Stus-List Re: Insurance (in Canada)

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I have decent experience with the Skipper's Plan (through Gallagher). Here is 
their website: Boat Insurance Quote | Skippers' Plan | Ontario Canada 
(skippersplan.com).

However, I have no clue how they would work for a boat much larger than what I 
have (27 ft). I like the option for "agreed value".

They changed their survey requirements lately, and now require a survey every 5 
years (it used to be 10). But there is also an option to insure without the 
survey, but then there are limitations. I dealt with Petra Fisher there (her 
email is on that web page (under Contact Us)).

Marek

1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa ON



From: Graham Collins via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 5:35 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Graham Collins 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance (in Canada)


Hi Doug

Secret plans was insured (in Nova Scotia) through Coast Underwriters, they are 
Vancouver based so presumably will cover Ontario.  They were great in paying 
out the claim, and I've got the green light from them for coverage on a 1979 
C 40 (assuming survey and mechanical go OK).  I'm with them through an 
insurance broker.

Graham Collins

Secret Plans

C 35-III #11


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Insurance (in Canada)

[Graham Collins via CnC-List]

Hi Doug

Secret plans was insured (in Nova Scotia) through Coast Underwriters, 
they are Vancouver based so presumably will cover Ontario.  They were 
great in paying out the claim, and I've got the green light from them 
for coverage on a 1979 C 40 (assuming survey and mechanical go OK).  
I'm with them through an insurance broker.


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

-Original Message-


From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Doug Robinson 
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

OOps,
Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted
I was covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take
12 to 14 days and required some work to unwind in my paypal
account.   So I will move my search to Canadian underwriters,
anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  Need to check
to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our 
time...
FDR
On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I've had Progressive for the last twelve years. Never had a
claim.  No survey required during that time.  I got it mostly for
liability and becasue marinas require it, but my policy also has a
stated "cash value" in case of loss. Each year the premium drops a
little, (like $20) so I always renew.

Chuck S

On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
  wrote:


I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year.

I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US
for that--$250/year which I may drop.

Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims
procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent?

Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a
lawyer to get them to pay a claim.

Charlie Nelson
36 XL/kcb Water Phantom
Greenville, NC


-Original Message-
From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 

To: Stus-List  
Cc: ALAN BERGEN 

Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

They didn't ask me for a survey.
Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List
 wrote:

When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the
underwriting department would review the application and
decide if a survey was needed.  After reviewing the
application, they decided a survey was not needed.
Matt Wolford
1976 C 42 Custom
*From:* Glenn Henderson via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM
*To:* Stus-List 
*Cc:* Glenn Henderson 
*Subject:* Stus-List Re: Insurance
Did they require a full survey?
Glenn and Lindsey Henderson
C 41
WeGo
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List
 wrote:

I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS).
They said my insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to
$1226/year). Just for a check, I asked Progressive for a
quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was
$487/year. I am now a Progressive customer.
Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the
list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to
show your support to the list - use PayPal to send
contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list
to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your
support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
 Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to
help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support
to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to
help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to
the list - use PayPal to send 

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[Joel Delamirande via CnC-List]

andr...@boatsmartassure.com
Try that in Canada pretty reasonable
That direct email address

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 12:14 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I’ve had good luck with Gowrie Group for Masquerade. Reasonable price and
> rock solid policy. Tell Annie Fisher I sent you.
> Andy
>
> Andrew Burton
> 26 Beacon Hill
> 
> Newport, RI
> 
>
> USA 02840
> 
>
> +401 965 5260
> https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2021, at 13:51, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US.
>
> Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after
> some delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures
> boats (or at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet.
>
> Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!
>
> Charlie Nelson
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Doug Robinson 
> Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
>
> OOps,
> Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was
> covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days
> and required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my
> search to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or
> GTA area.  Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before
> wasting our  time...
> FDR
> On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No
> survey required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and
> becasue marinas require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in
> case of loss.  Each year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always
> renew.
>
> Chuck S
>
> On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>
>
> I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year.
>
> I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for
> that--$250/year which I may drop.
>
> Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims
> procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent?
>
> Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer
> to get them to pay a claim.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom
> Greenville, NC
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
> 
> To: Stus-List  
> Cc: ALAN BERGEN  
> Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
>
> They didn't ask me for a survey.
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting
> department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.
> After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed.
>
> Matt Wolford
> 1976 C 42 Custom
>
> *From:* Glenn Henderson via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Glenn Henderson 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Insurance
>
> Did they require a full survey?
>
> Glenn and Lindsey Henderson
> C 41
> WeGo
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my
> insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check,
> I asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of
> insurance was $487/year. I am now a Progressive customer.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
>  Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send 

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Will do—the agent was independent and perhaps under different rules from 
Progressive. I tried with him since the on-line process was a PITA but if I can 
save some money, I can take a little PITA.
Charlie Nelson


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 3:31 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote:


>From their website:

Sailboat insurance limitations

We insure most sailboats and even cover racing usage, but we do have some 
limitations including:
   
   - Sailboats over 50 feet in length and valued at more than $350,000
   - Sailboats used as a primary residence (live aboards)
   - Sailboats that don’t meet published U.S. Coast Guard standards
   - Wood or steel hulls

I just upped my liability insurance cover to $500K for an extra $88 a year with 
no issues. Are you SURE about this? It took me about 10 minutes to get coverage 
online, try going straight to their website. 

  

Joe

Coquina

  

  

  

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:52 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

  

Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US. 

  

Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some 
delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats (or 
at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. 

  

Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!

  

Charlie Nelson



-Original Message-
From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Doug Robinson 
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

OOps,

Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was 
covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days and 
required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my search 
to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  
Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our  
time...

FDR

On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No survey 
required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and becasue marinas 
require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of loss.  Each 
year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew.   

  

Chuck S


On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
wrote: 

  

  

I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year. 

  

I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for 
that--$250/year which I may drop. 

  

Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims 
procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent? 

  

Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to get 
them to pay a claim. 

  

Charlie Nelson 

36 XL/kcb Water Phantom 

Greenville, NC 



-Original Message-
From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
To: Stus-List 
Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

They didn't ask me for a survey. 


Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

  

  

  

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List  
wrote: 


When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting 
department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.  
After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed. 

  

Matt Wolford 

1976 C 42 Custom 

  

From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List  
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM 
To: Stus-List  
Cc: Glenn Henderson  
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance 

  

Did they require a full survey? 

  

Glenn and Lindsey Henderson 

C 41 

WeGo 

  

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 wrote: 


I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my 
insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, I 
asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was 
$487/year. I am now a Progressive customer. 

  

Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

  

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
   Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list 

Stus-List Re: leeward layline

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

Jeff,
You are correct in that it should be the leeward mark is at a bearing of 80*, 
and yes, leeward port layline in this example.

TWD and TWA are not the same.  TWA is a reference to the boat while TWD is a 
reference to compass headings.

"Since you likely know the course to the mark, and you've already determined 
your gybing range (80 deg).  Isn't it easier to add or subtract 80 to
your course to see if it matches the bearing to the mark?"  The point of the 
math was to get to knowing that +/- 80 as bearing from current heading. Now 
that we have the math we know for the future that 2*gybing angle is bearing to 
mark. Not everyone has a chart plotter, but my GPS will tell me bearing to the 
mark.  We don't know the course to the mark; we've calculated the bearing to 
the mark and adding/subtracting that from our current heading tells us the 
heading we'll be on after the gybe.

Course and TWD aren't constant and thus this isn't a perfect calculation.  The 
bearing to the mark is the theoretical moment at which we need to gybe before 
we've overstood the mark and sailed too far.  Rounding to port, we want to gybe 
before this bearing. Rounding to starboard, we want to gybe after this bearing.

>From the example, TWD is 270 and current course is 230, so off the wind [stern 
>true wind angle or STWA] by 40. The gybing angle is 2*STWA, or 80, so course 
>after gybe is 230+80, or 310.

A different example: TWD is 75 and current course is 135. STWA is 60 so gybing 
angle is 120, bearing to mark needs to be 120, and course after gybe is 15.

Just like tacking, experience will help to determine if a fudge factor needs to 
be added.

Bob

> On 10/12/2021 8:33 AM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> I'm really not following your math here.
> Perhaps some clarification:
> TWA = True Wind Angle (I think you refer to that as TWD True Wind 
> Direction below) ie 270?
> Course  = 230 deg
> Tacking Angle = 80 deg
> New Course = 310 deg
> Course to Leeward Mark = ?
> 
> This statement is confusing to me:
> "So, when the windward mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward 
> layline"
> In this example we are going to the Leeward Mark (downwind mark).  I 
> believe you are heading to the port layline,
> The windward mark would be the one you previously rounded.
> 
> With all of the above...It seems like an aweful lot of math to do in the 
> heat of the battle.  Since you likely know the
> course to the mark, and you've already determined your gybing range (80 
> deg).  Isn't it easier to add or subtract 80 to
> your course to see if it matches the bearing to the mark?  This  can be 
> achieved from your chart plotter BTW (Bearing to
> waypoint) or via handheld compass if you can see the mark.  Maybe that's 
> what the math below does, if I plugged in
> the right numbers, but the closest I could get was 180 - course (230) = 
> 310 but if I multiply that by 2 I get a course of
> 260 which wouldn't be your layline, as you need a course of 310.  Also, 
> if I use any of those course numbers, they will
> remain constant, whereas the bearing to the mark will constantly change 
> as you get further from the rhumbline (dead down wind).
> 
> Cheers,
>Jeff Nelson
>Muir Caileag
>C - 549
>Armdale Yacht Club
> 
> On 2021-10-11 10:07 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > > My geometry for calculating leeward layline:
> > If my ideal heading for the current conditions is 230* and TWD is 
> > 270*, that means my stern has to swing 40* to become dead downwind, and 
> > another 40* to get to the reciprocal course after the jibe.  In a perfect 
> > scenario, this means an 80* swing.  So, when the windward mark is at a 
> > bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward layline.  Bearing to the mark can thus be 
> > calculated as 2 x (180-TWA).
> >  
> > Bob
> > 
> > > > > On 10/08/2021 11:15 AM Bob Mann 
> >  mailto:sailrm...@comcast.net wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > I still need to review the geometry, but I believe that when 
> > > the bearing to the mark is equal to 180-TWA, one has reached the downwind 
> > > layline.  I also found that when the masthead is pointing at the mark, 
> > > that also indicates the layline has been reached.
> > >  
> > > Bob
> > > 
> > > > > > > On 10/06/2021 11:17 AM Jeff 
> > > Nelson via CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> > > wrote:
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > Hmmm...Interesting question.
> > > > 
> > > > So, Ed's answer was pretty good, I'll add a few 
> > > > thoughts here:
> > > > 
> > > > AW isn't an ideal guide, True wind is what is needed so 
> > > > that you can keep the angle to true wind to be constant on
> > > > 

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I went to the Progressive web site, and bought my insurance from them about
a month ago.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:51 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US.
>
> Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after
> some delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures
> boats (or at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet.
>
> Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!
>
> Charlie Nelson
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Doug Robinson 
> Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
>
> OOps,
> Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was
> covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days
> and required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my
> search to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or
> GTA area.  Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before
> wasting our  time...
> FDR
> On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No
> survey required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and
> becasue marinas require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in
> case of loss.  Each year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always
> renew.
>
> Chuck S
>
> On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>
>
> I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year.
>
> I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for
> that--$250/year which I may drop.
>
> Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims
> procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent?
>
> Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer
> to get them to pay a claim.
>
> Charlie Nelson
> 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom
> Greenville, NC
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
> 
> To: Stus-List  
> Cc: ALAN BERGEN  
> Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
>
> They didn't ask me for a survey.
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting
> department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.
> After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed.
>
> Matt Wolford
> 1976 C 42 Custom
>
> *From:* Glenn Henderson via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Glenn Henderson 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Insurance
>
> Did they require a full survey?
>
> Glenn and Lindsey Henderson
> C 41
> WeGo
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my
> insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check,
> I asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of
> insurance was $487/year. I am now a Progressive customer.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
>  Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> Thanks - Stu
>
>

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

Second on Gowrie. I have my 36-1, j24 and regulator 21 with them. 

 

From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 3:14 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

 

I’ve had good luck with Gowrie Group for Masquerade. Reasonable price and rock 
solid policy. Tell Annie Fisher I sent you. 

Andy

Andrew Burton

26 Beacon Hill

Newport, RI 

USA 02840

 

+401 965 5260

https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

 

 





On Oct 12, 2021, at 13:51, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US. 

 

Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some 
delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats (or 
at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. 

 

Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!

 

Charlie Nelson



-Original Message-
From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Doug Robinson mailto:doug.robins...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

OOps,

Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was 
covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days and 
required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my search 
to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  
Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our  
time...

FDR

On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No survey 
required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and becasue marinas 
require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of loss.  Each 
year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew.   

 

Chuck S

On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
  wrote: 

 

 

I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year. 

 

I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for 
that--$250/year which I may drop. 

 

Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims 
procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent? 

 

Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to get 
them to pay a claim. 

 

Charlie Nelson 

36 XL/kcb Water Phantom 

Greenville, NC 



-Original Message-
From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List   

To: Stus-List   
Cc: ALAN BERGEN   
Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

They didn't ask me for a survey. 


Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

 

 

 

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting 
department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.  
After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed. 

  

Matt Wolford 

1976 C 42 Custom 

  

From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM 
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Cc: Glenn Henderson mailto:ghe...@gmail.com> > 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance 

  

Did they require a full survey? 

  

Glenn and Lindsey Henderson 

C 41 

WeGo 

  

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my 
insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, I 
asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was 
$487/year. I am now a Progressive customer. 

  

Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

  

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

   Thanks - Stu 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
 

Thanks - Stu 

Thanks 

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

>From their website:

Sailboat insurance limitations

We insure most sailboats and even cover racing usage, but we do have some 
limitations including:

*   Sailboats over 50 feet in length and valued at more than $350,000
*   Sailboats used as a primary residence (live aboards)
*   Sailboats that don’t meet published U.S. Coast Guard standards
*   Wood or steel hulls

I just upped my liability insurance cover to $500K for an extra $88 a year with 
no issues. Are you SURE about this? It took me about 10 minutes to get coverage 
online, try going straight to their website. 

 

Joe

Coquina

 

 

 

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:52 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

 

Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US. 

 

Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some 
delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats (or 
at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. 

 

Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!

 

Charlie Nelson



-Original Message-
From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Doug Robinson mailto:doug.robins...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

OOps,

Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was 
covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days and 
required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my search 
to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  
Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our  
time...

FDR

On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No survey 
required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and becasue marinas 
require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of loss.  Each 
year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew.   

 

Chuck S

On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
  wrote: 

 

 

I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year. 

 

I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for 
that--$250/year which I may drop. 

 

Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims 
procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent? 

 

Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to get 
them to pay a claim. 

 

Charlie Nelson 

36 XL/kcb Water Phantom 

Greenville, NC 



-Original Message-
From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List   

To: Stus-List   
Cc: ALAN BERGEN   
Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

They didn't ask me for a survey. 


Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

 

 

 

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting 
department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.  
After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed. 

  

Matt Wolford 

1976 C 42 Custom 

  

From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM 
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Cc: Glenn Henderson mailto:ghe...@gmail.com> > 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance 

  

Did they require a full survey? 

  

Glenn and Lindsey Henderson 

C 41 

WeGo 

  

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my 
insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, I 
asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was 
$487/year. I am now a Progressive customer. 

  

Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

  

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

   Thanks - Stu 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

I’ve had good luck with Gowrie Group for Masquerade. Reasonable price and rock 
solid policy. Tell Annie Fisher I sent you. 
Andy

Andrew Burton
26 Beacon Hill
Newport, RI 
USA 02840

+401 965 5260
https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/



> On Oct 12, 2021, at 13:51, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US.
> 
> Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some 
> delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats 
> (or at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. 
> 
> Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Doug Robinson 
> Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
> 
> OOps,
> Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was 
> covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days and 
> required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my search 
> to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  
> Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our  
> time...
> FDR
> On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No 
> survey required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and becasue 
> marinas require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of 
> loss.  Each year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew.   
> 
> Chuck S
>> On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year.
>> 
>> I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for 
>> that--$250/year which I may drop.
>> 
>> Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims 
>> procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent?
>> 
>> Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to 
>> get them to pay a claim.
>> 
>> Charlie Nelson
>> 36 XL/kcb Water Phantom
>> Greenville, NC 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
>> To: Stus-List 
>> Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
>> Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
>> 
>> They didn't ask me for a survey. 
>> Alan Bergen
>> 35 Mk III Thirsty
>> Rose City YC
>> Portland, OR 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List  
>> wrote: 
>> When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting 
>> department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.  
>> After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed.
>>  
>> Matt Wolford
>> 1976 C 42 Custom
>>  
>> From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List  
>> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM 
>> To: Stus-List  
>> Cc: Glenn Henderson  
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
>>  
>> Did they require a full survey?
>>  
>> Glenn and Lindsey Henderson
>> C 41
>> WeGo
>>  
>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my 
>> insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, 
>> I asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of 
>> insurance was $487/year. I am now a Progressive customer.
>>  
>> Alan Bergen
>> 35 Mk III Thirsty
>> Rose City YC
>> Portland, OR
>>  
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
>>Thanks - Stu
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
> 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers 

Stus-List Re: Used spinnaker

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I bought a used asymmetrical spinnaker from a guy on the C Owners Facebook 
group who was selling his 30 MK I, and got ripped off.  The sail was short on 
the hoist, and he knew it before he sold it to me, but represented it was made 
for a 30 MK I.

Buyer beware.

Randy

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 11:53 AM, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I bought a new 140 foresail from Precision Sails in Canada for my 34 c for 
> $2,600 including shipping.  Delivery in 8 weeks.
> 
> Get Outlook for Android 
> From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:28:47 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: dwight veinot 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Used spinnaker
>  
> Big loss. What were you doing flying that kite in a big wind. Lots of power 
> or what
> 
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:37 PM Fred Hazzard via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
> Yesterday my 3/4 oz. chute exploded in a big wind. 
> Now I am looking for a used replacement. Lead time to get a new one more than 
> 6 months. 
> So,if there are any C 44 listers out there with a chute to sell, I am 
> interested. 
> Fred Hazzard 
> C 44
> S/V Fury 
> Portland Or 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
>   Thanks - Stu
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Used spinnaker

[Korbey Hunt via CnC-List]

I bought a new 140 foresail from Precision Sails in Canada for my 34 c for 
$2,600 including shipping.  Delivery in 8 weeks.

Get Outlook for Android

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:28:47 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Used spinnaker

Big loss. What were you doing flying that kite in a big wind. Lots of power or 
what

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:37 PM Fred Hazzard via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Yesterday my 3/4 oz. chute exploded in a big wind.
Now I am looking for a used replacement. Lead time to get a new one more than 6 
months.
So,if there are any C 44 listers out there with a chute to sell, I am 
interested.
Fred Hazzard
C 44
S/V Fury
Portland Or
Sent from my iPhone
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
  Thanks - Stu
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US.
Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some 
delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats (or 
at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. 
Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!
Charlie Nelson


-Original Message-
From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Doug Robinson 
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

 OOps, Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was 
covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days and 
required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my search 
to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  
Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C Mk1 before wasting our  
time... FDR
  On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
  
 
 I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No survey 
required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and becasue marinas 
require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of loss.  Each 
year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew.   

Chuck S
   
  On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   
   I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year.  
   I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for 
that--$250/year which I may drop.   
   Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims 
procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent?   
   Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to 
get them to pay a claim.   
   Charlie Nelson   36 XL/kcb Water Phantom   Greenville, NC 
 
 
  -Original Message-
 From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
 Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance
 
They didn't ask me for a survey. 
   Alan Bergen   35 Mk III Thirsty   Rose City YC   Portland, OR 
  
 
   
   On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List  
wrote: 
  
When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting 
department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.  
After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed.       
Matt Wolford   1976 C 42 Custom    From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List 
 
 Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM 
 To: Stus-List  
 Cc: Glenn Henderson  
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance Did they require a full survey?   
   Glenn and Lindsey Henderson C 41 WeGo   On Thu, Sep 23, 
2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  wrote:   
I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my 
insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, I 
asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was 
$487/year. I am now a Progressive customer.    Alan Bergen 
35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR  Thanks to 
all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs 
involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send 
contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu  
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
   Thanks - Stu 
   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
 
  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu Thanks 
to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs 
involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send 
contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: leeward layline

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

Thanks, Don, this seems to confirm my findings on our 35-2 - although we
don't race, we often are trying to make some miles on long downwind runs.
While I haven't done too much testing since getting real instruments, it
seems that I can sail deeper downwind as the wind builds and still get a
good VMG. Of course, I am sailing with only a genoa and no pole, so keeping
the sail full is often the limiting factor for downwind angle, but at
20kt + I can often go very deep if the seas are fairly calm. If I expect
20kt+, I will also not bother with the main, as I can get near hull speed
with just the genoa, and we certainly won't be surfing much with a tonne or
two of cruising gear on board...

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:15 AM Don Kern via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Let me assume that your boat is similar in performance to my 35 Mk2 and
> the wind / currents are similar to what we have in New England.  That said
> I hardly ever worry about sailing to the laylines.  First, hardly ever is
> the leeward mark set dead downwind and there should be a preferred side of
> the course to sail which may be modified due to tidal currents.   You
> figure that out before you start and set the pole and guy/sheet
> appropriately.  Then you watch to see what lead class of boats due upon
> rounding windward mark to confirm the downwide course settings, if you are
> not in he fist class to start.  When you round that mark your fist
> imperative is to clear your wind either reaching , bearing off or jibing.
> Next, if you are in the lead, is cover your most threatening competitors,
> if not in the lead keeping your wind clear and if wind is light to moderate
> sail to the favorable current (max or min depending on current direction).
> Because of my boat's older design I sail deeper downwind for max VMG then
> the newer boats which sail closer to a reach (wider down wind angles).
> Strategy and tactics usually will keep me away from the layline which limit
> my options.  If I am the lead boat I try set up so rounding is just get the
> chute down and harden up without sailing into the lee of the competitors.
> Normally because I have sailed deeper and have avoided the laylines, the
> newer competitors are approaching from wider outside angle and my tactic is
> to protect from being overlapped to the inside as I get to the 3 boat
> circle.
>
> From the above you can see I hardly ever sail off into the wild blue
> yonders of the laylines, Strategy and then tactics predominate my down wind
> sailing.
>
> Don Ken
> Fireball, C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
>
>
>
> On 10/12/2021 8:33 AM, Jeff Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I'm really not following your math here.
> Perhaps some clarification:
> TWA = True Wind Angle (I think you refer to that as TWD True Wind
> Direction below) ie 270?
> Course  = 230 deg
> Tacking Angle = 80 deg
> New Course = 310 deg
> Course to Leeward Mark = ?
>
> This statement is confusing to me:
> "So, when the windward mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward
> layline"
> In this example we are going to the Leeward Mark (downwind mark).  I
> believe you are heading to the port layline,
> The windward mark would be the one you previously rounded.
>
> With all of the above...It seems like an aweful lot of math to do in the
> heat of the battle.  Since you likely know the
> course to the mark, and you've already determined your gybing range (80
> deg).  Isn't it easier to add or subtract 80 to
> your course to see if it matches the bearing to the mark?  This  can be
> achieved from your chart plotter BTW (Bearing to
> waypoint) or via handheld compass if you can see the mark.  Maybe that's
> what the math below does, if I plugged in
> the right numbers, but the closest I could get was 180 - course (230) =
> 310 but if I multiply that by 2 I get a course of
> 260 which wouldn't be your layline, as you need a course of 310.  Also, if
> I use any of those course numbers, they will
> remain constant, whereas the bearing to the mark will constantly change as
> you get further from the rhumbline (dead down wind).
>
> Cheers,
>Jeff Nelson
>Muir Caileag
>C - 549
>Armdale Yacht Club
>
> On 2021-10-11 10:07 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
>
> My geometry for calculating leeward layline:
> If my ideal heading for the current conditions is 230* and TWD is 270*,
> that means my stern has to swing 40* to become dead downwind, and another
> 40* to get to the reciprocal course after the jibe.  In a perfect scenario,
> this means an 80* swing.  So, when the windward mark is at a bearing of 80*
> I'm on the leeward layline.  Bearing to the mark can thus be calculated as
> 2 x (180-TWA).
>
> Bob
>
> On 10/08/2021 11:15 AM Bob Mann 
>  wrote:
>
>
> I still need to review the geometry, but I believe that when the bearing
> to the mark is equal to 180-TWA, one has reached the downwind layline.  I
> also found that when the 

Stus-List Re: Windstar

[andrew macLean via CnC-List]

lots of really great information there!

Andrew


> On Oct 11, 2021, at 12:48 pm, Rod Stright via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dave pretty well organized.
>  
> Regards
> Rod 
> 2004 C 99
> Equinox
> Halifax
>  
> From: Dave S mailto:syerd...@gmail.com>> 
> Sent: October-11-21 4:39 PM
> To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Rod Stright mailto:strig...@eastlink.ca>>; andrew 
> macLean mailto:andre...@icloud.com>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re: Windstar
>  
> Thanks - those are my pages.  
> The tool is google’s blogger app.  Pretty easy to use.  I suspect the 
> capability might be there to organize it better than I have.  
>  
> I use it as a scratch pad as well, make a post and mark it ‘under 
> construction’. This way I can record dimensions, or send people there for 
> info (like upholsterers).  
>  
> It has proven to be pretty valuable as I consider selling Windstar’s and 
> moving up - buyers and brokers can see the work done in detail.  One broker 
> may buy her for his own use as a result. 
> 
> I recently started another blog for a dinghy I’m restoring 
>  
> https://cl11ingrid.blogspot.com/?m=1 
>  
> I have also used it to document info when getting quotes for home renovation 
> work.  Send the contractors there for details, pics.
>  
> Dave 
> Windstar 33-2 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 1:02 PM, andrew macLean via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Right here: 
>>  
>> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/search/label/Solar%20and%20Batteries 
>> 
>>  
>> Lots of good ideas there. I bookmarked it. 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Rod Stright via CnC-List 
>>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Just wondering if anyone has the link to I believe it was Windstar (C 33 
>>> ?)  who had all his projects organized in albums.  Want to try and develop 
>>> something similar.
>>>  
>>> Thanks
>>> Rod Stright
>>> Halifax
>>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>>  Thanks - Stu
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>   Thanks - Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>   Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: leeward layline

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

Don,
   I think you meant this for Bob, who is trying to find a clever way 
of determining the layline bearing.


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C 30 - 549
   Armdale Yacht Club

On 2021-10-12 12:11 p.m., Don Kern via CnC-List wrote:

Jeff,

Let me assume that your boat is similar in performance to my 35 Mk2 
and the wind / currents are similar to what we have in New England.  
That said I hardly ever worry about sailing to the laylines.  First, 
hardly ever is the leeward mark set dead downwind and there should be 
a preferred side of the course to sail which may be modified due to 
tidal currents.   You figure that out before you start and set the 
pole and guy/sheet appropriately.  Then you watch to see what lead 
class of boats due upon rounding windward mark to confirm the downwide 
course settings, if you are not in he fist class to start.  When you 
round that mark your fist imperative is to clear your wind either 
reaching , bearing off or jibing. Next, if you are in the lead, is 
cover your most threatening competitors, if not in the lead keeping 
your wind clear and if wind is light to moderate sail to the favorable 
current (max or min depending on current direction).  Because of my 
boat's older design I sail deeper downwind for max VMG then the newer 
boats which sail closer to a reach (wider down wind angles).  Strategy 
and tactics usually will keep me away from the layline which limit my 
options.  If I am the lead boat I try set up so rounding is just get 
the chute down and harden up without sailing into the lee of the 
competitors. Normally because I have sailed deeper and have avoided 
the laylines, the newer competitors are approaching from wider outside 
angle and my tactic is to protect from being overlapped to the inside 
as I get to the 3 boat circle.


From the above you can see I hardly ever sail off into the wild blue 
yonders of the laylines, Strategy and then tactics predominate my down 
wind sailing.


Don Ken
Fireball, C Mk2
Bristol, RI



On 10/12/2021 8:33 AM, Jeff Nelson via CnC-List wrote:

I'm really not following your math here.
Perhaps some clarification:
TWA = True Wind Angle (I think you refer to that as TWD True Wind 
Direction below) ie 270?

Course  = 230 deg
Tacking Angle = 80 deg
New Course = 310 deg
Course to Leeward Mark = ?

This statement is confusing to me:
"So, when the windward mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward 
layline"
In this example we are going to the Leeward Mark (downwind mark).  I 
believe you are heading to the port layline,

The windward mark would be the one you previously rounded.

With all of the above...It seems like an aweful lot of math to do in 
the heat of the battle.  Since you likely know the
course to the mark, and you've already determined your gybing range 
(80 deg).  Isn't it easier to add or subtract 80 to
your course to see if it matches the bearing to the mark?  This can 
be achieved from your chart plotter BTW (Bearing to
waypoint) or via handheld compass if you can see the mark. Maybe 
that's what the math below does, if I plugged in
the right numbers, but the closest I could get was 180 - course (230) 
= 310 but if I multiply that by 2 I get a course of
260 which wouldn't be your layline, as you need a course of 310.  
Also, if I use any of those course numbers, they will
remain constant, whereas the bearing to the mark will constantly 
change as you get further from the rhumbline (dead down wind).


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C - 549
   Armdale Yacht Club

On 2021-10-11 10:07 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:

My geometry for calculating leeward layline:
If my ideal heading for the current conditions is 230* and TWD is 
270*, that means my stern has to swing 40* to become dead downwind, 
and another 40* to get to the reciprocal course after the jibe.  In 
a perfect scenario, this means an 80* swing.  So, when the windward 
mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward layline.  Bearing to 
the mark can thus be calculated as 2 x (180-TWA).

Bob

On 10/08/2021 11:15 AM Bob Mann  wrote:
I still need to review the geometry, but I believe that when the 
bearing to the mark is equal to 180-TWA, one has reached the 
downwind layline.  I also found that when the masthead is pointing 
at the mark, that also indicates the layline has been reached.

Bob
On 10/06/2021 11:17 AM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hmmm...Interesting question.

So, Ed's answer was pretty good, I'll add a few thoughts here:

AW isn't an ideal guide, True wind is what is needed so that you 
can keep the angle to true wind to be constant on

either Gybe, assuming you know what the best angle is.
If you can find polar's for your boat, they will give you an idea 
of ideal.
As Ed mentioned, VMG is your friend in determining what the best 
angle is (especially if no polars are available).
You can experiment in different wind speeds to find a reasonably 
good angle for windspeed and VMG.


Here's a good article to get you 

Stus-List Re: leeward layline

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Jeff,

Let me assume that your boat is similar in performance to my 35 Mk2 and 
the wind / currents are similar to what we have in New England. That 
said I hardly ever worry about sailing to the laylines.  First, hardly 
ever is the leeward mark set dead downwind and there should be a 
preferred side of the course to sail which may be modified due to tidal 
currents.   You figure that out before you start and set the pole and 
guy/sheet appropriately.  Then you watch to see what lead class of boats 
due upon rounding windward mark to confirm the downwide course settings, 
if you are not in he fist class to start. When you round that mark your 
fist imperative is to clear your wind either reaching , bearing off or 
jibing. Next, if you are in the lead, is cover your most threatening 
competitors, if not in the lead keeping your wind clear and if wind is 
light to moderate sail to the favorable current (max or min depending on 
current direction). Because of my boat's older design I sail deeper 
downwind for max VMG then the newer boats which sail closer to a reach 
(wider down wind angles).  Strategy and tactics usually will keep me 
away from the layline which limit my options.  If I am the lead boat I 
try set up so rounding is just get the chute down and harden up without 
sailing into the lee of the competitors.  Normally because I have sailed 
deeper and have avoided the laylines, the newer competitors are 
approaching from wider outside angle and my tactic is to protect from 
being overlapped to the inside as I get to the 3 boat circle.


From the above you can see I hardly ever sail off into the wild blue 
yonders of the laylines, Strategy and then tactics predominate my down 
wind sailing.


Don Ken
Fireball, C Mk2
Bristol, RI



On 10/12/2021 8:33 AM, Jeff Nelson via CnC-List wrote:

I'm really not following your math here.
Perhaps some clarification:
TWA = True Wind Angle (I think you refer to that as TWD True Wind 
Direction below) ie 270?

Course  = 230 deg
Tacking Angle = 80 deg
New Course = 310 deg
Course to Leeward Mark = ?

This statement is confusing to me:
"So, when the windward mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward 
layline"
In this example we are going to the Leeward Mark (downwind mark).  I 
believe you are heading to the port layline,

The windward mark would be the one you previously rounded.

With all of the above...It seems like an aweful lot of math to do in 
the heat of the battle.  Since you likely know the
course to the mark, and you've already determined your gybing range 
(80 deg).  Isn't it easier to add or subtract 80 to
your course to see if it matches the bearing to the mark?  This can be 
achieved from your chart plotter BTW (Bearing to
waypoint) or via handheld compass if you can see the mark.  Maybe 
that's what the math below does, if I plugged in
the right numbers, but the closest I could get was 180 - course (230) 
= 310 but if I multiply that by 2 I get a course of
260 which wouldn't be your layline, as you need a course of 310. Also, 
if I use any of those course numbers, they will
remain constant, whereas the bearing to the mark will constantly 
change as you get further from the rhumbline (dead down wind).


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C - 549
   Armdale Yacht Club

On 2021-10-11 10:07 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:

My geometry for calculating leeward layline:
If my ideal heading for the current conditions is 230* and TWD is 
270*, that means my stern has to swing 40* to become dead downwind, 
and another 40* to get to the reciprocal course after the jibe.  In a 
perfect scenario, this means an 80* swing.  So, when the windward 
mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward layline.  Bearing to 
the mark can thus be calculated as 2 x (180-TWA).

Bob

On 10/08/2021 11:15 AM Bob Mann  wrote:
I still need to review the geometry, but I believe that when the 
bearing to the mark is equal to 180-TWA, one has reached the 
downwind layline.  I also found that when the masthead is pointing 
at the mark, that also indicates the layline has been reached.

Bob
On 10/06/2021 11:17 AM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hmmm...Interesting question.

So, Ed's answer was pretty good, I'll add a few thoughts here:

AW isn't an ideal guide, True wind is what is needed so that you 
can keep the angle to true wind to be constant on

either Gybe, assuming you know what the best angle is.
If you can find polar's for your boat, they will give you an idea 
of ideal.
As Ed mentioned, VMG is your friend in determining what the best 
angle is (especially if no polars are available).
You can experiment in different wind speeds to find a reasonably 
good angle for windspeed and VMG.


Here's a good article to get you thinking:
http://www.oceansail.co.uk/Articles/VMGArticle.php

Hope this helps.
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C 30 549
Armdale Yacht Club

On 2021-10-06 12:02 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
I'm fairly new to flying a spinnaker.  I did it last weekend 

Stus-List Re: leeward layline

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

I'm really not following your math here.
Perhaps some clarification:
TWA = True Wind Angle (I think you refer to that as TWD True Wind 
Direction below) ie 270?

Course  = 230 deg
Tacking Angle = 80 deg
New Course = 310 deg
Course to Leeward Mark = ?

This statement is confusing to me:
"So, when the windward mark is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward 
layline"
In this example we are going to the Leeward Mark (downwind mark). I 
believe you are heading to the port layline,

The windward mark would be the one you previously rounded.

With all of the above...It seems like an aweful lot of math to do in the 
heat of the battle.  Since you likely know the
course to the mark, and you've already determined your gybing range (80 
deg).  Isn't it easier to add or subtract 80 to
your course to see if it matches the bearing to the mark?  This  can be 
achieved from your chart plotter BTW (Bearing to
waypoint) or via handheld compass if you can see the mark.  Maybe that's 
what the math below does, if I plugged in
the right numbers, but the closest I could get was 180 - course (230) = 
310 but if I multiply that by 2 I get a course of
260 which wouldn't be your layline, as you need a course of 310. Also, 
if I use any of those course numbers, they will
remain constant, whereas the bearing to the mark will constantly change 
as you get further from the rhumbline (dead down wind).


Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C - 549
   Armdale Yacht Club

On 2021-10-11 10:07 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:

My geometry for calculating leeward layline:
If my ideal heading for the current conditions is 230* and TWD is 
270*, that means my stern has to swing 40* to become dead downwind, 
and another 40* to get to the reciprocal course after the jibe.  In a 
perfect scenario, this means an 80* swing.  So, when the windward mark 
is at a bearing of 80* I'm on the leeward layline.  Bearing to the 
mark can thus be calculated as 2 x (180-TWA).

Bob

On 10/08/2021 11:15 AM Bob Mann  wrote:
I still need to review the geometry, but I believe that when the 
bearing to the mark is equal to 180-TWA, one has reached the downwind 
layline.  I also found that when the masthead is pointing at the 
mark, that also indicates the layline has been reached.

Bob
On 10/06/2021 11:17 AM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hmmm...Interesting question.

So, Ed's answer was pretty good, I'll add a few thoughts here:

AW isn't an ideal guide, True wind is what is needed so that you can 
keep the angle to true wind to be constant on

either Gybe, assuming you know what the best angle is.
If you can find polar's for your boat, they will give you an idea of 
ideal.
As Ed mentioned, VMG is your friend in determining what the best 
angle is (especially if no polars are available).
You can experiment in different wind speeds to find a reasonably 
good angle for windspeed and VMG.


Here's a good article to get you thinking:
http://www.oceansail.co.uk/Articles/VMGArticle.php

Hope this helps.
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C 30 549
Armdale Yacht Club

On 2021-10-06 12:02 p.m., Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
I'm fairly new to flying a spinnaker.  I did it last weekend in a 
race and I believe I overstood the mark as we were sailing 110 AW 
before the gybe and 85 AW heading directly to the mark.

How does one determine when to gybe?
Bob

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray   Thanks - Stu



 
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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to 
the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray   Thanks - Stu



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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu