Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Doug via CnC-List]

"I pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod 
on starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
missing." I had rods from from the chain plates down to frame work in the hull. 
This was on my LF38. The standing rigging went to u-bolts on the deck, these 
were secured to aluminium blocks which rods were attached. I never looked, or 
don't remember, at how the rods were attached to the hull. Doug Mountjoy sv 
Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39Port Orchard Yacht Club Port Orchard, WA
 Original message From: John Read via CnC-List 
 Date: 3/21/22  18:09  (GMT-06:00) To: Stus-List 
 Cc: John Read  Subject: 
Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing. Hi John  Had similar issues on my 34.  
Silicone, 4200 and similar all failed as did not adhere well to the stainless 
chain plates as they move a lot as rig tensions. Only thing that has worked is 
butyl.  Going on 10 years and no leaks. Not sure what benefits the stainless 
pin provides as is not well secured. Glad to chat anytime.  John Read On Mon, 
Mar 21, 2022, 4:27 PM John McCrea via CnC-List  
wrote:Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I 
pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod on 
starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The 
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to 1/8 
stainless.  Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that 
will all be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the 
chainplates etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best 
sealant to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks! Regards, John 
McCreaTalisman1979 36-1Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[John Read via CnC-List]

Hi John  Had similar issues on my 34.  Silicone, 4200 and similar all
failed as did not adhere well to the stainless chain plates as they move a
lot as rig tensions. Only thing that has worked is butyl.  Going on 10
years and no leaks. Not sure what benefits the stainless pin provides as is
not well secured. Glad to chat anytime.  John Read

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 4:27 PM John McCrea via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I
> pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod
> on starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is
> missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The
> covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to
> 1/8 stainless.
>
>
>
> Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will
> all be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the
> chainplates etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the
> best sealant to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> John McCrea
>
> Talisman
>
> 1979 36-1
>
> Mystic, CT
>

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Jeff,

Regarding epoxy, I can still get my chainplates out.  That’s why I put a 
releasing agent on them.  Once the epoxy hardened, I took them back out, and 
now the cutouts are a better fit around the chainplates.  But you have a point 
about movement.  Next time I get in there, I’ll have to inspect for effects of 
that.

Regarding knees, I remember a story on this list I think, within the last few 
years, about a Redwing that had to be totaled due to complete destruction of 
one of its knees.  When I did my resealing job and unbolted the chainplates 
from the knees, I’m pretty sure I concluded the knees on my boat are solid 
fiberglass.  I didn’t see any wood core in the bolt holes, and there’s pretty 
heavy matting/roving visible on the surface of the knees.  That would be in 
keeping with the rest of the hull construction on the early 30 MK I boats - 
solid glass hull, built like tanks.  I also inspected the metal chainplates as 
best I could with a strong magnifying glass, and didn’t see any signs of 
hairline cracking etc.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I second the sealing with butyl. Do NOT use silicone or 4200. The epoxy idea 
> may be ok, but messy and no going back. "Beefing up" the plates wont do any 
> harm but isn't necessary. These plates effectively protect the sealant. 
> That's it. Check the balsa core around the penetration. Depending on extent 
> of decay, determine how this will be remedied -- from digging out a small 
> amount balsa and fill with butyl to cutting out glass from above or below to 
> repair and anything in between. Overfill with butyl fron above and below, 
> then gradually tighten the cover plates to compress butyl and force it into 
> all voids. Carefully trim all excess butyl that oozes out from under the 
> plates and remove. Check frequently for leaks and gradual oozing of butyl.
> 
> The chain plates move in and out, perpendicular to the deck under load, 
> unload. The sealing material must be able to move also. Epoxy will not move. 
> Silicone will for a while, but it's difficult stuff to remove later if it 
> fails. Same with 4200 but even worse.  Butyl is the solution.
> 
> Also, I encourage you to carefully inspect the knee connection where chain 
> plate bolts to hull. Remove bolts and poke around with dental tools. Make 
> sure plywood is intact and not rotting. Inspect in the bottom of the space 
> below knee, poking and tapping everything, checking for hollow sounds and 
> decay. If there have been leaks at the deck, water runs down chain plate and 
> into all the plywood knee structure and can damage it. So, there is more to 
> preventing water at the deck core. Much more.
> 
> I am sure others on the list have stories to tell. A lister has an 81 C 
> that is in for a major major repair (thousands $$) of the knees due to a 
> leak. The rig nearly came down while racing. I was crew. Scary.  So I 
> immediately checked my C Leaking but very little decay. Dry as bone 
> after butyl and 4 months -- haven't been to boat since about November, but 
> under winter cover.
> 
> Jeff Laman
> 81 C
> Harmony
> Ludington Mich
> 
> Get Outlook for Android 
> From: MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List 
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 5:38:59 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: MICHAEL BRANNON 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.
>  
> John,  I’ve owned my 36-1 since 1997.   I’ve yet to make the chainplates quit 
> leaking but I’ve certainly reduced the amount.   First,  I doubt that the 
> balsa around your chainplates is sealed.  Mine wasn’t.  I had to replace core 
> material on the starboard side.   Second.  Those aluminum trim pieces are 
> flush to the deck.  I raised mine about 3?16” and that is what made the 
> difference.   Lastly,   Like everything else above the waterline I used butyl 
> as the sealant.   It remains flexible and easy to remove.   My advise is to 
> ask the butyl from both sides of the deck.  Install the trim plates and see 
> if it is sealed?   
> 
> Cheer, and best of luck.  
> 
> Mike
> 
> Mike Brannon
> Virginia Lee 93295
> 1978 C 36 CB
> Virginia Beach, VA
> 
> PS,  mine need to be done again this year.   
> 
> 
>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> John,
>>  
>> Many would suggest 3M 4200, but silicone has issues. I swear by butyl tape 
>> (it never hardens out completely and it is very flexible). The best source 
>> is Maine Sail (Compass Marine https://marinehowto.com/ 
>> ),
>>  though, I am not sure if he still sells this stuff (he had a bad hard 

Stus-List list removal?

[Richard Walter via CnC-List]

Greetings,
Can I please have my email address removed from the CnC-list? 
Thank you, Richard J. Walter 

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

Thanks. Will dissemble the bolts etc and check them out.

 

From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 6:12 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

 

I second the sealing with butyl. Do NOT use silicone or 4200. The epoxy idea
may be ok, but messy and no going back. "Beefing up" the plates wont do any
harm but isn't necessary. These plates effectively protect the sealant.
That's it. Check the balsa core around the penetration. Depending on extent
of decay, determine how this will be remedied -- from digging out a small
amount balsa and fill with butyl to cutting out glass from above or below to
repair and anything in between. Overfill with butyl fron above and below,
then gradually tighten the cover plates to compress butyl and force it into
all voids. Carefully trim all excess butyl that oozes out from under the
plates and remove. Check frequently for leaks and gradual oozing of butyl.

 

The chain plates move in and out, perpendicular to the deck under load,
unload. The sealing material must be able to move also. Epoxy will not move.
Silicone will for a while, but it's difficult stuff to remove later if it
fails. Same with 4200 but even worse.  Butyl is the solution.

 

Also, I encourage you to carefully inspect the knee connection where chain
plate bolts to hull. Remove bolts and poke around with dental tools. Make
sure plywood is intact and not rotting. Inspect in the bottom of the space
below knee, poking and tapping everything, checking for hollow sounds and
decay. If there have been leaks at the deck, water runs down chain plate and
into all the plywood knee structure and can damage it. So, there is more to
preventing water at the deck core. Much more.

 

I am sure others on the list have stories to tell. A lister has an 81 C
that is in for a major major repair (thousands $$) of the knees due to a
leak. The rig nearly came down while racing. I was crew. Scary.  So I
immediately checked my C Leaking but very little decay. Dry as bone
after butyl and 4 months -- haven't been to boat since about November, but
under winter cover.

 

Jeff Laman

81 C

Harmony

Ludington Mich

 

Get Outlook for Android  

  _  

From: MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 5:38:59 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: MICHAEL BRANNON mailto:ff1...@aol.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing. 

 

John,  I've owned my 36-1 since 1997.   I've yet to make the chainplates
quit leaking but I've certainly reduced the amount.   First,  I doubt that
the balsa around your chainplates is sealed.  Mine wasn't.  I had to replace
core material on the starboard side.   Second.  Those aluminum trim pieces
are flush to the deck.  I raised mine about 3?16" and that is what made the
difference.   Lastly,   Like everything else above the waterline I used
butyl as the sealant.   It remains flexible and easy to remove.   My advise
is to ask the butyl from both sides of the deck.  Install the trim plates
and see if it is sealed?

 

Cheer, and best of luck.  

 

Mike

 

Mike Brannon

Virginia Lee 93295

1978 C 36 CB

Virginia Beach, VA

 

PS,  mine need to be done again this year.   

 

 

On Mar 21, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

John,

 

Many would suggest 3M 4200, but silicone has issues. I swear by butyl tape
(it never hardens out completely and it is very flexible). The best source
is Maine Sail (Compass Marine

https://marinehowto.com/), though, I am not sure if he still sells this
stuff (he had a bad hard attack last year).

 

Marek

Ottawa, ON

 

From: John McCrea via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:28 PM
To: 'Stus-List' <  cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc:   johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

 

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I
pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod
on starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to
1/8 stainless.

 

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all
be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates
etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best 

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

Thanks Mike!

 

From: MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 5:39 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: MICHAEL BRANNON 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

 

John,  I’ve owned my 36-1 since 1997.   I’ve yet to make the chainplates quit 
leaking but I’ve certainly reduced the amount.   First,  I doubt that the balsa 
around your chainplates is sealed.  Mine wasn’t.  I had to replace core 
material on the starboard side.   Second.  Those aluminum trim pieces are flush 
to the deck.  I raised mine about 3?16” and that is what made the difference.   
Lastly,   Like everything else above the waterline I used butyl as the sealant. 
  It remains flexible and easy to remove.   My advise is to ask the butyl from 
both sides of the deck.  Install the trim plates and see if it is sealed?   

 

Cheer, and best of luck.  

 

Mike

 

Mike Brannon

Virginia Lee 93295

1978 C 36 CB

Virginia Beach, VA

 

PS,  mine need to be done again this year.   

 

 

On Mar 21, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

John,

 

Many would suggest 3M 4200, but silicone has issues. I swear by butyl tape (it 
never hardens out completely and it is very flexible). The best source is Maine 
Sail (Compass Marine   https://marinehowto.com/), 
though, I am not sure if he still sells this stuff (he had a bad hard attack 
last year).

 

Marek

Ottawa, ON

 

From: John McCrea via CnC-List <  
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:28 PM
To: 'Stus-List' <  cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc:   johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

 

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I pulled 
both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod on 
starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The 
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to 1/8 
stainless.

 

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all be 
dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates etc 
to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant to use 
when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

 

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Mike Rose via CnC-List]

Well…

I’ll add my experience. First, I do use butyl as much as possible, but found 
chainplates a difficult application. The main problem we’re the cover plates 
are welded to the chainplate. This makes it difficult to get a significant 
amount of butyl in place still allowing the mounting bolts to pass through the 
bulkheads. I ended up using Sikaflex 291. Second, check your deck core. If 
you’ve had a drip, your core is wet. Replace and protect. Last, inspect the 
chainplate! I am not an expert, but would love to hear from one. I had one 
chainplate with substantial crevice corrosion. I understand it is related to 
moisture getting trapped without enough airflow to dry it out. If you’ve had a 
drip, I suspect the moisture has spent some time seeping through the failed 
sealant. I have not dye tested the old chainplate, but would like to. The 
exterior visual was enough for me to have a new one fabricated.

Just my experience…

Mike Rose
s/v Shannon Rose
C 39, hull #23

Sent from my iPhone

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

I second the sealing with butyl. Do NOT use silicone or 4200. The epoxy idea 
may be ok, but messy and no going back. "Beefing up" the plates wont do any 
harm but isn't necessary. These plates effectively protect the sealant. That's 
it. Check the balsa core around the penetration. Depending on extent of decay, 
determine how this will be remedied -- from digging out a small amount balsa 
and fill with butyl to cutting out glass from above or below to repair and 
anything in between. Overfill with butyl fron above and below, then gradually 
tighten the cover plates to compress butyl and force it into all voids. 
Carefully trim all excess butyl that oozes out from under the plates and 
remove. Check frequently for leaks and gradual oozing of butyl.

The chain plates move in and out, perpendicular to the deck under load, unload. 
The sealing material must be able to move also. Epoxy will not move. Silicone 
will for a while, but it's difficult stuff to remove later if it fails. Same 
with 4200 but even worse.  Butyl is the solution.

Also, I encourage you to carefully inspect the knee connection where chain 
plate bolts to hull. Remove bolts and poke around with dental tools. Make sure 
plywood is intact and not rotting. Inspect in the bottom of the space below 
knee, poking and tapping everything, checking for hollow sounds and decay. If 
there have been leaks at the deck, water runs down chain plate and into all the 
plywood knee structure and can damage it. So, there is more to preventing water 
at the deck core. Much more.

I am sure others on the list have stories to tell. A lister has an 81 C 
that is in for a major major repair (thousands $$) of the knees due to a leak. 
The rig nearly came down while racing. I was crew. Scary.  So I immediately 
checked my C Leaking but very little decay. Dry as bone after butyl and 4 
months -- haven't been to boat since about November, but under winter cover.

Jeff Laman
81 C
Harmony
Ludington Mich

Get Outlook for Android

From: MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 5:38:59 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: MICHAEL BRANNON 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

John,  I’ve owned my 36-1 since 1997.   I’ve yet to make the chainplates quit 
leaking but I’ve certainly reduced the amount.   First,  I doubt that the balsa 
around your chainplates is sealed.  Mine wasn’t.  I had to replace core 
material on the starboard side.   Second.  Those aluminum trim pieces are flush 
to the deck.  I raised mine about 3?16” and that is what made the difference.   
Lastly,   Like everything else above the waterline I used butyl as the sealant. 
  It remains flexible and easy to remove.   My advise is to ask the butyl from 
both sides of the deck.  Install the trim plates and see if it is sealed?

Cheer, and best of luck.

Mike

Mike Brannon
Virginia Lee 93295
1978 C 36 CB
Virginia Beach, VA

PS,  mine need to be done again this year.


On Mar 21, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

John,

Many would suggest 3M 4200, but silicone has issues. I swear by butyl tape (it 
never hardens out completely and it is very flexible). The best source is Maine 
Sail (Compass Marine 
https://marinehowto.com/),
 though, I am not sure if he still sells this stuff (he had a bad hard attack 
last year).

Marek
Ottawa, ON

From: John McCrea via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:28 PM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I pulled 
both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod on 
starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The 
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to 1/8 
stainless.

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all be 
dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates etc 
to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant to use 
when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!

Regards,

John McCrea
Talisman
1979 36-1
Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Not so fast.  I'm a fan of 3M, and used to be a fan of 4200.  However, in
December 2021 Practical Sailor reported that after several years, firmed up
4200 reverted back to goop.  Practical Sailor asked 3M about this, but as of
the April 2022 "3M has offered no comment on the cause or global impact of
the product failure."  3M 4000 UV may have the same problem, although
Practical Sailor reported that 3M claims a reformulated product solved it
(at least for 4000 UV).  The recent update in the April 2022 issue is on p.
6 under "Gear Graveyard."

 

Matt Wolford

C 42 Custom 

 

From: Rod Stright via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:40 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Rod Stright 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

 

3M 4200

 

From: John McCrea via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: March-21-22 5:28 PM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net  
Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

 

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I
pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod
on starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to
1/8 stainless. 

 

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all
be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates
etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant
to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List]

John,  I’ve owned my 36-1 since 1997.   I’ve yet to make the chainplates quit 
leaking but I’ve certainly reduced the amount.   First,  I doubt that the balsa 
around your chainplates is sealed.  Mine wasn’t.  I had to replace core 
material on the starboard side.   Second.  Those aluminum trim pieces are flush 
to the deck.  I raised mine about 3?16” and that is what made the difference.   
Lastly,   Like everything else above the waterline I used butyl as the sealant. 
  It remains flexible and easy to remove.   My advise is to ask the butyl from 
both sides of the deck.  Install the trim plates and see if it is sealed?   

Cheer, and best of luck.  

Mike

Mike Brannon
Virginia Lee 93295
1978 C 36 CB
Virginia Beach, VA

PS,  mine need to be done again this year.   


> On Mar 21, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> John,
>  
> Many would suggest 3M 4200, but silicone has issues. I swear by butyl tape 
> (it never hardens out completely and it is very flexible). The best source is 
> Maine Sail (Compass Marine https://marinehowto.com/ 
> ), though, I am not sure if he still sells this 
> stuff (he had a bad hard attack last year).
>  
> Marek
> Ottawa, ON
>  
> From: John McCrea via CnC-List  > 
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:28 PM
> To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net 
> Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.
>  
> Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I 
> pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod on 
> starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
> missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The 
> covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to 
> 1/8 stainless.
>  
> Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all 
> be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates 
> etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant 
> to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!
>  
> Regards,
>  
> John McCrea
> Talisman
> 1979 36-1
> Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi John,

I resealed the chainplates on my 30 MK I about five years ago with advice from 
Dennis Cheuvront here on the list.  I removed the chainplates (there’s only one 
per side on a 30 MK I) and dug out maybe a half-inch of wet / rotted balsa core 
around the cutouts between the fiberglass layers.  Then I put the plates back 
in with a releasing agent on them (Carmex, it turned out), and filled all gaps 
with thickened epoxy, injecting it through the cover screw holes etc.  First 
I'd packed Play-Doh between the inner fiberglass layer and cabin ceiling liner 
to prevent epoxy from dripping and oozing.  Finally I put the covers back on 
sealed with LifeSeal.  Some pictures of the project at 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk?resourcekey=0-17H-NdO9zgBNAfBVLXuK2A=sharing
 
.
  Overall I think it was an improvement, a necessary catch-up on some deferred 
maintenance, but unfortunately I think I still get a bit of leakage down the 
chainplates.  At least now I hope it’s not wetting the balsa core. 

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Mar 21, 2022, at 2:40 PM, Rod Stright via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 3M 4200
>  
> From: John McCrea via CnC-List  
> Sent: March-21-22 5:28 PM
> To: 'Stus-List' 
> Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net
> Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.
>  
> Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I 
> pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod on 
> starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
> missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The 
> covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to 
> 1/8 stainless.
>  
> Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all 
> be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates 
> etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant 
> to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!
>  
> Regards,
>  
> John McCrea
> Talisman
> 1979 36-1
> Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

John,

Many would suggest 3M 4200, but silicone has issues. I swear by butyl tape (it 
never hardens out completely and it is very flexible). The best source is Maine 
Sail (Compass Marine https://marinehowto.com/), though, I am not sure if he 
still sells this stuff (he had a bad hard attack last year).

Marek
Ottawa, ON

From: John McCrea via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:28 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I pulled 
both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod on 
starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is 
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The 
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to 1/8 
stainless.

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all be 
dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates etc 
to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant to use 
when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!

Regards,

John McCrea
Talisman
1979 36-1
Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Chainplate Sealing.

[Rod Stright via CnC-List]

3M 4200

 

From: John McCrea via CnC-List  
Sent: March-21-22 5:28 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

 

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I
pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod
on starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to
1/8 stainless. 

 

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all
be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates
etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant
to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

Stus-List Chainplate Sealing.

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

Hello. I have a leak on my port side chainplate that needs addressing. I
pulled both chainplate cover plates and noticed that I had a stainless rod
on starboard that holds the two chainplates pieces together. One on port is
missing. Maybe that is causing excess movement and more adapt to leak? The
covers are original and thin 1/16 aluminum. I am getting them beefed up to
1/8 stainless. 

 

Looks like the PO had only sealed them with clear silicone. So that will all
be dug out. I am also inspecting the hull tabbing below with the chainplates
etc to ensure that I do not have any issues there. What is the best sealant
to use when installing the new cover plates? Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Teak Handrail install

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

The Brass are a little fatter, but you don’t have to worry about SS on SS 
Galling.

https://www.rockler.com/e-z-knife-threaded-insert-for-hard-wood-brass-pack-of-25

 

 

The SS ones allow for a smaller hole. Similar in price. I put a thin coating of 
tefgel on a screw, put it in the helicoil, and pushed that into the hole filled 
with thickened epoxy. I guess I liked the SS Helicoil better. Just a personal 
preference. 

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/helicoils/stainless-steel-helical-inserts-9/

 

I put them on the deck with 5200 (Don’t say it!) because  these hand rails 
inevitably are stepped on sideways when the boat is heeling, and a 10-24 
machine screw can’t handle that too well. But the allure of having an O-ring 
seal for the ease of removing in the fall for varnishing is pretty hard to 
ignore.

 

I sent you a picture of the install off list.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER [mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2022 8:35 AM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Bill Coleman
Subject: Re: Stus-List Re: Teak Handrail install

 

Hey Bill, 

I am just learning about these threaded inserts and heli-coils.  Can you share 
what you learned from using both? 

 

Chuck S

 

 

On 03/19/2022 11:16 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List  wrote: 

 

 

Yes, I did that about 15 years ago, I used brass inserts epoxied into the 
outside rails.

Then later I did the sliding hatch cover by epoxying  SS Helicoils into the 
teak.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 9:37 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER
Subject: Stus-List Teak Handrail install

 

Curious if anyone else tried this? 

 

My cabin top handrails are bolted to a matching set in the cabin ceiling.  They 
were throughbolted to each other using long bolts and nuts and the holes 
bunged.  I removed them to fix leaks many years ago and want to install them 
now so I can simply remove the screws from inside and remove both for a winter 
retouch.

 

They were originally through bolted together, the outside cabintop handrails 
had 3 1/2" long 10-24 screws and the cabin ceiling handrails had nuts holding 
it all together, both fasteners had teak bungs over the fasteners. 

 

My plan is to install threaded inserts into the outside handrails and use 
stainless 10-24 screws from the inside ones to hold them together.  My plan is 
to bung the outer handrails and leave out bungs on the inner set, so I can 
remove the the screws from inside, each winter.  I've already overbored and 
redrilled and countersunk the deck holes, and will use butyl tape for bedding.  
This should provide a way to remove the long screws from inside without 
removing the bungs on the outside handrails. 

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/90016A011/ 

 

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Annapolis

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stus-List Re: Teak Handrail install

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Chuck that sounds like a good plan.  I replaced my exterior teak handrails five 
years ago (1972 30 MK I hull #79) and they were fastened almost the same way - 
with long wood screws through the interior handrails and cabintop (no nuts 
involved).  When I reassembled I fastened them the same way (with new SS wood 
screws) and left the interior bungs out.  The threaded insert and machine screw 
from inside approach sounds pretty slick. 

Cheers,
Randy 

> On Mar 19, 2022, at 7:37 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Curious if anyone else tried this?
> 
> My cabin top handrails are bolted to a matching set in the cabin ceiling.  
> They were throughbolted to each other using long bolts and nuts and the holes 
> bunged.  I removed them to fix leaks many years ago and want to install them 
> now so I can simply remove the screws from inside and remove both for a 
> winter retouch.
> 
> They were originally through bolted together, the outside cabintop handrails 
> had 3 1/2" long 10-24 screws and the cabin ceiling handrails had nuts holding 
> it all together, both fasteners had teak bungs over the fasteners.
> 
> My plan is to install threaded inserts into the outside handrails and use 
> stainless 10-24 screws from the inside ones to hold them together.  My plan 
> is to bung the outer handrails and leave out bungs on the inner set, so I can 
> remove the the screws from inside, each winter.  I've already overbored and 
> redrilled and countersunk the deck holes, and will use butyl tape for 
> bedding.  This should provide a way to remove the long screws from inside 
> without removing the bungs on the outside handrails. 
> 
> https://www.mcmaster.com/90016A011/ 
> 
> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Annapolis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>