Stus-List Re: Batteries again

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Quick battery facts:

 

An ideal battery is like a water tank. It holds X amount, can be filled as fast 
as you want or as slow as you want, and likewise for emptying the water. No 
matter what, you get 10 gallons out of a 10 gallon tank.

How all types of lead-acid batteries fail in being perfect:

1.  Peukert Effect – A 200 amp hour battery might last 250 hours if only 
drawing one amp and maybe one hour at 100 amps.
2.  Charge efficiency – Not all the electricity that goes in gets stored, 
some amount is converted to heat, off gassing, etc.
3.  Cycle life – A 200 amp hour battery eventually declines to a lot less 
than 200 and then is dead. Battery manufacturers supply graphs of 
depth-of-discharge vs. lifespan of the battery. A battery discharged to 80% and 
recharged carefully to 100% might last well over a thousand cycles. One 
discharged to 0% and recharged might last 10 or 20 cycles or maybe 1 cycle if 
it was a starting battery. Most cruisers figure on 50% depth-of-discharge as 
the limit for a good lifespan.

 

What this means is a 200ah lead battery is good for 100ah if you want it to 
last AND have a way to get it all the way back to 100% easily. Many people 
figure on cycling between 50% and 90% or so. The fuller a lead battery gets, 
the slower it charges.

 

In contrast, a lithium battery is a lot closer to the ideal. The charge 
efficiency is high, the Peukert Effect doesn’t really exist for them, you can 
charge them fast if needed, and their lifespan is good to 80% discharge. A 
200ah lithium battery is good for 160ah useable capacity, not the less than 100 
that is the practical useable capacity of lead battery of the same nominal 
rating.

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

 

 

 

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 4:27 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again

 

So Dave, would the SOK Battery 206Ah 12v LiFePO4 Battery Solar Battery be an 
equivalent swap-out for a Lifeline GPL-8DA 12 V 255 AH Battery?

This is a little confusing  (and intimidating) for the non-initiated . . 

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Dreuge via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:24 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Dreuge
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again

 

Dave,

 

As I mentioned in previously replies to the list, it no longer makes any sense 
to buy lead acid batteries(i.e. flooded, gel, or AGM)  for a house bank.   For 
lead acid, the AH capacity is highly dependent on the current load due to the 
Peukert Effect.   Deep cycle lead acid batteries are rated at C/20.  For a 
100AH rated battery, this is 100AH/20H = 5A.   This is often called the 20H 
rate, i.e.  5A * 20H = 100AH. If the actual load is 20A, then the same 
100AH rated lead acid battery would only provide 60AH (or 10AH at 100A).  And 
worse, one should only use 50% of a lead acid battery’s capacity as going below 
50% substantially degrades the battery lifetime.   This means that a 100AH lead 
acid battery has an effective 50AH @ 5A (or 30AH @ 20A).  

 

Let’s assume a 100AH lead acid battery price of $264 (the average of the Amazon 
prices), then 2 batteries would cost one $528 and one would get an effective 
100AH (50%*200AH) at 5A loads.  

 

Now,  the price of LiFePO4 batteries have come way down in the last few years 
and their performance and lifetimes are a magnitude better.   A 100AH LiFePO4 
battery is typically rated at 1C.  That is they can deliver 100AH at 100A for 
1H(or 5A at 20H or 20A at 5H).  They can also charge at amps up to 100A which 
is impossible for a lead acid battery.   And LiFePO4 batteries live 5 times 
longer.  That is,  one would expect to replace 5 sets of lead acid batteries 
before replacing a LiFePO4 battery.Yes, LiFePO4 batteries are more complex 
as they require a battery management system (i.e. BMS), but there are companies 
which provide 12V drop in replacements with the BMS built internal to the 
battery.   Top companies like Battle Born sell a 100AH LiFePO4 for $874 and 
provide a 10yr warranty.   Renogy sells a 100AH LiFePO4 for $765.   A company, 
CurrentConnected.com  , sells a SOK 100AH LiFePO4 
battery for $569 and it has a 10 yr warranty!   YouTuber Will Prowse rates the 
SOK as the best value LiFePO4 12V drop in replacement (see 
https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html).  There are a 
plethora of cheaper 100AH LiFePO4 batteries that can be found on Amazon, Ebay, 
AliExpres, …, but one gets little service and limited warrantees,  so I would 
recommend avoiding these.

 

Rather than buying 2 100AH lead acid batteries for $528 at a total weight of 
140lbs(70lbs each) , one could just buy 1 100AH LiFePO4 for $569 weighing only 
28lbs and get a better performing battery.  That is basically the same price.   
If one takes into account the 

Stus-List Re: Batteries again

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

So Dave, would the SOK Battery 206Ah 12v LiFePO4 Battery Solar Battery be an 
equivalent swap-out for a Lifeline GPL-8DA 12 V 255 AH Battery?

This is a little confusing  (and intimidating) for the non-initiated . . 

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: Dreuge via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:24 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dreuge
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again

 

Dave,

 

As I mentioned in previously replies to the list, it no longer makes any sense 
to buy lead acid batteries(i.e. flooded, gel, or AGM)  for a house bank.   For 
lead acid, the AH capacity is highly dependent on the current load due to the 
Peukert Effect.   Deep cycle lead acid batteries are rated at C/20.  For a 
100AH rated battery, this is 100AH/20H = 5A.   This is often called the 20H 
rate, i.e.  5A * 20H = 100AH. If the actual load is 20A, then the same 
100AH rated lead acid battery would only provide 60AH (or 10AH at 100A).  And 
worse, one should only use 50% of a lead acid battery’s capacity as going below 
50% substantially degrades the battery lifetime.   This means that a 100AH lead 
acid battery has an effective 50AH @ 5A (or 30AH @ 20A).  

 

Let’s assume a 100AH lead acid battery price of $264 (the average of the Amazon 
prices), then 2 batteries would cost one $528 and one would get an effective 
100AH (50%*200AH) at 5A loads.  

 

Now,  the price of LiFePO4 batteries have come way down in the last few years 
and their performance and lifetimes are a magnitude better.   A 100AH LiFePO4 
battery is typically rated at 1C.  That is they can deliver 100AH at 100A for 
1H(or 5A at 20H or 20A at 5H).  They can also charge at amps up to 100A which 
is impossible for a lead acid battery.   And LiFePO4 batteries live 5 times 
longer.  That is,  one would expect to replace 5 sets of lead acid batteries 
before replacing a LiFePO4 battery.Yes, LiFePO4 batteries are more complex 
as they require a battery management system (i.e. BMS), but there are companies 
which provide 12V drop in replacements with the BMS built internal to the 
battery.   Top companies like Battle Born sell a 100AH LiFePO4 for $874 and 
provide a 10yr warranty.   Renogy sells a 100AH LiFePO4 for $765.   A company, 
CurrentConnected.com, sells a SOK 100AH LiFePO4 battery for $569 and it has a 
10 yr warranty!   YouTuber Will Prowse rates the SOK as the best value LiFePO4 
12V drop in replacement (see 
https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html).  There are a 
plethora of cheaper 100AH LiFePO4 batteries that can be found on Amazon, Ebay, 
AliExpres, …, but one gets little service and limited warrantees,  so I would 
recommend avoiding these.

 

Rather than buying 2 100AH lead acid batteries for $528 at a total weight of 
140lbs(70lbs each) , one could just buy 1 100AH LiFePO4 for $569 weighing only 
28lbs and get a better performing battery.  That is basically the same price.   
If one takes into account the increased lifetime, the saving is HUGE!  

 

If one builds their own DIY LiFePO4 battery, the savings is much much greater.  
 Last year I replaced 2 100AH lead acid batteries with one DIY 560AH LiFePO4 
battery for a little over $900 (see my blog link below).  The DIY LiFePO4 
battery occupies the same location and physical space as the previous 2 lead 
acid batteries, it weighs much less (95 lbs vs 125 lbs), but has 5 TIMES the 
capacity.

 

I recently gave a talk on off-grid solar systems a local  amateur radio society 
meeting.  The discuss the battery as the heart of the system and make the case 
for LiFePO4 batteries.  My slides from the talk are available on my blog:

 


https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html

 

 

Also, the details of my DIY 560AH LiFePO4 are posted at the link below which 
includes details about alternator charging. 

 


https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/06/adding-new-lifepo4-to-house-battery.html

 

 

 

 

Stus-List insulating VHF antenna mount

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hey guys,
Someone here at my boatyard said he had stray current from the VHF antenna 
until he isolated the bracker from the mast.

I googled it but didn't find easy answers.

Anybody ever hear of this problem?  I can fab a plastic shim for the bracket 
but how do you isolate metal screws from the metal mast?

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R, Annapolis

Stus-List Re: Batteries again

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Matthew,

I did not mention this in the last email, but I still use a lead acid battery 
for a dedicated start battery.   I have my alternator connected directly to the 
start battery and I also use a battery combiner for charging the house bank.  
This was my simple solution for protecting the alternator from BMS disconnects, 
and since I already had a good start battery and a battery combiner, this was a 
no-cost safe LiFePO4 charging solution.  

I do have the ability to use the LiFePO4 battery as a start back up.  I would 
expect LiFePO4 batteries to perform fine as starting batteries.  If anything, 
the constant 13.2V load voltage would keep your engine's starter happy.  Low 
voltage drops are terrible for electric motors (i.e. starters and anchor 
windlasses).

I have heard of some sailors using a LiFePO4 motorcycle battery for starting 
diesel engines.  These batteries weigh about 2 lbs and while the capacity may 
only be ~5AH, they claim cold cranking amps (CCA ) of over 300A.  I have little 
interest and am somewhat cautious about these claims, but at $60 they are cheap 
enough to test out and many have pretty good reviews.  Check out the 5AH TPE 
Lithium Motorcycle Battery on Amazon.   Since most marine diesel starters draw 
less than 150A, 5AH would amount to 5AH/150A*60m/H = 2 continuous minutes of 
cranking. That’s a lot of cranking and comparable to that of a 100AH rated lead 
acid battery (recall that a C/20 rated 100AH lead acid battery effectively 
provides only 10AH at 100A discharge load).  

I don’t have the interest in these for a start battery, but we do have some 
club racers who are suspected of removing every other screw and stripping down 
the boat to save on weight, so replacing 70 lbs with 2 lbs seems a bit starter. 


Paul


-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/



> 
>> On May 26, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Matthew via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> This is excellent information.  Thanks, Paul.
>>  
>> One of the reasons I have hung on to my lead acid house batteries is that my 
>> charger has settings for AGM, lead, and maybe one other, but all three 
>> batteries must be of the same type.  The lead acid starting battery is 
>> isolated (combined for charging) has good cranking amps, so I have continued 
>> to use lead acid for the house.  How well do LiFePO4 batteries perform as 
>> starting batteries? 
>>  
>> From: Dreuge via CnC-List > > 
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:24 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>> Cc: Dreuge mailto:dre...@gmail.com>>
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again
>>  
>> Dave,
>>  
>> As I mentioned in previously replies to the list, it no longer makes any 
>> sense to buy lead acid batteries(i.e. flooded, gel, or AGM)  for a house 
>> bank.   For lead acid, the AH capacity is highly dependent on the current 
>> load due to the Peukert Effect.   Deep cycle lead acid batteries are rated 
>> at C/20.  For a 100AH rated battery, this is 100AH/20H = 5A.   This is often 
>> called the 20H rate, i.e.  5A * 20H = 100AH. If the actual load is 20A, 
>> then the same 100AH rated lead acid battery would only provide 60AH (or 10AH 
>> at 100A).  And worse, one should only use 50% of a lead acid battery’s 
>> capacity as going below 50% substantially degrades the battery lifetime.   
>> This means that a 100AH lead acid battery has an effective 50AH @ 5A (or 
>> 30AH @ 20A).  
>>  
>> Let’s assume a 100AH lead acid battery price of $264 (the average of the 
>> Amazon prices), then 2 batteries would cost one $528 and one would get an 
>> effective 100AH (50%*200AH) at 5A loads.  
>>  
>> Now,  the price of LiFePO4 batteries have come way down in the last few 
>> years and their performance and lifetimes are a magnitude better.   A 100AH 
>> LiFePO4 battery is typically rated at 1C.  That is they can deliver 100AH at 
>> 100A for 1H(or 5A at 20H or 20A at 5H).  They can also charge at amps up to 
>> 100A which is impossible for a lead acid battery.   And LiFePO4 batteries 
>> live 5 times longer.  That is,  one would expect to replace 5 sets of lead 
>> acid batteries before replacing a LiFePO4 battery.Yes, LiFePO4 batteries 
>> are more complex as they require a battery management system (i.e. BMS), but 
>> there are companies which provide 12V drop in replacements with the BMS 
>> built internal to the battery.   Top companies like Battle Born sell a 100AH 
>> LiFePO4 for $874 and provide a 10yr warranty.   Renogy sells a 100AH LiFePO4 
>> for $765.   A company, CurrentConnected.com , 
>> sells a SOK 100AH LiFePO4 battery for $569 and it has a 10 yr warranty!   
>> YouTuber Will Prowse rates the SOK as the best value LiFePO4 12V drop in 
>> replacement (see https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html 
>> 

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Joe,

We charge house then, a via “Digital Duo”, the start battery.   That seems to 
be  the norm DC to DC.  Any reason you are doing it otherwise?

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 11:14 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.
I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.

Joe
Coquina

From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com; Korbey Hunt 
mailto:kampf2...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

Get Outlook for 
Android

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again


There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D871D0.1BC23BC0]

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

[Korbey Hunt via CnC-List]

Yes.  I plan to make my house bank lithium next fall.  It will isolated and 
solar charged.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 9:13:37 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again


My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.

I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.



Joe

Coquina



From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com; Korbey Hunt 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again



I highly recommend Lifeline group 31



Get Outlook for 
Android



From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again



There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store ??

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



>From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
>110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
>brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  
>Thanks- Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D871BA.CC1EDCA0]

Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

[Korbey Hunt via CnC-List]

It gets better the more time you spend on the boat.

Get Outlook for Android

From: John McCrea via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 7:34:44 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.


Well at some point, hopefully it does! This year was a big one.



From: John Read via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:47 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: John Read 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.



Geez John – it never ends :(



John Read



From: John McCrea via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 5:27 PM
To: 'Stus-List'
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.



thanks



From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 5:26 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.



I think that Kuuma are the closest as a direct replacement, but they don’t last 
too long. Depending on how you use your boat, you may want to consider a water 
heater with a stainless tank. I installed an ISO-Temp heater (they are now part 
of the Webasto group). They come with the temperature regulating valve and they 
are supposed to be quite reliable. But the cost is usually a bit higher.



Marek

1994 C270 Legato

Ottawa, ON



From: John McCrea via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 2:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net
Subject: Stus-List Hot Water Heater.



Hello. While working on my packing nut I noticed that one of the hot water 
leads from the heat exchanger snapped off. The inlet fitting was completely 
corroded through. Same with the other exit side. Glad I am still on land!



It is a Force 10 and could even be original. Since they are welded on it is 
time to replace. I noticed that Force 10 no longer makes them and Kuuma is now 
the closest replacement? Looks identical. Anyone have one of these? Thanks.



John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Batteries again

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My batteries are pretty well shot, so this is all good info for me as well. I 
always liked gels myself, but they are getting pretty hard to find now.
I have been getting pretty tempted to go for a 300ah lithium, it will fit right 
in and give me a TON more amp-hours. If I go that way I am going to swap the 
alternator cable to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger for the house 
bank. One perhaps not appreciated feature of lithium batteries is that they are 
“stiff”, you maintain around 12.8 volts most of the way to being dead. 
Wednesday morning I went to check into the Waterway Net and the SSB wasn’t real 
happy to be seeing 12.4 volts, this would not be an issue with a lithium bank 
unless it was down to its very last bit of juice.

Joe
Coquina

From: Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:12 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com; Korbey Hunt 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Batteries again

I highly recommend Lifeline group 31

Get Outlook for Android

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:40:31 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Batteries again


There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker.

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA







From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again



I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline  rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457



From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  Thanks- 
Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D871BA.CC1EDCA0]

Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

Well at some point, hopefully it does! This year was a big one.

 

From: John Read via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:47 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: John Read 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

 

Geez John - it never ends :(

 

John Read

 

From: John McCrea via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 5:27 PM
To: 'Stus-List'
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net  
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

 

thanks

 

From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 5:26 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

 

I think that Kuuma are the closest as a direct replacement, but they don't
last too long. Depending on how you use your boat, you may want to consider
a water heater with a stainless tank. I installed an ISO-Temp heater (they
are now part of the Webasto group). They come with the temperature
regulating valve and they are supposed to be quite reliable. But the cost is
usually a bit higher.

 

Marek

1994 C270 Legato

Ottawa, ON

 

From: John McCrea via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 2:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: johnmcc...@comcast.net  
Subject: Stus-List Hot Water Heater.

 

Hello. While working on my packing nut I noticed that one of the hot water
leads from the heat exchanger snapped off. The inlet fitting was completely
corroded through. Same with the other exit side. Glad I am still on land!

 

It is a Force 10 and could even be original. Since they are welded on it is
time to replace. I noticed that Force 10 no longer makes them and Kuuma is
now the closest replacement? Looks identical. Anyone have one of these?
Thanks.

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Went down to Rinse/fill my water tanks last nite, after around 10 - 15
minutes of pumping rinse water overboard, I happened to look in the engine
room, and there was water pouring all over - some unnamed moron forgot to
close the drain valve on the hot water tank last fall.

Sometimes I make more work for myself than I accomplish.

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

From: John Read via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 9:47 PM
To: 'Stus-List'
Cc: John Read
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hot Water Heater.

 

Geez John - it never ends L

 

John Read

 

 

Stus-List Re: Marinas - Northern Chesapeake

[nausetbeach--- via CnC-List]

Thanks guys.  Will take a closer look at Log Pond / Havre de Grace marina -
and yes they appear to be affiliated.  They are closer to the C than
Annapolis / Kent Island area but we have car logistics to juggle as well.
Much more fun to be looking at planning this than what should be happening
today. 

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:50 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Stus-List ; Neil Andersen

Subject: Stus-List Re: Marinas - Northern Chesapeake

 

Used to be

 

Neil Andersen, W3NEA 

Rock Hall, MD 21661

484-354-8800

  _  

From: Josh via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:21:04 PM
Cc: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >; Josh
mailto:muckl...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Marinas - Northern Chesapeake 

 

Maybe.  I don't know. 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 

 

May 26, 2022 12:02:50 PM Neil Andersen :

Isn't  Log Pond affiliated with Havre de Grace Marina just above the bridge?


 

Neil Andersen, W3NEA  

Rock Hall, MD 21661 

484-354-8800 

  _  

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 10:51:14 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Marinas - Northern Chesapeake 

  

I don't know if Brian Fry is still on the list but he lives on his boat(S)
out of Havre De Grace.  It is a bit of a stretch up the river but I imagine
the slips are pretty cost effective.  I believe he's at Log Pond IIRC?  It's
a marina tied to condos.  Marine services are not their  bread and butter so
if you're looking for full service you should probably look elsewhere but
the floating docks and break wall are certainly nice enough to store a boat
for a month. 

 

Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk  

1989 C 37+ 

Solomons, MD  

 

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 10:19 Joel Aronson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

Brian, 

 

I don't know how long you can leave a boat on a mooring in Annapolis, but a
much cheaper option.  Check with the harbormaster.  There are several
marinas just north of Annapolis in Whitehall Bay that will be cheaper if
they have space.  Or you can move north to the Magothy or Middle River.  I
can't recommend specific marinas, but the Waterway Guide should help you
find the right place. 

 

Joel 

 

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 10:12 AM nausetbeach--- via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

All, 

We may need to leave a boat in the northern Chesapeake for a couple weeks to
a month this July.  Can anybody recommend a marina with available slips or
moorings that might not break the bank for a transient?  Do not need lots of
amenities and services [at least hope not.]  Water and pump out, clean fuel
a plus.  

 

The plan would be to eventually head north through the C and on to NYC and
western LIS.  Would also need to return a rental car and then a taxi or Uber
back to the yard prior to departing.  Have looked at Jabin's and Port
Annapolis, but might guess some other locations not in Annapolis might be
less, though maybe not.  Harge's or Herrington Harbor North would be making
a longer trip for the delivery, and do not appear to be relatively close to
a rental car return, though maybe taxis / Uber might not be too bad.  

 

Any suggestions?  

 

Thanks,

Brian




 

-- 

Joel