Stus-List Re: bed-it butyl tape source

2022-10-26 Thread Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
Like Bill, I’m a fan of 3M products.  On my 34, I used a 3M black butyl tape to 
re-bed my genny tracks.  Seemed to work fine, but it did noticeably and 
unexpectedly ooze out over time.  I now use Bed-it due to advice from this 
list.  I believe it’s superior to the 3M product I used.

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 20:27 Rick Brass via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I still have about a half a roll of 3M butyl tape purchased about 18 years ago 
at an auto supply house that caters to body shops. Long time ago, when I was in 
the car business working for GM, I learned that there were no higher quality 
alternatives to 3M products. So that has pretty much been my go-to source for 
adhesives and so forth. In the 18 years I’ve had Imzadi I’ve never had a leak 
or had any of the 3M tape squish out from under the hardware.

 

Never tried Bed-It Butyl, though I know it to be highly regarded by those on 
the list. So I can’t compare it to what I’ve used. But 3M stuff is readily 
available and performs well in my experience.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 ] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2022 6:02 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Bill Coleman mailto:colt...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: bed-it butyl tape source

 

My feeling of the Bed-it-Butyl, is that it seems to kind of hold together.

While the original or garden variety from the RV stores keeps moving, under 
head it seems like it will drip away, while the Bed-it seems to not move, more 
firm,  like it has invisible fibers in it. (it doesn't)

 

Also, diesel will dissolve it, as well as 5200 and 4200.

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie PA

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 5:26 PM Dave S via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

It would be interesting to compare bed-it to other butyl tapes.   I find it 
doubtful that it has any special marine magic mojo that other quality products 
don’t.it is very likely Rod found a good product he trusted, has had 
private labelled, and has done a good job of promoting it.  (Good for him)   
Likely there is another brand out there with identical packaging etc….

 

The butyl C used originally has stood up really well and I’d use that for any 
refit, knowing it will outlast me.

Long shot here but does anyone know what the factory used?

Dave 33-2 windstar 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Oct 25, 2022, at 12:34 PM, Leeward Rail via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Thanks Paul. I have ordered some and will compare it. 

 

Oct. 25, 2022 8:06:14 a.m. Dreuge via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >:

I have purchased Dicor butyl tape from Amazon.  I have been using it for 
several years now, and this stuff is the real deal.  See "Dicor BT-1834-1 1/8" 
x 3/4”  

x 30' Butyl Seal Tape” for $11.86 Prime free delivery.   

 

Here is the link to Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Dicor-BT-1834-1-Butyl-Seal-Tape/dp/B001FCB4JS/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=butyl%2Btape
 

 
=1666702413=eyJxc2MiOiI0Ljk1IiwicXNhIjoiNC4zNiIsInFzcCI6IjQuMTIifQ%3D%3D=buty%2Caps%2C92=8-3=1
 

 

 

-
Paul E. 

1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL 

 

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ 

 

On Oct 25, 2022, at 8:05 AM, John Irvin via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 


On Oct 25, 2022, at 7:51 AM, schiller via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 If you can't get Bed-it.  Try your local RV store for Dicor Butyl tape.  I 
have both and find them similar.

Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan

On 10/24/2022 11:16 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Still looking for a source for Bed-it butyl tape.  Every one I check is sold 
out or out of stock.  Has anyone bought some recently? 

 

Chuck S

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread Wyatt via CnC-List 
Check your grounds! On my 36-1 there was a big ground connection near the
side of the engine compartment (so under the companionway steps) that had
josstled itself loose and caused a ton of weird electrical issues. I'd
recommend spending some time tracing the wires coming from your batteries,
especially on the ground/negative side of things, and look for loose/bad
connections. Good luck!

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:34 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Picture helps jog the memory.  That is exactly what the panel I have as
> well.  I remember the needle bouncing a bit when I push the glow plug
> button, but I don’t think it went to 30.  Will have to check.  I am glad
> you reminded me of that article.  One thing I think I can do is run the
> orange power wire  directly to the glow plug switch and see what happens.
> The meters won’t work, but I presume the engine should crank.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2022, at 1:56 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> My ammeter had numbers just like the picture of the control panel shown in
> that article. The article also shows a wiring diagram.
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:57 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> It is wired just like the Universal manual diagram except that the jumper
>> for the start button was moved to the glow plug plus side so the two
>> switches are independent and you can start without pushing the glow plug
>> button.  I don’t remember what the ammeter shows when starting but I don’t
>> think my gauge has numbers.  I have not installed the glow plug solenoid he
>> discusses so that is stock.  Dave
>>
>> David Knecht
>> Rear Commodore
>> Thames Yacht Club
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 12:44 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> How is the ammeter at the control panel wired. Does the charge current
>> from the alternator go all the way from the alternator up to the ammeter on
>> the instrument panel and then back to the batteries?  I always felt that
>> glow plug button was kind of special and I noticed that my ammeter showed
>> 30 or more when I depressed it and for as long as it was depressed.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are a few answers to the comments:
>>>
>>> All of this started with replacement of old switches for new ones. Same
>>> wires but each terminal cleaned before attachment.   I find it hard to
>>> believe that cleaned terminals and new switches caused a ground fault
>>> problem at some remote site that was not there before.  Things were
>>> generally working before I did anything. Now nothing works.
>>>
>>> To Dwights suggestion: After reading that Marine How to article years
>>> ago, I replaced all the trailer connectors with heat shrink direct butt
>>> splice connectors for each wire. I also installed a Blue Seas ACR/battery
>>> switch, so the batteries are supposed to be isolated.
>>>
>>> I really can’t understand how this problem is affecting both batteries
>>> when the two circuits are isolated by the ACR.  When I try to start the
>>> engine, everything goes crazy- including both battery volt meter readings.
>>> The meter goes completely blank as if both batteries are dead and then
>>> voltage slowly recovers over time.
>>>
>>> I am also mystified by how I can be measuring over 12V on the plus side
>>> of the key switch and 10V on the other side when it is on.  That is
>>> measured relative to a ground terminal on the tachometer.  There is nothing
>>> there except the switch itself, right?  I am guessing that means something
>>> in terms of the problem, but I don’t know what.
>>> Thanks- Dave
>>>
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 11:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control
>>> panel with ammeter this article contains some very important information
>>> for you to know.
>>>  Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To
>>> 
>>> Dwight Veinot
>>> C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine
 panel ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked
 at the input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key
 switch on, I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere
 downstream. I am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not
 understand what that means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird
 thing is that as I

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
Picture helps jog the memory.  That is exactly what the panel I have as well.  
I remember the needle bouncing a bit when I push the glow plug button, but I 
don’t think it went to 30.  Will have to check.  I am glad you reminded me of 
that article.  One thing I think I can do is run the orange power wire  
directly to the glow plug switch and see what happens.  The meters won’t work, 
but I presume the engine should crank.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Oct 26, 2022, at 1:56 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My ammeter had numbers just like the picture of the control panel shown in 
> that article. The article also shows a wiring diagram. 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:57 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> It is wired just like the Universal manual diagram except that the jumper for 
> the start button was moved to the glow plug plus side so the two switches are 
> independent and you can start without pushing the glow plug button.  I don’t 
> remember what the ammeter shows when starting but I don’t think my gauge has 
> numbers.  I have not installed the glow plug solenoid he discusses so that is 
> stock.  Dave
> 
> David Knecht
> Rear Commodore
> Thames Yacht Club
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 12:44 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> How is the ammeter at the control panel wired. Does the charge current from 
>> the alternator go all the way from the alternator up to the ammeter on the 
>> instrument panel and then back to the batteries?  I always felt that glow 
>> plug button was kind of special and I noticed that my ammeter showed 30 or 
>> more when I depressed it and for as long as it was depressed. 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> Here are a few answers to the comments:  
>> 
>> All of this started with replacement of old switches for new ones. Same 
>> wires but each terminal cleaned before attachment.   I find it hard to 
>> believe that cleaned terminals and new switches caused a ground fault 
>> problem at some remote site that was not there before.  Things were 
>> generally working before I did anything. Now nothing works.
>>  
>> To Dwights suggestion: After reading that Marine How to article years ago, I 
>> replaced all the trailer connectors with heat shrink direct butt splice 
>> connectors for each wire. I also installed a Blue Seas ACR/battery switch, 
>> so the batteries are supposed to be isolated.
>> 
>> I really can’t understand how this problem is affecting both batteries when 
>> the two circuits are isolated by the ACR.  When I try to start the engine, 
>> everything goes crazy- including both battery volt meter readings.  The 
>> meter goes completely blank as if both batteries are dead and then voltage 
>> slowly recovers over time.
>> 
>> I am also mystified by how I can be measuring over 12V on the plus side of 
>> the key switch and 10V on the other side when it is on.  That is measured 
>> relative to a ground terminal on the tachometer.  There is nothing there 
>> except the switch itself, right?  I am guessing that means something in 
>> terms of the problem, but I don’t know what.
>> Thanks- Dave
>> 
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 11:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control panel 
>>> with ammeter this article contains some very important information for you 
>>> to know. 
>>>  Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To 
>>> 
>>> Dwight Veinot
>>> C 35 MKII, Alianna
>>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
>>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>>> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine panel 
>>> ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked at 
>>> the input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key switch 
>>> on, I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere 
>>> downstream. I am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not 
>>> understand what that means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird 
>>> thing is that as I have worked on this, there are times when the battery 
>>> meter in the cabin bounces all over the place from 9V to 12V and back and 
>>> then finally settles at 12.9V.  At the same time, the batteries are 
>>> measuring 12.5V.  Something very strange is happening.  Dave
>>> 
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List 
My ammeter had numbers just like the picture of the control panel shown in
that article. The article also shows a wiring diagram.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:57 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> It is wired just like the Universal manual diagram except that the jumper
> for the start button was moved to the glow plug plus side so the two
> switches are independent and you can start without pushing the glow plug
> button.  I don’t remember what the ammeter shows when starting but I don’t
> think my gauge has numbers.  I have not installed the glow plug solenoid he
> discusses so that is stock.  Dave
>
> David Knecht
> Rear Commodore
> Thames Yacht Club
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2022, at 12:44 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> How is the ammeter at the control panel wired. Does the charge current
> from the alternator go all the way from the alternator up to the ammeter on
> the instrument panel and then back to the batteries?  I always felt that
> glow plug button was kind of special and I noticed that my ammeter showed
> 30 or more when I depressed it and for as long as it was depressed.
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Here are a few answers to the comments:
>>
>> All of this started with replacement of old switches for new ones. Same
>> wires but each terminal cleaned before attachment.   I find it hard to
>> believe that cleaned terminals and new switches caused a ground fault
>> problem at some remote site that was not there before.  Things were
>> generally working before I did anything. Now nothing works.
>>
>> To Dwights suggestion: After reading that Marine How to article years
>> ago, I replaced all the trailer connectors with heat shrink direct butt
>> splice connectors for each wire. I also installed a Blue Seas ACR/battery
>> switch, so the batteries are supposed to be isolated.
>>
>> I really can’t understand how this problem is affecting both batteries
>> when the two circuits are isolated by the ACR.  When I try to start the
>> engine, everything goes crazy- including both battery volt meter readings.
>> The meter goes completely blank as if both batteries are dead and then
>> voltage slowly recovers over time.
>>
>> I am also mystified by how I can be measuring over 12V on the plus side
>> of the key switch and 10V on the other side when it is on.  That is
>> measured relative to a ground terminal on the tachometer.  There is nothing
>> there except the switch itself, right?  I am guessing that means something
>> in terms of the problem, but I don’t know what.
>> Thanks- Dave
>>
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>> 
>>
>
>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 11:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control panel
>> with ammeter this article contains some very important information for you
>> to know.
>>  Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine
>>> panel ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked
>>> at the input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key
>>> switch on, I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere
>>> downstream. I am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not
>>> understand what that means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird
>>> thing is that as I have worked on this, there are times when the battery
>>> meter in the cabin bounces all over the place from 9V to 12V and back and
>>> then finally settles at 12.9V.  At the same time, the batteries are
>>> measuring 12.5V.  Something very strange is happening.  Dave
>>>
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> HELP!  I am stumped and hoping someone can point me in the right
>>> direction.  Long descrition as best i can recall. Two weeks ago i thought i
>>> would get a head start on a project. My start button has been flakey this
>>> summer with now and then nothing happening when pressed. Decided to replace
>>> key switch, glow plug and start buttons. I installed key and glow but could
>>> not get start out so gave up. Engine started fine after rewiring. Come back
>>> next week and no response to start button. Battery fine. Lots of messing
>>> around but no luck. Come back today and wire in new start button in case
>>> old bad. Recheck wiring and realize key switch is wired backwards (does it
>>> matter? I guess you

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
It is wired just like the Universal manual diagram except that the jumper for 
the start button was moved to the glow plug plus side so the two switches are 
independent and you can start without pushing the glow plug button.  I don’t 
remember what the ammeter shows when starting but I don’t think my gauge has 
numbers.  I have not installed the glow plug solenoid he discusses so that is 
stock.  Dave

David Knecht
Rear Commodore
Thames Yacht Club
New London, CT



> On Oct 26, 2022, at 12:44 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> How is the ammeter at the control panel wired. Does the charge current from 
> the alternator go all the way from the alternator up to the ammeter on the 
> instrument panel and then back to the batteries?  I always felt that glow 
> plug button was kind of special and I noticed that my ammeter showed 30 or 
> more when I depressed it and for as long as it was depressed. 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Here are a few answers to the comments:  
> 
> All of this started with replacement of old switches for new ones. Same wires 
> but each terminal cleaned before attachment.   I find it hard to believe that 
> cleaned terminals and new switches caused a ground fault problem at some 
> remote site that was not there before.  Things were generally working before 
> I did anything. Now nothing works.
>  
> To Dwights suggestion: After reading that Marine How to article years ago, I 
> replaced all the trailer connectors with heat shrink direct butt splice 
> connectors for each wire. I also installed a Blue Seas ACR/battery switch, so 
> the batteries are supposed to be isolated.
> 
> I really can’t understand how this problem is affecting both batteries when 
> the two circuits are isolated by the ACR.  When I try to start the engine, 
> everything goes crazy- including both battery volt meter readings.  The meter 
> goes completely blank as if both batteries are dead and then voltage slowly 
> recovers over time.
> 
> I am also mystified by how I can be measuring over 12V on the plus side of 
> the key switch and 10V on the other side when it is on.  That is measured 
> relative to a ground terminal on the tachometer.  There is nothing there 
> except the switch itself, right?  I am guessing that means something in terms 
> of the problem, but I don’t know what.
> Thanks- Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 11:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control panel 
>> with ammeter this article contains some very important information for you 
>> to know. 
>>  Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To 
>> 
>> Dwight Veinot
>> C 35 MKII, Alianna
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> d.ve...@bellaliant.net 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine panel 
>> ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked at the 
>> input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key switch on, 
>> I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere downstream. I 
>> am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not understand what that 
>> means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird thing is that as I have 
>> worked on this, there are times when the battery meter in the cabin bounces 
>> all over the place from 9V to 12V and back and then finally settles at 
>> 12.9V.  At the same time, the batteries are measuring 12.5V.  Something very 
>> strange is happening.  Dave
>> 
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> HELP!  I am stumped and hoping someone can point me in the right direction. 
>>>  Long descrition as best i can recall. Two weeks ago i thought i would get 
>>> a head start on a project. My start button has been flakey this summer with 
>>> now and then nothing happening when pressed. Decided to replace key switch, 
>>> glow plug and start buttons. I installed key and glow but could not get 
>>> start out so gave up. Engine started fine after rewiring. Come back next 
>>> week and no response to start button. Battery fine. Lots of messing around 
>>> but no luck. Come back today and wire in new start button in case old bad. 
>>> Recheck wiring and realize key switch is wired backwards (does it matter? I 
>>> guess you are supplying power to downstream stuff when off?). Did not check 
>>> and misremembered which wire supplied power. Swapped wires on key switch 
>>> and checked meter and 12v on proper side

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List 
How is the ammeter at the control panel wired. Does the charge current from
the alternator go all the way from the alternator up to the ammeter on the
instrument panel and then back to the batteries?  I always felt that glow
plug button was kind of special and I noticed that my ammeter showed 30 or
more when I depressed it and for as long as it was depressed.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Here are a few answers to the comments:
>
> All of this started with replacement of old switches for new ones. Same
> wires but each terminal cleaned before attachment.   I find it hard to
> believe that cleaned terminals and new switches caused a ground fault
> problem at some remote site that was not there before.  Things were
> generally working before I did anything. Now nothing works.
>
> To Dwights suggestion: After reading that Marine How to article years ago,
> I replaced all the trailer connectors with heat shrink direct butt splice
> connectors for each wire. I also installed a Blue Seas ACR/battery switch,
> so the batteries are supposed to be isolated.
>
> I really can’t understand how this problem is affecting both batteries
> when the two circuits are isolated by the ACR.  When I try to start the
> engine, everything goes crazy- including both battery volt meter readings.
> The meter goes completely blank as if both batteries are dead and then
> voltage slowly recovers over time.
>
> I am also mystified by how I can be measuring over 12V on the plus side of
> the key switch and 10V on the other side when it is on.  That is measured
> relative to a ground terminal on the tachometer.  There is nothing there
> except the switch itself, right?  I am guessing that means something in
> terms of the problem, but I don’t know what.
> Thanks- Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2022, at 11:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control panel
> with ammeter this article contains some very important information for you
> to know.
>  Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To
> 
> Dwight Veinot
> C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine
>> panel ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked
>> at the input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key
>> switch on, I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere
>> downstream. I am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not
>> understand what that means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird
>> thing is that as I have worked on this, there are times when the battery
>> meter in the cabin bounces all over the place from 9V to 12V and back and
>> then finally settles at 12.9V.  At the same time, the batteries are
>> measuring 12.5V.  Something very strange is happening.  Dave
>>
>> S/V Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>>
>> 
>>
>
>> On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> HELP!  I am stumped and hoping someone can point me in the right
>> direction.  Long descrition as best i can recall. Two weeks ago i thought i
>> would get a head start on a project. My start button has been flakey this
>> summer with now and then nothing happening when pressed. Decided to replace
>> key switch, glow plug and start buttons. I installed key and glow but could
>> not get start out so gave up. Engine started fine after rewiring. Come back
>> next week and no response to start button. Battery fine. Lots of messing
>> around but no luck. Come back today and wire in new start button in case
>> old bad. Recheck wiring and realize key switch is wired backwards (does it
>> matter? I guess you are supplying power to downstream stuff when off?). Did
>> not check and misremembered which wire supplied power. Swapped wires on key
>> switch and checked meter and 12v on proper side (bat).All looks good.  Turn
>> on key switch and fuel pump starts as normal. Push start button and
>> nothing. Now i measure 4v at engine panel instead of 12. Battery meters
>> dead display and measuring 4v at its inputs. But 12v at battery and main
>> power switch. Other devices fine. Over an hour now and panel and battery
>> meter up to 6v so seems to be slowly recovering. What is going on? Did i
>> screw something up when key switch was backwards?  Dave
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
Here are a few answers to the comments:  

All of this started with replacement of old switches for new ones. Same wires 
but each terminal cleaned before attachment.   I find it hard to believe that 
cleaned terminals and new switches caused a ground fault problem at some remote 
site that was not there before.  Things were generally working before I did 
anything. Now nothing works.
 
To Dwights suggestion: After reading that Marine How to article years ago, I 
replaced all the trailer connectors with heat shrink direct butt splice 
connectors for each wire. I also installed a Blue Seas ACR/battery switch, so 
the batteries are supposed to be isolated.

I really can’t understand how this problem is affecting both batteries when the 
two circuits are isolated by the ACR.  When I try to start the engine, 
everything goes crazy- including both battery volt meter readings.  The meter 
goes completely blank as if both batteries are dead and then voltage slowly 
recovers over time.

I am also mystified by how I can be measuring over 12V on the plus side of the 
key switch and 10V on the other side when it is on.  That is measured relative 
to a ground terminal on the tachometer.  There is nothing there except the 
switch itself, right?  I am guessing that means something in terms of the 
problem, but I don’t know what.
Thanks- Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Oct 26, 2022, at 11:48 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control panel 
> with ammeter this article contains some very important information for you to 
> know. 
>  Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To 
> 
> Dwight Veinot
> C 35 MKII, Alianna
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine panel 
> ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked at the 
> input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key switch on, I 
> got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere downstream. I am 
> presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not understand what that means 
> and hoping someone else does.  The other weird thing is that as I have worked 
> on this, there are times when the battery meter in the cabin bounces all over 
> the place from 9V to 12V and back and then finally settles at 12.9V.  At the 
> same time, the batteries are measuring 12.5V.  Something very strange is 
> happening.  Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> HELP!  I am stumped and hoping someone can point me in the right direction.  
>> Long descrition as best i can recall. Two weeks ago i thought i would get a 
>> head start on a project. My start button has been flakey this summer with 
>> now and then nothing happening when pressed. Decided to replace key switch, 
>> glow plug and start buttons. I installed key and glow but could not get 
>> start out so gave up. Engine started fine after rewiring. Come back next 
>> week and no response to start button. Battery fine. Lots of messing around 
>> but no luck. Come back today and wire in new start button in case old bad. 
>> Recheck wiring and realize key switch is wired backwards (does it matter? I 
>> guess you are supplying power to downstream stuff when off?). Did not check 
>> and misremembered which wire supplied power. Swapped wires on key switch and 
>> checked meter and 12v on proper side (bat).All looks good.  Turn on key 
>> switch and fuel pump starts as normal. Push start button and nothing. Now i 
>> measure 4v at engine panel instead of 12. Battery meters dead display and 
>> measuring 4v at its inputs. But 12v at battery and main power switch. Other 
>> devices fine. Over an hour now and panel and battery meter up to 6v so seems 
>> to be slowly recovering. What is going on? Did i screw something up when key 
>> switch was backwards?  Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread dwight veinot via CnC-List 
If you have a Universal M4-30 engine with associated engine control panel
with ammeter this article contains some very important information for you
to know.
 Universal Diesel Engine - Wiring Harness Upgrade - Marine How To

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net



On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 11:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine
> panel ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked
> at the input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key
> switch on, I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere
> downstream. I am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not
> understand what that means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird
> thing is that as I have worked on this, there are times when the battery
> meter in the cabin bounces all over the place from 9V to 12V and back and
> then finally settles at 12.9V.  At the same time, the batteries are
> measuring 12.5V.  Something very strange is happening.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> HELP!  I am stumped and hoping someone can point me in the right
> direction.  Long descrition as best i can recall. Two weeks ago i thought i
> would get a head start on a project. My start button has been flakey this
> summer with now and then nothing happening when pressed. Decided to replace
> key switch, glow plug and start buttons. I installed key and glow but could
> not get start out so gave up. Engine started fine after rewiring. Come back
> next week and no response to start button. Battery fine. Lots of messing
> around but no luck. Come back today and wire in new start button in case
> old bad. Recheck wiring and realize key switch is wired backwards (does it
> matter? I guess you are supplying power to downstream stuff when off?). Did
> not check and misremembered which wire supplied power. Swapped wires on key
> switch and checked meter and 12v on proper side (bat).All looks good.  Turn
> on key switch and fuel pump starts as normal. Push start button and
> nothing. Now i measure 4v at engine panel instead of 12. Battery meters
> dead display and measuring 4v at its inputs. But 12v at battery and main
> power switch. Other devices fine. Over an hour now and panel and battery
> meter up to 6v so seems to be slowly recovering. What is going on? Did i
> screw something up when key switch was backwards?  Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Start panel mystery

2022-10-26 Thread Dreuge via CnC-List 
Yes, good advise.  But measuring a voltage can fool you as it will not show a 
bad high resistance unless there is a load (i.e drawn current).  Without a 
load, a meter could read full battery voltage available at wire ends, but with 
an actual load, the voltage at the wire could be significantly different.   One 
could measure continuity and/or resistance to help find a problem.  

For example, I recently installed a relay powered by the ignition key wire that 
lead to convenient terminal block.  The voltage at the terminal block when the 
key was turned on was 13.2V.  Once connected, the relay would not work as the 
terminal block voltage dropped to 4V.  The “Gremlin” (i.e. problem) was a bad 
4ft wire going from the key to the terminal block.  It was an old wire with 2 
crimped on ring terminals.  I just replace it with a tinned Ancor wire and new 
heat shrink terminals.  Once done, all worked perfectly with no voltage drop at 
the terminal block when the relay in operations.   

-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Oct 25, 2022, at 11:29 PM, Dave S via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Ahhh. The old slant 6 trick….
> 
> Dave - clean all your grounds and clean and tighten all connections.  The 
> bouncing meter is a clue to an intermittent or loose connection.  It can also 
> be a switch oxidizing or otherwise failing.   
> 
>  I assume you are measuring your voltage with reference to a local ground.  
> (Meaning near the switch).  Measure that but also measure with the meter 
> connected to the battery ground (-) terminal directly.   If the values differ 
> you know you have a bad (high resistance) ground.   You can also verify this 
> by measuring the resistance between those points.  
> Mine had little  problems due to loose contacts in switches, poor diy 
> terminations, and a big problem most importantly, due to an oxidized lug 
> connecting the entire control harness to the engine.   It has been 
> bulletproof since I worked on it - cleaning, tightening, protecting with 
> dielectric grease and re-doing the prior owners substandard work.
> I assume you are working with a schematic, stepwise through each circuit. 
> 
> Dave 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2022, at 9:11 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> You need a  better meter that registers volts in tenths or hundreths of 
>> volts.  Sounds like the batteries are OK.  Eventually you will find a bad 
>> connection between the battery and the switch and the starter.  Best to 
>> eliminate those control wire harness quick connects and wire the red lead 
>> straight from the battery to the control panel and then back to the starter. 
>>  
>> 
>> I keep a large screw driver onboard and the rare times the panel button 
>> didn't work, I simply shorted the terminals at the starter, to override the 
>> solenoid and engage the starter.  I've since rewired that red wire and it 
>> starts every time using the panel start button.
>> 
>> Chuck S
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>> On 10/25/2022 10:10 PM David Knecht via CnC-List  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> More diagnosis- I found that when I checked the voltage at the engine panel 
>>> ammeter (where power comes to the panel), it was 12V.  When I checked at 
>>> the input side of the key switch it was 12 V.  When I turned the key switch 
>>> on, I got 10V on the other pole of the key switch and everywhere 
>>> downstream. I am presuming it should be 12V on both sides. I do not 
>>> understand what that means and hoping someone else does.  The other weird 
>>> thing is that as I have worked on this, there are times when the battery 
>>> meter in the cabin bounces all over the place from 9V to 12V and back and 
>>> then finally settles at 12.9V.  At the same time, the batteries are 
>>> measuring 12.5V.  Something very strange is happening.  Dave
>>> 
>>> S/V Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>> 
> 
>>> 
 On Oct 25, 2022, at 2:56 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
 
 HELP!  I am stumped and hoping someone can point me in the right 
 direction.  Long descrition as best i can recall. Two weeks ago i thought 
 i would get a head start on a project. My start button has been flakey 
 this summer with now and then nothing happening when pressed. Decided to 
 replace key switch, glow plug and start buttons. I installed key and glow 
 but could not get start out so gave up. Engine started fine after 
 rewiring. Come back next week and no response to start button. Battery 
 fine. Lots of messing around but no luck. Come back today and wire in new 
 start button in case old bad. Recheck wiring and realize key switch is 
 wired backwards (does it matter? I guess you are supplying power to 
 downstream stuff when off?). Did not check and misremembered which wire 
 supplied power. Swapped wires on key switch and checked meter and 12v on

Stus-List Re: bed-it butyl tape source

2022-10-26 Thread John McCrea via CnC-List 
Did you try Hamilton Marine in Maine? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2022, at 10:17 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Still looking for a source for Bed-it butyl tape.  Every one I check is sold 
> out or out of stock.  Has anyone bought some recently? 
> 
> Chuck S

Stus-List Re: bed-it butyl tape source

2022-10-26 Thread Robert L. Tallman via CnC-List 
I would wager that Practical Sailor has done some sort of testing on bedding 
compounds in their history.  I have not looked to see if this is true, merely 
an assumption based on past reading and following of the publication.

Regards,

Bob Tallman
631.387.6748 
 
  On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 9:30 PM, leewardrail hotmail via 
CnC-List wrote:
"I still have about a half a roll of 3M butyl tape purchased about 18 years ago 
at an auto supply house that caters to body shops."
 
That's the thing... that was 18 years ago.  getting things like lacquer 
automotive paints and excellent anti-fouling 18 years ago was easy. As 
production costs and environmental rules increase, products change. Look at 
what Interlux just did with their anti-fouling product line.
 
 
I fully agree with 3M being good products, but even the 3M rep I dealt with 4 
years ago, admitted that have had to reformulate some products. That said, if I 
had to assume that someone made a decent butyl, it would be 3M. That would also 
assume the market is still big enough for a similar formulation, as opposed to 
profitable replacement products.
 
 
FWIW the Bed-it stuff is much stickier than the others i have used. That is the 
big thing IMO. I would love to see practical boat owner buy a bunch of butyl 
and test them.
 
 
Based on a thread I just found, looks like he sold the formulation and brand to 
sailboatowners.com, not just have them sell it.  
https://www.sailnet.com/threads/no-bed-it-butyl-tape.343577/ 
 
 
Cheers, Roy
 
 

 
  On 2022-10-25 7:26 p.m., Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:
  
 
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Roman", serif;}#yiv6791627304 span.yiv6791627304EmailStyle18 
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div.yiv6791627304WordSection1 {} 
I still have about a half a roll of 3M butyl tape purchased about 18 years ago 
at an auto supply house that caters to body shops. Long time ago, when I was in 
the car business working for GM, I learned that there were no higher quality 
alternatives to 3M products. So that has pretty much been my go-to source for 
adhesives and so forth. In the 18 years I’ve had Imzadi I’ve never had a leak 
or had any of the 3M tape squish out from under the hardware.
 
  
 
Never tried Bed-It Butyl, though I know it to be highly regarded by those on 
the list. So I can’t compare it to what I’ve used. But 3M stuff is readily 
available and performs well in my experience.
 
  
 
Rick Brass
 
Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47
 
la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225
 
Washington, NC
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2022 6:02 PM
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: Bill Coleman 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: bed-it butyl tape source
 
  
   
My feeling of the Bed-it-Butyl, is that it seems to kind of hold together.
   
While the original or garden variety from the RV stores keeps moving, under 
head it seems like it will drip away, while the Bed-it seems to not move, more 
firm,  like it has invisible fibers in it. (it doesn't)
   
  
   
Also, diesel will dissolve it, as well as 5200 and 4200.
   
  
   
Bill Coleman
   
Entrada, Erie PA
   
  
   
On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 5:26 PM Dave S via CnC-List  
wrote:
  
  
It would be interesting to compare bed-it to other butyl tapes.   I find it 
doubtful that it has any special marine magic mojo that other quality products 
don’t.    it is very likely Rod found a good product he trusted, has had 
private labelled, and has done a good job of promoting it.  (Good for him)   
Likely there is another brand out there with identical packaging etc….
  
  
  
The butyl C used originally has stood up really well and I’d use that for any 
refit, knowing it will outlast me.
   
Long shot here but does anyone know what the factory used?
   
Dave 33-2 windstar 
   
  
   
  
  
Sent from my iPhone
   

 
 
 
 
On Oct 25, 2022, at 12:34 PM, Leeward Rail via CnC-List  
wrote:
 
  
  
 
  
Thanks Paul. I have ordered some and will compare it. 
   
  
  
Oct. 25, 2022 8:06:14 a.m. Dreuge via CnC-List :
  
 
I have purchased Dicor butyl tape from Amazon.  I have been using it for 
several years now, and this stuff is the real deal.  See "Dicor BT-1834-1 1/8" 
x 3/4”  
  
x 30' Butyl Seal Tape” for $11.86 Prime free delivery.   
   
  
   
Here is