching course, some of my competition said to me before the race
> “they might as well give Touche’ the trophy now”.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touché 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: C 33-II vs 35-II

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

This is an ongoing issue with racing, everything is W/L dinghy racing no matter 
if your boat is 10 feet long or 110 feet long. Back in the day when men were 
men and sheep were scared we used government marks and you got what you got, 
reaches, beats, runs, whatever.
When I used to RC C races I decided dead downwind on a hot day was misery for 
the white sail fleet, so the spinnaker boats went on a W/L course and the 
non-spin fleet used the same windward mark but had an offset somewhere, say 
beam reach to the offset and then broad reach to finish. Less tactics but less 
heatstroke too!

Joe
Coquina
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: 84 Landfall 35 vs 91 Morris Justine 36

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

With regard to the reaching capabilities of the 35-1 and 35-2, when the RC set 
a teaching course, some of my competition said to me before the race “they 
might as well give Touche’ the trophy now”. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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Stus-List Re: 84 Landfall 35 vs 91 Morris Justine 36

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

> On Sep 10, 2021, at 8:07 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> The C 33-2 is very fast on a beat. It has PHRF 132 and the older 35-2 has 
> PHRF 120. On a beat it’s hard for the 35-2 to stay with the slower rated 
> 33-2. However from close reach to run the 35-2  excels. It is difficult for a 
> faster rated C 37 (PHRF 105) to stay with the slower rated C 35-2 on 
> those points of sail. I like sailing off the wind on a close reach, who 
> doesn’t?  That with the well know strong construction of the older 35’s was 
> one reason I got my 35-2 instead of a newer 33-2. 
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 6:17 PM Dave S via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> Lol-  never race either but if I did I’d probably notice that the 33-2 is 
>> faster than most others I encounter on the water, especially in light air, 
>> should I be noticing such things. 
>> I did get schooled last weekend by a good friend (an accomplished racer)  in 
>> a C 32 with tired sails.  (My 33-2 is faster, hands down, I’m not.) I Had 
>> to work very hard and find another gear to slowly catch up.   This in 
>> support of dwight’s point - the driver may matter more than the car.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Sep 9, 2021, at 5:05 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 
>>> Dwight, that doesn’t apply to me. I’m not like that. Besides my boat is so 
>>> fast it’s never much of a contest. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> Andrew Burton
>>> 26 Beacon Hill
>>> Newport, RI 
>>> USA 02840
>>> 
>>> +401 965 5260
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> On Sep 9, 2021, at 16:03, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
 
 For some of us a race starts every time another sail is in sight. I am a 
 little bit of that vintage lately having become more selective based on 
 potential boat speed or phrases numbers. The landfalls are great C’s. I 
 had a landfall 35 close by me in the yard. Nice and the 38 too. I like the 
 ways my 35MKII flies on that tack. Waterline length is important but sail 
 trim and crew work snd helm control are important. Get the boat in the 
 groove on that tack probably she’ll let you know
 
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 11:05 PM Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> Always pleasantly surprised at the speed of the C This past Sunday 
> with 10 to 15kn  wind I was sailing from Shelter Island with a friend in 
> a 92 Morris Justine.  On the a 13 mile run between Orient Point and 
> Westbrook CT on a beam to close reach the C Landfall consistently 
> outpaced the Morris. By the end we were probably close to 3/4 mile ahead.
> 
> I though weight might be the biggest factor but the sail area to 
> displacement favored the Morris??  Does this come down to hull shape?  
> Not sure I was out sailing him as I think he was pretty dialed in as 
> well.   I suppose the Morris may be more built for offshore maybe??  
> Would love some thoughts from the group!
> 
> Thanks in advance!!
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - 
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
> Thanks - Stu
 -- 
 Sent from Gmail Mobile
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
 the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
 Stu
>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>>> Stu
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: C 33-II vs 35-II

[Matthew via CnC-List]

That’s interesting.  I keep having issues with my local RC because they set 
only windward/leeward courses, no triangles and no reaches.  The reported 
rationale is that “no one ever passes anybody on a reach.”  What you’re saying 
is impossible. 

 

From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 9:23 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Robert Abbott 
Subject: Stus-List C 33-II vs 35-II

 

Some years back when were campaigning a 33-II, we were racing her in the Bras 
d'Or Lakes.there was 35-II from Shediac, NB with a good crew.  The course 
was a beat, reach and runevery race was the same, the 33-ii would get to 
the first windward mark ahead the 35-II, but once on the reach and run, loose 
it all back.   There was nothing we could do to change it after 5 races.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S. 




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Stus-List C 33-II vs 35-II

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Some years back when were campaigning a 33-II, we were racing her in the 
Bras d'Or Lakes.there was 35-II from Shediac, NB with a good crew.  
The course was a beat, reach and runevery race was the same, the 
33-ii would get to the first windward mark ahead the 35-II, but once on 
the reach and run, loose it all back.   There was nothing we could do to 
change it after 5 races.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.



On 2021-09-10 9:06 a.m., dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote:
The C 33-2 is very fast on a beat. It has PHRF 132 and the older 
35-2 has PHRF 120. On a beat it’s hard for the 35-2 to stay with the 
slower rated 33-2. However from close reach to run the 35-2  excels. 
It is difficult for a faster rated C 37 (PHRF 105) to stay with the 
slower rated C 35-2 on those points of sail. I like sailing off the 
wind on a close reach, who doesn’t?  That with the well know strong 
construction of the older 35’s was one reason I got my 35-2 instead of 
a newer 33-2.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 6:17 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Lol-  never race either but if I did I’d probably notice that the
33-2 is faster than most others I encounter on the water,
especially in light air, should I be noticing such things.
I did get schooled last weekend by a good friend (an accomplished
racer)  in a C 32 with tired sails.  (My 33-2 is faster, hands
down, I’m not.) I Had to work very hard and find another gear to
slowly catch up. This in support of dwight’s point - the driver
may matter more than the car.

Sent from my iPhone



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Stus-List Re: 84 Landfall 35 vs 91 Morris Justine 36

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

The C 33-2 is very fast on a beat. It has PHRF 132 and the older 35-2 has
PHRF 120. On a beat it’s hard for the 35-2 to stay with the slower rated
33-2. However from close reach to run the 35-2  excels. It is difficult for
a faster rated C 37 (PHRF 105) to stay with the slower rated C 35-2 on
those points of sail. I like sailing off the wind on a close reach, who
doesn’t?  That with the well know strong construction of the older 35’s was
one reason I got my 35-2 instead of a newer 33-2.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 6:17 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Lol-  never race either but if I did I’d probably notice that the 33-2 is
> faster than most others I encounter on the water, especially in light air,
> should I be noticing such things.
> I did get schooled last weekend by a good friend (an accomplished racer)
>  in a C 32 with tired sails.  (My 33-2 is faster, hands down, I’m not.) I
> Had to work very hard and find another gear to slowly catch up.   This in
> support of dwight’s point - the driver may matter more than the car.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2021, at 5:05 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Dwight, that doesn’t apply to me. I’m not like that. Besides my boat is
> so fast it’s never much of a contest. 
>
>
> Andy
>
> Andrew Burton
> 26 Beacon Hill
> 
> Newport, RI
> 
>
> USA 02840
> 
>
> +401 965 5260
> https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2021, at 16:03, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
> For some of us a race starts every time another sail is in sight. I am a
> little bit of that vintage lately having become more selective based on
> potential boat speed or phrases numbers. The landfalls are great C’s. I
> had a landfall 35 close by me in the yard. Nice and the 38 too. I like the
> ways my 35MKII flies on that tack. Waterline length is important but sail
> trim and crew work snd helm control are important. Get the boat in the
> groove on that tack probably she’ll let you know
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 11:05 PM Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Always pleasantly surprised at the speed of the C This past Sunday
>> with 10 to 15kn  wind I was sailing from Shelter Island with a friend in a
>> 92 Morris Justine.  On the a 13 mile run between Orient Point and Westbrook
>> CT on a beam to close reach the C Landfall consistently outpaced the
>> Morris. By the end we were probably close to 3/4 mile ahead.
>>
>> I though weight might be the biggest factor but the sail area to
>> displacement favored the Morris??  Does this come down to hull shape?  Not
>> sure I was out sailing him as I think he was pretty dialed in as well.   I
>> suppose the Morris may be more built for offshore maybe??  Would love some
>> thoughts from the group!
>>
>> Thanks in advance!!
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
>> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks - Stu
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu