Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

If the grip range is too low (or the thickness of the wall too big), the 
threaded hole will be deformed. This will make it impossible to screw the bolt. 
If you have problems driving the bolt in, drill the RivNut out and use one with 
a bigger grip range.

I found that the RivNuts that come by default with the tool, are not long 
enough.

You said that you ordered extra ones, which is a good sign.

Btw. I used them to attach a clutch to the mast for my jib halyard. It is 
working well for two seasons.

Marek



Sent from my Android-based can on a string



 Original message 
From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
Date: 2022-10-31 22:34 (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

Marek:

Once again, I appreciate your insight.  Today I ordered some 
RivNuts and a tool.  I was concerned about the tight tolerance of the grip 
range, so I did additional research.  I found aluminum RivNuts with a broader 
grip range, so I decided to order them.  In addition, it occurred to me that 
having aluminum on aluminum was probably better.  The replacement screws will 
be stainless, but I can coat them with Tef Gel or something.  Better to not 
have dissimilar metals working against each other at the RivNut interface.

I think this will be a good solution.  Thanks to you and the 
other listers who provided advice.  I’ll keep you posted.

Matt

From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 9:34 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

Be very careful about the grip range. The RivNuts come in different sizes 
(guess how I know). Measure the thickness of the boom wall and get the right 
RivNuts.

When I needed them, I had to switch between imperial and metric to find the 
right size.

Good luck

Marek



Sent from my Android-based can on a string



 Original message 
From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Date: 2022-10-31 12:53 (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

Getting ready to pull the trigger on the RivNut idea.  The stainless RivNuts
I found have a grip range of 0.027"-0.125".  I was able to measure the
thickness of the aluminum I'm going through: 1/8" (maybe a micron or two
heavy), which is the top of the range.  For those familiar with these
things, should I look for RivNuts with a slightly longer grip range, or is a
.125 top end of the range meant for 1/8" applications?  Please advise (if
you know).  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:08 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for
pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts
sticking inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Marek:

 

Once again, I appreciate your insight.  Today I ordered some
RivNuts and a tool.  I was concerned about the tight tolerance of the grip
range, so I did additional research.  I found aluminum RivNuts with a
broader grip range, so I decided to order them.  In addition, it occurred to
me that having aluminum on aluminum was probably better.  The replacement
screws will be stainless, but I can coat them with Tef Gel or something.
Better to not have dissimilar metals working against each other at the
RivNut interface.

 

I think this will be a good solution.  Thanks to you and the
other listers who provided advice.  I'll keep you posted.

 

Matt

 

From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 9:34 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

 

Be very careful about the grip range. The RivNuts come in different sizes
(guess how I know). Measure the thickness of the boom wall and get the right
RivNuts. 

 

When I needed them, I had to switch between imperial and metric to find the
right size.

 

Good luck

 

Marek 

 

 

 

Sent from my Android-based can on a string

 

 

 

 Original message 

From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 

Date: 2022-10-31 12:53 (GMT-05:00) 

To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 

Cc: wolf...@erie.net   

Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair 

 

Getting ready to pull the trigger on the RivNut idea.  The stainless RivNuts
I found have a grip range of 0.027"-0.125".  I was able to measure the
thickness of the aluminum I'm going through: 1/8" (maybe a micron or two
heavy), which is the top of the range.  For those familiar with these
things, should I look for RivNuts with a slightly longer grip range, or is a
.125 top end of the range meant for 1/8" applications?  Please advise (if
you know).  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:08 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for
pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts
sticking inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Don,

Nope.  Collar floats with cabin roof.  Mast has holes below the collar for
some sort of restraint but are not used.

The upward load is borne entirely by the mast since the turning blocks are
bolted to the mast.  There is nothing attached to the collar at all.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:12 PM Don Kern via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> Isn't your collar restrained by collar brackets on either side of the
> and thru bolted to the mast just below the cabin headliner? These
> brackets transfer the load to the mast and not to cabin top.
>
> Don Kern
> Fireball, C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
>
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Be very careful about the grip range. The RivNuts come in different sizes 
(guess how I know). Measure the thickness of the boom wall and get the right 
RivNuts.

When I needed them, I had to switch between imperial and metric to find the 
right size.

Good luck

Marek



Sent from my Android-based can on a string



 Original message 
From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
Date: 2022-10-31 12:53 (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

Getting ready to pull the trigger on the RivNut idea.  The stainless RivNuts
I found have a grip range of 0.027"-0.125".  I was able to measure the
thickness of the aluminum I'm going through: 1/8" (maybe a micron or two
heavy), which is the top of the range.  For those familiar with these
things, should I look for RivNuts with a slightly longer grip range, or is a
.125 top end of the range meant for 1/8" applications?  Please advise (if
you know).  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:08 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for
pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts
sticking inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON

Stus-List Re: Blocks under forward most keel bolt material?

[paul.hood via CnC-List]

Looks like Trex to me. If so, tree was made with a Composite of hardwoods and 
plastic.  Its kind of a chippy matrrial.  I wouldn't use it if that is what it 
is. Paul Hood 
 Original message From: "steven.hickel--- via CnC-List" 
 Date: 2022-10-31  6:55 p.m.  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: steven.hic...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List Re: Blocks 
under forward most keel bolt material? Thank you for the additional 
explanations.Opening up the the fiberglass over the keel joint at all/ any 
water ingress into joint is definitely the concern, as you mentioned Joe.I 
found what seems to something like scrap fiberglass/ hdpe board around the 
marina. But, the pinkish brown color doesn't match any color of coosa board or 
King starboard or any other type of such board that comes up online. Can anyone 
identify this is? It seems heavier than wood. I added a couple pictures to the 
end of the album herehttps://photos.app.goo.gl/fnTpJJrbdAQ8htiH8The idea of 
lowering the sole in the walkway was something I've had in mind separately to 
get more headroom. A few more inches maybe. Haven't looked into the 
feasibility. Thank you!

Stus-List Re: Blocks under forward most keel bolt material?

[steven.hickel--- via CnC-List]

Thank you for the additional explanations.

Opening up the the fiberglass over the keel joint at all/ any water ingress 
into joint is definitely the concern, as you mentioned Joe.

I found what seems to something like scrap fiberglass/ hdpe board around the 
marina. But, the pinkish brown color doesn't match any color of coosa board or 
King starboard or any other type of such board that comes up online. Can anyone 
identify this is? It seems heavier than wood. I added a couple pictures to the 
end of the album here

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fnTpJJrbdAQ8htiH8

The idea of lowering the sole in the walkway was something I've had in mind 
separately to get more headroom. A few more inches maybe. Haven't looked into 
the feasibility. 

Thank you!

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Dennis,

Isn't your collar restrained by collar brackets on either side of the 
and thru bolted to the mast just below the cabin headliner? These 
brackets transfer the load to the mast and not to cabin top.


Don Kern
Fireball, C Mk2
Bristol, RI


On 10/31/2022 3:54 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

Bob,

The plate should be a collar.  Not sure what you're trying to do, but 
if you're adding halyard turning blocks, I strongly suggest you 
consider attaching the turning blocks to the mast like this:

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

I have something similar now, but possibly my blocks are too small.  They are 
from Garhauer but only have two screws in each one.  The backing plates are 
bending and I've replaced several of the screws with rivets.

I don't see your blocks or mine in their catalog so I'm probably looking in the 
wrong place.

Bob

> On 10/31/2022 3:54 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> The plate should be a collar.  Not sure what you're trying to do, but if 
> you're adding halyard turning blocks, I strongly suggest you consider 
> attaching the turning blocks to the mast like this:
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsdTZpUEFRcjZ1SEE/view?usp=drivesdk=0-Eczz38t6Fiv9c9lVdMjQ4A
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsdTZpUEFRcjZ1SEE/view?usp=drivesdk=0-Eczz38t6Fiv9c9lVdMjQ4A
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsdTZpUEFRcjZ1SEE/view?usp=drivesdk=0-Eczz38t6Fiv9c9lVdMjQ4A
> 
> With this configuration, the load is carried by the mast, not the deck.  
> If halyard blocks are attached to the collar, the collar will be pulled 
> upward.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 12:31 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one 
> attaches turning blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to 
> the mast, deck, or deck collar?  I'd prefer not to add more holes to the deck.
> > 
> > Bob Mann
> > Mystic
> > 35-1 hull #85
> > 
> > > 

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Bob,

The plate should be a collar.  Not sure what you're trying to do, but if
you're adding halyard turning blocks, I strongly suggest you consider
attaching the turning blocks to the mast like this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsdTZpUEFRcjZ1SEE/view?usp=drivesdk=0-Eczz38t6Fiv9c9lVdMjQ4A

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsdTZpUEFRcjZ1SEE/view?usp=drivesdk=0-Eczz38t6Fiv9c9lVdMjQ4A

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_sb5TfIENvsdTZpUEFRcjZ1SEE/view?usp=drivesdk=0-Eczz38t6Fiv9c9lVdMjQ4A

With this configuration, the load is carried by the mast, not the deck.  If
halyard blocks are attached to the collar, the collar will be pulled upward.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 12:31 PM Bob Mann via CnC-List 
wrote:

> What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one attaches turning
> blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to the mast,
> deck, or deck collar?  I'd prefer not to add more holes to the deck.
>
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> 35-1 hull #85
>

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[nausetbeach--- via CnC-List]

Delete from the end back to   /18/   and it will take you to the correct
page. Or go to the home page, click "Shop" and go to page 18

 

From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 3:22 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Neil Andersen 
Subject: Stus-List Re: mast blocks

 

Bad link

 

Neil Andersen, W3NEA 

Rock Hall, MD 21661

484-354-8800

  _  

From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 1:53:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Jeff Nelson mailto:jhnelso...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: mast blocks 

 

Like these:
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/page/18/?_categories=mast-plates

On 2022-10-31 14:31, Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:

What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one attaches turning
blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to the mast, deck,
or deck collar?  I'd prefer not to add more holes to the deck. 

 

Bob Mann 

Mystic 

35-1 hull #85 





-- 
Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

Bad link

Neil Andersen, W3NEA
Rock Hall, MD 21661
484-354-8800

From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 1:53:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: mast blocks

Like these:
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/page/18/?_categories=mast-plates

On 2022-10-31 14:31, Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one attaches turning 
blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to the mast, deck, or 
deck collar?  I'd prefer not to add more holes to the deck.

Bob Mann
Mystic
35-1 hull #85


--
Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

Yes, like those!  Thank you

Bob

> On 10/31/2022 1:53 PM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Like these:
> https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/page/18/?_categories=mast-plates
> 
> On 2022-10-31 14:31, Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > > What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one 
> attaches turning blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to 
> the mast, deck, or deck collar?  I'd prefer not to add more holes to the deck.
> > 
> > Bob Mann
> > Mystic
> > 35-1 hull #85
> > 
> > > 
> -- 
> Cheers,
>   Jeff Nelson
>   Muir Caileag
>   C 30 - 549
>   Armdale Y.C.
> 

Stus-List Re: 35 MK I Mainsheet and Vang

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Chuck,  What size is the jib that you are using the barberhauler rig 
on?  I can't figure how that would work on a genoa with a an LP greater 
than 135%.


Don Kern
/Fireball,/ C 35 Mk2
Bristol, RI

On 10/31/2022 2:01 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Haven't figured how to rig a preventer without going forward but I do use my 
barberhaulers in winds up to ten or fifteen knots as a preventer.  Normally we rig 
barberhaulers to pull the genoa clew out and open the slot between the jib and 
mainsail.  It's a simple rig; about twenty five feet of 5/16" line, going 
through a single block that gets clipped into the toerail at about the widest part 
of the boat with a carabiner on one end, and the other is led to a cleat in the 
cockpit.  I clip the carabiner onto the upper lifeline when not in use and when I 
need to pull the genoa out, I clip it into the sail's clew and pull the line from 
the cockpit.  When I need a preventer, the genoa is poled out and the barberhauler 
is free to be a preventer.  Simply hook the carabiner into a rope loop that lives on 
the boom fitting for the vang, and snug that down, from the cockpit.  It's very 
stable as the vang gets tensioned too, and it prevents the swing from starting if 
the wind gets on the lee sid
  e and buys me time to steer to correct before anything bad happens.

For higher winds, a proper preventer should attach to the aft end of the boom 
and go forward to the bow.

Chuck S

Stus-List Chestertown Maryland Downrigging Weekend

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

FWIW, Had a great time at Chestertown's mini tall ship festival this past 
weekend.  The event gets better each year and it was great to see the vessels 
being sailed on the river in parade fashion;  Virginia, Sultana, Kalmar Nyckel, 
Lynx, Pride of Baltimore II, Sigbee, God Speed, Maryland Dove, and a few 
others.   Check out their website if you want to learn more:

https://downrigging.org/



Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, Md

Stus-List Re: 35 MK I Mainsheet and Vang

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Haven't figured how to rig a preventer without going forward but I do use my 
barberhaulers in winds up to ten or fifteen knots as a preventer.  Normally we 
rig barberhaulers to pull the genoa clew out and open the slot between the jib 
and mainsail.  It's a simple rig; about twenty five feet of 5/16" line, going 
through a single block that gets clipped into the toerail at about the widest 
part of the boat with a carabiner on one end, and the other is led to a cleat 
in the cockpit.  I clip the carabiner onto the upper lifeline when not in use 
and when I need to pull the genoa out, I clip it into the sail's clew and pull 
the line from the cockpit.  When I need a preventer, the genoa is poled out and 
the barberhauler is free to be a preventer.  Simply hook the carabiner into a 
rope loop that lives on the boom fitting for the vang, and snug that down, from 
the cockpit.  It's very stable as the vang gets tensioned too, and it prevents 
the swing from starting if the wind gets on the lee sid
 e and buys me time to steer to correct before anything bad happens.

For higher winds, a proper preventer should attach to the aft end of the boom 
and go forward to the bow. 

Chuck S



> On 10/31/2022 11:28 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> The first test of the 4:1 mainsheet was a resounding success, it works great 
> in light/medium air. I still need to grab the 6:1, I can see this being 
> beyond my strength in heavy air. This brings up a new issue, the preventer. 
> Since what was my preventer is now my mainsheet, I did not have a preventer 
> and really hate running wing and wing without one. I rigged up a temporary 
> solution running a line from the boom to a block on the rail and back to the 
> cockpit. That worked fine and was IMHO a lot safer to deal with than 
> releasing a preventer by going on deck and getting if off the boom. I could 
> have rigged lines to both sides and had it set for either tack from the 
> cockpit.
> So has anyone rigged a preventer system like that you don't need to be up on 
> deck to use?
> Has anyone just forgotten about it and used a boom brake instead? I have 
> figure-8 stainless boom brake device I have not ever got around to rigging.
> 
> 
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina

Stus-List Re: mast blocks

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

Like these:
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/page/18/?_categories=mast-plates

On 2022-10-31 14:31, Bob Mann via CnC-List wrote:
What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one attaches 
turning blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to 
the mast, deck, or deck collar? I'd prefer not to add more holes to 
the deck.


Bob Mann
Mystic
35-1 hull #85


--
Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

Stus-List mast blocks

[Bob Mann via CnC-List]

What is the plate called at the base of the mast that one attaches turning 
blocks to?  I need to add one to my 35-1.  Does it attach to the mast, deck, or 
deck collar?  I'd prefer not to add more holes to the deck.

Bob Mann
Mystic
35-1 hull #85

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

A hand rivet tool is cheap and if you ask around I’ll bet someone will have 
one.  That said, did you try an “ez-out”.  Also not expensive and works great 
if the bolts aren’t “frozen”

Neil Andersen, W3NEA
Rock Hall, MD 21661
484-354-8800

From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:56:01 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: wolf...@erie.net 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

Also, in response to Marek: the pulling load appears to be handled by the
track.  The bolts prevent the boom vang fitting from moving back and forth.
Also, I plan to use the same length bolts, if possible.  If I need to go
slightly longer for the RivNut, so be it.   Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:08 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for
pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts
sticking inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON

Stus-List please remove from list

[commbydeans via CnC-List]

thanks!charlie deanssv verdad

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Also, in response to Marek: the pulling load appears to be handled by the
track.  The bolts prevent the boom vang fitting from moving back and forth.
Also, I plan to use the same length bolts, if possible.  If I need to go
slightly longer for the RivNut, so be it.   Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:08 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for
pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts
sticking inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on the RivNut idea.  The stainless RivNuts
I found have a grip range of 0.027"-0.125".  I was able to measure the
thickness of the aluminum I'm going through: 1/8" (maybe a micron or two
heavy), which is the top of the range.  For those familiar with these
things, should I look for RivNuts with a slightly longer grip range, or is a
.125 top end of the range meant for 1/8" applications?  Please advise (if
you know).  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 12:08 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for
pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts
sticking inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

>From what I know, the RivNuts are better for shear load (rather than for pull).

Also, be careful how long the bolts you use. You don't want the bolts sticking 
inside the boom (if you have any lines going there).

Just a few cents

Marek
1994 #122 "Legato"
Ottawa, ON



-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

For Option 3:
Could use a RivNut, which may increase the load bearing on the thin walled boom.
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boellhoff.com%2Fca-en%2Fproducts-and-services%2Fspecial-fasteners%2Fblind-rivet-nuts-rivnut.phpdata=05%7C01%7C%7C88ca27064e7f4b40805108dabb4e4202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638028242028510337%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7Csdata=oZb5RJBhWFQnbLkE%2BaeaAmf4MMFL%2FjPxZErtZ3ChsL0%3Dreserved=0
These are commonly available at hardware stores.

You don't need the special tool, you can install them with 2 wrenches. I'm not 
sure what the load capabilities are on these.  I used them to install my Vang, 
but my bolts go in horizontally through the boom, so most of the load is on the 
boom material not pulling out the threadingand of course, I'm a lot smaller 
boat.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C 30 - 549
   Armdale Y.C.

On 2022-10-31 10:48, Barry McKee via CnC-List wrote:
> Option 1 seems to be the best solution.  Boom material may not be thick 
> enough to support the helicoil solution.
>
> Good luck!!
>
> Barry McKee
> C 29 Mk I
>
>
>
>   My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
> drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
> in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
> (which I've never used before).  Thoughts?
>
>   Matt
>   C 42 Custom

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Carl Freeman via CnC-List]

 Hi Matt,
Did you consider riveting it in? They will often fit in screw holes that were 
pulled out, are easy to install, and are quite strong. If you get to a larger 
rivet size a cheap hydraulic puller from Harbor Freight will get the job done 
nicely. 

Rivnuts are nice but they are not likely to take the load that is going to be 
put on the fitting. They also have a tendency to loosen up over time causing 
them to spin in the hole. They have their place, just more suited for things 
such as panels and nonstructural items.
Good luck,
CarlC, CT



On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 09:22:57 AM EDT, Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Listers:

    I'm about to undertake a repair and could use some advice.  On an overnight 
delivery in August we were on a broad reach in large waves and the main 
unexpectedly jibed.  We promptly put on a preventer.  In the morning I found 8 
sheared off cap socket screws from the boom vang lying on the deck.

    The vang is secured with a fitting that can be moved fore and aft in a 
channel on the underside of the boom.  The channel runs the length of the boom. 
 Whoever installed the fitting originally found a suitable location for the 
vang and drilled/tapped holes to securely mount the fitting into a piece of 
aluminum that is integral to the channel inside the boom.  Inspection of the 
holes indicates that several were damaged when the cap socket screws were 
sheared.  I'm glad no one was near that boom when the main jibed.

    My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
(which I've never used before).  Thoughts?

    Matt
    C 42 Custom
  

Stus-List Re: 35 MK I Mainsheet and Vang

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The first test of the 4:1 mainsheet was a resounding success, it works great in 
light/medium air. I still need to grab the 6:1, I can see this being beyond my 
strength in heavy air. This brings up a new issue, the preventer. Since what 
was my preventer is now my mainsheet, I did not have a preventer and really 
hate running wing and wing without one. I rigged up a temporary solution 
running a line from the boom to a block on the rail and back to the cockpit. 
That worked fine and was IMHO a lot safer to deal with than releasing a 
preventer by going on deck and getting if off the boom. I could have rigged 
lines to both sides and had it set for either tack from the cockpit.
So has anyone rigged a preventer system like that you don't need to be up on 
deck to use?
Has anyone just forgotten about it and used a boom brake instead? I have 
figure-8 stainless boom brake device I have not ever got around to rigging.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

How to install rivnut without a tool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6H6wr7fJYo

--
Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

On 2022-10-31 12:04, Paul Fountain via CnC-List wrote:

I've used RivNuts on our vang after having issued with helicoils not having 
enough material to get a good hold in. I did buy the tool which made it a 
simple installation.

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: October 31, 2022 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

For Option 3:
Could use a RivNut, which may increase the load bearing on the thin walled boom.
https://www.boellhoff.com/ca-en/products-and-services/special-fasteners/blind-rivet-nuts-rivnut.php
These are commonly available at hardware stores.



--
Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

I've used RivNuts on our vang after having issued with helicoils not having 
enough material to get a good hold in. I did buy the tool which made it a 
simple installation.

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: October 31, 2022 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

For Option 3:
Could use a RivNut, which may increase the load bearing on the thin walled boom.
https://www.boellhoff.com/ca-en/products-and-services/special-fasteners/blind-rivet-nuts-rivnut.php
These are commonly available at hardware stores.

You don't need the special tool, you can install them with 2 wrenches. I'm not 
sure what the load capabilities are on these.  I used them to install my Vang, 
but my bolts go in horizontally through the boom, so most of the load is on the 
boom material not pulling out the threadingand of course, I'm a lot smaller 
boat.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C 30 - 549
   Armdale Y.C.

On 2022-10-31 10:48, Barry McKee via CnC-List wrote:
> Option 1 seems to be the best solution.  Boom material may not be thick 
> enough to support the helicoil solution.
>
> Good luck!!
>
> Barry McKee
> C 29 Mk I
>
>
>
>   My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
> drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
> in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
> (which I've never used before).  Thoughts?
>
>   Matt
>   C 42 Custom

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

I like that idea.  Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

For Option 3:
Could use a RivNut, which may increase the load bearing on the thin walled boom.
https://www.boellhoff.com/ca-en/products-and-services/special-fasteners/blind-rivet-nuts-rivnut.php
These are commonly available at hardware stores.

You don't need the special tool, you can install them with 2 wrenches. I'm not 
sure what the load capabilities are on these.  I used them to install my Vang, 
but my bolts go in horizontally through the boom, so most of the load is on the 
boom material not pulling out the threadingand of course, I'm a lot smaller 
boat.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C 30 - 549
   Armdale Y.C.

On 2022-10-31 10:48, Barry McKee via CnC-List wrote:
> Option 1 seems to be the best solution.  Boom material may not be thick 
> enough to support the helicoil solution.
>
> Good luck!!
>
> Barry McKee
> C 29 Mk I
>
>
>
>   My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
> drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
> in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
> (which I've never used before).  Thoughts?
>
>   Matt
>   C 42 Custom

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Thanks, Barry.  How thick does the material need to be for helicoil?

-Original Message-
From: Barry McKee via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 9:48 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: virb...@cogeco.ca
Subject: Stus-List Re: Vang repair

Option 1 seems to be the best solution.  Boom material may not be thick enough 
to support the helicoil solution.

Good luck!!

Barry McKee
C 29 Mk I

Stus-List Re: plotters in general

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Very good analysis, Joe (as usual).  Thanks.

 

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 10:15 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com
Subject: Stus-List plotters in general

 

Most nav programs will give you a projected course line. Some of them are 
infinite and some have controls for time or miles ahead. These are incredibly 
useful, you get your actual COG including leeway and current, not which 
direction the bow is pointed. OpenCPN also gives you range rings, I usually 
have two at ¼ and ½ miles.

This stuff is not unique to Navionics, all my programs do this one way or the 
other. I can set up routes with their various displays too and feed an 
autopilot if I had one from this century, but I kind of like staying in the 
loop more and adjusting things based on eyeballing the chart display and the 
actual environment. That isn’t to say I never use a route, but I am not 
addicted to them like a couple of people I know that basically can’t get to the 
fuel dock without one.

Why a “real plotter” is still worthwhile:

Leaving my slip Saturday the computer decided for some random reason not to 
recognize the USB>Serial port and the iPad decided not to feed UDP data to 
Aquamap. A restart fixed the iPad and a little screwing around fixed the 
laptop. Meanwhile the old and primitive plotter at the helm fired right up with 
a waterproof sunlight readable screen and I can operate it with saltwater 
soaked fingers no problem. 

Meanwhile I deleted Navionics off my devices, the company changeover made it so 
I couldn’t even get past the account screen and see old charts, I needed to set 
up a new account online. THAT would have been a nasty surprise if it was the 
only tool I had and I was offshore!

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

 

 

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Jeff Nelson via CnC-List]

For Option 3:
Could use a RivNut, which may increase the load bearing on the thin 
walled boom.

https://www.boellhoff.com/ca-en/products-and-services/special-fasteners/blind-rivet-nuts-rivnut.php
These are commonly available at hardware stores.

You don't need the special tool, you can install them with 2 wrenches.  
I'm not sure what the load capabilities
are on these.  I used them to install my Vang, but my bolts go in 
horizontally through the boom, so most of the
load is on the boom material not pulling out the threadingand of 
course, I'm a lot smaller boat.


Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

On 2022-10-31 10:48, Barry McKee via CnC-List wrote:

Option 1 seems to be the best solution.  Boom material may not be thick enough 
to support the helicoil solution.

Good luck!!

Barry McKee
C 29 Mk I



My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
(which I've never used before).  Thoughts?

Matt
C 42 Custom

Stus-List plotters in general

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Most nav programs will give you a projected course line. Some of them are 
infinite and some have controls for time or miles ahead. These are incredibly 
useful, you get your actual COG including leeway and current, not which 
direction the bow is pointed. OpenCPN also gives you range rings, I usually 
have two at ¼ and ½ miles.

This stuff is not unique to Navionics, all my programs do this one way or the 
other. I can set up routes with their various displays too and feed an 
autopilot if I had one from this century, but I kind of like staying in the 
loop more and adjusting things based on eyeballing the chart display and the 
actual environment. That isn’t to say I never use a route, but I am not 
addicted to them like a couple of people I know that basically can’t get to the 
fuel dock without one.

Why a “real plotter” is still worthwhile:

Leaving my slip Saturday the computer decided for some random reason not to 
recognize the USB>Serial port and the iPad decided not to feed UDP data to 
Aquamap. A restart fixed the iPad and a little screwing around fixed the 
laptop. Meanwhile the old and primitive plotter at the helm fired right up with 
a waterproof sunlight readable screen and I can operate it with saltwater 
soaked fingers no problem. 

Meanwhile I deleted Navionics off my devices, the company changeover made it so 
I couldn’t even get past the account screen and see old charts, I needed to set 
up a new account online. THAT would have been a nasty surprise if it was the 
only tool I had and I was offshore!

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

 

 

Stus-List Re: Blocks under forward most keel bolt material?

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

You can take the forward nut off the keel bolt, or any ONE nut for that
matter, and the keel isn't coming off. The issue is that doing it in the
water can cause water ingress, which may screw up your epoxy plans.
I would also put a hose around the bolt or similar to keep from epoxying the
threads.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina C 35 MK I
Kent Island MD USA




-Original Message-
From: Neil Gallagher via CnC-List  
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 5:35 PM
To: steven.hickel--- via CnC-List 
Cc: Neil Gallagher 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Blocks under forward most keel bolt material?

Steven,

Pretty sure you don't risk having the keel fall off without the forward
bolt, as I said I have plans that show only the six larger bolts.  I'll try
to get a scan of the large print to put on a Google drive.  Appears to me an
after the fact addition to address the smile.


My mast step had about a 3" bow in the center when I went at it, if I
tightened the shrouds it just bowed some more.  I didn't have any choice but
to do something with, really.
I used 1/2" and 3/4" fiberglass board for the vertical suppots, for
instance:
https://www.mcmaster.com/fiberglass-boards/structural-frp-fiberglass-sheets-
bars-and-strips/thickness~1-2/length~24/width~24-1/ 

Bit of a PITA to work with, found the best way to cut it is with a jig saw
using diamond grit masonry blades, but it beats laying up boards.
And actually I used a piece of the the above board under the layup of the
mast step, at the bottom it was narrow enough to fit one piece in that spans
the sump, then layed up the cloth/resin on top of it. Believe it or not, I
used 27 layers in a single layup, just to get the height, was quite a trick
in 85deg summer heat.  I'm sure you could use fewer layers.  And yes, each
layer landed on the side of the hull adjacent to the span over the sump,
just a small tab.

I think you could cut that little strip of fiberglass over the bolt, it's
not structural, just holds up the covering boards.  Not sure I follow you
about dropping the sole, do you mean in way of the step and keel bolt?

And I'll contact you off list, be interested seeing the boat if possible.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY

Stus-List Re: Vang repair

[Barry McKee via CnC-List]

Option 1 seems to be the best solution.  Boom material may not be thick enough 
to support the helicoil solution.

Good luck!!

Barry McKee
C 29 Mk I

-Original Message-
From: Matt Wolford via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: 31-Oct-22 9:22 AM
To: 'Stus-List'
Cc: wolf...@erie.net
Subject: Stus-List Vang repair

Listers:

I'm about to undertake a repair and could use some advice.  On an 
overnight delivery in August we were on a broad reach in large waves and the 
main unexpectedly jibed.  We promptly put on a preventer.  In the morning I 
found 8 sheared off cap socket screws from the boom vang lying on the deck.

The vang is secured with a fitting that can be moved fore and aft in a 
channel on the underside of the boom.  The channel runs the length of the boom. 
 Whoever installed the fitting originally found a suitable location for the 
vang and drilled/tapped holes to securely mount the fitting into a piece of 
aluminum that is integral to the channel inside the boom.  Inspection of the 
holes indicates that several were damaged when the cap socket screws were 
sheared.  I'm glad no one was near that boom when the main jibed.

My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
(which I've never used before).  Thoughts?

Matt
C 42 Custom

Stus-List Vang repair

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Listers:

I'm about to undertake a repair and could use some advice.  On an 
overnight delivery in August we were on a broad reach in large waves and the 
main unexpectedly jibed.  We promptly put on a preventer.  In the morning I 
found 8 sheared off cap socket screws from the boom vang lying on the deck.

The vang is secured with a fitting that can be moved fore and aft in a 
channel on the underside of the boom.  The channel runs the length of the boom. 
 Whoever installed the fitting originally found a suitable location for the 
vang and drilled/tapped holes to securely mount the fitting into a piece of 
aluminum that is integral to the channel inside the boom.  Inspection of the 
holes indicates that several were damaged when the cap socket screws were 
sheared.  I'm glad no one was near that boom when the main jibed.

My options are: 1) move the vang fitting and drill/tap new holes; 2) 
drill/tap the existing holes with larger bolts (which may be too large to fit 
in the vang fitting); or 3) install helicoil inserts in the existing holes 
(which I've never used before).  Thoughts?

Matt
C 42 Custom

Stus-List Re: Navionics

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

Yes, Rick, that’s it.  I can do also routes and other things as you describe in 
your second paragraph, but I find the infinite red line to be most helpful when 
heading for a destination.

 

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 8:58 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Rick Brass 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Navionics

 

I think I understand it now. The red line is always shown and infinite length, 
and it is based on boat heading adjusted by current - or more probably recent - 
set and drift. If your destination or the next turn is off the edge of the 
display, you zoom out to bring it onto the screen and steer to keep the boat 
moving to that desired point. And I presume you reduce detail, depth markers, 
etc. when you zoom out.

 

In the eastern NC area where I mostly sail, but also in Chesapeake Bay and 
along the ICW and coast going south, my target is usually in the 10 to 30 NM 
range in front of me. With the plotter and IPad I usually scroll over to the 
target, tap the screen, and then select "Go To". That puts a line on the chart 
display from my starting point to the destination. Then I can scroll back (or 
press stop scrolling on the menu) to recenter on the boat and see the nearby 
detail (depths around here are frequently 10 feet or less, and the ICW has a 
lot of twists and turns), see the boat position and heading in relation to the 
course line on the chart, and make steering and trim adjustments accordingly. 

 

I wonder if the displays would work the same on Active Captain, my IPad that I 
use on deliveries, or my laptop had I chosen the Navionics charts instead of 
Bluecharts when I bought my Garmin chart plotter?

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

Stus-List Re: Hatch rebuild - removing silicone?

[David Betz via CnC-List]

If I remember correctly, RainX is silicone based and is good for removing
silicone residues.


David Betz

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:20 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Good evening all,
> Have my Bomar hatches disassembled and have found an anodizing shop to
> refinish the cast aluminum frames.   For the anodizing to be perfect,  the
> silicone must be completely stripped from the frame.   This is proving to
> be a bit of a hassle.
> Does anyone know the magic or magic solvent that will dissolve this
> lovely/unlovely stuff?
> Thanks, Dave
> 33-2 windstar
>
-- 
Fair winds and following seas!

David Betz
Committee Chair Ship 9024
dbetzsco...@gmail.com